631848 Fri Jun 26 05:52:34 -0700 2009 29 14 Washington DC & Baltimore Area 0 4807758 I have friends who I dine with frequently who love Grace Garden, but don't get done with work early enough to make the long drive worthwhile. Luckily, HowChowBlog recently posted a translation of the "secret" Chinese menu at Hunan Legend in one of the Town Centers in Columbia (Dorsey ?). As is depressingly often the case, it turns out that they are perfectly capable of cranking out really good, authentic Chinese food. The trick is convincing them that you WANT the real deal. The house specialty is more toward the milder Cantonese style of Chinese cuisine, as opposed to the spcier Szechuan focus at Grace Garden, but after several visits, I'd say these folks are right up there as far as quality - if you can convince them to forgo the "Americanizing". The main difference is that the chef at Grace Garden is on a mission to "convert" the masses to "real" chinese food, and he's willing ot take a chance that the customer is ready for it. The Hunan Legend folks seem very wary, perhaps due to too many returns of "real" dishes from those wanting the same old gloppy, overly sweet Americanized stuff. It seems that you really have to work to convince them to let you into the "can be given the good stuff" club. I would suggest that you find and print out that translated menu, take it with you, and be very obvious about consulting it. Then indicate to your waiter (or preferably the owner, if she's there) that you've heard very good things about their "real" Chinese food, and that you want to try it. Then go back a couple of times to convince them that you're serious. I'd not call them better than Grace Garden, and I'd probably rank them slightly below G.G., but mostly because I prefer G.G.'s spicier style of food. For those who are much closer to Hunan Legend than to Grace Garden, or who prefer the milder and more subtle end of the Chinese food spectrum, it's an option well worth exploring. G.G. fans, please believe me - I'm not trying to syphon customers away from G.G.! Instead, I'm hoping that we can "grow" the market for both of them, and perhaps convince more Asian restaurants in the are that there is a viable customer base for the "real" versions of their respective cuisines, in addition to the dumbed down version. It doesn't have to be all one or the other. It turns out that the owners at H.L. are actually Malaysian, so my friends and I are now working on coaxing some authentic Malaysian dishes out of them, now that they know that we really appreciate the authentic preparations. If we are successful, I'll pass on info about what dishes we find out about. There is one Malaysian stif-fried noodle dish on the "secret" menu, and the owner has promised to let us try a "not on any menu" seafood curry that is popular with their Malaysian customers. Who knows what other wonders may await us? Fri Jun 26 05:52:34 -0700 2009 11647 Warthog 1 4807831 Can I ask you a favor? Please ask them whether they would prepare chili crab. If they do, they might instantly become a destination restaurant for some CHers. Question, do they have tanks of live seafood? Fri Jun 26 06:21:13 -0700 2009 4807758 180506 Ericandblueboy 2 4808336 If they have tanks, I've not noticed them, so I'd assume no to that question. I'll try to remember the chili crab question the next time I go there, but I presume one could call, ask to speak to the owner, explain that you heard about the Chinese menu and that they are willing to do authentic Chinese or Malaysian food, and ask her if they can do what you're looking for. Based on our experience so far, she's been very willing to get down into the details of what one might want, and how one might like it prepared. She and the chef seem to enjoy dealing with people who are knowledgeable and appreciative of the cuisine. I can say that they will do "not-on-the-menu" items. Last night, before we could order, the owner told us that she had bitter melon (which we had asked about previously), and offered to have the traditional dish of bitter melon and beef in black bean sauce made for us. She then asked us if we had interest in lap chong (Chinese sausage). My friend lit up and asked if they could do lap chong with cabbage. They could, they did, and my friend said it was the first place he has ever found that did it as well as the Cantonese master chef whose kitchen my friend had worked in back in his college days. Having listened to my friend speak longingly of good lap chong dishes, and desparagingly of bad ones, for many years, I can only presume that his expectations for that dish were fairly high, and it's notable that Hunan Legend met them. In the cases of both the lap chong and the bitter melon, the owner also discussed other preparations using those ingredients that we might wish to try on future visits. As I said before, they do seem to know what they are doing, and the major hurdle seems to be one of convincing them that you're seriously interested and will not leave them stuck with the waste of dishes rejected and sent back. Fri Jun 26 09:09:56 -0700 2009 4807831 11647 Warthog 3 4849610 Thanks for the wonderful commentary Warthog. I enjoyed reading your commentary very much as I have too been one of those customers who have managed to be 'granted' access to their 'secret' menu. The process as you've mentioned is enjoyable, esp. talking to and learning more about the owners in the process. I've also posted on HowChow about some of my favorites being the Chilean Sea Bass cooked in a tangy and spicy sauce. If you haven't tried it already, I highly recommend it. Sea cucumber in a special brown sauce and the appetizer 'cold-cut seafood trio' (which consists of marinated sliced pig's knuckle, jellyfish, and cuttlefish) is also my personal favorites but I recall that those have to be ordered in advance (like G.G) due to preparation. Hope to hear more of your new findings! Sat Jul 11 14:41:56 -0700 2009 4808336 1092858 reiyi 1 4811215 That sounds terrific. I'm so glad that the menu was useful! Sat Jun 27 13:23:18 -0700 2009 4807758 198692 HowChowBlog 1 4849645 where can we find a translated menu??? Sat Jul 11 15:00:29 -0700 2009 4807758 12234 hon 2 4854832 Do a web search on "Hunan Legend Secret Menu Translation" and you should find it. Mon Jul 13 14:30:23 -0700 2009 4849645 11647 Warthog 1 4850024 Thanks for this write-up, Warthog. Glad to see you around! Anyway, although there's a lot of "fusion," for want of a better word, in Malaysian cuisine, I generally think of it in terms of three big categories: The Malay (to me, most similar to Indonesian), the ethnic Chinese, and those from Southern India. Do you happen to know the owner's ethnicity? (Although given that they have Chinese food, I'd assume they are of Chinese descent.) This is not to say that they couldn't cook great food from any group, but honestly I've have never had Hainanese chicken rice from someone who was Malay, and likewise, have never had roti canai from anyone other than people of Indian descent....). Also on my wish list for local Malaysian (and Singaporean food) would be laksa. Mmmmm....And, I'm pretty sure that's truly Malay/Chinese fusion! I'm really eager to learn more about this place. Please keep us posted! Sat Jul 11 18:21:34 -0700 2009 4807758 54408 baltoellen 2 4850711 Although post was directed towards Warthog, I think I have heard the owners mention they know how to make laksa (a spicy noodle soup); however, I think it may require some work to get them to serve it, simply because I think they only mentioned making it on their own time (during a brief conversation we had so I'm not 100% sure). I would assume they would know how to make laksa since they are Malaysian-Chinese (read this from the article posted in the restaurant) and they know how to make the off-any-menu seafood curry. Sun Jul 12 06:40:43 -0700 2009 4850024 1092858 reiyi 3 4851740 Please see if they can do laksa and chili crabs!!! Sun Jul 12 15:13:57 -0700 2009 4850711 180506 Ericandblueboy 2 4861491 SLIGHT DIVERGENCE FROM HUNAN LEGEND DISCUSSION BaltoEllen, I think Asian Court has (or had) some form of laksa on their menu. I can't vouch for how well they would do it, but it might be at least worth checking if my memory is correct or not about it being on the menu. If they do have it, what you do with that info is your decision. I have no way of predicting if it would fall into the "things A.C. does reasonably well" bucket or in the "not their strong suit" category. Good luck!!! I'll also try to remember to ask about laksa at Hunan Legend the next time I'm there. Wed Jul 15 12:48:49 -0700 2009 4850024 11647 Warthog 3 4861644 Asian Court just sold by the Louie's to a corporation. Sunday showed new faces, good organization, food tasted pretty good with decent selection plus runners with items carrying items grilled by guy with hotplate at the bar, which is new. Wed Jul 15 13:28:41 -0700 2009 4861491 72002 chowsearch 3 4862138 I guess at this point, given the news from chowsearch, it's probably best to concentrate on laksa at HL. Thanks in advance for asking about about it.. Also, while it's still the summer, you might want to see if they can make chendol, the Malaysian/Singaporean version of our beloved snowball--but no marshmallow. Wed Jul 15 16:08:34 -0700 2009 4861491 54408 baltoellen 4 4862213 Hm, I think Jesse Wong is Malaysian, maybe he or Asean Bistro's staff are approachable for special requests. Wed Jul 15 16:38:50 -0700 2009 4862138 72002 chowsearch 4 4894429 Clarification--Mrs. Louie is still at Asian Court weekends, ownership unclear. They did have what seemed like a Malaysian stir fry with E noodles the other night and the non dim sum daily menu is decidely non-Westernized. Mon Jul 27 11:59:07 -0700 2009 4862138 72002 chowsearch 1 4862528 thanks to How Chow, I now have the secret menu, Mmm wha hahahahahahahahahah. Wed Jul 15 18:45:08 -0700 2009 4807758 12234 hon 2 4867593 So I go in there today armed with my secret menu to get carry-out for lunch. At the counter they have the menu taped right there on it, just not translated. The woman behind the counter asks to help me, I whip out the menu and point at the "e" noodles with chicken threads, I felt like noodles today. She got very flustered and kept saying "oh my, oh my" and finally says, "you want that, it's chinese" to which I say thats why I want it. She had to call over I guess the manager and he said yes - it was bizarre. Anywho, the dish is a bit bland, the only thing separating it from just being Lo Mein are the e (wheat) noodles, they are fresh and toothsome and addictive. I will definately go back and try something else. I wanted to ask some questions about some of the stuff on the menu, like whats in the Malaysian Stir Fry, but the woman seemed too sketched out by my order. Here is a link to the Secret Menu (thank you HowChowBlog for providing it to me): http://www.clubbasement.com/hunanlegend.pdf Fri Jul 17 10:34:39 -0700 2009 4862528 12234 hon 3 4892724 Hon, Based on past experience, I would say trying to catch one of the owners (well, I guess the wife, since the owners are married, but the wife runs the front of the house and the husband is the chef behind it all) is your best bet to really get good suggestions and knowledge of the menu. I find that the female staff up front is not as knowledgable as the female owner as far as the 'secret' menu and how to 'manipulate' the menu as Warthog mentioned with the Chinese Sausage. I've never seen her there on Wednesdays or Thursdays, so I presume she doesn't work those days; perhaps try catching her on a busier day such as Friday the weekends, as we generally see her those days when we stop by. Sun Jul 26 19:52:18 -0700 2009 4867593 1092858 reiyi 3 4893802 I get really annoyed with this whole "Americans can't eat ethnic food" mindset, and in my experience, Chinese restaurants are by far the worst offenders. I've had places refuse to allow me to order a particular dish that I was told I "wouldn't like". I've had dishes substituted in an attempt to pass off Dish B (which I didn't order) as Dish A (which I did order, but was not deemed capable of appreciating). I've had one instance where both of those have happened on successive occasions at the same place (now out of business), only to have the proper order taken and the proper dish served on the third occasion when I was in the company of an Asian person. And for those who are wondering why I went back - it became a quest to get them to serve me the dish, no matter how long it took. I can't think of any other business where one could get away with not selling a particular product or substituting something else that the customer didn't ask for, based strictly on assumptionos based on the customer's ethnicity. "I'm sorry, Sir, I can't sell you that model of washing machine - you're <insert ethnicity>, and I know you wouldn't like it!" Luckily, my friends and I seem to have gotten on the "OK" list at Hunan Legend, and have not had to put up with this "But you won't like that!" stuff, but it still upsets me to read of Hon's experience with this same sort of thing. That certainly takes my fondness for the place down a few notches, just on general principles. Mon Jul 27 09:00:24 -0700 2009 4867593 11647 Warthog 4 4894407 I want to go back and try something else but not if they are going to dummy down the dishes for me, I am there with that menu because I want to try real chinese food. Sheesh. Mon Jul 27 11:52:34 -0700 2009 4893802 12234 hon 5 4894776 hon, I agree. Like I said, my friends and I are fortunate that we are now recognized on sight, the staff know our names, and we are generally fawned over as if we were space aliens or something, presumably all because we like "real" Chinese, rather than disliking it as "all" Americans supposedly do. This is part of the reason that I'm a big fan of Grace Garden. They seem to take the view that people will like good Chinese food if only they try it. It's alomost the opposite of the usual "Americans don't like our food" view - the Grace Garden folks are trying to talk their customers into trying the good stuff, not trying to prevent non-Asian customers from trying it, even if the customer wants to. As otheres have noted, talking to the owner helps at Hunan Legend. Wave the menu translation, and be firm that you want the real Chinese food. One shouldn't have to go to such lengths, but "Americans don't like real Chinese food" seems to be a deeply ingrained stereotype or prejudice, probably reinforced by interactions with many of our countrymen who actually can't deal with anything more adventurous than Wonder Bread. Grrrrrrrrrr... Mon Jul 27 13:29:53 -0700 2009 4894407 11647 Warthog 6 4920849 As much I would also dislike the process of having to 'work' just to be able to try authentic Chinese, after talking to the owners and our waiter, I think I understand why this stereotype is so prevalent amongst Chinese restaurants. It seems as if they have had food consistently sent back or 'rejected' (as they put it) for not being the 'correct thing' or being "too oily", which is a strain for smaller mom-and-pop places. Sometimes I just want to go off at those (actually I manage to overhear an ignorant customer the last time I was there and this definitely opened my eyes, well ears to be exact) who ruin it for those of us who actually want the 'real deal'. But back to the secret menu, we've been itching to try something new since it's about time we paid them a visit again. Any suggestions Warthog? We've already had the "cold plate" appetizer that consist of marinated cuttlefish/pig's kunckle/jellyfish, pickled mustard cabbage and beancurd strips, Chiliean Seabass in a tangy spicy sauce (which I highly recommend; we always get this when we hae the chance and it's our favorite), Chiliean Seabass fillets with pork and tofu, clams in black bean sauce (another favorite and delicious!) and the Snowpeas leaves. I was thinking of trying the stuffed eggplants and peppers that was recommended to us the last time we were there, but we need a few more ideas...if anyone has suggestions please post! Wed Aug 05 15:24:52 -0700 2009 4894776 1092858 reiyi 7 4921513 My friends and I have not had any so-so dishes yet off the H.L. "secret" menu, but I think my personal faves so far are the <beef, squid, etc. - pick your preference> and sour vegetable choices towards the bottom of the first column (around item 11, IIRC) and the tofu stuffed with shrimp paste in a luxurious white/clear sauce (pipa tofu, I think it's called on the menu), which I think was item 4 or 5 at the top of the left column. The latter is so simple, yet so decadently luxurious that I find it habit forming. They also do a very nice rendition of beef and bitter melon with black bean sauce that's not on even the secret menu, and their lap chong and cabbage dish (also not on the menu) is also quite good. In the end, though, those are just favorites that come to mind as I type this - I don't have the cheat sheet handy by my computer. I would say that the quality level is consistent enough across all the dishes we've tried so far that there doesn't seem to be a "weak" category to be avoided. Therefore, perhaps the best option might be to just pick a favorite ingredient, type of dish, or preparation technique and just pick whatever on the menu is closest to that vein. Or if the owner is there, explain the general type of thing you're looking for and ask for suggestions. She may offer something off the menu, as she did when she asked us if we like lap chong. I really don't think you can go too far wrong. One could have a fun Chow outing starting at Hunan Legend for one set of dishes, then piling into cars to Grace Garden for "Round Two", or vice versa. Both places are very accommodating once you've established your liking for "the good stuff", and yet the two chefs do work somewhat different parts of the Chinese cuisine spectrum. It's nice to have two such places available to us, don't you think? Wed Aug 05 19:54:33 -0700 2009 4920849 11647 Warthog 8 4941842 Seems like H.L’s “secret” menu is now officially an open secret! My husband went in for carryout the other day and happened to see the “secret” menu fully translated and taped to their front counter. As much as I would love to post a copy to share with everyone, it still boggles my mind as to why he didn’t even manage to ask for a copy! Guess I’ll have to wait til next time before I can get my hands on a copy of the translated menu. From what he mentioned, it seems everything is translated nicely and organized well, which is nice to have since the version posted on HowChow is a bit loosely translated (although much appreciation to the original translator) and a bit hard to read. I wonder if they’ve been secretly listening to our requests to have it translated… And Warthog, we might just try that idea of yours when our friends are in town this week! Wed Aug 12 19:43:34 -0700 2009 4921513 1092858 reiyi 9 4942405 Sounds like you have some husband training to do. I've largely been successful the other way, wife-training in the ways of Hounding. Thu Aug 13 04:44:43 -0700 2009 4941842 11368 Dennis S 9 4943641 I have posted a copy of it to my website as a PDF, see link in post above. Thu Aug 13 10:56:36 -0700 2009 4941842 12234 hon 1 4944778 I hear that the Hunan Legend folks have an "official" translation of the Chinese menu now, and you can just pick it up at the counter. Thu Aug 13 16:31:09 -0700 2009 4807758 198692 HowChowBlog 2 4947976 A friend mentioned to us that the other day he was at H.L, he saw a couple eating what he described as "spicy wontons" (he said that's also what it's called on the regular menu I think), but with a slight twist after he asked the owner about the dish. It turns out the ones on the regular menu are typically made with shredded pork, but the ones he saw the couple eating were actually made of shrimp paste apparently. We really want to give this a try, but wanted to see if anyone's had this dish or version of the dish before so we can get a few opinions? Fri Aug 14 20:33:27 -0700 2009 4944778 1092858 reiyi 2 5086692 Stopped by today and they were out of the official translation menus. Just saw that HowChow posted the official version recently: http://howchow.blogspot.com/2009/09/hunan-legend-not-secret-menu.html I still prefer the handwritten bootleg Secret Menu. Overall, I find it more descriptive and it's way cooler. Based on Warthog's recommendation, I tried the pipa tofu and it was as exquisite as advertised. The wife said her husband's favorite dish was the Pickled Mustard Cabbage with Squid (sour veggie squid), which Warthog also praised, and I thoroughly enjoyed that one as well. I was able to get both orders prepared with a good amount of heat ("spicy"), the way they prepare it for themselves. The tofu was of course less spicy so as not to overpower the delicate flavor. The sour veggie squid was laden with extremely hot jalapenos, including seeds and everything. Delicious! However, I know some people don't like pepper seeds, so be aware of that if you order a spicy dish there. I would say these two dishes were as good, if not better, than what we've had at our current favorite Chinese-Malay restaurant -- namely, Malaysian Restaurant Inc in Flushing (Queens). We also appreciated the Oolong tea bags Hunan Legend included with our carryout order. Some random notes from our discussion today: I asked them about the Malaysian Chow Foon (Malaysian Stir Fry) and was told it's different because it has a curry flavor, whereas the Oriental Stir-Fry with Jalapenos and Shredded Pork, e.g., does not. I love the fresh Malaysian curry leaves used by the Queens-based Malaysian restaurants, but sadly Hunan Legend is unable to acquire these. Like many have mentioned before, they are willing to accomodate requests. E.g., I could easily order the aforementioned Oriental Stir-Fry with squid instead of pork. Wed Oct 07 15:38:50 -0700 2009 4944778 107374 bmorecupcake 3 5175106 Referencing the post I made a while back about the "spicy shrimp wontons" (which apparently is a variation of the Hunan Spicy Wontons on the menu), both my husband and I finally went back to get a dose, and they were simply wonderful. For an 'appetizer', and true to Hunan Legend's form, the portions were very generous and the shrimp paste inside the dumplings were exquisite. Since our first visit back (after being out of town for a while), we've gone back a few more times just to pick some up whether it be carryout or during a dine-in experience. It's truly become a staple for the both of us and I would definitely recommend this to those who have yet to try it. We also notice two new items on the 'secret menu'. We've only tried one of two so far, the steamed garlic shrimp (to be clear, these are with shells), and the flavor was again, wonderful. White rice complements the dish wonderfully because the sauce is simply delicious. The other new item I believe, if I remember correctly, is a Malaysian Seafood Curry, which we are anxious to try during our next visit. We were talking to another couple during our wait for carryout, who had tried it, and it seems like another must-try item. They said to ask them to prepare it with extra 'heat', but that was their personal preference they said after they had it a few times. Very excited to go back now this weekend... Thu Nov 12 05:57:47 -0800 2009 5086692 1092858 reiyi