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Jacque Pepin 20 minute bread - really good

bnemes3343 Feb 17, 2009 04:52 AM

On an episode of Fast Food My Way, he and Claudia made a very quick 'bread'. 1 1/2 cups of flour, 1 cup of water, salt to taste and 1/4 tsp of baking soda (or was it powder?) and some olive oil. Then cooked it covered in a non-stick pan coated with olive oil with a tablespoon or two of water poured around the edges.

My first attempt was in a 12" pan (couldn't really tell what size he had). Too big. The bread was too thin and I actually undercooked it. Second attempt was a 10". Better, but kind of bland really. Third attempt last night I added a tablesppon or two of chopeed fresh rosemary and one medium crushed garlic clove. Cooked 8 minutes on first side and 7 on the second. It was wonderful. The wife and kids declared it a big hit. From start to finish, 20 minutes.

Anyone else tried this? What's your variation. I would imagine other herbs or green onions might be good in it.

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  1. greygarious RE: bnemes3343 Feb 17, 2009 05:50 AM

    I saw that one but didn't write it down. Do I remember correctly that the pan was covered? I would have thought it a 10" pan. Did you use soda or powder, and how much oil? I'd try chive, scallion, or sauteed shallots, and maybe some finely-grated Parmesan.

    4 Replies
    1. re: greygarious
      bnemes3343 RE: greygarious Feb 17, 2009 06:09 AM

      Yes, 10". After putting the batter in the pan, he put a couple of tablespoons of water around the edges and covered it.. Medium high heat. It is 1 1/2 cups flour, 1 cup water, 1/4 tsp baking powder, salt to taste, about 2 tbs of olive oil and then whatever you want to add. All your suggestions sound great. It definitely needs something other than just the basic recipe.

      1. re: bnemes3343
        janetms383 RE: bnemes3343 Feb 21, 2009 07:43 AM

        After you flip the bread, do you cover it for the second side?

        1. re: janetms383
          Val RE: janetms383 Feb 21, 2009 09:33 AM

          Yes, in the video, that's how he did it, covered for the 2nd side.

          1. re: Val
            janetms383 RE: Val Feb 21, 2009 01:11 PM

            thanks Val

    2. janetms383 RE: bnemes3343 Feb 17, 2009 08:32 AM

      is this like the CI recipe?

      13 Replies
      1. re: janetms383
        greygarious RE: janetms383 Feb 17, 2009 08:54 AM

        If you mean CI's Almost No-Knead Bread recipe, no. This has no yeast or rising time. Jacques mentioned that he'd played around with the idea after eating a similar bread at a Tibetan restaurant.

        Thanks for the specifics, bnemes.

        1. re: greygarious
          janetms383 RE: greygarious Feb 17, 2009 09:06 AM

          have you the recipe?

          1. re: greygarious
            paulj RE: greygarious Feb 19, 2009 12:51 PM

            I'm reminded a bit of American Indian fry bread, which is also simple flour, water and baking powder dough. While usually deep fat fried, it can be cooked on griddle, in which case it is called 'dry bread'. In that case it is more like a thick flour tortilla. His batter is a wetter than fry bread dough. I also found a recipe online for the Tibetan flatbread (Balep korkun), which uses 2c flour to 1c of water.

            The Tibetan version might be under salted by American tastes. Historically salt was a precious commodity, brought by yak trains over mountain passes. I've seen some low salt Italian bread recipes, which were, supposedly, a response to the high cost of salt in days when governments taxed it or held a monopoly on its production and sale. I believe in the Italian case they compensated for the salt by using herbs like rosemary.

            In south Texas they make a 'pan de campo', a country bread, which is a like a big biscuit baked in a fry pan or dutch oven. Bannock is another name for this style of bread.

            1. re: paulj
              janetms383 RE: paulj Feb 19, 2009 03:39 PM

              I was thinking that also Paul, but the recipe I have for Navajo Fry Bread uses powdered dry milk.

          2. re: janetms383
            janetms383 RE: janetms383 Feb 23, 2009 06:13 PM

            I tried this tonight and was really disappointed!! I used 1 1/.2 c flour, 1 cup water and - no offense to anyone, but based on comments, 1 t baking pwd 1/2 t salt and 2 T olive oil. I mixed in rosemary, oregano and garlic. I think it needed more salt, but the texture when it was baked was really kind of gummy. Too much olive oil?? I also did not have a stiff batter, more like thick pancake batter.

            Any suggstions? I need to find a computer to watch the video.

            1. re: janetms383
              Karen_Schaffer RE: janetms383 Feb 23, 2009 08:56 PM

              I made it tonight and had the same results -- very gummy. We ate it anyhow, but it was weird. My first thought is that I should replace my baking powder, which I know is well over a year old (maybe 2 or 3 even). I also wonder if my one cup of water was a tablespoon or two generous. My dough was thick, but didn't seem quite as stiff as theirs in the video.

              I had a little problem getting the right heat setting too. I flipped it after 8 minutes, but it wasn't browned at all. I turned up the heat a tad and it browned nicely on the second side, then I flipped it again and browned the first side.

              However I really suspect the baking powder is the main culprit.

              1. re: Karen_Schaffer
                paulj RE: Karen_Schaffer Feb 23, 2009 09:03 PM

                No, I don't suspect the baking powder. You've used it for other things, haven't you?

                Baking temperature and time is more likely the problem. Before you go about blaming the baking powder, try it in something more conventional like pancakes or muffins, even biscuits.

                I don't think the batter is particularly sensitive to the flour to water ratio. It isn't as wet as pancakes, but not nearly so dry as biscuits. Also the fat proportion is fairly normal for pancakes, but much lower than for biscuits. And the baking manner is a hybrid as well - sort of a thick slow pancake, where as biscuits are done in a hot oven for 10 minutes.

                1. re: paulj
                  Karen_Schaffer RE: paulj Feb 23, 2009 09:44 PM

                  No, I seldom use baking powder which is why it's so old. I'm sure it's been at least a year, probably longer (I almost never make cookies, muffins, pancakes, biscuits, etc.). There was an article in Cook's Illustrated where they made biscuits with baking powder of varying ages, and they found a sharp dropoff in leavening power starting at 6 months.

                  I agree that the temperature was a problem, and I do think I had a little extra water. Time, maybe, though I gave it extra time which dried it out a little yet it still didn't achieved the fluffy texture that the video shows. I do suspect the old baking powder.

                  1. re: Karen_Schaffer
                    janetms383 RE: Karen_Schaffer Feb 23, 2009 10:25 PM

                    My baking powder was brand new!! I'm thinking maybe I didn't go with a high enough heat at the begining but I didn't want to burn. I did notice a lot of "oily properties". Was 2 T oil too much?

                    1. re: Karen_Schaffer
                      janetms383 RE: Karen_Schaffer Feb 23, 2009 10:28 PM

                      How was the salt?? I used 1/2 teaspoon, but even with rosemary, oregano and garlic, seemed like I could have use more salt....?

                  2. re: Karen_Schaffer
                    aravenel RE: Karen_Schaffer Feb 24, 2009 06:42 AM

                    The heat could be part of the problem. You'll need a blast of pretty high heat to get the bread to really rise before it starts to set.

                    Although I was fairly disappointed with this too.

                    1. re: aravenel
                      janetms383 RE: aravenel Feb 24, 2009 07:05 AM

                      I thought heat might have been the problem. Was texture your problem as well?

                      1. re: janetms383
                        aravenel RE: janetms383 Feb 24, 2009 10:32 AM

                        Yes. The first batch I made had a problem like yours--very dense and chewy. Cranking up the heat for the first few minutes helped this.

                        Still not really to my liking, but it was much better.

              2. todao RE: bnemes3343 Feb 17, 2009 09:08 AM



                23 Replies
                1. re: todao
                  janetms383 RE: todao Feb 17, 2009 09:16 AM

                  Thanks todao, but I can't get into youtube at work.... and home is dialup so way too slow. Anyone with a printed recipe, or maybe can relay it to me??

                  1. re: janetms383
                    bnemes3343 RE: janetms383 Feb 17, 2009 09:30 AM

                    Expand all of the replies. I have the recipe in one of my responses. It's incredibly simple and quick and, with the addition of some interesting ingredients, very good. 20 minutes start to finish

                    1. re: bnemes3343
                      janetms383 RE: bnemes3343 Feb 17, 2009 09:43 AM

                      From your original post....

                      1 1/2 cups of flour, 1 cup of water, salt to taste and 1/4 tsp of baking soda (or was it powder?) and some olive oil. Then cooked it covered in a non-stick pan coated with olive oil with a tablespoon or two of water poured around the edges.

                      So,. baking powder or baking soda and how much olive oil? Is it all mixed into a batter and then more olive oil in the pan? A covered skillet? How long to bake? Is it on the stove top?

                      1. re: janetms383
                        bnemes3343 RE: janetms383 Feb 17, 2009 10:03 AM

                        To clarify: Yes, 10". After putting the batter in the pan, he put a couple of tablespoons of water around the edges and covered it.. Medium high heat. It is 1 1/2 cups flour, 1 cup water, 1/4 tsp baking powder, salt to taste, about 2 tbs of olive oil and then whatever you want to add. All your suggestions sound great. It definitely needs something other than just the basic recipe.

                        1. re: bnemes3343
                          janetms383 RE: bnemes3343 Feb 17, 2009 10:12 AM

                          thanks so much!

                          1. re: janetms383
                            greygarious RE: janetms383 Feb 17, 2009 10:23 AM

                            I think that if adding cheese, I'd put in half the batter - it's thick and had to be leveled with a spatula - then the cheese covered with the rest of the batter, so as not to burn it when the bread is flipped over.

                            1. re: greygarious
                              janetms383 RE: greygarious Feb 17, 2009 11:07 AM

                              you wouldn't mix the cheese in? I was thinking rosemary, oregano, and parmesan

                              1. re: janetms383
                                greygarious RE: janetms383 Feb 17, 2009 12:17 PM

                                With the med-high heat, I think cheese on either surface might burn. This is a flatbread.

                          2. re: bnemes3343
                            paulj RE: bnemes3343 Feb 19, 2009 12:22 PM

                            Judging from pancake and biscuit recipes I think the 'salt to taste' should be 1/2 tsp, possibly a bit more if it is supposed to be savory.

                            1. re: bnemes3343
                              paulj RE: bnemes3343 Feb 19, 2009 12:33 PM

                              I think JP said a teaspoon of baking powder, which is typical for this amount of flour.

                              1. re: paulj
                                Ora RE: paulj Feb 19, 2009 07:29 PM

                                Jacques did say ONE tsp baking powder. And he added a healthy amount of salt--about 1/2 tsp, I'd guess.

                                1. re: Ora
                                  bnemes3343 RE: Ora Feb 20, 2009 10:27 AM

                                  No Jacues used 1/4 tsp of baking powder. I have it DVR'd and reviewed it again.

                                  1. re: bnemes3343
                                    mr99203 RE: bnemes3343 Feb 22, 2009 06:51 PM

                                    I just watched it twice and I hear 1 tsp salt.

                                    1. re: mr99203
                                      paulj RE: mr99203 Feb 22, 2009 07:00 PM

                                      I think you mean 1 tsp of baking powder (not salt). The salt was added as a large pinch.

                                    2. re: bnemes3343
                                      Ora RE: bnemes3343 Feb 28, 2009 04:32 PM

                                      He quite clearly said 1 tsp BAKING POWDER. This blogger got the recipe 100% correctly: http://kahakaikitchen.blogspot.com/20...

                                      1. re: Ora
                                        auntbyte RE: Ora Apr 20, 2009 02:03 PM

                                        Kids!! Settle down back there! Don't make me pull over.

                                        1. re: Ora
                                          janetms383 RE: Ora Apr 20, 2009 02:39 PM

                                          doesn't matter if he said one tsp or 1/4 tsp, when you watch the video, the SIZE of the spoon is clearly 1 teaspoon

                                          1. re: janetms383
                                            paulj RE: janetms383 Apr 22, 2009 08:54 PM

                                            The recipe in the corresponding cookbook calls for 1 tsp of baking powder, 1/3 tsp salt (for 1 1/2c flour)

                          3. re: todao
                            chef chicklet RE: todao Feb 17, 2009 02:21 PM

                            Thanks so much for that link! I am making that bread, a little drizzle of garlic butter and some tomatoe/basil salsa....sounds like a plan to me!

                            I enjoyed the entire video, I just love his cookling so much and I forget about him.

                            1. re: chef chicklet
                              Val RE: chef chicklet Feb 19, 2009 08:23 AM

                              I watched the video and was shocked that he did it on the stovetop! Wouldn't it be just like a pancake??? CC, did you try it?

                              1. re: Val
                                chef chicklet RE: Val Feb 19, 2009 01:07 PM

                                No not yet, and I don't think so especially using the lid and steam. Perhaps it'll be like an Indian bread? He calls it Tibetin bread (it sounds like).

                                But you know what? It looks EXACTLY like this awesome bread called scoozi bread that's served as an appetizer at a couple of restaurants here. It's a thicker soft flat bread that has a some blue cheese in it and with it they'll have a basil, tomato, red onion salsa with olive oil and balsamic. Totally delicious.

                                I want to try it tonight or tomorrow. I'll be going for 7 mins per side 10 inch pan with a lid. Did you happen to watch him make the salmon burgers on arugula? I can't wait to make that one as well.

                                1. re: chef chicklet
                                  Val RE: chef chicklet Feb 19, 2009 02:42 PM

                                  yeah, you're right..pancakes do not involve lids and steam...hmmm...well...will be interesting to hear your report. Yes, I did also watch the salmon burger part; they looked great!

                                2. re: Val
                                  bnemes3343 RE: Val Feb 20, 2009 10:28 AM

                                  Yes, and on the 3rd attempt, with the addition of some fresh Rosemary and garlic, it was fantastic. The family loved it. WIth a few tbs of olive oil in the batter, doesn't even require butter.

                            2. danhole RE: bnemes3343 Feb 19, 2009 01:23 PM

                              Was this the old Fast Food My Way or the new More Fast Food My Way?

                              1 Reply
                              1. re: danhole
                                paulj RE: danhole Feb 19, 2009 03:22 PM


                              2. Rmis32 RE: bnemes3343 Feb 19, 2009 07:11 PM

                                Watch entire programs of "More Fast Food My Way"

                                1. todao RE: bnemes3343 Feb 19, 2009 08:22 PM

                                  I made some for lunch. Did a 50/50 mix on the olive oil by combining it with 50% butter and sprinkled a few herbs into the batter before introducing it to the fry pan. The most enjoyable part of the process was flipping it successfully - I get a rush when I get that right.
                                  I found that baking it for the initial time on one side and less time on the second side (as Pepin suggested) it worked better flipping it every five minutes to get it more evenly browned. I also found that his recommendation for "medium - medium/high heat may have worked fine with his gas stove but my electric range didn't have to work that hard and I got better results at medium/low.

                                  1 Reply
                                  1. re: todao
                                    paulj RE: todao Feb 19, 2009 09:17 PM

                                    I had some problems with sticking since I used my hard anodized dutch oven rather than nonstick pan. The baked texture was somewhere between a pancake and biscuit. The wetness of the dough was between the two as well.

                                  2. chef chicklet RE: bnemes3343 Feb 20, 2009 06:19 AM

                                    Jacques bread has me really curious. If you search the internet, recipes for this Tibetan bread is more a dough, not a batter as you see on his utube video. For this I kept wondering what Val mentioned about it being like a pancake? Here is another bread that I've wanted to make for sometime,and it is made from a dough.
                                    I am so curious as to what the consistency of JP's bread is like, I wouldn't want a pancake, but more of a bread. For those of you that have made his bread, is there a stretch to the dough? Or is it cakey like cornbread?

                                    1. a
                                      aravenel RE: bnemes3343 Feb 20, 2009 06:42 AM

                                      Made this bread last night. Note that it is ONE TEASPOON of baking powder. Also, you'll need a fair amount of heat, at least at first, in order to get the bread to puff up. Turn it down a bit afterward so you dont burn it.

                                      Even with the added baking powder and heat, I wasn't terribly impressed with this. It was quite dense and chewy. I know it's a quick bread, but it just wasn't what I was looking for. I don't imagine I'll be making this much. I was hoping to be able to cut it in half and use for sandwiches, but it didnt work out that way.

                                      Did anyone else get a better texture?

                                      5 Replies
                                      1. re: aravenel
                                        greygarious RE: aravenel Feb 20, 2009 06:56 AM

                                        On the show, daughter Claudine was stirring it up, clearly needing a lot of elbow grease to do so. It was a very thick batter. Keeping in mind that Pepin's source was Tibetan cuisine, I'd expect the bread to be sturdy; it is intended to serve as a vehicle for getting stewed dishes to the mouth and sopping up juices. I haven't made it yet but will do so when next I cook something appropriate for it to accompany (in that episode, they made lamb curry).

                                        1. re: greygarious
                                          paulj RE: greygarious Feb 20, 2009 07:26 AM

                                          With 1 1/2c flour, 1c liquid, the dough is too soft to handle. It has to be poured into the pan, and then spread out with a spatula. The proportions are the same as for spatzle (a quick German noodle), except spatzle uses eggs for part of the liquid.

                                          When I made it last night, I served it with a pork stew. It was well in that role, sopping up the liquid etc. It's not thin enough (at least if made in a 10" pan) to serve as a scoop.

                                          1. re: paulj
                                            chef chicklet RE: paulj Feb 20, 2009 07:35 AM

                                            I was going to say, that batter looked to be very much like the spaetzle batter I make. If it's good and works as a quick bread that's all that matters. I will still try it, your stew sounds like a good place to use it.

                                        2. re: aravenel
                                          bnemes3343 RE: aravenel Feb 20, 2009 10:31 AM

                                          It is definitely NOT 1 tsp of baking powder. It is 1/4 tsp, as per the show I DVR'd and have watched a couple of times. And as per this thread, the bread needs some help from the addition of herbs or garlic or cheese (or all three). And as others have said, it is probably best served with a dish where you can use the bread to sop up the flavors of the the stew or whatever.

                                          1. re: bnemes3343
                                            aravenel RE: bnemes3343 Feb 23, 2009 07:33 AM

                                            I just watched it again, and it's definitely 1 full teaspoon of baking powder. To check, I made it twice, once with 1/4 tsp, and once with a full teaspoon. The one with the 1/4 tsp came out dense and almost inedible; the one with a full tsp puffed up fine.

                                        3. chef chicklet RE: bnemes3343 Feb 20, 2009 07:32 AM

                                          I don't mean to be negative about chef pepin's bread, but this is what I think he might of been trying to achieve.

                                          9 Replies
                                          1. re: chef chicklet
                                            Canthespam RE: chef chicklet Feb 21, 2009 11:11 AM

                                            For those of you who have actually made it - is it 1/4 teas. or 1 teas. baking powder. I can't tell from the video and I want to make it.


                                            1. re: Canthespam
                                              paulj RE: Canthespam Feb 21, 2009 11:35 AM

                                              I made it with 1 tsp, and had no problems that I would attribute to that amount. I had problems with sticking, but that was due to the choice of pan. 1 tsp is typical for this amount of flour. I don't know how different it would be with just 1/4.

                                              1. re: paulj
                                                chef chicklet RE: paulj Feb 21, 2009 01:15 PM

                                                So what's the baking powder for if you're using all purpose flour? wonder if you even need it.

                                                1. re: chef chicklet
                                                  Caitlin McGrath RE: chef chicklet Feb 21, 2009 02:03 PM

                                                  The baking powder is the only leavening; without it the bread would be tough and flat(ter).

                                                  1. re: Caitlin McGrath
                                                    chef chicklet RE: Caitlin McGrath Feb 21, 2009 04:07 PM

                                                    Yes I know that it does that, but doesn't it need some time to deveop to do what you say? I mean he dumps about 2 cups of batter into a 10 inch fry pan it really doesn't have a chance to rise. I mean given the cooking time and all. From the video or instructions I never saw that they let the batter rest, or anything, just saying.

                                                    1. re: chef chicklet
                                                      Caitlin McGrath RE: chef chicklet Feb 21, 2009 04:46 PM

                                                      Nope, baking powder-raised things do not need to rest. Double-acting baking powder's first reaction begins when it's combined with liquid, and its second reaction begins with the heat of the oven (or in this case, covered pan, which simulates a hot oven). If you think about it, even pancakes get a little spring via baking powder in their few minutes in the pan, no rest necessary. And if you make muffins, quick breads, and other things leavened with baking powder, you mix the batter and put it straight into the oven. Thisbread works on the same principle.

                                                      1. re: Caitlin McGrath
                                                        paulj RE: Caitlin McGrath Feb 21, 2009 05:31 PM

                                                        Some batters are best with a rest period. On this video Claudine asks about letting it rest. If it is not a yeast bread (which needs one or more rising periods), the purpose of resting is usually to let the flour hydrate (absorb the liquid) fully, and to relax any gluten that developed during mixing. Such as rest period is typical of a crepe batter, which does not have baking powder or soda.

                                                        If the batter just has baking soda, it needs to be baked right away, since it starts to react with the acid immediately upon mixing. With double acting baking powder there is more leeway. Some muffin batters can be fridgerated and used latter.

                                                        I wonder what the original Tibetan bread used. Letting batter sit overnight or longer was a common way of letting wild yeast grow and develop a sponge. Ethiopian injera and south Indian idli are two such breads (besides the more familiar sourdough).

                                                        1. re: paulj
                                                          Caitlin McGrath RE: paulj Feb 21, 2009 07:30 PM

                                                          Right, I was answering Chef Chicklet's question, which was, doesn't the batter need to rest for the leavening action to work. Resting may accomplish some end in various batters, depending on the ingredients, cooking method, and desired texture, but they don't need to rest for the purposes of leavening, the way yeast and fermented doughs do. As you say, some baking powder-leavened doughs can be stored, but they don't *need* the wait.

                                              2. re: Canthespam
                                                GSM RE: Canthespam Feb 21, 2009 11:37 AM

                                                In the youtube video, he clearly says a teaspoon of baking powder.

                                            2. n
                                              neverlate RE: bnemes3343 Feb 23, 2009 12:52 PM

                                              I made this last night, using 3/4 teaspoon baking soda, and 50% AP flour and 50% Spelt flour. I added lots of chopped scallions and fresh dill, lots. The batter was pretty wet so I didn't add any additional water to the frying pan. I was very pleased with the results -- I served it with smoked salmon. Had friends over for dinner and to watch Academy Awards.

                                              1. g
                                                gavtan1 RE: bnemes3343 Jul 26, 2009 11:57 AM

                                                He used 1 tsp powder. He is actually interrupted in the program and just says "baking" so it confused me for so long but looking back it is clearly a powder not a soda container.
                                                It's on YouTube if anyone wants to watch it again - searc for bread flip 221 pepin to locate it.
                                                Happy baking - stove top!

                                                1. greygarious RE: bnemes3343 Jul 27, 2009 07:39 PM

                                                  I made this tonight for the first time (1 tsp bp) because it doesn't heat up the kitchen for a long time. I used half AP flour and half white whole wheat, and added cheese powder (the orange stuff) and granulated shallot, about a tbsp of each. Turned out well - for those who haven't tried it, I'd say the finished product is similar in taste and texture to Chinese scallion pancakes, but thicker. Next time I'll wilt some scallions and add them to the batter. I don't think it cooks long enough to use raw scallion.

                                                  1. y
                                                    yeppomonkey RE: bnemes3343 May 7, 2010 10:22 PM

                                                    I am late to this discussion. But here is a link for a Tibetan bread recipe, but it requires the bread to rest for 15-20 min after cutting it into portions. http://blog.tylerbell.net/2007/11/01/...

                                                    1. p
                                                      prozac9457 RE: bnemes3343 Jul 11, 2010 05:51 PM

                                                      The key is to use good quality flour, taste the batter for salt content, and heat the 10 inch skillet properly with the oil... bread is easy when you know what you're doing, but it's easy to overlook the simple things that will mess it up... DO NOT over mix... just barely bring it together, if you think it's not quite mixed than you might have over mixed it... if you use a GOOD skillet and it is hot, the heat will be equally distributed and it will not burn, but keep your nose on alert! you must add those few tablespoons of water to properly steam the bread... seems like a little detail, but very important.... and when making the dough, consider that humidity effects the moisture of the flour, so if the flour has been exposed add less water than you think you might need... but DONT OVER MIX... you'll end up with a crappy salty pancake!

                                                      1. Hank Hanover RE: bnemes3343 Jul 13, 2010 11:26 AM

                                                        Here is a link to JP's recipe and a picture of same. http://www.eattoblog.com/jacques-pepi...

                                                        It looks similar but not quite like Indian (native American kind) fry bread. Without a doubt, it would be quick.

                                                        Cook's Illustrated's "almost no knead" bread is easy and more tradtional but takes a lot longer including a rise time.


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