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One more tea rant.

l
lucyis Apr 22, 2009 02:54 PM

I know it's come up before herein, but I just have to vent my tea wrath! DH and I had a lovely meal at The American Bounty in Hyde Park. We were served by charming hardworking students and ate imaginative well cooked food. I chose a deconstructed apple tart for dessert which was presented on a plate with a gorgeous drizzled sugar fan and a dollop of creme fresh, and then came my cup of tea. Sitting on a saucer was a little plastic handled pyrex pot full of hottish water and a tagless tea bag dangled alongside. My husband had freshly brewed coffee, with refills offered, and I got this stupid beverage that resembled tea after it sat in the cup a while.

Coffee drinkers don't get an empty cup and a spoonful of Maxwell House instant coffee. Why do we tea drinkers get this inferior product? I just don't understand how it is harder to brew tea than coffee.

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  1. Paulustrious RE: lucyis Apr 22, 2009 03:18 PM

    Your rant is echoed whole-heartedly. They put form before function...

    By all means use a ceramic or heavy pot. But make sure it is hot before adding water. I am yet to see this done.
    Add very, very hot water. Don't use water passed through a coffe maker, or a hot water urn - it isn't hot enough.
    Teabags aren't expensive - even good tea. Give me a second one. (In my dreams!)
    For a refill don't just add hot water. Try doing that to a coffee drinker.

    Sorry to be internationally offensive, but North America in general doesn't do good Orange Pekoe. (Or any of the other grades)

    In fact I don't think one server in 10 knows that Orange Pekoe isn't the name of the plant, or method of production, or type of tea.

    61 Replies
    1. re: Paulustrious
      m
      mordacity RE: Paulustrious Apr 22, 2009 03:27 PM

      >> In fact I don't think one server in 10 knows that Orange Pekoe isn't the name of the plant, or method of production, or type of tea.

      I didn't know that either. In that case, what DOES it mean?

      1. re: mordacity
        alanbarnes RE: mordacity Apr 22, 2009 03:50 PM

        http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+is+orange+p...

        1. re: mordacity
          Paulustrious RE: mordacity Apr 22, 2009 03:52 PM

          Better I supply a reference rather than prove my ignorance....

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_p...

          And for slightly more entertainment...hang on - got to find this...

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrqBe9...

        2. re: Paulustrious
          Ruth Lafler RE: Paulustrious Apr 22, 2009 04:02 PM

          Your standards are a lot lower than mine.

          Loose tea is really the only equivalent to fresh-ground brewed coffee.

          If that's not an option, there are lots of premium quality whole-leaf bagged teas available these days; they should be prepared by placing the bag in the brewing vessel and pouring boiling (or just below boiling, for more delicate teas) over it, then brought to the table. Dunking a teabag into a pot of water is simply not as effective, in addition to being messy and clumsy.

          It drives me crazy that fine dining restaurants that wouldn't dream of serving second-rate coffee won't give more than a passing thought to their tea service. Conversely, I give restaurants that do serve tea properly plenty of kudos and a special mention when I'm discussing or recommending the restaurant. I even started a thread on the SF board listing restaurants that serve tea properly.

          1. re: Ruth Lafler
            Paulustrious RE: Ruth Lafler Apr 22, 2009 04:18 PM

            Let's not stretch the envelope of credulity here. Most good restaurants peak out at a twinings teabag on a tampon string. At some of them they even have this enormous lustrous wooden case they will bring to the table where you can pick the teabg of your choice.

            Who could ask for more?

            1. re: Paulustrious
              Ruth Lafler RE: Paulustrious Apr 22, 2009 04:43 PM

              Oh, that wooden case makes me laugh! It's so monumentally clueless!

              I don't know where you are, but in the Bay Area there are actually restaurants that serve proper loose tea in proper pots. Really. Here's a thread to prove it: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/461767

              So it can be done (despite one ridiculous discussion where people were claiming it was just TOO HARD AND EXPENSIVE for a restaurant to serve proper tea, although apparently it's not to hard for restaurants to serve espresso and other fancy coffee drinks).

              1. re: Ruth Lafler
                h
                hilltowner RE: Ruth Lafler Apr 22, 2009 08:43 PM

                I remember that thread very well. I was one of the people trying to explain that proper tea service is just not feasible in many cases. Serving tables is my profession. I have been doing it for 15 years now. Making tea is not too hard or expensive, but too time consuming for a busy restaurant. I do not think it is out of reach for a fine dining restaurant, though. They have more staff, more time, and often, more space.

                Yes, espresso and other fancy coffee drinks are also major time suckers, and believe me, we don't much like to serve those either, but you can charge more for them. Alot of the problem with tea is that you just can't charge premium prices for them in this country. It's a five minute process for $2.00, the same price as a 30 second coffee, (I'm in a somewhat rural area), not to mention that it takes up more space.

                1. re: hilltowner
                  t
                  tuttebene RE: hilltowner Apr 25, 2009 05:44 AM

                  In my town, I've learned not to order tea in high end places because they DO charge more - not since paying $7 for a Mother Parkers Orange Pekoe tea (a very bad cheap brand) which BTW was the same price as the dessert! It's a loss for the resto since we now skip dessert and coffe and go somewhere else.

                  1. re: tuttebene
                    yayadave RE: tuttebene Apr 25, 2009 08:07 AM

                    But this is the missing link here. This thread is preaching to the choir. The people who have control of the service in their restaurants need to be told that their cruddy tea service (!) is costing them money. Then they'll be happy to make the effort. Did you think to tell them?

                    1. re: yayadave
                      t
                      tuttebene RE: yayadave Apr 25, 2009 10:27 AM

                      I am a rather direct person and have no problems politely complaining or expressing dissatisfaction. However, the same can't be said about my dining companion(s) - reserved, polite, Canadians. So, in order to avoid making then uncomfortable I vote with my feet. Now when I find somewhere that serves exceptional tea, no matter what type of resto, I make sure they know how important it is to keep doing so.

                      1. re: tuttebene
                        yayadave RE: tuttebene Apr 25, 2009 10:39 AM

                        Wonderful reply! From my experiences in Canada, a more subtle, civilized approach would make the point. They have to be told that it's to their benefit. And you're doing it.

                  2. re: hilltowner
                    c
                    chefbeth RE: hilltowner Apr 27, 2009 09:43 AM

                    I too have been in the restaurant business for over 15 years, both front of the house and back of the house, but I don't understand how a restaurant of any size can not have enough space for decent tea service.

                    A number of years ago I was in charge of the coffee and tea service for an aspiring upscale restaurant with about 200 seats. The owners approved the purchase of a number of very large espresso makers, coffee makers and even ice-tea makers along with all of the cups, pots, creamers, sugar and so forth -- all of it top notch. When I proposed a tea-service, I was told that we could "get away" with an off-brand wooden box with fifteen different varieties of mediocre bags (which was rarely replenished, so diners ended up with a choice of Cinnamon Apple, Lemon or a really low-grade green tea -- the least popular bags, with any half-way decent black tea rarely making an appearance). I tried to demonstrate that a couple of teapots, strainers, one hot water kettle and five kinds of loose tea might take up approximately two square feet, while the coffee and ice-tea service took up at least twenty (I swear that espresso maker was the size of a small car) at one-hundredth of the initial investment and they looked at me like I was out of my mind.

                    As for the time involved, it's actually quicker to make a pot of tea than to make a cappuccino as far as the actuall hands-on time. Set the kettle to boil, come back in a few minutes, fill the pot with hot water (you can make your coffee drinks now and come back to it in ten seconds or so), dump water out, add tea, add water, put on the lid and go. Steeping can be done at table -- tea drinkers don't mind pouring their own, and they'll be so delighted at having it done right!

                    Obviously, I lost that battle, kids. (And the restaurant eventually went under -- admittedly, for reasons that had very little to do with tea.)

                    As a tea-drinker myself, I'd be happy with a PG Tips tea bag with freshly boiled hot water (which has never seen the inside of a coffee maker of any kind) poured directly over it into a decent cup. I know, I know, my standards have slipped dramatically -- and yet I don't ever seem to have ordered tea in any kind of establishment which has exceeded these somewhat reasonable requirements.

                    1. re: chefbeth
                      Ruth Lafler RE: chefbeth Apr 27, 2009 10:29 AM

                      I agree what you described is the absolute minimum.

                      And yet, when I asked the waiter in one of the top-tier restaurants in San Francisco (which will remain nameless; however, I just noticed that as I type the face of the famous chef is peering out at me from a chowtip video on the sidebar) to take the supermarket-grade teabag (Stash, IIRC) I'd chosen from one of those ridiculous boxes back to the service area and pour the boiled water directly over it into the little pot, he argued with me that it wasn't necessary and finally flatly refused. Seriously. We're talking about a meal where my Dad dropped several hundred dollars (party of five, ordering multiple courses and wine), and he chose to humilate a customer (on her birthday, which he knew), by refusing a reasonable request! Which cost him what would have been a sizable tip (15-20 percent on $400+ tab -- you do the math!).

                      That kind of attitude, in case people are wondering, is what sends tea drinkers into rants like this.

                      1. re: Ruth Lafler
                        greedygirl RE: Ruth Lafler Apr 27, 2009 10:36 AM

                        That's truly shocking!

                        1. re: greedygirl
                          Ruth Lafler RE: greedygirl Apr 27, 2009 10:49 AM

                          Yup. BTW, the reason I'm not naming the restaurant is that this was several years ago, and for all I know, they've upgraded their tea service since then. I, of course, have not been back to find out.

                          It's become sort of a family joke, now (and just one of many instances that made bad service at my birthday dinner sort of a tradition, one that happily seems to have broken the last two years). When I ordered tea at my birthday dinner this year, and the waiter brought over The Box, my Mom raised her eyebrow and sort of snickered. However, the teabags were Mighty Leaf, which is actually pretty good (good quality tea in roomy "silken" pouches).

                          http://www.mightyleaf.com/tea-pouches/

                          1. re: Ruth Lafler
                            yayadave RE: Ruth Lafler Apr 27, 2009 11:49 AM

                            You probably want box of empty silk bags that you fill yourself for these occasions. That doesn't mean you won't pay for the service, teehee.

                            1. re: yayadave
                              Ruth Lafler RE: yayadave Apr 27, 2009 11:58 AM

                              Nah. If I were going to pack my own tea, I'd bring an infuser. I have a bunch of them including a reusable cloth infuser: a wooden ring with a handle with an unbleached cotton pouch attached to it (looks a little like a wind sock with a closed end) that's big enough to hold enough tea for a small pot. I could put the loose tea in and wrap it up -- but that still doesn't address the fact that you can't get them to bring you really hot water.

                              Example of a tea sock:
                              http://www.templeofthai.com/food/beve...

                              1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                c
                                chefbeth RE: Ruth Lafler Apr 27, 2009 02:34 PM

                                EXACTLY, Ruth! The Teavana cup-top brewers are pretty easily portable and I've got some great loose tea at home that I'd be happy to pack ,but if you can't get properly boiled water (and I prefer black tea, so it's got to be REALLY hot), then any urban camping experience you bring to the table is wasted. Not every place (check that: no place) has an electric kettle, but I know there's got to be a clean saute pan and a stove in the kitchen, so this request shouldn't be regarded as the total impossibility that it is. And yet . . .

                                (Sidebar: One thing I did come up against while setting up the aforesaid -- doomed -- tea service is that I couldn't find an NSF-rated electric tea kettle. Health departments can be incredibly dense when they come up against a piece of equipment that they haven't seen before, so you can loose inspection points for it. The fact that it's used to BOIL WATER won't sink in with them if they don't see that little sticker. If you've ever worked in a restaurant, then you understand. If you haven't, well, all I can say is that the NSF -- National Sanitary Foundation -- sticker, is like a mandate from a higher power to the health dept. types. But a saute pan and a butane burner can do the same job in just about the same amount of time).

                                1. re: chefbeth
                                  h
                                  hilltowner RE: chefbeth Apr 30, 2009 08:30 AM

                                  Boiling water in the kitchen during service IS NOT an option. Period.

                                  1. re: hilltowner
                                    c
                                    chefbeth RE: hilltowner Apr 30, 2009 11:42 AM

                                    I'm BOH too, dude -- and most tea orders won't be in the heat of service anyway. That said, a butate burner takes up less that a square foot in a wait station or on the cold side.

                                    1. re: chefbeth
                                      yayadave RE: chefbeth Apr 30, 2009 12:07 PM

                                      And an electric kettle doesn't need watching.

                                      1. re: chefbeth
                                        h
                                        hilltowner RE: chefbeth Apr 30, 2009 02:22 PM

                                        Actually, I'm FOH. I just can't imagine any kitchen not having a problem with servers running in to take up a burner and boil water. Kitchens are generally pretty small. The less people in there, the better.

                                        1. re: hilltowner
                                          invinotheresverde RE: hilltowner Apr 30, 2009 02:36 PM

                                          There is no extra room in the kitchen at my work, either.

                                    2. re: chefbeth
                                      Ruth Lafler RE: chefbeth Apr 30, 2009 12:14 PM

                                      Sounds like there's some kind of commercial possibility here in making a NSF-rated electric kettle.

                                      1. re: chefbeth
                                        x
                                        xanadude RE: chefbeth Apr 30, 2009 09:52 PM

                                        We use one of these (two, actually)--NSF certified, 200' hot water dispensers.

                                        http://www.insinkerator.com/product/p...

                                        1. re: xanadude
                                          Paulustrious RE: xanadude May 1, 2009 04:04 AM

                                          Unfortunately that's not hot enough for tea. (190F) For black tea I prefer truly boiling water that has not been boiled / heated for a long time.

                                          You get the same effect if you drink tea in the Alps at the higher ski stations. Best then to stay with coffee or gluhwein.

                                          And in some ways I agree with invinotheresverde - I'm sure there's a lot of veritas in his perspective. I never have tea in a restaurant. It's not much of a loss as I drink plenty at home.

                                      2. re: Ruth Lafler
                                        yayadave RE: Ruth Lafler Apr 27, 2009 08:30 PM

                                        Oh, noooooo! You couldn't take THAT in a restaurant!

                                        1. re: yayadave
                                          c
                                          comestible RE: yayadave Apr 27, 2009 08:49 PM

                                          Actually the lack-of-hot-water issue reminds me that when I travel, I favor green tea (which I bring myself, along with an infuser) for restaurants, because I must assume the water will not be hot enough (for black, oolong or pu'er) but may be just right for green.

                                          1. re: comestible
                                            invinotheresverde RE: comestible Apr 28, 2009 07:48 AM

                                            Sometimes the restaurant doesn't have the cut of beef I like, so I bring my own.

                                            Sometimes the restaurant doesn't have the type of tequila l like, so l bring my own.

                                            Sometimes the restaurant doesn't have the bottled water l like, so l bring my own.

                                            Sometimes the restaurant doesn't have the type of oysters l like, so l bring my own.

                                            Or, to stay more on-topic, sometimes the restaurant doesn't have the kind of coffee i like, so i bring my own.

                                            Does bringing your own tea/tea server to a restaurant sound as bizarre to anyone else as it does to me?!?

                                            1. re: invinotheresverde
                                              Paulustrious RE: invinotheresverde Apr 28, 2009 08:58 AM

                                              I have been guilty of two of the three - except it wasn't tequila, but ginger beer. I have also taken maple syrup to a diner cus I know theirs isn't. Same goes for hot sauce. And for a real quirk, I have taken pickled onions to have with a ploughman's.

                                              1. re: invinotheresverde
                                                Ruth Lafler RE: invinotheresverde Apr 28, 2009 09:29 AM

                                                Well, with the name "in vino" I would think that sometimes you bring your own wine to a restaurant. Is bringing tea any more bizarre than that? Or if a restaurant only offers tap water, would it be bizarre to bring your own bottled water? After all, they do provide water!

                                                I guess the difference to me is that the restaurants I'm talking about don't care about serving tea -- they only provide tea grudingly. If a restaurant doesn't care about/can't be bothered with serving tea, then why should it bother them if I bring my own?

                                                1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                  invinotheresverde RE: Ruth Lafler Apr 28, 2009 09:42 AM

                                                  I don't bring my own wine, but that could be solely because I'm in New England, which doesn't really offer corkage.

                                                  The water reference doesn't work because tap water versus bottled water are two separate entities. I would not bring my own bottle of water into a restaurant at all, but especially not to one that already offered bottled water.

                                                  Steakhouses "don't care about serving" vegetarians and only do so "grudgingly". Should I bring in my own tofu and veggies?

                                                  A restaurant isn't your home. They don't always carry what you like. If you want to make sure you can eat/drink exactly what you like, I'd suggest you eat at the one place where it's not a factor.

                                                  1. re: invinotheresverde
                                                    c
                                                    comestible RE: invinotheresverde Apr 28, 2009 01:17 PM

                                                    On the conttrary, I've often found that bringing my own tea stimulates interest and discussion with staff. They are curious about what I'm drinking and why, what's that cute device I'm using, etc.

                                                    Actually, tea is mostly a morning thing for me, and when traveling it's usually a hotel one-price breakfast or (in Europe) continental breakfast included in room fee -- so my substitution is not a huge deal as far as the restaurant itself is concerned -- it's practically buffet service anyway.

                                                    1. re: comestible
                                                      invinotheresverde RE: comestible Apr 29, 2009 05:41 AM

                                                      As someone who was part of the staff for many years, I can assure you that as soon as we left the table, we were calling you a whacko under our breath. Waiters work for tips. We "think" lots of things are "cute" while at the table.

                                                      1. re: invinotheresverde
                                                        c
                                                        comestible RE: invinotheresverde Apr 29, 2009 09:04 AM

                                                        Re: "Waiters work for tips." Hey, I'm a 20-percenter. Plus the management can charge me regular price for tea if I bring my own. Go ahead and laugh at me after I leave.

                                                        I just think restaurants are not going to wake up until more people bring their own.

                                                        1. re: comestible
                                                          invinotheresverde RE: comestible Apr 29, 2009 09:14 AM

                                                          I think you missed my point.

                                                    2. re: invinotheresverde
                                                      Ruth Lafler RE: invinotheresverde Apr 28, 2009 01:23 PM

                                                      Regardless of whether you bring your own wine to restaurants, you are aware that it's a common practice that even has it's own name, which refutes any argument that it's somehow "bizarre" for someone to bring their own beverage to a restaurant.

                                                      Tea lovers would argue that cheap bagged tea and good quality loose tea are at least as different as tap water and bottled water -- maybe more so. The difference between bottled water and tap water is (1) packaging, (2) source, and (3) variations in elements that make up only a tiny fraction of product relative to the base material (H2O). The difference between quality loose tea and bagged tea is (1) packaging, (2) source, and (3) variations in elements that make up only a tiny fraction of the product relative to the base material (leaves from the Camillia sinensis). However, considering that the base material of tea can be aged, fermented and otherwise processed, the variations between types of tea are actually a lot more significant than the variations between various types of water. Tea is, in fact, more like wine than water. How would you feel if you looked at what the restaurant billed as a "wine list" and all it had was Welch's grape juice -- wine is just grape juice, right?

                                                      The rest of your argument is silly. A meal at a restaurant has many constituent parts. Not all of those parts are going to be "perfect" and I'm not going to eat all my meals at home because after a perfectly lovely meal I can't get a decent cup of tea. The difference between wanting tofu at a steakhouse and wanting decent tea after a meal is that I'm not seeking to replace a whole meal, just one tiny fraction of it. And, I'm willing to pay "tea-age" so it's not like I'm trying to cheat the restaurant.

                                                      1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                        invinotheresverde RE: Ruth Lafler Apr 29, 2009 05:57 AM

                                                        "Regardless of whether you bring your own wine to restaurants, you are aware that it's a common practice that even has it's own name, which refutes any argument that it's somehow "bizarre" for someone to bring their own beverage to a restaurant."

                                                        So can I bring any beverage to a restaurant? Can I waltz in with a McDonalds strawberry milkshake? The restaurant doesn't serve Doctor Pepper, so I'll just bring my own. You know, I could really go for a Boodles Martini right now. Where does it end?

                                                        Bringing wine to a restaurant is culturally acceptable. Bringing tea is not. You'll be labeled as "the cheap, weird lady" who brings her own tea (not sayng that IS you, rather how you'll be labeled). You may not care about what others think. If not, go ahead and bring your own tea. I'm just giving it to you from the side of the restaurant.

                                                        "How would you feel if you looked at what the restaurant billed as a "wine list" and all it had was Welch's grape juice -- wine is just grape juice, right?"

                                                        I'd order a cocktail instead, and have done so on many occasions when the wine list isn't up to my standards.

                                                        "

                                                        1. re: invinotheresverde
                                                          Caitlin McGrath RE: invinotheresverde Apr 29, 2009 01:23 PM

                                                          Why would you call a customer who brings her own tea cheap if she is paying you the menu price for tea but using her own tea leaves? (Ruth said above she'd be happy to pay, as I think it's clear any of us on this thread who care about tea would.) If anything, a customer who brings her own tea and pays for her water to brew it is saving your restaurant the few cents its lousy teabag costs.

                                                          1. re: Caitlin McGrath
                                                            invinotheresverde RE: Caitlin McGrath Apr 29, 2009 01:40 PM

                                                            The few of you on this thread may be willing to pay for it, but I doubt the majority of the little old ladies that do this would. I know it's stereotyping, but those are the only people I've ever seen do this.

                                                            1. re: invinotheresverde
                                                              Ruth Lafler RE: invinotheresverde Apr 29, 2009 01:57 PM

                                                              That's a different issue -- they're doing it to save money, and I agree that's cheap and wrong. I would do it (I've never actually done it), because the restaurant had made a conscious choice to serve an inferior product.

                                                              1. re: invinotheresverde
                                                                Caitlin McGrath RE: invinotheresverde Apr 29, 2009 02:12 PM

                                                                Then I presume they are bringing their own tea bags in and asking for the water and attendant services that attend it (FOH and BOH) gratis because they are in fact, cheap.

                                                                You have stated in this thread that providing decent tea service even in a "fine dining" setting is both impractical and impossible and that no one really wants it anyway, and you have read that posters who care about tea would bring high-quality tea (and appropriate infuser, if need be) to a restaurant and pay for the privelege of drinking it there, and have responded that you would laugh at them and call them "cheap" and "whackos." If you are as representative of the industry as you portray yourself to be, perhaps the problem with restaurant tea service is less lack of interest among patrons than the attitude of those in the industry.

                                                                (Has it never occurred to you, even after reading this thread, that perhaps more than just a few customers per dinner service might order tea if they thought there was a fighting chance they might get something other than bad-quality tea in tepid water served indifferently?)

                                                                1. re: Caitlin McGrath
                                                                  invinotheresverde RE: Caitlin McGrath Apr 29, 2009 02:28 PM

                                                                  I never said providing good tea service is impractical or impossible. I said it won't happen at the majority of restaurants because there's virtually no demand for it.

                                                                  I worked with probably 500 different waiters in my service career. To the best of my knowledge, we were all of the same opinion (I can safely say this because waiters LOVE to compare the eccentric behavior of their customers, and have pretty much had this exact discussion at every place I've worked). That opinion is that people who bring in their own tea, for whatever reason, are peculiar. Would we laugh at them to their faces? Of course not. But in the back, out of customer's site is another story. If you want to think poor tea service is due to staff attitude and not lack of demand, go right ahead. I won't lose any sleep over it.

                                                                  The last place I worked used the silky teabags (I assume those are at least decent, but I'm blanking on the name) and extremely hot water. We still sold almost no tea.

                                                                  Look, I get it, you people like your tea. That's great. I like tea, too. But really, we're a small minority, which is why tea service is usually such an afterthought. I don't see how this is a difficult concept.

                                                                  1. re: invinotheresverde
                                                                    greedygirl RE: invinotheresverde Apr 29, 2009 02:43 PM

                                                                    I don't care if the waiters laugh at me or think I'm strange or cheap. I just want a decent cup of tea and I don't think that's too much to ask. I'm English, dammit, and I can't survive without tea, especially in the mornings. Coffee tends to give me a headache. Lipton tea (what I'm served all the time abroad) isn't worth drinking.

                                                                    1. re: greedygirl
                                                                      Caitlin McGrath RE: greedygirl Apr 29, 2009 02:47 PM

                                                                      I agree with you about Lipton, greedygirl, but I think you need to visit different restaurants in the United States! At least in the areas I've lived, while the water isn't hot enough, I usually have been given Twinings or Bigelow bags.

                                                                      1. re: Caitlin McGrath
                                                                        greedygirl RE: Caitlin McGrath Apr 29, 2009 02:51 PM

                                                                        I'm talking mainly about diners and cafes, which is where you end up eating breakfast and usually lunch while travelling. Lipton tea is also widely served on the Continent, where tea really is viewed as an aberration.

                                                                    2. re: invinotheresverde
                                                                      Caitlin McGrath RE: invinotheresverde Apr 29, 2009 02:50 PM

                                                                      I'm sorry, I see it was hilltowner who disavowed the practicality of tea service. I could not care less if servers think I'm peculiar or laugh at me out of my sight, and since I've found your arguments in this thread unconvincing, I'm happy to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

                                                                      1. re: Caitlin McGrath
                                                                        Paulustrious RE: Caitlin McGrath Apr 29, 2009 02:57 PM

                                                                        Pity, I was just getting into this brewhaha.

                                                                        1. re: Paulustrious
                                                                          EWSflash RE: Paulustrious Sep 24, 2009 07:18 PM

                                                                          Brewhaha- ha ha ha ha ha!
                                                                          Good one, Paulustrious.

                                                                        2. re: Caitlin McGrath
                                                                          invinotheresverde RE: Caitlin McGrath Apr 29, 2009 02:58 PM

                                                                          Before our parting of the ways, could you humor me and answer one last question? If it's okay to bring your own tea to a restaurant, what is it not okay to bring? Can I bring whatever I want to a restaurant simply because I have a better product?

                                                                          1. re: invinotheresverde
                                                                            d
                                                                            danieljdwyer RE: invinotheresverde Apr 30, 2009 08:03 AM

                                                                            I couldn't agree more. I'm both a tea drinker and a beer drinker. Restaurants that serve good beer are just as rare as those that serve good tea, at least in the northeast. I would never dream of bringing either with me into a restaurant.
                                                                            Also, tea and beer are very similar in another respect: most beer drinkers want crappy beer; most tea drinkers want crappy tea. Part of the reason that you're not going to get good tea service in even a fine restaurant the majority of the time is that most people who order tea want a bag of CTC crap. CTC bags outsell all other forms of tea combined even in places like India, China, and England. Similarly, watery swill is the most popular version of beer almost everywhere in the world. Even people with more refined taste in food aren't likely to want a good microbrew or a full leaf tea steeped unrestricted in an open pot of water - and the water shouldn't always be boiling, as that depends completely on the type of tea, with the majority of the finer teas not tolerating water above one hundred and eighty degrees.

                                                                          2. re: Caitlin McGrath
                                                                            h
                                                                            hilltowner RE: Caitlin McGrath Apr 30, 2009 08:34 AM

                                                                            Yep, it was me, but I did say that it was much more feasible in high end restaurants.

                                                                          3. re: invinotheresverde
                                                                            limster RE: invinotheresverde Apr 29, 2009 02:54 PM

                                                                            Tea service varies tremendously and can range from non-existent to very elaborate. Some places have specialised staff that just handle water pouring e.g. the guy with a pot of hot water that pours it in a long stream a metre away into one's cup of 8 treasure tea. While not necessary available at all restaurants, multiple types of tea ware, a fairly diverse teas list are not rare. And depending on which neighbourhood or country one is in, these types of restaurants may be in the vast majority. The "norm" in one or a few types of restaurant is not always generalisable to all restaurants.

                                                                2. re: invinotheresverde
                                                                  t
                                                                  tuttebene RE: invinotheresverde Apr 28, 2009 05:34 PM

                                                                  Your posts made me laugh. Food for thought. However, I disagree with your argument because most all restos are notoriously bad when it comes to tea service. If I were a vegetarian, I would know better than to eat in a steak house. If I don't like the food at a place, I don't return. Would you suggest that those of us who love good tea should stop dining out? When most places have horrible tea and cater only to coffee drinkers, is it so wrong to bring your own leaves? Don't think so.

                                                                  1. re: tuttebene
                                                                    invinotheresverde RE: tuttebene Apr 29, 2009 06:01 AM

                                                                    "If I were a vegetarian, I would know better than to eat in a steak house".

                                                                    Ahh, but the choice isn't always up to you. What if you had a work meeting to attend? There is much business conducted at steak places. We served quite a few vegetarians at the high end steak house I worked at.

                                                                    "Would you suggest that those of us who love good tea should stop dining out?"

                                                                    No, I suggest you order something else.

                                                                    "When most places have horrible tea and cater only to coffee drinkers, is it so wrong to bring your own leaves? Don't think so."

                                                                    Again, if I don't like oysters/brand of gin/cut of steak a place serves, "is it so wrong to bring your own?".

                                                                    1. re: invinotheresverde
                                                                      t
                                                                      tuttebene RE: invinotheresverde Apr 29, 2009 03:00 PM

                                                                      -"Would you suggest that those of us who love good tea should stop dining out?"
                                                                      -"No, I suggest you order something else."

                                                                      Well, at least we agree on something - I do "order something else" - by having tea and dessert somewhere else. As posted earlier, I vote with my feet (and smaller tab = smaller tips).

                                                                      Thank you for pointing out that tea lovers should really expect 3 things when dining out - order something other than tea (as a non-coffee drinker, I would struggle with this), bring your own leaves (LOL), or take your dessert business elsewhere. 'Tis very sad to say the least.

                                                              2. re: invinotheresverde
                                                                lynnlato RE: invinotheresverde Apr 28, 2009 10:46 AM

                                                                Ha! This made me laugh and reminded me of a situation that happened when I was waiting tables several years ago. A couple was seated in my section and they pulled out two fast food sodas, complete with plastic lids and straws (my resto was a nice bistor - no disposable cups, etc). I greeted them and asked that they let me dispose of their cups. They said no, they wanted to drink them. I sought out a manager who approached them and explained that we couldn't have disposable fast food cups on the table, as it was bad for business (in several ways). They agreed to return the cups to their car. Turns out they had mixed drinks in their cups and were hoping to save themselves a few dollars buy bringing in their own. Ha! I don't remember, but I assume they didn't tip well either. :)

                                        2. re: Ruth Lafler
                                          hazelnutlove RE: Ruth Lafler Apr 24, 2009 10:32 AM

                                          The problem with loose leaf tea is cultural too I think. I am used to drinking loose leaf tea because that is the only form of tea I knew until I was 18. When I left home, I finally experienced the mysterious "tea bag." But most of my friends have only ever used tea bags, and they don't know what to do with tea leaves in their cup.

                                        3. re: Paulustrious
                                          janetms383 RE: Paulustrious Apr 24, 2009 10:57 AM

                                          Geez, you all need to bring your own darn tea and a tea ball, ask for boiling water in a cup and you'll get your darn tea and not be charged!!

                                          1. re: janetms383
                                            yayadave RE: janetms383 Apr 24, 2009 11:04 AM

                                            Don't bet on "not be charged."

                                            1. re: yayadave
                                              Paulustrious RE: yayadave Apr 24, 2009 12:24 PM

                                              They might charge baggage?

                                        4. Jen76 RE: lucyis Apr 22, 2009 04:17 PM

                                          This is why I never order hot tea in a restaurant. I can even get decent, freshly brewed ICED tea, even in a fast food (non-chain) restaurant. For some reason, this doesn't apply to hot tea.

                                          5 Replies
                                          1. re: Jen76
                                            Ruth Lafler RE: Jen76 Apr 22, 2009 04:45 PM

                                            Doesn't "freshly brewed" iced tea start with hot tea? How can you have one without the other? I suspect that the difference is that iced tea is made much stronger -- and therefore better -- so that it can be watered down with ice. But if they're brewing it fresh, why can't they just bring it to you hot?

                                            1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                              Jen76 RE: Ruth Lafler Apr 22, 2009 04:55 PM

                                              Yes, but it never comes out hot from the dispenser. I can't explain it.

                                            2. re: Jen76
                                              h
                                              hilltowner RE: Jen76 Apr 22, 2009 08:44 PM

                                              Iced tea is made ahead of time, therefore does not take up any extra time during service.

                                              1. re: Jen76
                                                c
                                                comestible RE: Jen76 Apr 23, 2009 07:55 AM

                                                Yeah, me too. I'm a tea guy, and I've just learned from experience that it doesn't pay to order tea in a restaurant. I'll order coffee, which is almost invariably better. Or a glass of water.

                                                1. re: comestible
                                                  limster RE: comestible Apr 23, 2009 11:17 AM

                                                  It's hard to generalise and depends on the restaurant. I've gotten a very nicely brewed Anxi Tieguanyin at a restaurant -- they even decanted the tea into a tea pot so that the flavour was properly calibrated. Wasn't like I could enjoy each infusion separately to follow the rise and fall of the tea's flavour, but there was justice done to the tea.

                                              2. PeterL RE: lucyis Apr 22, 2009 04:59 PM

                                                Supply and demand, or lack of demand. We Americans don't know tea, don't demand good tea, and are totally scared of loose leaves. Thus we get what we deserve.

                                                38 Replies
                                                1. re: PeterL
                                                  l
                                                  lucyis RE: PeterL Apr 22, 2009 06:17 PM

                                                  Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone in my little tea-centric world. PeterL, you have a point about American sensibility.Even the smallest Asian eatery can serve wonderful loose tea and doesn't even charge for it.

                                                  1. re: PeterL
                                                    Ruth Lafler RE: PeterL Apr 22, 2009 10:26 PM

                                                    Speak for yourself! Maybe the Americans you know don't know tea, but this American knows lots who do! And times change -- 20 years ago it was much harder to get a decent cup of coffee than it is now. But customers' tastes became more sophisticated, and restaurants saw it as an opportunity to upsell their customers to a premium product at a premium price.

                                                    1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                      lynnlato RE: Ruth Lafler Apr 24, 2009 04:51 AM

                                                      I think his point is that there are far fewer tea drinkers than coffee drinkers. Thus, there hasn't been a significant demand for quality tea service. As a former server, the staff I worked with always cringed when someone ordered tea. And I've only ever servered the crappy generic tea bag tea.

                                                      I am a tea drinker almost exclusively. I don't care for coffee. I have been drinking tea since I was a small child and mom would give us tea and toast for breakfast. But I don't know an oolong from a rooibos. Good black tea or sometimes aloose herbal blend is what satisfies me.

                                                      1. re: lynnlato
                                                        invinotheresverde RE: lynnlato Apr 24, 2009 09:11 AM

                                                        Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner.

                                                        I've only worked at high end places. We sold virtually no tea. Maybe two or three teas would be served during an average 500+ dinner shift.

                                                        I know tea drinkers like good tea and good tea service, but there just aren't enough of you to merit much more. Tea is definitely low on the totem pole.

                                                        1. re: invinotheresverde
                                                          greedygirl RE: invinotheresverde Apr 24, 2009 09:16 AM

                                                          I don't think that's an excuse. It's not exactly hard to make a half-decent cup of tea. But it's obvious that America is not a nation of tea drinkers - whenever I'm in the States and ask for tea I'm always asked if I want "hot tea". Of course i want hot tea - iced tea is a completely different drink!

                                                          1. re: greedygirl
                                                            invinotheresverde RE: greedygirl Apr 24, 2009 09:40 AM

                                                            I'm just saying it's not at the top of most restaurant's radar. Almost no guests buy it. Owners are more concerned with the things that sell.

                                                            1. re: invinotheresverde
                                                              Ruth Lafler RE: invinotheresverde Apr 24, 2009 10:01 AM

                                                              That's like saying "no one orders the steak, so we only serve select-grade Sysco steak from our freezer." if you can't do it properly, don't put it on the menu.

                                                              Or, if you don't want to put any money into tea service, then only charge a nominal amount for my tea. Don't charge me a couple of bucks for a 2-cent food-service teabag and a pot of hot water.

                                                              1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                invinotheresverde RE: Ruth Lafler Apr 24, 2009 10:29 AM

                                                                No, because if no one ordered the steak, it'd be taken off the menu. Tea must remain in-house for the few random tea drinkers.

                                                                Also, any "good" restaurant should be serving something at least on par with Tazo bags. They're of passable quality and offer somewhat of a variety, and are easily accesible for restaurants.

                                                                1. re: invinotheresverde
                                                                  yayadave RE: invinotheresverde Apr 24, 2009 10:53 AM

                                                                  But the question remains, would tea requests increase in a "good" restaurant if they became known for their competent tea service? It would not take much to be ahead of everyone else in that department.

                                                                  1. re: yayadave
                                                                    invinotheresverde RE: yayadave Apr 24, 2009 11:02 AM

                                                                    It's possible, but it's such a teeny, tiny blip on the radar that I see why it doesn't get much attention.

                                                                    1. re: invinotheresverde
                                                                      yayadave RE: invinotheresverde Apr 24, 2009 11:12 AM

                                                                      I think maybe folks tastes are getting more sophisticated (I tried to find another word and just could not). They might respond well to better tea service. Also, first generation may be a tiny blip on the radar, but the ripples may be farther reaching.

                                                                      I notice that any thread about tea gets a lot of action on Chowhound.

                                                                  2. re: invinotheresverde
                                                                    Ruth Lafler RE: invinotheresverde Apr 24, 2009 02:22 PM

                                                                    My point is -- if you're going to offer it, it should be a decent quality product. If you wouldn't serve a frozen Sysco steak because of the quality, then you shouldn't serve a food-service tea bag for the same reason. I don't think restaurants realize how *insulting* it is to tea drinkers when they serve them a product much lower in quality than anything else they would dream of serving in their restaurant.

                                                                    Tea -- even good quality tea -- is relatively cheap and easy to store. If people rarely order it, then there's no reason why a restaurant can't keep a quarter pound (less than $10) of decent tea in a canister somewhere. And if people rarely order it, then the extra few seconds it takes to prepare and serve it shouldn't be onerous.

                                                                    1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                      h
                                                                      hilltowner RE: Ruth Lafler Apr 24, 2009 07:54 PM

                                                                      OK, I hear what you are saying and you have some good points, but I have one question - As the hot water spigot from the coffee machine is universally despised, how do you propose the server boil the water for your tea? The kitchen is off-limits and space is at a premium.

                                                                      1. re: hilltowner
                                                                        Ruth Lafler RE: hilltowner Apr 24, 2009 08:00 PM

                                                                        I'm not an expert on the logistics of restaurant prep areas. All I know is that some restaurants manage to do it, so clearly it's doable -- the issue is whether the restaurant wants to do it.

                                                                        One of my most cherished restaurant memories is the time I asked for iced tea in a little French bistro. No, they didn't have iced tea. Fine, I said, can I have hot tea and a glass of ice. The light went off the in waiter's head, and he said: *I* will make you iced tea. And he did. And he made me a refill later in the meal. That's the attitude a *good* restaurant should have, not whining and making excuses about how it's too hard.

                                                                        1. re: hilltowner
                                                                          greedygirl RE: hilltowner Apr 25, 2009 12:06 AM

                                                                          An electric kettle? Every home in Britain has one....

                                                                          1. re: greedygirl
                                                                            mcsheridan RE: greedygirl Apr 25, 2009 03:41 AM

                                                                            And the hotel rooms! I still remember how pleased I was at arriving in my hotel room in London a decade ago, to find a small wooden chest built into the wall. It held an electric kettle, some real cups, not plastic, not styrofoam, not paper; some good tea bags, sugar, and dairy creamers...not that awful non-dairy crap. Not a packet of instant coffee in sight. :)

                                                                            I was home.

                                                                        2. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                          invinotheresverde RE: Ruth Lafler Apr 27, 2009 07:08 AM

                                                                          I'm telling you from years of experience, few owners even think about the tea. They're definitely not going to keep loose tea on premises.

                                                                          If you're getting garbage tea, speak up. There's no reason to pay for something that is unacceptable to you.

                                                                          1. re: invinotheresverde
                                                                            Ruth Lafler RE: invinotheresverde Apr 27, 2009 09:38 AM

                                                                            Still, they are buying tea -- so why are they buying top of the line everything else, and then buying cheap tea?

                                                                            Being served a cheap tea bag and pot of lukewarm water in a nice restaurant is the equivalent of ordering a beer and getting handed a room temperature can (not even a bottle) of Coors light, because most of their customers order wine and they don't want to waste money or cooler space on "random" beer drinkers. Either serve something comparable in quality to the rest of your menu, or don't serve it!

                                                                        3. re: invinotheresverde
                                                                          greedygirl RE: invinotheresverde Apr 24, 2009 03:33 PM

                                                                          Tazo bags? I don't even know what they are. I guess I'll just keep travelling with my Twinings in my handbag. Sigh.

                                                                          And "random tea drinkers". You make us sound like an aberration!

                                                                          1. re: greedygirl
                                                                            Caitlin McGrath RE: greedygirl Apr 24, 2009 03:56 PM

                                                                            Tazo is a brand of tea. There are plenty of good American tea brands you're probably not familiar with (unfortunately, you don't encounter them in restaurants often enough). Most times, I'm given Twinings or Bigelow tea bags in restaurants, occasionally worse. (Both brands are available in almost any US supermarket; better supermarkets also have Tazo and others; better food markets still have loose teas; then, you have stores with dedicated tea selections.)

                                                                            1. re: Caitlin McGrath
                                                                              limster RE: Caitlin McGrath Apr 25, 2009 05:07 AM

                                                                              Mighty Leaf does make decent teabags, perhaps the equivalent of a solid table wine.

                                                                            2. re: greedygirl
                                                                              invinotheresverde RE: greedygirl Apr 27, 2009 07:05 AM

                                                                              You're reading too much into that.

                                                                              At the places I've worked, tea drinkers are few and far between. Hence, "random tea drinkers".

                                                                              Really, that's all. :)

                                                                              1. re: invinotheresverde
                                                                                greedygirl RE: invinotheresverde Apr 27, 2009 07:16 AM

                                                                                It was tongue in cheek.

                                                                                1. re: greedygirl
                                                                                  invinotheresverde RE: greedygirl Apr 27, 2009 07:17 AM

                                                                                  Inflection is hard to interpret here. Cool.

                                                                    2. re: invinotheresverde
                                                                      lynnlato RE: invinotheresverde Apr 24, 2009 07:47 PM

                                                                      Yay! What'd I win???

                                                                      My suggestion to restos who want to try out the higher end tea service - make it into a "thing", you know, where it draws the attention of other diners and then the curious order it out of curiousity and so on, and so on... This is how something becomes a marketable concept. For instance, the restos that serve pressed coffee and bring the little carafe out to the table and make a big deal out of it with the server pressing and turning. You're paying for the showmanship. Is it great coffee? It's probably okay, but it's all about the show. We need a tea show.

                                                                      1. re: lynnlato
                                                                        kattyeyes RE: lynnlato Apr 24, 2009 08:17 PM

                                                                        You're on to round two of winning--the tea show! That's it! There's a winery we love in CT that does a tea show. They serve it in a French press pot with a special pot of cream honey (or is it honey cream?). If I remember correctly, they prepare the coffee the same way. Both the tea and the coffee are excellent. Enough so that I went out to buy the exact same coffee they use from a local roaster--it was THAT good. So, for sure, bring on the tea show. I, for one, would be so happy to have that versus the sad box o'tea. I'm not saying it needs to be a tea CEREMONY (though that is very cool, too), but moving beyond "tea dust" would be a giant step in the right direction.

                                                                        1. re: kattyeyes
                                                                          greedygirl RE: kattyeyes Apr 25, 2009 12:05 AM

                                                                          Sorry but tea in a cafetiere - wtf! And with cream! That would not impress me one little bit. If they were really that serious they'd buy a flipping tea pot. How hard can it be?

                                                                          1. re: greedygirl
                                                                            kattyeyes RE: greedygirl Apr 25, 2009 04:56 AM

                                                                            I can only say don''t knock it till you've tried it. It was a lovely black oolong--loose leaves, not a bag in sight. And it wasn't cream--it was creamed honey. Here's a link I found that explains it:
                                                                            http://www.fainshoney.com/creamedHone...

                                                                            It is miles above what most restaurants serve for tea and I found it to be impressive. As with so many things in life, you just can't please everybody.

                                                                            1. re: kattyeyes
                                                                              lynnlato RE: kattyeyes Apr 25, 2009 05:12 AM

                                                                              Mmmm, that creamed honey looks good, KE. Never heard of it. I'll bet it'd be good spread on a croissant, etc.

                                                                              1. re: lynnlato
                                                                                kattyeyes RE: lynnlato Apr 25, 2009 05:16 AM

                                                                                Absolutely! And I remember Laurie saying it came from Asheville, though as you can see, it can be found in many places.

                                                                              2. re: kattyeyes
                                                                                greedygirl RE: kattyeyes Apr 25, 2009 06:53 AM

                                                                                But if you're serious about serving good tea, why not buy a tea pot? It just seems weird to me. Cafetieres are for coffee, not tea. I wouldn't dream of making tea in mine.

                                                                                1. re: greedygirl
                                                                                  kattyeyes RE: greedygirl Apr 25, 2009 07:04 AM

                                                                                  I guess it would seem weird until someone made it for you and you thought it was especially good. Cafetieres are not exclusive to coffee--and not just according to me or the restaurant where I enjoyed it:

                                                                                  http://www.salamandercookshop.com/ind...

                                                                                  I actually think La Cafetiere Titania Teapot is quite elegant and would make a beautiful tea show. But don't just take my word for it, it's for sale in your neck of the woods, not mine!

                                                                                2. re: kattyeyes
                                                                                  Paulustrious RE: kattyeyes Apr 25, 2009 04:26 PM

                                                                                  I have to agree - a cafetiere is an excellent way to serve tea.

                                                                                  I really must start a thread about the US and UK being split by a common culinary language.

                                                                                  1. re: Paulustrious
                                                                                    Caitlin McGrath RE: Paulustrious Apr 25, 2009 07:19 PM

                                                                                    I liked your idea for the divided by a common language thread, so I ran with it. http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/615004

                                                                                    1. re: Paulustrious
                                                                                      greedygirl RE: Paulustrious Apr 26, 2009 12:29 AM

                                                                                      I have had tea made in a cafetiere and it's OK at a pinch but I prefer the vessel that's been used for hundreds of years - a teapot!

                                                                              3. re: lynnlato
                                                                                limster RE: lynnlato Apr 25, 2009 05:11 AM

                                                                                >>"we need a tea show"

                                                                                can get complicated here...the different types of cups (eg. aroma vs drink cup), smelling the leaves and the tea at different steps of the process...tasting each infusions separately (a seriously aged pu-erh could take hours given that some of them may peak at infusion number 10 or so.....)

                                                                                1. re: limster
                                                                                  Ruth Lafler RE: limster Apr 25, 2009 04:26 PM

                                                                                  I had some chow-ish friends over for afternoon tea, and we used both regular teacups and gaiwans, as appropriate for the various teas I served.

                                                                                  As for having a "tea show" -- how about flowering teas? They make for an impressive presentation and would demand a premium price.

                                                                                  http://www.worldpantry.com/cgi-bin/nc...

                                                                          2. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                            PeterL RE: Ruth Lafler Apr 24, 2009 03:54 PM

                                                                            There are 300 million Americans, I am quite sure a few here and there knows, loves and demands good tea. I am of course not speaking for you or me, but in general. Chinese restaurants do upsell on premium tea, but their customers are sophisticated tea drinkers.

                                                                        2. mcsheridan RE: lucyis Apr 23, 2009 06:40 PM

                                                                          Tea drinkers have good reasons to be wrathful...here's a few more:

                                                                          1) Always having to ask TWICE at weddings and other catered functions before getting the pathetic tea they serve. 1a) and then getting lemon when you asked for milk, or vice-versa.
                                                                          2) As you mentioned, Always being charged for Each and Every Cup, while coffee refills are free. Just how Much markup do they think is fair for storing and disposing of tea bags? Grrrrr.... 2a) Being offered "more tea" and having them pour more water for you to REUSE your ONE, lonely teabag. Disgusting.
                                                                          3) "Hot" water that may have boiled six hours ago and is flat as yesterday's pancakes.
                                                                          4) Water that may have been hot a hour ago...but draws a small pool of color in the bottom of the cup.
                                                                          And the Worst offender of all?

                                                                          5) THIS Bloody thing...that holds Blazing hot water, has no safe way to hold it, and generally splashes as much water on the saucer, the table and YOU as gets in the cup...

                                                                           
                                                                          15 Replies
                                                                          1. re: mcsheridan
                                                                            yayadave RE: mcsheridan Apr 23, 2009 09:11 PM

                                                                            I think number 5 is a bit ... well, bloody. After all, how hot can it be. I mean, it never has a lid.

                                                                            1. re: yayadave
                                                                              c
                                                                              comestible RE: yayadave Apr 23, 2009 09:44 PM

                                                                              Number 7) if you will, the tea-to-go with pathetic teabag (that wouldn't have even brewed a 6-oz. cup) comes to you floating in a 20-oz. cup. I have Starbucks to thank for this one...yeah, i should have known better!

                                                                              1. re: comestible
                                                                                Paulustrious RE: comestible Apr 24, 2009 04:29 AM

                                                                                We're on a roll. And then there's the ubiquitous green-tea pots in Asian restaurants. Now I like green tea, especially with spicey food. But someone designed those pots specifically to pour water everywhere except in the cup. As you pour it runs backwards down the spout. So now they attach little rubber tubes to stop that.

                                                                                Why don't they just have a decent lip on the spout? Or would it get broken off with repetetive use?

                                                                                I have one more rant about teacups - but I will have to bring myself to the boil first.

                                                                                1. re: comestible
                                                                                  Ruth Lafler RE: comestible Apr 24, 2009 02:29 PM

                                                                                  This morning I *twice* had to shout at the girl filling my cup "that's enough!" Earlier attempts to explain to her that I only want 8 ounces of water in a 16 oz. cup simply did not penetrate her skull.

                                                                                  1. re: comestible
                                                                                    t
                                                                                    tarteaucitron RE: comestible May 19, 2009 06:29 PM

                                                                                    Yes, this one is one of my major peeves! Although I wised up and usually ask for their smallest cup, and also to fill it only half full -- because even their smallest cup is too big for one wimpy tea bag these days! But if all else fails, I do not hesitate to rush to their trash bin, fish out the poor tea bag and dump out the offending amount of water, to recoup my tea.

                                                                                    I snicker inside, at #2 above too, when it happens to me.

                                                                                2. re: mcsheridan
                                                                                  greedygirl RE: mcsheridan Apr 24, 2009 09:04 AM

                                                                                  What IS that? It looks like an upside down light bulb. Do they really serve tea in that? What's wrong with a tea pot for goodness sake.

                                                                                  1. re: greedygirl
                                                                                    Ruth Lafler RE: greedygirl Apr 24, 2009 10:02 AM

                                                                                    It's a hot-water carafe -- some restaurants use that to "serve" the hot water you're then supposed to pour over your teabag in the cup.

                                                                                    1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                                      greedygirl RE: Ruth Lafler Apr 24, 2009 03:36 PM

                                                                                      That's mad. Why not just get a few small teapots and do it properly?

                                                                                    2. re: greedygirl
                                                                                      mcsheridan RE: greedygirl Apr 24, 2009 10:08 AM

                                                                                      They call it a carafe server. Holds Just enough hot water for one. Cup with teabag alongside. Ugh.

                                                                                      1. re: mcsheridan
                                                                                        yayadave RE: mcsheridan Apr 24, 2009 10:49 AM

                                                                                        And no lid!

                                                                                        1. re: yayadave
                                                                                          Sooeygun RE: yayadave Apr 24, 2009 11:18 AM

                                                                                          Oh, but sometimes there is a "lid". A formed piece of heavy paper that fits over the top. Honestly, I had a "lid" like that at one place. I thought, why even bother?

                                                                                          Unless I am served a proper teapot, I am very wary when pouring. Those carafe servers and the dinky metal pots invariably are designed to cause you to pour hot liquid all over the table.

                                                                                          And yet, after a nice dinner, I still want a hot beverage and hate coffee, so I order tea and hope for the best.

                                                                                          1. re: Sooeygun
                                                                                            mcsheridan RE: Sooeygun Apr 24, 2009 04:55 PM

                                                                                            And That! friends, is our problem in a nutshell...we Still, knowing all the pitfalls we may (and probably Will) encounter...must have our hot beverage, so we "Order tea and hope for the best."

                                                                                            Crushed hopes, piled high enough, can equal rage.

                                                                                    3. re: mcsheridan
                                                                                      PeterL RE: mcsheridan Apr 24, 2009 03:58 PM

                                                                                      I went to a wedding in which no coffee was served, only tea. But the bride and groom was in the tea business. But that's the only time.

                                                                                      1. re: PeterL
                                                                                        lynnlato RE: PeterL Apr 24, 2009 07:48 PM

                                                                                        The horror!!!!! LOL

                                                                                      2. re: mcsheridan
                                                                                        h
                                                                                        HLing RE: mcsheridan Sep 24, 2009 09:37 PM

                                                                                        oh...no wonder I get dirty looks from the waitress (realizing this years, decades later!). The way I use those carafe is to put a couple of tea bags IN it and let steep until ready, then pour into my cup, otherwise the water gets cold too quickly if you put the bag in the lame thick ceramic tea (coffee) cup and then pour water over IT. Those thick vanilla..generic cups don't hold temperature at all, much worse than glass, even.

                                                                                        Anyhow, and then some years later, I would put loose tea leaves that I bring from home in the carafe and cover it with a saucer.....

                                                                                        But no, i gave up drinking tea in a restaurant a long time ago.

                                                                                        Now, after all this rant - believe me you, I share all of the feelings of unjust that this thread has expressed- after all this rant, I've finally made peace with it. The reason? I started to roast my own coffee and manually stone grind it and Aeropress it. Though I'm still not very good at it, I've finally realized.... that the coffee served in most restaurants are pretty bad, too! I just didn't realize it because my tea-making experience is much more advanced than my coffee making before!

                                                                                        So, no more wrath...or, if looking on the other side, MORE wrath, for both bad coffee and bad teas served in the restaurants......

                                                                                      3. greedygirl RE: lucyis Apr 24, 2009 02:53 AM

                                                                                        Being English, I really miss a nice cup of tea when I travel. America is one of the worst offenders for serving up disgusting tea. Nobody, but nobody, drinks Lipton tea in England. It's revolting stuff. I ended up taking my own teabags into restaurants. I do that in France, Italy and Spain as well.

                                                                                        My friend Henrietta imports tea from small estates, mainly in China, but she's off to Malawi in a couple of weeks. Her tea is awesome - seek it out if you can. It's drunk by Angelica Huston, no less. http://www.rareteacompany.com/about-u...

                                                                                        15 Replies
                                                                                        1. re: greedygirl
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                                                                                          lucyis RE: greedygirl Apr 24, 2009 06:18 AM

                                                                                          Thanks for the more global view,greedygirl. I bring my own tea bags with me when I travel but I did, naively, think I could get a good cup at a top notch restaurant. Now the specialteas.com almond cookie pyramid bag will be in my purse. It is only part of a solution though, as paulustrious points out (too funny I might add), the tea water presentation can be perilous!

                                                                                          1. re: lucyis
                                                                                            greedygirl RE: lucyis Apr 24, 2009 08:57 AM

                                                                                            And it's rarely hot enough. Any English person worth his or her salt knows that tea has to be made with freshly boiled water. And In Europe the milk is often pasteurised so that makes the tea taste off as well.

                                                                                            1. re: greedygirl
                                                                                              Ruth Lafler RE: greedygirl Apr 24, 2009 10:04 AM

                                                                                              I think you mean the milk is *ultra*pasteurized, often from a tetrapak. Ick.

                                                                                              1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                                                greedygirl RE: Ruth Lafler Apr 24, 2009 03:29 PM

                                                                                                Sorry yes, I meant UHT.

                                                                                              2. re: greedygirl
                                                                                                PeterL RE: greedygirl Apr 24, 2009 03:59 PM

                                                                                                You can blame the water temperature on the McDonald lawsuite. No restaurant is going to bring you a pot of boiling water anymore.

                                                                                                1. re: PeterL
                                                                                                  Caitlin McGrath RE: PeterL Apr 24, 2009 04:07 PM

                                                                                                  I disagree. Too cool water for restaurant tea service long predates that lawsuit, unfortunately. It's often because a pot of hot water sits on the Bunn coffeemaker next to the coffee; the water's run through the coffeemaker and sits on the warmer at coffee-service temperature, which for most restaurants forever has been sub-McD's lawsuit temperature.

                                                                                                  1. re: Caitlin McGrath
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                                                                                                    lucyis RE: Caitlin McGrath Apr 24, 2009 04:22 PM

                                                                                                    Yes, and sometimes the tea then smells and tastes of coffee. Yuck.

                                                                                                    1. re: lucyis
                                                                                                      mcsheridan RE: lucyis Apr 24, 2009 04:57 PM

                                                                                                      UGH! That's the worst....coffee-tasting tea. And they look at you very strangely when you mention the problem.

                                                                                                      1. re: mcsheridan
                                                                                                        Kajikit RE: mcsheridan Apr 29, 2009 06:04 PM

                                                                                                        Coffee-flavoured tea is the worst thing in the universe... and the reason why I never try to make myself a nice cup of tea in an American hotel room. Even if you run hot water through the thing a dozen times, it STILL comes out tainted at the end.

                                                                                                        1. re: Kajikit
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                                                                                                          lucyis RE: Kajikit Apr 30, 2009 03:55 PM

                                                                                                          So true!! Dh is thrilled to have a neat little coffee thingee for his brew and I pout and get a Diet Coke for my breakfast instead of coffee flavored tea.

                                                                                                          1. re: lucyis
                                                                                                            Ruth Lafler RE: lucyis Apr 30, 2009 04:21 PM

                                                                                                            The only part of the coffee maker that touches coffee is the filter basket and the pot -- it's not like the coffee runs backwards from the filter into the water-heating part of the machine. I always just use the water heating part and take off the basket that holds the coffee filter. I then run the heated water directly into a cup, not the coffee-contaminated glass pot.

                                                                                                            1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                                                              Sooeygun RE: Ruth Lafler May 1, 2009 04:17 AM

                                                                                                              "Even if you run hot water through the thing a dozen times, it STILL comes out tainted at the end."

                                                                                                              So much of the coffee maker is made with plastic and I swear it absorbs the odour and flavour of the coffee making it impossible to ever get water out of it that doesn't taste like coffee.

                                                                                                        2. re: mcsheridan
                                                                                                          greygarious RE: mcsheridan Apr 30, 2009 06:13 PM

                                                                                                          I was a letter carrier, and usually got a "to go" from Dunkin Donuts at the start of my route and during my afternoon break. When they first started iced tea, I asked if they had it in decaf. When told yes, I ordered one with lemon and Splenda. It had a stale coffee smell and tasted worse than what you'd rinse out of an ashtray, but I was delivering mail before I took my first sip. When I returned later in the day I mentioned to the server, with whom I was on a first name basis, that whatever container they were using for the iced tea needed a good clean-out. When she told me they didn't make decaf iced tea, I realized that my morning drink must have been decaf coffee with lemon.....argh!

                                                                                                          1. re: greygarious
                                                                                                            alanbarnes RE: greygarious Apr 30, 2009 07:19 PM

                                                                                                            I think it Oscar Wilde who was said to have returned a cup at a restaurant saying something like "This is either too weak coffee or too strong tea. Whichever it is, bring me the other."

                                                                                                    2. re: PeterL
                                                                                                      greedygirl RE: PeterL Apr 24, 2009 04:10 PM

                                                                                                      Unless of course you live in England.

                                                                                              3. yayadave RE: lucyis Apr 24, 2009 08:39 PM

                                                                                                Let’s see how hard it is. 1) an electric water heating pot. 2) a few of these on a shelf for “the show” http://www.adagio.com/teaware/ingenui... 3) about five good loose teas with different profiles 4) a staff that knows the teas just as they know the various coffee preparations offered and the different salad dressings available (see, it ain’t impossible) 5) some “special” honey and crystal sugar and half and half and a few fresh lemon slices – for the show”

                                                                                                None of this seems impossible to me. It’s just that the folks who could make this happen aren’t aware that this might help their business. The wheel that squeaks … Or maybe there isn’t really any advantage to the bottom line for restaurants to produce palatable tea service.

                                                                                                8 Replies
                                                                                                1. re: yayadave
                                                                                                  kattyeyes RE: yayadave Apr 24, 2009 08:47 PM

                                                                                                  Nice! The IngenuiTEA (very clever) device looks very similar to Tevana's Perfect Tea Maker. I can put on lots of tea shows in the comfort of my own home. Shall we have a tea party? You are all invited. :)

                                                                                                  Seriously, either of those tea makers would give a great tea show and your steps 1 through 5 seem like a reasonable answer. Hey, restaurant owners, do you hear us?

                                                                                                  1. re: kattyeyes
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                                                                                                    comestible RE: kattyeyes Apr 24, 2009 09:35 PM

                                                                                                    Well, if you really want a tea "show," then the real deal would involve an experienced tea person, a gaiwan setup or a gongfu service with the tiny clay pots and 1-oz. cups. But that would surely steal the thunder from the rest of the meal. I'm not sure America is ready. :)

                                                                                                    It's better done in a tea-house anyway.

                                                                                                    1. re: comestible
                                                                                                      kattyeyes RE: comestible Apr 24, 2009 09:43 PM

                                                                                                      I do agree a "real" tea show is something special....been there, done that, had a tea table shipped from Hong Kong. ;) It's a beautiful thing and lovely experience all the way around. But yayadave's step 1-5 tea show would be good enough for me...and probably the rest of the tea 'hounds, too.

                                                                                                      Maybe when we're all much older and living in Chowhound Village (you know, like Leisure World or whatever it's called in California), we can do our own tea show in the community clubhouse. HA HA!

                                                                                                      1. re: comestible
                                                                                                        yayadave RE: comestible Apr 25, 2009 08:19 AM

                                                                                                        I'll bet most of America is not ready for gaiwan. Let's get them away from stale tea bags with some unidentifiable powder in them, first.

                                                                                                        When I read you comment about gaiwan, I just pictured people in their finery with tea dribbling down their chins from trying to use one. TeeHee

                                                                                                    2. re: yayadave
                                                                                                      Kajikit RE: yayadave Apr 29, 2009 06:15 PM

                                                                                                      What a clever little gizmo that is! I wouldn't mind having an ingenuitea... it would solve the 'getting tea while travelling' problem since hotel rooms almost always have microwaves. (how come they can have an inroom microwave oven, but no kettle?!)

                                                                                                      1. re: yayadave
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                                                                                                        chefbeth RE: yayadave Apr 30, 2009 05:05 AM

                                                                                                        Or maybe there isn’t really any advantage to the bottom line for restaurants to produce palatable tea service
                                                                                                        -----------
                                                                                                        I once took my Mom to lunch at Jean-Georges in NYC (very special occassion) and we ordered tea after our meal. They gave me a tea menu to choose from -- with prices. I chose a simple Ceylon tea and they brought it properly brewed in a pot with a cup and saucer, honey, sugar, lemon and milk. It was the best cup of tea I've ever had (perhaps because it was the only time I've ever had really good tea in a restaurant). The $7 charge was expected (because of the menu) and it was worth every penny. I'm sure J-G made money on it.

                                                                                                        1. re: chefbeth
                                                                                                          yayadave RE: chefbeth Apr 30, 2009 09:17 AM

                                                                                                          Is a puzzle. If restaurants can charge for it, there is an advantage to them. But maybe there really aren't enough customers who care enough. In your example, maybe a lot of people would have asked about tea, but, after looking at the price, just said "Never mind, just bring me coffee." So what does Mr. Restaurateur learn from that?

                                                                                                          By now, people who drink tea are "trained" to not bother asking in restaurants. So by now no one knows how big that constituency really is. Maybe if tea drinkers asked about the tea service every time in every restaurant and refused it if it were crappy and not up to the other standards of the restaurant, a light bulb would switch on somewhere.

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                                                                                                            tuttebene RE: yayadave Apr 30, 2009 10:38 AM

                                                                                                            Well said. I think this is the issue at hand - whether or not to bring your own leaves should probably been a separate thread. I will make a concerted effort in the future to enquire in advance about the type of tea a resto serves and if it's not worth the price, I will make a point of sharing that the quality is not what I was hoping for.

                                                                                                      2. Paulustrious RE: lucyis Apr 25, 2009 04:42 PM

                                                                                                        As a side topic - is there a prefect teacup - at least for you?

                                                                                                        In ye olde days British workman never used to wash out their tea cup - only rinse it. And in my (parents) home we never washed the teapot in anything other than plain water.

                                                                                                        3 Replies
                                                                                                        1. re: Paulustrious
                                                                                                          greedygirl RE: Paulustrious Apr 26, 2009 12:34 AM

                                                                                                          We're having the outside of our house painted at the moment and I've gone through a whole box of teabags in a week! British workmen are notorious tea drinkers, and I think the reason they rinse out their cup is to cut down on washing up because they're bound to be having another cup soon! Strong tea with milk and usually sugar is even commonly known as "builders".

                                                                                                          I like either china teacups (vintage) or simple earthenware mugs with big handles depending on the type of tea and the occasion.

                                                                                                          My parents only ever rinse their teapots as well. I think it's because they think that soapy water might "taint" the tea. I have to admit to putting my teapots through the dishwasher on occasion.

                                                                                                          1. re: greedygirl
                                                                                                            yayadave RE: greedygirl Apr 26, 2009 07:11 AM

                                                                                                            Maybe the teapot "rinsing only" goes to the days of clay teapots with un-glazed insides that would absorb flavors like soap.

                                                                                                            1. re: greedygirl
                                                                                                              Sooeygun RE: greedygirl Apr 26, 2009 07:12 AM

                                                                                                              I never wash my teapot either, just like the Queen. It's because if you wash it, you lose the lovely build up of tannin on the inside.

                                                                                                          2. mcsheridan RE: lucyis Apr 30, 2009 03:56 PM

                                                                                                            I don't know how this thread went on so long without Someone mentioning this...but I cannot, especially after Kajikit brought "the worst thing in the Universe" into this, NOT mention what The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe had to say about making tea:

                                                                                                            The Nutrimatic Drinks Dispenser is a product of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation. The Guide has this to say on the Nutrimatic Drinks Dispenser:

                                                                                                            "When the 'Drink' button is pressed it makes an instant but highly detailed examination of the subject's taste buds, a spectroscopic analysis of the subject's metabolism, and then sends tiny experimental signals down the neural pathways to the taste centres of the subject's brain to see what is likely to be well received. However, no one knows quite why it does this because it then invariably delivers a cupful of liquid that is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea."

                                                                                                            And Arthur Dent, space-hopping hominid with towel, nearly got himself and his friends killed in pursuit of a cuppa...THAT's how much we tea drinkers care about our favorite hot beverage.

                                                                                                            And what do WE get, too many times? "a cupful of liquid that is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea."

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                                                                                                              The Shepherd RE: lucyis May 12, 2009 12:07 PM

                                                                                                              I have read all zillion replys so far, and here is my question: Would it be OK for a restro to serve one very good tea, or do they have to serve 20 different flavors (as mentioned many times about the wooden box)? I don't see many small restros offering different types of coffee, you want a cup of joe you can either get regular or decaf, not green, black, olong, orange, etc. So, would you tea drinkers settle for one good tea? And what temp. should the @#$% water be?

                                                                                                              17 Replies
                                                                                                              1. re: The Shepherd
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                                                                                                                lucyis RE: The Shepherd May 12, 2009 01:26 PM

                                                                                                                Okay The Shepard, here is one zillion and one...I started this rant but it has had a life of its own. I, and I'm just speaking for this one tea drinker, would be content with one cup of any hot black tea in a mug, carafe, or cup. If it was originally brewed with boiling water (yes depending on the leaf genus perhaps not boiling but hot) I would not mind if it were not all that hot when it reached me.

                                                                                                                1. re: lucyis
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                                                                                                                  The Shepherd RE: lucyis May 12, 2009 03:02 PM

                                                                                                                  Thank you lucyis. As you can tell by my post above, I am not a tea drinker (other then the obligatory Chinese restro tea, where there is never a choice). But I have friends, who have a restro and they are always trying to please tea drinkers, by offering a multitude of teas. I think they would be better served to offer a black and possibly a decaf that is very high quality. What brands would you (and the other zillion writers) suggest if they could only serve those two teas? And what brand of tea kettle gets the water to the correct temp?

                                                                                                                  1. re: The Shepherd
                                                                                                                    Ruth Lafler RE: The Shepherd May 12, 2009 03:45 PM

                                                                                                                    First, I applaud them for making the attempt to please their tea-drinking customers.

                                                                                                                    As to what "brand" tea -- good loose tea is sold by purveyor, not brand. If they really want to get into this, they should find a local tea shop and ask if they'll set up a tasting or if they know anyone who does educational tea tastings. But in lieu of that, I see you're in the Pacific Northwest. If your friends' restaurant is in the same area, they probably have access to Peet's stores. Although Peet's is known for its coffee, it actually has a pretty good selection of loose teas of various kinds -- I have Peet's Earl Grey, Russian Caravan and Jasmine Downy Pearls in my current tea roster. They'll brew most of them for you by the cup, so you can taste them before you buy, and there's probably someone on staff who is a bit of a tea maven.

                                                                                                                    As for tea kettles -- any kettle will boil water. If you want less than boiling water, you can get out your instant read themometer and take readings every minute until you find out how long it takes X amount of water to cool to the desired temp after boiling. Then write the time(s) on a chart and stick it on the wall next to the tea prep area.

                                                                                                                    One more thing -- if some customers are uncomfortable with the idea of loose tea, instead of buying separate bagged teas, you can buy empty tea bags (very inexpensive) and fill them with a spoonful of your loose tea. A good Ceylon tea is similar enough (but better) to Lipton that they won't freak out.

                                                                                                                    1. re: Ruth Lafler
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                                                                                                                      danieljdwyer RE: Ruth Lafler May 15, 2009 11:53 AM

                                                                                                                      Boiling and then cooling the water to the proper temperature is less than ideal. The polyphenols are carried by the oxygen dissolved in the water, and boiling water very quickly loses its dissolved oxygen (hence the funny taste of distilled water). Water that is actually right at 212 degrees is basically useless for tea making. Water at a rolling boil is actually closer to 222 degrees, because, at a rolling boil, not all of the water is in a liquid state. The water vapor serves the same purpose as oxygen for bringing the polyphenols out from the tea leaves. So, the water needs to be over 212 or never have reached a point over 200 in order to get the most out of the tea leaves. Several kettles are available that will bring your water to the exact temperature desired; this one is the best for the money that I've tried:
                                                                                                                      http://www.adagio.com/teaware/utiliTE...
                                                                                                                      Lacking something that will shut off on reaching the right temperature, the best way to judge water temperature for green teas is the way it was done for thousands of years before temperature sensors: small wisps of steam appear on the surface of the water at about 170 degrees; the water steams noticeably at 180 degrees; the steam gets thicker and starts to move faster at about 190. Once the water gets quiet, just before it boils, the oxygen levels are diminishing rapidly.

                                                                                                                      1. re: danieljdwyer
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                                                                                                                        easily amused RE: danieljdwyer May 15, 2009 07:46 PM

                                                                                                                        DjD...
                                                                                                                        Wow...a little over the top...

                                                                                                                        1. re: danieljdwyer
                                                                                                                          limster RE: danieljdwyer May 16, 2009 02:51 AM

                                                                                                                          Other methods include looking at the size of bubbles in the water, they get bigger as the water boils. I remember a friend saying to listen for "wind in the trees" the sounds from the kettle -- apparently a good temperature for Japanese greens.

                                                                                                                      2. re: The Shepherd
                                                                                                                        limster RE: The Shepherd May 13, 2009 02:51 AM

                                                                                                                        Depending on the Chinese restaurant in question, there can be a wide range of choices. As one sits down the standard question at dim sum from waitstaff is "what type of tea?"

                                                                                                                        1. re: limster
                                                                                                                          Ruth Lafler RE: limster May 13, 2009 12:50 PM

                                                                                                                          A standard question to Asian customers, perhaps. As a Caucasian, I usually have to ask what teas are available.

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                                                                                                                            The Shepherd RE: Ruth Lafler May 13, 2009 01:03 PM

                                                                                                                            I eat Chinese ALOT, and I have never thought to ask what teas are available. I just sit down and a pot appears. HUH, have to re-think my entire life now.

                                                                                                                            1. re: The Shepherd
                                                                                                                              Ruth Lafler RE: The Shepherd May 13, 2009 02:12 PM

                                                                                                                              As limster said, it's really only with dim sum -- remember an alternate name for dim sum (the meal, not the food) is "yum cha": drink tea! Most dim sum places I know of will offer you at least three choices if you ask: the standard jasmine, pu-erh, and chrysanthemum. Some may have a more extensive selection, including higher grades of jasmine.

                                                                                                                              1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                                                                                limster RE: Ruth Lafler May 13, 2009 02:56 PM

                                                                                                                                It does depend on the restaurant. Some restaurants will ask at dinner as well. It happens more frequently at Chinese restaurants (especially ones back home in Singapore), but I've seen options for tea at both Japanese and Indian places as well.

                                                                                                                    2. re: The Shepherd
                                                                                                                      Ruth Lafler RE: The Shepherd May 12, 2009 01:43 PM

                                                                                                                      You know, I think the reason they have 20 different bagged teas is it's a way of looking like you care without making any effort beyond ordering the pre-selected assortment pushed by the sales rep -- I usually find looking over those selections that the good ones are gone (or almost gone) and you have to sift through stale bags of weird teas no one wants to find something decent. For bagged tea, I think you can make everyone happy with six: two black (one plain, one flavored, i.e., Earl Grey), one green, one oolong, two herbal.

                                                                                                                      For loose tea, I'd settle for two good teas: one black, one herbal (strictly speaking, beverages infused from herbs should be called "tisanes"). I suspect some people would insist on one oolong, but I personally can live with two choices. Although, a quarter pound of tea is neither expensive nor space-consuming -- if you're going to do loose tea, having a selection of six as described above isn't significantly more difficult or expensive than having two. Once you've decided what to serve, then you know what water temperature you need. Black teas should be brewed with boiling water; green, oolong, and herbal teas should be brewed with very hot but not quite boiling water (~180 degrees).

                                                                                                                      And of course, you can always keep a small (not fancy wooden) box with a selection of tea bags for the "don't care" folks. I'd be perfectly happy if the menu had two prices, one for loose-leaf tea properly brewed in a pot, and one for bagged tea.

                                                                                                                      1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                                                                        kattyeyes RE: Ruth Lafler May 12, 2009 02:08 PM

                                                                                                                        Would you believe with the abundance of wonderful loose teas (green, white, black, oolong, tisanes) we have in the house, one particular "visitor" can always be heard to ask, "Don't you have any 'normal' tea?" I think "normal" would be Lipton or some such. I never want to ask this person over for dinner--she is just as much of a treat with food choices as she is with tea. UGH!

                                                                                                                        1. re: kattyeyes
                                                                                                                          Ruth Lafler RE: kattyeyes May 12, 2009 02:21 PM

                                                                                                                          Gah. I know. My former housemate (and dear, dear friend), used to turn up her nose at all my teas and proudly proclaim that she preferred Lipton. Still, fine-tea appreciation is not required in my house -- I figure I can put up with their philistine tea ways, since they have to put up with the fact that I don't have any coffee in the house (I don't drink it, and previous attempts at brewing it for guests have proved disasterous -- as I learned when I failed chem lab, I can't cook up anything I can't taste).

                                                                                                                        2. re: Ruth Lafler
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                                                                                                                          lucyis RE: Ruth Lafler May 12, 2009 03:58 PM

                                                                                                                          Great idea ruth. If I just want a cup of hot beverage to accompany a dessert, or warm me on a cold night, a good quality tea bag with hot water would suffice. if I want to savor a fine tea I would pay a premium price. I don't have a need for decaf but i guess the decaf drinkers should be accommodated too with a tisane or two.

                                                                                                                          1. re: lucyis
                                                                                                                            Ruth Lafler RE: lucyis May 12, 2009 04:09 PM

                                                                                                                            I'm very caffeine sensitive, so I prefer tisanes after dinner -- they make for an excellent digestif (much better than coffee!).

                                                                                                                            BTW, I should note that loose tea seems expensive per ounce compared with coffee. However, you get five times as many servings from an ounce of tea as from an ounce of coffee, so there's not that much of a price differential.

                                                                                                                          2. re: Ruth Lafler
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                                                                                                                            tuttebene RE: Ruth Lafler May 14, 2009 07:40 AM

                                                                                                                            "I'd be perfectly happy if the menu had two prices, one for loose-leaf tea properly brewed in a pot, and one for bagged tea."

                                                                                                                            Brilliant idea!

                                                                                                                            As for my 2 cents, I would be happy with one good choice of high quality black tea , served hot, on the menu - although I love all kinds of teas, for some reason I feel that black is traditional and in keeping with fine dining and the dessert course.

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                                                                                                                          easily amused RE: lucyis May 12, 2009 02:01 PM

                                                                                                                          Where ever I go... I carry my "Decaf" Tea bags with me. You wonder about the absence of good tea offerings in restaurants today ??.... Well. the availability of Decaf is non-existent. Other then "Herbal Teas" which I don't drink...... with all of the quizzical looks I've received, I've just stopped asking and bring my own teabags. A pot of piping hot water is served to me and everything's fine. I top up the tip for this service.

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                                                                                                                            meowzebub RE: lucyis Sep 24, 2009 12:39 AM

                                                                                                                            Speaking as someone who worked in a coffee & tea shop, tea is unfortunately, just not as widely consumed in a retail (restaurant) situation.
                                                                                                                            I don't know which came first, lousy presentation/service because of little demand OR few requests because of the expectation of a terrible cup. I haven't ordered hot tea in a restaurant for over 10 years,--EXCEPT when I go to a place that is serving a "tea" (the meal)--just for this reason.
                                                                                                                            I do know the shop I worked at offered a dozen varieties of loose leaf by the cup, but when told, about 80% of people changed their orders to one of the bagged teas. On the occasions when I asked why, the answer was either that they wanted a cup "to go", which made sense; or that loose tea is too much bother & mess, which made zero sense, since I was the one brewing the tea and then cleaning up "the mess". So, maybe it's just bred in the American bone, that hot tea is a fussy thing to be avoided or dealt with as expeditiously as possible.

                                                                                                                            It's sad but I only drink hot tea in private residences (and when visiting some friends, I've learnt to drink coffee or water because of the lousy cuppa they offer).

                                                                                                                            My theory is that coffee is a restaurant staple, so commercialization has made it almost idiot proof; (also coffee tastes way better brewed in large quantities). Whereas, with high quality tea (certainly for loose leaf) different teas have different temperature and time requirements for an optimum brew. Coffee can sit several minutes after being started to no ill effect; tea is easily overbrewed and can become undrinkable. In a pinch, you can sneak out a cup of coffee in the middle of the brewing; no such thing with tea.
                                                                                                                            In other words, you need someone to actually pay attention when brewing a pot of tea. Just doesn't pay in a busy kitchen, unless most of your clientele would order tea, as in a tea shop.

                                                                                                                            1. greedygirl RE: lucyis Sep 24, 2009 05:51 AM

                                                                                                                              Here's another gripe. I'm travelling in the US at the moment and when I order tea it regularly comes with half and half rather than milk. Half and half in tea is NOT good.

                                                                                                                              7 Replies
                                                                                                                              1. re: greedygirl
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                                                                                                                                Gigi007 RE: greedygirl Sep 24, 2009 08:45 AM

                                                                                                                                greedygirl, agreed about the half and half in tea. Also, I believe you were in Washington, DC recently. We have some excellent places for tea. My favorite is a Chinese tea house called Ching Ching Cha. Tea is served in different kinds of teapots or cups based on type (artisan floral, black, green, white, etc.) and the atmosphere is lovely. And a few of the hotels here (the Park Hyatt's Tea Cellar, for example) provide excellent service and even have tea sommeliers.

                                                                                                                                I also agree that in general, there's a lot of room for improvement where tea service and quality are concerned. But IMHO, things are getting better in some locales.

                                                                                                                                1. re: Gigi007
                                                                                                                                  greedygirl RE: Gigi007 Sep 25, 2009 06:08 AM

                                                                                                                                  That's good to know, Gigi. We are long gone from DC unfortunately (loved your city). I have resigned myself to drinking coffee now for the duration, expecially at breakfast in hotels/B&Bs. Had an OK earl grey last night at a restaurant in Charleston but the hot water came in a tiny pot with the bag on the side. :-(

                                                                                                                                  1. re: greedygirl
                                                                                                                                    yayadave RE: greedygirl Sep 25, 2009 10:57 AM

                                                                                                                                    The truth is that many, many places here serve bad/weak coffee, too.

                                                                                                                                    1. re: yayadave
                                                                                                                                      greedygirl RE: yayadave Sep 26, 2009 04:58 AM

                                                                                                                                      That's very true, but my dirty secret is I'm not much of a coffee drinker so the weak stuff suits me fine. Have had some really nasty stuff though!

                                                                                                                                    2. re: greedygirl
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                                                                                                                                      Gigi007 RE: greedygirl Sep 25, 2009 11:02 AM

                                                                                                                                      Glad to hear you enjoyed DC. The tea situation around the country could be better, but there are some bright spots here and there. Enjoy the rest of your trip.

                                                                                                                                  2. re: greedygirl
                                                                                                                                    Caitlin McGrath RE: greedygirl Sep 24, 2009 07:48 PM

                                                                                                                                    Once more, the tyranny of the coffee service! Not an issue for me, as I only take it in my coffee, but it is certainly wrong for tea.

                                                                                                                                    1. re: Caitlin McGrath
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                                                                                                                                      comestible RE: Caitlin McGrath Sep 24, 2009 08:10 PM

                                                                                                                                      Wow, April to September. Apparently this thread has legs. Tea power! :)

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                                                                                                                                    jeanmarieok RE: lucyis Sep 25, 2009 06:15 AM

                                                                                                                                    I am not a fanactical tea drinker, but I like what I like, so I carry my own tea bags. Before I order tea, I ask what kind of tea they serve. Usually I get a blank stare. When that happens, I'll order tea, asking for a pot of boiling water, and the tea bag on the side. 9 times out of 10, it works out just fine, and I end up with a much better pot of tea. What are these fancy tea bags that I prefer? Nothing special, but I carry Twinings Earl Grey and Breakfast tea, and usually a couple of Tazo flavored teas. See, it wouldn't be hard for the restaurant to please me, but too many only offer a dusty old orange pekoe.

                                                                                                                                    3 Replies
                                                                                                                                    1. re: jeanmarieok
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                                                                                                                                      Gigi007 RE: jeanmarieok Sep 25, 2009 11:04 AM

                                                                                                                                      I do that too. It depends on the kind of restaurant as to whether or not I'll whip out my own tea bags. I do that in more informal places. I also like to make tea in my hotel room. I carry both tea bags and loose leaf tea w/ me on most trips.

                                                                                                                                      1. re: Gigi007
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                                                                                                                                        comestible RE: Gigi007 Sep 25, 2009 10:12 PM

                                                                                                                                        When I travel, I carry loose tea and a small porcelain pot with strainer holes, called a cebei. Works for most every tea, but I wish the strainer holes were smaller. Works best at hotels with continental breakfast, where you can go up to the urn and get your own hot water.

                                                                                                                                        1. re: comestible
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                                                                                                                                          Gigi007 RE: comestible Sep 26, 2009 07:52 AM

                                                                                                                                          For the loose tea, I carry a tea strainer spoon. It's much lighter and convenient than a teapot although I do like my teapots. I have a small collection of English, Chinese, Japanese, and Russian teapots that I love.

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