637961 Mon Jul 20 09:36:39 -0700 2009 30 36 Spirits 0 4874013 I just recently made a batch of my own tonic syrup (to combine with soda water). It makes one of the best G&Ts I've had. However, I didn't quite realize how much syrup the recipe would produce (about 1.5 fifths). I can't imagine that it will have a long enough shelf life for me to consume it. I would imagine that it would be safe for me to can a substantial amount of the syrup to prevent it from going bad. I'm not entirely convinced about the efficacy of slipping in some vodka. Does anyone have any thoughts on whether processing the syrup (which includes some citrus) would adversely damage the flavor and/or yield a sustainable shelf life? Mon Jul 20 09:36:39 -0700 2009 231834 French Foodie 1 4874443 I would use vodka and put some in the freezer. Adding vodka definitely lengthens the life orforgeat and simple syrup. I would also try freezing in bathes depending on how much you use Mon Jul 20 11:38:48 -0700 2009 4874013 13330 quazi 1 4874490 Based on my experiments with sweetened lemon juice, I suspect canning will adversely alter the flavor. I'm with quazi - freeze it in ice cube trays, then put the cubes in a zip-top bag. I've been playing with the idea of making tonic syrup; care to share your recipe? Mon Jul 20 11:50:20 -0700 2009 4874013 58743 alanbarnes 2 4874877 Thank you for your thoughts. I was leaning against the canning, but wasn't sure. I hadn't thought of the freezing method though. I may just have to go that route if I can't find some friends who might want some. As for the recipe that I used, it can be found at http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2008/how-to-make-your-own-tonic-water/ It is incredibly easy to make, although I had to do a little bit of searching for a few ingredients. I'm already looking forward to making another batch as there are a few things that I want to experiment with. Mon Jul 20 13:35:34 -0700 2009 4874490 231834 French Foodie 1 4876137 I'd definitely freeze it as well. Citrus has a tendency to oxidize pretty fast once squeezed. Mon Jul 20 20:51:08 -0700 2009 4874013 150662 white light 1 4876747 I haven't made this tonic syrup recipe yet, but in my tests and prototypes for my distillery I have worked with hundreds of syrup and liqueur recipes. So here are my thoughts based on experience working with over 130 botanicals. With the amount of citric acid in the recipe I would feel safe having the tonic syrup stored in the fridge for several months without spoilage. The recipe already calls for a boil, then simmer for 20 minutes, so hot packing in canning jars isn't going to change the flavor profile to any extent at all. Try cinchona bark that is rough chopped, but not powdered. You might have to increase the boil and simmer time to 30 minutes, but I think the original 20 should be fine for flavor/bitterness extraction. You can buy it here in 1oz, 4oz, 16oz, in both cut and powder form. http://www.pennherb.com/cgi-bin/herbstore.cgi/indexherbs I would suggest filtering before adding the sweetener, it makes it much easier. Also if you let the syrup sit in the fridge for a few days the particulates should settle out and it will be easier to filter. I'll report back in a few weeks after making a few trials in my lab at work. Tue Jul 21 06:46:30 -0700 2009 4874013 10732 JMF 2 4877256 I look forward to hearing your results JMF. Thank you for the information about the citric acid preservation. I feel a bit more at peace now. Although after a couple of days of having the tonic around, it may disappear fairly quickly. My wife tried it the other night in a G&T, which she never really liked with commericial tonic. After last night it officially became one of her favorite drinks. Plus, this tonic water is refreshing just on its own. Regarding the filtering, I passed the solution through some multi-layered cheese cloth and a strainer about 4 times. That got almost all of the sediment out of the solution (I can't see any at the bottom. However, It was not the most time effective method, especially with the first filtering. The next batch I make, I am thinking about lowering the amount of orange juice and adding a few different spices to the mix. Any thoughts on using more zest, eliminating the juices, and perhaps adding citrus tinctures to increase shelf stability and perhaps overall flavor? Tue Jul 21 09:24:00 -0700 2009 4876747 231834 French Foodie 3 4879742 I would make micro batches, let's say 1/4 of the original, and just change 1-2 items at a time. Try first making it without the juice, but doubling the zest. Sub another spice in exchange for the allspice, etc. If using powdered spice, use less than whole or cracked spice. I think with 1/4 citric acid to 1 quart of water that spoilage isn't a problem, especially when refrigerated, but I will do some research on it and also measure the pH in my lab of each batch I make. Wed Jul 22 02:44:44 -0700 2009 4877256 10732 JMF 4 4880761 I look forward to hearing your results on the pH. I was definitely planning on doing micro batches when I experiment with the recipe. I wouldn't want to have to consume a liter of nasty syrup. Shoot I almost want to find a way to semi-liquidate what I have now so that I can start trying different things. There's the cook in me coming out, somewhat to the chagrin of my wife. Wed Jul 22 09:29:14 -0700 2009 4879742 231834 French Foodie 2 4877699 Good point about the canning process not doing anything that the cooking process doesn't. What's your reasoning behind using chopped cinchona bark instead of powdered? Seems like the chopped would be easier to strain out of the final product, but is there some other benefit? I'm inclined to go that route, but want to follow the recipe closely, at least to start, so need to figure out how much chopped bark to use. Or maybe FF can tell me - what's the weight of 1/4c of quinine powder? Tue Jul 21 11:17:27 -0700 2009 4876747 58743 alanbarnes 3 4877752 While I have not used the chopped bark method, I can note that the powdered bark can be a bit of a hassle to do well with normal household items. It's doable, it just takes longer and several passes, and still may leave behind some residual powder. The weight of 1/4c quinine powder is roughly 1 oz. Tue Jul 21 11:36:03 -0700 2009 4877699 231834 French Foodie 4 4877850 Thanks. I'll order the chopped and start with an ounce per batch. Tue Jul 21 12:08:58 -0700 2009 4877752 58743 alanbarnes 3 4879732 Yup, chopped easier to filter. I found I have a pound of the powder in my distillery, but ordered the chopped so I can see what the flavor and convenience factor differences are, doing the exact same recipe. Except I will sub cane sugar rich syrup (2:1) for the agave since I don't really like agave syrup that much. Wed Jul 22 02:35:56 -0700 2009 4877699 10732 JMF 1 4887860 Exactly how much (maybe in terms of # of drinks) did you end up wit out of a batch? I looked at the recipe a while back but haven't had the time to try making it. Fri Jul 24 12:35:36 -0700 2009 4874013 10784 Scrapironchef 2 4887994 Not to speak for FF, but Morgenthaler recommends 0.75 ounces of syrup per drink. Call it 25 ml. 1.5 fifths is 1125 ml, so we're talking around 45 drinks. I'm eagerly awaiting delivery of a pound of (chopped) bark, and am working on a force-carbonation system. Homemade tonic water, here we come! Fri Jul 24 13:18:09 -0700 2009 4887860 58743 alanbarnes 2 4888072 45 drinks is about accurate. I'm slightly estimating the final syrup yield as I have one fifth filled and the rest spread amongst smaller bottles. However, I think that my estimation is fairly close. Either way, the cost per drink made with this syrup is quite low. Fri Jul 24 13:47:11 -0700 2009 4887860 231834 French Foodie 3 4888374 Actually, the cost doesn't concern me that much, I've pretty much had it with the domestic offerings. My wife likes the stronger taste of the "india" tonic available overseas and I'd like to try to make something more drinkable. I'm also going to try making some bitter lemon syrup from a recipe I found on line. I've been looking for some chincona bark here in the east bay, I'm just going to bite te bullet and order some off the web. Fri Jul 24 15:51:50 -0700 2009 4888072 10784 Scrapironchef 4 4888503 A lot of places seem to be out of stock. The homemade tonic water trend may have caught them off guard. Penn Herb (see JMF's link above) claims to have filled and shipped my order, so they apparently have it available. Price seems to be competitive, too. Fri Jul 24 16:47:55 -0700 2009 4888374 58743 alanbarnes 5 4896334 I got my order of chopped cinchona from Penn Herb yesterday. They always have fast delivery, and the only time there was ever a problem they actually called me to tell me an item would take a few days longer to deliver. Tue Jul 28 05:48:52 -0700 2009 4888503 10732 JMF 6 4896950 That's exciting to hear. Lookiong forward to hearing some experimentation findings in the near future. Tue Jul 28 09:08:12 -0700 2009 4896334 231834 French Foodie 6 4902579 JMF, have you figured out a ratio of chopped to ground to try? I too have the chopped and was going to post about the ratio yesterday (made first attempt two nights ago). I was impatient and did not want to wait a day for the syrup to rest and on the night I made it I would have sworn it was too weak in the bitter department but i had been tasting it quite a bit. Last night I tried it again and it was quite good. Honestly I started out with measured qty;s but wound up hamfisting it as the water boiled away too fast and then I realized my starting amount of 1 tbsp of bark to 2 cups of water seemed low, and well, it was not my best moment at the stove (helps if you pay attention) Anyway my loose first attempt recipe: 4 cups of water boiled down to like 2 cups when done 2 stalks of fresh lemograss chopped 4 allspice seeds crushed 3/4 cup of dried bitter orange peel fresh lime zest from 3/4 of a lime 3 tbsp of chopped bark (might be less) cooked down for 30 minutes, strained (no filtering needed with the chopped bark so far) and then added agave syrup to taste will have to do more research but so far with last nights tasting, the results are quite pleasant. Also want to go get some citrus acid too. Thu Jul 30 05:17:18 -0700 2009 4896334 176294 dhs 7 4902678 I'd like to see folks post weights, not measures for solids. It is more accurate and means we can duplicate positive efforts easier, or show how small changes make big differences. The amount in a tbsp of powdered cinchona is much more than of chopped, stalks of lemongrass vary, etc. Thu Jul 30 06:10:08 -0700 2009 4902579 10732 JMF 8 4902795 That makes sense. So who knows what one tbsp of or tsp of ground cinchona bark weighs? Thu Jul 30 06:52:49 -0700 2009 4902678 176294 dhs 9 4904946 The problem is whether the ground cinchona powder is sifted and loose, or packed. The cracked cinchona is just about impossible to measure by tsp or tbsp since it is so coarse. Thu Jul 30 17:49:09 -0700 2009 4902795 10732 JMF 8 4903149 I agree that weights are more accurate than volume measurements. But I'm not sure that a tablespoon of powdered cinchona weighs much more than one of chopped. French Foodie posted above that a quarter cup of powder weighs roughly an ounce. If your powder has a different density, please let us know. I'm tempted to put an ounce of powder in my spice grinder and see what the final volume is, but that would kind of defeat the purpose of having bought the chopped stuff, wouldn't it? Anyway, I just weighed a quarter cup of chopped bark. It came in at 28 grams give or take about 5% (my kitchen scale moves in 2g increments). In other words, roughly an ounce. This stuff may be like coffee, where fine grinding gets rid of the big interstices between the pieces, but makes small ones. Fluffs things up, in other words. Anyway, based on the information above it appears that the final volumes are comparable. I'm going to run with a 1:1 substitution ratio for the time being. Thu Jul 30 08:39:52 -0700 2009 4902678 58743 alanbarnes 9 4903651 I checked as well, and both powdered and chopped weigh the same for 1/4 cup, but for both I got 22 grams (a little less than 3/4 oz). I used a laboratory scale, and my kitchen digital, and got the same results. Thu Jul 30 11:04:57 -0700 2009 4903149 10732 JMF 10 4903657 Just weighed a quarter cup of water, which weighs 59g, and the kitchen scale said 64g. So the difference is attributable at least in part to my scale's accuracy (or lack thereof). Of course there may be other factors at play, too - amount of moisture in the bark, etc. That's what I hate about natural ingredients - they just aren't as consistent as highly-processed stuff. ;-) Thu Jul 30 11:06:13 -0700 2009 4903651 58743 alanbarnes 7 4905003 I did a batch of tonic syrup today and it came out pretty good. I wrote about it on one of my blogs. http://drinkingtheworld.com/2009/07/30/home-made-tonic-water Thu Jul 30 18:13:33 -0700 2009 4902579 10732 JMF 8 4906346 Thank you for sharing your process and results in such great detail. I was considering adding saffron to my next batch, but am considering otherwise after reading your results. Do you think adding a higher concentration of saffron may be beneficial, or is it best to just cut one's losses? Perhaps adding a saffron tincture after boiling? Fri Jul 31 09:10:39 -0700 2009 4905003 231834 French Foodie 9 4908480 I think making a tincture may work, but the cost might be prohibitive. It takes around two weeks to make a saffron tincture with pure grain spirits because saffron is only partially soluble in alcohol. It is actually more soluble in an alcohol/water mix, so 80 proof spirits may make a better or at least faster tincture than in pure spirits. It's only partially soluble in oil as well, but more so than in alcohol. That's why long, slow cooking times with oil and water are needed for dishes that use saffron. Saffron is least soluble in plain water, even with steeping or boiling. So you need to add alcohol or oil to release a large portion of the flavor/aroma. Sat Aug 01 05:55:19 -0700 2009 4906346 10732 JMF 8 4912329 I made a spin on the first batch. A bit more spice this time. http://drinkingtheworld.com/2009/08/03/home-made-tonic-syrup-batch-two Mon Aug 03 03:11:50 -0700 2009 4905003 10732 JMF