623779 Sat May 30 13:15:15 -0700 2009 48 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 4728196 Hi Everyone - I have a weird question and so, I turn to Chow. I don't eat a lot of cheese (unless it is in a dish), but as I've gotten older, I've started experimenting with wine and subsequently, cheese. Now, I do like brie cheese quite a bit, but am wondering WHY it is most often served with the waxy stuff still on? I cannot bring myself to eat the wax, so I find myself avoiding brie in public situations. When I see people pop the whole wedge into their mouths, wax and all, I cringe. I frequently chat with some people on a non-food related message board. I posed this question to them, most of them american, and was surprised to find out that it is rarely served this way in the US, the NE states seem to be one exception. ANyone care to enlighten me? Also, how would you feel if you saw somebody eating around the waxy part? weird? rude? I tend to think so, so I just avoid it. At home though, I do what I want with my cheese! ;o) Sat May 30 13:15:16 -0700 2009 219743 perogy 1 4728228 it's not a weird questions, and it's perfectly acceptable NOT to eat the rind. sure, some people may think you're missing the best part, but it's a matter of personal preference. Sat May 30 13:31:08 -0700 2009 4728196 103920 goodhealthgourmet 1 4728235 I'm confused- wax on brie? There is no wax on brie. There's a bloomy rind, but that is not wax. Sat May 30 13:34:28 -0700 2009 4728196 181207 caviar_and_chitlins 2 4728297 Oh stop, you know perogy is talking about the rind. At first, i wasn't crazy about eating it, but now i actually like the rind. I do know people who cut around it, and if that is how you like it, i think it is just fine to do that. Sat May 30 14:05:39 -0700 2009 4728235 157030 iluvtennis 3 4728501 the OP kept referring to wax, I thought perhaps there was some confusion about the cheese- I've seen brie in tins, for instance, but I wouldn't eat it (the cheese or the tin). Better quality, younger soft-ripened cheeses tend to have a softer, more pliable rind. Perhaps the rind that the OP has experience is not in good condition in the first place. I make my rind-eating decisions on the condition of the rind- if it's tough and leathery, no. If it's bloomy and cottony and delicate, then yes. Sat May 30 15:53:04 -0700 2009 4728297 181207 caviar_and_chitlins 4 4728575 Yes, I did mean the rind - sorry for the confusion. Sat May 30 16:39:09 -0700 2009 4728501 219743 perogy 1 4728236 The wheels of brie are small, about 1 kg. and are aged for at least a month. There is no wax added to the surface, but the surrounding air causes a skin to form. Most people eat the skin,, and it is considered gauche to cut it off. Why? The French think this is an expensive luxury cheese, and would never waste any of it. Sat May 30 13:34:30 -0700 2009 4728196 56131 jayt90 2 4728347 Some French eat the rind, some don't. I'd say it's pretty much 50/50. They always eat it with a knife and fork, and I've witnessed many a neat dissection of the rind from the rest. Sat May 30 14:24:48 -0700 2009 4728236 11995 pikawicca 1 4728241 lots of French cheeses have an edible rind, camembert, chaume (though the orange paper is a pain to get off sometimes), brie. When the cheese is fresh there's nothing wrong with it, though I do cut it off if I have let the cheese dry out a bit which is sacriligious I know. Sat May 30 13:37:59 -0700 2009 4728196 22559 smartie 1 4728332 You might try baking the brie and then trying eating it with the rind intact. Try this with nice crisp apple slices and and a good baguette. I used to be the same as you until I was served this at a French-style cafe back in the 80s. After that, I was sold on eating soft cheeses like brie whole. Sat May 30 14:17:00 -0700 2009 4728196 64003 bulavinaka 1 4728382 I'm happy to eat the rind on soft cheeses. My partner isn't. It's a matter of personal preferance. Of course, if you were being served this in a restaurnat in France, you'd have been given a knife and fork to eat it with, so you could have daintily cut the rind off if you wanted. Although as they'd serve it in perfect condition, you might find it too soft/runny to easily cut it off. Sat May 30 14:45:29 -0700 2009 4728196 154102 Harters 1 4728633 I eat the rind. My wife does not, especially if the Brie is runny. Chacun a son goo. Sat May 30 17:16:00 -0700 2009 4728196 221285 therealdoctorlew 2 4728652 "Goo?" That certainly describes a ripe Brie, but... Sat May 30 17:23:59 -0700 2009 4728633 11995 pikawicca 2 4728807 hahaha. I am assuming you mean: Chacun son goût. Sat May 30 18:32:09 -0700 2009 4728633 194657 alixium 3 4729825 Not if the cheese is runny! Sun May 31 08:51:31 -0700 2009 4728807 221285 therealdoctorlew 4 4771065 the real doctor lew, i appreciated your pun! speakin' of goo, i've got to get that brie out of the fridge and eat it! Sun Jun 14 02:08:57 -0700 2009 4729825 105717 alkapal 1 4728720 To answer your question, why is it served with the rind on? After doing a little research, this is what I've found... "Brie cheese ripens from the outside and the rind is the slightly hardened outer skin which has reacted with the molds and bacteria in the air. In a true brie, the rind is really tasty, if you are accustomed to eating very flavorful cheeses, although it can be overpowering if you only eat mild cheese. I've eaten French brie and can attest to this personally. However, in the US, brie has to be made with pasturized milk, which tends to keep the rind less flavorful." So, basically, if you get the opportunity to consume brie in France (made with unpasteurized milk I am assuming), do so, and see how you feel about the rind. I eat the rind sometimes, and sometimes I do not. It moreso depends on my mood. I don't think that anyone would consider you rude if you did this in a public area. Simply explain that you do not find the plain taste of the rind to be appealing, and that you feel that its waxy texture detracts from the excellence of the cheese (basically BS your way out of it haha). It is unlikely that it will be necessary though, as most people are not rude enough to dig at your personal eating habits. Information borrowed from: http://askville.amazon.com/rind-brie-cheese/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=535728 Sat May 30 17:53:01 -0700 2009 4728196 114194 milkyway4679 2 4733747 Don't know why anyone should be expected to explain what they do/do not eat. It's no one's business. Mon Jun 01 16:19:04 -0700 2009 4728720 11995 pikawicca 2 4786690 <<"Brie cheese ripens from the outside and the rind is the slightly hardened outer skin which has reacted with the molds and bacteria in the air. In a true brie, the rind is really tasty, if you are accustomed to eating very flavorful cheeses, although it can be overpowering if you only eat mild cheese. I've eaten French brie and can attest to this personally. However, in the US, brie has to be made with pasturized milk, which tends to keep the rind less flavorful.">> That's baloney. I followed your link to the next and the next, and it's just plain wrong. Brie cheese doesn't ripen from the outside in. Brie cheese is made with two separate "molds" -- one that forms the rind, and one that makes the cheese on the inside. Geotrichum candidum is a fungus that is mechanically sprayed on the outside of the cheese. It forms the rind. When young, the rind tastes soapy, sharp and acrid. It looks white and fluffly. As it ages, the rind becomes flatter and ivory colored, and develops beige cracks. The taste changes too, then, and the rind tastes more like the interior of the cheese. The interior of the cheese is made by Penicillium camemberti, a mold that also makes Camembert cheese. It also changes flavor and form as it ages, going from a firm set solid to a liquidy flavorful goo. If the cheese looks like it's deflated a bit, it's ready. But too much aging or lack of proper storage and the cheese will smell like ammonia. So if you don't like the rind, chances are the Brie is not yet ripe. If the rind is white and fluffy, and if the cheese is firm and not oozing, it's not ready. Wait for the cheese to age, and re-try the rind. It won't taste acrid or sharp or like soap then. It's a question of age. Fri Jun 19 03:31:20 -0700 2009 4728720 18222 maria lorraine 3 4788570 maria, Usually I dig your science, but you've got a couple of things in your statement that are not completely correct. Bries are surface ripened, and so indeed ripen from the outside in, because of the treatment to the rind, which contribute to the flavor of the interior cheese as well as the texture of both rind and cheese. What is sprayed onto these surface-ripened cheeses used to be p. camemberti, but as this mold tends to turn a grayish color, more commonly these days p. candidum is used for the white color. The geotrichum is often used in a ratio with the p. candidum to help the rind adhere to the cheese. Different cheesemakers use different ratios to achieve the desired result. Fri Jun 19 15:11:50 -0700 2009 4786690 181207 caviar_and_chitlins 4 4789238 C&C, I've left messages for a couple of cheese microbiologists to steer me in the right direction. While I'm waiting to hear back from them, I've been reading about the evolution of the "molds" used to make Brie, changing from penicillium camemberti and oidium lactis, to penicillium caseicolum and geotrichum candidum. I'll report back when I learn more and get some sort of definitive answer. Fri Jun 19 20:59:47 -0700 2009 4788570 18222 maria lorraine 4 4813463 C&C and milkyway4679, Earlier, I commented on this passage: <<<"Brie cheese ripens from the outside and the rind is the slightly hardened outer skin which has reacted with the molds and bacteria in the air. In a true brie, the rind is really tasty, if you are accustomed to eating very flavorful cheeses, although it can be overpowering if you only eat mild cheese. I've eaten French brie and can attest to this personally. However, in the US, brie has to be made with pasturized milk, which tends to keep the rind less flavorful.">>> I've yet to speak with the second microbiologist I've called, but I wanted to explain more clearly where I was coming from when I wrote that there were inaccuracies in this passage. From talking to cheesemakers and doing a little scientific reading, my understanding is that there are two separate ripening actions in Brie cheese -- one on the outside with the rind, and one on the inside with the cheese itself or the paste. The cheese interior -- the paste -- ripens on its own usually with p. camemberti. The rind of the cheese ripens using fungi that, over time, penetrate into the interior of the cheese. So to call brie cheese surface-ripened isn't quite accurate. Yes, the surface rind does ripen, and then invades the interior of the cheese. But the interior of the cheese is being ripened all along separately. I've also read that when the surface fungi's mycelium penetrate to the deep interior of the cheese, they stop the ripening action of the cheese paste. There are really four different styles of Brie cheese: the high-quality French exported Brie, the lower-quality exported Brie, the Brie made here in the US in a true French style, and that made in an industrial style. Most of the exported French Brie is made differently from the Brie that is not exported. Some of the higher-quality stuff gets here to the US, though. In the lower-quality stuff, different "molds" are used that create a firmer rind and firmer cheese. One cheese microbiologist, Neville McNaughton, calls this sturdy style "the Havarti of Brie." The higher-quality exported Brie tastes like the real deal -- the cheese gets runny and gooey, the shape collapses, the rind changes color and becomes mellow in flavor. A little more per pound, but the flavor is worth it, IMO. McNaughton went on to say that the "molds" used in the higher-quality US-made Brie actually produce a Brie that is more French in style than most of the imported French Brie. The industrially made US Brie looks, tastes, and smells like the exported "Havarti" French Brie. As to the rind tasting yucky: Both the industrially made US Brie and the lower-quality exported French Brie will taste and look much the same. The rind never loses its acrid, akaline, soapy quality, and the cheese paste never seems to get runny. The cheese doesn't seem to age in the same way over time. It may be this type of Brie whose rind Perogy, our OP, has had and doesn't like. But the rind any *young* Brie of any style will also have that acrid, akaline, soapy quality. So the guideline for our OP is, I guess, buy a high-quality US or French-made Brie, and avoid the Brie that looks sturdy -- like a slice of a tart -- with a pasty white rind. Additionally, make sure the Brie isn't young. Work with a cheese counter person or a cheesemonger, and ask for tiny tastes of different good-quality Bries that are *ready.* When I talk to the second microbiologist, I'll write an update and offer some scientific citations if I can. A quick look at recent microbiology articles state a mix of surface fungi, and the p. camemberti on both on the surface and in the paste. Sun Jun 28 15:50:03 -0700 2009 4788570 18222 maria lorraine 5 4817204 thanks maria lorraine, that's a good report. Tue Jun 30 03:47:31 -0700 2009 4813463 105717 alkapal 2 4788649 Most French Brie is made from pasteurized milk now, according to EU guidelines. Some is shipped to North America, and can easily be compared to Quebec or American Brie from pasteurized milk. Fri Jun 19 15:47:21 -0700 2009 4728720 56131 jayt90 1 4730883 Gotta agree with everyone here- not everyone likes the rind. When eating brie I always try some of the rind first. If it's good, I'll eat it. If not, I don't eat it. And if you don't like the rind, look in the cheese section of your supermarket for a brie spread. Sun May 31 17:07:05 -0700 2009 4728196 154024 nimeye 2 4731041 Brie spread! OMG! Sun May 31 18:23:48 -0700 2009 4730883 56131 jayt90 3 4733648 I've tried it, and it's not half bad. I still greatly prefer the real thing, though. Mon Jun 01 15:38:15 -0700 2009 4731041 154024 nimeye 1 4742266 I'm a fence-sitter when it comes to eating the rind. I like a bit of rind, but not a lot, so what I tend to do, if I'm just eating brie as brie, and not in a sandwich or some other preparation, is leave the top and bottom on, and cut the rind off the edges. Then I get some rind, but not a lot. If it's going in a sandwich, the rind can stay, since it's not such a powerful force. Thu Jun 04 10:02:07 -0700 2009 4728196 10021 Jacquilynne 1 4771067 during college, we had a roommate who came home drunk one night and ate the cut-off brie rinds that we had lazily left on a plate in the living room. after that, we dubbed her "annie of the cheese rinds"! ;-)). Sun Jun 14 02:12:05 -0700 2009 4728196 105717 alkapal 1 4771068 perogy: here's an idea for a new flavor you might want to try (decadent and delicious): place whole small brie round on baking sheet, add a tablespoon of butter and a 1/4 cup sliced almonds on top, put in 300 degree (F) oven till brie softens, butter melts, almonds toast. remove, cut and smear on a great crusty french baguette. with a little light chardonnay or fumé blanc, this is a heavenly meal. Sun Jun 14 02:18:00 -0700 2009 4728196 105717 alkapal 1 4771271 Had some friends over for cocktails and served brie, shrimp, etc. They had their 2 year old with them. I don't eat the rind of brie so I took some brie and put the rind in the bowl with the shrimp tails. Next thing I know his Mother is asking him what he's eating - you guessed it my brie rind lol!!! Guess he'll always like it. I'm in Aruba and didn't see where it came from as DH bought it. Sun Jun 14 06:41:40 -0700 2009 4728196 10581 Linda VH 1 4771311 I really shouldn't read food posts before breakfast. Now I'm craving Brie, Cambozola, Brillat Savarin, Sainte Maure...generally with the rind on (better quality rinds are phenomenal; many of the cheaper versions I've tried have a rubbery rind which even searing and smashing into a toasted baguette with lots of Maille and slices of fresh tomatoes can't help much). Sun Jun 14 07:01:39 -0700 2009 4728196 224238 Caralien 2 4771323 i'm pretty happy with the trader joe's bries -- there are several sources, and in varying degrees of richness. sometimes i actually prefer the double creme to the triple creme, but i think i've tried them all. i like to eat it, too, on their "everything" crisps. also, their water crackers are SO much cheaper than carr's! Sun Jun 14 07:06:33 -0700 2009 4771311 105717 alkapal 3 4817538 LOVE TJ's double creme brie on a TJ's pepper & poppy seed water cracker. Gooey creamy crispiness at a fair price! "Hey kids, get your shoes, we're going to Trader Joes". :) Tue Jun 30 06:55:34 -0700 2009 4771323 71241 lynnlato 2 4771480 We just finished a wheel of Cowgirl Creamery's Mt. Tam. The rind had a nice mushroom flavor. I'm regretting having finished it after reading your post - it would have been great with a nice warm batard and some fruit for breakfast... :( Sun Jun 14 08:28:53 -0700 2009 4771311 64003 bulavinaka 2 4787238 Yeah, I'm dreaming of a nice Explorateur, and it's 8 AM and I have to go to work and there is no Explorateur in my immediate future. Fri Jun 19 08:08:22 -0700 2009 4771311 10811 Das Ubergeek 3 4787321 I'm getting fat just thinking of this notion... :) Fri Jun 19 08:30:33 -0700 2009 4787238 64003 bulavinaka 1 4771434 I only like a tiny bit of brie with rind, I won't eat very much brie to begin with because the goozy texture gets to me after a short time. My husband won't eat ANY of the rind and flips out when he sees me eating it because in his head it's garbage. Sun Jun 14 08:05:58 -0700 2009 4728196 110426 Boccone Dolce 1 4772111 it's not wax, it's rind (mold) i never thought about not eating it. my mom fed me ripe brie and camembert and stilton and all those things when i was tiny, so it's perfectly acceptable to me. my husband, who was brought up on roast beef and taters, doesn't feel the same way. to each his own! eat what you like. Sun Jun 14 13:33:48 -0700 2009 4728196 230242 madkittybadkitty 1 4772959 Met brother's girlfriend for the first time last night, who was scooping the soft part out of the St Andre and leaving the rind. I almost made a snarky comment but decided to be more gracious and went for the rind myself. So, rind-eaters may be amused that you haven't learned to like it yet, but not eating it is not any more rude than someone else commenting on you not eating it. Now that you are enjoying experimenting with cheese, start trying a little of the rind (safely, in the privacy of your own home). Give it a few tries and you may learn to like it. Sun Jun 14 20:25:41 -0700 2009 4728196 13150 babette feasts 2 4772986 Our kids are just starting to appreciate the rind on soft cheeses - they always thought it was inedible and that we were gross for eating the "spoiled" part until I placed a small piece on a nice warm slice of baguette, drizzled a little bit of honey on it, and told them to close their eyes and open their mouthes. I might have inadvertently created some serious competition for the part that I used to consider mostly mine... Sun Jun 14 20:39:59 -0700 2009 4772959 64003 bulavinaka 1 4790308 I've never been a fan of the rind of Brie, and so usually cut it off. For those like me I discovered D'Affenois cheese, which looks like brie, has a more buttery inside than brie, and has a very mild flavored rind, which I gobble up. D'Affenois cheese has solved all my brie worries! Sat Jun 20 11:20:43 -0700 2009 4728196 203280 kimfair1 2 4791396 Fromager d'Affinois (froh-mah-'zhay dah-fee-'nwah) is a double-cream cheese (Brie is either single-cream [up to 60% butterfat], double-cream (60-75% butterfat] or triple-cream [over 75% butterfat]) and it is made much quicker than Brie because the water is removed from the cheese instead of having the whey drain away. It's a very modern cheese in that the process required to make it has only existed for the last thirty years or so. The fact that it can be made in 15 days instead of 60 also means that the rind is not as, hm, pungent as on a Brie. If you like the buttery-ness of Fromager d'Affinois you should seek out Brillat-Savarin, which is a triple-cream cheese and is quite possibly the richest cheese on earth, or Explorateur, which is a close, close second. Sat Jun 20 20:55:51 -0700 2009 4790308 10811 Das Ubergeek 2 4994828 Yes, exactly. It's the only kind of brie I'll have now. Mon Aug 31 21:40:34 -0700 2009 4790308 16221 repartee 3 4997759 D'Affinois is ooey-gooey good. Tue Sep 01 19:57:13 -0700 2009 4994828 18222 maria lorraine 1 4791426 "wondering WHY it is most often served with the waxy stuff still on? ... I frequently chat with some people on a non-food related message board. I posed this question to them, most of them american, and was surprised to find out that it is rarely served this way in the US, the NE states seem to be one exception." Huh? I've never seen brie cheese served without the rind. Maybe you said "wax" on the other board? I was like you when I was younger, before I developed a taste for cheese (I didn't like blue cheese then, either). It looked inedible (like the wax on gouda) so I always cut around it, but when I found out it was OK to eat, I tried it and it was fine. I think most people who like cheese eat the rind, but if you don't like it you shouldn't feel obligated to eat it. In a cocktail-party type public situation you may find it difficult to nibble around the rind gracefully, but I wouldn't find it weird or rude. Sat Jun 20 21:22:26 -0700 2009 4728196 69044 hsk 2 4815330 I'm not fond of brie rind -- the texture more than the taste. It's perfectly acceptable to cut yourself a piece and then cut off the rind and leave it on your plate. What's not acceptible is to scoop out the "paste" and leave hollow rind on the platter (unless it's specifically being served that way). Mon Jun 29 11:22:53 -0700 2009 4791426 10159 Ruth Lafler 3 4815500 Bingo. You must take the rind with your portion. It is also extraordinarily bad form to take a piece from the center without also taking the rind of the outer edge. I should add that I've never seen Brie served sans rind. And if it's baked in pastry, you're certainly eating the rind unless you froze (and de-natured) the round and removed the rind from a semi-frozen round. Mon Jun 29 12:09:58 -0700 2009 4815330 13819 Karl S 1 4817440 I wish there was some way I could buy just the ring. I think it's the best part! Tue Jun 30 06:18:11 -0700 2009 4728196 10832 Humbucker