Shopsin's still good?

[steakrules85]

I have always wanted to try this gem but never had the opportunity due to his weird hours. Tuesday-Friday 9-3 and Saturday 9-2. Obviously, since I work I can't make it there during the week and I like to sleep in on Saturdays since I am usually dead from waking up early every other day. However, next week I have some vacation time and was planning to hit up Shopsins joint on a Tues or Wed afternoon.

Is this place still great? I love the fact that it is a hidden, hole in the wall, adventurousand eclectic menu type of place. Many have considered it an NY classic since it is tough to find places like this anymore.

Obviously I am not expecting a 5 star dining experience you would expect from a $180. I am just looking forward to some great down some comfort food cookin from Kenny. I admit the HUGE menu is definitely going to cause problems for me since I will want to try everything and most likely over order. Does Kenny cap the amount of food that a solo diner can order if he deems it too much? I have heard some people mention that in the past of him doing this.

Alas what are the best hings to order? I obviously have heard about the famous slutty cakes, mac n cheese pancakes, ebelskivers, his awesome and crazy lunch plate pairings and combinations, etc. One great thing I noticed is you can order half orders of pancakes, which would allow me to sample a few different kinds. I was thinking half slutty, half mac n cheese, and maybe something else.

So is Shopsins still great or whats the updated word on Mr. Kenny's classic NY experience?

-----
Shopsin's General Store
120 Essex St, New York, NY 10002

[kathryn]

Today's order:

1/2 order of Swine Blues pancakes
Sliders with carmelized onions
Cap'n J -- fried chicken, scrambled eggs, two mac and jack pancakes

The swine blues pancakes are bacon and blueberry, which a bit of an odd combination, but tasty. The berries do taste a bit savory in this context. I noticed they use the small wild blueberries, and give you a ton in the batter. Sliders were magnificent, as usual. Cap'n J was delicious and huge! Unfinishable. I love the way the melted cheese from the two giant macaroni and jack pancakes get crispy on the edges. Delicious with a bite of scrambled egg, fried chicken, and lots of real maple syrup (grade A, dark) and their housemade hot sauce. Mmmmm.

-----
Shopsin's General Store
120 Essex St, New York, NY 10002

[steakrules85]

It's been awhile. Got to get back to Shopsin's and the Cap'n J is one I have never tried and got my eye on.

[kathryn]

Today's order:

Mr. Mention: jerk oxtail, chorizo chili mac, cheddar scrambled eggs, toast
H18: duck blisters on my sisters, maple donuts, chili mac

Chili mac was only OK but the jerk oxtail served on the bone was fantastic. I liked the duck blisters on my sisters but I probably wouldn't get it again. The maple donuts stole the show. Hot, fluffy, gooey, sweet rings of deliciousness!

-----
Shopsin's General Store
120 Essex St, New York, NY 10002

[FoodDabbler]

Speaking purely linguistically, not gastronomically, some of these offerings seem awful. If we deduct points for bad food should we not deduct points for bad names?

[kathryn]

Tried one of the breakfast combo trays yesterday, B9 (online menu is slightly out of date when it comes to listing the items, I had coconut arepas instead of the guacamole). Enough food for two people for $26! They offered a box for me to take the leftovers home.

Three regular sliders (normally $10 for 3), 5 mac and cheese pancakes (they usually charge $10 for 3 and $18 for 6), fries (typically $5), and coconut arepas (more like a fritter, a little on the sweet side, and dense). Arepas weren't my thing, and their fries are good but a bit too browned for my preference, but the sliders and pancakes were great.

[daffyduck]

i've tried their sliders and was very unimpressed. when you had them did kenny shopsin make them himself or were they made by some chubby kid?

[kathryn]

Kenny was in the kitchen alongside two other people.

[Bone Thug n Hominy]

His son's sliders are actually better. I'm not sure why you were unimpressed.

[daffyduck]

I don't know, I had very high hopes for the sliders. but I found nothing special about it. I am a fan of having red meat on the rare side. At Shopsin's you aren't allowed to specific how you would like your burger or sliders to be served (at least you couldn't when I went). I like the sliders at Mark in the East Village (on St Marks Place) much better. Maybe I caught them on an off day but if I go to Shopsins again I much rather make more dents in their vast menu.

-----
Mark Burger
33 St Marks Pl, New York, NY 10003

[sam1]

the sliders have decent texture but are underseasoned in my opinion.

[steakrules85]

I was just at Shopsins again today and had another fine meal. I absolutely love the place. This time got half order of smores french toast, half order red velvet pancakes, side of scrambled eggs and a cherry egg cream. Everything was wonderful.

I have had their sliders and will only eat my meat rare. I specified rare when I ordered them and Zack honored my request as best he could. It's kind of hard to get sliders rare since they're so small. I will say they were the best sliders I have ever had though for real.

-----
Shopsin's General Store
120 Essex St, New York, NY 10002

[Wilfrid]

When I get a craving for coconut arepas and smores french toast I know where to go. Let's hope it never happens.

[hcbk0702]

At least Shopsin's has ironclad operating hours and predictable rules of conduct. No danger of an aneurysm on that issue.

[kathryn]

How often do you go? Do you ever get one of the variations on the sliders? The standard version is so good, I'm afraid to mess with it.

[steakrules85]

Kathryn, I have only had two varieties. Their regular sliders with grilled onions and the Treif which is brisket and egg sliders with jack and onions. Both were simply fantastic. The sliders are so good there, I always fight myself not to order them again. However, with such an extensive interesting menu I just can't bring myself to order the same thing twice.

I don't go as often as I'd like but when I am on vacation from work or if I am feeling adventurous on a Sunday I'll make the commute and stop in. I work in the city but am usually nowhere near Shopsin's so its not a viable option. And with their hours it is kind of hard for the everyday working person to stop in unless it is on a weekend.

[kathryn]

Same here, I don't go as often as I'd like either. Probably it is healthier that way!

I'm really interested in hearing from anybody who's had the fried chicken mac’n cheese sliders or the castles (3 mini-egg cheeseburgers + hatch chile, they look basically like the sliders).

[steakrules85]

The fried chicken mac and cheese are really interesting to me. I may get them the next time I go. I'm off from work this week and am even contemplating going Friday to get them lol.

Completely unrelated but all this slider talk got me craving them so I went to White Manna in Hackensack NJ today. They were terrific!!!! 3 double cheeseburgers and I was feeling it. Definitely a wonderful alternative for those who can't get to Shopsins as easy.

[daffyduck]

Sliders arent my thing so i wouldnt travel out for them, but if youre ever craving them in the East Village area, I think the sliders at Mark are better than white castle. Though i dont know if theyre suppose to better at Hackensack NJ, I'm assuming all locations have the same quality. Mark is also open til at least 1am so you don't have to take off of work.

[chowdom]

Daffy it wasn't a typo steakrules was referring to White Manna http://maps.google.com/maps/place?rlz...

[sixteenbiticon]

I had the Castles with hatch last time and, while they were good, they were nothing mindblowing. It was my first time having actual hatch chilies, and I immediately fell in love, otherwise I felt like there wasn't enough textural contrast. Extra pickles helped though.

My wife ordered the Mo'Betta and that blew my castles out of the water. I'll be visiting NYC again in a few weeks and am hellbent on trying the Mo'Jemima. I have a feeling Kenny's going to have to roll me out of there.

[kathryn]

Thanks! I love the regular sliders, too. They don't really have a ton of textural contrast either.

The real question is Mo'Betta 1 or Mo'Betta 2?

[sixteenbiticon]

At the time there was only the original version, I see now they've added the sausage variant, which might be good as well, I haven't had sausage there.

The poached eggs are what sell me on the Mo'Jemima. I'm not crazy about scrambled eggs, but whenever I see poached eggs on a menu it's hard for me not to order them. A full review will be on my blog, but our trip up there isn't until the second week in August.

[uwsister]

To me Shopsin's is about breakfast. I know they supposedly have great soups and all that, but I don't think I would ever pass up their breakfast stuff to try those. S'Mores French Toast sounds amazing to me in that late-night-craving way.

[steakrules85]

Yeah the smores french toast was really good. I mean obviously its not rocket science and something you can probably make at home. But its a fun dish and Zack really knocked it out of the park. The red velvets while good, didn't really have a strong discerning red velvet taste but nonetheless Shopsin's are griddle masters. You will always get a good pancake there.

I think i'd tend to agree about it being more of a breakfast place. I've had both breakfast and savory items and I think breakfast is more of a strong point.

[daffyduck]

i had 2 more visits and here's what pumpkin pie milk shake though not as good as the nutella mocha. fried french toast cubes, and the mo betta.
the lunch tray T1 is decent, ill list out the items since they change their menu often. lamb curry, spinach black lentils, papadum. It comes with duck quesadillas, these i really liked. my favorite things from there so far. i also tried the ebevskeviers, which i thought were just ok.

[sixteenbiticon]

Does anyone know what the PCP Mac N Cheese pancakes are all about?

I'm going there for breakfast Saturday and am narrowing down my choices. The red velvet poppy fudge filled pancakes sound pretty epic too. Thinking about going for the Castles w/Hatch for my entree.

PCP anyone?

[steakrules85]

Not sure either although I'm really curious. It says they are 2 so maybe its just 2 huge mac and cheese.

[sixteenbiticon]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Either that or whatever he adds to them to make them "PCP" is so dramatic that he deems 2 cakes a sufficient serving.

Now I'm torn between the castles w/hatch, the mac n cheese bread pudding french toast, and the santana pete.

Has anyone experienced the Moonpie meat loaf? I saw a picture, but still couldn't tell exactly what it was.

[2slices]

I'm guessing it's a drug reference, but I haven't smoked angel dust since the 90s.

[uwsister]

Gotta be, knowing Shopsin.

[AubWah]

really

[americanafan]

Oh for goodness' sake. It's called Moonpie meat loaf because it's layered like a MoonPie.

[woodleyparkhound]

I'm planning a trip to NYC over Labor Day and am dying to go to Shopsin's. I may be alone and I may be with a friend when I go there. There's a chance I could be showing up about 1:00 on Sat. wheeling a carry-on sized suitcase. Could this get me kicked out? If I don't go at this time, I'll be going on Tues. morning - also with a suitcase.

I have looked at the menu so many times. High on my list to try are sliders, nutella or fluffernutter milkshake, slutty cakes, mac and cheese pancakes with hatch (I really want to try something with hatch) and ebelskivers. I know I can't get all that - I guess I'll just have to makeup my mind on the spot!

[ChiefHDB]

Doubt it will get you kicked out, but you'd definitely have a much easier time going Tuesday morning. I've found that around 11am on weekdays is the best time to go.

[steakrules85]

I agree with CheifHDB that the best time to go i midday on a weekday. You will not get kicked out with your suitcase. The whole thing about Shopsin's is just go there, mind your p's and q's and you will have no problem.

As far as the items you listed, I highly recommend any kind of pancakes and have had the slutty and mac n cheese from your list. Also the shakes are a must. Haven't had the chance to try ebels yet but definitely have it on my list. An idea is to get a half order of one kind of pancake and a half of of another that way you can try as much as possible. You can definitely do this and get a shake without any hassle from them. Good eatingggg, and have fun!

[woodleyparkhound]

I spent the Labor Day weekend in NYC as planned. I decided to go back to DC on Tues. evening instead of Mon. for one reason only - so I could eat at Shopsin's on Tues. I arrived to find Kenny there doing inventory. His son was running around the kitchen by himself. I was standing there staring at the seemingly closed place, praying my eyes were deceiving me. Eventually Kenny asked if he could help me. He said they were closed on Tues. because the market had been closed on Mon. Sigh. So Shopsin's is STILL on my list. I could scream!

[luckiestduck]

Does anybody have favorite egg dishes from the current menu?

[ulterior epicure]

I never knew I was susceptible to vertigo until I looked at the Shopsin menu.

[steakrules85]

Ahaha so true ulterior!!!!!!!!!! CRAZY.

[ulterior epicure]

I mean, that circus needs some zoning laws. My goodness.

[steakrules85]

I agree it is probably the most daunting menu in the universe, but when you have 10,000 menu items I guess that is the only way you can get them all on one double-sided piece of paper. Plus it is just another way for the great Shopsin's to be quirky lol.

I think the funniest thing ever is when tourists come and they haven't looked at the menu ahead of time. They have no idea what they are in for and they sit at the table for a good half hour behofre deciding what they want. This has happened to be twice where I have ordered, eaten my whole meal, paid, lounged a few minutes and digest while the people next to me are pulling their hair out on what to order@!!!!

[squid kun]

And wasn't it, like, hundreds of items longer before Essex St.?

-----
Shopsin's General Store
120 Essex St, New York, NY 10002

[ulterior epicure]

Yes, I have in my hands a six-page Shopsin's menu. I have to take a break between each page lest my eyes go cross.

[kathryn]

Yes, before, when they were on Carmine St. it was 11 pages long!

[steakrules85]

That is really unbelievable. I am still amazed out how they are able to maintain such a varied menu in such a small place. It is kinda like Willy Wonka... do they have oompa loompas working with Zack back there now?

[ulterior epicure]

ELEVEN?! I wonder if some of the things on the menu are the same, just under different names. It's doubtful anyone could (or would) eat through that entire menu to find out...

[RGR]

I nominate steakrules! He's got the appetite and could stand the weight! lol

[steakrules85]

LOL-- ain't that the truth! But seriously I agree nobody could ever eat their way through that menu. Besides, they change it every few weeks or so. I have eaten there twice in the last three weeks and the menu had changed during that span.

This thread is making me crave Shopsin's now and I think I may even go for lunch tomorrow!

[ChiefHDB]

I try to keep my visits to once a month. It usually kills my whole day since I need a nap afterwards (even after walking it off). I haven't gone in July and the end of the month is fast approaching...

It really is a fool's errand to attempt the whole menu, it changes so often depending on Kenny's ingredient of the moment, that it just doesn't make any sense to even try. I usually just look for something new and interesting, there's always undiscovered gems on that menu.

[daffyduck]

kenny told me whenever he smokes up (which he says is everyday) he experiments and combines different things. whenever he likes something alot he writes it down and adds it to the menu. he claimed to me the creativity of his menu comes from the pot he smoked lol.

[ulterior epicure]

@steakrules. You really should read this: http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2002...

[steakrules85]

Very interesting article and I have read that before. I remaind fascinated by Shopsin's and as I said the other day couldn't resist going back today.

What did I order? Fried grilled cheese with peanut butter, bacon, and guacamole on the side. Sound weird? Yes of course but it was damn good. Also got a side of the fried rutabaga which I had never had and they were delicious too. Think healthier french fries lol.

[uwsister]

>Fried grilled cheese with peanut butter, bacon, and guacamole on the side.

That sounds delicious in a sort of dirty way.

[steakrules85]

As are most of Shopsin's quirky concoctions! His fun is not only delicious but very fun as well. Very unique no question about that at all.

[uwsister]

That sounds like a promising Man Vs. Food challenge.

[saeyedoc]

More like Food Buddha. "I'll have OOE". What's that? "One of everything".
Can you imagine?

[bookhound]

If Adam brought Joey Chestnut and Kobayashi along they couldn't finish off that menu.

[steakrules85]

Just wanted to update this thread because I believe Shopsin's deserves special mention. I have been back twice since and had great meals.

First time- Sliders with grilled onions, chocolate cherry shake. WOW! Chunks of cherries and chocolate super yum!

Second time I had the Boner I- Osso buco, poached eggs on polenta, and cornbread. Everything was delicious as always. The coconut shake had real bits of coconut in it, polenta was as delicious as my mom's, and the cornbread was simply the best I've ever had (they griddle it and it didn't even need butter).

Today I went back to try the Treif- Brisket sliders with jack cheese, grilled onions on unbelievable potato rolls. These are the same that they use for their burgers. Also went with the fried brussel sprouts which I have never eaten and these were some of the best "veggies" ever! Finally the morir sonando which is orange juice, lime juice, cream, ice so refreshing. If you go to Shopsin's you must get one of their incredible drink concoctions. I always tell myself going in I am going to skip a drink because it is so filling but once I start reading the selections I HAVE to order one. I love Shopsin's!

[ChiefHDB]

Some new dishes I've tried in my past few visits:

Cairo: chopped pastrami, fried egg, caramelized onions and tahini on toasted ciabbatta. Awesome sandwich, I could eat one of these for breakfast everyday.

As always nutella shake plus any other ingredient whatsoever makes for the best milkshakes I've ever had. Orange Julius was also very good.

The biryani with an egg on top and various stuff mixed in was also interesting, but really heavy.

I forget what it's called, but I had the chili cheese omelette with a pork tamale and toasted ciabatta. So good. They have ghost chiles now too, so now you can get those with the boogers (if you like heat).

[financialdistrictresident]

mmmmm, thanks for the report steakrules85.

PS Maybe I'll have to try their lunch sometime :)

[steakrules85]

You definitely should. It is great and you'll love it.

[financialdistrictresident]

Been for breakfast.

steakrules85, when are you going to eat your way through the Capital Region? A steakrules is needed:

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/6832...

No Luger's . . .

[steakrules85]

Haha wow I didn't even know that you created a thread and actually cited me. Thanks for the props and I am honored. Unfortunately, I am never in the Albany area so I cannot offer anything up on steakhouses there.

[addictedtolunch]

Answering the title- It was never "great", though it was and still is interesting and different. That's not a slam on the guy at all.

[steakrules85]

For those interested I finally made it there.... here is my short review.

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/642004

[steakrules85]

I must say the more I research and read about Kenny and the food, the more I get excited about trying it out. I have listened to some interviews, read multiple stories, and perused several of his menus. And oh my God if you think the current one is long it is nothing compared to one from 2007. WOW is all i can say. http://www.seriouseats.com/images/sho.... The place sounds so awesome.

I actually even just bought the documentary "I Like Killing Flies" as it seems really entertaining.

[kathryn]

It is quite entertaining, and watching Kenny is a trip, but I have to warn you that the camera work on the Shopsins documentary is not that steady (gave me a bit of motion sickness).

[prickle]

Had the Buddhaboy and Moonpie meatloaf a week or so ago. Both were amazing, in totally different ways. Light, moist, flavorful meatloaf topped with mole (yum!) and with a layer of cheese between two slices (get it, "Moonpie"?), then green beans and fried brussels sprouts mounded with gruyere on nicely toasted ciabatta bread. All cooked by Zach under Kenny's watchful eye; I have to say Zach's temperament was a little hilariously scary--as he angrily threw ingredients into the pan all I could think about was how all those Top Chef chefs say "you gotta cook with love" etc and here was Zach putting nothing but crazy anger in that food and MAN did it taste great :) At one point Kenny told him to "settle down". It was a blast and I'd totally go again. Coveted (silently!) my table-neighbor's pancakes.

[steakrules85]

Yeah haha thats awesome. You are not gunna find many menus like Shopsin's....so out there.

[therenowtoo]

This post is really interesting to me. I was exploring the Essex Market early Saturday morning and I noticed Shopsin's. I've been reading up on NY eats as much as possible, but I hadn't heard of it before. At 9:30 am there was no line, but by 10:30 a decent sized one had formed. I stopped and read the menu and thought about grabbing some breakfast, but opted instead for something from Russ and Daughters. I'm glad I did! I often ask questions about the menu and I would have been shocked by a rude response. I'll probably still give it a try, but now I'll go in forewarned.

Oh, and steakrules, while at the Essex Market you might consider trying to chocolate covered bacon from the chocolate shop at the other end of the market. It was an interesting combination -- not earth shattering or anything, but a unique little bite.

[steakrules85]

Chocolate covered bacon huh... sounds interesting to say the least.

[seal]

I've had the bacon. It was good, but not maple log donut with bacon good ;o)

[ConOrama]

also, and please, please, please dont take this personally, but werent you upset with Momofuku for not giving you butter?

[steakrules85]

Yeah and I knew someone would eventually mention it. And I normally would never bother with a place like this either, as RGR stated. But I don't know this is just one of those places I've always wanted to check out just to see what its like.

[Slob]

Just do an honest self-evaluation. If you're a fussy nitpicky person DON'T go to Shopsin's. If you're more easygoing and willing to let the cooks cook you their meals the way they think is best, then go because it's a great place.

[RGR]

You've got to be kidding! I do not think this is a question of whether someone is being a fussy, nitpicky eater. I'm sure I and others could find *something* on the menu that we could order "as is." However, the fact that he sees nothing wrong in treating customers in such a disgustingly mean and hateful manner is enough for me to never consider patronizing the place. Whatever his demons are, he shouldn't be foisting them on the public. Forget self-evaluation! Frankly, I think people should just wise up, not go or stop going there, and put him out of business.

[Polecat]

"I do not think this is a question of whether someone is being a fussy, nitpicky eater."

Not always, no. Sometimes it's more arbitary than that - I sense that he'll boot people, even in some instances repeat customers, based on his mood sometimes. It's not like this guy is some kind of litmus test of personal character. I think that's the way some people like to view him, but that's just not the case. He's a good, inventive, passionate cook, yeah. And it's his joint and his rules. But the idea that he's some kind of arbiter of justice is silly. One of the drawbacks to the new space is that it's so tiny, there's nowhere to run or hide from his rants. The last time I was there, he was regaling a pair of customers with completely unoriginal and purposefully hurtful comments about the French. If I didn't know this guy could cook, I'd take him for nothing more than a frustrated bag of wind. At the previous space, on Carmine, which was considerably bigger, of course, you could hear him from across the room, holding court amongst his minions, but there was some space and room to breathe. Now, you're in plain sight.

I go, order, pay my check and keep to myself, just like anywhere else. Haven't gotten kicked out yet, but it's not like that's a feather in my cap or anything. Perhaps he'll notice my cel phone vibrating one day and ban me for life.
P.

[offleash]

I think you're on to something here. I go way back with Shopsins - Morton and Bedford in the late 1970s. Kenny's unusual brand of kindness toward me - in my misspent 20s - was laudable and greatly endearing. However - Kenny is Kenny - no more/no less - I'd go to the ends of the five boroughs to defend his right do do what he does - but he is not an oracle of what is authentic or true, and based on my last couple of visits, the surly factor has gotten way over the top. Evie - and later his daughters, were softening influences. The wrestler heavy metal waiter is a PITA - and he's not even a Shopsin.

He's an instinctive cook. I don't know how he does what he does - but the food is wonderful. Nonetheless, I have no immediate plans to return.

[steakrules85]

And the funniest thing about it all is there are people out there who continually rag on my favorite restaurant (yes those of you who read my posts know very well which establishment I mean) about their "gruff" and "rude" service. However, I have never been turned down on a single request, thrown out, or given poor service at "that" establishment. Yet, it seems this is the norm at Shopsin's and people continue to frequent it regardless

But that is also another reason why I want to try it. I am one who believes in going and experiencing something first hand yourself before you make judgements. Most of the time people do not tell the WHOLE story. It cannot be that he throws someone out EVERYTIME they have a question or make a request. I am sure that Kenny does not throw someone out if they kindly ask for something nicely. If they get turned down and then make a huge scene out of it, rant rave, curse, etc. thats another story. But there are far too many people out there who don't know the "Shopsin's etiquette" for this to hold true. It is just normal for people to ask questions and make requests, especially given such an enormous and mind boggling menu with seemingly endless choices and options. And here is something very interesting that I came across while just googling Shopsin's... Nick Solares, a food blogger, has a great nad extremely funny story about how Kenny changed the bun on his burger recently. Kinda makes you think Kenny isn't all as bas as he is made out to be. Read it here....http://aht.seriouseats.com/archives/2...

While some may have had poor experiences at Shopsin's, I may not. I think I will just go and see for myself and then report back to everyone on how it goes.

[RGR]

Well, Luger's isn't exactly hurting for business?. And besides, I have never heard any reports of patrons being thrown out of the restaurant for making requests.

Hey, if people want to go to places where there's a good chance they're going to be treated in a discourteours and/or abusive manner, that's their right. I'll pass.

[steakrules85]

Some more funny stuff on Kenny....
http://www.seriouseats.com/2008/08/eat-me-life-philosophy-kenny-shopsin-memoir-cookbook.html

http://www.amazon.com/I-Like-Killing-Flies/dp/B000S0GYOI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayZYfR...

[Slob]

Well, you can certainly exercise your right not to go there. And so can others. I will continue to exercise my right to go there because I love the food, and I enjoy Kenny's banter. It's not for everyone, but that's part of what makes it so good for me.

[steakrules85]

Ok now that everyone has given their opinion for better or worse about Shopsin's policies.. let's talk strictly food... Everyone please post their top dishes!!!

[rosiemac75]

I was there on Sat. We shared a 1/2 order of the slutty cakes, the Castles and the Moe II.
I would highly recommned the mac and cheese, slutty, bacon and egg and lemon blueberry ricotta pancakes. I also recommend the Castles, the Piaf, the Blisters on My Sisters and any of the "Pete" dishes.

To answer your question about the Castles:
1) Are the egg castles basically sliders with eggs on top? Yes, the best sliders I have ever had with lots of gooey cheese and an omlete type of egg on top of the burger.
2) Would I be able to request grilled onions on them? I wouldn't try it. Again, they are the no subsitutions, no ommissions, no additions type of place. The second time I was there we had ordered and still hadn't gotten our coffee. (They don't allow you to order coffee first; it has to be at the same time as your meal.) So when I asked for our coffee, they told me to get it myself. So I did. They next time we went, the same thing happened so we went to get our coffee ourselves and they yelled at us. So in short, it's a bit like the old Seinfield Soup Nazi type of vibe. Don't ask. Just order exactly how it is on the menu and keep your mouth shut. I have seen someone ask too many questions. It isn't pretty.
3) Could I ask for them to be cooked rare? I wouldn't try it. Read above.

Also, for giggles, look at the drug test they keep in plain view on the shelf at the counter. Pretty hilarious.

[steakrules85]

How many people did you go with? Seems like a good amount of food.

Bummer on not being able to add onions or ask for it rare. DAMN!

[rosiemac75]

There were 2 of us (girls, good eaters. I had just run 12 miles...)
The first time I went, we did the same type of order: 2 savory egg dishes and one pancake. The son Zach told us it was too much food and that he would only give us a 1/2 order of pancakes. He was right. So I usually stick to this formula for 2 people.

The castles sometimes have sauteed onions on them. For whatever reason, I don't remember them being on there this weekend. And it wouldn't surprise me if it was as simple as Zach forgetting or not wanting to bother. Either way, the burgers are freaking tasty no matter what's on them.

I also recommned the Ebelskivers but sometimes Zach doesn't want to make them bc too many people order them now. They were featured on a show on the Food Network. Aaron Sanchez raved about them and now everyone orders them. But they are also damn good.

Also to note, their guacamole was out of this world. I got a dish called the Egg Chimichanga (not currently on the menu) for my first taste of their guacamole and it was brillant.

Regardless of the quirkyness and gruffness of the service, I think the food is definately worth not getting kicked out or banned.

[RGR]

steakrules,

Now, why would you want to go to a place where you can't ask that your burger be prepared to your liking, i.e., rare. It's bad enough when restaurants where you can request it don't get it right. But to know from the get-go that if you even so much as dare to make the request, you'll be out on your tush? Feh!

[planetjess]

I do really want to try it, but having read the book and posts hereabouts, I've ratcheted up my fear level to where I just don't think I'll ever do it. For me, it's not the ordering--I already know exactly what I'd have and would have no particular requests. It's the level of interaction required that concerns me--my old reliable who used to try new places with me has left town, so I'd likely be venturing in on my own (DH would hold no truck whatsoever with the "rules"). When I eat alone, I like to read a book or otherwise keep to myself, but from what I have read, this would get me booted right quick based on Kenny's social philosophy. So it looks like I'll be sticking with the cookbook...

[Slob]

Keeping to yourself would not be a problem, planetjess. In fact, he'd probably prefer it. You should try it. It's really not a war zone or anything at all. Kenny's just got a strong douchebag sensor. I've been 5 times with my girlfriend, and we've had nothing but great experiences EVERY time.

[small h]

<When I eat alone, I like to read a book or otherwise keep to myself, but from what I have read, this would get me booted right quick based on Kenny's social philosophy.>

I go alone, I read a magazine, and no one has booted me yet. I understand all the "well, I never"-ing going on in this thread - I don't even disagree with it that strongly. But at least Shopsin's has a huge menu with something for everyone. Contrast that with David Chang, whose restaurants pretty much exclude anyone who doesn't eat pig.

Also note that when you order, say, the szechuan shrimp soup, you will be asked how spicy you want it. It isn't a total dictatorship.

[rosiemac75]

Planetjess - I see people reading all the time. I think you will be fine. If you just order from the menu and don't pull a "When Harry Met Sally" moment and add things, ask for things on the side, etc, you will have no problem. The level of interaction is rather minimal (most of the time) and if Kenny starts talking to you, just go with the flow. He's just very opinionated and likes to swear a lot. Not much different than some NY'ers we know...

[financialdistrictresident]

planetjess, I went by myself. Sat at the counter and had the slutty pancakes. Not sure if Kenny was there. He might have been sitting at a table. No line (like that over rated diner nearby that's really popular for breakfast). Essex Street Market ambience. This thread reminds me its been too long and I need to go back . . .

Go have some fun, bring your sense of humor, menu is enormous.

PS speaking of pig or avoiding pig, Shopsin's tofu breakfast sausages were not very good.

[Bone Thug n Hominy]

I read there all the time. It's a breakfast/coffee habit of mine.

[2slices]

Wasn't the coffee always serve yourself, or is that just the H2O?.

[kathryn]

It's still awesome. Don't try to get too much food.

Talk to the server (usually one of his daughters) and she'll talk to steer you right.

I always hear good things about the sliders and donuts but usually end up getting pancakes (bacon and egg) and picking off other people's plates.

[steakrules85]

Do they allow for substitutions? For example one of their breakfast places looks awesome.. you get 2 each of the pancakes- smores, mac and cheese, and butterscotch. I would like to substitute the butterscotch for the slutty cakes though. Think they would object or is he gruff service a myth?

[kathryn]

The gruff service is NOT a myth, and it extends from Kenny sometimes to his son Zach. So I wouldn't try any substitutions.

[Cheese Cheesely]

i wouldn't. that pancake plate (tasty 2, iirc) is bangin though. go tuesday and save the slutty for wednesday. you can also get half-orders.

if you have a huge appetite, you should be able to do 2 entrees in one go. i've done it a few times without trouble. they used to tell me i was getting too much, but i think they're used to my orders by now.

[steakrules85]

Well it doesn't hurt to ask. The worse that can happen is they say no.

[kathryn]

Yeah but they can also kick you out, make fun of you, curse at you, and then ban you...

[steakrules85]

I'm not afraid lol.

[kathryn]

But, see, the food is good enough that I wouldn't want to be banned...

[The Professor]

LOL. New York theatre at its best.

[small h]

kathryn is correct. The worst that can happen is NOT that they say no. It's that you get no food at all. I've been on the receiving end of one mini-tirade myself (I already had my food, thankfully), and I've seen a guy booted for his "attitude." So whether you're afraid or not is sort of immaterial. You may find that you are brave and also hungry.

[steakrules85]

Wow.. I think that is sort of ridiculous. I mean would they really "ban" someone for asking for a simple substitution? And if they said no I would just accept it and then continue on with my order. I am not one to fight or have a bad attitude.

[small h]

Far be it from me to defend the practice - ridiculous is a pretty accurate categorization. I'm just saying it is definitely no myth. Brush up on your Shopsin lore here:

http://ilikekillingflies.com/

[Slob]

I actually love the fact that they ban hipster fussy idiots. I saw Kenny run some hipster off last time I was there. It's part of the charm of the place is you ask me because you won't have to sit next to any fussy buttwipes when you go there.

Kenny's more concerned with keeping the place the way he likes it and having people there that he wants there than he is with slaving to the almighty dollar. I think that's admirable.

By the way, I've never had a single issue with Kenny, the waiters or Kenny's son. They've been great to us EVERY time.

[RGR]

"Kenny's more concerned with keeping the place the way he likes it and having people there that he wants there than he is with slaving to the almighty dollar. I think that's admirable."

Well, he isn't so altruistic that he's giving the food away.

Frankly, I find it appalling that people are willing to put up with this kind of treatment. No matter how good the food may be, treating customers this way is, in my view. totally unacceptable. If you're going to pay to eat somewhere, you shouldn't have to go in fearful that if you ask a question, you're going to be tossed out on your rear. And the reason he gets away with it *is* because people let him by continuing to patronize the place.

I may be a glutton sometimes, but I'm never a glutton for this kind of punishment. There's plenty of other great food in this town, and I prefer to spend my hard-earned dollars at a restaurant where I'm treated with respect. I can live the rest of my life very nicely without ever setting food inside Shopsin's.

[steakrules85]

RGR, you and I mostly agree on all things food related and this is no exception. I don't think someone should be mistreated for asking for a simple addition, subtraction, substititon, etc. I mean like you said you are the paying customer.

However, I do really want to try Shopsin's just because I love to try new things, electic food, and classic NY and this fits all criteria.

[Miss Needle]

I totally have to agree with you. I've only been there a handful of times at their old location and have ordered several dishes that have been lauded on the boards. The food is good, but certainly not earth-shattering. While I'm a customer who generally doesn't ask for substitutions, I still have a problem with his policy. I know a lot of hounds on this board that I respect really love the place. But I would rather spend my money at a place where the guy won't throw me out and ban me if I ask if he could leave out the pickle on a dish. I don't want to go to a restaurant where I have to fear getting thrown out because I broke a "rule." I don't need a restaurant to wipe my ass. But I think a little civility is nice. Respect is a two-way street. And I don't think asking a simple question about an item on the menu or asking if a food allergy can be accommodated is a sign of disrespect.

For those of you who have been dying to try his food but are afraid they may get kicked out, his cookbook contains pretty simple recipes. For example, the pancakes are just plain frozen Aunt Jemima matter. And those famed slutty cakes are frozen Aunt Jemima batter, peanut butter, pumpkin puree and pumpkin pie spice. And the book is certainly an interesting read. It gives you a better understanding of why Kenny is the way he is.

If you have a food allergy (ie. eggs, dairy, etc.) or have special food needs (low-fat, low-salt) this is not the place for you. If you like to custom design your own menus, this is not the place for you. If you like to ask a zillion questions about menu items, this is not the place for you. In spite of everything I said, I would, however, recommend this place for certain people -- those who are curious about Shopsins, a small group that can't make up their minds as to what to eat (his menu features things from scrambled eggs to nigerian beef stew). I think it is a unique dining experience, and I can see some people really digging this. Personally, I don't find the food or experience that special where I'll put up with their behavior. Doesn't mean I won't go if somebody I know really wants to go. But I just can't see myself waking up one Sunday morning asking my husband to go to Shopsins with me. I will admit that my threshold is probably low compared to some people on these boards (I refuse to wait a couple of hours at Di Fara for pizza).

ETA: I'd also like to say that I've always been treated very well at Shopsins (did not ask for any substitutions). But I do have an issue with customers being banned and kicked out if they indeed do ask.

[Slob]

RGR, I've never had anything but great treatment from Kenny and his staff. I just like his no-nonsense style and his foul mouth. I think he's a very funny guy. And I like that he kicks out fussy people.

[kobetobiko]

I have seen it myself. Someone asked for questions and then tried to substitute something and got kicked out. They are not even going to let you continue your order.

In their eyes, asking for substitution is already a "bad" attitude.

Don't even ask. You are better off asking questions here than to ask there.

[steakrules85]

Hmmm interesting. So basically.. NO OMISSISIONS and NO SUBSTITUTIONS?

Here are my questions then for the Shopsins experts....

I really wanna try a few different kind of pancakes and the slutty and mac n cheese are definites. Maybe I can just get a half order of each.

Also, I think I wanna get the sliders since many people rave about them. Are the egg castles basically sliders with eggs on top? Would I be able to request grilled onions on them? Could I ask for them to be cooked rare?

[Slob]

Shopsin's is AWESOME. Don't be led astray by any comments to the contrary.

Be careful with over-ordering though if you're going by yourself. Kenny might shut you down and tell you "that's too much food". Get on his bad side right off the bat, and you won't enjoy a single bite of deliciousness. The last few times we've been, Kenny hasn't done the cooking. He just sits and commiserates while his son does the cooking.

I love that place, and we make a point to hit it every time we visit.

[seal]

First of all - much respect to both your foodie ambitions and your ability to realize them as witnessed first hand at Ssam.

But, even champion eater Joey Chestnut would have a hard time eating everything at Shopsins. I haven't been in a little while, but my advice is to do an exploratory trip eating a few things and then try your best to return one day if you deem it worthy.

As for what not to miss, all I can say firsthand is that the ebelskivers still call my name, and I may have to go back soon and have more.

[steakrules85]

Yeah I understand that lol.... but I know there are so many things that I am going to want to sample. I will probably try to drag along a few friends so we can try as much as possible. Other than the ebelskivers what "real" food would you suggest?

Also, look forward to seeing you in a few weeks for the Ssam seal!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[seal]

I'm definately looking forward to Ssam.

But in between now and then I will be in Barcelona, so that should be fun too ;o)

Be careful at Shopsins since they are like the cartoon version of Saturday Night Live's parody of The Billy Goat Inn. I would go once and just eat as much as you can before trying any special orders. Enjoy.

[uwsister]

I've never had any problem at Shopsin's. I've dined by myself a few times as well and again, no problem even though I'm pretty quiet. I certainly don't think the gruff service is a myth, but I don't think anyone should be scared about going there!

Off-topic, but I missed the Chowdown post about Momofuku Ssam. Anybody clue me in, please? [e-mail]