An Eater's Tour suggestions

[neighborguy]

Let's say..hypothetically...you had a couple of months to wind your way (maybe not in a straight line) down SE Asia from HK to Indonesia and the itinerary was fairly open...where would you stop, based on great eats and environment?

[Charles Yu]

Depending on ones budget, I would spend a whole month in Hong Kong and Macau, going through eateries mentioned in the Michelin Guide and the Tatler guide page by page. Plus other recs., by fellow CHers like Sher.eats, Fourseasons and Peech and 'openrice'blog. I would make side trips to GuangZhou and Shenzhen for 'free range' poultries and other authentic Cantonese food. Just trying out the various varietal of ree range chicken - Lung Kong, Ching Yuen, Sing Ping...etc is worth the trip. I'll make Bangkok my next destination. Eating at outdoor hawker stalls as well as trying out both the spicy traditional Thai food and the much milder Royal Thai. Next, I 'll solicit the help of CHers Fourseasons and Klyeoh and head out to Jakarta for some genuine Indonesian chow. Based on the Malaysian meals I had in S'pore, I wasn't too impressed. However, If time permits I'll definitely go visit KL, Penang and Ipoh. Finally, whether you would like to head down to S'pore is up to you. Assuming you have time and money to eat around all the afore-mentioned places, I think you'll find S'pore's offering kind of tame?!

[lasvegas]

We been Thailand, Vietnam, Singapore, Bali, Malaysia and vote goes to Malaysia. Singapore's good too but 3-4 times the price. Thailand and Vietnam are great for cheap eats but darn good food with varity? Gotta go Malaysia.

[neighborguy]

Malaysia was my favourite for flavours and overall variety. The hawker stall experience was fun.
Unfortunately there are only a handfull of placed in Toronto doing anything close to what one would find in KL. Nest time I'll check out Panang and Ipoh.

[lasvegas]

Darn right about varity in Malaysia. We spent couple of days each in Melaka and Penang too. Nice places too but KL has much bigger range and selection.

[penang_rojak]

neighborguy, SE Asia has an extremely rich & diverse food culture, so you'd probably need to make up your mind on what kinds of food really appeals to you. Let me know if you want to visit Malaysia, I can certainly recommend some great eating spots in cities like:

1) Penang, famous for its street foods: Penang fried koay teow (best noodle dish in the world!), Penang laksa noodles, prawn noodles, popiah (spring rolls), oyster omelette, nasi kandar (Indian-Muslim rice with curries), fried koay kak, curry noodles, satay, roti canai, Indian murtabak & many, many other delicious foods to try.

2) Ipoh (Perak state), another hawker food/dining paradise - try Ipoh horfun (flat rice noodles) with poached chicken & beansprouts, lor bak, pork & chicken intestines satay, etc.

3) Kuala Lumpur, with its rich Cantonese-influenced Chinese dishes - KL black-sauced Fukien chow meen (Hokkien noodles), wantan meen, fried sang har meen, Malay nasi lemak, etc.

4) Malacca for its Peranakan cuisine (a unique fusion of of Malay & Chinese cooking) with dishes like ayam buah keluak, babi pongteh, itik tim, bakwan kepiting, etc; Portuguese-Eurasian dishes like Beef Smore, Frikadelle, Curry Devil, etc.

5) Kota Bharu (Kelantan state), Malaysian East Coast cuisine, with dishes like nasi dagang, ayam percik, solok lada, nasi kerabu, etc.

[neighborguy]

The recs sound interesting so far.

I really enjoyed the quality and exoticness of the stall food in BKK when I was there several years back, in addition to the very different atmosphere(s) the city has to offer. So if there is an experience I could compare to that would be it.

After having the real deal in Thailand there are very few places in Toronto that can come close to the bar that was set. As for Malaysian food, anything over there will be superfantastic is my guess. It's surprising the lack of good Malaysian/Singaporean fare here in Toronto considering all our immigrants.

[klyeoh]

Two cities whose street foods rival (if not surpass, in some cases) Bangkok's would be Penang & Ho Chi Minh City.

Hue (Vietnam) also has an interesting cuisine based on the Nguyen dynasty imperial court cuisine.

If you want to traipse over to Sarawak (East Malaysia, on Borneo), you'll find piquant Sarawak laksa (rice noodles in an intoxicating soup, garnished with prawns & shredded chicken), kio-chiap koay teow (fried hor fun in tomato-based sauce), aromatic curry mee (noodles) and indigenous tribal dishes. Best Sarawak laksa is on Carpenter St.

[Charles Yu]

Hello klyeoh! I was right to recommend you to our Toronto chow-friend! You're the man!! Always amazed by your vast knowledge base!

[klyeoh]

Hi Charles, I hope neighborguy comes by this way. We'd love to introduce him to memorable eating spots, preferably those not on the tourist trail/guidebooks, offering great food at good prices.

[debbieann]

Any suggestions of where in Hue to try that cuisine? We're in Hanoi and headed to Hue in a few days.

[M_Gomez]

Do plan a 2-3 day stopover in Singapore! We do have some interesting food/hawker centres and ethnic neighborhoods for you to explore, and commuting around the city in the MRT underground trains or taxis are a breeze, compared to other South-East Asian cities.

Some suggestions:
1. Tiong Bharu Food Centre for steamed chwee kueh (rice cakes topped with salted radish), fried Hokkien noodles, fried chye tow kueh (it's called "carrot cake", but actually uses radish), roast pork rice, Nyonya kuehs & glutinous rice dumplings (sold by Kim Choo Kueh Chang stall) and many other things to try.
2. Amoy St Food Centre - great fried koay teow noodles, loh mee (braised noodles), fish soup.
3. Maxwell Road Food Centre for Tian Tian chicken rice, Hainan curry rice, steamed potato cakes & onde-onde, Cantonese rice congee. Its proximity to Chinatown also makes it easy for you to explore the food stalls on Smith St, Mosque St, etc.
4. Zion Road Food Centre. Good fried koay teow noodles, satay, Chinese ch'ng tng dessert.
5. Go down to Arab Street area for good Malay food, e.g. Sabar Menanti for nasi padang.
6. Go to Little India for Southern Indian breakfast (Komala Vilas).

[Charles Yu]

Since neighborguy is from Toronto, I'm assuming he has the same taste and palette for chicken as myself ie., prefer the taste and texture of 'free range' chicken. As such, I believe like myself he will find the Tian TIan chicken too mushy and tasteless ( just tried them with CHers Fourseasons and Klyeoh at our mini-chowmeet a month ago ). The rice was OK though!

[M_Gomez]

Oh dear, perhaps you might appreciate the "Five Star Chicken Rice" chain then - they supposedly use "kampung", meaning free-range "village" chickens. Tian Tian is the most oft-quoted chicken rice stall, and it's not a "chain", unlike Five Star and Boon Tong Kee, so I guess that's why your fellow CHs took you there.

Back to why Singapore chickens are tasteless - chickens normally have a lifespan of 10-15 years, and older chickens develop more flavours. Unfortunately, in Singapore, producers try to lower costs as much as possible, most of our chickens are "battery hens", poor, unfortunate birds who spend their short lives cooped up in dark, crowded conditions, and slaughtered when they are fully-grown (fed with growth steroids, I supposed) at a mere 5 weeks old! Is it any wonder then that their flesh taste "mushy and tasteless" as you say? I myself prefer to eat chicken only when I'm out of Singapore, e.g. in Hong Kong, Bangkok or Indonesia where I know they have "real" chickens.

[FourSeasons]

Hi Gomez:

I agree with your comments. The reason I brought CharlesYu to Tian Tian is because it has been voted as the most popular chicken rice stall, not because it is my personal favorite. For "kampung chicken rice", I actually prefer Chicken House at Thomson Road.

Having said that, this is not the way Singaporeans generally judge their "chicken rice". Most Singaporeans actually don't like free range chicken, they find the meat too tough. They like chicken that is fatty and tender; they actually got the flavor from the fragrance of the ginger garlic, the chili and the rice rather than the meat itself. This is a subtlety that I think many foreigners may not realize thinking that "chicken rice" is about "chicken" but in reality to Singaporeans, the other ingredients are just as important.

But on second thought, I probably should have brought Charles to Chatterbox at Meritus Mandarin Hotel, more expensive but they cut thinner slices with generous serving of ginger garlic and chilli that perhaps bring out more flavor compared to Tian Tian. Well, how about the next chow meet then?

[M_Gomez]

Sigh, you're right - our young Singaporeans' (I'm not one of them - since I'm in my 60s, ha!) tastebuds have been "conditioned" by all the commercialized foodstuffs which they fed on, until they can't tell between good/organic stuff and genetically-modified products anymore.

Some hawker foods which they liked e.g. fried Hokkien mee at Chomp Chomp, Serangoon Gdns are so mass-produced & bland & tasteless, but still have fans which will travel from all over the island for it. Same goes for the Changi Village nasi lemak, the Punggol nasi lemak and the Market Street nasi lemak places. Our tastebuds are dead!

it's nice to see that Chatterbox's chicken rice has improved to its former standards nowadays. At one point, it slided after the departure of the original chef till the rice tasted like animal-feed, I'm sorry to say.

Nowdays, my favourite lunch place remains (as always) the Penang buffet at Princess Terrace, Copthorne Kings Hotel. Besides its proximity to my home, the standards there are consistent as it's always been for the last 20-30 years. Millennium & Copthorne executive director, Mr Yeoh Cheng Kung, is from Penang, so he makes sure the food is authentic, and he's been there for more than 25 years or so. Princess Terrace manager, Christopher Ng, is another Penangite, so are the current batch of chefs.

I was so worried after the long-serving Penang husband-and-wife team left for London to work for a HPL hotel there (I know the wife, Mary Yeoh, very well). But I'm glad to find that the standards of the food, especially the Penang nyonya kueh-kueh have not changed at all. It's still the best buffet for people of my generation in town - you can see that 70%-80% of the customers every day are regularslike me, and we are all in our 50s & 60s. If you ever see a bunch of middle-aged ladies chattering loudly in one corner whilst stuffing our faces, that'll be me amongst them!

Do let me know if you have a chow meet. I may not be able to eat as much, but will be happy to catch up with other chowhounds in Singapore.

[FourSeasons]

Sure, please email your email address to my email that is posted on my profile so that I will inform you if there is another chow meet.

I have not tried the Penang buffet at Copthorne but I have tried a few times the Penang buffet organized by York Hotel (I think twice per year) which arrange to fly down some well known Penang hawkers to cook in its coffee shop. How is the comparison to the buffet at Copthorne?

[klyeoh]

Love the Copthorne King's Hotel's Princess Terrace. I think York Hotel's seasonal Penang hawker promotion is a bit more authentic (they flew in Penang hawkers).

Some address links:

[Charles Yu]

Hello fellow chowfriends,
Wow! Based on the above, looks like the food I'll be savouring during my next Singapore trip/chowmeet will be totally different! Ha! May be next time we'll add a chili/pepper crab to the mix! As well, may be we'll have some 'different curries' from Little India. As mentioned to Fourseasons during my last trip, I think I'll wait for Sentosa to be more developed so I'll more places to visit. Since the lady owner of St. Julian was so nice, may be we'll give her restaurant a try too?

[neighborguy]

When I was last in HK I did notice a marked difference in the flavour and texture of the meats compared to what we have here in N. America. Pork and chicken were 'springy' -- and not in a good way -- with very little flavour to boot.

Bravo! I've been returning to my post and all the recs sound incredibly vivid!!! I just assume the surrounding cities for all the restaurants and stalls are as equally stimulating (I will be taking rests between meals and snacks and will need to see and do touristy things -- like all the stuff we don't have in Canada...)

[skylineR33]

You must be kidding. Not sure where you have gone to in HK, but chicken of Hong Kong has much more flavour than any chicken in North America. They use live fresh chicken in HK rather than the frozen one in NA !

[Charles Yu]

Hello skylineR33 and neighborguy,

I think both your comments have points that are valid. However, I would like to chip in the following:

- From sources close to the industry, nowadays, quite a few good Chinese restaurants here in Toronto are using ' fresh, non-frozen, free range' chicken and pigeon which they obtained directly from farms here in Ontario. In fact they can even pick the 'species' they like. For example, John's B-B-Q like to use ' Lung Kong', Judy's Cuisine - 'Sing Ping' and Tanchikee - 'Ching Yuen'. O'Mei also uses Lung Kong chicken. As such, the meat of the bird is more springy and chewy and the taste has more 'chicken flavour'. Even the bones are harder, due to their roaming around!

- Though the majority of HK's eateries do use 'Live Chicken', however, live chicken does not always denote 'Free Range chicken'. Therefore, depending on the species, whether the chicken is just 'live' or 'live-free range' and the calibre of the kitchen, the end product might not always be as flavourful as one would hoped for!! A fine example was the meal I had at the Hong Kong Jockey's club Chinese restaurant ( one of HK's top kitcken ), before I returned back to TO a couple of weeks ago. My friend ordered a whole 'Rose essence soya chicken', their house specialty. Though the overall taste was good, however, the chicken meat texture was still a bit too 'mushy' for my liking and the meat, especially the white-meat breast part totally lacking in 'chicken taste'. When I enquired, guess what? I was told that they uses live 'local breed' chicken (raised in ' coup-up' farm in Yuen Long) and not free range ones. On the other hand, when I returned back to TO, I had the soya chicken in Fantasy Eatery a few days later. The chicken, believe it or not, was actually tastier than the HK Jockey club's version!! Due to the fact that Fantasy uses free range, may be?!

- I was told even Yung Kee uses different 'grade and quality' of goose for their club level, VIP 4th floor and the rest of the restaurants! I have eaten in all three and I must admit the goose served in the first two definitely tasted better. ' Live free range special crown ones' for the special guests may be?!

[skylineR33]

Hi Charles,

I also have chicken at Omei, Judy and Tanchikee ... the quality, however I think is far from the one I had in HK. The soya chicken I had at Fantasy Eatery is good, however too rough, the sauce is very nice and strong which cover up any kind of chicken though I think. Same with Omei's, too rough, dry to my liking.

Ummm, I really do not think the one in Toronto are comparable to Ching Yuen or Lone Kong, as they are far from the real one I had before. The texture of Lone Kong chicken is also smooth, it is not firm like Ching Yuen. Ching Yuen is firm but not "rough" as most of the one in Toronto from my experience. Also, the "red" near the bone and the bone of the chicken does not look like the chicken in Toronto are really from live fresh. For those chicken in Toronto which you talked about, it is more like the chilled chicken (冰鮮雞) of HK, which is not frozen chicken. It takes time to butcher and process the chicken from a farm in Ontario and then transport to a restaurant in Toronto area, and I think the health inpection policy in Ontario is quite strict. In HK, if a chicken is butchered, inpected, processed and tranport within a temperature of 0 to 4 degrees to the buyer within 8 hours, it is called chilled chicken. Also in Toronto, I doubt if all the chickens can be consumed by the restaurant on the same day, because if not, the taste deteriorate significantly on the next day when cooked. That's why restaurant like "Tak Long" of HK only has a limited amount of live fresh chicken available (like 10) each day.

The one you had at HK Jockey Club is a HK local breed "Ka May" chicken, the texture is smooth (or "mushy") when compared to Lone Kong, but lack of chicken flavour. There is also another kind called "Hong Bo" chicken which is a free range organic HK local breed, which comes with a stronger flavour.

[Charles Yu]

Wow! Great info, skylineR33! Learn a lot from you! Thx!
BTW, which Fantasy did you try out the chicken? The Time Square one is a bit sub-par when compared to the Midland one.
Best chicken in HK this time round was the one I had at the Chinese restaurant inside the 'Festival Walk' mall above Kowloon Tong's station. Forgot the English name of the place ( its mentioned in HK tatler though ), but the chicken was even better than the 2* Tang Court in TST.

[skylineR33]

Hello Charles, I have tried both Fantasy's chicken, I agree that Time Square is sub-par comparing to the Midland one.

[FourSeasons]

Hi Charles:

Actually I am a bit surprised by your comment on the preference of "free range chicken" in Toronto. I thought there is hardly any "free range chicken" in North America; most of the chicken I tried in North America, whether in major cities in US or Canada (Well, just Vancouver), even the soya chicken in Chinese restaurants, are the hormone-injected fatty chicken.

[Charles Yu]

Good morning Fourseasons,
Free range chicken and grass fed cattle are the 'in thing' in Canada right now!
Almost every good Chinese restaurants in Toronto serve the firmer texture, tastier free range varietal. Good western restaurants also serve naturally raised organic beef. ( also, bison, venison and elk ). I know Vancouver has a huge Taiwanese run farm 'Wing Tat ' that supply various species of free range chicken and other poultries to Chinese supermarkets and Chinese restaurants all over Canada. Next time you come visit your relatives in Vancouver, be sure to ask for free range chicken!

[Sam Fujisaka]

I've worked all over SE Asia over 15 years trhere. I would definitely include: Laos (even just Vientiane is OK although north to Luang Prabang is popular with everyone or south to Savannakhet is what I'd add), Vietnam (people debate Hanoi vs Saigon - both are great, as are Hue in central Vietnam and Canh Tho in the delta), Burma (go from Rangoon to Mandalay and back by train, eat at both ends), and Indonesia (you'll have to select where from Sumatra to Bali and points in between). As per the above discussions, Singapore and Hong Kong are fantastic, but I prefer un-named street and roadside places in remore rural areas more than the (even great) food in these two cities.

Overall, I'd spend a few days in each - Singapore and Hong Kong, followed by Vientiane, Luang Prabang, and then by boat upriver to Oudoumxay, followed by Saigon and at least a week deep in the delta region.