627488 Fri Jun 12 22:05:20 -0700 2009 51 29 Not About Food 0 4768819 I normally expect to pay for whatevery I get at a restaurant, but whenever I've gone to a very expensive place and got offered something little before the meal starts it's always been free. To be fair, I've only ever had this maybe 4 times ever so "always" may not be meaningful. I just had a very nice meal in a top-rated place (in the city where I live and hadn't been to in a while) where we were offered (and accepted) an amuse-bouche (although it was an Italian place and they used a different word). We ordered apps, pasta course and entrees, so it wasn't like we needed the extra food. It was a couple of tiny meatballs with a sauce and quite delicious. I thought it was offered as a bonus, although we were asked if we wanted it and we said sure, I'm pretty sure that previous times the amuse-bouche just came out without asking if we wanted it. When the bill came we were charged $7 each for them. Everything was just great and the $14 wasn't worth talking about (given the size of the bill) so I didn't bring it up. I'm not upset at all, just curious whether it's common nowadays to charge for an amuse-bouche in high-end restaurants. Fri Jun 12 22:05:20 -0700 2009 69044 hsk 1 4768846 They have always been free for me. I've never heard of being charged. Sounds like a ripoff. But I wasn't there to witness the exchange, so can't be sure... Fri Jun 12 22:22:14 -0700 2009 4768819 13853 Leonardo 1 4768868 The few times one has been offered it has been free. Charging for it sounds bit cheap and tacky to me. Fri Jun 12 22:52:35 -0700 2009 4768819 226942 al b. darned 1 4768884 Ugh, this does sound tacky. I have never, ever been charged for an amuse bouches. And they are frequently given in NYC restaurants. Fri Jun 12 23:10:55 -0700 2009 4768819 64215 cimui 1 4768891 An amuse-bouche should never be charged to the diner. Unless the customer orders the item, if the restaurant provides it sua sponte, it should be on the house. Fri Jun 12 23:20:01 -0700 2009 4768819 11583 ipsedixit 1 4768929 I wouldn't be horribly opposed to docking the tip in this case. Good service means no gotchas. Fri Jun 12 23:53:38 -0700 2009 4768819 79880 xanadude 1 4768975 an amuse bouche is free... this must have been the restaurant trying to tack onto the bill probably asking if you wanted to try the special app of the house (or whatever they are trying to sell) regardless of the complete meal ordered. depending on how this is presented I could easily see how you felt it would be complimentary. The restaurant needs to be upfront about extra charges...especially if an item is "offered" like this Sat Jun 13 01:29:36 -0700 2009 4768819 43549 ekdd 1 4769016 an amuse bouche is a french custom, adopted by many american chefs, and there really isn't an italian "word" for it. cicchetti is the venetian name for very small tapas. was that the word used by the server? even so, not the same. italians would have antipasti before the 1st course. i have never served, nor received, an amuse as an option. it's given, or gotten, no charge, to start the meal. your server, possibly forced by his/her boss, pulled a fast one. bad taste in my mouth, even if the cost was minimal relative to the bill. Sat Jun 13 03:55:47 -0700 2009 4768819 30273 hotoynoodle 1 4769051 Could the OP clarify the phrase "we were offered (and accepted)". Do you mean the waiter asked you if you would be interested in it, you said yes and he brought it out? Or he brought it out unasked, and 'offered' it by putting it in front of you. I am curious, as I have never been asked if I wanted the amuse bouche prior to it being brought out. It just shows up. Sat Jun 13 04:51:22 -0700 2009 4768819 139219 Sooeygun 2 4769103 great question Sooey...will definitely change from an AB to a gotcha. Sat Jun 13 05:38:08 -0700 2009 4769051 11290 jfood 2 4769198 this was my question as well. an amuse bouche is always just brought out. if they asked if you wanted it, and you ordered it, it isn't an amuse bouche, it's just a tacky sales technique Sat Jun 13 06:39:03 -0700 2009 4769051 135229 thew 2 4769378 I was pretty sure I'd never been asked, either, the few times I've ever had an amuse bouche. This time is was something like "The chef has a --- just a couple of bites of --- (described in detail), would you like to try it?" I can't remember the exact wording, I'm pretty sure there was no suggestion that it was free, I just assumed based on what was said. It was listed on the bill as "stuzzi" - I googled it and I guess it means tapa. I wasn't upset at all, I paid the bill and tipped well, the service was very good. My dining partner had also assumed it was free and was pretty annoyed when I mentioned it afterwards, hence the reason for this post. Sat Jun 13 08:08:37 -0700 2009 4769051 69044 hsk 3 4769463 Not AB. it was upselling. Live and learn. " I'm pretty sure there was no suggestion that it was free" - then why the question when the bill included? Sat Jun 13 09:01:18 -0700 2009 4769378 11290 jfood 4 4771303 Well there was the "impression" it was free. But I'm now subscribing to alanbarnes' very sage advice, "As a rule of thumb, if the server asks if you want it, you're going to pay for it." so no more dumb questions for me! :) Sun Jun 14 06:58:29 -0700 2009 4769463 69044 hsk 2 4769773 Good point, Sooeygun. It sounds more like a sleazy sales tactic when you put it that way. The few times I have eaten upscale enough to have an AB offered, it was brought out and presented, not, "Would you care for...?" and never charged for it. In the scenario described by the OP, I would have been "gotten" too. <blush!> It's annoying to think an otherwise fine establishment has to stoop to such tactics. I don't splurge that often, and I would definitely vote with my feet the next time. I would also make it a point to call the place the next day and tell the manager why. And then I would tell all my friends. No, they won't go broke without my business, but I'd boycott them just the same. Sat Jun 13 11:45:51 -0700 2009 4769051 226942 al b. darned 2 4769891 I've never been asked, either. Sat Jun 13 12:45:17 -0700 2009 4769051 11995 pikawicca 1 4769113 If someone showed up at my table with a plate of food and asked if I wanted it, I'd assume it was free (and I'd be royally pissed off if it wasn't). I've frequently heard the the server say "this is a gift from the chef" when presenting the amuse bouche - then, I know for sure. Sat Jun 13 05:46:25 -0700 2009 4768819 13722 small h 1 4769124 On a trip to Rio I encountered the practice of placing some items on the table and charging if you ate them. Sat Jun 13 05:58:25 -0700 2009 4768819 28638 phantomdoc 2 4769276 That happened to me years ago in Frankfurt, with soft pretzels. I know not to drink the Pellegrino. And now I know not to eat the pretzels. Sat Jun 13 07:15:58 -0700 2009 4769124 13722 small h 3 4769898 Or the bread rolls. Sat Jun 13 12:45:48 -0700 2009 4769276 11995 pikawicca 2 4769506 Henceforth to be known as the "mini bar corollary" since these days all you have to do is open the mini bar in your hotel room and take something out to look at it and the computer charges you for it, whether you ate it or not. Me: "I didn't eat those cashews, I swear!" Hotel Cashier: "Is this result, from running your finger print and DNA off the cashew jar, through the National Mini Bar Computer Data Base your correct name, address and photo Mr. Servorg?" Me: "Well, yet but...." HC: "That's all I needed to know! Guilty!!!" "Pay up and get out" Me: "Mutter, sputter" as I pull at my shirt collar to release some of the steam rising up as I break out in flop sweat... Sat Jun 13 09:23:30 -0700 2009 4769124 108169 Servorg 3 4769528 jfood never takes the key for the minibar and every now and then still gets charged. Sat Jun 13 09:32:02 -0700 2009 4769506 11290 jfood 4 4769543 I am working on my Indiana Jones quick-swap technique. Patent pending. Sat Jun 13 09:37:58 -0700 2009 4769528 13722 small h 2 4773392 Yes, the "couvert." It usually had a couple of different bread, tapenade, cheese. And it was just brought, you weren't asked and you were charged. Unless we were really hungry, we would say no when it showed up. But if you didn't know, you'd have thought it was free. Mon Jun 15 04:58:37 -0700 2009 4769124 131001 c oliver 1 4769280 I have never been charged for amuse-bouche; it has always been included in the price of the dinner (prix fixe or a la carte). I agree with others who have posted that charging is tacky, but if it was asked whether you'd like it instead of simply having it brought to the table? The charge is mildly justified, but still a turn off. Sat Jun 13 07:18:06 -0700 2009 4768819 224238 Caralien 1 4769423 There is, of course, no such thing as "free". I normally see an amuse served when it's part of a table d'hote menu rather than a carte. Similarly a pre-dessert. On the rare occasions, when I've been served an amuse when eating off the carte, I havnt been charged separately but appreciate that the cost of it is built into the cost of other dishes I'm eating. Sat Jun 13 08:36:35 -0700 2009 4768819 154102 Harters 1 4769447 As a rule of thumb, if the server asks if you want it, you're going to pay for it. I've never paid for an amuse, but I've never been asked if I wanted one, either. The server just puts them on the table whether you want them or not. (And when DW doesn't - bonus time - I get two!) I've got an even more extreme example. At La Folie, a Michelin-starred place in San Francisco, we were asked if we wanted water. An affirmative answer got us a 1-liter bottle of Fiji - for which we were charged $19. The meal was great, but feeling taken advantage of left a bad taste in my mouth. If diners are already dropping $100+ per person, why does a restaurant feel the need to play these "gotcha" games? If you're gouging tourists, that's one thing. If you're the only upscale place in town, maybe you can get away with it. But when there is plenty of choice among fine dining establishments, I'm unlikely to return to the one that gamed me. Sat Jun 13 08:51:10 -0700 2009 4768819 58743 alanbarnes 2 4769466 you will find many water upsell threads. how about an open bottle already on the table and as soon as you sit "would you like some water?" as server pours. That is a line in the sand auto-off the bill for jfood. Sat Jun 13 09:03:24 -0700 2009 4769447 11290 jfood 3 4769493 I'm wise to the bottle of Pellegrino on the table. But this seemed particularly egregious. First off, it was in SF, where it's technically illegal to serve water unless the customer requests it. Second, the water wasn't on the table, so there was no indication that the server was talking about bottled water. And finally, $25 (after tax and tip) for a bottle of water that's available at any grocery store for $2 is highway robbery, plain and simple. Sat Jun 13 09:19:23 -0700 2009 4769466 58743 alanbarnes 4 4769504 Oh absolutely jfood agrees with your assessment. HATES the bottled water upsell. He drinks San Jfood at home (nice well water) and does not need to spend $10-25 on others. MAJOR pet peeve and significant discussion. Sat Jun 13 09:22:31 -0700 2009 4769493 11290 jfood 2 4769902 Whenever I'm asked if I want water (in the U.S.), I reply, "tapwater, please" to forestall this type of shenanigans. I'm shocked, though, that the lovely La Folie pulled this. Sat Jun 13 12:48:18 -0700 2009 4769447 11995 pikawicca 1 4769721 ... ... ... we were offered (and accepted) an amuse-bouche (although it was an Italian place and they used a different word).................................hsk Maybe you should find out what the Italian word was? That could well be where the problem lies. '-) Sat Jun 13 11:19:06 -0700 2009 4768819 112096 Caroline1 2 4771336 "Un piatto quel costa mólto" Sun Jun 14 07:15:16 -0700 2009 4769721 36661 Sam Fujisaka 3 4771371 So it would seem! Sun Jun 14 07:31:24 -0700 2009 4771336 112096 Caroline1 2 4771348 I've always been under the impression (perhaps mistaken?) that the term is actually supposed to be "amuse-gueule". Sun Jun 14 07:20:38 -0700 2009 4769721 108169 Servorg 3 4771442 that's actually considered the more "vulgar". in french, "guele" is slang, and is closer to the english "maw". technically translates to "animal's mouth". Sun Jun 14 08:10:14 -0700 2009 4771348 30273 hotoynoodle 4 4771448 Thanks. That's what I get for taking HS Spanish instead of French. Quel horreur! Sun Jun 14 08:13:17 -0700 2009 4771442 108169 Servorg 3 4772476 "Amuse-gueule" is the original term; "amuse-bouche" was created later as a restaurant euphemism. But there's really no reason to avoid "amuse-gueule" in polite company, even though "gueule" by itself is kind of slangy. Just like you can say "cul-de-poule" or "cul-de-sac" in front of someone you would never imagine just saying "cul" to. Sun Jun 14 16:33:54 -0700 2009 4771348 149250 DeppityDawg 1 4771419 It's not happened to us- if we are eating at a $$$ place (not often) they bring it out and say something about 'the chef extending a warm welcome' or whatever.... It reminds me of the time I was an upsold moron at a steak house- she offered fresh blue cheese or a sauce on everything (everything- even blue cheese stuffed olives in my martini) and we kept saying yes. At $3x 2 for each 'yes' - it was an easy extra $30 for her. I have only myself to blame. Maybe this is why I hate blue cheese now? Sun Jun 14 07:56:29 -0700 2009 4768819 110426 Boccone Dolce 2 4771668 Hate the waitress! Don't waste the emotion on something as delicious as really good blue cheese! '-) Sun Jun 14 09:45:13 -0700 2009 4771419 112096 Caroline1 1 4772278 The best approach when you encounter upselling like this after the fact is to inform management that, while you paid, it is a practice that leaves a bad taste in the mouth of the customer. It does not amuse my bouche, and makes me reluctant to commend the restaurant to others. You have to do this in a straightforward tone that does not appear to invite a comp or coupon - the point of this is not a negotiation but candid feedback, pure and simple. Sun Jun 14 15:01:27 -0700 2009 4768819 13819 Karl S 2 4772393 This was not an AB -- which is usually delivered without your direct "acceptance". It was something offered (as in "would you like to start with an appetizer tonight?") and by accepting their offer, you agreed to pay for it. Its ALL upselling, subtle or otherwise. It is up to the customer to just say no (thanks). Sun Jun 14 15:55:04 -0700 2009 4772278 102895 Cheflambo 3 4772527 Actually, not everything is upselling. This was upselling. And I did not suggest the customer not pay for it. I suggest the customer provide frank feedback to the management. The customer is entitled to say more than yes or no, right? Sun Jun 14 16:57:14 -0700 2009 4772393 13819 Karl S 4 4772625 "Would you care for..." = upselling in most cases. Let the antennae rise before the anger. Sun Jun 14 17:42:14 -0700 2009 4772527 11290 jfood 5 4772644 We learned this one many, many years ago when my son was asked "would the young gentleman care for some shrimp?" He answered in the affirmative. The table of twenty (eighteen adults and two children) was fully involved in conversation and no one heard the exchange between the waiter and the eight year old. Soon, several large platters of shrimp began to circulate. We all assumed that our host had ordered this and tucked in with gusto. This was upselling of the sneakiest variety and resulted in a $250 charge on the bill. The manager would not budge and if I could remember the name of the restaurant in Virginia Beach, I would post it in a heartbeat. Sun Jun 14 17:50:51 -0700 2009 4772625 15743 Sherri 6 4772658 I would've gone to jail before paying for this outrage. This is criminal. Sun Jun 14 17:55:58 -0700 2009 4772644 11995 pikawicca 6 4774726 That's disgusting. I won't even bring a kid a coke without getting the parents approval, and if I were you I would have been upset if it had only been a couple of shrimp for the boy, let alone platters for the table. Mon Jun 15 12:23:39 -0700 2009 4772644 13011 Missmoo 6 4775414 My dad taught us that we were NOT allowed to order or ask the servers for ANYTHING - all questions for more and our orders went through our dad. If we were ever asked if we wanted another drink or a dessert by a waiter we had to get our dad's attention first and he would make the decision. When I was waitressing and a child asked me for anything I always checked first with the parents. Mon Jun 15 15:48:34 -0700 2009 4772644 22559 smartie 1 4775498 Yes it is, and what you experienced was tacky and lousy. Please name this restaurant so that we can vote with our wallets NOT to experience such low class, slimey upsells. Mon Jun 15 16:11:39 -0700 2009 4768819 54116 gryphonskeeper 2 4775519 i dont think it was that slimey. they were asked. they did not inquire the price. something that will be free will not be asked about Mon Jun 15 16:19:39 -0700 2009 4775498 135229 thew 3 4775558 I guess it's a bit like being asked if we would like coffee at the end of the meal. We all KNOW we have to pay for it. I guess we need to be asked if we would like to 'buy' coffee or in this instance would you like to purchase some meatball apps? So you order a caesar salad and the server says 'would you like chicken on that?' It's not an offer of a freebie cos you know darned well that's an upsell. I feel the OP was duped in this example though. Mon Jun 15 16:31:46 -0700 2009 4775519 22559 smartie 1 4775664 As other posters have said, my experience has been that an amuse is simply brought to the table, with no question from the waiter as to whether we'd like it. If you don't want to eat it, you don't have to. I have seen one restaurant in Seattle with a price for the amuse *if* you order it as part of an ala carte meal. If you order a set menu, it's included in the menu price. Mon Jun 15 17:04:14 -0700 2009 4768819 156153 akq