CHEZ PANISSE

[Baron]

Has anyone been to Chez Panisse lately? I want to plan a lunch or dinner for about eight people probably at the upstairs in late May. Any comments or suggestions. Their website is down - I cant get on it.

[chemchef]

The website is up and running, just tried it and got on fine. Also, you should probably post this on the San Francisco Bay Area board, rather than here.

[Baron]

I've tried their website on two different computers and still cant get on. Do you have their phone number handy?

[lexdevil]

Definitely working right now. Are you certain that you're spelling it correctly?

http://www.chezpanisse.com/

Downstairs reservations: [phone]

Upstairs reservations: [phone]

[Robert Lauriston]

It's working for me. You should call [phone] at 9am one month before the day you want the reservation.

http://www.chezpanisse.com/pgreservat...

[Baron]

I still cant get in. I've certainly got in before. I'm in Los Angeles - maybe that has something to do with it. Very Strange. I'll just have to call. I'm going the end of May so I should be able to score a table. Thanks for trying.

[uhockey]

I went. I reviewed. http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/6000...

It spurred quite a debate, actually.

[bbulkow]

That's an understatement!

There's little we can add here that wasn't said in that thread.

[Baron]

Do you think that the time of year has something to do with the quality of the food. I notice that your review was in February.

[Robert Lauriston]

uhockey had good things to say about the ingredients. Monterey squid, cardoons, rocket, marjoram, and potatoes are all very much in season in February.

People's expectations of Chez Panisse are sometimes so high that a just-OK meal turns into the worst meal ever.

[Robert Lauriston]

They've updated their Web site and added a mailing list.

http://www.chezpanisse.com

[carmen8151]

I went to Panisse on July 11, 2009. I had a reservation for 1 for 10 PM. I went to the Cafe upstairs. I was given a menu immediately and told they were running about 10 minutes late. I was only one in line for a table. The "manager" seated 3 couples before me. I then asked him if there was a problem with seating one person. He told me "there is no difference between seating one and seating two people." I was seated at 10:30 and waitress brought me a menu. I ordered and then 10 minutes later she came over to apologize that she had given me the wrong menu. I read it , chose appetizer and entree and ordered again. I had pizzetta with dried shad as appetizer and lamb sausages with cannoli beans, Both were very good, not outstanding... I ate only half of both items as I wanted to order dessert. Another server packaged up those items in a to go container. I waited 20 minutes and no waitress. I finally got the attention of another server and told him to bring my check. My original waitress never came back to my table. I paid the bill- which included 17% gratuity for bad service, I might add... I walked up to the "manager" and told him that I thought I had been treated badly because I was a solo customer and that I also believed I had waited too long after I had finished my entree. I was truly hoping to have a good experience here as I respect Alice Waters and all that she has done but I will not be going back.

[eatzalot]

Robert L's general remark above re expectations rings true, by the way. Concerning carmen8151's report, I've never had such bad service there, and if it were my introduction to any restaurant it would certainly be discouraging. That said, I also know that 10PM on what's traditionally the busiest US restaurant night (Saturday) is not a set-up for a good or typical view of any restaurant. (I don't think I've ever gone to Chez Panisse Café on a Saturday night for that reason, and avoid that time with other restaurants too.) The posting also complains of three couples seated before someone with a reservation, but does not mention the reservation status of those couples, leaving unclear whether they had still earlier reservations, and/or stepped out for a walk around the block while waiting, as customers there sometimes do.

[chefj]

The whole idea that being busy is an excuse for restaurants of this caliber (or any) to have crap service or food is ridiculous. At peak times they should operating a the same quality levels. If not they need to limit their seating. The customer pays the same high price.And at CP is charged a 17% gratuity fro good or bad service.
People have high expectations because Chez Panisse has created them. If they are higher than the restaurant can deliver than loss of your reputation should be the logical result. I think that the lengthy debate that any mention of CP creates is a sign that this is at work

[eatzalot]

I completely agree with you, chefj, that restaurants should furnish consistently high service, and many do. That's part of the picture here. But as a customer, I also can make choices to maximize the likelihood of good service, even if a restaurant falls short of that ideal, and many do. That's why Jim Quinn titled his book about US restaurants "But Never Eat Out on a Saturday Night." With Panisse, I started hearing expectations many years ago, sometimes clearly unrelated to the reality, but instead projected by hearers of the "buzz." And negative reports from a single, but atypical, experience befall all restaurants.

[chefj]

I think that the fact that every mention of Chez Panisse creates a long string debate show that this is not an atypical experience.
I do not think that the expectation to have a great dinning experience there came out of nowhere. If so how could it have been a fine dining destination for so many years? or for that matter a fine dinning destination at all. As I stated before at this level of restaurant what night you are there should not matter.

[eatzalot]

My point on atypicality was, rather, that restaurants, not just Panisse, often get negative comments from single visits unrepresentative of what the same diner might think after more experience. Someone wrote that if customers like their dinner, they tell several friends, but if they don't like it, they tell the world.

Panisse is two restaurants at one address. The reputation developed in the 1970s, downstairs, before the Café existed. I saw it develop. One reason I always distinguish the two is that expectations due to the restaurant (the original "Chez Panisse") are sometimes transferred inappropriately to the much more informal Café.

[chefj]

I understand that CP is 2 restaurants. I believe that my statements are still applicable. The Cafe is no cheap eats spot, and informal or not, bad service is not o.k. or understandable. Of course it is up to the individual whether they want to give it a second chance or not.
Your statement about happy patrons telling 2 people and unhappy ones tell 20 (which is how I remember the quote), should actually serve to reduce the expectations that people form about a restaurant, so actually I do not get the relevance.

[KathyM]

chefj, I completely understand your logic and is with you 100%. I haven't been to CP cafe (only the restaurant). While my experience is not as bad as some of the other posters here, it wasn't that great either. The notion that one should change our expectation to greater maximize our dining experience for any restaurant is completely ridiculous. And while I didn't do a count from this post and many other posts about CP, it seems like the percentage of people experiencing bad service/bad dining experience is not insignificant. Not sure why the pro-CP people are still insisting that it's atypical. Please do the math and let us have our opinion.

[chefj]

Math is not my strong point ( - ;

[eatzalot]

We may be seeing symptoms of a real problem in the front of CPC. To clarify, CP/CPC are NOT among my favorite or frequent hangouts, I don't go as often as, for example, Robert L. I strongly support honest opinion, and have no patience for miserable service either.

I do point out wide conclusions coming from only one visit, or that seem to read a cause behind something without considering other explanations (the three couples). Just because diners who know a restaurant better sometimes question a newcomer's extrapolations doesn't mean they disrespect the author's honest report and opinion, or "attack" the author, or are smitten fans. Surely that's reasonable.

[chefj]

What "new comers extrapolations"? Carmen 8151 merely wrote what her experience was. She did not extrapolate from there or "come to any wide conclusions".

[carmen8151]

I own the cookbook and have used it many times. I also follow Alice Water's website and have read many articles and seen several TV specials about her.

[Robert Lauriston]

The server going missing and nobody taking over is the only real problem I see in carmen8151's post.

The host's ten-minute estimate of the wait was wrong, but later on a busy night it's anybody's guess how long people who have finished their meals are going to linger at the table before leaving, The people who were seated ahead of carmen8151 most likely checked in earlier and took a walk or were sitting outside. That's par for the course for any packed place later on a busy night.

[rccola]

CP, only a few blocks from my house, is NOT one of my favorites. In fact, I get yearly presents of dinner gift certificates and give them to my children, though they often complain about the service or the lack of specialness of the (free to them) food. Yeah, it can be fresh California produce/meat/fish served there, but now there are dozens of other restaurants that do the same without the attitude and without the hype. So Alice Waters started something. So what. If she doesn't care to make sure that the next generations of diners have a sterling experience for the money she ought to dissociate herself. I think we do a disservice here urging people to travel over to Berkeley except to say, "If you want to brag you went to the famous Chez Panisse, fine. But don't expect it to reliably live up to its reputation. On the other hand, your envious friends in Peoria won't know."

[carmen8151]

FYI the couples seated before me- 3 sets of them- walked in AFTER me- I was clearly there before they were. They did not register before me nor step out for a walk. I got the reservation for 10 PM because that was the only time available- I contacted them as soon as I knew I was making this trip. In addition, I was only spending ONE night in Berkeley before returning home early the next day.

[Robert Lauriston]

When service is that bad, it's reasonable to ask the manager to take the service charge off the bill. I doubt being a solo customer had anything to do with the unfortunately awful service. Given the details, it sounds like maybe the server handling your table went home and the remaining servers were disorganized in covering your table.

I've been eating in the cafe several times a year since it opened and have never had a problem, unless you count the two-hour wait for a table in the old days.

[susancinsf]

If the manager had really been focused on the service, he would have taken the gratuity off the bill when the complaint was made, without having to be asked.

I did think that the host on duty the last time I was there (no idea if he was the manager, but he was the one seating people, etc.) had more than a bit of attitude, which was something I have never previously experienced on visits to the Cafe (or on the two or so times I've eaten downstairs). Well, I did have a server roll his eyes behind a colleague's back one time, but the colleague was being very rude and probably deserved it. (and I was trying to crawl under the table and pretend I wasn't part of that group...) Apart from that instance and my last visit, service has always been lovely. However, since I noticed the host on the last visit also showing the same attitude with other patrons, and since I've heard several complaints about front of house at the Cafe lately, I can't help but wonder if there isn't a problem. I do know that had my last visit been my first, I wouldn't have had much interest in returning, even though I enjoyed the food.

I also wonder if you eat there often enough to be recognized as a regular. When the problem is one of attitude, sometimes just being a regular is enough to overcome it. (not that it should matter, of course, I can understand particularly generous treatment for regulars, but attitude I just never can get, double so in a place that intends to be casual.)

[Robert Lauriston]

When we eat upstairs, it's usually at slower times on weeknights. I haven't eaten upstairs during dinner rush in years.

Chez Panisse has a lot of customers who eat there every week. I don't go there nearly often enough to register as a regular. I don't know that I've seen the same server twice.

[carmen8151]

The servier did NOT go home. She was there the entire time.

[Robert Lauriston]

A friend sent me a copy of the menu from the first garlic week in 1976. We went on Bastille Day and had:

Whole baked garlic heads served with peasant breads and white cheese with green onlons

Provençal vegetable soup with a liaison of fresh basil & garlic

Brochettes of fresh fish grilled with whole garlics and branches of thyme

Barons of lamb charcoal-roasted, served with a gratin of eggplant

Figs cooked with garlic, honey, and red wine

$20 (included half a bottle of Chez Panisse Zinfandel)

[steve h.]

1976?

That probably means Jeremiah Tower was in the kitchen. Very nice piece of history.

How was the meal?

[Robert Lauriston]

The whole heads of garlic were memorable since that was the first time I had or heard of them. As I recall we couldn't really taste the garlic in the lamb or figs.

[steve h.]

Links?

Just kidding.

That was a pretty special time, a pretty special meal. Good for you.

[rworange]

Sure we don't care about lists ... but still

The 50 best things to eat in the world, and where to eat them
\http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/sep/13/best-foods-in-the-world

Best place to eat: California cuisine
"Chez Panisse doesn't just do the world's best Californian food: it is quite simply the best restaurant in the world. Superb."

If you want to coment on the article it is on the News and Media board in this link
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/652904

Happy Girl tomato juice was also named oneof the 50 best things to eat in the world.

To find the best things to eat in the Bay Area, sign up for the Chowing with the hounds picnic
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/652687