HOME > Chowhound > Japan >
Do you create unique foods?
TELL US

Michelin Osaka/Kyoto

FourSeasons Apr 9, 2009 01:27 AM

A foodie friend told me that Michelin will publish on October for Osaka and Kyoto area. Can anyone verify this news?

  1. t
    tiger_uppercut Oct 28, 2009 12:47 AM

    Hello,

    Can anyone suggest a 2-star restaurant in Osaka that I will be able to book for mid to late November? I haven't been able to get through to Hajime on the phone for a whole week. Nearly given up. :(

    Thanks!

    1 Reply
    1. re: tiger_uppercut
      t
      theskyflyer Jul 29, 2010 09:02 PM

      I will attempt for a reservation at Hajime for my Nov trip. Can someone please recommend a tempura restaurant in Osaka? Which ones are considered best? My personal best experience so far is at Kondo in Tokyo.

    2. p
      prasantrin Oct 17, 2009 04:19 AM

      And I wanted to add the link to the full list of Osaka and Kyoto stars, but there's no link I can copy for the pdf file. Here's the link for the google search results where I got the info--you'll find the full list at the first link.

      http://www.google.com/search?q=Tenshi...

      1. p
        prasantrin Oct 16, 2009 04:35 AM

        I passed by the largest book store in Kyoto today, and they had special tables outside with the guide on sale. No English edition, at least not that I saw.

        4 Replies
        1. re: prasantrin
          d
          davew666 Oct 17, 2009 03:34 AM

          The english edition is out, the hotel I'm staying at in Tokyo in a fortnight has a copy waiting for me.

          For anyone that is interested,

          the two stars in Osaka are:

          Accueillir
          Fujiya 1935
          Honkogetsu
          Kahala
          Kashiwaya
          Kasho
          Koryu
          Le Pont de Ciel
          Momen
          Sushi Harasho
          Taian
          Totoya

          The one stars are:

          Ajikitcho Daimaru Shinsaibashi ó
          Ajikitcho Horie ó
          Calendrier ó
          Convivialité ó
          Éternité ó
          Fujihisa ò
          Fujikyu ò
          Fukunoya ò
          Gyuho ò
          Hiraishi ò
          Honda
          Ichijunisai Ueno Mino ó
          Ichijunisai Ueno Toyonaka ò
          Imamura ò
          Ippoh Honten ô
          Kagairo ô
          Kagaman ô
          Kaishoku Shimizu ò
          Kigawa ó
          Kigawa Asai ò
          Kinsui ó
          Kitcho Koraibashi Honten õ
          Kokyu ô
          Konoha ò
          La Baie ö
          Lumière ô
          Man u ò
          Man u Bekkan ò
          Marusaku ò
          Masuda ò
          Matsumoto Dojima ò
          Matsumoto Eiraku ó
          Nagahori ò
          Naniwa Okina ò
          Rogetsu ô
          Rokukaku-tei ò
          Sakamoto ò
          Sakuichi Honten ó
          Sakurae ò
          Sakurae Toyonaka ó
          Shien ô
          Shintaro ò
          Shunsaiten Tsuchiya ó
          Sushidokoro Kurosugi ò
          Sushidokoro Sakau ó
          Sushi Jinsei ò
          Sushi Yoshi ò
          Tenshige ò
          Tokiwa ò
          Umeichi ò
          Xiang Tao ô
          Yoshiko ó

          1. re: davew666
            p
            prasantrin Oct 17, 2009 03:54 AM

            Thanks for posting those!

            Someone asked about Tankuma Kitamise--it got 1 star as did but Tankuma Honke got 2 stars. Are the restaurants related at all?

            Looking at the complete Kyoto list, I wouldn't be surprised if the owners of Ten-you (the Tawara-ya Ryokan people) declined to be in the guide. I noticed that Tawaraya is missing from the list, and although I've never stayed there, from everything I've heard and seen, it seems impossible that they wouldn't have made it into the guide.

            1. re: prasantrin
              d
              Dustin_E Sep 14, 2010 10:20 AM

              The tawaraya is in the guide and received the highest rankings for being a comfortable place to stay, but didn't receive any stars for their food. It looks like they didn't want to be in the guide, though, as there are no pictures of the place or the food.

            2. re: davew666
              e
              exilekiss Oct 19, 2009 08:12 AM

              Oops nevermind.

              Just saw prasantrin's link below. Thanks!

          2. d
            davew666 Oct 14, 2009 04:01 AM

            is there a list anywhere of the 1 and 2 star places?

            3 Replies
            1. re: davew666
              k
              kikisakura Oct 14, 2009 11:28 AM

              A complete list of all 150 establishments that made the list (ah...sorry, all in Japanese):

              http://trendy.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/...

              The page above is 2 stars and the rest is 1 star.

              1. re: kikisakura
                p
                prasantrin Oct 14, 2009 06:28 PM

                Thanks! I'm kind of surprised Il Ghiottone is not on the list. I've heard a lot of great things about it. And I'm disappointed Ten-you isn't there. I love Ten-you.

                1. re: prasantrin
                  n
                  Ninisix Oct 15, 2009 09:39 PM

                  No news in the actualities this time… except JTB line : http://www.traveldailynews.com/pages/...
                  I wish only the prosperity to restaurants in Japan, unfamous before the Tokyo guide, and wish for these precise reason that Michelin guide succeed.
                  During these 2 years, they have managed their business I think quite well. A success story the Tokyo guide and for the team. Now Japan is famous for the food, I am agree with their rate as compare to France, don`t you ? But those in front of them, Kyoto difference VS Tokyo, are not some easy task to solve even with smart attitude and the know-how food business, nor they allow you to stay for a long time in phase especially with the threat of loss of the stars in Japan… At least, can one be afraid of it. With hope to be mistaken.

            2. p
              prasantrin Oct 13, 2009 06:49 PM

              "The Michelin staff, made up entirely of Japanese inspectors, visited more than 1,000 restaurants, hotels and ryokans from late 2007 before telling 203 establishments that they had been selected."

              Well, there goes the argument that the Michelin guide is useless in Japanese, since foreigners can't judge Japanese cuisine.

              I wonder how this will afffect non-Japanese who use the guide. Any non-Japanese restaurants are being rated from a Japanese point of view only, and in my experience, Japanese people prefer more subtle flavours than westerners. Not only that, but textural judgments are also different.

              1. Notorious P.I.G. Oct 13, 2009 03:56 PM

                Any word on how Tankuma Kitamise did?

                1. FourSeasons Oct 12, 2009 11:47 PM

                  Michelin Guide gave top billing 3 star rating to six restaurants in Japan's ancient capital of Kyoto and one in Osaka:

                  Kyoto outlets awarded three stars:
                  Chihana -- traditional Japanese
                  Hyo-tei -- traditional Japanese
                  Kikunoi Honten -- traditional Japanese
                  Kitcho Arashiyama Honten -- traditional Japanese Mizai -- traditional
                  Japanese Tsuruya -- traditional Japanese

                  Osaka outlet/s awarded three stars:
                  Hajime -- French

                  13 Replies
                  1. re: FourSeasons
                    p
                    prasantrin Oct 13, 2009 04:41 AM

                    So they've only announced the 3-stars for now?

                    I found these quotations interesting:

                    "Kyoto won a combined 110 stars, shared among 85 restaurants and traditional hotels, known as “ryokans,” while Osaka had 79 stars among 65 restaurants, Michelin said in a statement. "

                    That's 189 stars total for Osaka and Kyoto, a total population of 4 073 000. Tokyo has 227 stars for a population of 12 000 000. Per capita, Osaka and Kyoto have more stars than Tokyo.

                    "'In Kyoto, we selected restaurants which offer excellent dishes by inheriting and developing culinary tradition in Kyoto,” said Jean-Luc Naret, director of Michelin Guides, in an e-mailed statement. In Osaka, Michelin found “creative and original cuisine,' he said. "

                    Does this mean most of the restaurants they reviewed in Kyoto will be traditional Japanese places? That would be unfortunate.

                    I wonder if a lot of restaurants in Osaka turned down the opportunity to be in the guide. Kappo restaurants are quite small, and can't handle much more business than they already get (nor do they need much more business than they already get).

                    Kobe is due out 2011. Seems silly to me to offer a separate guide for Kobe. There's no way Kobe will get more stars than either Kyoto or Osaka.

                    In case anyone was wondering, no okonomiyaki places made it into the guide. :-)

                    1. re: prasantrin
                      Robb S Oct 13, 2009 07:15 AM

                      According to the folks at Michelin, restaurants aren't given the option of turning down being in the guide, although they can refuse permission to be photographed. I doubt that that's something Michelin would lie about - it would be too easy to catch them.

                      1. re: Robb S
                        p
                        prasantrin Oct 13, 2009 03:24 PM

                        But in the first Tokyo guide, much ado was made about some restaurants refusing to be in the guide.

                        "A handful of chefs proudly proclaimed that they had turned down chances to be listed. One, Toshiya Kadowaki, said his nouveau Japonais dishes, including a French-inspired rice with truffles, did not need a Gallic seal of approval."

                        Kadowaki wasn't in the first guide, iirc, but he was in the 2008 one.

                        I found this quotation:
                        "Mr. Naret said a few places did turn down ratings, which they could do by refusing Michelin permission to take photographs for use in the guide."

                        So it sounds like if you refuse permission to be photographed, you are essentially refusing to be in the guide.

                        1. re: prasantrin
                          Robb S Oct 13, 2009 10:45 PM

                          Naret has said elsewhere that the decision to be included in the guide is not up to the restaurant. (Here's one example: http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5j... ) And when a colleague of mine interviewed him, he said the same thing. (He also said that they have included restaurants that didn't allow photos to be taken.)

                          1. re: Robb S
                            p
                            prasantrin Oct 14, 2009 03:02 AM

                            Well then he's telling different stories to different people, and personally, I believe the quotation I posted, only because it's well known that Kadowaki turned down the chance to be included in the first Tokyo book.

                            http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/24/bus... is where I got the second quotation from (it's on the second page, and also mentions that Kitcho turned down a chance to be in the guide the first year).

                            1. re: prasantrin
                              Robb S Jan 6, 2010 12:45 AM

                              Returning to this topic to beat a dead horse (and address a question above) - apparently 18 restaurants in the Kyoto/Osaka Michelin guide refused permission to photograph, and they were included anyway. http://bit.ly/5cpaEj

                              1. re: Robb S
                                p
                                prasantrin Jan 6, 2010 04:15 AM

                                The horse isn't quite dead, yet. ;-D

                                I especially liked this quotation (emphasis ** mine):
                                The owner of Rikichi, awarded 1 star, comments, “Someone from Michelin contacted us for an interview which I declined. And this is what the person said – that so long as we operate a restaurant, it is a given that we should be evaluated. **Seriously, who cares?** Our only concern is our customers, whether they come from next door, who dine at our restaurant and enjoy our food.”

                                Any idea why Tawaraya didn't make the guide?

                                1. re: prasantrin
                                  n
                                  Ninisix Jan 6, 2010 07:46 PM

                                  So, this list of restaurants is made public. It sounds normal, a bit of transparency in selection (choosen as stared) can not hurt…

                                  1. re: Ninisix
                                    n
                                    Ninisix Jan 8, 2010 08:47 PM

                                    It is the classification Michelin (“”Mimi””) after all. That the visited restaurants don`t have all their ‘’carrot’’ seems also normal.
                                    One “’truth”’ transparency would be to publish all the estimated places, then listed those who refused their appointment … Having said that, it makes quite a time they have their method of selection, not need to go into this debate with no information. The “”Mimi”” should be judged on the quality of its information, including the balance between country, not on the rumours on their selection mode.

                                  2. re: prasantrin
                                    d
                                    Dustin_E Sep 14, 2010 10:17 AM

                                    I stayed at the tawaraya, hiiragiya and kanamean in january, and tawaraya was my favorite food-wise. I also wondered why it wasn't awarded a star for food, while the other two were. The food was perhaps too minimalist and too traditional for their tastes?

                      2. re: FourSeasons
                        u
                        Uncle Yabai Oct 13, 2009 06:01 AM

                        Interesting. I've been to all of them, and Hyotei is my favorite, by far.

                        1. re: Uncle Yabai
                          e
                          exilekiss Oct 13, 2009 08:08 AM

                          Hi Uncle Yabai,

                          I love Hyotei as well. :) Thanks for the reminder. What would be your 2nd favorite in Kyoto? Thanks.

                        2. re: FourSeasons
                          e
                          exilekiss Oct 13, 2009 08:09 AM

                          Hi FourSeasons,

                          Thanks for the info. :) Happy to see Hyotei make it to the list. Have you tried any of the other places? If so, how were they?

                        3. p
                          prasantrin Sep 19, 2009 04:57 AM

                          Any updates? The Japanese version is due out October 16, but the English version won't be out until January (according to amazon.co.jp).

                          I'm hoping for a leak or two, so I can make some fast reservations!

                          7 Replies
                          1. re: prasantrin
                            s
                            shrimpwonton Sep 19, 2009 07:16 AM

                            Any favourites for Kyoto restaurants please ? Need to go in November . Only booked Yoshikawa tempura and Arashimaya kitcho , Mishima -tei for sukiyaki.

                            1. re: shrimpwonton
                              p
                              prasantrin Sep 19, 2009 03:09 PM

                              There are plenty of threads with Kyoto recs, including my own.

                              I'd rather go to Ten-you than Yoshikawa for tempura.

                            2. re: prasantrin
                              Robb S Sep 19, 2009 07:21 AM

                              They said the same thing about the English version of the Tokyo edition when it first came out, but then it ended up actually coming out at the same time as the Japanese version.

                              1. re: Robb S
                                p
                                prasantrin Sep 19, 2009 03:09 PM

                                I'll look out for it, but I'm still hoping for some leaks! :-)

                                1. re: prasantrin
                                  t
                                  tokyodrinkingglass Sep 20, 2009 04:42 PM

                                  It's definitely coming out, should be in October. I interviewed Jean-Luc Naret, Michelin's director, about it in the spring.

                                  1. re: tokyodrinkingglass
                                    Robb S Sep 20, 2009 05:18 PM

                                    He said the English version was coming in October? Not January, as his company announced?

                                    1. re: Robb S
                                      n
                                      Ninisix Sep 20, 2009 11:02 PM

                                      On the Michelin Web site, there is an annonce as below :

                                      現在、23カ国を対象にした26種類のミシュランガイドが発行されています。2009年
                                      10月に日本語版と英語版の2種類が発行される『ミシュランガイド京都・大阪』は、27
                                      冊目と28冊目のミシュランガイドになります。
                                      *** translation (approximately) ***
                                      26 sorts of guides Michelin in 23 countries are now published. The " Michelin guide Kyoto - Osaka " , 2 sorts will be published in a Japanese version and on an English version and becomes the 27th and the 28th edition of the guide Michelin in October, 2009.
                                      The link to the web site MICHELIN :
                                      http://www.michelin.co.jp/guide/newsl...

                            3. o
                              olly78 Apr 16, 2009 10:02 AM

                              I'm going to Hong Kong, Tokyo and Kyoto in May. I'm hitting lots of the 3 star places in the former two, and was wondering which restaurants people think we get 3 stars in Kyoto or Osaka - its likely I wont return for a while.

                              1 Reply
                              1. re: olly78
                                p
                                prasantrin Apr 16, 2009 02:59 PM

                                If they allow it, Kahala in Osaka stands a good chance, but it's a very small place, and they might not want to be included.

                                In Kyoto, a lot of the old kaiseki places (the main branches) like Hyotei, Roan Kikunoi, Kitcho, etc.

                                I think Ten-you (tempura) in Kyoto might make it, though if it did, it would be 1-star. It's owned by the Tawaraya Ryokan people, so they really pay attention to quality, but I sometimes find the service to be less than perfect.

                              2. p
                                prasantrin Apr 10, 2009 01:50 AM

                                Great news! I'll only have 5 months or so left in the area after it comes out, but I can try to sneak in as many restaurants as I can!

                                I'm going to try to make reservations for Kahala now, though, and maybe Momen. It might get even more difficult later!

                                1. Yukari Apr 9, 2009 02:38 AM

                                  A Tokyo chef friend of mine has said that his Kyoto colleagues were approached to be included in the Kyoto book.

                                  2 Replies
                                  1. re: Yukari
                                    FourSeasons Apr 9, 2009 08:28 AM

                                    Yes, it is confirmed. I just read the news on a website:

                                    http://www.japantoday.com/category/bo...

                                    1. re: FourSeasons
                                      l
                                      lost squirrel Apr 9, 2009 07:31 PM

                                      3 starred takoyaki? sign me up!

                                  Show Hidden Posts