610635 Wed Apr 08 17:23:31 -0700 2009 41 33 Food Media and News 0 4579743 A list of the 100 highest grossing restaurants in the US. Some very impressive numbers but I wonder what the ‘net’ profit happens to be. http://www.rimag.com/info/ca6647983.html Wed Apr 08 17:23:31 -0700 2009 23758 Withnail42 1 4579841 It is perhaps a sad condition that 25 of the top grossing restos in the US are in Las Vegas. I fault myself for having contributed to the gross of 11 of them. But some of the best sushi I have ever eaten... was in the desert. And was not on the list! Wed Apr 08 17:58:43 -0700 2009 4579743 57170 Veggo 2 4579893 I'm amazed that BOTH Montgomery Inn places are on there in Cincy. I'm from there - and while they are popular, they're not that good! Wed Apr 08 18:24:13 -0700 2009 4579841 99136 AMFM 3 4583140 I was thinking the same thing. High grossing does not equal great food. But they sure know how to pack 'em in and out in a hurry. Thu Apr 09 19:14:20 -0700 2009 4579893 227406 JohnE O 3 4584065 "Good," unfortunately, has NOTHING to do with it! #2, TOTG -- was #1 for a very long time, and only for a brief period in its history -- when Patrick Clark was the Chef -- was the food anything to write home about. When you're visiting New York, you should SEE the restaurant, but I recommend going for cocktails, and dining elsewhere. Fri Apr 10 07:29:16 -0700 2009 4579893 52499 ChefJune 1 4581293 Tavern on the Green #2??? Holy crap (pun intended)! Thu Apr 09 09:31:02 -0700 2009 4579743 12045 gloriousfood 1 4581659 Wow there's a couple of real shockers there for me. I never would have guessed Scomas would have hit so high on the list but the food was great. Zehnders at 48. All I can say is that's a lot of freakin chickin. I never understood the attraction there. I wonder if those numbers reflect the gift shop, pastry shop, wine shop etc that are all in the same building. Add the Bavarian Inn right across the street to the list and I am nothing short of shell shocked. Both of those chicken places grossing more than Aureole, Spago and Daniel Boulud's! Who knew? Thu Apr 09 10:59:10 -0700 2009 4579743 253154 Fritter 2 4590688 Definitely a volume operation in Frankenmuth. We've been going up the last few Septembers for the car show (a good time if you like that sort of thing) and have eaten at the chicken places a time or two since the Frankenmuth Brewery went under (I miss that place). While the chicken's not bad if it's hot and fresh, I wouldn't drive there just to eat it. And they are very good at turning those tables. The only other place on the list I've eaten at is Mon Ami Gabi in Vegas, which I don't remember being ridiculous expensive either, and it was pretty good. Of course, the fact that it was being expensed made it that much better! Mon Apr 13 03:24:41 -0700 2009 4581659 109573 coney with everything 3 4590769 If you are there at that time of year park in the back and take a peek at the kitchen entrance. Sometimes they have giant blue hubbard squash piled up like a mountain waiting to get cooked and stored for the following year. Mon Apr 13 05:30:28 -0700 2009 4590688 253154 Fritter 1 4582589 I don't find that list to be surprising at all. The vast majority of those places are in busy tourist areas, which means they do a high volume, the average tab is higher (people splurge more when on vacation or travelling on an expense account) and they can charge higher prices than comparable restaurants in other areas. It's not a mystery. High volume plus high revenue per diner equals high gross. That's why you don't see places like The French Laundry (high tab per diner but low volume) and why you see so many places in Vegas, where the higher end restaurants tend to be bigger than their counterparts (Bouchon in Las Vegas seats 200, Bouchon in Yountville seats 72). It will be more interesting to see what the downturn in the tourist industry will do to this list. Edited to add: I do find one thing to be somewhat surprising: that Slanted Door is the highest grossing restaurant in San Francisco and grosses more than Scoma's. Thu Apr 09 15:32:20 -0700 2009 4579743 10159 Ruth Lafler 2 4582847 Remember bac in the day when the original Spenger's (Berkeley) was on that list? Mainly due to the crowds from Golden Gate Fields and Cal alums taking advantage of the bar and big parking lot. Thu Apr 09 17:03:42 -0700 2009 4582589 14515 Stephanie Wong 3 4583207 Yup. Of course there was a lot less competition in those days, too! Thu Apr 09 19:42:58 -0700 2009 4582847 10159 Ruth Lafler 3 4583301 Spenger's used to be the highest-grossing restaurant west of the Mississippi. Slanted Door's no big surprise. How many places have a great bay view, a national reputation for great food, and are a couple of blocks from the end of a cable car line? One. Thu Apr 09 20:34:39 -0700 2009 4582847 11369 Robert Lauriston 4 4583496 The cable car line is not a factor -- that line doesn't draw a crowd the way the Powell St. lines do. National reputation for food? How many of those other places have that? Clearly that's not a factor. It's "ethnic" and it's only half the size of Scoma's, which has an even better view. Thu Apr 09 22:07:05 -0700 2009 4583301 10159 Ruth Lafler 5 4584536 Not to be argumentative, but I would say that the cable car line is a factor - not a huge one, but a factor. I would also say that Slanted Door does have a national reputation.I've lived in SF and now Chicago and many people have heard of Slanted Door who have only visited SF. It's highly rated on Zagat, for example, which is the go to guide for visitors across the nation. I haven't been to Slanted Door since it moved from it's location in the Mission but I thought it was fantastic. Slanted Door's "ethnicity" is certainly not a factor one way or another - Tao is very similiar. Fri Apr 10 09:49:41 -0700 2009 4583496 22444 october271986 6 4584771 I've walked by that cable car stop (the end of the line) literally hundreds of times, and I've never seen more than a couple of people get on or off there -- usually there's no one on the car when it arrives/leaves. I didn't mean to suggest that Slanted Door doesn't have a national reputation for food, only that, given the other places on the list, the reputation of the food isn't a significant factor in the success of restaurants on that list. It may be a slight factor for Slanted Door, in that it brings in locals as well as tourists, and you're right that it may be the factor that differentiates it from Scoma's, which rightly or wrongly very few local foodies would be caught dead in. Fri Apr 10 11:09:22 -0700 2009 4584536 10159 Ruth Lafler 7 4587292 I think the national--actually, international--reputation is a huge factor for Slanted Door. That's the only thing that differentiates it from other restaurants nearby with the same or better views. I used to work a block away from that cable-car stop and at certain times the cars were full of tourists. The ferries and vintage streetcars also draw tourists, as does the Ferry Plaza shopping center and the dozen or so hotels in the immediate area. Plus it's a prime spot for business lunches. Sat Apr 11 10:52:48 -0700 2009 4584771 11369 Robert Lauriston 7 4588714 >>> that differentiates it from Scoma's, which rightly or wrongly very few local foodies would be caught dead in Hey ... hey ... It must be all my Chowhound recs for Scomas that is making sales soar. Sun Apr 12 02:09:48 -0700 2009 4584771 10264 rworange 8 4589294 heheheh mine, too! I love Scoma's for crab, Chardonnay and the fantastic view. It was my very first San Francisco dining experience 39 years ago, and I LOVE to recreate that every time I visit the City by the Bay. ;) I also love The Slanted Door. Sun Apr 12 10:13:34 -0700 2009 4588714 52499 ChefJune 2 4583279 Interesting, And ultimately, this does not attest to quality or being "the best" in a specific category.....it just means they have a higher mark-up and bigger profit. What percentage of this list are spots that are recommended here on Chow? It's kind of like those Real Estate headlines you see in the paper that list the change +/- in the "median" or "average" home price. One or two sales can sway the stats so easily that they begin to mean nothing at all. The investors might be happy but the diner's have no input in these numbers whatsoever. Your example of Slanted Door and Scoma's put the exclamation point on the issue. Thu Apr 09 20:24:58 -0700 2009 4582589 15774 MSK 3 4583732 "it just means they have a higher mark-up and bigger profit" This says nothing about profit or quality. It's primarily an indicator of volume. I'm not familiar with every one of the restaurants so it is possible that some achive a higher gross with high prices or as you say, mark-ups. Think McDonalds. Small price, Huge Volume. Large gross. Fri Apr 10 04:19:21 -0700 2009 4583279 253154 Fritter 3 4587353 > What percentage of this list are spots that are recommended here on Chow? Of the four San Francisco restaurants on the list, two of them are legitimately good places which are recommended a lot (Slanted Door and Boulevard). The other two (Cliff House and Scomas) are places I think a lot of us would love to love, what with their perfect settings -- one on the remnants of a once bustling harbor with fishing boats and an old tall-masted sailing ship nearby, the other a hundred feet above the crashing surf looking out towards the setting sun. And occasionally intrepid hounds make a foray into one or the other and once in a while find something that didn't fall off the back of a Sysco truck. Though that's rare and takes skill. Still, 50% isn't bad ... Sat Apr 11 11:20:43 -0700 2009 4583279 25310 Chuckles the Clone 4 4587808 The Cliff House hired George Morrone and is currently making one of its periodic efforts to be better than a tourist trap. Some positive reports on the SF board. Sat Apr 11 15:04:56 -0700 2009 4587353 11369 Robert Lauriston 4 4588716 Actually I've recommended ... and ate at ... all three restuarants. Scoma's has their own fishing fleet, docked at the restaurant and a fish processing plant. Definately not Sysco. They also know how to cook that fish. I will give you the sides are blah, but outside of Chinese restaurants with fish tanks, it is probably some of the freshest fish in the City. The prices are stupid though ... except for the $22 3 course lunch special ... and there is free valet parking at the door. As Robert mentioned, George Morrone is at the Cliff House. It was only when he showed up in Jan 2009 that I recommended it. There still might be some off stuff there though. The other two restaurants in the Cliff House though ... no ... I've don't major rants warning peole away from them ... though good popovers at the cafe ... that is all that is good. Sun Apr 12 02:20:28 -0700 2009 4587353 10264 rworange 1 4582703 Most of the restaurants listed look to be large with sq ft in the 5 and 6 digit range. #74, Harris Ranch, is a big surprise -- what kind of resto is 304,500 sq ft in size????? Must be the whole damned ranch! Thu Apr 09 16:09:52 -0700 2009 4579743 15743 Sherri 2 4582729 Can I get a MR Porterhouse in holding pen five? Thu Apr 09 16:18:26 -0700 2009 4582703 253154 Fritter 2 4583473 It's the only halfway decent place to eat between Sacramento and Los Angeles...so it is popular. Thu Apr 09 21:56:36 -0700 2009 4582703 11408 melly 3 4583995 Unless you take Hwy 99 through the central valley towns. Fri Apr 10 07:04:01 -0700 2009 4583473 18150 PolarBear 3 4584600 Popular, yes. I've eaten there for the exact reason you state. However, popularity does not explain 304,500 sq ft. (This is almost 7 acres OR more than five of Candy Spelling's 60,000 sq ft houses currently for sale in Ca. That's a lot of geography) Fri Apr 10 10:08:21 -0700 2009 4583473 15743 Sherri 4 4587301 That total probably includes the 185-room hotel, ballroom, and conference center. Sat Apr 11 10:55:33 -0700 2009 4584600 11369 Robert Lauriston 1 4583456 Not one from Philly? The view at Portland City Grill is worth a million but am sure it is not considered one of the best restaurants in town. I had the best meal of my life at Daniel Boloud in Las Vegas. The Lobster House in Cape May is fun...and they are packed all the time! Thu Apr 09 21:52:20 -0700 2009 4579743 11408 melly 1 4583535 Wow, very interesting. I've eaten at every NYC restaurant on this list except for #99 Maloney & Porcelli. With the exceptions of possibly Daniel, Del Posto, and Smith & Wollensky, I'd say the quality to price ratio not very high for any of them. Wonder if that explains anything about why their net profits are so large. Thu Apr 09 22:26:18 -0700 2009 4579743 64215 cimui 2 4583740 "Wonder if that explains anything about why their net profits are so large" This is only a list of highest grossing independent restaurants. There is not not always a direct correlation between gross charges and net profits due to expenses. We can never really know what the net profits are from an independent operation in most cases. If the net profit was considered then places like Zehnders and The Bavarian Inn would likely be in the top ten. Those places have been around a long time and the families own the property. Compare that to some one paying a mortgage on their equipment, a triple net lease and a % of their profit to the building owner such as in a casino. Fri Apr 10 04:30:42 -0700 2009 4583535 253154 Fritter 3 4583752 Got it, thanks. I read too late at night, too quickly! Fri Apr 10 04:48:43 -0700 2009 4583740 64215 cimui 4 4583802 As an interesting aside about the net profit Vs gross charges El Bulli allegedly has operated at a "loss" for years. Fri Apr 10 05:32:17 -0700 2009 4583752 253154 Fritter 5 4584135 Given that El Bulli is only open half the year and is hardly a turn-the-tables kind of place, it's not at all surprising. What's more remarkable to me is how it is able to stay in business. Adria must be selling a lot of copies of "A Day at El Bulli". www.foodforthoughtmiami.com Fri Apr 10 07:52:15 -0700 2009 4583802 35525 Frodnesor 1 4583745 What can you say about a list of NYC restaurants that includes Daniel, Ruby Foos, Carmines, and Morimoto. A whole lot of diversity baby. Fri Apr 10 04:37:38 -0700 2009 4579743 11290 jfood 1 4584120 <I wonder what the ‘net’ profit happens to be.> significantly lower than the gross, but with those figures, someone must be making money! Fri Apr 10 07:46:56 -0700 2009 4579743 52499 ChefJune 1 4584174 Some of these numbers just don't make sense to me. Speaking from what I know of locally in Miami, a place like DeVito's (which is only an "estimate") is shown as having 250 seats and serving 140,000 meals a year. That means they are getting 1.5 turns of every single table, 365 days a year. Yet I have never - never - seen this place show as fully booked on OpenTable. Can that be? www.foodforthoughtmiami.com Fri Apr 10 08:04:15 -0700 2009 4579743 35525 Frodnesor 2 4584388 In Florida, DeVito's really shocked me as well, considering I've yet to hear a good thing about it and the exorbitant prices charged steers many customers away. It's not simply never booked in Open Table, the place is always half empty. The others in the Orlando and Miami area all were believable. Fri Apr 10 09:16:43 -0700 2009 4584174 124704 Icantread 1 4584458 Curious about the "Independentness" of this list. Mon Ami Gabi, Joe's Stone Crab, and Shaw's Crab House are "Lettuce Entertain You" restaurants. LEYE owns something like 50 restaurants, I think. Fri Apr 10 09:30:48 -0700 2009 4579743 22444 october271986 2 4584804 LEYE runs the Chicago and Las Vegas Joe's, but not the original in Miami Beach (which is #3 on the list, which doesn't surprise me at all). Interesting as well, though, that last year's report had a nice little puff-piece on DeVito's even though it had only been in operation a half-year. http://www.rimag.com/article/CA6554058.html www.foodforthoughtmiami.com Fri Apr 10 11:17:36 -0700 2009 4584458 35525 Frodnesor