610710 Thu Apr 09 05:30:54 -0700 2009 16 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 4580647 So finally, in around a month and a half, we're going to have the money put together to purchase an entire side of beef from a local (Vermont) beef producer (mmm grassfed beef). We have to eat down the freezer to make room, and I'm really looking forward to it, but it brings up questions. The beef is priced at 250lbs hanging weight, three dollars a pound. I need to know roughly how many pounds of meat cuts that would produce? The way these folks do the sale of sides is I can pretty much tell them what cuts I want, specifying poundage. Of course I couldn't say "give me 250lbs of steak". But within reason for what you'd expect to get from half a cow, I can ask for. I'm trying to figure out first, what cuts, and what pounds of those cuts, I can expect from half a cow (I'm having a hard time finding the right sort of source for this level of detail on google, but probably because I'm just not figuring out the best search string). I know that I'd like heart and liver, for sure, but is it reasonable for me to ask for these, considering there's only one in each cow, and I'm only getting half a cow? How many pounds of, say, marrow bones would it be reasonable to ask for? How many pounds of roasts, specifically, how much rib roast could I ask for? What cuts and how many of which styles of steaks could I expect/ask for and still be reasonable? I'm sure hoping someone out there has more of a clue than I do, even if it's just to point me to a website I should be reading this stuff up on. :) Thu Apr 09 05:30:54 -0700 2009 119275 Morganna 1 4580657 I would say that, since they are producers that you trust to eat their meat, and they are local, discuss the issues with them. You are a first time buyer, so have a sit-down and ask them all your questions, discuss and find out what is possible, If in the end you feel that the discussion was a waste of time, or that they gave you bad answers, at least you know more about what sort of people you are buying from and that might affect your purchase decision. Thu Apr 09 05:42:56 -0700 2009 4580647 61669 Quine 2 4580672 Well, I have spoken with them to a certain degree. I get the impression that most people just tell them "I want 50% ground beef, the rest steaks and roasts" or something vague like that. I do plan on speaking to them, but I'd also like to know what is more 'typical' for the industry as far as expected weights and stuff, to compare against what they're telling me to I can better gauge their business. :) Thu Apr 09 06:00:08 -0700 2009 4580657 119275 Morganna 1 4580680 You are going to get 25% shrinkage after trim. Does the $3/lb include butchering? Do You want it all "boned out"? How much fat do you want in your grind? You are only going to get the cuts out of that side, in other words you are only going to get as many steaks, roasts that the side will produce. Do you know exactly where this meat is coming from? Will they double wrap or vacuum wrap and freeze prior to delivery or pickup (very important, that much meat can spoil it if you put it into a freezer packed tight unfrozen) Where is the butchering taking place? in a barn somewhere or in a sanitary processing facility? Not to discourage you, just trying to help. Thu Apr 09 06:04:58 -0700 2009 4580647 140140 mrbigshotno.1 2 4581296 I appreciate it. The $3 a pound does include the butchering. It is done in a completely sanitary (and I assume mostly humane) way in Vermont. The people I'm buying from supply the local food coops, so it's a professional operation. I've had their beef before, and loved it. Everything will be hard frozen and cryo packed by them. They'll cut things to order, as well, but they also already have meat that's. Since they supply the local food coops, getting specific cuts won't be a problem. They told me that a side of beef takes up approximately 8 cubic feet of space. I'm not sure what you mean by "boned out". I wouldn't want a rib roast to not have bones, or rib steaks, I prefer those with bones. :) But the % of fat in my grind is a good question, I'll give that some thought. They're willing to give me a little bit of leeway on cuts, too. As an example (numbers not accurate) if you would normally get six rib steaks from a side, they'd be willing to give me eight, if I asked for them, and then reduce the amount of something else I'd be getting. So when I say "a side of beef" that's slightly misleading. That's how they advertise it on their website, but there's not an animal out in the field that, when I call, they'll take to slaughter and I'll get only from that particular beast. They slaughter on a larger scale, so the meats I'll be getting are from different animals, and will come from their frozen stock of meat that's already cut up for market sale. Does that make more sense? Oh, and I'm buying it from here: http://store.vermontgrassfedbeef.com/index.html They'll deliver at no extra charge to my husband's office. We have a huge cooler that'll fit most of the meat, but the rest we'll have to bring home loose. Not that big of a deal, really. We'll come home with it right away and so it'll only spend about 25 minutes tops outside a cooler. Thu Apr 09 09:32:05 -0700 2009 4580680 119275 Morganna 3 4581350 I would advise NOT cutting the steaks up into smaller, thinner slices just to get more of them - it's not worth it. I think thicker steaks are far better and it's not really just personal preference, I think they cook better. A 3/4 inch steak is very hard for the regular home cook to get a good, hefty, salty crust on it before it over cooks. A 1.5 or 2 inch thick steak, well it's far easier to do that because you can allow the steak to actually grill for a minute or 2 longer over high heat without the risk of a well done piece of shoe leather. Thu Apr 09 09:47:13 -0700 2009 4581296 280462 Squirrels 4 4581362 I don't think I was clear. I didn't mean they'd cut the steaks thinner, it was just an example of them being willing to trade me a little extra of a particular cut even though they might not usually get that many from a specific side of beef. :) Thu Apr 09 09:49:06 -0700 2009 4581350 119275 Morganna 5 4581396 OHH, OK I get it. Nevermind then! Well, in that case, I would say go for more steaks and whole cuts as opposed to just ground beef. That's my personal preference though. Thu Apr 09 09:57:56 -0700 2009 4581362 280462 Squirrels 6 4581451 yeah, that's what I'm thinking, too. I can always grind my own, I have a grinder. :) Thu Apr 09 10:10:59 -0700 2009 4581396 119275 Morganna 1 4581121 I agree with Mr. BigShot to a degree. There are some simple questions that you need answered, especially about the vacuum packing. Some of the other points are a little off, I think like "sanitary facility" and "do you know where it comes from." I'm pretty sure it is a sanitary facility and if it isn't they are going to be subject to some extremely serious USDA laws and a visit from the local law enforcement, and of course you know where it comes from! Anyway, there are some good things and some bad things about buying beef like this. Some people often refer to it as buying very cheap steaks and very expensive ground beef, if you know what I mean. What you want done here are things you can't do by yourself at home. For instance, you can't cut your own t-bone steaks at home... at least not very easily. You can very easily cut your own boneless rib eye steaks or filet steaks with a regular kitchen knife. Do you have a meat grinder at home? If so, ask for larger cuts of things like the chuck or shoulder, where you can later grind them for burgers or braise them for pot roast. So the thing is, I think you need to familiarize yourself with the design and layout of a cow. It kinda sounds like you haven't done that. There are charts online that show the various cuts and where they come from. Search "beef cuts" online and look at posters and diagrams. And do let them know that you want to do some of your own butchering by yourself at home. Not only is it fun and educational, but it allows you to diversify what kind of things you're getting. For example you don't want to get a bunch of frozen, chucked up "stew beef." You want the original cut from where it came. http://stlouissteaklovers.com/images/beef_cuts.jpg http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/resource-room/meats/cutsofbeef/b&wcutsofbeef.jpg Thu Apr 09 08:53:03 -0700 2009 4580647 280462 Squirrels 1 4581542 Interesting the different responses different people have. Thanks for posting the website. At $3.00/lb, organic, grass fed, dry aged beef thats even a pretty good price for ground beef. I paid about $2.50/lb at the supermarket last week, and that certainly was a poorer quality of beef than what you are getting. Last time I was in the local health food store, equivalent ground beef was closer to $5.00/lb (yes, Hawaii food prices are bad, but even allowing for that....) At the same time, getting steaks and roasts of that quality at $3.00 is a huge bargain. In deciding what cuts to get, there are some good suggestions here, but the biggest factor is how your family eats. If you never have roast beef or pot roast, then it makes sense to have those items cut or ground. If the thought of hamburgers makes you queasy, then stick more to the whole cuts. As for re-butchering your own meat from larger cuts they provide (turning roasts into steaks, stew meat, or ground beef), maybe that's your thing, maybe it's not. Growing up we got sides of beef for a few years, and it was well worth it. You will need to keep track of what you eat, or at the end of the year you are going to end up with no steaks or ground beef left but 4 or 5 roasts or vice versa. As far as the offal, depending on their other clientele, they may be glad to have a customer for it, or it may be something you have to pay dearly for. As you said, you haven't actually bought interest in one specific animal, but for approximately 250 pounds of meat. Just as they have some flexibility on the types of cuts you get, I would imagine there is some flexibility on the organ meat as well. Hope you let us know what you end up getting, and over the next several months how happy you are with your choices. Thu Apr 09 10:31:28 -0700 2009 4580647 57890 KaimukiMan 2 4581739 Thanks so much for these thoughts. Be hard to shut me up on reporting back. I'm becoming a "report back" fanatic. :) Thu Apr 09 11:19:32 -0700 2009 4581542 119275 Morganna 1 4581855 Just returned, sounds like your getting a deal @ $3/lb. Just need to tell them how you want it, sounds like they are pros, they will explain. If you are going to grind your own ask for suet. With grass fed you dont want to go less than 80% lean to 20% fat. But I suggest you let them do it, just tell them you want 80/20 on the grind and tell them how you want it packaged(1lb, 2lb whatever) So yeah, let us know how you make out. Thu Apr 09 11:50:28 -0700 2009 4580647 140140 mrbigshotno.1 2 4582112 Thanks so much for your input! :) I really appreciate it. Love CH!!! Thu Apr 09 13:10:34 -0700 2009 4581855 119275 Morganna 1 4582842 28 years ago jfood, a newlywed and a befriended member of an old Italian butcher in town who made jfood an honorary Italian had a few extra steer fall of the truck. It was NJ, you figure it out. He offered jfood a 1/4 side of beef fully butchered and packed into whatever jfood wanted. Let's not discuss the price, but be it said that it was a steal. When jfood picked up (a couple of $20s in his pocket) he was amazed at the amount of packages he needed to load into his car. There was SOOOOOOO much meat. Now jfood does not know if someone else's meat may have been included in jfood's boxes, but prepare yourself for lots of packages. Thu Apr 09 17:00:06 -0700 2009 4580647 11290 jfood 2 4583309 Ha! Shoulda known there was a little Jerseyboy in you, Jfood! Although I've never actually lived in the Garden State, there's more than a little Jerseygrrrl in me. Lots of family there. So um... I hear ya. :-) So, about the meat. I've bought 1/8 of a steer (1/2 sounds like a LOTTA BEEF!) several times and was extremely pleased with the results. My experience has been grass-finished, non-certified organic. For newbies just exploring that idea, I suggest trying around to see if you *like* that farmer's breed of beef and general overall taste. I've had beef from herds I liked better than others. For the OP, hopefully you will like yours a lot! Also, and there are threads here about this and resources online, you need to learn how to cook grass-finished beef - it's a slight adjustment from regular grain-fed beef. For Morganna, I agree w/Soupkitten about asking for the organ meat/offal - oftentimes, they're actively trying to get rid of it. The farmer we deal with just brings them as a courtesy with no charge and we divvy it up according to who likes what, also no charge. I love the oxtail but don't want to get near the liver, for example. Likewise the bone-in/bone-out question - that will probably come up, and you should try to come up with an opinion about what you'll want. Our farmer's butcher offers a choice between T-bone/porterhouse or NY Strip/filet mignon, which essentially is bone-in versus bone-out. Generally they do want you to commit to bone-in or bone-out for the whole thing, but since yours is coming from several different steers they may handle it differently. Since I don't know what you like, I can't really advise about cuts, but there may be a choice between a whole loin and chops/steaks, and also between whole pieces of chuck vs. cut-up chuck and/or ground. IME there is a LOT of ground no matter what, and I prefer chuck, not extra ground. Those two maps of the beef cuts from Squirrels are fantastic - thanks! One other thought for you... when I get my steer share, I don't get too much choice about cuts. They divide it up equitably, but pretty much you get what you get. I have been dragged out of my comfort zone with cuts I'd never cooked before, and I'm so glad I learned to cook my way through all those parts that I might never have run into had I been offered a choice. So even though I like choice and control (and I do... plenty!) I got into the groove and found that it felt even more sustainable, even more using-every-bit-from nose-to-tail since I involuntarily got and ate all those different bits. Just something to consider... I hope you absolutely LOVE your beef and report back once you've had some! Thu Apr 09 20:38:06 -0700 2009 4582842 42513 Mawrter 1 4583023 on the subject of the heart and liver (and the tongue! and the tail! and the cheeks! and the sweetbreads!)-- definitely ask for them, as lots of folks don't want these items and they are wasted or unfortunately ground for sausage :( you may even be able to arrange to get "bonus parts" from other animals the farmer is having processed at the same time as yours. ask if you can get a "cut sheet" ahead of time, where you can specify, to some degree, the roasts & special cuts you'd like. you can sometimes even have the processor call you prior to cutting up the animal(s) & tell her/him what you want yourself. if you can find out a little bit about the processor, you can sometimes pay a little bit more and get some fantastic signature meat treatments, like ethnic sausages or jerky. another thing to keep in mind is that the folks getting the other 1/2 of the animal may have different tastes and be very willing to swap out, say, all of their marrow bones, which they dislike, for a few of your filets, which you'd gladly trade. good communication with the processor is priceless in this instance. butchers assume that everybody wants steaks and ground, and are generally overjoyed when folks want less conventional cuts from a 1/2 animal. if you talk to your butcher, s/he will probably be glad to hook you up with all the goodies. Thu Apr 09 18:29:12 -0700 2009 4580647 46030 soupkitten