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Help with Chinese Dumplings recipe

c
CoconutMilk Mar 24, 2009 09:29 AM

I am attempting to make chinese style dumplings (homemade wrappers and all) and I am looking at several recipes and there are so many variations for the flour to water ratio and the use of hot or cold water. I'm leaning towards 4 cups flour and 2 cups hot water, kneaded for about 20 min. I want a soft, light dumpling with a little chew....nothing too dense and heavy. Would those ratios produce such a product?

Also, if i were to assemble the dumplings, filling and all, and then refrigerate them and boil them off like 6 hours later would that be a huge problem? I want to make them during the day but eat them for dinner.

Any wisdom on the subject would be greatly appreciated.

  1. i
    iliketofu Apr 14, 2009 05:33 PM

    Don't worry about making the dumpling, it's all about the sauce..... get some good soy sauce, the sweet kind, the ones that says xo soy sauce the really expensive bottle like 3.99 versus the 1.99 for the ordinary ones and then pour some dark vinegar, like maybe 4 to 1 ratio then some a dash of seasame and soy oil and the kicker, but dont tell anyone is.... drum roll please...... GINGER!!! shred some ginger into your sauce and regardless how good/bad the dumpling taste, it will taste good with this sauce. Oh, don't forget the Sriracha hot chilli sauce, it's the one that they serve at the Vietnamese Pho restaurants, it'll go good in anything.

    Nobody should be making dumplings unless they are over the age of 70, being chained to a chinese restaurant in the back and beaten by chinese mobs at night time for not paying protection money.... when I want to eat dumplings, my mom goes...."here's ten bucks, go to the asian grocery store and pick yourself up two bags, i aint got time for your ass..." So do yourself a favor and enjoy the sauce and buy two bags of frozens and you'd be ready to go.... .anyhow the stuff you make at home ain't gonna taste that good...... YOU DIDN'T PUT IN ENOUGH MSG ANYWAYS!!! love ya....

    1. ipsedixit Mar 25, 2009 04:12 PM

      I've been making dumplings from scratch since I was about 10 years old.

      There is no set ratio of flour to water. As others have noted, you just have to go by feel and touch, adding water as you go.

      And, really, water to flour ratio is not as important as the kneading and rolling out process. Also, allowing the dough to rest is important.

      DO NOT, and I mean, DO NOT use a freaking pasta maker to make roll out your dough. Get a good old fashion roller. Pinch little balls of dough, smash with palm of hand, then roll the dough out so that it is thicker in the middle and tapers out to the sides.

      As far as buying premade skins -- why bother? If you're going to buy premade skins, might as well go all the way and buy premade dumplings.

      1. h
        HLing Mar 25, 2009 03:55 PM

        2 cups of water for 4 cups of flour will make the dough too soft. The ration of water to flour is usually between 1:4 and 1:3.

        Don't add the water all at once because for dumplings or noodles, you're stuck if you got too much water in the dough. (maybe not as critical when making scallion pancakes)

        Work with a pair of chopsticks and a quick hand to distribute the water as evenly as possible as you drizzle the water slowly. If you get the whole bowl of flour to clump and look like raw rice evenly (the size of uncook rice), it's just the right amount of water.

        Then you work to get the flour to bind and work into a dough. Have patience and faith. Will also need to know how to put your weight into the kneading. When it comes together, cover with wet towel over the bowl, rest and let rest at least 30 mins or more.

        The dough will relax and your effort will be rewarded with the ease of rolling and wrapping the dumplings, whether you decide to make them into little round balls, flatten, roll out one by one,or rolling out into a large sheet and using cookie cutter. The first method is preferred because it makes better tasting skin, also because you will find that a circle isn't the best shape to make dumplings wrap-friendly and taste-friendly. It would be nice to have a team effort at this point though. Otherwise you'd want to probably make say 12 wrappings and then wrap 12, and make more wrapping and wrap more....etc.

        Definitely put on cookie sheet and flash freeze as you fill a tray. It will taste fine. It will save you the agony of melting dumplings just when you want to cook them....

        Need practice, sure. But worth it.

        1. wench31 Mar 25, 2009 01:01 PM

          Somebody on Chowhound gave this great website. The website has Korean videos and recipes. There's a video on how to make Mandu!

          http://www.maangchi.com/recipes/mandu

          1. c
            cvhound Mar 25, 2009 12:54 AM

            We used to make hundreds of Korean dumplings (mandoo) several times a years for various family celebrations and always used store bought wrappers. However, we purchased good quality meat and used a meat grinder at home for our filling.

            If you refrigerate the dumplings for more than a couple of hours, the dumpling wrappers may become wet and difficult to remove from your sheet pan. The vegetables and meat from your filling begins to expel excess liquid, which causes the dough to tear/rip when removing them from the pan.

            As someone else mentioned previously, it's best to keep them on a cookie sheet on a sheet of parchment paper or silpat in the freezer. Once they're completely frozen, you can store the uncooked dumplings in a ziploc bag for several months without much sacrifice in quality. Just don't let any of the dumplings touch one another on the tray, or they'll stick together. However, your dumplings may taste less juicy if you freeze then cook compared to how they'd taste if you cooked them immediately after making them.

            Another alternative is to parboil them, let them cool on a cooking sheet, and once they're completely dry (it's very important that they're dry), you can store the cooked dumplings in the fridge for several days. When you're ready to serve, you can lightly steam them or pan fry with a bit of oil. Again, they may taste less juicy then if you served them immediately after assembling, but depending on the quantity needed, it's not always realistic to do.

            Hope that helps!

            1. alwayscooking Mar 24, 2009 11:42 AM

              Based on angrychineseguy and jeniyo's responses I feel quite satisfied about buying the skins at the Asian market - I had no idea! (Unless - are they better than store bought? Can you use a pasta maker?)

              To CM - you probably know this already but the dumplings tend to stick so use corn starch and store them flat on a cookie sheet (the same method for freezing too).

              3 Replies
              1. re: alwayscooking
                a
                angrychineseguy Mar 24, 2009 12:08 PM

                I see no reason why you couldn't use a pasta press during the final part of the process, but I would not suggest an automated unit. Like jeniyo said, skins are more of an art based on touch rather than a standard recipe.

                But on the storage side of things, I would say use a plate instead of a cookie sheet. While in the end both are perfected fine storage surfaces, plates are better for one reason... portioning. One large plate is generally enough for 2-3 people. In my family, we would make two plate's worth at a time for 3 people. 1-1.2 plates would be finished on the first night, the other would be finished for lunch or dinner the next day.... right about the time when the sauce finally starts to get good.

                For a sauce, combine soy sauce, vinegar, and sesame oil in a 5:2:1 ratio. To that, add garlic (crushed only for a sauce that will sit for a longer period, crushed and minced for a short term sauce) and any other spices you want. Let the sauce sit for at least 2-3 hours. At the 8 hour mark, the garlic starts to really get worked in there; at the 48 hour mark is when it gets really good though.

                1. re: angrychineseguy
                  Candy Mar 24, 2009 03:09 PM

                  I spent a good amount of time testing recipes for a new book on Asian dumplings last summer. It will be out in the fall. With the hot water dough I found that my tortilla press was my best friend. I introduced that to a Vietnamese friend who was over the moon after trying her own skins with my press. I had to order tortilla presses for her, her sister and mom. It makes it a snap. She could not believe how quick and easy it was.

                2. re: alwayscooking
                  i
                  i8dumplings Mar 25, 2009 09:58 AM

                  There is no comparison, really. The store-bought dough is thin (almost as thin as a good wonton skin), will cook up translucent (but eaten more al dente than wonton skins), and (of course) very even. The handmade ones are thicker (haven't tried the torilla press option, but even a very experienced dumpling maker can't get them as thin, using a short dowel rolling pin), they aren't as see-through (probably because they are thicker), and have interesting surface texture (and better tooth/chewiness). Dough should be pretty soft and easy to work with after resting, if you have put in the right about of water to begin with. Wish Chinese grandmothers used a scale, so you could have the hydration info, but it's typically eyeballed. The hot water dough / cold water dough debate is a long-standing and fairly personal decision.

                  Personally, I like the handmade ones much better, but it's a real chore rolling them immediately before wrapping, especially by yourself. Great for a group project if you have extra hands around. They are easier to pan-fry direct from frozen, you brown them in a little oil, straight from the freezer, pour in a little boiling water, then cover tightly to steam and when the water has all evaporated and the tops are cooked, you uncover and let the bottoms crisp up. And I've kept them a lot longer than a couple months, zip bagged in the freezer.

                3. jeniyo Mar 24, 2009 11:38 AM

                  oh yeah. we freeze ours too. just put on floured sheet pan and freeze for a few hours, toss them in a baggie for a few weeks.

                  1. jeniyo Mar 24, 2009 11:32 AM

                    what a coincidence! i made some dumplings yesterday for dinner. we made our own skins with cold water and flour. I think, if i remember correctly (may be the other way around), that cold water produces a harder dough and hot/warm water produces a softer dough. Usually we use cold water for dumplings since it makes it stretchier and therefore it is easiler to roll thinner and it is sturdier. the softer dough we would use for scallion pancakes.

                    i personally prefer the handmade dough because it is easiler to assemble than the premade stuff (just pinch and go, no wet sticky pastry brush).

                    to make the dough, it is important to have someone show you because it is generally by feel. i'm rather young, and i know only of what my mother and grandmother taught. Maybe my version is a half-as*ed version because chinese people does not like to document or measure...

                    put a generous amount of flour in a large bowl (i'd say perhaps 5+ cups) fit large bowl in the sink (because i'm short). make a well in the middle of the flour and pour in around a half cup of water, start stiring the flour mixture with your hand so that the water clumps up the dough in strings. continue to drizzle more water until the dough is evenly distributed with moist clumps but don't let it get too wet. there should be plenty of dry flour pieces in the bottom. knead the dough in the bowl until it forms a cohesive mass. the dough is usually has dry spots and cracks. knead a few time on the board and clean off the crumbs in the bowl. put the dough back in the bowl, cover with wet paper towel/towel and let it sit for around 30-45 min, until it feels like the dough has become more hydrated.

                    knead the dough for several minutes so that some of the gluten develops in the dough.

                    use the extra dough for scallion pancakes =)

                    1. a
                      angrychineseguy Mar 24, 2009 10:46 AM

                      My advice is actually gonna be contradictory to your question, but here it is... don't do homemade dumpling skins (and yes, skin is the proper Mandarin to English translation) unless one of the following things is true:

                      - You have someone that is very experienced in making them to teach you and judge the final product, in person.
                      - You have ABSOLUTELY no choice in the matter, ie the only choice in pre-made skins is from some non-Asian supermarket or you are forced to for a cooking class that requires everything to be made completely from scratch.

                      The reason I say this is very simple, a properly made skin is not easy to do... at all. It needs to be strong enough to hold in the meat while simultaneously being thin enough that you should be able to distinguish the little flecks of whatever vegetable you are using from the outside. The balance required to make great skins is hard to master your first few times, you probably will have to do it around 3-4 times to actually get it right if you don't have someone on hand to teach you. The closest western food equivalent in balance/difficulty would probably be a traditional gnocchi.

                      I would seek out your local Asian grocery store and buy pre-made skins from there. If you don't know of one, ask an Asian person you know. You know you're in the right place when you're in a place that smells like fish and something else you can't put your finger on, most of the people there aren't speaking in English, and there are no more than 10 white people there at any given time. Once you locate such an establishment, you should be able to find premade skins. If the ones they have are imported, always choose ones made in Taiwan over the ones made in China. Why? Taiwan cares what people put in food products, China doesn't. But if possible, get ones made semi-locally.

                      As for making the dumplings beforehand, if you are gonna refrigerate them, plastic wrap em to keep in the moisture. Also, if you want to, you can make a large batch and freeze em. As long as you take measures to prevent freezer burn, they can keep for at least a month or two.

                      1 Reply
                      1. re: angrychineseguy
                        c
                        CoconutMilk Apr 14, 2009 06:53 PM

                        actually I made them totally from scratch and they turned out really well, almost as good as this awesome dumpling place in my area. I made two batches. A hot water dough for pot stickers and a cold water dough for boiled dumplings. They were ugly and a number of them were too thick, but I think next time I will get some help and this will definitely become a monthly activity, especially in the colder months when i crave dumplings. Hopefully I'll just get better with practice.

                      2. k
                        kandmls Mar 24, 2009 10:27 AM

                        jiaozi, jiaozi, jiaozi jiaozi, jing jing jing

                        sorry, couldn't resist

                        3 Replies
                        1. re: kandmls
                          alkapal Mar 24, 2009 05:14 PM

                          and that means?

                          1. re: alkapal
                            k
                            kandmls Mar 24, 2009 05:47 PM

                            In mandarin, chinese dumplings are jiaozi. OMG are they good!(hen hao)

                            1. re: kandmls
                              alkapal Mar 24, 2009 05:59 PM

                              and jing jing jing is just your happy sound? ;-).

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