631253 Wed Jun 24 12:15:53 -0700 2009 27 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 4802496 I always thought they were different varieties but this says portobellos are mature white mushrooms. Is this true? Any scientists out there? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agaricus_bisporus Wed Jun 24 12:15:53 -0700 2009 10401 soniabegonia 1 4802542 they're mature brown Crimini, not white button. Wed Jun 24 12:28:05 -0700 2009 4802496 103920 goodhealthgourmet 1 4802544 I thought creminis (little brown ones) were immature portobellos but certain about that. Wed Jun 24 12:28:28 -0700 2009 4802496 131001 c oliver 2 4804132 You are correct that creminis and portabellos are the same variety at a different stage of maturity. Ive read that the white button and cremini are related but I'm not sure how. Wed Jun 24 22:41:51 -0700 2009 4802544 22220 Kelli2006 1 4802615 I'm no scientist, but I'd like to think I have a decent understanding of taxonomy and cladistics. So, here goes. No, it's not true. But that doesn't mean what Wikipedia says is incorrect. Agaricus bisporus is a species of mushroom. Button mushrooms and portobellos are both members of this species, but that does no make them the same thing as each other. I believe they are two different cultivars, but I might be wrong. It is possible they are simply two expressions of the same species as it grows under certain controlled conditions. Either way, here is a somewhat appropriate comparison: Broccoli is classified as Brassica oleracea. Kale is classified as Brassica oleracea. Kohlrabi is classified as Brassica oleracea. There are a dozen or so other vegetables that are all this single species. They're not separate subspecies or anything. Genetically they are nearly indistinguishable from one another. But anyone who's ever eaten these plants can tell you that they are very definitely not the same thing as each other. Likewise, cabbage and brussels sprouts both belong to this species, but brussels sprouts are not immature cabbages. They're different expressions of one species, and in this case are classified as separate cultivars. So, basically, they are the same species, but they're not the same thing, and one is not the immature version of the other. Wed Jun 24 12:51:34 -0700 2009 4802496 36408 danieljdwyer 2 4802706 Oy. That's why I'm not a scientist. Thanks for the explanation. Wed Jun 24 13:11:14 -0700 2009 4802615 10401 soniabegonia 1 4802930 Cremini mushrooms are baby bellos Wed Jun 24 14:05:01 -0700 2009 4802496 43893 C. Hamster 2 4803102 Oh, goody, I thought I was right! Wed Jun 24 14:51:05 -0700 2009 4802930 131001 c oliver 2 4806113 My daughter brought some Baby Bellas over to put on the grill and she also thought they were small portabellas. I'll have to let her know what they really are. Thu Jun 25 13:15:12 -0700 2009 4802930 80937 danhole 1 4803556 Sorry for being a stickler, BUT NO MUSHROOM IS A PORTOBELLO! Portobello ios a road in London. There are mushrooms correctly known as PORTABELLAS. Is is disheartening to see the incorrect name continue to spread. Wed Jun 24 18:13:48 -0700 2009 4802496 274541 bagelman01 2 4803573 Well, golly, since one of the proposed origins of the word is from the road in London, then where did that darned *o* get replaced with an *a*????? Disheartening? Please. Wed Jun 24 18:20:40 -0700 2009 4803556 131001 c oliver 2 4803576 sorry bagelman, but i'm going to have to call you out on this one. portobello is a perfectly acceptable variant. in fact, it's the *primary* entry in some references (including the Merriam-Webster Dictionary). Wed Jun 24 18:21:59 -0700 2009 4803556 103920 goodhealthgourmet 3 4803604 Neither is a traditional word. Rather than being "baby bellas", cremini are the ones with a long-standing name as one cultivar/variety of a commonly cultivated mushroom. When "exotic" foods started becoming big business during the 80s, overgrown cremini started showing up "branded" as portabellas/portobellos. According to the same report repeated ad nauseam on the web, the "a" version was adopted by some sort of "Mushroom Council" but that's its only claim to propriety. For what little it's worth, I seem to remember seeing "portobello" first... Wed Jun 24 18:32:24 -0700 2009 4803576 11980 MikeG 4 4804958 "Mushroom Council" Heh heh ... Thu Jun 25 07:56:52 -0700 2009 4803604 43893 C. Hamster 5 4815976 Don't chuckle too much. The portobello is just about the slickest marketing pitch there ever was. They really are just over grown crimini's. http://www.theworldwidegourmet.com/products/vegetables/portobello-or-portobella/ Mon Jun 29 14:35:00 -0700 2009 4804958 253154 Fritter 6 4817712 Very true, but I still love them. But absolutely right. Tue Jun 30 07:54:43 -0700 2009 4815976 232829 kchurchill5 7 4817816 Yes they are delicious. I like to lightly marinate them with EVOO, Soy, S&P and some fresh garlic and then grill them fin side up so the marinade stays inside as they cook. I only flip them for a few seconds at the end. Tue Jun 30 08:25:55 -0700 2009 4817712 253154 Fritter 8 4817997 I agree, the best. Ever do OJ, sesame and soy. Really tasty. A favorite recipe: I stuff with scallops grilled (with the same marinade, but less time), s/p of course. I grill the scallops, chop and then toss with scallions, sauteed leeks, diced avacado, a little lime juice, panko crumbs and topped with goat cheese and then baked until the cheese melts. Just a few minutes. Amazing and it is dinner. A nice salad and grilled bread and nothing more. Tue Jun 30 09:18:18 -0700 2009 4817816 232829 kchurchill5 2 4803603 funny, the wikipedia page says "a portobello (frequently misspelled as portabella, portabello, or portobella)." Of course, wikipedia is often wrong... Wed Jun 24 18:32:02 -0700 2009 4803556 10401 soniabegonia 1 4803948 Very possibly. A produce guy told me that was so, a few weeks back; really. Then, produce people are like mushrooms: kept in the dark and fed shit. How would they know? From my mushroom collecting and reading it is obvious that as a mushroom matures it changes shape and color. Not unusual at all for light colored mushrooms to darken as they grow and mature. Wed Jun 24 20:48:43 -0700 2009 4802496 137946 Scargod 2 4804457 If that is the case, how come I can find "baby bellas", as stores around here call them, that are smaller than your average white mushroom, and I can find white mushrooms that are just about as large as your average portobello? Maybe they just hit puberty at different sizes? Thu Jun 25 05:02:20 -0700 2009 4803948 36408 danieljdwyer 3 4804674 I don't think many mushrooms change dramatically once the fruiting bodies start to mature but in any event, my usual grocer has huge bins of both side by side, every day of the year. You see white buttons and cremini side by side, in a full range of sizes, including white "buttons" as large as small portobellos/portabellas. Creminis and portobellos are more or less the same tan/brown color, white, are, even when huge, glaringly white by comparison. Portabellas (apparently the current preferred trade name) get darker and sort of scaly, but they don't change all that much; huge whites the size of small portabellas are as smooth and white as the smallest. But just because they look and taste a little different, doesn't mean they are what scientists call different "species." Thu Jun 25 06:33:45 -0700 2009 4804457 11980 MikeG 4 4806165 So would you say it's accurate to call them different cultivars of Agaricus bisporus? That was my initial thought about, but I am unsure if they qualify as cultivars. Thu Jun 25 13:28:15 -0700 2009 4804674 36408 danieljdwyer 5 4807068 I've never been sure whether "cultivar" is even a proper term in (formal) botanical nomenclature and/or how it differs from "variety" and "form." Usually, taxonomists are in their own little world and among everyone else, the discussions get very confusing, very quickly with terms like "cultivar", "strain" and "variety" being tossed around more or less as synonyms. Thu Jun 25 18:57:51 -0700 2009 4806165 11980 MikeG 1 4806123 NO, mature crimini, Thu Jun 25 13:17:17 -0700 2009 4802496 232829 kchurchill5 1 4806154 Agaricus bisporus—known variously as the common mushroom, button mushroom, white mushroom, table mushroom, portobello mushroom, crimini mushroom, Swiss Brown mushrooms, also known as Cremini, Italian Brown, Italian mushroom, Roman Brown mushrooms, or cultivated mushroom —is an edible basidiomycete mushroom native to grasslands in Europe and North America. A. bisporus is cultivated in more than 70 countries.[1] The common mushroom has a complicated taxonomic history. It was first described in 1884 as a variety (var. hortensis) of Agaricus campestris.[citation needed] Danish mycologist Jakob Emanuel Lange later reviewed a cultivar specimen, and dubbed it Psalliota hortensis var. bispora in 1926. The epithet bispora distinguished the two-spored basidia from four-spored varieties). In 1938, Mõller and Schäffer promoted the variety to species status, calling it Psalliota bispora.[citation needed] Emil J. Imbach renamed imparted the species' current scientific name, Agaricus bisporus, after the genus Psalliota was renamed to Agaricus in 1946.[1] Among English speakers, Agaricus bisporus is known by many names. A young specimen with a closed cap and either pale white or light brown flesh is known as a button mushroom or white mushroom. When the flesh darkens, the immature mushroom is variously known as a crimini mushroom, baby portobello, baby bella, mini bella, portabellini, Roman mushroom, Italian mushroom, or brown mushroom. At this stage of maturation, the cap may also begin to open slightly. In maturity, it is called a portobello (frequently misspelled as portabella, portabello, or portobella). The French name is champignon de Paris ("Paris mushroom"). Both spellings of portabella and portobello are used. The Mushroom Council, however, uses the two "a" version. [2] [3] --------------------------------------------- Portobello - pronounced [por-toh-BEHL-loh] The portobello also called portabella is really simply a brown crimini mushroom in disguise. Evidently the usage of the two words "portobello vs. portabella" is simply an issue of a marketing brand. Once the little brown crimini grows up to be about 4" - 6" in diameter he is deemed to be a portobello. A brown crimini mushroom is a juvenile portobello. There as many theories on the heritage of the name as there were for why is a Flatiron steak called a Flatiron steak! We referred to Elizabeth Schneider's vegetable bible "Vegetables from Amaranth to Zucchini" for some truth and learned that the only information available is theory. It seems that there are as many "origins" as there are experts to quote them. Here are some of the main ones: Chipotle Dot Named after Portobello Road in London which has many high end antique shops and other fashionable establishments. Chipotle Dot Named after a T.V. show called Portobello Chipotle Dot The portobello in Northern Italy is called "cappellone" which means "big hat". Thu Jun 25 13:26:32 -0700 2009 4802496 232829 kchurchill5 2 4806218 If you are going to cite almost entire articles from wikipedia and gourmetsleuth you should credit your sources or better yet provide links. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agaricus_bisporus http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/portobellosportabellas.htm Thu Jun 25 13:41:30 -0700 2009 4806154 10195 KTinNYC 3 4806286 I can't, when I try to add the link it won't. I get this problem every know and then. I would love to do that but can't. I goes blank and then I get booted off and the page shuts down. I can do it at times and then other times it doesn't work. I have had my computer looked at and it is fine. This is the only site I have this problem with. I also can't expand the posts 99% of the time and searching is non existent. I have reported the problems. I would of linked if I could of. Thu Jun 25 13:53:09 -0700 2009 4806218 232829 kchurchill5