(Not about) Food words I'd like to never see again.

[adamshoe]

Maybe I'm grumpy tonight (or every night...), but there are are some words that I am so-o over.
The top of the list would be "Artisanal", closely followed by "Authentic". Next would be "Mixologist" (in relation to all the "artisanal" cocktail revolution going on...). Any words or phrases out there that particularly cheese you off? adam

[k_d]

Do you think my posting on this thread will get all resto reviewers to stop saying "shatteringly crisp"? I think Ima go for it anyway. PLEASE stop saying Shatteringly Crisp. For one, I don't believe you. For two, c'mon. Drama, anyone? ARRRGH. And I just read it AGAIN in a Sam Sifton review. Stop!

[small h]

Good gravy, I came across that myself this evening and had a quiet little conniption. Second only to my head-desk when Adam Platt referred to two different soups, from two different restaurants, as "properly steamy." In the same f*cking article. Elsewhere (in the same f*cking article, and okay, it was a long article, but still) he called various foods "properly tangy," "properly melting," "properly local and seasonal," and "properly charred." How many words are there in the English language? Four? Oh, the propriety.

http://nymag.com/print/?/restaurants/...

[Pincus]

Yuck. I would be expecting lacerations in my mouth after reading a description like that.

[Pincus]

All good. I'll just add "smashed" potatoes.

[JeremyEG]

I've seen that less lately. Doesn't that mean 'less mashed' than creamier mashed potatoes though? Maybe not.
JeremyEG
HomeCookLocavore.com

[Pincus]

I think it means, "We are cutesy-woo, please buy our food", but your definition could be valid too.

[JeremyEG]

I use it to describe mashed potatoes I make at home when I can't find the masher and have to do it roughly with a fork. I think you're right that it can go either way!
JeremyEG
HomeCookLocavore.com

[Pincus]

Well, at home, you can describe things any way you like. As long as your spouse approves. :)

[JeremyEG]

Yes, she approves but doesn't really care what I call the dishes. As long as they're good.
JeremyEG
HomeCookLocavore.com

[al b. darned]

I seem to be the only one sick and tired of "new and improved." First of all, it can't be "new" AND "improved." It is either one or the other. And more often than not it merely means, "The same old crap in as new box." And that new box has less in it than the old one.

It also annoys me when a company comes out with a new product in three delicious flavors, one of which is "Original."

[JeremyEG]

I can't stand menus that use the words 'the chef's special sauce' or 'the chef's special rub.' I assume all the dishes were created by the chef. Who created the other items on the menu? : )

Authentic means lots of different things. I'd rather know where the food came from and make my own decision as to whether or not it's local.

I'm happy to have a well-made cocktail whether the person making it calls him or herself a bartender or a mixologist.

This thread is fun!
JeremyEG
HomeCookLocavore.com

[im_nomad]

Artisanal. I have seen "artisanal-style" bread in stores, and heard it on an Olive Garden commercial the other day.

[cigarmedic4]

"Respect". Animals I eat aren't likely to run for President, win a Nobel Prize or cure cancer. They are raised for one reason, and one reason only: To GET IN MY BELLY. While I don't believe in wasting any, its simply because I pay good money for the meat, not because the cow is a great thinker. Stop anthropomorphizing meat!

[Nicolette S]

Yummy. Not sure why it bothers me, but it does. The insult added to that injury is that I have a close friend who says it often and I seem to be picking it up! NOOOOO!

[alkapal]

so... what is your beef exactly? not sure from the placement of the post......

[pine time]

Will duck under the table after I send this one: "What do you recommend?" Waiter: the shrimp scami. I'm allergic. Waiter: the mussels. Hate 'em.
I can see asking about freshness, specialities of the house, but not what somebody else recommends based on either (a) what they have too much of in the kitchen, or (2) the waiter's taste buds. Ducking now!

[Nicolette S]

"so... what is your beef exactly? not sure from the placement of the post...... re: Nicolette S
By alkapal on Feb 18, 2011 01:28PM "

alkapal, I'm not sure what you mean, but I replied to the OP and stated that I do not like the word "yummy".

[alkapal]

you're right.

[greygarious]

Yummy sounds infantile...I picture a parent trying to coax a drooling baby to accept a spoonful of pureed peas. When we got our first dog, Lolli-pups and Dog Yummies were sold in the grocery store so 50 yrs later "yummy" is still the word I use when calling the dogs for a treat....but that's the ONLY time the word escapes my lips!

[Dagney]

Fusion. Die Die DIE, Fusion. as in, "it's a fushion of asian and mexican....it's a fusion of flavors....it's a fusion of cultures...." All cooking is fusion you smart-assed cooking school grad.

[sueatmo]

Yum! Sorry, I don't like that as a written exclamation or as an adjective. Don't care for yummy either. But the 2 words that drive me crazy are "Old World," as in "old world excellence" or "old world techniques." Just what does that mean, and why, as a new world kind of person, do I care? And it is applied to everything! Furniture, food, recipes, leather, decor items.

Trite, trite, meaningless.

[BobB]

Mixologist may sound trendy, but it actually has quite a history to it. I have a book privately published in 1926 (the height of Prohibition!) entitled "Life and Letters of Henry William Thomas, Mixologist" about a fabled Washington DC bartender from pre-Prohibition times.

[taos]

When it comes to describing food, I don't want to hear anything about how wonderful it might taste. So no yummy, tasty, delicious, delectable, heavenly or luscious. And especially, I don't want to hear you abbreviate those words into yum, delish, or lush.

I will form my own opinion about whether a piece of food is delish or crap.

Oh, and molecular gastronomy can take a hike as well. Last I checked all food was made up of molecules. Don't make it, or you, more important than it is.

[alkapal]

>>>>""""When it comes to describing food, I don't want to hear anything about how wonderful it might taste. So no yummy, tasty, delicious, delectable, heavenly or luscious...""""<<<<

gee, taos, remind me not to talk to you at a cocktail party where we might discuss food.

[c oliver]

The way I read that is that all it tells us is that the person liked the food. And that's good. But it doesn't tell us why. And I think that's why a really good restaurant reviewer or food writer doesnt' come along every day. There are SO many people here on CH who will post about a place but it's the rare one, IMO, who is capable of describing what it is that made a dish stand out. But I still want those adjectives!

[adamshoe]

May I also add "bar chef" as in "artisanal" and "locavore" cocktail makers. Please just call them bartenders. adam

[Samalicious]

Has anyone living actually said the word "foodstuffs" out loud in their entire life?
No, you haven't.

[pikawicca]

"molecular gastronomy" makes me gag.

[rednyellow]

"Hand Made" annoys me. I doubt they used their feet. "Deconstructed" is an instant turn off.

[Das Ubergeek]

I'm with you on "deconstructed" -- it sounds like they built one of those phallic towers of food with tuna cans that fell over -- but "handmade" has its place. I made handmade soufflés last night, meaning that I did not use any machines (other than the range/oven) -- I separated the eggs by hand and whipped the whites by hand. There's not really another way to describe it, and if you are trying to differentiate (handmade pasta, for example, is very different to machine-made pasta) you do need the word.

[thew]

deconstructed doesn't botehr me,a s it actually describes what is going on with a dish. for instance sometimes i make gnocchi with basil pine nuts olive oil and cheese. if i say it is served with a deconstructed pesto you know exactly what i mean, and what inspired the dish.

[rednyellow]

OMG! you reminded me, I HATE towers. Always end up being some silly, fussy thing that tips over when you touch it with a fork. DONT STACK MY FOOD!

[Bill Hunt]

OK, it's time to put this thread to bed. I am running out of words to describe the food in my reviews!

Nah, good thread, and entertaining (plus enlightening) to boot. Keep it up, I'll find some new words someplace else.

Hunt

[cuccubear]

“Tuscan”

Everything is “Tuscan”...Tuscan artisan bread, Tuscan herbs, Tuscan chicken, flavored like the bounty of Tuscany, blah, blah, blah...

I think what “cheeses” me off the most about these words we’re talking about is that once upon a time they had real meaning. They _meant_ what they mean.

Unique begets Trendy begets Commercial begets Dreck...It happens all the time.

[LindaWhit]

Trendy. There's another one. <vbg>

[cuccubear]

heehee

Just goes to show that words get so ingrained in our everyday vocab, we don't even realize we're using them. Like, you know?

[LindaWhit]

Oooh - my mother HATES the "like, you know..." phrase. And unfortunately, despite being a half century old, I've picked it up and use it occasionally in my speaking voice. Arrrrgggghhhh.... I consciously have to try and remember NOT to say it.

[cdnexpat]

I've often thought about terrible writing about art, and thought collecting a compendium would make a great coffee table book.

Now I'm wondering the same thing about the purple prose in food writing! Especially given that most cookbooks tend to be giant, hard-cover photo catalogues destined for coffee tables anyway. Anyone with me on this?

[cuccubear]

Some of my favorite food books aren't cook books. They don't have pictures at all. I like reading about food and don't necessarily need recipes.

[cdnexpat]

Then I take it you would be a customer of the "The Best(worst) Purple Prose in Food Writing" book?

Re: cookbooks, I was making a gross generalization. No insult intended to anyone who loves (or doesn't) cookbooks with/without photographs and/or attendant recipes.

[Anonimo]

"Grilled to perfection".

[Orchid64]

I agree about "mouth feel" when applied to food (rather than wine, which is where the term originated). It's just a pretentious way of saying "texture".

I also am tired of "umami" instead of "meaty" or "savory" or any use of a Japanese word where there is a perfectly adequate English word. I think people are mainly using such words as a means of excluding less "in the know" people or trying to show off.

[thew]

orchid -

i don't quite agree with either of those. mouthfeel is a subset of texture. umami is a specific taste, chemically, with it's own set of taste buds, and a cortical map, just like sweet or salty. It is now the accepted word for that 5th taste. savory is a much more general word, as is meaty.

[RGC1982]

I am so in favor of voting for "mouth feel" -- except that "brighten
or "bright" when used to explain why you want to add fresh herbs to a dish at the end of cooking bothers me more. How in heaven's name can you BRIGHTEN a taste?

[adamshoe]

RGC: you 'Brighten" a taste by "kicking it up a notch" ;) adam

[cuccubear]

BAM! Let's "Turn up the volume on this pork..."

[Bill Hunt]

I'm not so keen on banning "mouthfeel." It works in place of "texture" in a lot of wine reviews, and can be instrumental in wine-food pairings. Let's let the winos keep this one, please.

Now for many of the others - "off with their heads!"

Hunt

[alkapal]

bake "off"
sauté "off"
sear "off"
anything "off" -- except maybe "rinse off."

[Bill Hunt]

Uh-oh, I am now in trouble. We used to get a group of about eight total and would do the "Great American Wok-off," with 4 flaming woks, and the guys (the male members of the group to clarify) doing the slicing, the dicing and egg-roll wrapping.

Gotta' mend my ways,

Hunt

[alkapal]

bill hunt, now if you invite me, i can *overlook* the "off" aspect of "wok-off." plus, my objection is when the "off" is used simply as an unnecessary addition to the preceding verb, whereas *your* "off" usage is descriptive, as denoting a contest. like the "pillsbury bake-off"

so....when's the next wok-off? ;-).

[Scargod]

I was always taught that the most important part of the process was how you got "off".

[kattyeyes]

"Brekkie" or "breffus" for breakfast. I've never seen "breffus" written, but I sure have heard it spoken. UGH!

[adamshoe]

I am guilty of saying "breffus", but not in mixed company; only between me and the SO. It's because the town across the river from where I grew up, New Brunswick NJ, was often referred to by many African Americans (as well as white peeps) as New Brunfus or New Brumswit, or just Brunfus, so Breffus was just a logical extension of said pronunciation. BTW, Mario Batali used to make strombolis @ Stuff yer Face in either New or North Brunfus (somewhere on rt. 18....) before he was super-Mario. adam

[Passadumkeg]

Go Zebras!

[Das Ubergeek]

I grew up in Woodbridge and we used to call the county seat "New Breakfast" -- well, that was the politest thing we called it anyway.

[Passadumkeg]

New Bungus in my youth.

Bon Jovi and I are Sayreville Boys

We enjoy eating on Main St. Woodbridge & South River and Latin food in "Pert" when we visit. Fords Ave. and Highland Park too. Lots of chowhounding when we visit.

[adamshoe]

'Break down the protein" Great Punk Band name!! On a double bill appearing with "rage against the machine" ;) adam

[alkapal]

"break down the protein" -- tom petty, chef

[Das Ubergeek]

Gonna break down
All of my protein
Gonna put it
Back in the fridge
Since the commis
Is back on a smoke break
I've got to
Chop my own mise
And I'm free... free Gaulin'.

[LindaWhit]

O. M. G. That's brilliant! LOL

[lergnom]

I don't like jargon that's more complicated than the original. As in "break down the protein" for cut up or butcher the fish, chicken, pork, beef. Some jargon makes sense as in "plating," which succinctly describes the act of putting food on a plate.

[goodhealthgourmet]

i'm with you on "break down the protein," it's unnecessarily pretentious.

[revsharkie]

I'm sure someone has already mentioned this...

housemade.

I get it. Some lawyer somewhere said, "You can't say 'homemade,' because it was made in the restaurant kitchen, not someone's home." Whatever. Come up with a new term.

[adamshoe]

Oh, rev, I think you're the first to mention this. Someone referred to "home made", but, here in CA you cant call it that in a restaurant. adam

[LicketySplit]

Housemade. Yeah, that one gets to me, too.

Not knowing much about what goes on in restaurant culture (other than me stuffing the ol' pie hole), I wasn't aware of the expressions "front of the house" and "back of the house" until very recently. So the "housemade" thing puzzled me.

Now that I know a little better, I get it, but it still sounds not-right to my ear.

What would be a better term? There's gotta be one, but I'm drawing a blank.

[coll]

Made on premises? Not catchy, but not obnoxious. Or, Made by Our World Famous Chef ;-)

[goodhealthgourmet]

the homemade/house-made discussion reminded me of another one...

homestyle.

what the heck is that supposed to mean?

[alkapal]

oh ghg, don't ya know it means made with *extra* lovin' care?!

....unless, of course, you're from a dysfunctional household, and then it means "thrown together from a couple of cans and put on the stove for a few minutes before being slopped on a cold plate."

either way, "it's mmm-mmmm good!" http://www.dept56retirees.com/images/sv/mmmmgood.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2373/2...
;-).

[revsharkie]

"put on the stove"? Nah. If it's a really dysfunctional household, no one knows how to turn on the stove. Put it in the microwave.

[LicketySplit]

"Made by Our World Famous Chef"

Oh, you--!

Or: Cooked to Perfection by Our World Famous Chef. ;-p

(I love this goofy thread.)

[billieboy]

"(I love this goofy thread.)"

Me too. It is fun.

I was going to mention Homestyle as substitute for Home Cooking, but it is not original by any means. There must be thousands of places called "Homestyle Restaurant" and every one I have ever been in is a greasy spoon...:-)

[LicketySplit]

Yummy.
Tummy.

And, the absolute skull-clutcher:

Nummy.

[goodhealthgourmet]

don't forget scrummy. aaarrrgh!

[LicketySplit]

Ooh, you did NOT go there! Aaargh, is right. Scrummy takes the cake.

I also flinch at:

Scrumptious.
Luscious.

Those words just sound so...slobbery. Or like someone talking with their mouth full.

And speaking of slobber:

someone "drooling" over a recipe description, or a food photo. Eww!

This thread is great for Monday morning crabbiness.

[thew]

ethnic and authentic.

but y'all knew i was going to say that anyway

[adamshoe]

oooh....good ones. But, you can't spell "authentic" without e, t,h,n,i & c!! ;) adam

[thew]

cant spell authentic w/out tuna itch

or hi, eat c**t, but that's a different sort of internet site

[adamshoe]

Tuna itch! I love it.. Might have to be my new screen name. Just have to come up with a great avatar.... adam

[chicaraleigh]

If someone entered this already, I apologize for the duplication but last night I heard a commercial touting McD's biscuits - the term they used was "scratch made". I don't know why but it just struck me as being wrong - especially for anything coming from a fast food chain....

Oh, and another one I hate seeing is "better than Mom's"

[LindaWhit]

"scratch made"???? That doesn't even make sense!

[chicaraleigh]

i didn't think so either...."scratch" to me denotes some something bad - as in "chicken scratch"

obviously a take on "made from scratch" but that has never really sounded very appealing to me either...

[coll]

Maybe they scratch themselves while making it?

[kattyeyes]

Euuuw--scratch that! ;)

[c oliver]

My family (in Atlanta) used the term "scratch biscuits."

[alkapal]

"scratch biscuits" i knew from my southern side of the family, for sure. but, really, we just called them biscuits.

here is the origin of the idiom "start from scratch" : http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/st...

[billieboy]

I heard another one just this morning. Oooey Gooey as applied to a dessert. Reminds me of something I stepped in once.

[goodhealthgourmet]

doesn't Paula Deen have some "Ooey Gooey" recipes? i'm sure her fan base is sufficiently large to perpetuate the use of that term.

[alkapal]

gooey butter cake.

[kattyeyes]

"Large enough"--right, think about that on a couple of levels with all the butter in her recipes! ;) Both "large" and "wide" come to mind on more than one level here.

[Scargod]

I'm man enough and large enough for any of her recipes! Let's get good and ooey gooey! I'm ready to cook! Director, where's the recipe? Makeup!.....

[danhole]

Oooey Gooey remind me of a baby with a bad cold, or a baby with a messy diaper! Not something I want in a dessert, either way!

[Doreen]

I am so tired of "rustic" being used in a cutsy fashion. What they really mean is "home cooking"

[alkapal]

here is the new, emerging ethos for menus:
"meat, cooked" or better... simply: "protein"
or "animal, vegetable, mineral."

here is the vanguard in reviewing:
"the restaurant served food. i ate it. some food i liked. some food i did not like."

~~~~~~~
i think the endless listing of ingredients and techniques on a menu arose in direct proportion to *certain* diners asking about all the particulars of a dish. i mean, aren't most of us food lovers just a wee bit "picky"? ("is that shrimp tailed or not?")

[512window]

Sourced
Pretentious, imprecise, and bad grammar! Take a perfectly good noun (source) and verb it, when you really mean to say: from a local source.

[adamshoe]

512w, You mean locally sourced, seasonal, sustainable, humane, and delish?
Dont'cha? adam

[braniganlee]

Panko (followed by explanation)

[512window]

Gosh. I probably do. And if some people need to know that about their broccoli, yippee for them. I don't. I don't care if my broccoli was inhumanely raised. I don't know how to verify that it was sustainably raised. I can certainly tell for myself whether it's seasonal. I'd prefer to hear that it's from a farm in Salinas, than that it's "locally sourced."

And you're just baiting me with that delish stuff!

[Scargod]

You forgot "organically grown". How do we know this and what is the criteria? I'm so used to chemicals....

[kattyeyes]

My mom questions this constantly and fairly vocally, too, I might add. She is here and adds, "Organically grown on land that I know used pesticides/insecticides for how many years?!!! Gimme a break!"

[applehome]

We're from the government, we're here to help you:

http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/ams.f...

There is an agency. There is a certification process. But I suppose that's about as comforting as knowing that the SEC regulated the sales of derivatives. If the USDA's National Organic Program does half as good a job, we're probably eating poison as we speak.

[Scrambletron]

Molecular gastronomy, it sounds pedantic and arrogant.

[applehome]

Everybody says they hate that term - especially the practitioners. But what's the alternative?

Herve This used it as the title to his book, but the book had little to do with the food style. It was indeed about food science, written by a scientist, who wrote about carefully done and recorded scientific experiments and results, proving or disproving cooking folklore. The title fit. But it doesn't fit the modern cuisine of gelees, foams, etcetc...

[Sam Fujisaka]

"Grill master". of course, as a scuba diver I also hate "Dive master".

[danhole]

"Grill Master." Now is that the new term for the short order cook that fries up your eggs and bacon at the greasy diner? Around these parts we are run amuck with Pit Masters, but some of them actually deserve the honor.

[Gio]

Hi Danhole..... I'm really not fallowing you around but....
I believe Grill Master refers to a person who is an expert in BBQ grilling.

[danhole]

Oh Gio, I know that. I was being tongue in cheek!

Dani

[Sam Fujisaka]

Yes, "arm pit master baiter". One and the same.

[danhole]

I briefly dated an obnoxious rich guy who I nicknamed the Master Baiter. Arm pit is a nice addition to that noble title.

And to keep this on board with food related items, in college in a small East Tx towm there was a restaurant named the Pit Grill which we affectionaly called the Arm Pit Grill. If you had eaten there 30+ years ago you would know why.

[CocoaNut]

Would that possibly have been Nacogdoches?

[danhole]

Close. Jacksonville.

[Veggo]

Sam I don't object to my dive master or dive instructor certifications; it was a lot of work. I do object to being partnered with a beginner diver when I'm paying like everyone else, and I'm expected to waste my dive with a fledgling who can't descend, because I'm a dive master.
For years now, I just use my original open-water PADI C- card where I'm not known, and go my own way.

[Sam Fujisaka]

Veggo, yo kins be my massa anytime. When I started diving there was no such thing. My buddy and I used to drive up 101 and look down at the kelp beds and say, "That looks good" trudge the gear down and go diving. Merica aint like that anymo.

[c oliver]

And probably picked up a few abalone along the way?

[Passadumkeg]

Ditto, just rented at a dive shop w/ no instruction, no certification. Wonder I'm still here in many ways. Last dove in the Baltic near Helsinki. Lost of WWII stuff. Funny , Finnish wet suit no longer zips over stomach. It musta shrunk.

McDonald's commercials.

[JungMann]

The word organic has lost all meaning. It has has far more attributed to it by consumers than is realistic. It's a Harry Potter spell which rids produce of carcinogens, carbon footprints and institutional racism and instead imbues it with a health-enhancing dose of self-righteousness.

Moreover "Top Chef" and Gordon Ramsey have done severe disservice to the word "inedible." Little too much salt? Inedible! Medium instead of medium-rare? Inedible! There are now a nation of aspiring reviewers who establish their cred by declaring half of the nation's foodstuffs inedible, or if they deign to eat something delicious, it is automatically "sinful."

There is a New York-based blog that I came across a bit ago, whose writing not only adopts the worst of these overused clichés, but adds its own, while flaunting its publication in a major newspaper. Among the more aggravating words/malapropisms:
"mated" - as in "the porkiness of the sausage mated with the sticky syrup"
"velvety" - as in "my juicy burger meat was velvety"
"morsel" - (ab)used for everything from gougères to sub sandwiches
false populism - affected slang/affixes like 'za or spag don't make for cute or intelligible writing.

[Das Ubergeek]

"the porkiness of the sausage mated with the sticky syrup"

Does anyone else hear Inigo Montoya here? "I do not think that word means what you think it means."

[billieboy]

The true meaning of food porn. :-)

[JungMann]

You don't even know how much. In the context of the latest review, one of the elements of the dishes was "topping" the other before they "mated."

[LicketySplit]

Ah ha ha ha. So bad, it's almost good. Mated...shudder.

Speaking of "topping":

I blush a little whenever I see the menu option to order a burrito with a "wet topping"...eek.

I am guilty of asking for my coffee with "just a kiss" of cream, though.

[GodfatherofLunch]

Blush? Are you forgetting your handle is LicketySplit? I'm just sayin

[LicketySplit]

Who, me? ::: innocent face :::

The menu at the local sushi place features something called a "French Kiss Roll". Eel and some other slithery ingredients. I ain't tongue-kissing no freshwater eel, mister! Eww.

[GodfatherofLunch]

Your best bet is to leave that to the pros -- :)

[thew]

sea eel more your type?

(would that be an anagophile?)

[goodhealthgourmet]

my name is Inigo Montoya. you kill my language. prepare to die ;)

those lines JungMann quoted can only be attributed to one person - it must be Danyelle Freeman (aka "Restaurant Girl"). she's awful.

[kattyeyes]

Hey, ghg! I knew "Restaurant Girl" had to be really bad as I've read references about her writing, um, "style" more than once here on CH. So, I googled and found this. I had to see just how bad it gets. The guy who wrote this article would have had a ball with this thread!
http://gawker.com/news/restaurant-hur...

[JungMann]

Wow, that is absolutely horrendous writing. But it could be worse and that's the wrong tabloid.

[goodhealthgourmet]

i remember reading that Gawker piece a while back. she's definitely not winning a Pulitzer anytime soon.

[cayjohan]

DU: thanks for the Inigo reference. Priceless. :-)

Perhaps the next food review word should be "inconceivable!" (Lisp while you say t folks...)

Cay

[LindaWhit]

Brilliant, Das. <vbg>

[sfumato]

Mr. sfumato hates this because in reality, practically everything we can eat is organic, as in "relating or belonging to the class of chemical compounds having a carbon basis."

[billieboy]

Just wanted to take a minute to thank you, Adam, for starting this thread. It has been fun and has given me and, I am sure, quite a few others a few good giggles.
Nice to lighten up once in awhile.

[alkapal]

man, y'all *are* the grumpylicious crowd.

now, everyone will be afraid to write any review of a restaurant, or describe a food lest they be mocked.

now... go drink your "happy" KOOL-AID and call me in the morning. ;-). if you cheer up, i'm sure there's money for you somewhere in the new budget's pork (oops, can i say "pork" when it is only "swine-like"?).

[Samalicious]

No worries baby, today for lunch I will enjoy my freshly-cut turkey and cheese featuring two nice slices of home-made oven-baked artisinal bread made delish and healthy with lots and lots of garden-fresh veggies and maybe some cooked-to-perfection locally fried potato chips ...followed by a decadent oatmeal cookie and a piece of seasonal fruit. OMG I just made my own skin crawl. ;)

[Passadumkeg]

Rachael Raye anything! Raw ! Raw! Raw!

[cayjohan]

Okay, here's one for grumpiness: Since when did we stop calling it a "wine list" in review references and start pontificating on a "wine program?"

Feel creepy to me to have to deal with a "wine program." Makes me feel as if I shouldn't partake.

Cay

[adamshoe]

How'z about "wine Director"? What do they, call out "CUT!" ,if a wine isn't performing up to standards? adam

[cayjohan]

Zactly. Cay

[kattyeyes]

"I had to lay off the wine program and join a 12-step program." Like you, Cay, makes me feel as though I shouldn't partake, either! "CUT!" indeed. Merlot? You're outta there. ;)

[MakingSense]

"Fresh frozen."
What can I say?

[billieboy]

Good one!!! I will remember that one. Classic oxymoron.

[billieboy]

Have you ever seen a package of whatever that says "fresh, never frozen" and when you pick it up out of the display case, it's frozen hard!!! That might be a new thread.

[Boccone Dolce]

YES! I laugh every time. Never frozen, up until.......now!

[sfumato]

I would like to see "stale frozen," personally. HAH!

[toodie jane]

my pet peeve is Scones, when used for baked goods sweeter than many cookies.

Also, Trifle for any combo of ingredients layered in a clear serving dish.

I sheepishly admit to using when writing here:
napped
unctuous
artisanal
mouthfeel

I will now enter a 12-step program; after I finish my veggies, though. I've been selling them for 35 years and can't get my tongue to wrap around vegetables fifty times a day. Sorry. Too many syllables. (That's'sil-AH bulls)

[Glencora]

I kind of like "napped."

[billieboy]

Not to be confused with nappy.

[kattyeyes]

Right--neither the adjective applied to one's hair nor the noun that would be used in a Ray-Rayesque form ("Finished my sammie and stoup, gonna take a nappy!"). ;) Your contributions to this thread continue to crack me up!

[cdnexpat]

Or the English homophone: Nappie (i.e. diaper).

[danhole]

What does "napped" mean?

[Gio]

From the On Line Dictionary:

"nap 3 (np)
tr.v. napped, nap·ping, naps
To pour or put a sauce or gravy over (a cooked dish): "a stuffed veal chop napped with an elegant Port sauce" Jay Jacobs."

[danhole]

I suppose if I had read that on a menu I could have figured it out in context, but as of yet, that is a term I haven't seen. Thanks Gio.

[Anonimo]

Yes! Jay Jacobs was a big user of "napped" in his resto ;-) reviews in Gourmet Magazine.

[kattyeyes]

Another one that just sounds wrong: SUCCULENT. We were watching a cooking show one day and the host kept saying how SUCCULENT it (whatever "it" was) was. Maybe it's that "suck" is the first syllable and just sounds inherently wrong. Maybe it's too close to "succubus" for me. Whatever the case, I'd be happy if I never heard or saw this word again. I just think it kind of, well, sucks. ;)

[smartie]

can't stand 'freshly cut sandwiches' . What does that mean for goodness sake!! the sandwiches are stale but they were freshly cut?

In England the milk bottles say 'Doorstep Fresh' which is also a stupid slogan.

the other one that bugs me, boxes of 'vegetarian eggs'. When did an egg become a vegetarian????? Was it ever a carnivore?

[applehome]

Do they still deliver milk to the house in the UK as they used to here? If so, Doorstep Fresh may still have meaning. It does bring memories of the glass jars in the metal carriers, with paper tops and cream floating on top. But it would have no meaning to my kids.

[kattyeyes]

Hey, applehome! I remember the metal milk boxes, though I don't recall why there was still one on the back porch when we never had milk delivery (I was born in the late 60s)...but I do remember the milk boxes. They didn't appear to be refrigerated, though..so on a warm day, just how "Doorstop Fresh" could it have been? ;) Or did they put a block of ice in the box when they made the delivery?

On a sidebar, here in CT, we used to be able to get creamline milk in the 90s from a place that also made ice cream. There was nothing like it! I don't think they sell it anymore, though. I remember growing up thinking it would have been cool if there really was a milkman that still delivered.

[lynnlato]

Wow, that's a blast from the past. I had completely forgotten about those metal milk boxes on the porch. I also remember the taller, decorative milk canisters that were painted and detailed w/ flowers. Whoa.

FYI, we have a milk man here in Charlotte NC. It's extremely expensive but it's fresh off the dairy farm.

[GodfatherofLunch]

I grew up in Brooklyn NY and I remember the Seltzer man. He would deliver a case of those cool squirt bottles with the lever and pick up the case of empties.

[thew]

yea- we used to get those - blue siphon bottles. and a few sodas. havent been able to make a good egg cream at home since those stopped

[coll]

They're still around, at least in Brooklyn, last I heard.

[GodfatherofLunch]

Now I am in Charlotte, North Carolina. No siphon seltzer bottles around here.
Luckily Katz NY deli here in Charlotte has Fox's-U-Bet syrup.
As any egg cream maven knows THAT is the one ingredient you MUST have for a good egg cream.

[coll]

I always have chocolate, vanilla, malt and another brand of coffee on hand for when a craving hits. So I have to make it with Canada Dry seltzer, what can I do? As long as it's a new bottle. It's the first thing I order at a diner for sure.

[GodfatherofLunch]

"Chocolate, vanilla, malt and another brand of coffee" ?????????
I know about chocolate and even vanilla egg creams, but what the heck is malt and coffee all about? Not an egg cream I hope. If you are referring to malt powder, that would be for a malted not an egg cream. Coffee, I have no clue what this is about.

[coll]

U Bet malt syrup and Coffee Time coffee syrup. Traditionally used in milk shakes but I like to think outside the box. Really good mixed with chocolate.

Malted powder I would use for waffles myself.

[GodfatherofLunch]

I respect outside the box thinking. I'm game to try any shake you invent.
On behalf of all the fellas from Brooklyn let me say
Don't mess wit da friggin Egg Cream, ya hear me?

[coll]

Only in the privacy of my own home!

[kattyeyes]

Hey, coll...apparently you are not alone. Check out what they do in Rhode Island:
http://littlecomptonmornings.blogspot...

[GodfatherofLunch]

Ahh Yes, Rhode island and Egg Creams, they go together like peanut butter and Lox on a rice cake.

[coll]

I just love all coffee flavored things. But their method of making egg creams isn't the way I was taught. Syrup first, then a little milk, then the seltzer poured over the back of a spoon to fill the glass. There are other ways, but this is how I was taught and I cannot deviate.

[Scargod]

Holly crap! This is the first time in 62 years that I've heard of an egg cream! A Brooklyn thing I read..... and NO egg. Imagine that! Is whole milk a prerequisite?

[Passadumkeg]

Chill, dude, many New Yawkers have never herd of or eaten a taco al pastor or a Frito pie.

[Das Ubergeek]

You can use lowfat but it'll be not creamy enough.

Mmmmm... an egg cream and a black-and-white... sigh...

[coll]

Just had possibly the best egg cream of my life at The Hampton Diner in Hampton Bays, the waitress warned me before she made it that it would spoil all others for me. So, it was milk, then seltzer, then syrup on top. The head was almost half the size of the glass. She claims she's famous for hers (why didn't I write down her name) but if you ever end up there, ask! All I know is that she's almost 70 years old.....she said the youngsters will never get it right.

[applehome]

Presumably, it was milked, bottled and delivered that morning - that's pretty darned fresh, even if not ice cold out of the fridge. It was still going on in the early 60's. I don't remember when it ended, but I doubt that it's a useful marketing phrase in this day and age, at least here in the US. That's why I was wondering if doorstep milk deliver still went on in the UK. When I was in Germany in the 70's we had bi-weekly doorstep beer delivery.

[kattyeyes]

I asked my mom about this today. She said the milkman delivered early in the morning, so it's not as though the milk sat out on the porch all day. She is a big fan of "Keeping Up Appearances" and told me that Hyacinth Bucket (that's Bouquet!) left a message for the milkman on one of the shows. So maybe they still do have that in the UK. How cool is doorstep beer delivery! Far sexier than Poland Springs!

LL: that is so cool that you have a milkman in your neck o'the woods! There is nothing like creamline milk even if the cholesterol kid here shouldn't be drinking it! :)

[LindaWhit]

kattyeyes, even when it wasn't being used for milk,the metal box on the back porch was for the extra house key. :-)

I do remember getting milk delivered. Several gallons every couple of days. Loved it. ::::::Sigh::::::: Memmmm-ries..........

[Passadumkeg]

Decker's Dairy, Bordentown, NJ?

[billieboy]

I remember the house I where was raised had a box in the side wall. One door opened in and one opened out. It was for milk delivery and the milkman delivered the milk with a horse-drawn wagon. I used to feed the horse my lunch apple on the way to school....Oh the memories.

[LindaWhit]

No, I was in Bergen County. Not sure of the dairy name anymore...just Googled "Dairies Bergen County" and came up with Farmland Dairies in Fair Lawn. That could have been it. Either way, I do remember being woken up by the milkman in the summer when the bottles rattled while going into the box. :-)

[Passadumkeg]

I thought the milk man and the Bond Bread man were really cool guys and I loved their trucks.
What did you folks teach? Mom taught English.

[LindaWhit]

We never got bread delivered! (Did they do that?) At that stage of my life, it was usually Wonder Bread, but then we graduated to a "healthy bread", the name of which escapes me now. I'm thinking it had a "4" in the name? It wasn't a whole lot different from regular white bread - still ultra-soft and just a tan color with little nubbins of grain in it. But we did buy good Jewish rye at the local bakeries (Wyckoff Bakery). Ten times better than what I can buy now.

And Mom was an English and speech teacher (and coached the drama club at the high school for a few years). Always awkward to get her as a substitute teacher in high school (but she was good - she'd ask me before taking the sub job! LOL)

[Passadumkeg]

I had mom as a sub early on until she got a permanent position. We used to get this wonderful Russian corn rye from, Sietz's, a now defunct bakery. The Russian consulate used to send a driver for it.

[im_nomad]

smartie:..........I wonder if that's something to do with the feeds......some animal feeds have other animals in them...just a thought.

[billieboy]

Mouth feel.....cuz they can't spell techsure?

[Das Ubergeek]

I wanted to reply but I don't get signal in my carhole.

[soniabegonia]

mouth feel - bleh. too obvious and sounds dorky
unctuous - pretentious and sounds unappetizing
food porn - enough already

[therealdoctorlew]

Napped and toothsome in a food review.
Gastrique, jus, and coulis for sauce on an otherwise English menu.
Roasted for baked.
Pan-seared for almost raw.
Fresh creamery butter. (I want rancid artificial butter!)
(But my wife and I still laugh about the menu that offered steak "with delicious Aujus sauce. It was pronounced aw-juss by the waitress, too.)

[Atahualpa]

"with delicious Aujus sauce" I've seen that somewhere too. Some fast food chain while I was travelling in the US. I laughed out loud seeing it!

However, I vehemently disagree with your problems with gastrique, and coulis (I'll give you jus). Each is a sauce. That is true. But, each is a specific type of sauce for which English does not have a single-word term to replace it with. When the French terms are almost universally known (and I think with these two they are indeed just about universally known) why not use them. I feel this is only slightly about avoiding words like pasta (wouldn't noodle do?) or gnocchi.

Ideally, give the more succinct menu item with original foreign terms, and then have a short paragraph explaining the dish below.

[janetms383]

or as Homer would say as he drooled

hmmmm au jus... not quite blood, not quite gravy

[Sooeygun]

'Au jus' is a phrase that I always see being used incorrectly. The sauce is not 'au jus', it's just 'jus.' I can't count the number of times I seen "with au jus" on menus. Arrgh.

I was carving a hip of beef on a buffet one day when a guy pointed at the red wine sauce and asked in a very strong Texan accent if it was 'awgus'. I had no idea what the heck he was saying and he was getting angry. Finally he said, 'you know, gravy!'.

[Scargod]

And, why can't they just say "Today's Soup" (less letters), rather than Soupe du jour? I don't think many have the "e" on the end of soup, on their menus, either.

I like Washington State University's page which states: Soupe du jour (note the E on the end of soupe) means “soup of the day.” If you’re going to use French to be pretentious on a menu, it’s important to learn the meaning of the words you’re using. Often what is offered is potage, anyway. Keep it simple, keep it in English, and you can’t go wrong.
Amen! Please help us illiterate Texans! BTW, SO knows French, so this was a snap!

[goodhealthgourmet]

Scargod, don't hate me, but i have to do this...if they say "Today's Soup," they're using *fewer* letters, not "less" letters.

but your quote from WSU is correct - Soupe (with an e) du jour is French...whereas "Soup du jour" (which many servers don't even pronounce properly anyway) is an Americanized term than should never be used because it's just wrong.

[Scargod]

As I said, "Please help us illiterate Texans!" All donations gratefully accepted. One shouldn't throw stones if they live in glass houses. Mine is a greenhouse.
But it's good you put in the caveat. You should be fearful of the venom a snail's slime can deliver! Have a nice day

[MelMM]

Just like "bleu cheese", which is my pet peeve.

[LindaWhit]

That ticks me off as well, Sooey.

[billieboy]

Whenever I see Soup de Jour on the menu, I always say to my companion. Oh!!! Soup de Jour, that's my favourite. :-)

[LindaWhit]

Oh, I was responding re: Sooey's comment about "au jus" - when menus say something like "a succulent steak served with au jus" I just want to scream "you've used one too many "withs" in that sentence!

But yes, Soup du Jour is yet another one that could be gotten rid out without any great loss.

[adamshoe]

Sort of the like the "Pasta del Giorno" @ an italian place. Customer: "The last time I ordered it, the Pasta del Giorno was completely different!!" Me: "Well, DUH... it means "of the Day". Another gem.... for the longest time one of my co-workers thought that A.Q. on a menu stood for "ask questions" Too cute and always makes me grin when I see it on a menu. adam

[Das Ubergeek]

I haven't seen "A.Q." on a menu in over a decade! Usually we get "M.P." instead.

[adamshoe]

Wracking the old grey cells... Eureka!! Is it market price?? What do I win?
I'd like a tiara.... adam

[billieboy]

And I confess my ignorance .. what is A.Q.? Aqua?

[Das Ubergeek]

"Armenian Quark" -- a very tangy goat's milk yoghurt cheese.

Just kidding. It's "as quoted", which means "if you have to ask, you can't afford it."

[billieboy]

:-) I liked the goat cheese better. Thanks for explanation.

[msemmelh]

I am on a quest to correct this misunderstanding about "A.Q."...! It has nothing to do with expensive items, as many people have suggested here and elsewhere. A.Q. or aq or a.q. or AQ simply means that the price changes frequently because an item is fresh and seasonal ("Fish of the day", for example). Yes, sometimes these items may be expensive, but it is not definitively so. Happy eating!

[dump123456789]

Which ties into various other threads.

Why do places with menu items priced as AQ usually tell you the price when they orally list those AQ items as the "special" of the day, but other places don't tell you the prices of their special specials ?

[msemmelh]

This is an important service point-- some places I've worked want the customer to know exactly what the price is so there are no complaints when the bill arrives, and do not want the customer to feel forced to ask the price openly so that he/she sounds "cheap". Others feel it is rude to mention the price out loud, but run the risk of the customer being surprised.

The bottom line is that if a server does not mention the price of a special, it better be on par with the rest of the menu or they are misleading the customers!

[Jay F]

AQ means "as quoted." So it's required that they quote the price.

[dump123456789]

I thought it was originally French, "a(something) quotidien", meaning "daily", as in "catch of the day".

[alkapal]

i laughed the other day looking at an online menu for a local restaurant, "hong kong palace." the place where it would say "market price" on the menu instead had the word "depends." LOL!

[dump123456789]

Assuming the place is Chinese owned, this language issue is not a surprise.

It is kind of amusing how bluntly it is put though, as opposed to the almost euphemistic "AQ" and "market price". Is there even a Chinese term equivalent to those two ?

[alkapal]

i don't know, but i thought, "well, there it is; you'd better ask!"

love the place, btw.

[janetms383]

I don't order the soup, but I always ask "what's the soup de jour" just to see how many waiter will say "soup of the day" doh!

[alkapal]

janet, i like that one! mind if i steal it?

[janetms383]

Enjoy!

[billieboy]

I am reminded of an old cartoon. Dagwood, I think
He asks
What's the soup de jour?
Waiter."Cream of Mushroom"
Dagwood. "That was the soup de jour yesterday"
Waiter. "Yeah and if it is not sold, it will be the soup de jour tomorrow too"

[haggisdragon]

Thats funny, janetms383. I used to be a server and I had a regular who insisted on making that a running joke between us.

[Seth Chadwick]

"Cooked to perfection."

Totally meaningless.

[Veggo]

I loathe seeing "New and Improved" on food packaging. It's a guarantee that I'm now offered inferior ingredients, or a smaller portion, or both, than that to which I had been previously accustomed.

[danhole]

Degustation menu . . , am i the only one that thinks of a regurgitation menu when I hear that phrase? i know what it means, but it just doesn't sound appealing. I think I would rather have a Nannerpuss pancake deal, which sounds more appealing that degustation. Maybe I am just not that cool. Or maybe just too old.

[Das Ubergeek]

Just call it a tasting menu. The late Bistro K had French words sprinkled apparently at random through its menu, which drove me insane. I know Laurent Quenioux is French, but either write your menu in translation or just hire a menu writer to put it all in English for you. It's one thing to be precise -- a noisette is smaller than a medallion (or, if you like, a médaillon) but honestly, why do you need to call a sauce a "nage"?

I speak French -- I have done so since I was 9 months old -- and so I had no real problem making sense of the menu, but it really kills the pleasure of dining out when my companions have to ask me what to expect on their plate because it's half in French.

Equally irritating are the places (which are dwindling in number, thank Heaven) that don't translate the menu at all, so it's like this OMG SEKRIT CLUB where you have to know what sole Véronique or poussin bonne femme are.

[adamshoe]

Or worse, when they use French or Italian but totally mangle it. Eg; one place I worked, for their Valentine's Menu listed one course as "The Chef's Ameskewl" (!) If you can't figure it out, I'll clue you in later. I had no idea that I'd be opening up the cranky floodgates when I posted this. Really enjoying hearing everyone else's peeves. Remember, grumpiness loves company ;) adam

[Das Ubergeek]

Please tell me he didn't use "amuse-gueule" on a menu! That's so crass... You might say "gueule" to your colleague at the water cooler but never in a formal situation! And "ameskewl" just... wow... French FAIL.

[adamshoe]

Uber: Epic French Fail!! Unrelated story alert... years ago, while working at a very nice resto. (ooh, bad word...) in Oakland, we had a Flatiron steak on the menu. One of my co-workers approached the table to take their order. Customer: "I will have the trout and my wife would like the fla-tee-rhon (pronounced very kind of French-y...) steak" Server: " Pardon me, the what?" Customer: (getting indignant) "The flah-tee-rhon!" Server: "very good, sir; how would the lady like it prepared?" Still can't see the word flatiron without thinking "flah-tee-rhon" ;) adam

[LindaWhit]

LOL! I'm losing it on the "flah-tee-rhon" pronunciation, adam - thanks a lot! That will stick in my mind now when I see it.

Similar is when I was about 18, reading a novel, and called out to my mother "Mom, what's a TEE-toe-TALE-er?" She asked me to pronounce it again, and then asked me to bring her the book and show her the word.

She said "OH. It's pronounced tee-TOHT-ler. It's someone who doesn't drink alcohol."

My response was "well, there you go - I drink beer and whiskey sours (at the time). So that's why I don't know how to pronounce it!"

That word is forever TEE-to-TALE-er in my brain when I see it in print. :-)

[greygarious]

Then there was the article a few months ago that mentioned "a mouse douche".....

[adamshoe]

Shut UP!!! Can you possibly find a link to that? Too funny! Makes me think of the old SNL commercial for "Autumn Fizz", the first and only carbonated douche for when you have that "not so fresh" feeling. adam

[GodfatherofLunch]

I speak no french, but I am curious do these same companions need help with terms like carbonara, empanada, or Pho?
The term Nage would help me to know the sauce will be a light stock, probably vegetable based as opposed to a heavy sauce.
Is it possible that you friends are just not very bright?

[Das Ubergeek]

Possibly.. but for some reason I find that non-French menus are more often translated or described in English, even if the translation is odd ("fried vegetarians").
The item in question, incidentally, was a "mushroom and scallop nage", I believe. The only worse time is a Chinese menu, where the translations are merely cursory and a thing like 魚香加子 can be translated as anything from "garlic eggplant" to "Szechwan spicy vegetable marrow" to "fishy smell egg vegetable".

If you'd like to sit in your chair and feel all warm and superior because you're a kind of walking Larousse Gastronomique, by all means, go ahead. If ever I open a restaurant, I will have my menu explain what things are and you can come and sneer about how pedestrian it all is and how it's such a shame restaurant menus have to be dumbed down for Those People.

[adamshoe]

Godfather, may we speak sotto voce, insieme, per piacere? Some words like carbonara, enchilada, frites, Tutto mondo sapere, capisce? But not everyone knows nage, verjus, strozzapretti, etc. You shouldn't need a glossary or thesaurus to understand what you're (sustainably and locally) chowing on.
adam

[Atahualpa]

How exactly would you translate verjus or strozzapreti?

I am finding it difficult to think of an appropriately accurate and succinct English term for either. Both could probably be omitted from the menu or substituted for generic terms -- but, they don't have obvious direct translations. Strangled Priest isn't quite going to cut it.

[applehome]

I don't think the menu has to explain it all - but the waiter does, or should be able to. But then again, the customer is always right, so if he orders flateeeron steak, by golly, the waiter's job is to smile and say yes sir. If the customer doesn't have the sense to ask about an item he knows nothing about, or to ask if there's a Chinese menu and could he have some help with it, then of course, the customer should get what he deserves.

I'm more concerned that the food is dumbed down, rather than the menu. And unfortunately, here in the USA, food is often dumbed down for Those People.

[Das Ubergeek]

Have you ever actually eaten in a Chinese restaurant in the US?

Models of fawning service, they are not. "Is pork, you like pork" is the type of response you typically get both due to a language barrier and due to a difference in perception of what a waiter does.

I agree that in matters of confusion you should ask the server, but it's also incumbent upon the restaurant to make their menus clear.

[adamshoe]

The same thoughts are conjured by me when I hear the word "gastropub". Yecch!! It sounds like a medical procedure. Dr. to Nurse: push 500 cc's of epinephrine and after we intubate, we'll proceed with the gastropub, STAT. adam

[danhole]

Adam,

Here's another alternative - Dr. to Nurse: push 500 cc's of epinephrine and after we finish the degustation procedure, we'll proceed with the gastropub, But be sure that the Dr. is a specialist in Molecular Gastromony.

Dani

[haggisdragon]

you're just not french enough! ;)

[danhole]

Not going to argue with that!

[Sherri]

"Sauteed in white wine".

To saute or fry requires a minumum temperature of 350 degrees. Water boils at 212 degrees, never reaching the required temperature for a true saute.

The food can be sauteed and sauced with white wine (or other water-based liquid) but, damnit, it cannot be sauteed in white wine.

Yep, I'm grumpy too.

[Glencora]

I'd be happy to never see "served with our signature (anything)" again.

[Das Ubergeek]

I don't see any signature... false advertising! Who was supposed to sign it before it left the kitchen?

Oh dear... I may need to stop reading this thread.

[im_nomad]

i'd add "our world famous"..........at local restaurants.....really..cuz i never heard of you. it's an attempt at funny....and its not funny.

[alkapal]

but i think lum's hot dogs *were* world famous....at least in the civilized world. LOL!

[im_nomad]

it's different if they deserve the name...foods that don't deserve to be recognized shouldn't be touted as "famous"..never mind "world famous".

[alkapal]

ok, so you are agreeing or disagreeing that lum's deserved the name? ;-).

[Passadumkeg]

What's a Lum? Nathan's World Famous Coney Island Dogs!

[Scargod]

Never heard of 'em. Not in all my travels.. World Famous? Small world famous, possibly.
Now here's something accurate:" ----'s Perfected Texas Red".

[Passadumkeg]

Jersey? The epicenter of hot dogs! Texas dogs, sooo popular.

[im_nomad]

sorry alkapal...but I never had one !

[alkapal]

im nomad -- oops!

lum's: while "world famous" not universally known.

....
on "coffee talk," linda richman would now say, "discuss!"
http://images.google.com/images?clien...

{;^D

[im_nomad]

XD alka....i'm a little verklempt...talk amongst yourselves.....

[haggisdragon]

Where I come from "world famous" or or "Best blah, blah blah in blah, blah blah blah, invariably denotes the opposite.

[Bill Hunt]

Until we moved on to some "high-end" franks (oxymoronic?), Lums' were the only hotdogs that I actually enjoyed.

I now use a lot of their tricks, but with a different "frank." We did not have any close, but when we found one, we'd always include them for a casual lunch. Thanks for the memories.

Hunt

PS, in case it is not obvious, I did not grow up in a part of the US, where there were "gourmet" hotdogs, so I didn't know any better. Hey, should we ban "gourmet" also?

[Scargod]

Yup! Anything made out of unknown parts (like franks, bologna, Spam, etc.), can't include gourmet or any other elitist adjective in their description.

[thew]

why?

[Scargod]

Well...it's obvious isn't it? Oxymoronic to call things with chicken butts or pig ears in them "gourmet". I didn't include sausage, because some sausage is made from good cuts of defined meats.
Seems like Spam or a frank/weiner (or frankly, a weiner), implies that it is made from scraps. How are you going to call scraps or trimmmings gourmet? Because it looks cute?

[Das Ubergeek]

I don't know... I've had some truly gourmet ris de veau. I've been served sesos in gourmet restaurants in Mexico, and the finest Chinese restaurant I've ever dined in served me lung slices.

[kattyeyes]

Hey, guy. Gotta disagree with the dismissal of gourmet. Here's a local (CT) example for you. Scroll down to the bottom for the gourmet dogs and lobster dogs! I haven't been yet, but walk right by this place all the time and plan to check it out in season:
http://jacksamericanbistro.com/_wsn/p...

Also, I'd say the pig ear in red chili sauce at Lao Sze Chuan is pretty gourmet! Now, the pig ears I used to buy for my dog at Xpect, I grant you, were not! ;)

[c oliver]

I think the word "gourmet" means nothing as who gets to determine what is gourmet? I've had pig ears that were right up there with some of the very best food. Just had beef cheeks tonight. Ditto. What about sweetbreads? Which offal gets that designation?

Edit: Oooh, I forgot. What about goose liver?

[GodfatherofLunch]

Confit in reference to anything but duck.
Confit is a cooking term for a duck preserved by being salted and cooked slowly in its own fat.
I don't want to even hear about tomato confit

[HotMelly]

And to go with Billieboy's "Oven-baked, It's Pan-fried

[c oliver]

But doesn't that mean as opposed to deep fried. Or would it be sauteed? I don't know?

[chicaraleigh]

there use to be a place in Raleigh that served rabbit confit - I LOVED that stuff....

it was cooked in the same method as duck confit, but obviously used rabbit fat, not duck fat

what would you call rabbit that was salted and cooked slowly in it's own fat?

[GodfatherofLunch]

Do some checking and I am sure you will find it is cooked in duck fat. Rabbit is quite lean, I can even imagine the number of rabbits needed to get the quantity of fat needed.
AS TO
"what would you call rabbit that was salted and cooked slowly in its own fat?"
- that would be called DRY

[chicaraleigh]

LOL.... I wish I could check but sadly the restaurant has long since closed. i distinctly remember them telling me that is was prepared in the same method of duck confit.

At the time (10+ years ago) it didn't occur to me to ask if they used other sources for fat.

I guess this will have to remain one of the great mysteries of life...

[GodfatherofLunch]

Have you ever seen a fat rabbit, me either.
I guess staying lean is what makes it possible for them to "do it" like rabbits

[chicaraleigh]

maybe it's the other way around? they stay lean by doing it like rabbits....

and actually, I have seen some pretty chubby rabbits, granted, they were pets but fat none the less

[GodfatherofLunch]

I will make every effort to test out this theory. Shortly I hope to be able to use a watch band as a belt.

[kattyeyes]

GoL, you're a cwazy wabbit! Best of luck in that endeavor! ;) I had two pet rabbits about ten years ago--both female, both lean despite having a penchant for Cap'n Crunch. And not for dinner!

[GodfatherofLunch]

talk about
snap Crackle and Pop

[haggisdragon]

new thread?: Chowhound, club of food enthusiasts, or refuge of the annoyingly pedantic?

foodies
boite

those words bug me

Me, grumpy? Nah!

[alkapal]

i *like* pedantics. i learn from them. ;-).

[thew]

i love the pedantics. they used to play at CBGB's

[Scargod]

Didn't Minutiae play there, too? The Pretenders?

[Glencora]

There's a recipe in this month's Gourmet magazine for carrot and fennel confit. They're shredded and cooked in olive oil. Doesn't sound appealing at all.

[GodfatherofLunch]

Some folks call anything slow cooked in oil confit. How is that different from oil poached?

Of course you can charge more for an entree garnished with shallot confit than garnished with shallot slowly cooked in oil

[lynnlato]

Or "compote". Our pear compote today on our foie gras & truffle omelette was anything but "compote". Sorry, three slices of baked pear do not constitute "compote".

[adamshoe]

Another frequently used term that gets my dander up is using "carpaccio" to denote something other than raw, thinly sliced filet of beef. Tuna carpaccio-WTF? It's sushi or sashimi or raw tuna; NOT carpaccio.

[lynnlato]

I'm with ya on this one too.

Ya know what else is annoying? When servers think they're funny and purposely mispronounce word. For instance, "mer-lot" or "es-car-gots". Our server today, said "foy grass", in an attempt at humor - not funny, dumbass.

Great. Now I'm all pissy and irritated too. Thanks Adam. (JK)

[GodfatherofLunch]

Yeah, we was robbed
more like pear capone

[applehome]

Interesting etymology of confit in McGee - started out having nothing at all to do with meat. It's gone from fruits and veg to meat and back around to have "the connotations of immersion, impregnation, flavoring, and slow, deliberate preparation..." This general meaning is historically more correct. It might even be referred to as being authentic. And people who make confits of various sorts might even be artisans.

And Phood, you can't undefine Emulsion. It's a scientific term meaning a mixture of two incompatible liquids, with droplets of one liquid dispersed in a continuous phase of the other.

I know we're all pretending to be people who can't appreciate the value of vocabulary and descriptive terminology here, but there are limits. Marketing gurus do come up with some stupid shit, it's true, but we can't roll back words with real meaning - even foreign ones.

[Phoo_d]

Emulsion. Usually accompanied by the word foam or truffle. This is a great thread!

Phoo-D
http://www.phoo-d.com

[cuccubear]

Here is a couple:

Fresh – as in “fresh garden greens” or “fresh chicken breasts”. (Just to reassure you there is no spoiled or rotten meat in the dish.)

Pilaf – for many restaurants this is just a fancy word for rice.

Seasonal, vine-ripened (tomatoes) – or anything similar that infers these vegetables weren’t bought in a store or shipped via tractor trailer from Florida.

and of course...”Hand-crafted from the finest ingredients...”

Sayings like these have become hackneyed and meaningless to me. Just once I’d like to see:

“We rummaged through our cupboards and threw a bunch of stuff together...we hope you like it!”

[Samalicious]

Garden Fresh. I know damn well there's no garden back there.
Decadent. Yeah we're gonna be making out on the table after we eat that.
Veggies. I guess this was cute at some point or another. Now it just irritates me.

[c oliver]

Oh, man, I hate "veggies" too. I try to avoid even typing it in emails. So precious.

Now if Alice Waters describes something as "garden fresh" I'd have no problem with that.

[Samalicious]

True that.

[janetms383]

I guess you and I won't be eating any "delish veggies"!!

[danhole]

I do think that I have had 2 dishes in my life that were really decadent - an actual orgasmic mouth experience. Other than that I put that word on the back shelf. But veggies - no way! I think that's a cartoon, isn't it?

[fern]

An actual orgasmic mouth experience? Ok, I'll bite. ;)

Please tell us about the two decadent dishes!

[Das Ubergeek]

I'm sorry, but "decadent" is another one of those vocabulary stickler pet peeves.

Decadent means rotting or decaying. It does not mean lavish, delicious or rich. "Sinful" gets me too, because I can ask my priest but I'm pretty sure eating chocolate cake is not a sin, as long as you aren't gluttonous.

(Don't get me started on the menu that advertised "our enormity of a decadent chocolate cake".)

[Glencora]

"Sinful" bothers me, too -- as well as the opposite. When my dad says that my mom is "being good," I want to scream, "You mean she's on a diet!"

[fern]

Yes, I think danhole's post agrees with you that "decadent" is misused. I think people use it to mean something that is so good it's bad for you, takes you down.
Anyway, she knows of 2 dishes that give an orgasmic mouth experience and I want to hear about them!
:)

[danhole]

From the Miriam Webster Online dictionary of the word decadent:
3 : characterized by or appealing to self-indulgence <decadent pleasures>

The two dishes are:

1. Dracula's Cream of Garlic Soup at a restaurant named Charivari in Houston that is run by a Transylvanian Chef. I could have bathed in it. So good I wanted to lick the bowl. He makes it with a homemade stock. The flavors balance perfectly, not too much cream or garlic. Perfection in a bowl.

2. The raviolo w/ ricotta, egg and truffle at Da Marco's, also in Houston. Here is an old blog link with a photo of the dish, that doesn't make it look nearly as good as it was. It was incredible! Again, a perfect balance of flavors and textures
http://www.quoz.com/2005/07/da-marco....
You have to scroll down a bit to see it.

[janetms383]

ya beat me!

We were posting at the same time!!!

[fern]

Beautiful, thank you for posting the link and the information. They both sound delicious, and those textures must have been amazing. Love what you wrote, especially about the Cream of Garlic Soup.

[janetms383]

words can and do have more than one meaning. ... check M-W.com
def 3)

1 : marked by decay or decline
2 : of, relating to, or having the characteristics of the decadents
3 : characterized by or appealing to self-indulgence <decadent pleasures>

[Kathleen M]

I always want to barf when I hear "yummy yummy in my tummy"! Are we not yet out of pre-school??? and "to perfection". If we didn't mention "to perfection" should we assume that we are aiming for less?

[janetms383]

spoken, no doubt, by the folks who still go "potty"

[lynnlato]

"spoken, no doubt, by the folks who still go "potty""

Or, worse yet - "tinkle".

[janetms383]

I usually just say "wee wee" LOL

[adamshoe]

I'm a fan of winky-tinky. Anyone who loves Madeline Kahn (who?) knows of what I speak.... adam

[alkapal]

Madeline Kahn, RIP. it has been 10 years.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madeline...

~~~
i'm tired of all the folks who are tired of rachel ray's phrases. ;-).

[jmckee]

Gourmet -- when applied to food, eater, cook, or especially kitchen.

"Melts in your mouth." Virtually meaningless in the cases in which it's used. Ice cream? Yeah. Steak? Not so much.

"Sticks to your ribs." No explanation. Idiosyncratic. Drives me over the edge.

"Homemade" in a restaurant. What, the chef lives next door and runs it over to the restaurant as soon as it's done?

"On a bed of". Calvin Trillin says his family used to refer to "sleepytime" restaurants -- where every thing is served on a bed of something else.

"Low Carb" or "No carb" on things that have never had carbs in the first place.

"Atkins." 'nuff said.

[goodhealthgourmet]

""Low Carb" or "No carb" on things that have never had carbs in the first place."
~~~~~~
i once saw plain bottled water at Starbucks that said "fat free" on the label.

[sfumato]

That's like the "gluten-free" label on stuff that IS naturally gluten-free. Yes, I get that stuff like lettuce is gluten-free, thanks.

[Haiuwi]

"Cholesterol-free" or "No cholesterol". Here is a handy guide for your cholesterol needs:

animal = cholesterol
plant = no cholesterol

Yes, those avocadoes and macadamia nuts are completely cholesterol free. Go wild! Oh wait, they're not FAT free.

[goodhealthgourmet]

i didn't want to get off on a tangent so i left the GF issue alone...but yes, the first time i saw "Gluten-Free!" printed on a container of yogurt, i wanted to scream.

[LicketySplit]

That Trillin "sleepytime" bit is hilarious.

Along the lines of "on a bed of..."

Nestled.
Blanketed.

[Scargod]

Snuggled up next to... Seen that before!

[LolaP]

Oh my god, I hate "melts in your mouth" too. The only foods that can do that are sugar and ice. My mom tried to foist over-cooked summer squash off on my sister and me by declaring it "melts in your mouth!" Why on earth would that make me want to eat it? BTW, actually love summer squash--turns out I am just not a fan when it has been cooked to the point of disintegration.
PS My mom is an awesome cook and has since seen th error of her boiling ways.

[lynnlato]

"Sublime" - overused by every food critic. UGGGGH!

I always got a kick out of the word "fancy", as in "fancy restaurant" or "fancy food".

[janetms383]

hey my Gammy likes to go to Fancy Restaurants in her Sunday dress and good hat!

[lynnlato]

Love it - HA!

Kattyeyes, yes! "classy" is another one of those words.

[kattyeyes]

"Fancy" is right up there with "classy"--I think they're words of the same era. ;)

[billieboy]

I agree with most of the posts. I am so tired of pretentiousness.
Another one I love is "Oven Baked" Gee what a concept. I usually bake in a frying pan on top of the stove.
:-)

[goodhealthgourmet]

billieboy, this is my favorite. thanks for the laugh :)

[adamshoe]

One of the restos (sorry....) I worked for had my favorite typo ever- "over roasted chicken w/ butter milk mashed potatoes and steamed vegetables" adam

[Marge]

Lollipops referring to anything other than hard candy on a stick.
Nibbles--for me, it conjures up images of a rat gnawing on whatever.
As someone else said, deconstructed.

[Kagey]

Here in England, they call popsicles lollipops.

[Marge]

Ok, I'll revise to lollipops referring to anything savory, i.e. lamb lollipops, chicken lollipops...

[Kagey]

Wow that is weird. I've never heard that!

[Bill Hunt]

In much of the US, a lollipop is a candy on a stick. The shape is often a disk. Imagine, say a lamp chop that has been cut and trimmed to resemble a disk on a stick.

Most of the references to lollipop (outside of confectionary), that I have seen have been for the trimming of the item, rather than pure fabrication, though there is some of that too.

Hunt

[Gio]

Well, I'm not particularly grumpy today but I really wouldn't care if I never saw the word, "Foam," on a menu again.

[HotMelly]

Usually quoted by a person we all know and love:

Yummo
EVOO
Good to go

[janetms383]

and don't forget "sammich"

[danhole]

janet - shame, shame. It's "sammie" not sammich.

[billieboy]

Yep Janet, gotta lern to uz more goodder English :-)

[RGC1982]

Have you seen her dog food commercial? NUTRISH???? Yuk. I really hate everything that I hear her say.

[janetms383]

mea culpa!! It is "sammie" and it still annoys the h*ll outta me!!

[danhole]

Annoys me but the one that gets me the most is the "let's let them hang out in the hot tub." Yeah . . . right! That is really more gooder english, for those of us that don't know what boil means!

[goodhealthgourmet]

and "stoup"

ugh.

[adamshoe]

I shudder to ask... What is a "stoup"? Is it a Rachael thing? Is it pronounced "stowp" or "stoop" (as in stoopid) ? adam

[kattyeyes]

You guessed it, guy--it's a Rachael thing--pronounced "stoop" as in cross between stew and soup. Makes you wanna make up your own silly combo words, I know! ;)

[adamshoe]

Ya' mean like my "borkey" meatballs? Beef, pork, turkey. Winking and wincing at the same time...adam
PS katty,the combo words could be a whole, fun new thread ; )

[kattyeyes]

Now I just might have to mix that up so I can be obnoxious and use "borkey" to describe my next batch of meatballs. ;) I think the Swedish Chef from the Muppets might have made them. HA HA! This thread has been a blast. I'll see you over on "combo words" when you start it. Reminds me of that awful "Nicety" song from the late 80s (some people say I'm nice, some people say I'm nasty...if you really wanna know just ask me...then I'll say I'm nicety." UGH. Have a good night, buddy.

[Atahualpa]

Combo Words. Really? What is wrong with the term portmanteau?

[adamshoe]

Isn't that a suitcase? ;) adam

[LindaWhit]

As much as I hate to admit it, it's not a Rachael thing (although she's obviously made it poopular). My mother used to call it stoop as well when it was a very thick soup, like beef-barley-vegetable soup.

[Passadumkeg]

In Jersey/NewYorkese, stoop is also the front steps. Old Dutch colonial work. Sittin' on the stoop.

[LindaWhit]

YES! I forgot about sitting on the front stoop of the house. :-)

[goodhealthgourmet]

you're all missing the differentiating factor - the spelling.

stoop - small porch or steps at front entrance of house; OR to crouch/bend over at the waist
stoup - word to describe a food that's an amalgamation of a soup & a stew

but here's the kicker: i just did a Google search out of curiosity, and apparently a "stoup" is also an archaic drinking vessel or basin for holy water! there's nothing holy about any of the recipes i've seen her make...

[LindaWhit]

You're right - I did screw up on the spelling as well, ghg. Mom did spell it "stoup." And your last sentence is SO true! LOL

[greygarious]

Perhaps what she's making is "stewp".....as in "stewpid" '-)

[kattyeyes]

LindaWhit, "stoop" attributable to your mom is more than OK. I must admit I got a kick out of your typo on "popular" above. On this board, seems if it's attributed to RR, "poopular" is much more fitting. ;)

[LindaWhit]

It wasn't a typo. It's a Lucyism, remember?

While trying yet another take for the commercial for Vitameatavegemin (with 23% alcohol), she says: "Lucy: (drunk) Well, I'm your Vitavatameatymac girl. Are you tired, rundown, listless? Do you pop at parties? Are you unpoopular? (pauses) Well, are you?"

I love the word. :-)

[kattyeyes]

HA HA HA, that's perfect. I do remember Vitameatavegemin, but not the "unpoopular" part. Love it! :)

[Bill Hunt]

Thank you for the details. I would have assumed that one was referring to the little porches, kind of steps with a landing, where folk of days gone by, might sit and watch the evening arrive, i.e. a stoop. Don't see those as much nowadays, and few have anyone sitting on them.

I guess that I am missing a bunch by not watching Ms. Ray.

Hunt

[janetms383]

Quite honestly, I have to change the channel when she come on!

[ribeye621]

Little late for the thread but speaking of "ugh," I just saw something on the Food Network web site and scratched my head, but then I realized it was an RR-ism.

It was a corn "choup" (chowder/soup). I'm not kidding. I think that's even more annoying than stoup.

[alkapal]

hey..."choup" rhymes with "croup"! but maybe she didn't think of that....

why was it both a chowder and a soup, if you know -- and not one or the other?

[greygarious]

All chowders are soups - it's just a word for a chunky soup (comes from the same French root as cauldron) so there's no reason to make up another word. It's like saying strieved rather than strained or sieved.

[KevinB]

EVOO - so agree. What's wrong with saying "olive oil"?!

[c oliver]

Yes! And don't we all use extra virgin anyway so why differentiate?

Thanks for getting/being grumpy, Adam. Such fun :)

[adamshoe]

Gotta admit I'm guilty of using EVOO when typing, (because I'm a hunter-pecker after all these years...) but i would never SAY EVOO when speaking. BTW (sorry) some recipes actually call for just plain ol' OO, esp, when sauteeing or making mayo. etc. Can't get over the response to this topic...more words and phrases, please. adam

[janetms383]

Ming Tsai loves to say S&P and GB&D but then follows the acronym with the explanation. "S&P (salt & pepper)" "GB&D (golden, brown & delicious)" so why bother with the acronym in the first place!

[c oliver]

No. Sigh :)

[goodhealthgourmet]

RR does the same thing - "EVOO, Extra Virgin Olive Oil."

[greygarious]

I'd like to blame Ms. Ray for EVOO, but there was a Boston restaurant by that name that, I believe, preceded her rise to fame.

As for my pet peeves: AWESOME and AMAZING. They are nonspecific and hackneyed.

[goodhealthgourmet]

i don't have a problem with the acronym...i take issue with the fact that every time she says it, she then goes ahead and says the full name of the product anyway. it's never just "EVOO" it's always "EVOO, extra virgin olive oil." no point bothering with an acronym if you're just going to explain what it stands for every time you use it.

[jmckee]

There's an old Doonesbury strip, in which one character is having an imagined conversation with a friend who has passed away.

"What's God like?"

"Remember what 'awesome' meant before it was applied to pizza? That's Him."

[smtucker]

he also says "guys" alot... like "guys remember to watch the temperature" a lot. It is like a facial tick. Only annoys me with him. But, I watch him anyway.

[janetms383]

yeah, the "guys" bothers me too (and I still watch him)

[goodhealthgourmet]

Tyler Florence says "guys" a lot too...but i still watch him as well. i'll take that from either one of them over RR's "kids" any day.

[janetms383]

LOL I guess we've all got our peeves! Mine is: delish

The word is delicious folk, D E L I C I O U S!!!

How much harder is that to type??

[barndog]

Thank you!
Ressie, resto.....type the whole damn word out, people!
You make a reservation at a restaurant.
Makes me apoplectic.

[alkapal]

then you must be heading for a big heart attack by reading chowhound!

[barndog]

I keep my medication and a portable defib kit near the computer ;)

[therealdoctorlew]

Defibrillator, eh? Too much cholesterol in your arteries. And I hate carbs. Say Carbohydrates!

[Scargod]

Yea, what alkapal said... I hope you haven't (and won't), read my OP about acronyms and abbreviations!

[Candy]

Can we add Eatery to that? I hate that term.

[Das Ubergeek]

Funny story -- I was in a mid-sized city in Quebec many years ago. Sherbrooke was really kind of an island of English in a sea of French (it's since, long since, changed), but the rules were you had to have your signs in French.

There was a place called somebody's Eatery -- maybe Jack's Eatery? So they translated it and decided that "mangerie" was an eatery. Except there's really no such word in French, so the sign maker corrected the grammar and the place was "Jack Menagerie".

[Scargod]

Crispier ~ Crispiest. My friend Sallie, a Professor of English, would throw a fit! If it's "crisp" that all there is! 200% crisp? 200, 300%...in relation to what? Oh, geez, I've gone off on a tangent. Anyway, I'm 500% certain crisp is all there should be.
"Cheese you off" bugs me. Can't you just say pisses? I know I'm grumpy!

[adamshoe]

I was gonna say "piss" you off, but thought the mods might come after me. Besides, cheese fits in with the whole "Foodie" (hee-hee!) theme. adam

[small h]

I can't stand recipes that instruct you to cook, say, asparagus until it's "crisp-tender." That's like cooking something until it's "hot-cold."

[goodhealthgourmet]

crisp-tender makes perfect sense to me...i've always taken that to imply that it's tender, but still has a little snap or "tooth" to it (i.e. it's not over-cooked to the point where it gets mushy).

[small h]

I understand what the words mean; I just think it it's a clumsy, imprecise way to get the point across.

"Steam the asparagus, being careful not to overcook it."
"Steam the asparagus until just cooked through."
"Steam the asparagus for a minute or two."

Hell, use al dente if you feel like it.

[alkapal]

small h, the alternatives (?) you present -- if they are such -- are in fact *less* precise than crisp-tender, or tender-crisp.

[Scargod]

I disagree. Seems too much like an oxymoron. Perhaps it's just me: moronsnail.
Tender implies cooked, but is completely ambiguous. One with good teeth and a strong jaw might think just waving anything raw over steam (to sanitize), is good. How many have disagreed over whether a steak was tender or not?
Crisp implies crunchiness, brittleness and even noise. How can you find that fine line where asparagus is crunchy, yet tender? I think once you have snapped off the tough end you have found it. Cooking is superfluous.

Al dente has no crisp in it, just firm bite. No crisp-tender for my pasta, thank you!

[small h]

Only if you think "crisp" and "tender" are somehow quantifiable. I don't. I also think they're close enough to being opposites that they shouldn't be linked together, because one cancels out the other.

Anyway, if you draw your eyes upward to the OP, you'll see that the topic is "Food words I'd like to never see again." I would like to never see those words used in that way again. That's my opinion. You can agree with me or disagree with me, but you won't have much luck proving me "wrong," which is what it seems like you're trying to do.

[Scargod]

Touche! Touche! Or, should I say touchy, touchy?

[small h]

<Touche! Touche! Or, should I say touchy, touchy?>

Both are correct. (I don't do emoticons, but you can mentally insert one here.)

[ypman]

Fusion. When I see that it usually just means I am going to get a mix of things that should never have been fused in the first place.

[adamshoe]

And it's corollary: Deconstructed. I'm waiting to see a menu with "reconstructed" items on it.... adam

[Cachetes]

Shouldn't that simply be fission cooking?

[c oliver]

HoHoHo.

[Bill Hunt]

I usually do that on my plate, when the "deconstructed" version of X arrives. Drives the chefs simply mad!

Hunt

[kattyeyes]

Or how about use of "fusion" when nothing is even "fused"...we have a local "fusion" restaurant that serves hibachi, Chinese, Thai and sushi. The only thing "fused" is that it's all offered on the same menu...in its separate respective spots. HA HA!

Also wish "unctuous" would go away as an adjective in restaurant reviews about dishes that are supposed to be *favorable*...sorry, "fatty, oily" or "smooth and greasy in texture or appearance" aren't generally things I'd like to have a bite of.

[c oliver]

Hi, k. But I know what they're trying to say with "unctuous." Is there a better word for those "fatty and oily" short ribs?

[kattyeyes]

Hey there. I know what they mean, too, but there has to be a better word than "unctuous"...let's think of one. Same for wine...I'd say something is "buttery" over "unctuous" any day of the week re wine. I guess because I like buttery chards and don't like to think of myself drinking an oil slick! ;)

[Das Ubergeek]

People use "unctuous" when they mean something is deeply flavoured. It drives me insane, because all I can think of is "extreme unction", otherwise known as the Last Rites.

[kattyeyes]

There you go. "Deeply flavoured" works for me, but I didn't know "extreme unction" is aka the Last Rites! That makes "unctuous" even less appetizing and more annoying!

[c oliver]

I am holding my sides laughing. I DO know about Extreme Unction but had never had that thought. Now I always will.

[toodie jane]

h-m-m-m. I think 'unctous' when thinking of both the flavor and texture--the two go together here--of cartilage and collegen in a slow-cooked pork shoulder. Have I been using it incorrectly?

[Das Ubergeek]

No, you're right because it is kind of oily... it just sounds unappetizing to me.

[Haiuwi]

Unctuous is derogatory.

"3: full of unction ; especially : revealing or marked by a smug, ingratiating, and false earnestness or spirituality"

" 1 not being or expressing what one appears to be or express<an unctuous effort to appear religious to the voters>— see insincere 2 overly or insincerely flattering<an unctuous appraisal of the musical talent shown by the bossʼs daughter>— see fulsome "

It does mean oily, as in a vile, slick salesman.

I cannot see how this could possibly translate into "deeply or strongly flavored". The people using it thusly clearly have no idea what the word really means. I want nothing to do with anything unctuous. I am immediately repelled by things described as unctuous.

[toodie jane]

1 a: fatty , oily b: smooth and greasy in texture or appearance
2: plastic <fine unctuous clay>
3: full of unction ; especially : revealing or marked by a smug, ingratiating, and false earnestness or spirituality

from Medeivil Latin, unctus, to annoint

so it appears it can apply both to a nasty character out of Babbit or the pieces of cartilage that my husband passes to me from his plate because he knows I like them and he doesn't.

M-m-m-m I think I'll make pot roast today, or maybe chile verde.

[Bill Hunt]

I'd go with "ten napkins," and let the reader infere what they wish. "Unctuous" never bothered me, until now. Maybe I'll add it to my list?

Hunt

[haggisdragon]

how about "heart stopping"

[Bill Hunt]

Were I to listen to my cardiologist, that might apply to my love for foie gras - or, it might not.

With the number of health concerns, were I a menu copywriter, I'd steer clear of "heart stopping." Can you say, "Heimlich Maneuver?"

Hunt

[Haiuwi]

Seems like that restaurant is confusing fusion with eclectic. I guess fusion brings to mind electricity and energy, and eclectic brings to mind loners, Alzheimers patients, and eccentrics.

Unctuous just makes me think something is obnoxiously awful.

[Scargod]

He was found unctuous on the floor. Obviously overdosed on raw pork belly.

[beevod]

"Cheese you off." Jarlsberg? Gouda?

[Cachetes]

I'm going to put my vote in for "cloying". Seems to be used more now, to no great advantage. I groan everytime I see it.

[Passadumkeg]

Blackened anything. Upscale chains ( a contradiction in terms?). Slyders other than White Castle. Mexican restaurants where no one speaks Spanish. "Fall off the bone" BBQ ribs.
Feeling old and grumpy

[janetms383]

I used to go to a Japanese restaurant were the "sushi chef" never spoke to the customers. I thought he was authentic Japanese until I heard the cashier speak to him in Spanish.

[adamshoe]

Maybe the chef was a "fusion" of Japanese and Latino ;) adam

[janetms383]

Well I live in So Calif an I think it was regular Mexican Spanish!

[toodie jane]

my local chef is from a small town outside Tokyo, but he speaks kitchen (and sports?) Spanish very well with his crew. They speak a sort of Japanese/Spanish patois as well.

[Atahualpa]

There is also a very large Japanese-Peruvian community. Many of them have subsequently re-emigrated to North America.

[Sam Fujisaka]

Come to my house for the same effect.

[bob96]

Even though I suspect the term will die out because the pure practice itself is, well, mostly unsustainable on a large scale, I find "locavore" to be a particularly annoying badge of smug self-congratulation. On the other hand, as much as I get tired of such phrases as "pan seared" or "house [cured] made", they're largely harmless and mostly transparent marketing gimmicks.

[adamshoe]

Let me ( in my magnificent grumpaliciousness) add a few more. "Local", "Sustainable" and "Humane"- when talking about the treatment of soon-to-be food; as in animals. Let's face it omnivores-something has to die sometimes to feed our cravings, and there really is no "humane" way to kill something, whether it's been massaged and listening to classical music or not. Ok, rant over. Your thoughts? adam

[MakingSense]

You have my vote for your favorite three: local, sustainable, humane.
Totally misused and goofy.
Local, according to Whole Foods, is something like seven hours from their "facility." What the hell does that mean? Do they know how fast some of these trucks drive?
Family farms that have been using pesticides and herbicides for generations still "sustain" their whole gig.
And no matter how sweet and "humane" you are about it, the critter is going to be dead.

Just get over it.
We didn't fight out way to the top of the food chain for nothing.
Let's remember to wish Charles Darwin a Happy 200th Birthday! Cheers!

[jeanmarieok]

I agree on 'local' particularly - I bought 'local','organic' green beans over the summer at Kroger (they had a beautiful display of 'local' produce), only to find out that they were farmed in North Carolina, about 5 hours away. That was disappointing, to say they least.. I suspect 'local' on a restaurant menu means the same thing.

My CSA provides vegetables for a number of restaurants in VA. I like it when a restaurant menu provides the name of the farm they get a particular item from. It makes the menu description longer (a pet peeve for some), but I like seeing 'from Joe's farm in Powhatan, VA'. To me, that's what 'local' is.

[KTinNYC]

Your standards for local may be too strict for New York City. It's my understanding that their are 'local' farmers that drive 5 hours to sell at our green markets. I would consider them local because property values are so high it's hard to have a farm in the metro area.

[jeanmarieok]

That's interesting, and I never thought about it from a more urban perspective. Thanks!

[wb247]

I feel like a 40-50 mile radius still applies, no matter what. Either it's local or it isn't. Anything more than that is simply redifining a term to fit your personal needs and convince yourself you're supporting local farmers when in reality, what you're paying for property is killing off local farmers. Some places just can't get "local" produce. That's a trade-off on living in a heavily urbanized area. Sometimes, a garden on top of the building is the only way to get local produce.

[Bill Hunt]

A valid point, but there can be exceptions. Think of Hawai`i, for instance. A "local farmer" could be on another Island, which would certainly be beyond that mileage. On the Big Island, a restauranteur in the Kona-area, might procure produce from Hilo and be just outside that radius. In these particular cases, I think that the "intent" is present, if not the exact geographic details.

You point of urban metro-areas is good, but there are certainly many outlying areas, that must go just across a river to get product A, or B.

I'd not like to see a defining of exact distances be enforced. Rather, it should be the intent, and let's just hope that marketing gets thrown out with the bath water.

I think that giving the specific location for an ingredient is good enough. I'll do the geographic calculations.

I also do not mind a little bit of info on the producer, or procurer of the item. Dined recently at a restaurant, that changed its menu almost hourly, if necessary. They kept the diner updated on the boat, or fisherman, who caught, say the ahi, plus listed the method. To me, it was a nice touch. To others, it was probably more than they ever wished to know. Do you care who caught the ahi that you're about to order, and how he/she caught it? Many probably do not care to know, and would find the restaurant's printing and re-printing of their menu overkill.

If the micro-greens are from Maui and I'm on O`ahu, I still consider them "local," though many would likely not.

Just some thoughts,

Hunt

[wb247]

I'm not so sure I entirely agree. Something grown on a different island could be better classified. Such as "regionally grown," or "independently grown." I wouldn't doubt such an ingredient's quality or freshness, but it isn't local.

That said, I think it would be really great if lots of restaurants would share their producers and have a serving staff that takes pride in the ingredients used in the kitchen, but that's an entirely different issue! Even if the food may not actually be any better, I find it to be so much more satisfying if I think I'm helping to support a small, independent producer. It may be a little extra expense and a little extra effort, which isn't easy in an economic down-time, but knowing my food isn't coming from some monstrous, uncaring, impersonal corporate factory production facility is very comforting.

[Das Ubergeek]

You've clearly never been to Hawai'i then, because anything island-grown is considered local. On Hawai'i, though, you'll normally see "Hawai'i grown" and much more use, even in markets, of the actual location. ("Puna papayas", "Kabocha from Kalapana", "Waimea beef", "Kealakekua coffee" as opposed to just generic "Kona").

[wb247]

I don't doubt that. What I'm saying, is that the term "local" is tossed around too loosely.

[c oliver]

I live at 6400' elevation. We basically have NO commercial produce sales. Any gardening that's done here is for personal consumption. We have farmers market but the food is brought in from approx. 100 miles away. That's as "local" as we get. And it counts IMO. I think it's best not to generalize or categorize things. Some of us have more limited choices than others.
PS: If I tried to garden on my roof, it can get snow any month along with freezing temps.

[irishnyc]

"Local" is generally considered anything within about 200 miles or a 5-6 hour drive. I've also seen it loosely interpreted as anything within a one day drive.

[queencru]

Agreed about local. Let's face it, for most places in the US, local in the true sense is not realistic for most of the year. Many places are too cold, others are too hot, others are too dry. I can see it making sense for a store to sell Florida citrus in Florida instead of citrus from elsewhere, but calling something local when it is 4 states away is ridiculous.

[Bill Hunt]

Maybe serving only "free-range" chickens, that have all died of "natural causes?"

I am squarely with you on "authentic," but have fewer problems with some of the others. Maybe I am NOT grumpy enough today...

Did get a chuckle from JanetMS383's comment though. Could be that it cheered me up too much.

Hunt

[cayjohan]

I would loooove a chicken that died of very-near-to "natural causes," i.e. an old stewing hen. Grew up with them, have missed them ever since. It's extremely difficult and weirdly expensive to find an elderly hen for stewing. Sooo sick of 3 pounders.

What does "natural causes" mean, anyway?

Cay

[GodfatherofLunch]

Just sneak up on the chicken and yell BOO!!!

[GodfatherofLunch]

I speak no french, but I am curious do these same companions need help with terms like carbonara, empanada, or Pho?
The term Nage would help me to know the sauce will be a light stock, probably vegetable based as opposed to a heavy sauce.
Is it possible that you friends are just not very bright?

[cayjohan]

GoL: huh? Not certain of the reply? Cay

[GodfatherofLunch]

Sorry my mistake, I was trying to reply to a post from Das Ubergeek . he said
"Just call it a tasting menu. The late Bistro K had French words sprinkled apparently at random through its menu, which drove me insane. I know Laurent Quenioux is French, but either write your menu in translation or just hire a menu writer to put it all in English for you. It's one thing to be precise -- a noisette is smaller than a medallion (or, if you like, a médaillon) but honestly, why do you need to call a sauce a "nage"? I speak French -- I have done so since I was 9 months old -- and so I had no real problem making sense of the menu, but it really kills the pleasure of dining out when my companions have to ask me what to expect on their plate because it's half in French." Equally irritating are the places (which are dwindling in number, thank Heaven) that don't translate the menu at all, so it's like this OMG SEKRIT CLUB where you have to know what sole Véronique or poussin bonne femme are."
I answered "- " re: Das Ubergeek - I speak no french, but I am curious do these same companions need help with terms like carbonara, empanada, or Pho?
The term Nage would help me to know the sauce will be a light stock, probably vegetable based as opposed to a heavy sauce. Is it possible that you friends are just not very bright?""

[Bill Hunt]

It happens, especially in longer threads, or in similar threads. I often find myself replying in thread A, when I thought I was in thread B. I even scratch my head about those. I can imagine how others feel.

Hunt

[paulj]

As a kid I saw a number of chickens being killed. I have a clear idea of what the phrase 'run around like a chicken with its head cut off' means. Later on, at 'rural living camp' we got to practice killing and cleaning chickens - on a flock of retired layers. The quickest way for dispatching a bird was to place its neck between a broomstick and the ground, grab the legs, and - I'll leave the rest to your imagination!

[cdnexpat]

I am traumatized. My imagination is vivid.

I think I'm going back to being vegan... And maybe believing in Santa again.

Ulp.

[coll]

Yes, it's so much better in the factory, just a quick slice with a knife, and they can't run around because they're hanging upside down by the legs. When they start running around spurting blood on the ceiling is the problem.

Never stopped me from enjoying chicken meat myself, I guess I have a sadistic streak.

[paulj]

There was a bit of stink last November, when the Gov. of Alaska gave a post-election interview on a turkey farm, while the farmer used such a machine in the background.

[Glencora]

I saw that video. It was funny in an awful way to see her smiling and chatting while the turkey's legs were waving in the air behind her as the guy tried to stuff its head into the machine.

[cdnexpat]

I remember that! Hilarious.

I guess I have a sadistic streak, too.

[lergnom]

I hated the chicken killing times and it was only for laughs that they'd let ones run around after their heads were cut off. The birds would get contaminated with manure or other unknown stuff lying around.

It was much easier to pack animals in a van or truck and haul them to the meat packing plant where they'd "process" them. And I mean easier psychologically.

[alixium]

a way overused phrase in the province of Quebec (and in France, too, I think) is "du terroir". du terroir does not mean anything. it sort of means the product has been produced in the region for centuries, or is just produced in the region, or is simply artisanal, or...
everything comes from the "terroir" these days!
does something similar exist in English...?

[c oliver]

Adam, I'm so with you on "artisanal." I actually thought about that earlier today. If it is, then we know it. If it's not, then we know that also. In NoCal, there's so much wonderul cheese, it feels redundant I've been grumpy today also :)

[janetms383]

What would Artisanal be without the ANAL??

[Veggo]

LOL! You have changed what will be my pronunciation of that word forever.

[c oliver]

Ditto! I'll never see the word again with giving it that emphasis. Thanks, janet.

[Scargod]

Anal artist... usually not referring to food artists.

[c oliver]

or "art is anal." What would be oral? "artisoral" Much better

[Scargod]

Oral erectologist: an artisan who can give you a hard-on for their food. Someone who can make your tongue hang out when you get near their cooking.

[c oliver]

I know words are adding to dictionaries every year. What do you suppose our chances are ?

[Scargod]

Dunno... but I'm entering that one in the Washington Post's yearly contest for twisted word meanings.. Got that? This one is mine!

[c oliver]

"Oral erectologist"??? Let us know if it makes the cut. I've already told a couple of people about it.

[goodhealthgourmet]

sounds like a [more eloquent] derivation of Top Chef contestant Andrew's "culinary boner" ;)