636352 Mon Jul 13 16:56:48 -0700 2009 19 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 4855286 I saw two new "Special Edition" flavors of Doritos at the grocery store today. One didn't have MSG listed in the ingredients, but I know sometimes it's hidden as something else. Can someone knowledgeable please have a looksee and tell if maybe there finally is an MSG-free flavor of Doritos?! https://www.wegmans.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10052&productId=670996&catalogId=1 Mon Jul 13 16:56:48 -0700 2009 107374 bmorecupcake 1 4855404 sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but sodium caseinate = MSG. Mon Jul 13 17:37:20 -0700 2009 4855286 103920 goodhealthgourmet 2 4855911 That '=' is not right. Sodium caseinate, or casein, is a milk protein. If cheese, especially sharp ones, give you problems, then you might want to avoid casein. Mon Jul 13 20:37:32 -0700 2009 4855404 12139 paulj 3 4856080 It list yeast....and that will act to enhance the flavor...just like MSG does...but aside from that what scares me is all those nice colors.... Mon Jul 13 21:55:01 -0700 2009 4855911 19117 Pollo 4 4856121 both yeast and sodium caseinate are near the bottom of the ingredients list. Judging from the wiki article on casein, my guess it is used here to bind the flavorings to the chips, not as a flavoring agent itself. The other milk products (multiple cheeses, cream powder, whey) probably contain more milk protein, and free glutimates, than the third to the last ingredient. Mon Jul 13 22:23:06 -0700 2009 4856080 12139 paulj 5 4856131 It's a flavor enhancer (yeast that is)...you do not need much of it to get the job done...just like salt...and it's cheap.... Mon Jul 13 22:28:43 -0700 2009 4856121 19117 Pollo 3 4856163 Sodium caseinate is alkaline hydrolyzed casein. It has been broken down into its constituent amino acids so it is no longer a protein. The amino acids are present as their sodium salts. The amino acid glutamate (glutamic acid) makes up about 20% of the amino acid composition of casein so sodium caseinate is a source of MSG. Just as "hydrolyzed protein" or "autolyzed yeast extract" are used primarily as flavor enhancers, owing to the presence of MSG, so too is sodium caseinate. While technically true that caseinate does not '=' MSG, it is true that MSG makes up a significant fraction of sodium caseinate. Mon Jul 13 23:00:46 -0700 2009 4855911 161386 kmcarr 4 4856175 So basically it a way to go around the label regulations and add some "flavor" the product...it's all legal and as long there is people willing to pay for it...what the heck....it's all good............ Mon Jul 13 23:06:32 -0700 2009 4856163 19117 Pollo 5 4856702 How does this "go around the label regulations"? They have told you exactly what is in the product. Tue Jul 14 07:02:08 -0700 2009 4856175 161386 kmcarr 6 4857438 True, but dried yeast is not used in "normal" cooking only in junk foods to enhance/add flavor.... Tue Jul 14 09:59:32 -0700 2009 4856702 19117 Pollo 7 4860934 True, but dried yeast is not used in "normal" cooking only in junk foods to enhance/add flavor.... ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Don't tell that to all the health foodies going about sprinkling "nutritional yeast" on their granola. Wed Jul 15 10:05:44 -0700 2009 4857438 161386 kmcarr 5 4857335 Are there regulations regarding direct and indirect sources of MSG? What do think this ingredient 'Artificial Flavors' includes? It in the middle of list. Tue Jul 14 09:32:11 -0700 2009 4856175 12139 paulj 4 4857326 Can you point to a good source on sodium caseinate? Wiki redirects me to casein, which has no mention of MSG or its use as a flavor enhancer. I did find some sources that identified it as a source of MSG, but most (if not all) of those had a 'all MSG is evil' slant. Harold McGee only talks about casein in the context of cheese and milk proteins, with no link to MSG (at least in the 1st ed of F&C). McGee also mentions its use as a binder, with no mention of it being used as a flavor enhancer. Tue Jul 14 09:29:32 -0700 2009 4856163 12139 paulj 5 4860984 Paul, Further research leads me to believe that the casein is not completely hydrolyzed in sodium caseinate preparations. It appears to sold as a food additive primarily to function as an emulsifier, thickener or as an easily soluble protein additive. This suggests to me that the protein is more denatured as opposed to to completely digested into its constituent amino acids. From this I would have to say that it is unclear how much free MSG is contributed by the sodium caseinate. Thanks for asking questions! Here are a couple of links: http://sci-toys.com/ingredients/casein.html http://www.casein.com/products.htm Wed Jul 15 10:19:53 -0700 2009 4857326 161386 kmcarr 6 4862456 Casein is added because it's (1) cheap and (2) enhances flavor....dairy industry has an oversupply of this stuff and tries to unload it anywhere it can.... Wed Jul 15 18:09:00 -0700 2009 4860984 19117 Pollo 3 4856837 man, i must have been really out of it last night - i didn't even see yeast listed. another source of MSG. Tue Jul 14 07:34:12 -0700 2009 4855911 103920 goodhealthgourmet 2 4856868 paulj, see kmcarr's explanation below (beat me to it)...perhaps i should have said sodium caseinate ~ MSG or "is a source of" MSG. Tue Jul 14 07:42:57 -0700 2009 4855404 103920 goodhealthgourmet 1 4861178 As my friend's dad explained, somewhat guiltily, after we found a huge drum of MSG in the back of their Chinese restaurant: "You know, boys, MSG is everywhere...even in potato chip." Wed Jul 15 11:14:54 -0700 2009 4855286 18466 a_and_w 2 5026788 A_and_w, You could tell your friend's dad that just because everyone is putting MSG in food, doesn't makeit right. If you eliminate all MSG from your diet, you will find that you will lose weight and feel better. I would also recommend stopping eating anything with Corn Syrup or High Fructose Corn Syrup in it. I had gone to a dermatologist to get medicine for my acne. No medicines were working. Four years later I stopped eating Corn Syrup and within a week I was pimple free. Unfortunately this meant that I had to stop eating the following foods: Soda, certain baked goods, Campbells Tomato Soup, and most candy. I have been cooking several different recipes without MSG or MSG laced ingredients although they traditionally are cooked with MSG. I have made soups and sauces without the presence of MSG in them. I was thinking about writing a cookbook that has recipes that are completely free of MSG. Sun Sep 13 14:27:30 -0700 2009 4861178 1109090 johnlance 3 5026849 "You could tell your friend's dad that just because everyone is putting MSG in food, doesn't makeit right. If you eliminate all MSG from your diet, you will find that you will lose weight and feel better." __________________________________________________________________ Do you have a scientific reference for that proposition? I could similarly proclaim that the earth is flat or the moon is made of green cheese, but saying it simply does not make it so ... Sun Sep 13 15:00:19 -0700 2009 5026788 11583 ipsedixit