608319 Tue Mar 31 09:53:53 -0700 2009 16 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 4554345 Hi CH, I eat sushi quite a bit especially at lunch. There is a take out sushi place near my office and not only do I enjoy it but I often have chosen it as a healthy lunch option compared to other places near the office. My usual order is tuna sahimi, salmon sashimi, and a tuna roll. so clearly, this is a lot of tuna. How concerned should I be about mercury in tuna and should I replace it with other fish. And, are you guys worried in any way about your mercury intake? Tue Mar 31 09:53:53 -0700 2009 158016 cassoulady 1 4554466 I am not worried at all. The mercury scare may be faulty science because it ignores other factors, predominantly the presence of selenium in fish. Selenium counteracts the effects of mercury and vice versa. All of the scare campaigns are based only on mercury levels, without any regard to the levels of selenium in fish. The first studies were done on pilot whales and that started the furor. Do you eat pilot whale fillets? Here's a quick rundown on the facts with a few good links to some of the research. http://www.mercuryfacts.org/fselenium.cfm NOAA is now conducting studies that will likely show the same results and indicate that people have been worried for little or no reason. http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/sfa/sfweb/nsil/ALSPACStudy.pdf Tue Mar 31 10:25:16 -0700 2009 4554345 32444 MakingSense 2 4555075 mercuryfacts.org is an industry sponsored website. Trusting what they have to say about this issue is a bit like looking to the oil industry for answers on the science of climate change. The chemistry of the human body is a lot more complex than anything as basic as "water puts out fire". Selenium probably does counteract some of the mercury, but, even if there was a perfect 1:1 ratio of the two, that would not stop the mercury from causing harm, just reduce the harm being done. The mercury scare was definitely just that in a large part: a scare. But too much of certain kinds of fish in undeniably harmful. Fortunately, there are plenty of types of fish that don't contain much mercury. Most of the fish that are more traditionally eaten as sushi in Japan (which does not include salmon or most types of tuna - these are eaten now but were avoided in the traditional Japanese diet) have much lower levels of mercury. It's no reason to stop eating salmon and tuna, but there aren't too many things that are healthy to be eating for lunch every day. Tue Mar 31 13:16:25 -0700 2009 4554466 36408 danieljdwyer 3 4555218 The validity of the material consolidated by that website is from other sources and is likely accurate. Just because an "industry" source posted it does not make it false. They didn't "make up" their material and the chart they included shows far more than a "1:1 ration of the two" minerals. Most of the fish we commonly eat should have NO ill effects. The original alarms about mercury were sounded decades ago by groups protesting fishing methods mostly for tuna and largely by the Japanese. They used it as part of a program to decrease consumer demand for the product and win wider support for legislation to change regulations governing fishing methods. Did they have less of a "vested interest" in their use of statistics? The popular media continues to use the "easy story" about mercury, rather than the more complex one about the interaction that naturally occurs. Consumers have become accustomed to hearing only one facet of this issue but there is obviously another side. There is sufficient data to justify a serious examination of this and NOAA is currently doing that. The results of their international study should be available next year. It's worth doing your own research rather than swallowing everything you are fed by special interest groups, whatever side they're on. Tue Mar 31 13:56:41 -0700 2009 4555075 32444 MakingSense 4 4555463 They might be getting their data from trustworthy sources, but they are also handpicking data, interpreting that data, and drawing distinct conclusions. Exactly the same way that the oil industry is. And yes, as I originally implied, the mainstream news media is overstating the case. However, pinning your case on one study conducted by the NOAA - which is studying the effects of mercury, selenium, and omega 3 fatty acids in utero, not in adults - isn't the best route. It doesn't take a whole lot of research to get a much more complete picture. If you read any major, peer reviewed medical journal on a regular basis, you're going to end up reading about this issue several times a year. The New England Medical Journal - one of the most, if not the most, respected medical publications in the world - has published something like two dozen studies on this in the last decade. All of the ones I've read, and I read every issue, cover to cover, since about 2002, have said that yes, there is substantial cause for concern raised by the studies conducted, but probably not the degree of concern the mainstream news media is causing. Also, it's just wrong headed to insist that most of the fish we eat do not cause any harm. The plain fact of it is that nearly all, if not absolutely all, of the foods we eat cause harm. They also cause benefit, and there's a delicate balance between the two. Eating too much of any food - and especially a food that we know contains heavy metals - is going to be cause net harm even when eating a smaller quantity of that food does not cause net harm. Take the word of the fish canners if you like. I'll continue to follow the advice of the upper echelon of the medical community and monitor have many tuna subs I eat in a week. Tue Mar 31 15:11:36 -0700 2009 4555218 36408 danieljdwyer 5 4555550 What you have said is very, very true: "The plain fact of it is that nearly all, if not absolutely all, of the foods we eat cause harm." Anything consumed without moderation can cause harm. The biggest problem that we have is that some special interest group promotes a study for a specific, often political, reason and that's what sticks in people's minds and then that gets repeated forever. Exactly as you conclude, "it's probably NOT [to] the degree that the mainstream news media is causing." Most of the fish we eat do NOT do any any harm and certainly NOT in the amounts that most of us consume them. This craziness leads people to worry unnecessarily. If people are eating a varied and balanced diet, they shouldn't have to consciously "monitor" or count the number of "tuna subs" they're eating in a specific number of days. That's extreme. The data show that tuna's levels of balance between mercury and selenium should make it fine unless you're obsessive about Charlie the Tuna as a lunch companion. Eat some PB&J or ham and cheese every now and then. Should we trust articles in medical journals, even if they are peer reviewed? The studies are funded. By whom and why? They are possibly seeking a certain outcome and the researchers often use them as the basis for obtaining further grants. Grants are easier to get in a groupthink mode. Maybe they aren't exactly as pure as you seem to think. Tue Mar 31 15:50:35 -0700 2009 4555463 32444 MakingSense 6 4555739 The process of blind peer reviewed articles for international professional journals is sound. Reviewers most often - as is appropriate - include respected professionals with research-based contrary points of view. Tue Mar 31 16:51:42 -0700 2009 4555550 36661 Sam Fujisaka 7 4558795 Not questioning the validity of peer review. God help us if studies are NOT properly and independently reviewed. Simply pointing out that studies beget studies. Funding is available to those who do studies in which there is current interest. Science is not immune to fashion and trends. Funding does not go to unpopular fields or research. Publish something newsworthy and more grant money comes your way. Wed Apr 01 15:13:33 -0700 2009 4555739 32444 MakingSense 1 4554568 I have a friend who is a pescatarian and her only source of protein is fish, doesn't like beans doesn't really eat egss. She went to the doctor for a physical and asked for a mercury test. The results came back and she is 4 times over what is considered "safe". Take this for what you will but yes eating a lot of sushi can affect the levels of mercury in your blood. Tue Mar 31 10:56:27 -0700 2009 4554345 10195 KTinNYC 2 4554635 Has she modified her intake of particular fish now? Tue Mar 31 11:18:10 -0700 2009 4554568 158016 cassoulady 3 4554906 This just happened and I haven't heard what she was doing but there was conversation about what she could eat to replace her protein source. Tue Mar 31 12:35:32 -0700 2009 4554635 10195 KTinNYC 1 4555244 Actor Jeremy Piven (from HBO's "Entourage") was recently diagnosed and is being treated for mercury toxicity. FWIW, here's WebMD's article on this case: http://www.webmd.com/news/20081218/jeremy-pivens-high-mercury-count Tue Mar 31 14:04:03 -0700 2009 4554345 64003 bulavinaka 1 4555315 If there is Hg in the water, it will concentrate as you move up the fish food chain. We've worked in the Amazon where fish are a major part of riverine indigenouse peoples' diets and where Hg leaches into the water from slash-and-burn agricultural fields. We take samples of hair to test for Hg concentrations. Concentrations are high, and have led to widespread development disorders and to lowered mental capacities. The "solution" is relatively simple - especially in the developed world - eat fish from lower down the food chain; eat the herbavores. In the Amazon we've suppplied charts with all he fish pictured, classified in terms of their relative danger in terms of Hg. Tue Mar 31 14:27:44 -0700 2009 4554345 36661 Sam Fujisaka 2 4555881 I am having a near panic attack Sam. It took me a moment to remember that HG was mercury. Ugh that periodic table from chemistry..... Tue Mar 31 17:30:29 -0700 2009 4555315 158016 cassoulady 3 4556055 Exactly what we find among the people along some of the rivers in the Amazon and who eat the giant top-of-the-chain fish - they can't remember the periodic table either!!! Now effn' thet haint livin' proof es to th' dangers of heatin' too much fish, I dingged don' know what e-as! Tue Mar 31 18:22:18 -0700 2009 4555881 36661 Sam Fujisaka 1 4555616 Google statistics for mercurialism in adults for the United States, I couldn't find any. Plenty of info if you are a child or pregnant. It's actually being shown that HFC syrup contains more mercury than any sushi bar could come up with, so watch out if you are drinking sodas made without real sugar. Tue Mar 31 16:11:45 -0700 2009 4554345 11160 Pablo 1 4985134 i guess you all saw that an arbitrator has let piven off the mamet hook. quoted mamet, "jeremy is leaving show business in order to pursue a career as a thermometer." love it! Fri Aug 28 06:10:07 -0700 2009 4554345 105717 alkapal