619487 Wed May 13 07:30:10 -0700 2009 29 46 China 0 4679459 I'm off to China shortly and just want some input on my dining choices thus far.. Some we'll wing but I'd like to have most of it all set up before leaving. Shanghai: Deciding one night between Ji Shi and Ye Shanghai? (d) Lost Heavan (d) Cheng Cheng (d) Jia Jia Tang Bao (snack or L) Shintori (L) Gu Yi (L) Crystal Jade (Sunday brunch) Beijing: Kejia Cai (L) Noodle Loft (L) Din Tai Fung (L or snack) Hua Jia Yi Yuan ( D) Yu Xin (D) Wuyutai Neifu Cai (D) Any suggestions or tips for my choices? Wed May 13 07:30:10 -0700 2009 292273 dktochina 1 4679982 Haven't been to Ye Shanghai, but it's apparently more than twice as expensive as Ji Shi, (according to reports on what dianping.com reviewers spent) and couldn't possibly be twice as good. Hottest table among locals these days is Xin Xiang Hui, a Sichuan restuarant with multiple locations. http://www.xinxianghui.com/ Don't miss Jia Jia! Wed May 13 09:55:05 -0700 2009 4679459 131118 Xiao Yang 1 4699339 Lost Heaven is quite solid on the Yunnan cuisine, but also consider Southern Barbarian (56 Maoming Nan Lu, 茂名南路56号生活艺术空间E区2楼近长乐路, 021-5157-5510) which is a bit cheaper and still excellent. For Sichuan food, I'm a big proponent of Di Shui Dong (multiple locations in Shanghai, 021-6253 2689), but Pin Chuan (47 TaoJiang Road, 021-6437-9361) is also quite good and the atmosphere a little more elegant. You're definitely on the money w/ Crystal Jade. Their dim sum is killer, but if you're looking for Cantonese food, you may want to try Hengshan Cafe (308 Hengshan Lu, 021-6466-4953). Unfortunately, however, they don't serve dim sum, or as the Shanghainese say, "dian xin." Shintori is definitely a solid hit, but if you're looking for a fancy, Asian-fusion, I would strongly recommend People's 7 (805 Julu Lu, 021-5404-0707) which is right next door. This restaurant also doubles as a bar/lounge and their food is both delicious and served with creative presentation. As for Beijing, well, just head to "Gui Jie" (Dongzhimen Nei Da Jie) to take care of all your cravings. The folks at Chow may be a little tired of my linking to this article -- http://www.chinatravel.net/feature/Hungry-Dan-vs-Gui-Jie-The-Ghost-of-Hunger-Past/1113.html -- but it does give you loads of information on a great, centralized dining-mecca. Also maksure to hit up Quanjude for the famous "kaoya" (roast Beijing duck). I hope some of these tips work out for you. Happy eating . . . Tue May 19 21:26:19 -0700 2009 4679459 289116 dannyrogue 2 4723129 i like both Lost Heaven and Southern Barbarian, but the OP should know that despite some regional overlap, they are very different animals...Lost Heaven is kind of glam, more expensive, dark, and very art-directed...foodwise, despite the Yunnan label, it's best and most signature dishes are more Burmese/tribal dishes (e.g. that amazing tea leaf salad) than they are classic Yunnan...Southern Barbarian has a minimalist, stripped-down cool vibe (would not be out of place in the East Village of NYC or San Fran or some other N.American loft district) and serves yummy, straight-up Yunnan food for very moderate prices and has the best artisnal beer/ale selection in all of SH... i love Dishui Dong for Hunanese too...the fried eel w/ chilis is one of my favs...i like it better than board favorite Guyi... i have mixed feeling about Pinchuan -- the glossy vibe isn't my style and i like some of grungier Sichuan places in SH better...but they do a tofu w/ crab roe that's pretty much the perfect blend of Shanghainese and Sichuanese cuisine... i've never had dimsum at Crystal Jade but i thought their dinner-fare was overpriced and barely decent the one time i went... For the OP, i would consider dumping Crystal Jade and/or DTF if better options present themselves...unfortunately i'm currently blanking on the names of my two fav SH Sichuan restaurants... and in Beijing, i highly recommend adding Kaorouji to your list... Thu May 28 15:24:45 -0700 2009 4699339 11077 Simon 1 4699607 Ye Shanghai instead of Ji Shi? No way.... Di Shui Dong is OK for Sichuan. Lost interest in Shintori years ago. There are lots of places better than Quan Ju De in Beijing for the duck. Lots of people rave about Made In China, the restaurant in the Grand Hyatt. Wed May 20 04:00:06 -0700 2009 4679459 132103 Peech 2 4699789 Sorry to be pedantic but Di Shui Dong is hunan food, not Sichuan! For Sichuan food there's a new place which is well worth checking out, Citizen Sichuan on Donghu Lu, my new favourite Sichuan restaurant! My friends who live in Beijing swear by Da Dong for Beijing duck (Quan Ju De is for tourists), they took me there in my last trip, great stuff! Yeah, People's Seven is good (if you can figure out how to get in the place), you reminded me I've not been there for a while Wed May 20 05:57:17 -0700 2009 4699607 277830 E Woks 3 4702652 E Woks, My condolences for tripping your spice-o-meter. You are in fact correct that Dishuidong is Hunan-ese, an oversight on my part. Concerning People's Seven, just make a reservation and they'll tell you the code to their fancy-pants exclusive door-button / light-thingy mechanism. Wed May 20 23:09:12 -0700 2009 4699789 289116 dannyrogue 3 4705688 I'd second Da Dong. After relying on Quanjude for decades, then switching my allegiance to Made in China (still my fave place to dine in Beijing overall) in the past 3-4 years or so, I must say that the best Beijing duck I've ever tasted now belongs to Da Dong. Thu May 21 23:21:25 -0700 2009 4699789 143097 klyeoh 4 4705915 In Shanghai, For the spicy stop, I recommend Ninas Sichuan In Wujiaochang. This is a chain Sichuan resto like Xin xiang hui (Spicy Joint). The wujiaochang location is the best but is far away from downtown in Yangpu. Spicy joint is very popular and succesful. I think 6 locations and counting. They offer VERY good value. Need to book in advance though or you will be a waiting. For Xiao long Bao, I still recommend Nan Xiang. Jia jia tang bao is good but nan Xiang is still the best for me and my shanghainese wife (I can forsee comments on this forsure). For dim sum, I recommend jing cai xuan (exquisite bocuse). They have a location in New Jing Jiang tower. Great cantonese dim sum. For shanghainese, I recommend xiao nan guo, and jade garden as well. Happy chowing... Fri May 22 05:20:31 -0700 2009 4705688 248892 hquanshang 5 4706462 I believe Xin Xiang Hui only takes reservations for the first seating, so if you don't like to eat early, be prepared to wait in line. I understand the pull of the tradition of the Nanxiang experience (it's still really a temple of worship f xiao long bao), and have been going there since 1992, but respectfully disagree on the quality of the XLB nowadays. And my Shanghainese wife agrees with me.. Fri May 22 08:53:17 -0700 2009 4705915 131118 Xiao Yang 2 4707205 Did NOT like Made in China, they served us maybe 1/4 of the edible (and delicious) parts of the duck, and the attitude of the staff was unbearably snobby. It was also expensive (the second-most expensive meal of a trip that encompassed Tokyo, Kyoto, Taipei, HK, Shanghai and Suzhou - the first being at the apparently late and certainly unlamented by us Sens and Bund in Shanghai). I know a lot of people here like Made in China but must disagree strongly. In Shanghai, Di Shui Dong and Hengshan Cafe are both very good - the shrimp with garlic and hot peppers at DSD and especially duojiao (pickled chilis) whole fresh turbot and the roast goose at the Hengshan are very fond memories. Fri May 22 12:53:34 -0700 2009 4699607 13709 buttertart 3 4712301 I was also disappointed with Made In China, my poorest meal experience in Beijing - sevice in particular was well below expectation although the duck and pancakes were fine as was the cabbage and chestnuts. I had much better meals at the China Grill (Park Hyatt) and Sureno and Bei (the Opposite House) the latter was particularly stunning. Mon May 25 04:12:34 -0700 2009 4707205 290643 macsym 4 4713056 We also had the cabbage and chestnuts. I found the sauce a bit soupy but my husband, who is fonder of wetter foods than I, loved it. Mon May 25 11:13:12 -0700 2009 4712301 13709 buttertart 5 4714612 I agree about the soupiness but the flavour was good. and the saffron evident. I also had the spinach with sesame seeds. The spinach itself was good but I thought the rich, rather 'chocolate' like sauce overpowerd the vegetable, so IMO it defeated the object of having a green vegetable. Tue May 26 03:57:07 -0700 2009 4713056 290643 macsym 1 4915397 Quick update: So since I've posted on this thread last, I've discovered a great Yunnan spot called Legend Taste (http://kl.am/1WLT ) on Kangding Lu. It's not the most traditional Yunnan restaurant in Shanghai, but the food is great and it's not too expensive (around RMB 200 per couple with beers . . . way less than Lost Heaven). I highly recommend. Highly. Also, at the advice of this thread I gave Gu Yi a try. It's good. It's very good. It's on the same level as Di Shui Dong in my opinion. The prices are similar although Gu Yi definitely has a fancier, more formal atmosphere. I would rate Di Shui Dong's ribs higher, but overall both restaurants are good and worth a try. Tue Aug 04 00:22:39 -0700 2009 4679459 289116 dannyrogue 1 4921834 Beijing Roast Duck BJ Duck Restaurant Bianyifang Kaoya Dian China BJ Quanjude Roast Duck Corporation China Garden Restaurant Fengyimen Huanggong Group  Barbecue Baiwanzhuang Barbecue Restaurant China Huazheng F & Co Ltd (Japanese Style) Fangxinyuan Barbecue Restaurant Hotpot Badaju Instant-Boiled Meat Restaurant Donglaishun Restaurant Hutulou Restaurant Beijing Imperial Cuisine Beijing Hui Zhen Restaurant Fangshan Gloria Showcase Huizhenlou Restaurant More Beijing food and restaurants http://chinafacttours.com/travel_destinations/eat-in-beijing-where.html Thu Aug 06 02:05:29 -0700 2009 4679459 279065 Chinafactor 1 4923036 Let's say my wife and I want a multi-course Imperial cuisine banquet, is there a restaurant that will do that for just 2 people in Beijing? If so, where is a good on in Dongcheng district? Thu Aug 06 10:56:21 -0700 2009 4679459 180506 Ericandblueboy 1 4923674 Jishi over Ye Shanghai ANY DAY, that is just a no brainer. But you would have to get reservations in advance, at least a day or two. You left out Charmant (Xiaocheng gu shi) which has really awesome home-style Taiwanese cooking. Their peanut smoothy is the best dessert in the city. One of my favorite places for a slightly fancier meal (but one that averages about 100rmb a person) is Xian Qiang Fang above the Wing On department store on Jiujiang Lu. Ít´s run by the same people who do Yong Foo Elite but the food is much better here, and the ambience is excellent--you´ll feel like you´ve been transported back into Lust, Caution-era Shanghai. Thu Aug 06 13:52:04 -0700 2009 4679459 1099718 jhau727 2 5113694 I guess it should be expected for an English language discussion board about Chinese food, but most of the Shanghai restaurants recommended here cater to the expats working here, are over priced, and not very good. There aren't many unique Sichuan restaurants in Shanghai, most of the decent Sichuan restaurants are these enormous dining hall affairs that I find it a bit overwhelming. Sichuan Citizen is a bit smaller than the other ones, but the food is really bland, I think they tone down the spice for the foreigners the restaurant caters too. Even though it is always very crowded Spicy Joint on the same block is much better (and cheaper). Di Shui Dong's has gone way down in quality in the past few years, don't go. GuYi is slightly better though not great either; I try to avoid chain restaurants completely, I'd prefer a more unique dining experience. My Hunan recommendation is for Guo Yuan, though it is a bit out of the way. Check out this review: http://www.smartshanghai.com/blog/1161/Guo_Yuan.html Or go to Hunan Xiangcun Fengwei Guan, for a more conveniet location (168 Wulumuqi Lu) Crystal Jade is equally bland. Even though it is also a chain, check out Ding Tai Feng instead. They might just serve the best xiaolongbao in the city (and certainly the most expensive). People's 7, Ye Shanghai, Lost Heaven...do Chinese people even eat at those restaurants? Chinese attendance is not a requirement for good Chinese food, sure, but these 3 restaurants seem more focused on presentation and ambiance than food that tastes good (People's 7 especially), and so attract more tourists for the show than city residents for the food. Xin Ji Shi is an actually good Shanghainese restaurant, but you should really go to the one on Tianping Lu. Try Lan Ting, or Chun for a more local Shanghai experience. Mon Oct 19 03:02:54 -0700 2009 4923674 1115009 hafnerd 3 5119126 the only Chinese people who eat at People 7, Ye Shanghai, and (most especially) Lost Heaven were probably dragged there by foreign friends. The same can be said for Ding Tai Feng. I do sort of disagree with Crystal Jade, at least when it comes to their dim sum, they have some decent offerings. Good spicy Sichuan or Hunan food in Shanghai is hard to come by as most locals can't handle it and most spots tame spice levels. I've more or less given up on the "popular" Hunan joints (like GuYi) which are mediocre and instead found a few smaller Guizhou spots, including one near Jingan Temple that do a decent job when it comes to spice. Wed Oct 21 03:14:33 -0700 2009 5113694 1094099 modernleifeng 4 5119229 I think a lot of Chinese people eat at Ding Tai Feng, but they are probably from Hong Kong or Taiwan. It might just be too expensive. Still, I think ,despite being a chain, it is one of the most consistent restaurants in Shanghai. There are now 4(?) Ding Tai Feng restaurants in Shanghai, how many Crystal Jade's. They seem to pop up in the same places. I think lately Crystal Jade has suffered from a lack of consistency, I also used to like it, but I've found the quality is no longer as good as I'd find in another dim sum restaurant like Ding Tai Feng. It's strange that despite having so many people from Hong Kong living in Shanghai, the city really lacks many good dim sum restaurants. Another dim sum chain worth checking out is Royal China in Jiu Guang mall in Nanjing. They have a lot of choices that the previous restaurants I mentioned don't have, like pigeon, so I think more people from Hong Kong come here. I don't know why consistency is such a problem in restaurants in China. Di shui dong used to be good, thats why its famous in Shanghai, but its time has passed, now I would use the word terrible to describe the oily slop they serve. Same with GuYi, used to be good, but no longer (still better than Di Shui Dong). Wed Oct 21 05:28:21 -0700 2009 5119126 1115009 hafnerd 5 5142228 i agree re: Dishui Dong -- it's gone so far downhill as to be borderline inedible (and both locations are equally terrible)...too bad, as i used to really like the deep-fried eel... i'll stick up for Lost Heaven though -- some dishes are spotty (the papaya salad is a starchy travesty), but the Burmese Tea Leave salad and the Miao fish are yummy stuff... Have been to the Wulumuqi Lu Hunan place you mentioned about a year and half ago...while i was taken there by Hunanese friends who loved it, it didn't do the trick for me but perhaps was the dishes they ordered (some very boney frog) didn't appeal to me as much as other dishes might have... for Sichuan, do you like La Zi Yu on Anfu Lu? Fri Oct 30 03:40:46 -0700 2009 5119229 11077 Simon 6 5142800 Lost Heaven has some decent dishes though for the most part, its incredibly mediocre. That's fine, I have no problem with it, but the thing is that they claim its Yunnan food and yet it couldn't be further from that, more like a mix of se asian with a few Chinese ingredients, meant strictly for expats. Fri Oct 30 08:33:53 -0700 2009 5142228 1094099 modernleifeng 6 5164606 I think a lot of people would agree with me that La Zi Yu on Anfu Lu has lost almost all of its former glory. More than three years ago now, the food was great and it received well deserved hype. I don't know when it happened, but they have gone way down hill, so much so that I wouldn't even put it on a list of Shanghai's top Sichuan restaurants. Shanghai doesn't even have many great ones, most are very big chains. My favorite is Yu Xin, but I find the size of the dining rooms of both of their restaurants to be too overwhelming, how can they be consistent serving so many people? The think the one on Nanjing Lu has three floors. Sun Nov 08 03:03:59 -0800 2009 5142228 1115009 hafnerd 7 5166077 alas, i read your post too late and went to La Zi Yu on Anfu Lu: i agree it's not so good...the eponymous dish was full of bones and lacked a nice deeply spicy broth...the other dishes were equally mediocre... i'll try Yu Xin...(though i also don't care for huge restaurants) Lately the Sichuan (and Hunan) food i've had in SH has been a good bit worse than the Sichuan food i eat in NY (Spicy&Tasty in Flushing, Grand Sichuan 9th Ave, or for Hunan, the new Hunan House in N. Flushing) -- which is a troubling concept...a solo dinner at Pinchuan (which i never liked too much in the past -- with the exception of one dish, a crab roe mapo tofu that i had a couple years ago -- but decided to try again) was demoralizing: the kind of overly sweet food one gets at an old-school Empire Szechuan in NY)...ugh... Sun Nov 08 19:39:54 -0800 2009 5164606 11077 Simon 4 5166081 where is the Jingan Guizhou place?...sounds good... Sun Nov 08 19:42:14 -0800 2009 5119126 11077 Simon 5 5166314 It's called 黔府, its on Nanjing Xi Lu, near Jingan Temple, if you keep going west(? not sure, its in opposite direction of Kerry Center), its at the intersection of Nanjing Xi and Ulumuqi Rd. Sun Nov 08 22:25:50 -0800 2009 5166081 1094099 modernleifeng 6 5182575 thanks for the info on the Guizhou place...went there today: yummy catfish sour soup, dumplings w/ pork&cabbage and fried soft tofu w/ chilies...roasted rabbit legs were good too, though i might not order them again as quickly as i would the other three dishes...the big windows/booths were pleasant...it's now prob my fav place for spicy food in SH... Sun Nov 15 00:23:26 -0800 2009 5166314 11077 Simon 3 5177946 "these 3 restaurants seem more focused on presentation" --at a restaurant like People's 7, presentation is a big part of the equation "go to the one on Tianping Lu" --are Xin Ji Shi and Ji Shi the same? The location on Tianping Lu is totally jammin' "Crystal Jade is equally bland" -- I tend to disagree because they always have the best BBQ meat combo (pricey for sure). check out Zen in Grand Gateway Plaza (Xujiahui, Huashan Lu + Zhaojiabang Lu). You won't find any foreigners there you self-loathing whitey and although they don't the traditional cart service, the restaurant is a giant banquet hall and the food is really good and affordable. Snapline is highly over-rated . . . Fri Nov 13 00:08:40 -0800 2009 5113694 289116 dannyrogue 1 5164604 one can't even compare ye shanghai with jessie, the former is a tourist trap and the latter a real foodie's heaven! Sun Nov 08 02:43:50 -0800 2009 4679459 15904 rubyyao