632535 Mon Jun 29 10:10:34 -0700 2009 179 18 Manhattan 0 4815071 This is not a comment on the quality of any of these restaurants. Some on my list I personally find to be excellent and others I believe are terrible. The point here is to list restaurants where the quality falls well below the hype. The hype could come from a number of sources including hyped up on Chowhound, by newspapers, by word of mouth etc.... 1) Babbo -- The end all be all of Italian food in NYC (maybe America) falls short. Battali may be a wiz with noodles but he needs more to justify the several month wait for a good reservation. 2) Carnegie Deli/Stage Deli -- this one is more for tourists but as any local knows, just go to Katzs 3) Juniors -- maybe a Brooklyn place but they have a Manhattan location and their cheesecake is nothing special. come to new york and get a pastrami at katz's and a cheesecake at juniors is what I was told (by a carver at Katz's) but I couldn't disagree more. No graham cracker crust?!? Get that cheesecake away from me. 4) Clinton Street Baking Company -- Good pancakes, not nearly good enough to be considered the clear favorite in the city on chowhound. 5) NYC Hot Dogs (dirty water dogs) -- I think everyone on this board would agree with this. Somehow people outside of the city tend to think of New York as a great destination for a hot dog. The ubiquitous hot dog vendors throughout the city stand as a testament to that belief. Having lived in DC for years where hot dog vendors are also common (and excellent), i can't for the life of me figure out why people love the dogs in nyc. if tourists started getting chicken over rice, then they'd be on to something. Places that almost made my list but in the end live up to the hype: Doughnut Plant, Shake Shack, Momofuku Ko Honorable mention to the single most overrated dish: Uni Panini What would be in your top 5 most overrated places? Mon Jun 29 10:10:35 -0700 2009 130115 demigodh 1 4816597 Spotted Pig, I love pork more than anyone but have not walked away from here feeling like I just had a great eating experience. Shake Shack, there is so much hype no burger could live up to the expectations. Virgils, doesn't even crack the top 10 BBQ joints in NYC Pizza 33, overpriced and under cooked Del Friscos, 3 times there and my steak has never been cooked to the correct doneness. Mon Jun 29 18:31:12 -0700 2009 4815071 79984 princeofpork 2 4817805 I must disagree with Spotted Pig - was just there on Friday and it reminded me how much I love the gorgonzola burger and devils on horseback... Tue Jun 30 08:23:20 -0700 2009 4816597 22806 Crepe Suzette 3 5140283 LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Spotted Pig! Sweetbreads with Stewed Peppers one of the best things I have ever tasted! Followed that with Hampshire Pork Belly with Bean Purée & Chard We were just there this past week and savored every moment! I love restaurants that have a casual vibe, not pretentious, but server excellent food. BRAVO! Thu Oct 29 09:36:41 -0700 2009 4817805 1116727 outofphilly 1 4816608 Joe's Shanghai, Soup Dumplings. Mon Jun 29 18:35:46 -0700 2009 4815071 148845 scoopG 2 4816724 5 is a bit hard for me to come up with but I will have to agree with Joe's Shanghai. I will also put Congee Village, Ippudo, Union Square Cafe and Jaiya (Murray Hills) on my list too. Mon Jun 29 19:22:52 -0700 2009 4816608 107490 bearmi 3 4816982 I agree with Joe's Shanghai and Spotted Pig. Also Fatty Crab - but that one I am on the fence about and think I should give it another chance, hehe. Mon Jun 29 21:34:31 -0700 2009 4816724 301812 YummyInTheCity 3 4817002 Is Jaiya that well liked on this board? I thought that the general impression was that the food is decent, not great. Yummy, I'm with you on Fatty Crab. I know Chowhounds are less sweet on it than Bruni for the most part, but his awarding of two stars was overly kind IMO. It's really no more than a one. But I might be judging it too harshly for the really fourth-rate Hainan chicken rice I had recently... In my book, this dish is something divinely inspired. The version at Fatty Crab was heretically bad. Mon Jun 29 21:50:33 -0700 2009 4816724 64215 cimui 4 4817735 joe's shanghai, how did i leave that off my list. ippudo i initially included but decided against it. i agree though, it's overrated. spotted pig i've never been to but i do love me some fatty crab. Tue Jun 30 08:02:19 -0700 2009 4817002 130115 demigodh 4 4819955 I think there is a loyal following for Jaiya out there, although it's probably not the most discussed or most liked Thai restaurant on the board. I also feel that Jaiya is brought up often at other venues, probably because it has been around for a while... Tue Jun 30 19:44:14 -0700 2009 4817002 107490 bearmi 1 4816622 I'll dodge the verbal brickbats for saying this, but my last couple of visits to Katz's were nothing special. Pastrami is now just good, not life-altering- and nothing else there is worth the shlep. Mon Jun 29 18:42:43 -0700 2009 4815071 80872 addictedtolunch 2 4816793 Katz's is just good NY Deli, not life altering. the Carnegie is every bit as good, with better cheesecake. The Stage however, is just not that good. Mon Jun 29 19:52:51 -0700 2009 4816622 13463 OC Mutt 3 4816964 i think carnegie's food is miles more enjoyable than katz's...i will say that my last trip to katz's actually seemed like they were on the decline. my meat plate was small, cheap, and dried out...service was abysmal...and ive been eating here for 15 years. langer's in LA beats them all though. Mon Jun 29 21:18:23 -0700 2009 4816793 14393 sam1 3 5185145 I fail to understand how the pastrami at Carnegie can even be compared with the same at Katz's. Mon Nov 16 07:26:37 -0800 2009 4816793 222609 johnindabronx 2 4845283 Katz's would top my list too. I've had worse, but I hate to say it, I've also had much better. I find the sandwiches to be chintzy, and tough, with a predominant flavor of greasy salt water. Thu Jul 09 22:33:46 -0700 2009 4816622 145096 sugartoof 3 4845503 Where can I get better pastrami than at Katz's? Fri Jul 10 04:34:57 -0700 2009 4845283 10195 KTinNYC 3 4845577 chintzy? i can understand not liking the flavor ( i don't agree, but i understand) but chintzy? it's not a small sandwich by any means...... Fri Jul 10 05:28:03 -0700 2009 4845283 135229 thew 3 4845812 "I find the sandwiches to be chintzy" A quick Google search shows this definition of chintzy - "cheap: embarrassingly stingy." I think that word does not mean what you think it means. Fri Jul 10 06:59:18 -0700 2009 4845283 10162 Bob Martinez 4 4848284 It's posts like that which prove Katz's is numero uno on the hype meter. Feel free to consult your dictionary all you want, it's not going to erase my memory of mediocre meat plopped on top of two dinky pieces of bread. It's a chintzy offering for $15. Fri Jul 10 20:53:20 -0700 2009 4845812 145096 sugartoof 5 4848357 Please, please let me know where I can find better pastrami! Fri Jul 10 21:38:51 -0700 2009 4848284 10195 KTinNYC 6 4848420 I never claimed to have a key to a secret stash of pastrami. Any place I've had better at, I've also had worse at. To me this is like arguing over who has better shoe tongue. I've never had a sandwich at Katz's that thrilled me, felt worth the money, or the hype. I never left craving it the next day, and I don't know anyone outside the internet who loves the place, but I know it's still sacrilege to express this opinion. The best Pastrami I've had personally was in LA. (I'm glad people here have been satisfied and had better luck at Katz's though, honestly. I've always felt I was missing out on what's just seemed to be a huge myth) Fri Jul 10 22:48:31 -0700 2009 4848357 145096 sugartoof 7 4850441 Hey now, folks. Lay off a bit. I agree with sugartoof that there's an aura of untouchable greatness that surrounds certain Manhattan Institutions -- and those kinds of assumptions can only be the enemy of open discussion when it comes to food. sugartoof's point, as I take it, is to say: Set aside the boundaries. Set aside what The General Populace considers sacred. Consider food on its own merits and then decide. I really respect that RGR was able to come out and say that Sarge's serves as good (if not better, IMHO) pastrami as Katz. I agree. I also have also enjoyed the pastrami at 2nd Ave. Deli very, very much, though I understand from other posters that the quality may be uneven. (The times I've tried it, it's been wonderfully flavorful and moist.) And I humbly submit that I've helped make better pastrami with friends than what I've had at Katz's. So I agree, ultimately, with sugartoff: Katz is good... but to call it the best in NYC? Just think about the hype factor before you make any assumptions. Think about all the places you haven't tried. Keep the discussion alive. Free your mind. :) Peace, love, good eats... Sat Jul 11 23:15:12 -0700 2009 4848420 64215 cimui 8 4850923 Would you describe the sandwiches at Katz's as "chintzy?" Sun Jul 12 08:34:31 -0700 2009 4850441 10162 Bob Martinez 8 4851244 I definitely agree that people should question what they disagree with... but at the same time, give the good 'Hound a chance to back down from a stronger statement than perhaps intended without losing face, eh? It pains me to see such a pile on... [Ok, sorry to take this discussion OT. I guess it belongs more in Site Talk than anything.] Back on the subject... Bob, nope, I wouldn't call the portion size at Katz small, but I know plenty of folks think the price tag is pretty steep for a mere sandwich. Perhaps sugartoof was talking about relative value? Sun Jul 12 11:01:33 -0700 2009 4850979 64215 cimui 9 4852015 I've never heard anybody say that the amount of meat in a Katz's sandwich is anything but enormous. It's really enough for two sandwiches. To call it "chintzy" is .... eccentric. The statement "I've also had much better" begs the question "Where?" I'm not an absolutist. Maybe some other place is serving pastrami that's as good or better than Katz's. Why not share that information on the board? Cimui, I'll buy you sandwich at Katz's if the OP volunteers that information. Sun Jul 12 17:28:52 -0700 2009 4851244 10162 Bob Martinez 10 4858665 "You've said you've had better pastrami than Katz's. Well, that's good news, even if the restaurant is in another city." Agreed. Although a long-time fan of Katz's pastrami on rye, I've never felt threatened or offended at the prospect of their being something out there that is better. On the contrary: it gives me something to look forward to. sugartoof refers to arties, mendys and sarge's. i've also had some very good pastrami at arties and sarge's - never been to mendy's - but I don't put them in the same league as katz's, so i'd disagree there. then again, there's room for more than one good pastrami sandwich in manhattan, and i'd never blame a place for not being katz's. the place i hear more about than others in the whole best pastrami argument is Langer's, in LA, which is yet one more reason to pull me out to the Left Coast for a bang-up gorge and eatfest. On a previous thread, however, I've read about a place in Jersey that some enthusiasts swear by. Someone help me out here. If Katz's is, indeed, #2, I'm fine with that. Bring on #1. P. Tue Jul 14 15:16:43 -0700 2009 4858269 24813 Polecat 6 4848452 I think the pastrami at Katz's is superb, but I have also found the pastrami at Sarge's to be consistently top-notch. Different in style from Katz's, but equally delicious. Fri Jul 10 23:27:53 -0700 2009 4848357 13867 RGR 6 5185148 In NYC it's Katz's. That all. Mon Nov 16 07:27:58 -0800 2009 4848357 222609 johnindabronx 5 4849799 So, do you think there is too little pastrami on a Katz' pastrami sandwich? Or just lousy pastrami? Where do you think we can get better pastrami in Manhattan? Sat Jul 11 16:40:52 -0700 2009 4848284 10985 MMRuth 6 4850526 MMRuth, It's hard for me to imagine anyone saying there is too little pastrami on the sandwiches at Katz's. From my experiences, the sandwiches are always bulging with meat. So much so, that the flimsy bread (there's no disagreement about that) can't support the juicy meat and literally falls apart. Note also that Katz's countermen still hand-slice their pastrami, so pieces are much thicker than when a machine is used, as is the case at every other deli. At Sarge's, even though the machine slices are thinner than at Katz's, if you specifically order "fatty" pastrami, the meat remains very succulent. Also, the spicing is different from Katz's. But I think in its way, the pastrami at Sarge's is just as delicious. And the rye bread at Sarge's is more substantial, so it holds up better to the mound of juicy meat. The thing to keep in mind is that pastrami should never be ordered lean because it's the fat that provides the juiciness and flavor. Lean = shoe leather. Sun Jul 12 02:01:20 -0700 2009 4849799 13867 RGR 5 4852714 You obviously didn't slip the counterman a buck! Sun Jul 12 23:15:29 -0700 2009 4848284 10702 condiment 5 4852804 Yes, the tip leads to a slightly thicker sandwich. And it's a very good sandwich. But at that price point, where a sandwich costs, with tip, about as much as an entree in many decent restaurants, I'm over-paying for something that is about as good (or within 10% as good) elsewhere, for much less money. And it's the only thing there that's even arguably a "stand-out" at all-the rest is just O.K. if not mediocre deli. Which means we have a place here that's existing off of past glory. When a restaurant, like a boat, "coasts", it slowly sinks lower in the water. If you are about the food and not about nostalgia or hype, a visit to Katz's is now a let down. Mon Jul 13 03:39:57 -0700 2009 4848284 80872 addictedtolunch 6 4852921 The tip for a larger sandwich is also a myth. You can try it for yourself. Put your tip in the cup before once and then try it another time and tip after, the sandwich is the same size. These guys make so many sandwiches they are on auto-pilot. I've tried it myself and there is no difference when the tip is presented. Mon Jul 13 05:24:17 -0700 2009 4852804 10195 KTinNYC 7 4853294 Will they gladly give you a taste of the pastrami if you ask beforehand? Or do you need to tip them in order to get a sample. I have never been to Katz, however I have heard they are pretty gracious about giving out tasting samples before you decide what you want. Mon Jul 13 07:34:33 -0700 2009 4852921 76968 steakrules85 8 4853360 Yes, you get a sample. Trust me, the second you get to the front to the line the cutter is already getting the "sample" ready for you. These guys must make scores of sandwiches a day, they are on auto-pilot. Mon Jul 13 07:53:29 -0700 2009 4853294 10195 KTinNYC 9 4853621 Awesome.. thanks. I would like to sample the brisket and pastrami before I decide what to get. Even though I know I will most likely be going with the pastrami. Brisket tends to be too dry at these places. Mon Jul 13 08:55:26 -0700 2009 4853360 76968 steakrules85 3 4853500 "but I hate to say it, I've also had much better. " Where? Mon Jul 13 08:26:42 -0700 2009 4845283 14446 NAtiveNewYorker 4 4861834 2nd Avenue Deli. I've had an off pastrami day or two there, but mostly I've had really delicious and moist pastrami. As for Katz's I just have little reason to return based on pastrami. Wed Jul 15 14:20:19 -0700 2009 4853500 41798 windycity 1 4816633 1. Shake Shack. I'm from Chicago and Danny Meyer's shack doesn't match up in terms of dogs or custard. Don't even get me started on the burger and the fries are mealy and miserable. 2. Max Brenner 3. Carnegie Deli 4. Serendipity 3 - overpriced, overhyped, and the one time I was there they artificially inflated the wait time (plenty of open tables inside) 5. Sarabeth's - I still like the lemon ricotta pancakes though Mon Jun 29 18:47:14 -0700 2009 4815071 41798 windycity 2 4828811 Yes, definitely Sarabeth's. Sat Jul 04 05:04:11 -0700 2009 4816633 60902 CathleenH 1 4816878 1. Porchetta--dry, dull, tasteless. 2. Little Owl--cramped, one of the worst pasta dishes I've had in awhile was the gnocchi. The sauce was watery and tasteless; 3. Minetta Tavern--$26 hamburger wasn't as good a $5 burger at a good burger place, bone marrow was feeble, foie terrine wasn't very good; 4. Keste--crust turned to soup after a couple minutes, sausage looked like dog food and had NO taste; 5. Sugar Sweet Sunshine Bakery--WAY too much hype for what tasted like a Duncan Hines cupcake. Mon Jun 29 20:34:26 -0700 2009 4815071 277411 Slob 2 4816969 100% agree on porchetta...an absolutely ridiculously lame place. my other picks: 1. una pizza nepaletano - no choices, overpriced pies, no ice for my diet coke...this place must die. 2. spotted pig - the wait, the crowd and the star f$cking...the inconsistent kitchen...im not going back. 3. momofuku noodle shop - i know they barely serve ramen anymore but its so goddamn overrated, they need a new word for it. 4. babbo - besides pasta, this place just does not deliver. very disappointing. 5. little owl - the food does not warrant the constant attention. cute place but the food does not deliver. Mon Jun 29 21:23:02 -0700 2009 4816878 14393 sam1 3 4816975 sam, I couldn't believe just how bad Porchetta was after the crazy hype I read on it. I couldn't even finish my sandwich because it was so dry and devoid of taste. And I think Little Owl's secret to their hype machine is the fact that they can only fit 3 people in there at a time, so it's always full and gives the appearance of being busy. Mon Jun 29 21:29:37 -0700 2009 4816969 277411 Slob 2 4817626 I agree with you onthe bone marrow at Minetta Tav. BIG disappointment after all of the hoopla. Loved the burger, tho. Tue Jun 30 07:26:55 -0700 2009 4816878 90313 Stuartmc910 1 4817164 I will put the Carnegie Deli's corned beef sandwich against other deli in NYC. And, original poster, why do you care if people want to eat hot dogs from sidewalk carts? Tue Jun 30 01:56:41 -0700 2009 4815071 53212 Hinterlander 2 4817742 why do you care if i like another corned beef more than carnegie? it's the same thing, i just think the hot dogs are crappy and very overrated (in this case by tourists). Tue Jun 30 08:04:52 -0700 2009 4817164 130115 demigodh 3 4822430 What sense does that make? A $1 hot dog purchased on the go from a street cart isn't a dining experience as eating in a restaurant is. Wed Jul 01 15:03:21 -0700 2009 4817742 53212 Hinterlander 3 4822985 I think Sabrett makes some of the tastiest hot dogs I've ever had. Tasty with a nice natural casing snap. They are better grilled (a la Papaya King and Gray's Papaya) than boiled, but still not bad from a cart. Wed Jul 01 18:38:41 -0700 2009 4817742 100626 boccalupo 2 4828453 30 years ago, the corned beef at Carnegie Deli was really great. I have been there 3 times in the last 10 years and each time resolved never to go again. Nowadays the corned beef is just dry and there is lots of it. I don't know where to get good corned beef sandwiches anymore in Manhattan. The pastrami on club at Katz's is still great. Fri Jul 03 20:35:51 -0700 2009 4817164 61816 RichardW 1 4817310 Aquavit Tue Jun 30 05:19:36 -0700 2009 4815071 294062 lawgirl1984 1 4817507 1. Degustation - constantly and consistently fawned upon by members of this board. Unfortunately, I just wasn't wowed by anything. Thought I was perhaps missing something, but right now, I can't even remember what I had there. 2. Corner Bistro - kinda surprised it gets any hype at all. And I don't like how the fries taste like bacon. If I wanted bacon-taste, I'd order bacon. 3. Katz's pastrami - granted, I've only had it once, but my whole family left the place like, "really?? that was it?!" It's a pile of salty meat on some rye bread. Nothing to get so excited about. 4. DiFara's - don't shoot me. But it's just too parmesan-y to me and the extra drizzle of olive oil doesn't do anything for my taste buds but does to my waistline. Yes, the pizza is good. But worth the trek out to Midwood and lingering at the counter for 1.5 hours for a pie? Ehhhh.... 5. Clinton Street Baking Co. - I did love the pancakes. I love pancakes, period. Yes, they are a bit crispier on the outside and nicely thick. But is it light years beyond another competently-made pancake? No. If there wasn't a 2 hr wait at brunch, I'd pick this place over others, but that's not the case. Also, was kinda saddened to see that Bobby Flay beat them in the Throwdown. Tue Jun 30 06:43:52 -0700 2009 4815071 18288 janethepain 2 4958013 I agree with most of your comments -there is NO WAY DiFara is worth the hike to Midwood and no way Clinton street is worth the wait ( and I LOVE pancakes!)... Tue Aug 18 21:26:23 -0700 2009 4817507 1099476 crovito 3 5185162 Agreed indeed on DiFara. Ditto on Zero Otto Nove. The crust is amaturish. Mon Nov 16 07:31:40 -0800 2009 4958013 222609 johnindabronx 2 5006030 With you on DiFara's. If anyone shoots you, I'll step in front and take the bullet. Fri Sep 04 16:29:47 -0700 2009 4817507 180779 nooyawka 1 4817559 1. Shake Shack - good burgers and custard and if I'm in the neighborhood and hit them at an off time with no waiting I'll gladly buy their food. But worth more than a 10-minute wait? Are you kidding? 2. Doughnut Plant - I appreciate that they use first class ingredients and try different flavors and combinations but I'm always disappointed. The doughnuts are tough and the overwhelming sweetness overpowers any other flavor. 3. Any cupcake bakery - Sugar Sweet, Magnolia, they're all mediocre. 4. EMP - Much beloved and hyped by this board, my meal there was very good if a little uneven but in no way was it as amazing as I expected it to be based on the Chowhound raves. 5. Barbeque in general - Blue Smoke is the best of a mediocre lot but why does NYC 'que have to suck so badly? Tue Jun 30 07:02:18 -0700 2009 4815071 13639 angelhair 2 4817698 I am shocked to hear you think Bluesmoke is the tops of NYC BBQ. It doesnt even crack my top 3. Please venture up to 131st and get some Dinosaur Pulled Pork or Hill Country for the Beef ribs Tue Jun 30 07:48:49 -0700 2009 4817559 79984 princeofpork 3 4818312 I've been to Dinosaur and it was okay but certainly not memorable in any way. Is it better than Blue Smoke? Probably a toss up depending on personal preference though I do like the sides at Blue Smoke. Fette Sau is (was?) better than both of them but even that is a far cry from even average barbeque in a place like Memphis. My lament was for the overall mediocre quality of barbeque in this city in general. I haven't tried Hill Country yet so can't speak to that but given the poor quality of 'que in NYC I'm not expecting much. Tue Jun 30 10:45:23 -0700 2009 4817698 13639 angelhair 4 4818865 Please do try Hill Country, and PLEASE start with a quarter pound of each of the moist and lean brisket, as I've noticed that a umber of people love one but hate the other, while I adore both. Focus on the meat. The sides are adequate, but forgettable, but then again, the sides aren't that great at the temples in Lockhart, either. p.s. I'm pretty ecumenical in my bbq tastes, and when I'm wanting saucy, I also head to RUB (and sometimes it's the beans that push me over the edge--they are damn good). Tue Jun 30 13:19:25 -0700 2009 4818312 11483 planetjess 4 4818899 angelhair, where are you from? I've spent the last month in both Austin and Memphis and I have to say that overall the barbecue is better in both cities I don't think the best places in NYC are that far behind. I really like RUB and Dinosaur and I while don't think they are as good as the best in Memphis I think they can hold there own. BTW, the beans at RUB are better than those at either Central or Interstate but then again, who goes to barbecue for beans? Tue Jun 30 13:29:16 -0700 2009 4818312 10195 KTinNYC 5 4819868 I'm from Dallas and while the barbecue is better elsewhere in Texas, I'd take the worst places in Dallas over the best in NYC by a longshot. I haven't been to all of them (ie. Hill Country, Blue Smoke) but the sampling I have had leaves me no reason for hope. The much hyped places that I have been severely disappointed by include: RUB, Smoke Joint, Dinosaur, Fette Sau. You might enjoy the 'cue here as much as in Memphis or Austin but I just don't feel the same way. Tangent: I miss fried okra at BBQ places in this city. Not that this would effect anything I've previously stated but if anyone knows a 'cue place that has fried okra please let me know. Tue Jun 30 19:10:39 -0700 2009 4818899 130115 demigodh 6 4819965 "if anyone knows a 'cue place that has fried okra please let me know." ~~~~~~~~~ look beyond straight 'cue places. Amy Ruth's may be worth a shot... http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/272486 other places that serve it include Acme Bar & Grill, Alias, Delta Grill, and Mara's Homemade. Tue Jun 30 19:50:15 -0700 2009 4819868 103920 goodhealthgourmet 6 4821363 Why would people expect the BBQ in NYC to be anything but okish-good at best!?!? When i travel to Alabama for a football game, i m not looking for the best kinish in Birmingham(regardless of the hype a place gets). When i m working out west, regardless of how bad i want a bagel with lox with thinnly sliced red onion, i know i m not getting one(a good one). New York is NOT a real BBQ town, no ifs ands or butts(no pun)about it. Wed Jul 01 10:00:29 -0700 2009 4819868 163807 baldwinwood 7 4823199 I can't imagine that anyone would think NY is a real BBQ town - I certainly don't. I was responding to the request for overhyped restaurants. And it seems that some barbeque place is always being hyped by somebody so to me, just about any and all NYC 'que is overhyped and mediocre. Wed Jul 01 20:03:31 -0700 2009 4821363 13639 angelhair 7 4877584 fette sau, is way better than even average Tue Jul 21 10:50:23 -0700 2009 4821363 177720 Asumnuthin 3 4844864 I have always wanted to try the beef ribs there but have heard they do not have a lot of meat on them these days. Is this true or no?????????? Thu Jul 09 18:46:41 -0700 2009 4817698 76968 steakrules85 2 4817952 Agreed w/ you re: EMP and Shake Shack. Have to add Babbo to the list, as I'd describe my 2 experiences the same way that you described EMP. Good but not orgasmic. Bouley Perilla, Dovetail: Again, both are good, but they didn't live up to my inflated hopes www.thelunchbelle.com Tue Jun 30 09:02:10 -0700 2009 4817559 110996 LeahBaila 2 4818860 agree with EMP. all three my meals there were disappointingly mediocre. Tue Jun 30 13:18:12 -0700 2009 4817559 103920 goodhealthgourmet 3 4958082 Another vote for EMP. Worst meal I ever had on my numerous trip to NY this year. Tue Aug 18 22:31:27 -0700 2009 4818860 15633 fdb 2 4961251 wildwood has been much better lately! give it another try. Wed Aug 19 21:49:26 -0700 2009 4817559 43682 organicgirl 2 5138466 what flavors did you get at donut plant???? try the tres leche - it's delice Wed Oct 28 15:22:33 -0700 2009 4817559 216217 johannabanana 1 4817906 1) Pizza -It's changing rapidly with all the new places opening,but generally 99% of the slice joints are forgettable. 2) Cup Cakes - Any Girl Scout could match this garbage. 3) Co. - To associate the things they make with the word pizza is just downright deception. 4) Five Guys burgers - Greasy,burnt grease tasting and on par with white castle as the worst burgers IMO. 5) Tabla -If it wasn't a DM joint it would be out of business relying on the food alone. Tue Jun 30 08:49:59 -0700 2009 4815071 130312 xny556cip 2 4818219 5) Eleven Madison Park- went twice and both times had rude service and tiny portions that were not mind blowing 4) Spotted Pig- sure it's good but michelin-star-worthy? Nope. 3) What is with the cupcake craze! I'm with you guys on that but I'm also not a dessert person. 2) Del Posto- wildly overpriced and inconsistent food. 1) Blue Hill- This is a controversial one to list (don't hit me!) but I really had the worst service there. A smug waiter, dishes that sat in front of us far too long, etc. The Spanish mackerel was bland. I do have to disagree with Babbo on this list as I had the highest expectations and it still exceeded them. It's not just the pasta but all of the incredible innards there. Sweetbreads mmm! And focused, doting service even when packed. I also want to say that it seems like some people are just listing places that they think suck, but aren't necessarily that hyped. Is Virgil's really supposed to be great BBQ? Not as far as I know. I've never really heard that NY is supposed to have great hot dogs, maybe I've missed something. http://www.StrumErika.com Tue Jun 30 10:18:37 -0700 2009 4817906 21862 foodie4life 3 4824133 I'm going to EMP in a few days. If it isn't mediocre, I'll be sure to let you know =P Thu Jul 02 07:50:13 -0700 2009 4818219 266211 FazaMonster 2 4881296 I beg to differ about Five Guys. Their burgers are only above average but their fries are fantastic. Then again I like White Castle, so what do I know? Wed Jul 22 11:41:42 -0700 2009 4817906 130794 vinegarhill 3 4881401 Five guys burgers are horrific. Burnt to a crisp yucky! Wed Jul 22 12:08:21 -0700 2009 4881296 76968 steakrules85 1 4818686 Shake Shack -- I like it but it's not worth the huge wait. I only go when the line is on the short side. Lombardi's -- May not get the hugest love on these boards, including me. But you'd never know it from the long lines in front of the restaurant. Di Fara's -- I agree with jainthepain that it's overrated, but perhaps for different reasons. I used to live near there and went before all the hype. I thought it was great. But there's no way I'm going to trek to Midwood these days and deal with the wait and "watching" my pizza to make sure nobody swipes it from me unless I was going at an off-hour. Magnolia -- OMG! What a tourist trap! Horrible dry cupcakes. Only thing I liked there was the banana pudding. But I refuse to set foot into that place anymore. Buttercup -- While not as hyped as Magnolia, it's still pretty popular. I actually think the cupcakes are even grosser than Magnolia's. Doughnut Plant used to be on my list before I tried the cake doughnuts. The yeast ones are way too heavy and greasy. Cake are heaven! Tue Jun 30 12:25:55 -0700 2009 4815071 10763 Miss Needle 2 4958007 Agree with the Magnolia review...the cupcakes are NOT good but the banana pudding is worth the wait (NO more than 15 minute wait) Tue Aug 18 21:20:21 -0700 2009 4818686 1099476 crovito 1 4818824 I think greys papaya has some of the best dogs in the world. I love them so much. maybe its the combination with the papya juice, but they are perfect just crispy enough and just the right size. Other cities hot dogs are too damn big and taste like old ham. As far as the street vendors, they are just fine, but a bargain at $1. Plus the onion sauce is awesome, that makes the dirty water dog. The dog vendors around the tourist areas also seem to have different dirty water dogs and often charge mare than the $1 standard. So maybe you only go to time square. Tue Jun 30 13:06:01 -0700 2009 4815071 1089825 kinggofg 1 4818886 1. Nobu: was great when it opened, but now seems dated and there is a much larger selection of great Japanese out there now 2. Burger Joint at Parker Meridian: Not sure why people think these are great burgers. They are like fast food burger IMO. Like Shake Shak, they are overhyped 3. Aquavit: it can be inventive but it still has to taste good. yuck. 4. Anthos: Not sure why this got a star. just seemed like nothing special 5. Steakhouses in Manhattan - None of them live up to the high bar set by Peter Lugers (I'm really talking about the copycat ones like Wolfgangs). Tue Jun 30 13:26:19 -0700 2009 4815071 1089825 kinggofg 2 4843550 Simply a silly comment about Wolfgangs. I am a Luger's fan. It sets the bar for others to be judged. When original Wolfgang's opened it was, decent, AT BEST. I would never step foot back into the original on Park. But the Wolfgangs in Tribeca is, IMHO, is a different story and is as close to Luger's as it gets (at times better). It does not have as good bacon, but as far as steak, spinach and potatoes are concerned, why drive to Brooklyn and be forced to pay cash when you can have almost as good (if not better) in Tribeca? Have I mentioned the homemade potato chips served at the bar? OMG!!! Thu Jul 09 11:30:10 -0700 2009 4818886 13556 LVI 3 4843633 Both wolfgangs use the same meat in the same ovens. The spinach and potatoes use the same recipe. How can one be so much better than the other? Thu Jul 09 11:53:33 -0700 2009 4843550 79984 princeofpork 4 4843714 Different staff, different meat aging lockers, different approach. It is not uncommon for restaurants of the same name to differ. Just look at those who say the Great Neck Luger's is inferior to the Brooklyn location. And lastly, try having a conversation at each bar. The decibel level at the Park Ave. location is off the charts loud. Thu Jul 09 12:12:42 -0700 2009 4843633 13556 LVI 5 4844858 Completely agree about the noise at Park. The one at Park also never seats you anywhere near your reservation time. However, I have had some fantastic steak there. Thu Jul 09 18:42:50 -0700 2009 4843714 79984 princeofpork 4 5185185 It's called technique, skill and consistancy. That's what make Lugar's the standard. And pardon me for being direct but who do you know it's the same meat? Mon Nov 16 07:38:44 -0800 2009 4843633 222609 johnindabronx 3 4845904 I'll give you one reason why Brooklyn Lugers over Tribeca Wolfgang's. Because it's the original. That, for me, is reason enough. It's my little way of paying tribute to the guy who first came up with the idea. Fri Jul 10 07:34:38 -0700 2009 4843550 180779 nooyawka 4 4845917 lugar invented the steakhouse? Fri Jul 10 07:38:08 -0700 2009 4845904 135229 thew 5 4846024 All of the Lugers signatures that all of its copycats copy. Fri Jul 10 08:05:38 -0700 2009 4845917 180779 nooyawka 6 4846250 original is nice, but doesn't necessarily equate to best Fri Jul 10 09:10:21 -0700 2009 4846024 135229 thew 7 4846275 Peter Luger is unequivocally the best steakhouse in the world IMO. Fri Jul 10 09:15:20 -0700 2009 4846250 76968 steakrules85 8 4846884 The beautiful thing about CH and other sites is that it enables us all to voice our opinions. And voice we do. However I would hesitate to call any place "unequivocally the best...in the world", even elBulli. Fri Jul 10 11:40:55 -0700 2009 4846275 13556 LVI 4 4846844 If I lived in Brooklyn I may agree. And if I always had a wad of cash I may agree. But for a steak that is marginally better (can be marginally worse sometime too) I find the drive too annoying and the cash only policy out dated. This is not a statement that Lugers is inferior, by any stretch. All I am saying is Wolfgangs is a contender and I would choose it 9 times out of 10 because of the reasons I listed above. . Fri Jul 10 11:31:27 -0700 2009 4845904 13556 LVI 5 4847189 I totally agree Wolfgang's and most of the other major NYC steakhouses are extremely competitive. Each one has its defenders and detractors, for different reasons. And NYers love to engage in this debate ad infinitum b/c it's fun. I totally understand your reasons. I'm just saying that, all other things being relatively equal, I would always prefer the original. Because the 1 time I ate at Park Ave Wolfgang's, I couldn't help but compare it to Luger's. So, I figure, instead of having a whole complex during dinner, why not just go to the original. Fri Jul 10 13:02:35 -0700 2009 4846844 180779 nooyawka 2 4845900 I've recently become a fan of Burger Joint. For one thing, I like that their burgers are a modest size and they don't try to overwhelm you. Whether it's worth $7-$7.50 for one, well, only the individual can judge. I find that a burger with "the works" as they call it, really does work. $7 is really pushing it for me, so I have them sparingly. I agree with you on all of the copycat Lugers. Whatever people might say about Lugers, positive or negative, at the very least, Lugers is an original. Fri Jul 10 07:32:12 -0700 2009 4818886 180779 nooyawka 1 4819061 Spotted Pig Shake Shack every single BBQ restaurant (agree with the other poster - BBQ in this city is generally weak. Yes, I've been to Dinosaur and Hill Country, probably think it or Fette Sau is the best I've had, but neither that great. See what $5 can do for you in Alabama, Tennessee, North Carolina, etc. etc. etc. and compare it to these spots). Degustation - a phenomenon on Chowhound for some unknown reason. Peter Luger - one of the worst restaurant experiences I've had in any city. Atrocious. Babbo is so revered and talked-about on this board it kind of cannot help but be "overrated", but I would still say it's very, very good. YMMV and all that. Tue Jun 30 14:09:37 -0700 2009 4815071 12859 jonasblank 2 4819114 I've eaten a lot of BBQ in Memphis and $5 will get you nothing. Maybe I've been going to the wrong places? To be fair you can't compare food prices between the places you mentioned and NYC. Rent here is greater by at least a factor of 3. Tue Jun 30 14:29:18 -0700 2009 4819061 10195 KTinNYC 2 4819227 Won't argue with you on price (which will apply to just about any kind of restaurant in NYC compared to the places you name), but you have to compare apples to apples, and saying a Texas-style bbq place isn't "that great" followed by references to a number of states that aren't Texas and have their own different styles of bbq may say as much about what type of bbq you prefer as it does about whether Hill Country is doing a good job of it. Not quibbling with your right not to think it's that great within it's own genre, but I guess I'm just pointing out that it's never going to be Memphis or Carolina bbq, but then it's not trying to be. A fairer comparison is how it stands up to Kreuz's, Black's and Smitty's--IMO, it does so very well (grading on a curve with allowances for this being NYC, of all places) or pretty well (no curve). Kinda with you on Luger's though. Didn't find it atrocious, but it's the first restaurant that springs to mind when I do a word association for "overrated". Tue Jun 30 15:04:46 -0700 2009 4819061 11483 planetjess 3 4821373 Sorry, the BBQ remark was (by definition) heavily overgeneralized. A better way to put it might have been, it is a regional cuisine which I don't find well represented here, regardless of which specific region is in question. I think BBQ annoys me more than some other things because of the excessive hyping of it on food blogs, etc. I've also never understood why the Mexican and Tex-Mex food here doesn't seem to be as good as it should be, but that's another topic.... Wed Jul 01 10:02:29 -0700 2009 4819227 12859 jonasblank 4 4822995 "I've also never understood why the Mexican and Tex-Mex food here doesn't seem to be as good as it should be" ~~~~~~~ why "should" it be better than it is here? Wed Jul 01 18:43:11 -0700 2009 4821373 103920 goodhealthgourmet 2 4819274 jonas, You are DEAD ON with your Pete Luger call. It was the worst restaurant experience I've had ANYWHERE. I'm talking overall experience. Tue Jun 30 15:16:52 -0700 2009 4819061 277411 Slob 3 4848767 Thank you! Ugh! Luger's! They kept my party of 6 waiting over an hour past our reservation time. I would have left within 15 minutes but it was my brother-in-law's birthday and the restaurant was his choice. There was no room in their crowded bar area and we were constantly bumped around by the service staff as they walked past the maitre d's station. Were we offered anything other than a bland apology? Ha! Overrated is a compliment! You can have a far better dining experience at Dressler across the street. Their sirloin and short rib combo is lovely. Sat Jul 11 07:06:48 -0700 2009 4819274 1092733 Mmmango 4 4848867 Luger's reputation for surly service is no secret. It's a major reason we've never bothered to go there. Sat Jul 11 08:06:29 -0700 2009 4848767 13867 RGR 5 4848892 I've never experienced surly service at Luger's. Granted I only go at lunch but to me it's another urban legend. Sat Jul 11 08:21:31 -0700 2009 4848867 10195 KTinNYC 6 4848958 brusque, perhaps, but not surly Sat Jul 11 09:01:45 -0700 2009 4848892 135229 thew 6 4849356 Urban legends generally have at least a kernel of truth to them. Even if it's brusque rather than surly, that still doesn't exactly fill me with a great desire to go to Luger's. I don't need to be slobbered over, but it doesn't take all that much for service to be pleasant. The other steakhouses I've been to do manage to provide that. Sat Jul 11 12:34:09 -0700 2009 4848892 13867 RGR 6 5185193 I agree, just an urban legend. I've been to Peter Luger many times and the service has never been surly. Mon Nov 16 07:43:03 -0800 2009 4848892 222609 johnindabronx 5 4849317 Luger's service is always top notch for me. "Surly" is such a myth it is ridiculous. Sat Jul 11 12:16:55 -0700 2009 4848867 76968 steakrules85 6 4849383 agree 100% rules, if you know how to talk to the GM(Tommy) you will not have any issues with really long waits or bad service. Sat Jul 11 12:48:24 -0700 2009 4849317 163807 baldwinwood 7 4849493 Patrons should not have to "know how to talk to the GM" in order to get good service. Long waits are a whole other issue. If a restaurant takes reservations, then you should be seated promptly; if there is a no reservations policy, then you take your chances about how long the wait will be. Sat Jul 11 13:45:53 -0700 2009 4849383 13867 RGR 8 4849513 I have never meet nor to the best of my knowledge have I spoken to Tommy and the service I receive is always competent. At a restaurant like Peter Luger there isn't too much interaction with the waiters. There is one waiter with the black hair that is graying who is very friendly and all the others I consider very competent rather than brusque or surly. I'd rather have that than a waiter who introduces himself, gets down to my level acts like we are going to be friends after the meal. Sat Jul 11 13:54:40 -0700 2009 4849493 10195 KTinNYC 9 4849543 oooo, yeah, that "getting down on my level" gives me the cold toilet seat shivers. I could care less about "friendly." All I want is my food served. To me, personality in a food server is absolutely irrelevant. In fact it's a major turn off. If they can answer my question, get my order right and bring my food hot, I'm happy as a clam. Note to waiters: I tip MORE if you don't force the fake friendly routine upon me! Sat Jul 11 14:04:20 -0700 2009 4849513 13463 OC Mutt 8 4849943 Everyone on here knows how much I love Peter Luger. I have never had to wait more than 5 minutes to be seated and I have been there dozens of times. I have had several different waiters and they have all always been polite and accomodating. Will they be kissing your ass? No but they will provide you great service and will be very attentive. The best server there is Shabo! I always try to request him when I go, however last time I couldn't manage to get him. I forget the kind gentleman's name who served us last time, but he was an older gentleman with gray hair who was the nicesttttttt guy and was bending over backwards for our party of 8 (maybe Al??) and he was great! Sat Jul 11 17:43:34 -0700 2009 4849493 76968 steakrules85 6 4850856 I have always found the service at PL to enhance the meal. I never understood the "surly" myth either. Anyway that's what it is a myth. Sun Jul 12 08:00:18 -0700 2009 4849317 69187 biga290 7 4851013 Bingo. It just seems like people tend to believe everything they hear or read., Go there and experience it for yourself and then draw your own conclusions. Have there been people who have experienced bad service on occasion? I am sure they have but obviously the same can be said for any restaurant in existence. I thought Eleven Madison Park had the best service of any restaurant I have ever stepped foot in. But I am sure there are some people who have had bad experiences. The point is things like this happen sometimes for whatever reason. Nobody is perfect and there will be bad experiences along the way it is just impossible to think it will be flawless every time. However I would definitely maintain that bad service at Peter Luger is without a doubt the exception and not the rule. Sun Jul 12 09:15:03 -0700 2009 4850856 76968 steakrules85 7 4851083 To call it a "myth" is an insult to the people who have ACTUALLY experienced the rudeness/surliness first-hand. When the jackass waiter tosses the menus on the table and grunts out inaudible slop as he walks away, that qualifies as "surly", and it's not a "myth". When he flings the stupid little coins on the table at the end of the meal without so much as a "thank you" or any other words for that matter, that's not a myth. When he acts as if it's a total chore when you ask him a question that should easily answerable, then he's a douche. On top of the surly treatment, they like to keep people waiting for extended periods of time even when they have reservations. I guess they can get away with that garbage, though, because of the "myth" regarding the excellent food. Sun Jul 12 10:01:16 -0700 2009 4850856 277411 Slob 8 4851136 As I said upthread, "urban legends" tend to have some basis in fact. Thank you, Slob, for proving that surly, dismissive service at Luger's in *not* a "myth." Sun Jul 12 10:19:27 -0700 2009 4851083 13867 RGR 9 4852032 If one or two negative posts are enough to prove the point that the waiters at Luger's re surly, why aren't the larger number of positive posts equally convincing? I've read these threads for years. My guess is that either a few waiters, but not a majority, are in fact gruff ^or* some people go in looking for gruffness and manage to find it. The French have a similar reputation. I've been to Paris a dozen times and never found the French any ruder than New Yorkers but people swear that this is the case. I've learned to be suspicious of similar claims. People usually find what they're looking for. Sun Jul 12 17:36:05 -0700 2009 4851136 10162 Bob Martinez 10 4852571 All I look for is a good meal and competent, pleasant service and treatment. Any insinuation that I go out looking for a beef with waiters is a weak stab at propping up a sad dinosaur of a restaurant and deflecting from reality. One could just as easily claim that those so intent on shouting down Luger's critics are just lost in some cyclonic hype vacuum. Sun Jul 12 21:29:43 -0700 2009 4852032 277411 Slob 5 4850185 RGR, their putrid service is one of the main reasons we will never return to Luger's. I can forgive a dicey meal when the place treats me well and has a good reputation. I know there are some ups and downs with food prep. But when it comes to surly treatment from a bunch of ahole waiters there is no forgiving it. Ms. Munchie and I received the absolute worst treatment we've ever had at a restaurant when we went to Luger a few months ago. And the food certainly wasn't nearly good enough to overcome the rotten treatment. Sat Jul 11 19:48:07 -0700 2009 4848867 277411 Slob 4 5115430 I just ate at Lugers this past Wednesday and can give my 2 cents. So crowded, no where to stand, 20 minute wait with reservation. Steak was good, but definitely not the best ever. Spinach not so good. Bacon was the best I have ever had, someone please tell me where to buy it! Potatoes very nice also. Am I dying to go again, no. Cash policy does suck. Prices are high and I would expect more. Desserts were very good. Service was good also. Was a nice experience overall, but I have had better in other states. Charlie Palmer in Las Vegas is one of my favorites! Mon Oct 19 15:23:26 -0700 2009 4848767 1114200 mbargeron 1 4819277 id have to tiknk about my 5, but until then - i disagree about the hot dogs. there are a lot of different brands out there - the golden d brand, and whatever they sell inside central park, for example, are awful. the sabretts can be really good. shake shack would certainly be on my 5 - i can't stand those thin fast food style burgers,, and carnegie deli might, although i can imagine there would be 4 more overhyped places that would knock it off the top 5 i love degustation. Tue Jun 30 15:17:34 -0700 2009 4815071 135229 thew 1 4819439 Three come to mind: 1. Clinton Street Baking (pancakes were good . . .people wait in line for this? It's cult like . . .) 2. Corton (sauces were the high point, bread and desserts left alot to be desired for the price point) 3. Dovetail I hope I'm not disappointed by Aldea and Locanda Verde . . .breaking my rule of going to newbies again . . . Tue Jun 30 16:19:20 -0700 2009 4815071 73159 financialdistrictresident 2 4960613 Oh, thank you. I was actually reading this board to see if anyone would post anything about Dovetail, which was the place that came immediately to mind for me. I was visiting last month for a weekend, and my disappointment over having wasted a precious meal in that place cast a pall over much of my food memories as a whole. Bitter, yes. I know that's my own fault, but my goodness-- it was like a roller coaster, where the amuse was the highest point, and it may have gone up and down after that, but there was no denying that we were on the descent after that first tease of what we had hoped would be a (pleasantly) memorable meal to come. Wed Aug 19 17:02:08 -0700 2009 4819439 194148 bethiecLA 1 4819951 Where is Tavern on the Green in this discussion? Or is it too obvious to mention? Others I would pick include GROM and (don't shoot me) Momofuku Ssaam. I may have gotten the wrong things at Ssaam but it was far from blowing me away. I recognize that it's naturally on a different level from Ko but still... Tue Jun 30 19:42:41 -0700 2009 4815071 77038 orthorunner 2 4820113 i've been M.Saam twice and both meals were entirely forgettable...didn't dislike it, but the hype baffles me... Tue Jun 30 20:59:17 -0700 2009 4819951 11077 Simon 2 4820596 I've been to Ssam twice in the last week (various guests in town etc.) as well as a number of other times, and I've always enjoyed everything I've eaten there. I don't know about "blowing me away" but for pure porky deliciousness, it hits the spot for me every time. And just love the new BBQ sandwich. I will add that I've never really waited more than five minutes, if that, for a table, as we usually go for an early dinner or late lunch. I think because of that, generally, I'm able to ignore the so-called hype of places and just enjoy the chow. Same goes for Shake Shack and Spotted Pig. I just can't imagine waiting 45 - 2 hrs for food anywhere, and if I did so, it would surely affect my perceptions of the food and increase my expectations. Edit - I just realized, as an aside, that I will wait an hour for a pie at Di Fara. But that is the only place I'll do so. Wed Jul 01 06:14:30 -0700 2009 4819951 10985 MMRuth 3 4820777 MMRuth, That's a great point you make about a long affecting perceptions of the food. We went to Clinton Street Baking three times and really enjoyed it. Those 3 times we had virtually no wait. The 4th time we went was on a cold March morning, and we waited outside for a seat for over an hour standing in the cold. Not surprisingly, that 4th experience kind of stunk. We haven't been back since because we didn't feel it was a meal worthy of standing around and waiting for such a protracted time, especially given that people just seemed to linger in there forever after they finished their meals making the wait even more excruciating. Wed Jul 01 07:24:34 -0700 2009 4820596 277411 Slob 3 4953419 I am not from the area but when I and the hubbie go on one of our NYC urban hikes (like this weekend), we stop by and get the pork belly steamed buns. The first night after coming home, I literally dreamed about the buns - SO GOOD!!! Drool on my pillow. And, please, if there are other foodstuffs akin to these steamed buns out there in NYC that is as good or better, I would love to know for our next hike! Mon Aug 17 12:08:56 -0700 2009 4820596 1089284 msarap 2 4820839 Maybe it's just me, but I pretty much never see anyone arguing that Tavern on the Green is any good, so that's why I wouldn't put it on my list--it seems generally identified as an egregious tourist trap. Wed Jul 01 07:41:34 -0700 2009 4819951 11483 planetjess 3 4820903 TotG is a horrific mess. Not only does the food royally suck, but the prices are outrageous. The reason you don't see anyone arguing over it is b/c people stopped debating the place atleast 10-15 years ago. www.thelunchbelle.com Wed Jul 01 07:57:51 -0700 2009 4820839 110996 LeahBaila 4 4820926 Yet it is still the highest grossing restaurant in the nation.... Wed Jul 01 08:02:39 -0700 2009 4820903 10195 KTinNYC 5 4821044 That is not true. The top grossing restaurant in the USA in 2008 was TAO in Las Vegas. Del Friscos is the top in NYC Wed Jul 01 08:31:43 -0700 2009 4820926 79984 princeofpork 6 4821059 Correction, the top 5 for 2008 are as follows; Tao - Las Vegas, 66 mil Tavern on the Green, 37 mil Joes Stone Crab - Miami, 30 mil Smith and Wollensky - NYC, 28 mil Tao - NYC, 26 mil Wed Jul 01 08:34:49 -0700 2009 4821044 79984 princeofpork 7 4821107 I stand corrected. Second highest grossing restaurant in the nation. Wed Jul 01 08:49:15 -0700 2009 4821059 10195 KTinNYC 4 4844342 Just took it off my list of places to go. However, I would like to LOOK at it all lit up and maybe go for a drink or dessert in the evening; is that reasonable? Or should we literally, just look! A friend wants me to buy her a bracelet there; would I be able to without eating there? Thu Jul 09 15:31:36 -0700 2009 4820903 79652 itryalot 5 4845589 Sure, have a looksie and a non-alcoholic beverage (b/c those, too, are overpriced and crappy). You can def go w/o eating. www.thelunchbelle.com Fri Jul 10 05:33:15 -0700 2009 4844342 110996 LeahBaila 2 4820842 Tavern on The Green is not highly rated (though it may still be overrated) No one but tourists goes there and maybe the clueless recent transplant Wed Jul 01 07:42:46 -0700 2009 4819951 99909 msny98 3 4821518 TOTG also does lots of corporate functions (been to two of them) and a huge number of weddings, bar-mitzvahs, sweet sixteens, weddings, and other social receptions. They're actually more a catering hall than a restaurant - which partly accounts for the totally mediocre (at best) food, and probably for the lion's share of the grosses. Wed Jul 01 10:36:58 -0700 2009 4820842 12622 Striver 2 4821382 I think the only reason it hasn't been mentioned is I don't think anyone "rates" it highly anymore... but I agree that it is certainly one of the worst very-crowded, very-profitable restaurants I've been to (though I hear now they are having problems). I admittedly am on the Ssam bar love train, but to each their own. Wed Jul 01 10:03:58 -0700 2009 4819951 12859 jonasblank 1 4821073 Have to disagree with you about the Carnegie Deli... I'm very particular about my deli food, and I have never been disappointed by food at the Carnegie. Pricey, maybe, although I've always had plenty left over for another meal (and sometimes more). No complaints whatsoever about the food quality though. Their corned beef and pastrami (made at their wholly owned plant in NJ) is certainly as good as or better than anything out there. Wed Jul 01 08:40:37 -0700 2009 4815071 116047 The Professor 1 4821807 Park Avenue Winte: Forgettable food. Lack of service. Lack of communication between servers/hosts/kicthen. BLT Steak: Just so many better places in NYC for steak Primehouse: Even worse than BLT OTTO: Food was 'eh. Price wasn't worth the try. Del Posto: small servings, extreme prices. Wed Jul 01 12:03:18 -0700 2009 4815071 1082291 tastyeating 1 4821817 ok, i'll add mine: Babbo, Lupa, Esca, Otto, Spotted Pig...notice a theme?...*smiles* Wed Jul 01 12:06:49 -0700 2009 4815071 11077 Simon 2 4823249 Cannot agree with you on spotted pig. Top 3 burger in NYC. I've also had outstanding entrees, roasted monkfish and bone marrow stands out as does the gnudi. Sure, it's hellishly small and the wait can be dreadful but go when it's quiet and it's a fantastic food venue. IMO of course... Wed Jul 01 20:25:20 -0700 2009 4821817 60980 Scotty100 2 4849658 I strongly disagree about Lupa. We just had dinner there again the other night, and the 2 of us had 2 courses and a bottle of wine for about $125 including tip. The food is absolutely delicious every time, the wine list is fabulous, even the cheapest bottles are excellent. I don't know of anywhere else that can compare. Sat Jul 11 15:09:47 -0700 2009 4821817 126803 rrems 1 4823752 per se http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/394539 Thu Jul 02 05:27:49 -0700 2009 4815071 10173 guttergourmet 1 4844340 DEFINITELY BABBO! It was good but far from expectations...Joe's Shanghai. I gave it 2 chances. Now I don't think you could PAY me to eat there. Burger joint - just not worth the wait for those miserable fries, that measly burger OR that price tag. Jean Gorges...Like babbo i thought it was good but definitely not great and i'm not rushing to go back. and Cookshop...one of the least enjoyable brunch meals for me. Thu Jul 09 15:31:06 -0700 2009 4815071 93566 kelea 1 4844896 Definitely Del Posto and Burger Joint. Del Posto should be totally ashamed of their portion sizes for the prices they charge. And Burger Joint gets so much hype but their burger is nothing special at all. Just a regular burger on a crappy bun. I made a better burger in my backyard last night for dinner. As for Babbo I loved it and I don't know why so many people have decided to hate it on this thread. Same goes for EMP= Probably one of the best meals of my entire life! Thu Jul 09 18:53:58 -0700 2009 4815071 76968 steakrules85 2 4845784 Some of the seating is very uncomfortable; they push certain dishes (I realize that most places do this) even when the table indicates that it is not interested (not everyone finds offal enticing) and more than once, a wine on the list chosen was reported not to be available (though a more expensive substitute was readily proffered.) Does this make it over-rated? I'm not playing that game, since most people here are just reacting to their several (or singular) encounters...let's just say that I understand their game, but now that I have experienced it, I prefer to go elsewhere. (Oh, and Sicilian Life Guard Calamari tasted more to me like Life Boy Soap.) Fri Jul 10 06:50:50 -0700 2009 4844896 204204 penthouse pup 3 4845851 You know what they say to each his own. Fri Jul 10 07:13:27 -0700 2009 4845784 76968 steakrules85 1 4845850 I partly agree and partly disagree with #5 NYC dirty water dogs. I used to love them. They had to be from a street vendor, and they used to be Sabrett's. I found them to be tasty and to have snappy skin. Combined with ketchup and the sweet onions...mmm...that used to be one of the most satisfying fast-food meals for me. Then over the years, I sensed a change. The hot dogs were no longer so good. I can't explain why, but I've definitely discerned a decline over the last 10 years. Fri Jul 10 07:13:24 -0700 2009 4815071 180779 nooyawka 1 4849667 1) Babbo, hands down. I think it's flat-out awful from soup to nuts. It's become the new Il Mulino (B&T like it because they're supposed to). 2) Luger - Lame. Craftsteak, Wolfgangs are both better. 3) Jean-Georges - Change the menu already. 4) Daniel - Boring. 5) Le Bernandin - Fish on a plate. Sat Jul 11 15:12:26 -0700 2009 4815071 74108 CocHoliday 2 4855000 daniel, jean-georges, peter luger, le bernardin, and babbo. wow. these were the top 5 restaurants in nyc for the past 10-15 years minus per se. mind telling us what restaurants you DO like? Mon Jul 13 15:21:46 -0700 2009 4849667 10920 halo 3 4855067 i haven't tried the other three but jean-gorges and babbo were both disappointing for me. it must be all the hype build up in my head and the food just couldn't live up to it Mon Jul 13 15:38:12 -0700 2009 4855000 93566 kelea 4 4856517 I agree: Babbo and Jean Georges were big disappointments. Tue Jul 14 05:52:56 -0700 2009 4855067 103013 beaulieu 1 4857300 Sweets: Magnolia - the lines are shorter these days so I think it's catching on that there are better spots for cupcakes now. DIMSUM: Dim Sum Go Go - true, the food is hot, and the food is "good" but not at the level of praise that this place gets. "Brasseries": Pastis/Balthazar - certain dishes are good, but the ambiance is greater than the food Steak: Del Frisco's - never again, just too many choices Japanese: Haven't really had bad experiences at the top japanese restaurants, but if there was one to put on the list it would be the Yama chain even though it's not really considered a top spot Tue Jul 14 09:23:08 -0700 2009 4815071 226304 quon 2 4876345 I agree with Babbo's. I could not wait to try his dishes; however I was quickly disappointed. The only thing truly savory to my palate were the desserts. Too bad the pastries are made by a different chef! Although, I disagree with the Carnegie Deli being listed...the pastrami has always been top notch since my first visit as a child. I always loved the green tomatos, which have remained the same in taste. Mon Jul 20 23:10:52 -0700 2009 4857300 281527 LimonZang 1 4877468 DBGB Tue Jul 21 10:18:17 -0700 2009 4815071 10173 guttergourmet 1 4877617 Korhogo126 Perilla Tribeca Grill One if by Land, Two if by Sea Aquavit Dining Room The Modern - Bar Room Tue Jul 21 10:58:55 -0700 2009 4815071 177720 Asumnuthin 1 4882214 Spotted Pig. Wed Jul 22 16:23:19 -0700 2009 4815071 110080 VAfoodie 1 4953223 It's funny..NO ONE on this topic has mentioned the 2 most overrated restaurants in NYC..both of which give you NO BANG for the buck. 1- Momofuku KO- For $100, tiny portions, no atmosphere, stuck up chefs. 2-Morimoto Sushi Bar- Beautiful restaurant, mediocre (at best) sushi, friendly service, totally overpriced. Mon Aug 17 11:05:43 -0700 2009 4815071 260185 sockster 2 4959672 THANK YOU! Yes, the entire Momofuku empire actually has never ceased to disappoint. I always leave wondering how my tastebuds are that different from, oh, everyone else's in the entire city. And right on with Morimoto too. Food was a major snooze. The OP definitely has it right on Clinton Street. Even I can make better biscuits than that, and I am about as inept in the kitchen as they come. Porchetta, Little Owl (how can you ruin gnocci??? ask them!), Una Pizza... absolutely agree with you, Slob and Sam! I love Babbo and Shake Shack though. Call me crazy. I will wait in that line for 45 minutes, no problem. Wed Aug 19 12:02:13 -0700 2009 4953223 221979 _emilie_ 3 4960097 see - that's why tastes are different. i find shake shake totally dull, and love momofuku ssam Wed Aug 19 13:55:51 -0700 2009 4959672 135229 thew 3 4961190 Love Babbo too. For real porchetta, there's this little nothing of a store front in Rome...father and son...third generation, right near the train station....it doesn't get much better than that..... And one more word on KO, on egullet, there about 300 pages of KO lovers. When I posted my negative review...I got SO lambasted, it was amazing....what a waste of a meal... Wed Aug 19 21:09:24 -0700 2009 4959672 260185 sockster 1 4957999 it is rare for me to write such negative reviews but here goes a first....I just got back home from a meal at LOCANDA VERDE.....I had been looking forward to it since it opened . Tonight I brought two of my friends and father there (he is a restaurant owner). The service was fine but most of the pasta dishes were very bland- I was actually embarrassed when he tasted his spaghetti al pomodoro ....there are SO many great Italian restaurants in the city and the decrease of Ago prices simply will not cut it. At nearly 20$ a plate, NYers rightly expect the best pasta this city has to offer. Tue Aug 18 21:16:18 -0700 2009 4815071 1099476 crovito 1 4961187 can't believe people would even discuss katz's as a viable option. let the dead bury the dead. 1) Luger's - erratic and obnoxious. plus, the meat is too old-school for me. i like to know a little more about my red meat before i eat a whole platter of it. 2) Motorino - Boy, was that one lame pizza. Doughy, puffy. Naan with good tomato sauce and cheese. For real. I want to be reimbursed for the year it took me to get to East Jesus Nowhere to try it. Nice people, but very over-confident. The good new-generation pizzas are actually, I find, the least hyped ones. 3) Momofukuniverse - I love the ingredients and i like the preps but David Chang is not the new Food Christ; I think he is fully aware of this and laughing at you right now. Fried chicken suppers? Fun, but come on, lets keep it real. 4) Blue Hill - I can also go to the greenmarket and pull a great dinner together. It's lovely. How much genius is there at work here? 5) All NYC BBQ - I've no idea why anyone expects NYC to suddenly be a great BBQ town after years of having nothing to speak of. Enjoy it for what it is, and when it's great, be glad. but why waste a lot of your money in this category...save it for when you're in Texas (my favorite regional style, and no, Hill Country doesn't work for me). Besides the pulled pork at dinosaur, truly the best thing I've had at an Manhattan BBQ resto (and I've been to most you could name) were the chili cheese fries at Virgil's. Wed Aug 19 21:07:06 -0700 2009 4815071 46213 biryaniboy 2 4961259 1) Spotted Pig -- have been three times and each time there was a tragic flaw in the food; twice too salty to eat; 1 overcooked protein; every time bad attitude 2) Five Points brunch -- really?!?! it's just baked eggs with a lot of butter, people 3) Union Sq Cafe -- not creative, not interesting spices or ingredients, not great ambiance or presentation 4) Nobu 5) Felidia 6) Waverly Inn (for those who make the mistake of thinking this place exists to serve food) Wed Aug 19 21:55:19 -0700 2009 4961187 43682 organicgirl 3 5006351 Whoa, I love Felidia. But I agree that Spotted Pig was too salty. Also, loud and uncomfortable. Fri Sep 04 18:54:05 -0700 2009 4961259 1093353 fm1963 1 5046566 Del Friscos. Overrated to a Fault. Can't understand the place in the least. Someone in this thread said that it wouldn't even exist if it weren't for the business expense lunch. I agree wholeheartedly. Really crappy service, whatever steak, sides were as abysmal as expected. Hate this chain. Really HATE this place. Mon Sep 21 12:10:43 -0700 2009 4815071 14266 Gastronomos 2 5115441 I have to disagree with the Dirty Water dogs being overrated. I can't tell you how many times I have eaten them and they never get old to me...gross-maybe, but delicious nontheless :) Mon Oct 19 15:28:36 -0700 2009 5046566 1105208 ShakeIt 1 5124572 I think almost every restaurant that serves pork belly is overrated - I'm sure there are exceptions. I love reading this because it reminds me what I'm not missing! I've been to a few of these fancy places - Allen & Delancey, Avoce, Ippudo etc - good food but not at all memorable. I remember places like Mara's where Mara gave me great suggestions like special pecan bourban she had just gotten in, Ivo & Lulu where the friendly frenchmen cork my wine and pour me a glass while I wait for a table, and Blue Ribbon Bakery where the waiter insisted on buying me the chocolate chip bread pudding dessert because I just had to try it. Also, someone mentioned Lombardi's - have to agree. If you're going to wait I think John's is much better - but I know pizza is a very, very personal taste :) Oh and I went to Grape & Grain for brunch and it was terrible but everyone raves about it so maybe they had an off day - don't we all? Fri Oct 23 01:10:02 -0700 2009 4815071 259393 Jacquelyn 2 5124852 I think pork belly itself is overrated. this is stuff that NYers wouldn't touch a few years ago, now it's "omg so luscious and rich!" Fri Oct 23 06:48:59 -0700 2009 5124572 18288 janethepain 3 5124859 "this is stuff that NYers wouldn't touch a few years ago" Speak for yourself. This NYer has been eating pork belly his whole life. Fri Oct 23 06:50:51 -0700 2009 5124852 10195 KTinNYC 4 5124868 Not a born and raised NYer...but I've loved pork belly ALL my life as well :) Fri Oct 23 06:56:50 -0700 2009 5124859 93566 kelea 5 5124873 "Not a born and raised NYer" Not many of us are, lol! Fri Oct 23 06:59:39 -0700 2009 5124868 10195 KTinNYC 4 5124875 ok, ok, maybe i meant the average NYer... I've been eating pork belly all my life too - I'm Korean. SAM GYUP SSAL BABY Fri Oct 23 07:00:06 -0700 2009 5124859 18288 janethepain 5 5124894 But certainly isn't "overrated". People may be late to the game but there is no denying the deliciousness of pork belly. Anyway whether most people knew or not they were eating pork belly in the form of bacon. Fri Oct 23 07:12:28 -0700 2009 5124875 10195 KTinNYC 3 5130393 there was a time, a zillion years ago, when this new yorker wouldn't eat sushi either. so what? i was wrong. Sun Oct 25 18:23:00 -0700 2009 5124852 135229 thew 1 5124895 I hate to say it but I think Gramercy Tavern in a tad overrated. Momofuku Ssam as welll! Fri Oct 23 07:12:29 -0700 2009 4815071 76968 steakrules85 1 5133183 NYC hot dogs are Gray's Papaya, not the junk from the street carts! Mon Oct 26 18:21:50 -0700 2009 4815071 1110820 chroma 2 5138143 Momofuku Milk Bar -- for me, this is the only truly bad Momofuku. Yes, the hype may make them all seem overrated but, come on everybody, the other Momofukus are decent enough. Perbacco -- everybody says it's about ordering the right stuff, but Perbacco is not that good. Also, Fatty Crab is utterly over-rated. The UWS one especially is such a theme park and the cooking is sloppy / the food overly fattified. (And I typically appreciate lardo, etc.) Have to defend Blue Hill, though. Most of the food I've eaten there has been amazing. Clearly, some of these things are just a matter of taste -- those who aren't impressed by Blue Hill probably prefer more invention -- but the actually "overrated" places should be doing flat-out disappointing food for the money. Wed Oct 28 13:31:25 -0700 2009 5133183 216217 johannabanana 1 5185202 I think Union Square Cafe is one of the most overrated places in the city. I have been there several times and never a good experience. I even work in the same company. I dont think I will be returning for a while, if ever! I can spend the same at many other places that I now I will love> Mon Nov 16 07:45:55 -0800 2009 4815071 1121857 bsully78