What Did I Just Make?

[janetms383]

So, in a previous post I mentioned I got whole chickens at Fresh & Easy for 67 cents a pound. After roasting, I pulled the meat off the bones and made soup out of the carcass. I put the bones in a pot, added a whole onion, celery, carrot and garlic, boiled the lot., then strained and refridgerated the ????

Did I make Stock or Broth? What's the difference? The result is slightly gelatenous, if that makes any difference........

[chef chicklet]

Here you go janetms, these are photos taken before the raft, and right now it's resting the fridge. I'll scoop the fat (HEY! Can I save that and use it????) and then I'm deciding what I want to make with it. As you can see this made quite a bit of stock. It is darker than my normal broth that I make using the whole chicken. I am a complete believer now in cooking it as long as you can. Thanks to all that told me to keep cooking, and you know who you are! Later on I'l post the broth that I made after I made the raft (I'm curious to see if any visible difference today-not too noticebale yesterday, but then I didn't have my glasses on!)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7220939@...

I also want to remind you jm, I used a chicken carcass that had been previously roasted. There was a lovely brown skin on its back, threre was a tad bit of cooked breast meat, and one wing fully intact. There is a difference in color from when I make broth using a raw bird to start than this. Which is better? Both, I think it depends on what you're making.

[chef chicklet]

Hello did the raft and I think it did its job. I did not make mire poix though. I used two whipped egg whites and brought it to a boil. Interesting. when done with that...
I strained the stock once again in a fine sieve lined with a doubled piece of cheesecloth.
Tossed what was left in the pot into the garbage without any bad feelings - just bones all over, the chicken was unrecognizable now.
Placed the stock in large glass pirex measuring cup- the fridge to chill - and fat removal.
The flavor is nice, chickeney, very clean tasting. Nice
There is a lot to be said for making good stock...I was not cooking it long enough before

Posting photos tomorrow

[chef chicklet]

I'm on the third hour. I didn't add any salt, there was however some salt inside the chicken that I put there prior to roasting, and the back, I salted and peppered that too.
It is not as bland I'm going for another hour. The color is nice, not cloudy at all.
Interesting, I have never cooked a carcass this long, no wonder I'd been disappointed. There is a little fat, like oil floating and some particles. It will need straining through cheese cloth, I do that anyway. To clarify the clarify comment, should I make a raft of egg whites? Or what do you do?

[karykat]

This is like a stock-making reality show -- experiencing the stock making with you contemporaneously. Keep us updated.

[Sam Fujisaka]

A raft is good! Just beat those whites, spread evenly all over the surface of the stock - and - get this, gently poke holes in the raft with the shaft of a wooden spoon. Helps the process. Then strain.

[karykat]

I made a raft once when I was making some consumme with beef broth (or stock!) And I think it helped.

But one question. Should you stir the mixture first before you add the egg whites? Otherwise, if it's just put on top will it really be able to "reach" much of the impurities? It would seem like it might not, just sitting on top of an unstirred pot.

[chef chicklet]

I did, well actually I was helping by pouring the stock through the raft. I am so curious to see if this really helped. I was too tired to analyze last night! And it will look different once I reheat it. Was it worth it? I don't know.

[Sam Fujisaka]

No need to por the stock through the raft. Just spread it on the suface, poke the holes, and the low heat will make the stock continue to circulate, bringing impurities to stick onto the raft. When you spoon the raft off, the bottom should be brown with the gunky bits.

[chef chicklet]

I spread it out, but I was wanting to finish this project. I think it did its job, however the stock was pretty clean from the previous straining through cheese cloth. Didn't have too much brown gunky foam stuff, was surprised. I'll make this a step in making my stock, I've wanted to achieve a nice pure stock.

[ipsedixit]

Save yourself the trouble. Just refrigerate and the fat will congeal into a nice white layer which you can just lift right off the top of the broth.

[alwayscooking]

The raft will take out the impurities floating in the main body of the stock. If you've skimmed it at first and kept it at a bear simmer, it shouldn't be necessary. Lastly, rather than pouring into a seive, ladle out the liquid so as not to distrub the junk on the bottom of the pot.

[Sam Fujisaka]

Stock uses frames or carcasses, is long simmered and reduced, is almost like jello when cooled, and, in my case, is clarified. Uses are to make sauces, soups (with more liquid added), or even to make broth.

Broth usually has meat, does not necessarily have much collagen, can be consumed as is, is usually not clarified.

[chicgail]

Having figured out the difference in HOW TO MAKE stock vs. broth, what's the difference in how you USE them? I think of them as interchangeable, but it occurs to me that I might be missing something important (or yummy).

[billieboy]

The simplest explanation I have heard is that broth is used for things like soup whereas stock is used for cooking as in stir-fry sauce or gravies. I think they are interchangeable though. Just a matter of taste.

[janetms383]

While I think the stock has a deeper flavor, I use them interchangeably. If using canned broth, I will season more heavily.

[chef chicklet]

I wonder if it is just me. I can't make a decent stock broth or whatever you want to call it using a carcass from a previously roasted or cooked chicken. I know that I've done it in the past, but the last few times I have tried it, it was just bland water. I must of added boullion to it as well (Knorrs) which I am trying not to use anymore, because of the salt. I have to use fresh chicken for nice broth. Wings are really good for gelationus chicken flavor, and I'll either use wings or tips I've cut off and put in the freezer. And sometimes whole wings if I'm feeling rich.

[dmd_kc]

Oh, if your bones are already cooked, you need a TON more of them than if you start with whole parts, no question. Nothing strange about that.

Nothing's more variable than stock. Every single batch comes out different.

One tip I've really taken to heart from Tony Bourdain: I always peel my vegetables now, after years of not doing it. It makes all the difference in the world.

[chef chicklet]

thanks dmd kc, I have always peeled the veggies too, i don't why I started doing that.

[karykat]

I've never heard this peeling advice. Think I had gotten away from peeling. Do you think it exposes more of the more flavorful innards to the stock water?

[alwayscooking]

What difference does it make in your stock? I've never and my stock is fairly clear. I do rough dice the vegetables though.

[dmd_kc]

When you peel, you greatly -- I mean significantly -- reduce bitterness. I notice it especially with onions and garlic. I'd always put skins in -- no more. My stocks are much sweeter and cleaner now.

Though I did discover on Friday that a very rich stock isn't always the thing you want for every purpose. I made a simple, no-cream asparagus soup, and the chicken stock absolutely overwhelmed it. I'll do that one with vegetable stock in the future.

[janetms383]

I would never put the onion or garlic skins in my stock! I'm surprised that some people do!

[chef chicklet]

I've never tried it, I just have never thought about it. You really taste bitterness?

[Bat Guano]

I always put the skins in. The onion skins add color, and I'm too lazy to peel the garlic. Never noticed any bitterness.

[janetms383]

I'll get rotisseire chickens from the grocery store, eat the skin & the wings, then pull off the meat, and throw the bones in a pot with just enough water to cover, add whole onion, celery butt, gloves of garlic and S&P. Cook for about 2 hours, and viola! stock (as I now know it to be). Strain off the solids add the meat back in and whatever vegetable & starch I want. I call it Chicken Soup, but it's always muy deliciouso!!

[chef chicklet]

Thanks janet m, 2hours huh? Roasted chicken last night, the meat is almost gone. I will do the broth tomorrow, and I'll try your way, and will cook it longer. I've never cooked a carcass or a fresh bird for making stock longer than an hour and some.

[ipsedixit]

I usu. go for at least 4 hours when making stock.

Also, add some vinegar or lemon juice when you first start. It helps dissolve the collagen and marrow.

[chef chicklet]

thanks, appreciate the tips! I don' t wnat to toss it.

[ipsedixit]

Don't stir. Let it simmer, uncovered for at least 4 hours.

Refrigerate. Remove white layer of fat (for deep frying or scrambled eggs) and you'll be left with a translucent jell-o like liquid that's going to taste like nectar for the gods.

[chef chicklet]

I'm on the 2nd hour right now added celery and onion. Still pretty bland tasting. I added the gelatin stuff to the pot. There was meat still on the breast bone, the back still with skin and meat, and the one wing attached. I would think I'll get some decent flavor out of this bird...

[alwayscooking]

6-8 hours for me - I like to get it gelantanous. The stock will reduce and concentrate the flavors - although it would be as reich as starting with unroasted bones. Don't use salt until you are ready to use the stock.

[paulj]

It is still going to be bland if you don't add salt.

[dmd_kc]

Generally, we call stuff made with bones and trimmings stock. Broth is generally made with cuts of meat. This Chow link is the best answer:

http://www.chow.com/stories/10604

You made stock. But anyone who gives you a hard time about it is just being pedantic, I think.

[chicgail]

Stock.

According to Wiki:
While they're both the liquid results of boiling animal parts, stock tends to be made with bones and inedible bits, while broth is made by boiling meat. Both can contain vegetation as well, with whole vegetables like celery and onions more common in stock, and simple herbs more common in broth. Stock is often richer in mouth feel because longer cooking time renders more of the connective tissue into gelatin. It should also set up like a tasty meat jell-o in the fridge for the same reason.

[todao]

What she said ...

[janetms383]

So, if I get a chuck roast, cut it into cubes, and add water and whatever, that's just broth?

[todao]

Yes. Are we seeking an answer here or an argument?

[janetms383]

just clarification, no arguments here!

[chef chicklet]

I don't think you'd get beef broth doing that jm. I think if you want beef broth, it's a bit harder to make. Get some good rib bones, roast and brown them then use them in the water.

[janetms383]

hmmm well chef, read up the thread, sound like the addition of bones is stock..... of course I don't want Toado to think I'm arguing.... !!!

[chef chicklet]

I knew that! I had to laugh!