Why won't some people use a meat thermometer?

[c oliver]

We went to a friend's for dinner last night and yet again had painfully overcooked meat. That's how it turns out 99.9% of the time; the other 0.01% it's raw and has to be cooked longer. We've been eating at each other's homes for a dozen years. I say things like "the most indispensable tool in my kitchen is probably my meat thermometer." She said last night "oh, I just do it by instinct." Well, her "instinct" is WRONG!!! This is someone who has a big kitchen and has any "toys" that she wants so we can eliminate those as reasons. I'm sure there are professionals out there who can operate without one but I think most of us don't have the experience and it certainly isn't instinct :( At this point I don't think I can even buy her one as a gift since she clearly doesn't think she needs it. And except for that one raw piece of meat, I don't think she even knows that it's overcooked. I'm not asking for a solution because I don't think there is one. I will continue to try to *lead by example*. I just needed to vent. Thanks for your ears, er, eyes.
PS: Oh, wait, we're in the processing of renting out a house and I can say that I have an extra. Maybe she'd try it then. I love her dearly but she is a bit hidebound :)

[duck833]

Buy your friend a Thermapen as a gift. I have gifted many of them including the chef and grill guy at our club. I was tired of getting overcooked fillets and gave the guy a great insta-read thermapen. They actually did not take offense and appreciated it. Perfect steaks from then on. I could not grill great meat without one.

[c oliver]

Well, if you could that, then I can do this :) Thanks.

[SQHD]

Sounds like a lofty and elite club where they don't even employ great chefs OR supply them with the proper tools.

The only problem with buying everyone a Thermapen is that they run about $80 to $90.

[scubadoo97]

Chearper ones are available that are pretty acurate and fast. The friends may not take it as a gift of goodwill.

FWIW, I have a Thermapen and love it.

[kchurchill5]

I would be embarassed to tell anyone what I paid, maybe 7 dollars if that. I normally don't use as I mentioned below for steaks or individual meats but for whole tenderloins, turkey roasts, etc, YES. It was one Sunday, company over and making a standing rib. My thermometer I couldn't find, my ex, husband at the time ran to target, just 1 mi away and picked up the cheapest one. It must be 8 probably more like 10 years later. It is perfect. Always accurate, on target, easy, simple to use. What more could I want. I wouldn't trade it for anything. I also mentioned I was given a really nice one and it just never to me was as accurate. I think I just threw it in the trash. I still love my little cheapo one which works great.

I'm sure there are many good brands out there, but I think if anyone ever was to spend 80 or 90 dollars on a thermometer for me when my 7 dollar one works fine ... they should be committed :)

[duck833]

I guess I am a repeat offender, I have 3-4 of them. When you are checking brisket or butts in the middle of the night, and half drunk you need large digital readouts and the ability to get it quick. Also when I am doing steaks over a blazing bed of coals I don't want my hand to spend any more time there than necessary.

Good toys are not cheap but pay for themselves!

[kchurchill5]

Never check individual steaks, ribs, chops, etc ... and definitely never check birsket or butts in the middle of the night so I guess I'm safe. Just tenderloins and roasts, turkey, etc on the grill and in the oven mostly.

[scubadoo97]

Yeah I've had many cheap ones and can cook a steak or chicken breast by feel most of the times but it's nice reassurance that the chicken breast is at 165 to 170 when I comes out of the pan. I can now cook tenderloins for the family and have each one come off exactly how everyone likes it. They all like them different.

[Soop]

Perhaps she likes meat like that? If it's a steak say, some people are squeamish about anything under well-done.
I don't use one, because I consider it akin to using stabalisers on a bike.

However, that good a friend, I'd just tell them.

[c oliver]

No, she loves rare meat and consumes it with relish at our house.

I'm impressed that you can cook roasts to whatever amount of doneness - short of well done :) - without a thermometer. I only started cooking rib roasts (rare) after I got one.

[Soop]

Ah. Well, an admission; The thing I normally roast is chicken, and I always ask my GF how long it needs to go in for. Always comes out great. The only thing we overcooked was a late-night beef joint we forgot about, but it was still nice. Could have used gravy.

This is the thing though, I rarely cook anything that big, and I will usually consult a recipe the first time I cook it.

But anything like pork chops, steaks etc, yeah I'm fine with.

[Sherri]

If the thermometer gifting doesn't work (she "forgets" to use it or loses it, etc), teach her The Hand method of judging doneness. We always have our hands with us, so there really is no reason to use the "oh, I just do it by instinct" reasoning. Until her instinct is replaced with experience, this is a pretty foolproof method.

1. Press the very soft area between your thumb and first finger - this is what rare meat feels like.
2. Press thesoft pad at the base of your thumb - this approximates medium - medium rare meat.
3. Press the middle of your palm - this is well-done meat.

Good luck with this. There's almost nothing more maddening than to watch someone destroy a lovely piece of good meat by overcooking.

[Soop]

Oh yeah! I know that one, but I heard another one at this faire I went to from a chef:

touch the tip of your thumb with your index finger and feel the base of your thumb = rare
touch the middle finger and feel the base of your thumb = medium
touch the next finger and feel the base of your thumb = well done

I presume the little finger is overcooked.

[Zeldog]

I just tested 4 person's hands and found that 3 of our thumb bases are rare and one is medium. I also found my left palm is indeed well done, but my right is overcooked.

[c oliver]

As the OP, I feel it's my right to ask: what HAVE you been doing with that right hand?!?

[kchurchill5]

I have never used a thermometer for filets or for single servings of steak, pork chops. But I love my for rack of lamb, pork tenderloins, prime rib, crown roasts, tenderloin roasts.

The last time I cooked for friends I was making roasted potatoes in a foil pouch, stuffed bread in foil, asparagus in a foil pouch, 2 tenderloins completely different sizes and a small tenderloin. I LOVED my thermometer. I was so busy with the pouches and not burning the bread that the thermometer was key. For steaks individual or chops, NEVER.

However for those who have difficulty judging doneness. Yes by all means use a thermometer. Thick cuts to me are so much easier to use the thermometer. Rack of lamb making this week is key medium rare so my thermometer will be used.

I got a very inexpensive one at Target I think and it going on 8-10 yrs old. Never failed me. My friend bought me an expensive one which I put in the trash, I hated it. But get whatever brand you like and give it to her. Next time she comes to dinner serve her a steak medium rare with the thermometer stuck in it, just kidding. I know it is a difficult thing to tell them and not sure how I would either.

Best of luck and hang in there. This guy I am dating, I bought him one cuz he wanted to learn to cook. He still cant cook or grill even with the thermometer. I think it is a hopeless cause.

[MikeB3542]

Be gentle with your friends.

When you say "meat thermometer" to them, what they are probably picturing is one of the old school thermometers that you can (still) pick up at the supermarket. They probably had a few bad experiences with those (they are too painfully slow to spot check and wildly innaccurate) and figured long ago that they did as good or better job by guessing. Some of the cheaper digital thermometers are similarly @rappy -- they just let you read your wildly innaccurate temp on a digital display.

Complicating this is that meats continue to cook after pulling from the oven. Their intuition might not be that far off. The meat may in fact be exquisitely done when they pull it out -- but after ten minutes or so of resting the meat goes from medium rare to shoe leather. It is completely possible to make this mistake with the most accurate of thermometers.

And that assumes you have a good idea of which temperature is appropriate for a given level of doneness -- some of the meat temp guidelines (and I'm talking to YOU USDA!) are way too high.

So -- buy an extra thermometer. Bring it with to dinner. If she likes it, let her keep it. If not, send it to me...I could use a new one.;-)

[kchurchill5]

I do have 2 ... About 7 dollars each if that.

The one is 8 + years old. I swear by it. The other one, 3 years old. Same cheap thermometer, nothing fancy. They both work great. I do rely on them for tenderloin, pork loins, roasts etc. Very important. Steaks no. Just feel.

But I love having them when I need to. A must for some things!!

[duck833]

I pull my steaks from the grill at as close to 119 degrees that I can get. The jump from 114-115 to 119 is really quick. I am using lots of coals however and running at higher temps. I don't think a thumb or pushing on my fillet or rib-eye is going to cut it. Having a insta-read thermapen allows me to nail it every time.

[BruceMcK]

Hey Duck833,
When you pull the steaks off at 119 degrees what final temperature and doneness are you aiming for? And what thickness are the steaks?
Thanks!

[chuckl]

maybe when you and your friend get together you might suggest she cook something that benefits from a lot of time in the oven, that's not cooked til it's falling off the bone. low and slow for hours. Something like pulled pork or pork butt or braised dishes.

[scubadoo97]

You know these are the type of things I like best. I get bored with steak. Not really too changed from the raw state to the finished meal. A big tough cut of meat that is transformed from inedible to the sublime is a favorite for me. I like to do braises for dinner parties because it frees me from constant food watching when I want to be with my guests. Lamb shanks, short ribs, brisket....and the porky items you mentioned all are excellent for parties. You can go as rustic or as fancy as you like with these.

[c oliver]

Probably the biggest stumbling blocks here is that she *thinks* she's a really good cook - it's not JUST the meat that has problems frequently. AND she's the most stubborn person I've ever known. I'm pretty darn stubborn also but an absolute featherweight compared to her. So when it's overcooked, she just acts like it's wonderful and we take tiny helpings so it won't be obvious that we're not eating much. I do think I'm going to give her my extra one (it's a cheapy but works great) and say that (wink, wink) I read this long thread on CH where everyone was saying they just couldn't live without their MT.

I also do agree that the USDA temp recs are ridiculous so, if I haven't fixed a particular cut in a while, I'll pull out a recipe to check the temp.

I don't use a MT for steaks and chops but if I had an thermapen I probably would. But we cook on the grill so, so much that we pretty much have that down pat. Thanks again, all.

[alwayscooking]

Oh definately give your friend the thermometer and mention all the discussion around this topic. I'd also use another passive statement like 'the meat these days is so inconsistent - either too moist or too aged - that it's impossible to exactly follow a recipe any longer."

Although we both know, all cookbooks should read 'cook until done' for meat.

[duck833]

I am normally cooking Costco rib-eyes or fillets, fillets are maybe 1 1/2 thick, rib-eyes at least 1". I am going for medium rare. When I pull from a hot fire at 119-120 it seems the temp will keep going until 125-126 or so, normally will let them rest 4-5 minutes. Will also do the same from flank (they cook super fast) and tri-tip.

[ipsedixit]

If you know your grill, and have grilled enough times on that grill, then you don't really need a meat thermo.

[pollyanna]

Don't know if anyone is still reading this blog but my oven has a built-in thermometer. One end plugs into a hole in the wall of the oven and the probe goes in the food. The temperature shows up on the outside of the oven door. I guess these kind of ovens are not available in U.S. Mine is European.

[c oliver]

What a cool idea! As the OP and still occasional victim of the meat overcooker, I still haven't dared deal with this. But posting was therapeutic.

[thew]

' I say things like "the most indispensable tool in my kitchen is probably my meat thermometer." '

maybe instead of such an indirect approach you should just say what you mean......

[tim irvine]

My meat thermometer has definitely made my roasts better. Working a line in a restaurant years ago, sure, we could pretty much tell how done a steak was by feel (none of this "formula" stuff, just push on it and feel how soft it is), but it's kind of hard to cook a roast that way. Adding an instant read thermometer has helped a ton, especially with pork loins and roasting chickens, now never overcooked and dry. It has also given me something constant and objective...160 is edible, 158 is noticeably better, 155 is really good, and 150 is great (pork loin). They all come up about five degrees while they rest . Never could have done that with my fingers. . Mine is not a 85 dollar one OR a Taylor (they suck, IMHO...persnickety and not waterproof)..cost about $20 at the hardware store. It's a CDN.

[kayakado]

You don't need a thermometer to test meat.
Try this...
meat doneness is directly related to resistance to pressing on the meat as compared to the resistance when pressing on the base of your thumb while it is touching the thumb tip to an opposing finger as described below.

Using one hand Touch the thumb to little finger on the same hand - well done
Using one hand Touch the thumb to ring finger on the same hand - medium well
Using one hand Touch the thumb to middle finger on the same hand - medium
Using one hand Touch the thumb to pointer finger on the same hand - rare

[scubadoo97]

Familiar with this test and have used it often. The thermometer is more accurate. If you are a line chef and all you are doing that night is firing steaks you get darn good at it. Repetition is key to being able to cook with that level of accuracy. For us home cooks the thermometer will help insure the correct temp to pull that steak.

[c oliver]

I'd like to see someone determine that a 7# pork shoulder roast has reached 190 degrees with that method.

[MikeB3542]

When the bone pulls away easily, your pork shoulder roast is done.

[mateo21]

No.

[shaogo]

I can only imagine the graceful, refined c oliver and her spouse, sitting at table chewing on shoe leather while her friend (we'll call her "Patty Perfect") offers everyone "a little more gravy." It's a great idea that you're willing to get her a meat thermometer.

Hey, it'd be one thing if Patty Perfect screwed up once or twice over the years. But this lady apparently is so headstrong she self-destructs. There's no reason at all for anyone to eat an overcooked roast at Patty Perfect's house. Surely c oliver is not the only one of Patty Perfect's guests who's suffered from her loathsome lack of awareness. Why don't you all have a meat thermometer intervention with her? Do it with love. Let her know you just want her to be a better cook...

Oh, Lord. I've been watching too much reality television...

[c oliver]

You made c oliver and spouse laugh out loud :) Graceful? Refined? Well, my late mother certainly was. I tend to stub toes and use the F-word too much. My friend is 70 and English if that forgives her any for being stubborn. And most of her dinner guests are REALLY bad cooks so they're just happy to get a meal. She does more good deeds in a week than I do in a year so the occasional overcooked meat is mostly overlooked. And, thank heavens, the problem with the rack of lamb was undercooking so we could throw it back on the grill.