621735 Thu May 21 19:05:49 -0700 2009 30 41 Cookware 0 4705267 All, Any advice? I know that our little economic hiccup has a lot of people feeling like they really need to learn to cook, or learn to be better cooks, or just cook a whole lot more than they have in the past. And isn't that fabulous? In the spirit of hopefully helping to keep the cost of doing that down (hopefully an encouragement to those who have under-equipped/badly equipped kitchens and are not enjoying their cheap knives and thin pots and pans), I'm looking for any advice you have on how to buy/what to buy. Ideally, I'm not aiming so much for Williams-Sonoma vs. Amazon. More for what's good (and usually inexpensive) on sites like eBay, what is worth lugging home from tag or estate sales and what, finally, it's just not wise to scrimp on. I'm suspecting you all will say "cuisinarts... you can pick up at tag sales. Old cast iron: fabulous, and much cheaper than Le Creuset! Your chef's knife... prepare to spend a little!" In any case, examples, suggestions, ideas: all welcome. Much obliged, everyone! Thu May 21 19:05:49 -0700 2009 78679 linengirl 1 4705306 I've been finding some nice deals on eBay for certain items. Older Sabatier carbon steel knives other than chef's knives, which are in higher demand, tend to be really good deals, if you're looking to expand your knife collection. Pay close attention to the shape of the knife in the pictures to be sure it won't need major reshaping, and figure that it will need to be sharpened professionally unless it comes from one of the dealers who know what they're doing, or you happen to be good at that yourself. I once bought a whole set of these knives at a stoop sale (the Brooklyn version of a garage sale) for $40, gave an 8" chef's to my father, used the 10" chef's for a few years until I decided it was too light for my taste and sold it for around $85 on eBay, and I'm still using several others and a knife block from this set. Used Sitram Catering pieces tend to be really cheap on eBay, when they show up, because most people don't know what it is--first class French stainless steel commercial cookware with heavy copper bottoms. I picked up a second hand 34cm skillet not long ago for around $36--normally about a $200 item new. Don't worry about the cosmetics. These pans can take a lot of abuse and can still sit perfectly flat and the inside can just about always be cleaned to near new condition. Old cast iron--very cheap at garage sales, but Griswold pieces attract collectors on eBay and often go for outrageous prices. Then if you find yourself accumulating lots of used pots and pans, look for a Cuisinart universal lid (buy it new; it's cheap). There are a few other universal lids out there, but they tend to have the knob in the center, and on many pots and pans, they won't fit right, because the handle of the pan gets in the way. The Cuisinart lid is eccentric and has a cutout for the handle, so it will really fit on a wide variety of pots and pans up to 12 inches in diameter. Thu May 21 19:27:30 -0700 2009 4705267 198087 David A. Goldfarb 2 4705368 David A. Goldfarb: "Old cast iron--very cheap at garage sales, but Griswold pieces attract collectors on eBay and often go for outrageous prices." True, but not universally true; in other words, the operative word in your caution is "often." The collectors want some very specific pieces: "slant logo," for instance. The wonderful thing about eBay is that if the price seems to be going through the roof, you are not committed to continue bidding. With a little patience, anyone should be able to purchase excellent quality Griswold from eBay sellers for under $20, plus shipping. Other cast iron worth seeking out: Descoware enameled cast iron often shows up, and it is excellent, easily the equal of Le Creuset. The Michael Lax-designed Copco enameled cast iron, also, shows up often on eBay, and is even more finely finished than Le Creuset. Thu May 21 19:54:09 -0700 2009 4705306 278068 Politeness 3 4705690 Thanks for the cast iron tips. We had some of those Copco pieces in the 1970s growing up. I have a vague memory of a bright yellow squarish covered casserole. Alas, I think my parents must have sold them at a house sale when we moved once. Thu May 21 23:24:13 -0700 2009 4705368 198087 David A. Goldfarb 3 4848173 Well, I finally got the Griswold #9 cast iron skillet of my dreams, and it didn't come from eBay or a thrift shop, but from my father who got it from his mother, and I still remember my grandmother using that pan quite regularly. She may have had a larger one too, but that may just be my childhood sense of how big things were sticking in my mind. Alas, my father has a neuromuscular condition that's made him too weak to cook anymore, so it's my turn to keep the fire going. My family and my sister's family were just out at my parents' place for a visit, and I made scrambled eggs for the group one morning, and that pan's as slick as ever. Fri Jul 10 19:49:57 -0700 2009 4705368 198087 David A. Goldfarb 4 4852490 Congratulations. May you use it well for many years. Sun Jul 12 20:45:39 -0700 2009 4848173 134265 sueatmo 5 4852598 Thanks! Using it a bit more, I'm beginning to understand why some people get so obsessed with these things. Sun Jul 12 21:42:37 -0700 2009 4852490 198087 David A. Goldfarb 1 4705384 I do this kind of thing myself and I agree - some things are fabulous second-hand, and some, you just want new. I started a thread about this myself awhile back; here's the link: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/510895 Thu May 21 20:00:30 -0700 2009 4705267 42513 Mawrter 1 4705411 Like Mr Goldfarb, I shop ebay (wonder if we're bidding against each other). There are some great deals on pots and pans (and you're being a good green recycler). It's also an easy place to find a classic (the best) KA. I wouldn't buy any cast iron from ebay or elsewhere online - the shipping cost is just unreasonable - go to thrift store (why are people throwing out such great pans). Another place where I can occasionally find good prices on kitchenware is at TJ's. The pots and pans are typically half retail. They tend to be scratched but consider them 'broken in' instead (it's like getting the first scratch on a new car - you stop worrying about it). Other than ebay, knives often be found at knife seller/sharpener shops or authorized knife repairers. They will often just replace a customer's knife if there's a complaint and then resharpen the old and sell it. There can be some good deals on beater knives. After thinking about it a bit, the only thing I can think of to buy new is a microplane and a pepper mill (with one or two exceptions). Thu May 21 20:17:45 -0700 2009 4705267 155034 alwayscooking 1 4705683 I think the best bargain I've ever found was several years ago in the clearance section at Bed, Bath, and Beyond. The stock clerk was putting out some new items including two Mauviel 2.5mm copper/stainless-lined 9.5" Windsor (evasee) saucepans with cast iron handles for $19.96 each. I asked the clerk if that was really the price, and he confirmed that it wasn't a mistake. They looked like they had a couple of scratches on the bottom, as if they'd been used once for a cooking demo, but no different than they would look if I had used them once on my own stove. Those sell for about $400 each today. I kept one for myself and sent one to my father. I've always checked the clearance section at BB&B ever since, but haven't found anything quite so generous. Thu May 21 23:16:17 -0700 2009 4705267 198087 David A. Goldfarb 2 4709770 has BB&B ever carried Mauviel? I'm tempted to think some poor associate was forced to return something by a demanding customer... Mind if I get a peak at the Windsor? For $20, I gotta see this. Edit: Huh, I just did a google and there they are on their website... crazy stuff o.O Is mauviel becoming the all-clad of the copper world? Sat May 23 18:10:31 -0700 2009 4705683 156499 mateo21 3 4709795 They used to. I found these about seven or eight years ago. I own several Mauviel copper pieces and have shopped around a fair amount for such things, so I have no doubt about what it is. This was before Mauviel started stamping their own logo on their cookware, but the weight, dimensions, shape, shape of the handle, and "Made in France" stamp are all as they should be. Quick snapshot attached. Sat May 23 18:26:34 -0700 2009 4709770 198087 David A. Goldfarb 1 4709759 I have been turned onto cast iron by reading Chowhound. I've gathered a small set of nice second hand cast iron skillets which I am finding useful. Another thing you might find useful is an old fashioned rolling pin. You should be able to get a 50s era pin if you look. The older ones are made of solid wood. I like the kind that spin freely on a pin between the handles, not the really old one-piece ones. I also use a pastry cutter I bought second hand ages ago. And I picked up everything I needed for my first foray into canning many years ago at a garage sale. I have the best potato masher--solid one-piece shaped steel. I bought it a flea market years and years ago. I guess I would recommend being on the lookout for good serviceable cooking tools at flea markets, etc. Sat May 23 18:03:36 -0700 2009 4705267 134265 sueatmo 1 4709763 I would mention one other thing. I have picked up almost all my new pans and knives by peiodically visiting Home Goods or similar stores. In the last 2 years or so I have upgraded my knives quite a bit as I have found heavily discounted Henckels knives there. My chef's knife is a twin 4 star which I love to use. Sat May 23 18:07:33 -0700 2009 4705267 134265 sueatmo 1 4710078 I shop at thrift stores, yard sales, etcetera a lot so naturally I buy a lot of my kitchen gear there as well. I also buy most of my knives via eBay - find a great tip below... I think you are right about the cast iron idea - something like that lasts more or less forever, yet people still buy new ones, so it shows up used a lot. I am sure there are tricks, but basically I just look for ones that I like the feel and weight of and that still have a decent surface on them - and then remember that you will probably be re-seasoning them anyway. Really it could be argued that an old pan is better than new! It is harder, but possible to find really amazing old knives used. Some of my favorites have wood handles and blades that rust, but they cut SO well. Surface rust will wash right off and then remember to wipe them dry after washing. (There may be more to this, like a way to keep the rust off better, but I am content with my method.) The very best tip I can give is to use America's Test Kitchen product reviews at www.americastestkitchen.com under Equipment Corner. (It is the same people who make the PBS show of the same name and Cook's Illustrated magazine.) Take their reviews to make your eBay purchases and I predict you will be very happy. You need an account, but there are a few options - You can get a free acount just like here and view everything from the current season. Or you can subscribe for a year for $35 and get access to everything. Or, you can get a free two week trial to check it out - and maybe go read the reviews of everything you are interested in buying in the near future. Looking right now at their serrated knife reviews from this season the top 2 are $86 and $25 - a huge difference. Both got the same rating, so I would say go for the cheap one! I really think that this a great resource and worth the money. I haven't been disapointed in a product I have bought based on their reviews and as you can see from the knife example above you can save quite a bundle. In general I have been very happy with Forschner Victorinox knives, which rate well with ATK. From there go buy the knives of your choice on eBay or your choice of stores. I like having them just show up at my house! Good luck shopping! Sat May 23 21:44:22 -0700 2009 4705267 156660 guate 1 4713869 Thanks so much, everyone! These are fabulous posts. David, your Sabatier suggestion sent me scurrying to my ebay homepage. I have a good, workmanlike set of Wusthoff's (sp?), but remember that my parents' knife block has an old Sabatier in it that I just ... COVET. Yes, it's blackened and ugly, but it takes such a great edge. It's the knife I always reach for in my mom's kitchen. And I never thought to try to find one for myself! Mawrter, I LOVE your link. Thank you, thank you! Mon May 25 17:29:10 -0700 2009 4705267 78679 linengirl 2 4716544 Oh, you're so welcome! I don't get to prowl through junk as often as I'd like, so when I do, I always wonder if I'm being a shrewd and eco-conscious shopper or just a big bozo throwing away money on other people' crap. Tue May 26 15:00:19 -0700 2009 4713869 42513 Mawrter 1 4715388 Restaurant supply stores can be a great resourse. My $5.00 sheet pan is probabaly getting the most use in my ktichen now. I'm a great descoware fan. I have 2 pieces of my mothers and 50 years later they are still fabulous (perhaps even better than LC!) Tue May 26 09:42:16 -0700 2009 4705267 117271 Stuffed Monkey 2 4723348 Joyous! I had forgotten all about that resource. Thanks so much, Monkey! And I know nothing at all about descoware. Will inspect forthwith... Thu May 28 16:49:26 -0700 2009 4715388 78679 linengirl 3 4723502 linengirl: The late Julia Child used and loved Descoware, which was made in Belgium. The company was named after its Connecticut-headquartered North American importer, the Charles E. Sanford Corporation, IIRC. The Belgian company was purchased and liquidated by LeCreuset some years back, but there is a lot of Descoware in good condition that shows up on eBay. Thu May 28 17:46:33 -0700 2009 4723348 278068 Politeness 4 4729569 I did not know this. How great! I'm going to go look... Thanks P! Sun May 31 07:07:00 -0700 2009 4723502 78679 linengirl 5 4729958 linengirl, to preserve my credibility, and because it is too late to edit my earlier entry, I must point out that the importer was D.E. Sanford, no "Charles" about it (after all, the company was not called "Chescoware"). Ms. Child apparently liked flame orange colored Descoware, shown here: http://americanhistory.si.edu/kitchen/tools01_01_l.htm Sun May 31 09:59:20 -0700 2009 4729569 278068 Politeness 6 4743860 Much obliged, P! And it is beautiful stuff... Thu Jun 04 19:45:44 -0700 2009 4729958 78679 linengirl 1 4716879 I think I've bought all my good knives on ebay. If you have a good knife store in your area, go and check some knives out and hold them. Some stores might even let you try them. Once you've determined what feels good in your hand, do some shopping on ebay based on your research. I'd recommend checking out forschner chef's knives on ebay if you like the way they feel. I've gotten an 8- and a 9- inch chef's for around $25. They make a nice santoku too. I've bought lots of sitram on ebay too, great stuff, but I havent seen much on there lately. Sometimes you can even buy all clad for a good price, but not that often. The most important thing, I think, is to have good communication with the seller. If you find some old Sabs, don't be thrown off if they look a little dark, but make sure the blades are straight Tue May 26 17:10:13 -0700 2009 4705267 74192 chuckl 1 4724856 I would steer clear of non-stick at thrift stores and yard sales. IIRC, the teflon (and similar) coatings break down if they're overheated and start giving off toxic fumes. After a single overheating session, it's all downhill for the pan. Fri May 29 08:18:18 -0700 2009 4705267 13700 ricepad 2 4726858 I agree with ricepad. For non-stick buy new and use at low heat. Chuckl has a good point about handling knives to see how they fit in your hand. I like to do that myself with pans. You can just feel the balance of the pan, if the handle hurts to grasp or if the pan it too light or heavy. Handling the good stuff will help you know what you like when you see used stuff. You'll know if it is good enough for you. Fri May 29 19:24:56 -0700 2009 4724856 134265 sueatmo 2 4848461 There's an article about this on AlterNet today July 10---toxicity of non-stick pans. Fri Jul 10 23:41:55 -0700 2009 4724856 15521 Querencia 3 4852491 If you have ever gotton a non stick pan really hot, you will never forget the smell. It can't be good for you. Sun Jul 12 20:46:34 -0700 2009 4848461 134265 sueatmo 1 4848471 Estate sales are ace. I once bought four Henckels knives for a dollar apiece. Be careful of anything ceramic that you might want to put in the microwave as older pieces sometimes have a design made with metal-containing paint that will flame up. Also, check all the kitchen drawers for 100% linen dishtowels, very common back in the day. Fri Jul 10 23:51:33 -0700 2009 4705267 15521 Querencia 1 4849895 At resale shops, ask about the knifes- some are smart enough to keep them at the counter instead of putting them out on the general shelves. I found that out at one local place & was shown to 2 extremely large boxes behind the counter. With nothing better to do, I started going through them, carefully, sorting out what I might want to try or add to my collection. The best part was when I finally asked the price & the clerk said its usually 59cents each, but we'll give you a good deal...and they did, I bought 12+ for 25cents each. Ebay can still surprise you, especially if you really learn the product you're looking for. I came across my VitaMix 5000 blender for $10 on ebay because the seller didn't list it correctly. Considering the same age VitaMix 5000 go for $250-300+ on ebay, it was a major bargain. Sat Jul 11 17:21:56 -0700 2009 4705267 117958 anniemax 1 4850011 Considering that Le Creuset has a lifetime guarantee, you can't go wrong buying the cast iron/porcelain pieces at yard sales. I think the Copco look nice, but aren't thick enough. Same with vintage Dansk. Sat Jul 11 18:15:15 -0700 2009 4705267 204226 Ideefixed