spaghetti alla carbonara
I'm looking at three recipes for spaghetti alla carbonara. Mario Batali calls for 8 ounces guanciale or pancetta and 4 eggs per pound of pasta. Tyler Florence calls for 4 ounces of pancetta and 2 eggs per pound of pasta and Anne Burrell calls for 3/4 cup of pancetta and 8 eggs per pound of pasta. The variance in the amount of pancetta and eggs is really throwing me. How much do you use?
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Wow! This thread REALLY sent me down a rabbit hole!
I like Lidia! She uses 2 yolks per pound of pasta:
I like Lidia! She says to retain the bacon grease in the dish so you can get the full benefit of it's "pronounced flavor"!
Did I mention that I like Lidia? (She's actually the only TV chef I can stand to watch these days
)And if you like a bit of cream, this one sounds pretty good too:
http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/nigella-lawson/spaghetti-alla-carbonara-recipe/index.html
And if you're a "simple-ist" (won't say a purist for reasons to be revealed) try this:
http://www.tommyeats.com/tommyeats/2006/08/carbonara.html
The article someone referred to here is kind of funny for how self-contradictory it is. At one point in the article, they say:
"A more likely provenance originates in Rome, sometime after 1945, when American troops residing in Italy after the Second World War combined their rations of bacon and eggs with the pasta and cheese dishes traditionally served there."
Then later they complain about people using "inauthentic" ingredients, decrying the use of pancetta instead of guanciale, or any cheese other than (specifically) Pecorino Romano
C'mon! If the origins of this dish are Americans adding their ration of bacon and eggs to locally obtained pasta and cheese, how did we get to the requirement that only cured meats specific to Italy and largely unavailable in the US are the "right" ingredients? I doubt the GIs were running around demanding ONLY Pecorino Romano cheese to be used in this dish, either! LOL!
If you want to be authentic it seems US style bacon and government issue eggs are the way to go!
This site debunks ALL the mythical origins of pasta carbonara:
http://www.itchefs-gvci.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=189&Itemid=824
Here's another recipe that sounds good, with a little bit of discussion about origins and "authenticity":
http://www.lifeinitaly.com/food/spaghetti-alla-carbonara
Basically nobody knows where it came from or why it's called what it's called. (Maybe for the smoky flavor of US-style bacon?
)This reference aroused my curiosity even more (funny how asking a question invariably leads to lots more questions):
http://books.google.com/books?id=D5nX...
Click on P 202. On p 202 and 203, it talks about a dish called Pencarelli or pincarelle. This dish sounds very like pasta alla carbonara. I can't tell from what I can see of the book how "old" this dish is (when was it being made that way?) but I would guess it's been around awhile.
So why does it not get any credit? Take out the sausage, add pepper, and it sounds pretty much the same to me. Oh well!
All the recipes people have shared sound delicious. Especially given the kind of cloudy origins of this dish, I don't think "authenticity" needs to be an important factor. But that's just me. I say eat what tastes good to you.
Mange! Mange!
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re: ZenSojourner
Jacques Pépin: More Fast Food My Way, has a dish that reminds me of carbonara
http://www.kqed.org/w/morefastfoodmyw... (starting at 13 min
)Gnocchi with Eggs and Scallions
He prepares store bought gnocchi, and finishes them with chopped scallion, and barely cooked eggs. Cheese is just a garnish.
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...are you really going to argue with batali? go with batali's ratio. Tyler Florence is cool but not that cool!
also the first word in Rachael Ray's version is Bacon., but she does say panchetta in the recipe. Her recipe seems fine so I won't throw anything at becqui except for some love - and maybe a set of cute boots to help with the tomato storm
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I'm going to go full-on heretical and admit that I like the Rachael Ray version. I'm putting my raincoat on and waiting for the hail of rotten tomatoes now...
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Every time I read these posts I read the {foreign to me} "pig" word as Guayaquil, in Ecuador. Really every time then I have to remember it's that pork product. Funny to me
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Being a big fan of spaghetti alla carbonara I'm delighted to share with you my favourite recipe. Try it and you won't go wrong.
Ingredients:
120 grams of spaghetti
1 whole egg and one egg yolk
30 grams of guanciale
1 clove of garlic
dry white wine
3 tablespoons of the water in which you coocked your pasta
plenty of pecorino romano and parmigiano reggiano
freshly ground black pepper and saltMix one egg, one egg yolk, little bit of percorino and parmigiano in a bowl. Add some black pepper and a little bit of salt.
Put your spaghetti in the plenty of salted water (until it cooks to al dente. Normally you will have it al dente if you cook it 1 minute/1 and 1/2 minutes less the cookcing time indicated on the box).
In the meantime fry the guanicale (cut into little pieces) on a large pen using a bit (do not use much because guanciale has its own fat) olove oil. Once the gianciale becomes semi-crispy, add some garlic and black pepper (unless the guanicale is already seasones with a black pepper), mix using a wooden spoon. Put one spoon of pasta water into a frying pan, mix again and remove the garlic. Set the pan aside. When pasta has almost become al dente put the pan back on the stove and add a little bit of white wine. In the meantime take your past off the stove but before draining, save about 3 tablespoons of pasta water. Once alcohol has evaporated from the wine (this will take about 30 seconds) put your pasta into the frying pan and mix well (but gently) with a wooden spoon. Add more cheese and mix again. Set aside and add youe pasta water. After that add your egg and cheese mixture into the frying pen (remember! the pan is now off the heat!!) and mix again very gently. Your cabonara is now ready to serve. Put some cheese on a plate and then place your pasta on top of it, addign some more cheese and freshly ground black pepper.
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re: iL Divo
I made this last week using 'authentic' ingredients (guanciale, pecorino romano, egg yolks, freshly cracked black pepper) and I tried rigatoni instead of one of the usual noodles. I'm always surprised at how big a difference the type of pasta has on the dish. Everything can change from how the ingredients coat the noodles, how much food fits onto a fork, how you put the food into your mouth, etc. It was great but I think I prefer spaghetti for ease of consumption.
I recommend something fresh and crisp to cut through the fat afterwards.
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I'm from Rome, the city of carbonara, and I can assure you that there are few ingrendients in real carbonara:
pasta (preferably "rigatoni")
"guanciale" (pork jowl) or pancetta (bacon)
pepper in abundance
olive oil
eggs.Anything else
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re: cosmopolita
then I'm gonna tend to believe you.
I'll restate my point, call if what you want, eat it how you want, include the ingredients you like, but bottom line here is it's delicious :)
I'm envious where you're from cosmopolita............
oh to sit in Rome and enjoy the beauty and fragrances coming from everywhere, you're very fortunate.............
just to say I made it correctly, in a few days for hubby and myself, I'll make it your way, rigatoni, ok, rigatoni it'll be.......................thanks for sharing.........-
re: iL Divo
Yes, for some reason the accepted pasta forms for carbonara are either rigatoni/tortiglioni or spaghetti, a relatively unusual situation because Italians seem to have a fairly stringent idea of what pasta form factor "goes" with what sauce, usually within narrow limits).
My husband would grumble seriously at a carbonara served with penne, fusilli, or bucatini but spaghetti or rigatoni is ok. Go figure.
Cheese = pecorino romano or pecorino romano + parmigiano
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re: mt7187
You have already read this article?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GuancialeSometimes we substitute the "guanciale" with the bacon (no smoked) but I do not know if in the United States you have the same our products...
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I said I'd post and the kids are gone now and hubby's in bed so it's time.
Dinner all together was perfect.
A little slow, with body part that ache, it was a mishmosh of how to do it quickly by the time they got home, but it all worked out.
For the carbonara, 3/4 lb pasta, 4 oz. applewood peppered bacon, 2 jumbo eggs, 1T butter, 2T heavy cream, 1/2 cup snow peas out of their shell, in total 1/2 cup of combined cheese, the pecorino parm and romano, pasta water to thin sauce.
Perfect, maybe not what some would call true carbonara, but no matter to me as it's subjective anyway, it was perfect. -
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mbfant is right on here.
If you want to think "authentic/rustic Italian", start thinking "no refrigeration". Eggs here are almost always stored and sold at room temp. Cheese can stay at room temp. Cured meat can stay at room temp, as can vegetables.
If I shopped like most Italian ladies used to (going out every day for what is needed), I could easily get by w/o a refrigerator. My MIL stores leftovers in the oven; no one has died or gotten sick yet.
Mario's recipe sounds fine. What I do, usually, is go with half whole eggs and half yolks, for a medium richness: for two people I use one egg and one yolk. I don't measure the cheese, but grate it directly into the beaten egg, mixing until it has the consistency of cake batter.
What NOT to include: cream, garlic (blech), wine (double blech), vegetables other than (possibly) onion, but even that borders on heresy. What you CAN include is a splash of vinegar as you are sauteing the pancetta; this is supposed to "cut" the grease and make it brown more nicely. I have this on authority of a Tuscan/Roman friend of ours.
All the recipes noted seem to add a good deal of extra oil. I add only a drizzle if any. You should wait and see how much fat renders out of your pancetta/guanciale.
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re: Whats_For_Dinner
WFD, you don't need a cool basement to make guanciale. The drying time is short, compared to prosciutto or salami, and if the temperature is relatively cool (75F or less) you can just hang it in the kitchen. I haven't tried it, but I've read you can even dry it on a rack in the fridge. The only hard part is finding the pig jowls.
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re: lidia
Gotta agree with you, lidia. I would say that I made a pasta like a carbonara with some changes rather than saying I made carbonara. I saw an episode of Giada's show where she was cooking matriciana with her Italian aunt. They made a lovely pasta dish, and then Giada told her aunt to put meatballs in with it. The aunt recoiled in horror; it was pretty funny. She said, "No, if you do that, it's not matriciana." Italian food is pretty adaptable and you can make anything you like, and that's fun to do and fun to experiment, but I'm in the camp that believes that there are certain basics that establish a vocabulary -- carbonara is a dish that doesn't have cream, and matriciana is not matriciana with meatballs. Both iterations can be fabulous, but call them something else!
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re: lidia
As pointed out in the article I linked on May 2, producing the right creaminess with just the egg and cheese requires some finesse. Adding cream makes the procedure more forgiving. This is plus in a restaurant where the cooks having varying skills, and the time between preparation and serving is unpredictable.
Older editions of Joy of Cooking have a 'Pasta with egg and cheese'. That fries the bacon, and then adds some wine, and reduces it till evaporated. The cheese is mixed Parmesan and Romano. I used that as my guide long before I heard the name 'carbonara'. Often I'd include some garlic or shallot in the wine phase, and use what ever bacon or ham I had on hand.
The only time I have bought cured port jowl was on a camping trip on Vancouver Island. While locally made (Port Alberni) it probably was inspired by a product common on the Atlantic coast (not Italy).
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oh I'm gonna enjoy this thread.
have read many posts or threads on here just now regarding this delicious treat.
now on to reading the 48 responses, I'm sure by the time I'm done there'll be 49 :)oh yea, loved reading this.
I concur with the addition of even 2 T of butter.
to me, the richness, albeit an artery clogger, is worth it for flavor since I may eat this only once a year at most. also, I don't want to muck it up using the shrooms/bell peppers/shallots ets, but must agree I love it made with cream and without cream, either way, my tastebuds are happy and but not very discriminating.as much as I think MB is genius when it comes to cooking Italian and his obvious knowledge behind his way of doing things, I'm not impressed with TF at all, sorry, and agree about the too many times I've watched AB on her tv show, not impressed. I'd stick with MB simply because he knows his stuff, as does his dad at Salumi's in Seattle, what great meat there.
Agree with Lucygoosey about the peas, to me, when I've made it before, peas are just a part of carbonara.
Jfood, I love the 3rd musketeer analogy :)
Kchurchill, me too, love reading recipes but also love to deviate.
mbFant, I liked reading your text.
phantomdoc, love the new name you rendered.Ok, it's on. tonight this is dinner with other stuff like on the grill salmon sitting in olive oil lemon juice salt and pepper and salad with everything, garlic bread of course, and dessert of who knows what................
I'll post when the meal is done
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I love it with or with out peas, I prefer bacon over pancetta, I use Hazen's recipe with wine and shallots, I have always added a little cream as it seemed a little dry, she doesn't use as many eggs as Mario. Next time I make it which might be tonight I am going the yolk only route without cream. The most amazing thing I do with this dish is I use fresh pasta. Fresh pasta makes a world of difference in any pasta dish. I am also a fan or pecorino over Parm. My family love carbonara and we make it a lot it is always so good and soulful
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re: Analisas mom
The reason your dish seems dry is because you are using fresh pasta - carbonara was treatment designed for dried pasta, which is not quite as absorbant as fresh pasta. Your fresh pasta is soaking up more liquid than dry pasta would. So you need to use more liquid - the pasta cooking liquid is the more classic remedy than cream. If you use only yolks, you will run less risk of curdling (egg whites curdle more quickly than the yolks).
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re: Karl S
When I use cream also I usually warm lightly (I admit, just in the micro on low and add the eggs with it), just enough so when added to the pasta it doesn't cook or curdle. Something I do to prevent it. One night while not paying attention added them and had scrambled eggs. Had too many things going on and just didn't think. So I just that in the micro and never had a problem.
And yes Karl, fresh ... needs way more liquid. I prefer dry.
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re: c oliver
I whisked the egg and cheese together in a bowl. I added the pasta to the pan with the pancetta, mixed it around a bit and turned off the heat. Then I added the egg and cheese mixture to the pan, along with some chopped parsley and a little of the pasta water to loosen the sauce. It worked out well - there wasn't any curdling.
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i am glad to see that mrs hazen opens the door to subbing in good slab bacon. we can purchase very good bacon from heir loom pork breeders. at the same time, we can get only so-so italian pork products.
oh--and another "yes" on cream. the history of carbonnara as a dish is contextually short so this hardly constitutes heresy.
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re: silverhawk
Actually the history isn't that short. It belongs to the group of pastas native to the mountains of Lazio and Abruzzo that can be cooked outdoors with easily portable (hunk of cured pork) or easily obtainable (couple of fresh eggs) ingredients, and a tablespoon of cream is clearly an indoor luxury and so not what the Italians call philological. The pork products of the Apennines of central Italy are cured without smoking, so neither is bacon. And neither is parmigiano, though most people bend the rules to admit a combination of parmigiano and pecorino romano (which is the traditional cheese). A little pasta water would be the normal way to achieve the effect of cream. In any case, it is in the spirit of traditional Italian cooking to use the ingredients one has, and carbonara lends itself to variation. The only thing that isn't fair, i would say, is adding unusual ingredients and insisting it's still carbonara.
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re: mbfant
I'm going to try just using pecorino romano next time. I used to use only parmesan, as I wasn't a huge fan of the sharpness of pecorino romano, but now use some of each, and I think that the sharpness gives the dish an additional "kick", as does some white wine - I think the acidity balances out the dish nicely.
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Didn't read every post, so hopefully I'm not repeating. Per pound of dry pasta, I use 3 yolks and 2-3 whole eggs. 4-8 oz of guanciale and about 4 tbls of butter. Comes out great everytime (I make my own guanciale, so it is tailored to this dish--some pancetta is saltier or less flavorful than other, so vary by that).
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re: hankstramm
I have use the Batalli recipe in "Simple Italian Food" and received high praise. My wife spent some time as a student in Italy. She mentioned she hadn't had carbonara like that since Italy, and had missed it terribly.
When rocking pasta dishes always differ to fat dudes with Italian surnames.
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this may be heresy to some, but jfood does like heavy cream in his carbonara. a couple of eggs, whipped up with some cream and trhen add the cheese. Cook about 1/3 pound of pasta. When done throw the pasta into the pan with the pancetta or bacon (not a fan of guanciale in carbonara) and add the sauce with some fresh pepper. Variations include a couple of shallots with the bacon which jfood prefers as well.
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re: c oliver
That'd be what I'd call it. If I'm going to eat Carbonara, I want that silky egg mouthfeel with the smoky pork taste behind it..if I'm eating a cream sauce, it ain't Carbonara, AFAIC.
All that said, I'm thinking of an as yet unnamed dish that puts the base of carbonara together with shallots, mushrooms, peas, slivered bell peppers, and maybe cream. All this talk of what does and doesn't go where leads me to put it all in one place.
Maybe next weekend.
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re: c oliver
Actually, peas might be a good idea.
Here's what I did. I rendered 6 oz of pancetta (cut in 1/4-inch cubes) in some olive oil. I added the cooked pasta (al dente) and let it absorb the sauce (well, the fat) for about a minute. Then I turned off the heat and added 4 eggs, 1 cup of parm and pepper. I added some of the pasta cooking water to loosen it a bit. It was easy and delicous. The stuffed artichokes on the other hand not so much! Too much work and a soggy stuffing, which I attribute to too much water in the pot. -
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re: jfood
If jfood is only using one lowly tbsp. of cream, and he's whipping it up with the eggs, he might as well call it butter and be done with it. I like my carb. w/out cream as I find it unctuous enough with the guanciale fat and the eggs, but how could 1 tbsp. of cream render your carbonara "in-authentic"?. It sounds good and I might have to deviate the next time I make a carbonara. Vive la creme! adam
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re: jfood
I agree jfood. I also like heavy cream but understand the differences. I use around 8 oz and 3 eggs usually and sometimes a little white wine, but not always. My variations come with what happens to be in the fridge. I do agree I like the cheese, shallots too at times.
I guess I don't have a standard, bacon, pancetta, whatever is in the fridge.
I'm not a recipe follower at all. I like to adapt a recipt or take the method and make it mine. I always like the surprise of what it will taste like. Sticking with many of the original ingredients I know the base is fine ... sometimes it is a bit better than other times, but always enjoyable. I like to try different variations which to me is always fun.
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I use only egg yolks, and vary my proportions.
The Silver Spoon, another Italian reference resource, gives the following:
2T butter
heaping 1/2 cup pancetta, diced
1 garlic clove
12 oz spaghetti
2 eggs, beaten
1/2 cup each Parmigiano & Romano cheeses
Salt & pepperCooks Illustrated Issue 52 has the following ingredients for one pound of spaghetti:
1/4 cup EVOO
1/2 lb bacon
1/2 cup dry wine
3 large eggs
3/4 cup Parmigiano
1/4 cup Romano
3 garlic cloves
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I'll muddy the water further and give the link for Hazan's carbonara which many here think (me too) is the best:
http://fooddownunder.com/cgi-bin/reci...
Just make sure you add any cream (or at least don't confess to it) or people will get upset :)
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Based on a friend's recommendation, I switched to only using egg yolks in my carbonara, no whites, so my measurements are going to be quite a bit different due to the volume change. For a full pound of pasta, I would probably use 6-8 yolks and about 6-8 ounces of pancetta (or closest to Battali's recipe) That's a lot of pasta to coat.


















