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Wouldn't water softener effect the taste?

c oliver Feb 23, 2009 12:21 PM

Long story which I won't bore you with but we just "returned" from spending a week in our next door neighbors' house. We're on the same water supply and I've always loved our water. We're at Lake Tahoe and the water is so cold and clear and wonderful. I didn't think our neighbor's water was nearly as good; nothing wrong with but not as good as ours. My husband agreed. I'm guessing they have a whole house water softener as my hair, after shampooing there, was awfully soft. I'm just guessing that a water softener would have to effect the taste of water. Any experience/knowledge about this? Thanks.

  1. n
    Nyleve Feb 24, 2009 07:23 AM

    Depends entirely on what, exactly, is in the untreated water. We have a well and our water contains a lot of minerals, especially iron. Iron gives water a very metallic taste. I don't like the taste of it, and for washing it leaves orange stains on clothing and porcelain or tile surfaces. It also interferes with soap sudsing. So the way we deal with it is to have a water softener hooked up to our water supply, feeding all the taps, hot and cold, in the house. We have one cold water line that is diverted, which I use for cooking and to keep in a Brita-filtered water pitcher for drinking. The Brita removes the irony taste without adding salt or doing whatever it is that water softeners do.

    Depending on where you live, the water source may contain a lot of sulfur (very stinky), a lot of calcium (which clogs up coffeemakers etc.) or a lot of metals like iron (which has a strong taste). Calcium, in my experience, is nice tasting in water so maybe that's what your supply has mostly.

    1. danhole Feb 24, 2009 08:07 AM

      My DH sells water filtration systems, and water softener systems. All a water softener does is add salt to the water to make it soft, uh, duh! It does not affect the taste of the water at all. If the water tastes different, then it is something else, or it could be that their softener system is a bit out of whack.

      I went to college in a small town that had really soft water, and I found out quickly that I only had to use half as much shampoo or conditioner, and gosh my hair was beautiful. When I would come home, where the water is terribly hard, it was a shock for my hair and skin.

      1 Reply
      1. re: danhole
        m
        mfessary Dec 8, 2011 09:15 AM

        Uh, duh, salt is a taste. And, since I had/have this problem, I looked up why salt tastes the way it does -- the tongue has ion channels which react to Na+ -- i.e. it is the sodium in salt that is responsible for the taste of salt. (And other similar size ions in "substitute salt" that also trigger these receptors, to some extent.) So, when you replace the Ca++ ions with two Na+ ions, you are in fact changing the taste of the water.

        As far as I know, the only way to remove the taste is through an ion-exchange filter. Standard Brita, etc filters use charcoal, a material to which organic compounds (and chlorine for some reason) adhere. It doesn't attract/filter Na ions. :(

      2. b
        bnemes3343 Feb 24, 2009 08:24 AM

        A water softener replaces calcium and magnesium ions in the water with calcium ions. But this is not salt (NaCl), just calcium ions. It makes the water 'work' better with soap (and prevents the formation of scale inside pipes). I don't really see how this would affect the taste.

        2 Replies
        1. re: bnemes3343
          k
          kmcarr Feb 24, 2009 12:37 PM

          bnemes, I think you mistyped. The ions removed are calcium and magnesium as you stated but they get replaced in the water with sodium ions, not calcium. You're correct that it is not putting salt (sodium chloride) into the water, just the free sodium (Na(+)) ions. Salt is used to periodically regenerate the exchange medium.

          1. re: kmcarr
            b
            bnemes3343 Feb 25, 2009 10:14 AM

            Yes, my typo. They are replaced with sodium ions.

        2. ivanova Feb 24, 2009 08:58 AM

          My father has had a water softener for as long as I can remember and I hate the taste of the water at his house. Growing up I drank from the same municipal water supply in a house just a mile or two away, and could easily taste a difference when I visited him. He's moved several times since then, and the water tastes the same at each home.

          1. amyzan Feb 24, 2009 09:19 AM

            We have a water softening system set up to feed all but one tap in the house. The water doesn't taste any different from this tap than it does from the others, but it does perform differently with soap and detergent. We have a lot of calcium in the water here, so without water softener, we'd be cleaning or replacing plumbing more often. As it is, at the tap where the water isn't softened, I have to clean out the aerator fairly often, because it gets clogged with little calcium crystals.

            7 Replies
            1. re: amyzan
              b
              bnemes3343 Feb 24, 2009 09:30 AM

              So like most everything else on Chow, there is a definitive answer. It definitely DOES change the taste of the water and it definitely does NOT change the taste of the water.

              1. re: bnemes3343
                n
                Nyleve Feb 24, 2009 09:52 AM

                Come to my house and taste both the softened and unsoftened water and then tell me what you think. The difference is so dramatic that you won't believe it's from the same source - which it is. As I said, in our case it's not the calcium that's the problem, it's the iron. Imagine sucking on a rusty nail - THAT's how it tastes.

                1. re: Nyleve
                  r
                  RosemaryHoney Feb 24, 2009 10:09 AM

                  Yeah, I think it's probably a matter of what your water tastes like/contains BEFORE going through the softener that determines whether it is affected in terms of taste. Two years ago, we bought a new house (well, a very old old house, but new for us). About 2 months after moving in, we "discovered" that our water was being routed through a water softener. We unhooked it, and immediately noticed a change in the taste. It's hard to verbalize, but it's something like c oliver reports - after disconnecting the softener, our water tasted cleaner and crisper.

                  1. re: RosemaryHoney
                    applehome Feb 26, 2009 09:04 PM

                    If you were using a water softener for 2 months and not replacing the salt, you were probably running your water through a substrate that was no longer actually softening the water (in terms of ion bonding and heavy particle replacement), but might have been affecting the flavor. You might consider putting in the salt and turning on the system (for a while) before making a final judgment as to taste. There might be other reasons to want the water softener, as well, although after 2 years you would probably know.

                    We're on well water and lived with high iron and manganese and low pH (acidic) water for years. I was replacing faucet washers every 6 months, and we had to use dryer sheets to be able to wear our underwear. Once we put in the softener, (plus neutralizer) all our problems went away, in terms of pipes, faucets clothes, hair and skin - so there's a lot more to think of than just taste. What we found was that the softener water did taste very slightly salty to us - even though they'll tell you that the salt is just for back-flushing the substrate. So we bought an R/O unit for under the kitchen sink. R/O water isn't without it's problems either. It's the closest thing to distilled without being distilled, and there are controversial write-ups about how it can actually pull calcium and electrolytes from your body. Having a completely neutral water with no minerals actually detracts from coffees and teas which benefit from having a small level of particulates to seed the flavoring agents that are brewed out of the beans and leaves. So we've attached the R/O to the icemaker and use it for drinking water, where we notice the very slight saltiness the most. All the rest, from coffee to cooking is the softener water. Like everyone is saying, it just depends on what you had - ours is just so much better than what it was before.

                2. re: bnemes3343
                  amyzan Feb 25, 2009 10:51 PM

                  I don't believe I contradicted myself within that post. Perhaps you meant to reply to ivanova above? I still maintain that I don't detect a taste difference between the softened taps and the unsoftened tap. I really don't know how to account for others who have a different experience. I have a notoriously sensitive palate, so I think I'd notice.

                  1. re: amyzan
                    n
                    Nyleve Feb 26, 2009 06:30 AM

                    Like I said, it would depend on what, exactly, is in the specific water you tasted. If the mineral that was removed had a flavour (like iron) you'd notice if it was removed. If it was calcium only, maybe you wouldn't. Every water source will have a different chemical profile.

                    1. re: Nyleve
                      amyzan Feb 26, 2009 10:46 AM

                      Our water doesn't happen to be high in iron, so that's probably the difference. Your water softening system removes the iron, mine doesn't have to in the first place, hence the reason your water tastes different softened while mine doesn't.

              2. danhole Feb 24, 2009 10:39 AM

                My husband, the water softener guy, came home for lunch and I was asking him about this. He said that if anything the water softener would affect the taste by making the water cleaner, because there is not as much calcium build up in the pipes if you have hard water. And it is only salt that is used. There are 2 kinds of salt, pellet salt which is cleaner and what most restaurants use, and then there is solar salt (more like rock salt) which is what most homes use. He also said that one thing that could make a difference is if the softener was professionally installed or not. The only way to change that taste of the water is to have some type of carbon filtration system. We have a filtration system that is in our refrigerator that makes our water taste really good, not that it tasted bad in the first place, but after we got this filter system and I saw what stuff showed up in it, I was shocked!

                1 Reply
                1. re: danhole
                  n
                  Nyleve Feb 24, 2009 11:31 AM

                  Right. Now, without attempting to explain the actual chemistry that goes into the water softening process, I will say that I have been assured by someone who knows that virtually NONE of the salt that is used remains in the water at the end. We've recently switched from regular salt to pellets, but I don't notice any difference. I have lived in this house with this water softener for nearly 28 years now and I still have no freaking idea how it actually works. But the fact is we could effectively use neither our dishwasher nor our washing machine without having the water softened; and I can't bring myself to choke down a glass of unsoftened water straight from the tap because of the iron taste. Run it through the Brita and it's delicious. But I'm not sure that the Brita removes all the calcium or just the iron. For coffee and drinking, I use unsoftened water that has been Brita-filtered. For washing, softened water.

                2. m
                  mpjmph Feb 24, 2009 11:48 AM

                  Most of what we taste when we drink water comes from the mineral content, water softeners change the mineral content, so I think it's a pretty valid guess to say that with all else equal a water softener system could explain the difference in flavor.

                  1. c oliver Feb 24, 2009 11:51 AM

                    As the OP, I'm finding this very interesting. Of particular note was the calcium issue. I had a routine bone density test a few months ago and my bones were so (good) dense that she scanned some other areas to make sure that hadn't been an anomaly. Wouldn't that be a nice result of drinking our great water. And it IS just great water. I've lived on wells and like those also but our water here is just the best. Gonna grab me another glass just thinking about it :)

                    2 Replies
                    1. re: c oliver
                      n
                      nvcook Feb 24, 2009 01:57 PM

                      We had a water softener installed when our home was built. It uses the pellets. We chose to have it not go into the kitchen sink. I can taste a difference between bathroom sink water and kitchen water. Not "bad", just different. However, I use a fraction of the amount of detergent in laundry and shampoo and LOOOVE how my skin feels with soft water (a very good thing here in the high desert). Also, clothes seem to hold their color better and not wear as fast. Besides, our refrigerator has a built in water dispenser with a filter that's ice cold.

                      1. re: nvcook
                        c
                        ceejay2005 May 20, 2009 05:38 AM

                        Try adding another salt which will dissolve in the water into positive and negative ions (but not regular table salt).
                        Make sure that the new salt is comprised from ions that will combine with Na+ and Cl- ions to from a non soluble salt (third and forth kind of salt). The non soluble salt will form into a solid and remove the unwanted Na+ and Cl- particles. Then just sift solids out of the water and viola! http://www.unitedwatersystems.com

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