NYC Italian

[leo3505]

We live in Dallas, where there are NO talian restaurant worthy of anything. We're making our annual pilgrimage to Manhattan to eat as much Italian as possible. But here's the dilemma. I'm the foodie, my wife has very parochial taste, but loves Italian. She's more of a red sauce, baked manicotti kind of person whereas I REALLY enjoy food. We're staying mid-town but don't care much about going anywhere. Not a Batali fan (to avant garde for her, I'm tired of his schtick). Any recomendations, greatly appreciated.

[Miss Rennie]

You might consider John's on East 12th Street (not affiliated with John's the famous pizza place). Old school, and really good. Or Bianca, on Bleecker Street, a Romagna-area restaurant with the best lasagne (bechamel sauce in the layers!) I've ever had. And really inexpensive. Plenty of choice for you both.

[scoopG]

Welcome to CH leo3505.

"Search this Board" is a useful tool, especially on a oft repeated query such as NYC Italian.

Here are four very recent threads to get you started:

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/611386?tag=main_body;topic-611386
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/610662?tag=main_body;topic-610662
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/611798?tag=main_body;topic-611798
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/6065...

[Pan]

Just so you know, Batali is hardly avant garde. For that, you'd have to go to WD-50 or some place like that.

I get what you want, though. You'd probably like Il Cortile in Little Italy. I haven't been there in years, and I think there's much better Italian in Manhattan, but it was perfectly good, though somewhat overpriced (not horrifically) and touristy, when I did go there, with generous portions, and it sounds like the kind of place you're looking for. I'd also second Miss Rennie's suggestion of John's, but as a couple, I think Il Cortile is more what you're looking for. Perhaps closer to where you're staying in Midtown (where is that, exactly?), you'll probably enjoy Becco. I was unimpressed with the place when I last ate there (a couple of days before Il Cortile), but they serve a lot of pasta, a lot of very usual Italian fare, and some hounds like the place.

If you get that I'm unexcited about what you're looking for, you're right, but not because I don't love traditional Italian-American food. As a matter of fact, I grew up eating a lot of it, because my mother cooked a lot of ziti with tomato sauce and meatballs or meat sauce, and I loved it! I also know how to cook such dishes, though I seldom cook anything, nowadays. But I don't know anyplace in Manhattan that makes such a good version of these things that I'd prefer it to a place like Lupa or, for that matter, a more Tuscan place like Supper - which aren't what you're looking for. One of these days, when I have enough nickles together, I'm going to go for some Italian-American specialties at Queen in Downtown Brooklyn, which a lot of hounds on the Outer Boroughs board say serves the best "red sauce" dishes in the Five Boroughs (they also serve other fare).

[bnemes3343]

Look, I love Il Cortile. For a place in Little Italy, I find it one of the best. But to put it in the same conversation with Batali's/Bastianich's places is a little absurd. Leo, if you want to avoid Batali's places, that will be your loss and I guess you will settle for manicotti on Mulberry street. But if you really are serous about great Italian food, then don't miss Lupa, Esca, Del Posto or Babbo. Otherwise grab a slice of cardboard at Original Ray's...

[Pan]

You know you aren't arguing with my opinion. But if someone says they don't want a Batali place, I don't tell them to go to one.

[planetjess]

While I wouldn't suggest this if you were only going to eat one Italian meal (in which case it'd probably better be exactly the red sauce your wife is looking for), since you're talking about eating as much Italian as possible, I think Scalini Fedeli would be a good choice for one of the meals. It's definitely not red sauce, but it would give you a beautiful high-end meal that will a) not be challenging for someone with unadventurous tastes but b) should satisfy someone who, like you, seems to really want good food. I think it can also be very romantic, and feel like a real treat. I always leave there feeling like I've just been hugged.

My cunning plan here is that it is sufficiently good that it just might expand your wife's horizons re: acceptable Italian a bit to your benefit, while non-scary enough that you really shouldn't feel bad about applying a little bit of gentle pressure to stretch beyond the manicotti for an evening.

[acidity]

Dell Anima, definitely not red sauce Italian, but enough zesty pastas (excellent homemade) to please an inauthentic traditionalist. Atmosphere, cramped, young, busy. Not stodgy, not quiet, not touristy. It has a "younger sister" restaurant L'Artusi that I am not familiar with but I'm pretty sure would be in the ballpark.

Felidia has excellent traditional northern Italian food. High end, but the polar opposite of Batali, subtle flavors pleasing to a sophisticate, nothing avant garde. Tilt your ordering to the front half, the antipasti and primi. Atmosphere is quiet close to stodgy but elegant.

Convivio: many people love and enjoy, southern Italian food, modern preparations. I really don't like it (I think it's a simplistic formula that does not "come together"), but it is very popular, highly rated, and fits your criteria.

[rrems]

I completely disagree with regard to Convivio. How is it "simplistic"??? I also would not recommend it to the OP even though it is a favorite of mine. I am a big fan of organ meats, game dishes and modern versions of Italian cooking. I don't think this is at all what they are looking for. For the same reason, Babbo would be a bad choice, as would Lupa. Crispo has veal parm (though it is made with breast of veal), saltimbocca, and spaghetti with meatballs, along with more innovative dishes, so it may be something that would work well for both OP and his wife.

[MMRuth]

I agree with you completely about Convivio.

[acidity]

I think Convivio's modern fashion "return to roots" Southern Italian cooking is exactly what the OP was looking for. He didn't say he was looking for red sauce Italian, he said his wife was "more of a". His wife will find flavorful, tomato-including, comfort pastas at Convivio with no scary organs. The OP will get a modern foodie experience that is not available where he comes from which interests him. Convivio is nowhere near as non-Italian as Babbo, and the OP talking about Batali's shtick resonated with me, so maybe he'll like Convivio's shtick.

I said it was highly rated and wildly popular and you say it's your favorite, so you don't *completely* disagree with me with a lot of punctuation :)

The reason I noted that I don't like Convivio is so that other people who agree with me can see my kindred spirit, which is what I seek on the board. There are a lot of people here, and in my perception Convivio lovers have no trouble finding each other. I'm looking for a smaller group of people, who don't complain about the prices, who don't complain about the service, but who simply don't like the food, and who do like the other Italian food that I like. OK?

My disappointment is that the dishes present to my palate as a list of ingredients, without enough of a pleasing (to me) mating of flavors. Fair enough? You can look out for it yourself and it might wind up that you can see what I'm talking about and still continue to enjoy it. You won't need to reregister that you completely disagree with me because I already pointed out twice now that my opinion is a tiny minority opinion.

[Pan]

Keeping in mind the incredible regional diversity of Italian food, as well as the fact that there are innovative restaurants in Italy, could you please explain what's "non-Italian" about Babbo?

[GeraldineNY]

Definitely go to Il Cantinori because it is absolutely FABULOUS!!! See below:

http://www.ilcantinori.com/

[LeahBaila]

For menus and addresses, check: www.menupages.com
I recommend:
L'Artusi, Piccolo Angolo, Malatesta Trattoria, Gradisca, Da Andrea, Luna Piena

www.thelunchbelle.com