602033 Sun Mar 08 09:11:10 -0700 2009 125 31 Home Cooking 0 4484277 Jfood modified significantly from a famous chef and through 5-6 changes came up with his favorite amounts and method. Jfood's Red Wine Braised Short Ribs This recipe needs planning. Jfood normally serves on a Sunday night. So he marinates the ribs on Friday night and prepares during the day on Saturday. Then around 5PM he starts Sunday dinner and these are ready to go. This recipe should feed 6 with sides. INGREDIENTS 4-5 pounds beef short ribs, cut into 4” chops (this should give 12-14 pieces) Sea salt and freshly ground pepper, to taste 3 cups red wine ½ Cup sugar 1 tablespoon minced fresh garlic 3 sprigs fresh or heaping Tablespoon dry thyme 3 ounces oil 2 Cups small-diced onion ½ Cup small-diced celery ½ Cup small-diced carrots 6 ounces canned chopped tomatoes 2 cups beef broth 2-4 pounds cremini mushrooms 2 bay leaves DIRECTIONS Day 1 1. Generously season the short ribs with salt and pepper. In a large mixing bowl, whisk together the red wine, sugar, garlic, thyme and a pinch of salt. Marinate the short ribs in the wine mixture for 12 hours in the refrigerator. 2. Slice mushrooms and sauté slowly until all of the liquid is evaporated and they just begin to brown. Remove to a separate bowl. This can be done day before and refrigerate. Day 2 3. Remove the short ribs from the wine and allow the beef to rest for several minutes and come to room temperature. Reserve marinade. 4. Pour 3 ounces oil into a Dutch oven over high heat. 5. Place the meat in the hot pan. This may take two batches. Stir and turn the meat often, carefully allowing each piece to brown on each side before removing from the pan. When browned (will take several minutes per side), remove the beef from the pan. 6. Add the onions, carrots, and celery. Stir constantly and allow the onions to cook until mahogany in color, about 10 minutes; if onions are browning too quickly, reduce to medium heat. 7. Add the short ribs back to the pot along with the reserved wine marinade. Allow the wine to come to a boil before reducing the heat to a simmer. 8. After several minutes, add remaining ingredients and bring to a boil 9. Cover the Dutch oven and place in a 275 degree oven for about 4 hours. 10. Refrigerate over night Day 3 11. Take the Dutch oven from the fridge and skim off the congealed fat. 12. Place the Dutch oven on the stove and bring the ribs to temperature. 13. Transfer short ribs to a dish and cover. 14. Season the short ribs and braising liquid with salt and pepper to taste. Sun Mar 08 09:11:10 -0700 2009 11290 jfood 1 4484475 3 days? Don't think I could wait that long. jfood, I'm not debating you because you sound like a better cook than me....just asking. I've never marinated any meat that I'm going to braise figuring anything in that pot is going to be infused into the meat. Also I skim off most of the fat when its done cooking and seems fine, although some things do taste better the 2nd day. Sun Mar 08 10:38:44 -0700 2009 4484277 11914 monku 2 4484537 Marinating the first 12 hours adds a flavor to the meat that is not present with just the sear and braise scenario. Jfood never serves braises (including brisket) the same day as cooking. Likewise when he takes it out of the fridge he scrapes that congealed fat off the top as well. Sun Mar 08 11:06:20 -0700 2009 4484475 11290 jfood 3 4484571 OK....I don't think I've seen any braising recipe call for marinating the meat. Like I said, I can't wait 3 days. Sun Mar 08 11:21:43 -0700 2009 4484537 11914 monku 4 4484575 Goin's recipes for beef braises definitely call for seasoning the meat with various ingredients and leaving it over night. Sun Mar 08 11:24:49 -0700 2009 4484571 10985 MMRuth 5 4484596 Just shows how well read I am. Sun Mar 08 11:34:10 -0700 2009 4484575 11914 monku 6 4484603 Well, to be fair, her recipes don't include any liquids overnight! Sun Mar 08 11:38:16 -0700 2009 4484596 10985 MMRuth 7 4484626 Yes, I saw that recipe. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/13/dining/13food.html?pagewanted=print Sun Mar 08 11:46:01 -0700 2009 4484603 11914 monku 4 4534202 I believe John Besh's popular short rib recipe calls for overnight marinating in wine. In fact, from memory jfood's recipe looks pretty similar to that of Besh (which is delicious by the way.) Edit: after rereading the OP and other posts in this thread, the Besh inspiration is noted. I'd love to try jfood's alterations, but here in Florida "summer" has surely arrived. Perhaps next Decemeber or January, or in a future life when I'm not incarcerated in the oppressive tropical flatlands, I will give it a go. Tue Mar 24 13:12:43 -0700 2009 4484571 106932 Agent Orange 5 4534213 Yes, I believe he has said elsewhere that his is adapted from Besh's recipe. Tue Mar 24 13:18:14 -0700 2009 4534202 10985 MMRuth 2 4486030 Isn't Beef Bourguignon traditionally marinated in red wine and herbs, preferably overnight? Most likely, given the time, this would be an ideal preparation for any braise. Sun Mar 08 21:00:52 -0700 2009 4484475 18385 CDouglas 3 4486050 Don't know. I've never made beef Bourguingnon. But, when I saw the red wine in jfood's recipe, I wondered what the difference between beef Bourguignon and his short rib recipe was except for the cut of meat. You tell me. Sun Mar 08 21:08:57 -0700 2009 4486030 11914 monku 3 4488927 Not necessarily. Made BB for a party a few weeks ago and researched a bunch of different recipes. Julia doesn't marinate the meat. Richard Olney does, but only for 3 hours. James Peterson marinates for 6 to 12. Don't recall seeing any that recommended marinating overnight. Mon Mar 09 17:02:06 -0700 2009 4486030 11407 JoanN 4 4495910 This site uses a recipe close to what I remember making, minus the grappa: http://fxcuisine.com/Default.asp?language=2&Display=141&resolution=high Wed Mar 11 16:56:51 -0700 2009 4488927 18385 CDouglas 1 4484477 Sound yummy.... and what does he like to serve with it? Sun Mar 08 10:40:24 -0700 2009 4484277 117271 Stuffed Monkey 2 4484535 a creamy gorgonzola polenta is the perfect side at our house. yes, two days before the first serving. leftovers are even better. as an aside, i have our butcher cut the ribs into six-inch lengths. Sun Mar 08 11:05:36 -0700 2009 4484477 10627 steve h. 2 4484540 Mid winter, he likes a mushroom risotto. Then as the weather gets better he moves to garlic mashed potatoes or fried polenta. Sun Mar 08 11:07:06 -0700 2009 4484477 11290 jfood 1 4484700 jfood. i have come to respect your posts BUT this quote is meaningless.: 4-5 pounds beef short ribs, cut into 4” chops (this should give 12-14 pieces) What do you mean? "chops"? Chops???? Your recipe is wonderful, i have used it forever, though i do add msg and a generous splash of soy. Do mean that you trim one end of the rib so that it looks like a chop? Sun Mar 08 12:24:28 -0700 2009 4484277 148516 mr jig 2 4484737 jfood buys them in 8-10" boneless strips. Then he cuts in half, so they are 4-5" strips about 1-1.5" thick and 2" wide. Sorry for the confusion. Sun Mar 08 12:33:22 -0700 2009 4484700 11290 jfood 3 4484762 not on the bone? Sun Mar 08 12:50:44 -0700 2009 4484737 10627 steve h. 4 4484777 I get boneless short ribs from Costco. I thought he meant short ribs (with bones) in his recipe too. Sun Mar 08 12:59:52 -0700 2009 4484762 11914 monku 5 4484784 yeah. we use anne burrell's recipe these days for wine-braised short ribs. i have my local grocery store butcher cut the ribs into six-inch lengths. we make it a day in advance and serve with creamy gorgonzola polenta and mushrooms. i can't imagine braising without the bone. that would be a totally different animal. here's a link to anne's recipe: http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/anne-burrell/braised-short-ribs-recipe/index.html Sun Mar 08 13:04:54 -0700 2009 4484777 10627 steve h. 6 4484814 I've made this dish a lot, I do a bit different but I too started with the John Besh recipe and did my own thing. I don' t marinate like jfood ( I keep forgetting!) I'm usually going for dinner and to eat the ribs that night, so I lack jfoods patience. I dredge the ribs in seasoned flour shake, and brown. I would support jfoods plan to use boneless, because after braising and the cooking time, these babies just slip off the bone anyway! Sun Mar 08 13:18:59 -0700 2009 4484784 50431 chef chicklet 7 4484842 the meat does indeed slip off the bone! still, the bones add both a dimension of flavor and an increased margin of cooking error when braising. i'll stick with the bones for now. re: creamy polenata. truffled mushrooms really put this dish over the top.it's a staple at scott conant's restaurant "scarpetta". good stuff. Sun Mar 08 13:28:07 -0700 2009 4484814 10627 steve h. 4 4484853 jfood made boneless last weekend and loved them. Sun Mar 08 13:34:16 -0700 2009 4484762 11290 jfood 5 4484878 jfood, osso bucco in the oven as we speak. it will be a monday night dinner. the house smells really good. i hate winter but i love the braises. back to rome next week. i suspect we'll be cooking far more than dining out this go-around. judy rodger's "zuni chicken" is a favorite. we get the chicken, bread, fennel, etc. at the campo de' fiori. i know she's a favorite of yours. keep cooking. Sun Mar 08 13:42:50 -0700 2009 4484853 10627 steve h. 6 4485020 jfood is beat. he's watching NC-Duke and relaxing. Trying to figure what to eat. Little jfood may bring a pizza from Joe's and hang out, grill some food for her apartment and go home. Quad batch of both Hazan bolognese and Raos, two lasagnes, 40 meatballs and a chocolate cake. BTW - recentlythe osso have been not so tender and jfood is beginning to lean to lamb shanks recently. Any reason you know why he has been disappointed with the veals? Safe trip Sun Mar 08 14:53:05 -0700 2009 4484878 11290 jfood 7 4485092 spaghetti and meatballs gets my vote. that's our dinner tonight. deb browned up a bunch today. must be something in the ct air. lamb shanks are outstanding. stamford's ferrante restaurant does a great version with colorado lamb. i hope they make it through the recession but i'm not holding my breath. we've replicated the recipe at home. the key is the colorado part in the equation. it really makes a difference. i hope the trip is slightly bumpy - makes things interesting. i've emailed chowhounder mbfant for some shopping/cooking advice. i understand she has opinions. :-) Sun Mar 08 15:18:31 -0700 2009 4485020 10627 steve h. 8 4485411 Little jfood just left after grilling some chicken and veggies for the next few nights and roasted some potatoes. She opted for the speghetti and meatballs. Jfood was nervous since he was a bit tired after on the road all week and then 24 Cups of red gravies yesterday so he decided to bake the meatballs. Wow, they had a different texture, much lighter and fluffier. So after 53 years of frying meatballs jfood is now a convert to baking them. Whoda thunk it? Sun Mar 08 17:23:39 -0700 2009 4485092 11290 jfood 9 4485484 we old dogs can always learn a few new tricks. it's all good. naches? yeah, that's it. Sun Mar 08 17:48:14 -0700 2009 4485411 10627 steve h. 5 4484971 Ah, boneless. I was just assuming bone-in. Going to Costco (50 mile drive) tomorrow or Tuesday. Will pick some up. Maybe they'll have those mushrooms also. Sun Mar 08 14:33:04 -0700 2009 4484853 131001 c oliver 6 4485025 the ones at CT Costco were boneless. 399/lb Sun Mar 08 14:53:41 -0700 2009 4484971 11290 jfood 6 4485435 This is going to sound stupid.....they're boneless so you aren't paying for the weight of the bones if you bought them with bone. Does it make a little sense? Sun Mar 08 17:31:22 -0700 2009 4484971 11914 monku 7 4485451 Are you talking to me or jfoodThe recipe that I've used for years (and a totally different technique) is bone-in ribs. His recipe is for boneless. So I want to now buy boneless and try his recipe. Are *you* even more confused? :) Sun Mar 08 17:36:08 -0700 2009 4485435 131001 c oliver 8 4485457 you can use bone-in or boneless. same recipe. The ones he bought were boneless at $3.99...great deal. Sun Mar 08 17:37:41 -0700 2009 4485451 11290 jfood 9 4485468 Definitely a great price. The bone-in ones are that much. Sun Mar 08 17:40:40 -0700 2009 4485457 131001 c oliver 10 4485546 jfood is seeing bone-ins for $6.99, boneless at $3.99, jfood almost made 9 pounds Sun Mar 08 18:07:05 -0700 2009 4485468 11290 jfood 11 4485566 Do these generate a good bit of fat/juice? I was wondering about taking the ribs out of the pan, putting the sauce in a bowl so that the fat can be lifted off more easily the next day. Any thoughts on that? Sun Mar 08 18:11:40 -0700 2009 4485546 131001 c oliver 12 4485583 short ribs, by nature have an amount of fat that will render slowly during the braise. Jfood places the whole braising pot into the fridge overnight, that way the ribs stay with their flavor buddies. Then when you take them out of the fridge the next day, the congealed fat is easy to scrape off like icing on a cake. Jfood thinks if you separate them the meat may dry out and not have as much flavor the next day. Sun Mar 08 18:17:30 -0700 2009 4485566 11290 jfood 8 4486027 Talking to you c oliver. My Costco doesn't sell bone-in short ribs. I was adding my 2 cents that it seems like a better value than buying bone-in because you aren't paying for the bone, but you still get some of that great connective tissue around the bone. Sun Mar 08 20:59:25 -0700 2009 4485451 11914 monku 1 4484788 Have you ever tested the addition of some pitted dates to your recipe? I saw such a recipe, tried it, and the result was quite good. Sun Mar 08 13:07:23 -0700 2009 4484277 10483 Joebob 1 4485488 Thanks for the recipe and technique. It will be on next week's menu. This week is CI's cassoulet recipe I've been asked to test. It's also a 3-4 dayer and only one of those is allowed per week. Sun Mar 08 17:49:07 -0700 2009 4484277 155034 alwayscooking 2 4485548 The CI recipes they have asked jfood to test have been pure crap. Sun Mar 08 18:07:44 -0700 2009 4485488 11290 jfood 3 4485559 hmmm - this one was one of the first that looked halfway decent (I pass on nearly all). I've never made cassoulet or the duck confit - that's the allure. Should I just pass on this one as well and do my own thing? Sun Mar 08 18:10:42 -0700 2009 4485548 155034 alwayscooking 4 4485597 Yeah, this weeks was a lemon torta withthe torta made with white bread. Blech. Sun Mar 08 18:19:53 -0700 2009 4485559 11290 jfood 5 4485605 Who's asking y'all to test recipes? I'm impressed. Sun Mar 08 18:22:03 -0700 2009 4485597 131001 c oliver 5 4485609 Oh my - Didn't get that recipe and hope it never sees the light outside the test kitchens! Did it use RealLemon as well? Sun Mar 08 18:23:08 -0700 2009 4485597 155034 alwayscooking 6 4485699 no, at least it used real lemons Sun Mar 08 19:00:49 -0700 2009 4485609 11290 jfood 1 4485792 "3 sprigs fresh or 1 heaping Tablespoon dry thyme" in the short-rib recipe: The fresh amount sounds about right, but 1 heaping TB of dry thyme seems a bit heavy-handed. Am I right? Sun Mar 08 19:31:23 -0700 2009 4484277 123801 zamorski 2 4485862 lot of big flavors to begin with, so a T was not too much Sun Mar 08 19:56:19 -0700 2009 4485792 11290 jfood 1 4488871 leftover beef short rib makes for a killer grilled cheese sandwich. pair the shredded beef with taleggio cheese on some nice italian bread. "grill" in a tiny bit of butter in a cast iron pan until the cheese melts. some pickled red onions on the side make things even better. beer is the drink of choice but suit yourself. Mon Mar 09 16:44:47 -0700 2009 4484277 10627 steve h. 1 4527775 I've also made this John Besh recipe many times (which this recipe is, aside from mushroom amount and simmering method). It requires some planning, but it's fairly simple, the results are delicious and unctuous, and I enjoy the fragrance that permeates the house for 5 hours. (I simmer uncovered on stovetop, as the original instructs, use reconstituted porcinis and their broth, and reduce the braising liquid down before serving.) An old vine zinfandel works well in this recipe and I always prefer using bone-in to boneless ribs, as the bones can only add more flavor and body to the braising liquid. I've also used the Besh recipe with bison short-ribs with great success. Sun Mar 22 13:09:23 -0700 2009 4484277 239573 choco_lab38 2 4529181 CL Jfood does not know your motive for such a post, but jfood has posted the Besh recipe many times and gives rave reviews to it. He also feels these changes make it better. Aren't all recipes based on something else? But don't you think it would have been easier to just post a link to the Besh vesus the deltas? Here, let Jfood help you and others find it in case anyone wants to use John's versus Jfood's. http://www.esquire.com/features/recipes-for-men/shortribs1107 Ciao Mon Mar 23 06:03:57 -0700 2009 4527775 11290 jfood 3 4529347 I've seen many short rib posts, but the cut is unknown to me here in the UK. Does anyone know what we call it please? Is it the ribs and meaty attachments which can be cut away from a rib roast? Thanks. Mon Mar 23 07:16:35 -0700 2009 4529181 156990 Robin Joy 4 4529841 Does the term flanken cut mean anything to you? I've heard that in Britain the short ribs are cut differently, and it's called a flanken cut here, but I don't know if that's the term used in the UK. I don't think the short ribs are the same as the part of the ribs from a rib roast, but I could be wrong. Seems to me they're a tougher cut that is usually braised; closer to the chuck, perhaps? Mon Mar 23 09:33:37 -0700 2009 4529347 98500 Bat Guano 4 4534218 There is a big thread on the GT board about this - searching is tough right now, but I know that Harters, greedygirl and I all participated. Edit - http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/514230 Tue Mar 24 13:19:15 -0700 2009 4529347 10985 MMRuth 5 4535780 Thank you both. Tue Mar 24 22:36:37 -0700 2009 4534218 156990 Robin Joy 5 4536467 Oh, wow, I got it totally wrong, then. Thanks for the link. Wed Mar 25 07:58:08 -0700 2009 4534218 98500 Bat Guano 1 4533461 I tried Jfood's method of marinating the ribs overnight, I normally do the two day method instead. The result was great. Tue Mar 24 10:05:23 -0700 2009 4484277 92180 gourmet wife 2 4550277 I made it this weekend! And followed the recipe to the letter (which I tend not to as a rule) other than I had bone in. My gosh was it good!! Even my biggest critic (my 17 year old) -loved it. Thanks Jfood for posting it. I was mistaken when I thought I didn't like short ribs! Mon Mar 30 05:41:26 -0700 2009 4533461 96057 dklipscomb 1 4571287 Do you saute the mushrooms in butter or oil? Too lazy to reread all 61 replies so pardon if already answered. Mon Apr 06 08:01:44 -0700 2009 4484277 131001 c oliver 2 4585158 EVOO. The duxelle is when ALL the liquid has come out and evaporated. Sorry for the delay but this did not come up on MyChow. Fri Apr 10 13:00:49 -0700 2009 4571287 11290 jfood 1 4584850 Just want to give a status report. I've just put this in the oven and I already know how good it's going to be! Last night I sliced and sauteed the mushrooms while Mr. O assembled the meat and marinade. This morning I did all the browning, slicing and dicing. After browning the meat (I really liked that larger amount of oil) I had to pull off a little piece of browned fat and it wass already good. Then HAD to taste the vegetables after cooking them. Then the marinade after it had come to a boil and finally the uncooked sauce. jfood, every step so far has been SO delicious. At one point I actually said out loud "oh my, this is so good." ('Course I talk to myself alot anyway!) Good thing I'm making kattyeyes Reuben soup for dinner or I'd be tempted to not wait until tomorrow. A friend of mine isn't eating meat until Easter so I'm going to take her some to break her fast. I'll report back later but wanted to write while this is all fresh in mind. Thanks alot for sharing this. Fri Apr 10 11:31:32 -0700 2009 4484277 131001 c oliver 2 4585163 Jfood's pleasure. Five days solo with the dog. Chicken Parm tonite. Fri Apr 10 13:02:40 -0700 2009 4584850 11290 jfood 3 4585180 My avatar did a great job licking the floor in front of the stove after I did all that browning :) Re being alone, I describe it as I enjoy the opportunity to miss him. Sincerely. Don't hesitate to share Chicken Parm recipe and anything others. I haven't failed with you yet. Made raviolis a second time. Just as good and I wasn't even skeered :) Oh, and used leftover filling (after breaking the pasta roller) as a spread on crackers. Fri Apr 10 13:08:41 -0700 2009 4585163 131001 c oliver 4 4585234 The only thing jfood does special is a technique he learned from a great Italian restaurant in NYC. 1- pound the breast (the chicken, not your own at this point) 2 - bread and fry the breast in a saute pan 3 - lay mozzy on top of the breast 4 - place the sauce AROUND the chicken, not on top 5 - place under broiler until cheese melt 6 - slide onto plate 7 - eat 8 now you can pound your breast. :-)) Fri Apr 10 13:25:06 -0700 2009 4585180 11290 jfood 5 4585355 Made me snort but no wine this time :) Fri Apr 10 14:13:19 -0700 2009 4585234 131001 c oliver 3 4586124 Taste test: wonderful Dinner tomorrow :) Fri Apr 10 19:33:47 -0700 2009 4585163 131001 c oliver 1 4588431 We're going to have to have a dinner party! The ribs are so good but so rich. So amazingly rich. We just served with egg noodles and little French green beans. Even Mr. O couldn't eat all of his and he always eats all of his :) So we'll invite friends over to share. I have to share with you that I believe the ribs were maybe a little old. Without the sauce they had a slightly off flavor. Not like it was going to make us sick but just a smidge not right. But with that sauce, ooh la la. And the mushrooms? So wonderful. Definitely a keeper. Thanks, kid. Sat Apr 11 20:14:58 -0700 2009 4484277 131001 c oliver 2 4588753 7AM, one sip of coffee and jfood came to check to see how you enjoyed them. Glad it worked out. And the mushroom addition really adds that earthiness to Besh's base. Jfood going to give your chicken technique a whirl in the next few hours Sun Apr 12 04:15:31 -0700 2009 4588431 11290 jfood 3 4588994 Re chicken, now I'M the one who will be checking back. It's not gourmet fare like these ribs but a quick, easy and tasty piece of chicken. Later. Sun Apr 12 07:30:14 -0700 2009 4588753 131001 c oliver 3 4592984 We've nicknamed them "j-ribs." Becca the Elder (our older daughter) will be here for a couple of nights this week. Maybe serve them to her. Mmm. Mon Apr 13 18:15:50 -0700 2009 4588753 131001 c oliver 1 4588782 I do a very similar recipe with a few differences. I buy bone-in (haven't seen boneless), and wonder if the boneless has enough collagen to give body to the sauce. After it's cold, is the sauce gelatinized? Certainly handier dealing with boneless. Also, I prep at night, pop it into a 250 degree oven at about 11pm and let it cook overnight for about 8 hours. In the morning, I separate the meat and vegetables from the sauce and refrigerate. This makes it easier to remove the fat, which forms a single disk on top of my container. Finally, when I reheat for serving, I first strain and then cook the sauce till it reduces substantially. This makes a very thick sauce even though no roux or other thickener is involved. Sun Apr 12 05:06:55 -0700 2009 4484277 10814 sbp 1 4594721 Short rib aficianados, big question - don't the boneless short ribs from Costco lack the same flavor that cooked bone-in short ribs have? I too have a Costco membership and for years have been making my brother schlep me bone-in ribs from Sam's Club, because I perceived that boneless would taste inferior? Shy CHers, your thoughts? Tue Apr 14 10:27:32 -0700 2009 4484277 15139 Diane in Bexley 2 4595466 I'd be interested to hear what people who have tried both think. I would assume the boneless lacks that ring of connective tissue that joins the meat to the bone. This is loaded with collagen, which adds so much richness to the braise. Though it is essentially gristle and, when I make chili, for example, I remove it AFTER braising. Which is a ridiculously labor intensive practice. My braising liquid turns to jelly in the refrigerator -- does the boneless rib braise get that gelatinous? Tue Apr 14 13:46:33 -0700 2009 4594721 10814 sbp 2 4595467 there is a difference. the bones add to the braise. further, they add a margin of error to the overall cooking time. find a good butcher and have him/her cut the ribs to your specifications. longer (at least six inches) is good. it makes a difference. Tue Apr 14 13:46:35 -0700 2009 4594721 10627 steve h. 2 4595706 Jfood has made both and the last batch were the boneless from Costco. When he used the boneless, he also added a couple of pounds of creminis that he turned into duxelle, so the richness of this ingredient was also a variable. The bones may give some delta of flavor but with all the other ingredients braising in the oven for multiple hours, jfood would be hard pressed on a blind taste test. And the level of the jelly that appears in theovernight cool-down was slightly less but it did not go from 1" to 1/4" in depth. And the length of the pieces were 4-5" and two pieces were more than enough per person. But to use the words inferior taste with the boneless would be an injustice. they were outstanding. Hope that helps Tue Apr 14 14:53:14 -0700 2009 4594721 11290 jfood 3 4595751 jfood, we have a dutch oven in the fridge filled with a chianti-braised batch of short ribs (bone in - it really does make a difference). that's for tomorrow. judy rodgers' zuni burgers tonight. complete with with the correct pickled veg. deb salted the chuck cubes last night and we'll cope with the new grinder. keep on cooking. Tue Apr 14 15:04:51 -0700 2009 4595706 10627 steve h. 4 4596066 po-tay-toe, po-tah-toe steve h. As long as it is all good it is all good. :-)) Tue Apr 14 16:38:03 -0700 2009 4595751 11290 jfood 5 4596096 still waiting to see if the lights go out after we plug in the new grinder. it's all good. Tue Apr 14 16:46:34 -0700 2009 4596066 10627 steve h. 6 4596140 jfood just had a brown out when he was plating the carbonara. was that the grinder? Tue Apr 14 16:59:18 -0700 2009 4596096 11290 jfood 7 4596157 it was so cool! yes, had to have been the grinder. Tue Apr 14 17:05:20 -0700 2009 4596140 10627 steve h. 8 4596322 follow up: burgers were good. pickled vegetables were of zuni quality. more work is needed on the burgers. not much, just a bit. deb's aioli was outstanding. the ciabatta bread i substituted for the zuni focaccia held up pretty well. i don't have an answer for the zuni fries. at the end of the day, judy would have been proud. Tue Apr 14 18:08:11 -0700 2009 4596157 10627 steve h. 9 4596429 s are these the recipes you and deb used? http://www.marthastewart.com/recipe/zuni-hamburgers TIA Tue Apr 14 18:47:33 -0700 2009 4596322 11290 jfood 10 4596460 jfood, cribbed them right out of the zuni cafe cookbook. pickles and all. zuni cafe is my home away from home. we even bake the zuni chicken at our little rental apartment in rome. judy rocks. Tue Apr 14 18:57:45 -0700 2009 4596429 10627 steve h. 1 4623038 The last hurray for now. I had enough j-ribs left for one more dinner for two. But yesterday I created some broken eggs. So I made a quiche for tonight with j-ribs, arugula, chives and cheese. Still have some sauce left, however. I was t;hinking about thinning with and having as soup. Waste not, want not. Thu Apr 23 14:46:29 -0700 2009 4484277 131001 c oliver 1 4626578 love the short ribs. took the leftovers tonight, cut the meat thin, placed it on a slice of good italian bread and topped it with some taleggio cheese. added a few zuni pickles then pan fried it up like a grilled cheese sandwich. a little fresh slaw on the side. be warned: a little of this goes a long way. Fri Apr 24 18:10:13 -0700 2009 4484277 10627 steve h. 2 4627391 glad you liked it steve. that leftover idea sounds great as well. jfood gonna try the zuni pickle recipe this weekend. Sat Apr 25 06:25:16 -0700 2009 4626578 11290 jfood 3 4628237 Is there a place or can someone paraphrase the zuni pickle recipe please? Sat Apr 25 13:56:26 -0700 2009 4627391 50431 chef chicklet 4 4628342 http://projects.eveningedge.com/recipes/zuni-cafe-zucchini-pickles/ just google zuni pckle and you get a few hits, a couple of blogs have pictures as well/ Sat Apr 25 15:00:09 -0700 2009 4628237 11290 jfood 4 4628343 There are a few different kinds of pickled vegetables in the Zuni cookbook, but I'll guess that steve h. is referring to the zucchini pickles. Recipe here: http://www.latimes.com/features/printedition/food/la-fo-calcookrec23c-2008jul23,0,287535.story Sat Apr 25 15:00:18 -0700 2009 4628237 11407 JoanN 5 4628389 howdy, the pickled red onions that judy rodgers serves at zuni work great with a short rib/taleggio grilled cheese sandwich. put them on top of the cheese before grilling. they cut through an otherwise heavy dish. half a sandwich is more than enough. a little slaw on the side and a cold beer would put a smile on any churl's face. the zuni cafe cookbook is one of our goto cookbooks. zuni cafe is one of our goto lunch/dinner spots in san francisco. Sat Apr 25 15:24:51 -0700 2009 4628343 10627 steve h. 6 4628399 I'm a huge fan of the Zuni pickled onions as well. Always have some in the fridge. Here's a link for red pickled onions: http://thechickendumpling.com/recipes/zuni-cafes-pickled-red-onions/ Sat Apr 25 15:32:19 -0700 2009 4628389 11407 JoanN 7 4628417 love the zucchini pickles, too. rodgers rocks. Sat Apr 25 15:43:52 -0700 2009 4628399 10627 steve h. 8 4630787 modest follow-up: deb has a new pro-grade waring meat grinder. she followed rodger's zuni burger recipe to a "t". the boneless chuck was cubed and salted on saturday and ground today. i had some ciabatta bread we used as rolls. zuni pickles were the sides (red onions from one jar, zucchini pickles from the other). perfect end to the second day of the nfl draft. we'll do this again. Sun Apr 26 17:46:12 -0700 2009 4628417 10627 steve h. 1 4655798 I made these over the weekend with the following substitutions: oyster and dried shiitake mushrooms instead of cremini; no celery, no beef stock (hey, it's what I had). And I cooked them in the crock pot, after browning them well. I did use some excellent bone-in local grass-fed ribs, though. Verdict: They couldn't have suffered too much from the subs; they were delicious, with flavor deep enough to dive into. From the high board. Really looking forward to lunch today, where the leftovers await me. Tue May 05 09:33:06 -0700 2009 4484277 98500 Bat Guano 1 4668513 They are in the oven right now driving me wild. Thank goodness we aren't eating at home tonight, they wouldn't make it until tomorrow. By the way, I agree that it's not a big deal to make these and judging by the smell, worth every bit of it. There's not much active time so if you just remember to place them in the marinade and pop them in the fridge for the next day you've got it knocked. Thanks for the recipe. I'll be off duty tomorrow and we'll have a great meal. Sat May 09 08:44:23 -0700 2009 4484277 127625 fern 2 4668580 Off duty from work and on duty for pleasure.... Happy Mother's Day and enjoy Sat May 09 09:14:54 -0700 2009 4668513 11290 jfood 3 4668768 Exactly! Thank you, Jfood! Sat May 09 10:33:21 -0700 2009 4668580 127625 fern 2 4669150 Yeah, it was a snap. My husband prepared the marinade and I handled the mushroom part. Popped it in the fridge before we went to bed. I DID have to have a little nibble on day two (hey, wouldn't want to poison anyone, right?). I think this is just about the richest dish I've ever eaten. Happy Mother's Day, Fern. Sat May 09 13:40:54 -0700 2009 4668513 131001 c oliver 3 4669781 Putting the family first, I did a safety check, too. Delicious. I cannot wait to spoon the sauce onto some smashed potatoes. I think everyone will love it. Happy Mother's Day to you, too! Sat May 09 18:48:54 -0700 2009 4669150 127625 fern 1 4670266 Thanks again to Jfood for the recipe. My new favorite. Happy Mothers day to all! Funny-I knew awhile back this would be the mothers day dinner. A beautifully rich dinner. Can't wait-I know how good it is. I do have to be careful not to make it so often and let it be a treat. Sun May 10 04:29:55 -0700 2009 4484277 96057 dklipscomb 1 4671447 Well now, this was delicious. Just delicious. My husband made mashed potatoes, I made slaw, son is cleaning the kitchen as I write. Had to let you know how much we all enjoyed this dish! The meat could not have been more tender, and that sauce! I can't think of anything served atop my mashed that I've enjoyed as much. Really, jfood, this was wonderful. I made 4 lbs and am going to freeze the leftovers before we get a chance to eat them up. So nice to know there's something in the freezer that is ready to go and GREAT. (plus, it gives me a chance to use the foodsaver. love that thing.) Many thanks for taking the time to write this all out. Looks like you've made many of us very happy, indeed! I am lying on the couch thinking "I can't believe I ate the whole thing." while being very glad that I did. ;) Hope you're having a lovely celebration at your house, too. Sun May 10 15:58:13 -0700 2009 4484277 127625 fern 2 4671496 jfood's pleasure. He just finished the dishes after a lovely time as well. Little jfood forgot the gazpacho and chocolates so off he goes on a delivery run. Sun May 10 16:18:37 -0700 2009 4671447 11290 jfood 1 4989585 Okay, I"ve been wanting to try these for months... waiting for cool weather. It's not cool, yet, but Publix has short ribs on sale for $2.99 lb this week. So, I think I'll try them! I have a question... Has anybody done the 2nd day (braise) is a slow cooker? I could wait until next weekend to do these, but thought maybe I could buy/marinate them tomorrow, braise in the slow cooker Monday, finish/eat them on Tuesday? Sat Aug 29 21:01:59 -0700 2009 4484277 14457 onrushpam 2 4989963 Sorry On Jfood does own a slow cooker so cannot give any advice. He did make a big batch last weekend that are now in the freezer waiting for the autumn moon to arrive. Sun Aug 30 06:52:26 -0700 2009 4989585 11290 jfood 2 4992585 I've done them in a slow cooker. See my substitutions above; they were delicious. Go for it! Mon Aug 31 09:05:07 -0700 2009 4989585 98500 Bat Guano 1 4992553 J, just bought some short ribs and with the weather getting so cold already, was planning to make your recipe for a family 'do next Labor Day weekend, as I need something I can prepare ahead. Question - is the sugar really necessary? 1/2 cup of sugar seems like a lot and we have a couple of family members who are diabetic (and would rather spend their sugar carbs on dessert - LOL!) If I left out the sugar, would the sauce suffer? Any ideas on how to sub? Could use Splenda, but is it really necessary? Thanks! Mon Aug 31 08:58:35 -0700 2009 4484277 15139 Diane in Bexley 2 4992714 Jfood really does not know the answer on how it will effect the end product. There are two aspects that he sees. The sugar may increase the browning of the meat since this will create a caramelization factor, and two it may balance the other flavors. Jfood is sure there are other braising recipes that have no sugar in them and they are probably fantastic. Would jfood recommend adding the sugar at the expense of a great dessert? nope...jfood always keeps room for dessert. Enjoy Mon Aug 31 09:38:58 -0700 2009 4992553 11290 jfood 3 4995210 J, will redeuced the sugar to 2 T instead of 8 (1/2 cup) and use a medium dry red wine. Wll let you know the results next week, thanks! Tue Sep 01 06:07:58 -0700 2009 4992714 15139 Diane in Bexley 1 5125315 Day 2 8. After several minutes, add remaining ingredients and bring to a boil Question: Does "add remaining ingredients" include the mushrooms from Day 1? If not, do the mushrooms get added during final prep on Day 3? Fri Oct 23 09:44:00 -0700 2009 4484277 13609 Scagnetti 2 5125685 Add them with step 8. Enjoy Fri Oct 23 11:51:19 -0700 2009 5125315 11290 jfood 3 5125701 2-4 lbs? That's a LOT of mushrooms no? Fri Oct 23 11:56:17 -0700 2009 5125685 13609 Scagnetti 4 5125754 jfood loves mushrooms and you will not believe how they reduce once you get the water out of them. Start with 2# and eye it in the sauce. While it is braising and you want more you can always do batch #2 and add while braising. It's a living recipe. The first three batches did not have mushrooms, then jfood bought a big bin at Costco and said to himself that they would be a nice addition. Fri Oct 23 12:12:53 -0700 2009 5125701 11290 jfood 5 5125843 2 lbs it is then. I've recently turned into a braising fool so this recipe is right in my wheelhouse. Fri Oct 23 12:44:11 -0700 2009 5125754 13609 Scagnetti 6 5126574 Timing is everything. :-)) Fri Oct 23 18:47:27 -0700 2009 5125843 11290 jfood 1 5126617 This sounds delicious, but I doubt that I can give it two days after the marinade. Have you tried it on the first night? I know, I know -- it's kind of like brisket and will taste better the second day. Fri Oct 23 19:14:27 -0700 2009 4484277 87837 RGC1982 2 5126635 There is an old saying... You cannot rush risotto, but people rush for risotto. It is good, but the second day is perfection on a plate. Fri Oct 23 19:23:44 -0700 2009 5126617 11290 jfood 2 5126685 I found that it was labor intensive enough that the timing allowed me to recover enough to enjoy it to its fullest. Fri Oct 23 19:57:50 -0700 2009 5126617 131001 c oliver 3 5126718 Labor intensive? You joke Ms C. You want labor intensive? Go for the Cannelonni. Fri Oct 23 20:22:55 -0700 2009 5126685 11290 jfood 4 5126739 I'm waiting for our first real snow. And alanbarnes and family to visit. Fri Oct 23 20:33:08 -0700 2009 5126718 131001 c oliver 1 5127115 What varieties of red wine work best with this? Sat Oct 24 06:15:27 -0700 2009 4484277 150662 white light 1 5157168 I've been wanting to try this recipe for a while now, and finally got my chance a few weekends ago. My thoughts: 1. I used the boneless ribs from Costco mentioned elsewhere in the thread. Definitely make this an inexpensive dish, though (while I am usually a big fan of Costco meats) I thought they came up a little short in the 'beefy' flavor department. Think I'll try bone-in next time (although the boneless were admittedly very easy to work with). 2. I didn't think the recipe is all that labor intensive. Time consuming sure, but most of that time is in the fridge. I used jfood's suggested marinate on Friday, cook on Saturday, skim fat and heat on Sunday routine, and it worked out just fine in terms of timing. Would be a particularly great schedule on a rainy weekend. I followed the recipe pretty much to the letter as written above. 3. Results? for me, it was good but not great. Mostly, it was waayyyy too sweet. I should have known that the amount of sugar would be much more than I would want. To be honest, I think it would be fine with no sugar, or perhaps just a tablespoon or so. The sweetness didn't stop us from enjoying it, but it did make the leftovers a little less appealing, at least to me (after a few bites I'd had enough sugar). I will say that hubby did like the ribs even though he isn't a huge beef fan. Don't get me wrong, I'd definitely make it again, but with modifications. (Less sugar, maybe more thyme, possibly some other herbs. Wed Nov 04 21:02:24 -0800 2009 4484277 10158 susancinsf 2 5157994 1/2 a cup to 12-14 short ribs plus all of the other ingredients does not sound like a ton to me? Is the recipe as is overly sweet? I want to make these within the next week. Thu Nov 05 08:35:52 -0800 2009 5157168 10283 Dax 3 5158401 obviously, YMMV, but yes, I thought half a cup was a ton for that many short ribs. I could taste the sugar as such. Of course, perhaps if the meat had been meatier it wouldn't have been as noticeable to me. Then again, I do not like much sweetness in my dishes. Thu Nov 05 10:38:55 -0800 2009 5157994 10158 susancinsf 4 5158459 Thanks for the feedback susaninsf and everyone makes modifications to recipes to suit their needs. jfood did as such when he developed this one so whatever works to make the people at the table smile, that is what it is all about. Glad you tried jfood's derivation and hoping a less sugary one meets the palate better next time. Likewise jfood did the ribs once with costco ribs and he prefers his butcher with the bone better as well. Thu Nov 05 10:58:45 -0800 2009 5158401 11290 jfood