595905 Fri Feb 13 09:05:59 -0800 2009 125 1 San Francisco Bay Area 0 4414130 Over on MB's blog he posted about his work on the upcoming Chron Top 100 list to be published April 5th. He's soliciting input on that post, but I figure it might be fun to open up the discussion here. His blog post is here: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=26&entry_id=35795 Last year's Top 100 is here: http://www.sfgate.com/food/top100/ So what restaurants do you think deserve to be added to the list? And for each one you add, which would you eliminate? Fri Feb 13 09:05:59 -0800 2009 261092 BernalKC 1 4414314 Perhaps subtracting MB would help? (j/k...sorta) Seriously, the list or editing needs some refreshing. It's getting a little stale and is as predictable as MB's taste (cute waiter, full bar, mid-range, continential palette, new twist, slab of meat option). It will be interesting to see how the list approaches things in a very down year. Fri Feb 13 09:56:25 -0800 2009 4414130 27275 ML8000 2 4414332 You just made my morning. Fri Feb 13 09:59:20 -0800 2009 4414314 10133 wally 1 4414347 Rubicon closed and Silks' chef left, so that's two down. He wants to cut a total of 20. Bo's, Jai Yun, Swan Oyster Depot, and Vik's can go, since they don't serve cocktails or have good wine lists. BarbersQ's an easy cull, the barbecue's really disappointing. The lard-fried chicken is worth the drive to Napa, but that's only one day a week. Bauer's pretty much obliged to give the first opening to the Dining Room at the Ritz, since he dropped it from the top 100 by mistake based on the presumption that Ron Siegel and most of his team would leave to take over the Myth space. He pretty much has to add Dry Creek Kitchen, Erna's Elderberry House, Madrona Manor, and the Restaurant at Meadowood, too, since they're the only 3.5-star places not already on the list. http://blogs.sfweekly.com/foodie/lauriston/ Fri Feb 13 10:02:31 -0800 2009 4414130 11369 Robert Lauriston 2 4415281 I don't think he has to add Erna's, since it's not in the San Francisco region. How about dropping One Market? Yeah, it's not bad, but I think of it as basically an expense-account FiDi restaurant without much soul or personality. Very 15 years ago. Fri Feb 13 13:56:54 -0800 2009 4414347 10159 Ruth Lafler 3 4603232 I'd have to agree on One Market--funny cause I don't think I've been there in 15 years--I actually didn't even realize it was still around... Thu Apr 16 20:57:44 -0700 2009 4415281 25251 hankstramm 1 4415108 I'd add Fish in Sausalito and Corso in Berkeley. I don't recall either having particularly hot waiters though so the chances of displacing Chow are maybe not so good. Fri Feb 13 13:13:20 -0800 2009 4414130 25310 Chuckles the Clone 2 4415156 I find the food at Fish good, but not destination worthy, and on a price adjusted basis it isn't worth it. On top of that, the wine list is both bad and ridiculously overpriced, for example a bottle of Vinho Verde that retails for $6 is on the list for $26. Other general comments on the list: Ton Kiang: I just don't see the point. The food is not that good. The obligatory nod to SF Dim Sum is already filled in by Yank Sing, and Koi Palace is also on the list, so Ton Kiang could really be dropped. The Matterhorn: this hasn't been on my radar for years. Is it any good? Is this a pity nod to fondue? Chow: it gets two slots for Lafayette and San Francisco. Are they different enough to each deserve a spot? Does this model of food (freshly prepared, generally organic, adequately tasty, easy, fairly cheap, NOT earth shaking) really need a place in a top 100 restaurants list? I love Chow for mornings when I want to have breakfast/lunch and read a newspaper somewhere where it doesn't involve me cooking, and I can't make up my mind what I want, since it has a vast menu of generally well-prepared food. But it's not a destination restaurant by any stretch. Fri Feb 13 13:27:26 -0800 2009 4415108 17221 SteveG 3 4415218 MB gave himself some wiggle room by counting Chow and Chez Panisse only once each in 2008. Here's the list of all 100: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/food/top100/2008cuisine Fri Feb 13 13:41:49 -0800 2009 4415156 11369 Robert Lauriston 3 4416943 Hmmm, good point, re Fish. I only eat there towards the end of 40-50 mile bike rides so 1. technically, at least for me, it is a destination 2. I'm hungry enough to eat shoeleather and pay anything for it 3. even thinking about looking at the wine list is not on the menu But crazy wine markup really grates me the wrong way. OK, I withdraw that suggestion. Sat Feb 14 08:27:36 -0800 2009 4415156 25310 Chuckles the Clone 1 4415201 I see Camino and The Moss Room added with Coco500 leaving. Fri Feb 13 13:37:46 -0800 2009 4414130 11277 Paul H 1 4417012 It's time to make space for new blood in that Top 100 list, so I'd drop the following places because their food is not up to par: Betelnut, Cafe Majestic, Chow (Lafayette & SF), Cucina, Farmhouse Inn & Restaurant, Fonda, Jai Yun, Nick's Cove, O Chame, Pesce, Poleng Lounge, Pizzaiolo, Swan Oyster Depot, Shanghai 1930, Silks, Terzo, The Matterhorn Swiss Restaurant, and Vik's Chaat Corner. Sat Feb 14 08:59:45 -0800 2009 4414130 235904 L C 2 4430101 Pizzaiolo must remain in there if the love for the A16 family continues. It's way better. Wed Feb 18 16:21:50 -0800 2009 4417012 86371 The Gourmet Pig 1 4417077 I would add Gitane. As for Chow - I think they do a great job for delivery quality at that price point.. If this was a quality price ratio listing I'd give them high marks and add Small She Flat Breads in Mill Valley to the list. But for a straight top 100, don't think they belong on the same list as places like Coi. Sat Feb 14 09:26:14 -0800 2009 4414130 10924 Trevallon 2 4417084 But Bauer has said that it's not a straight top 100 -- that he goes for a mix of styles and price points. Which I think is appropriate. Sat Feb 14 09:28:45 -0800 2009 4417077 10159 Ruth Lafler 1 4417138 Don't they basically have to add their top 10 openings for 2008? It's problematic, since you get places like Poleng in 2007 which was fresh but maybe in retrospect not in the same league as more consistent, higher end offerings. They have gotten better about squeezing in the top Bargain Bites, not just La Taqueria. But it's not like they can afford to go re-review everything in the Bay Area in six weeks--it's drawn primarily from the previous year of reviews, plus a few new places (Zinnia, etc.). Erna's has never been on the Chron list. Madrona's more likely because it was reviewed this past year. Chow has hot waiters? Sat Feb 14 09:53:39 -0800 2009 4414130 10966 Windy 1 4417397 Bauer claims he tries "to assemble restaurants that reflect the region's diversity and includes a wide range of prices, cuisines and locations ... to create a list you can use for all of your dining needs." If he seriously wanted to do that, he'd need to expand the list to 200 and include many of the places on the Bargain Bites list. In reality, last year he included only a token handful of less expensive places on the 2008 list: BarbersQ, Bo's, Chow, Swan Oyster Depot, Tartine Bakery (expensive for a cafe), and Vik's ... did I miss any? No Mexican ((he dropped La Taqueria from last year's list), no Thai, no Ethiopian, no Korean, no Chinese or Vietnamese except the expense-account places. Rationalizing some of that, he said, "some cuisines, such as Thai, are not represented. That's because the once-breakout Asian cuisine has been homogenized, with most places serving safe, interchangeable collections of dishes." True, but that's no excuse for ignoring Thai House Express. Moreover, the same is true about American, California, Italian, and Japanese places, which account for more than half his 100. http://blogs.sfweekly.com/foodie/lauriston/ Sat Feb 14 12:05:16 -0800 2009 4414130 11369 Robert Lauriston 2 4417515 > did I miss any? Dosa. More or less. Is Vik's still scheduled for an April move? That could be enough confusion to drop it for a year. No reason I can think of, except "it's always been there", for La Taqueria to return. Taco trucks are a moving target, so to speak, so it's impossible to pick out a single one; but it might be interesting to collectively include the entire International Blvd lonchera scene. Sat Feb 14 13:10:20 -0800 2009 4417397 25310 Chuckles the Clone 1 4418920 Add: Bar Tartine and TWO. Replacing: One Market, Range, Firefly, or Foreign Cinema Not that there's anything wrong with the latter set, but the former are at least the equal of all of them. And Yoshi's really shouldn't be on the list. It's good. It's a great surprise to find a decent meal at a music venue. But it's not top-100 great and sortof seems like putting it on the list is pandering to redevelopment interests. Sun Feb 15 08:00:45 -0800 2009 4414130 25310 Chuckles the Clone 1 4419157 Call me psychic, but I'm guessing Bistro Jeanty will be off the list. Because he is going for diversity and Matterhorn is the only Swiss game, it will stay there by default because it looks interesting on paper. However, that list really needs to reflect the true Bay area dining scene and it is badly skewered. Seriously one Vietnamese restaurant and it is upscale, Californiazied at that. Come on, let's throw Saigon Sandwich on that list and give the tourists an experience. There not even a category for Mexican and the entire Latin American scene is represented by Fonda? What about Poc Chuc ...it would be nice to keep a worthy little business by mentioning it in a list so the slaves to that list would walk in ... and maybe open eyes that Mexican is more than burritos. Didn't the Chronicle drop covering South Bay Places? Which would take Plumed Horse off the list ... and Manressa if they want to stick to their guns about it. My guess is Va di Vi is just there so that area isn't neglected and sadly that might be the best of the area in terms of upscale. Hasn't Bay Wolfe's day come and gone? I'd replace One Market with 1500 Hyde. Better and not a chain. Flora ... seriously? Does Town Hall need to be on that list? Greens? Cafe Gratitude would be better ... and kill a number of list requirements since it is located in the North and East Bay as well. I'd put Woodhouse in the seafood category and remove Hog Island. No Canteen? What about that Italian joint that susaninsf and other hounds like so much La something that begins with C. As much as I like Murray Circle, I hope it doesn't make the list due to constant reports of service issues. They need to get it together. It is long past time and the mismangement is ruining it for some excellent talent in the kitchen. I agree though with the idea of a top 200 list. Or open it up Top 100 SF only and Top 100 in the rest of the Bay Area. As a 100 list it is too ambitious and squeezes out some good restaurants and even cuisines and puts some average at best categories in there. With the bad economy it would be nice to expand the list and throw a little business to very good restaurants that might fall under the radar ... then again, with this economy, maybe the list in 2010 won't be so hard to put together ... finding 100 might be a challenge Sun Feb 15 09:43:12 -0800 2009 4414130 10264 rworange 2 4419209 The Italian (Sardinian, actually) place is La Ciccia, and yes, I"ve thought for several years that it should be on the list....heck, even if the food and service weren't great, which I think they are (it is my favorite restaurant in SF for a reason) I think it would deserve a spot for the wine list. I totally agree with your comments on Bay Wolf, and Flora, though I may have to give Flora another chance one of these days ( will probably never go back to Bay Wolf)...and while I happen to like One Market (maybe I am the only hound who does, but I've always had a weak spot for Bradley Ogen) and don't think it is in any way comparable to 1550 Hyde (totally different styles, vibe, price range, etc), after my recent excellent meal at 1550 Hyde I definitely agree that it deserves a spot on the list. Sun Feb 15 10:07:14 -0800 2009 4419157 10158 susancinsf 3 4419262 Why won't you go back to Bay Wolf? Sun Feb 15 10:25:44 -0800 2009 4419209 17872 sydthekyd 4 4419454 My two most recent meals there consisted of boring, so-so, and in some cases, poorly execued food, that was far from cheap .Too many other better places to eat.... Sun Feb 15 11:45:51 -0800 2009 4419262 10158 susancinsf 5 4578581 My last two meals at Bay Wolf were disappointing, too - sad, because that place holds a lot of memories for me. Wed Apr 08 11:34:49 -0700 2009 4419454 17220 Claudette 3 4572530 Has La Ciccia never been on the Top 100? Mon Apr 06 13:47:13 -0700 2009 4419209 10157 farmersdaughter 4 4572546 No. Bauer didn't like it all that much. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/07/16/CMGDOIM8HR1.DTL Mon Apr 06 13:50:59 -0700 2009 4572530 11369 Robert Lauriston 5 4576107 It's funny, because you wouldn't know he didn't like it from the review. He seemed to love the food, except for desserts. He loved the "passion" and the warmth of the chef/owners. He didn't like the room, and he gave it 1.5 stars for "atmosphere" -- that, and the lack of cocktails (nevermind the great, reasonably priced wine list) and cute gay waiters, seems to have been what doomed La Ciccia. Which explains why it's beloved of chowhounds, who don't care (much) about such things. Maybe if La Ciccia got a signature cocktail and some Jonathan Adler plates it would zoom up the rankings. Tue Apr 07 13:50:31 -0700 2009 4572546 10159 Ruth Lafler 2 4419280 > Hasn't Bay Wolfe's day come and gone? Definitely. The good chef left years ago, opened another place, ran it, closed it, and vanished. > Flora ... seriously? Pandering to redevelopment interests. Though the real Pioneer Award over there should go to Luka's. Even though you can't reliably go there and expect it to not be a cover-charge-hip-hop-nightspot. At least on weekends. Sun Feb 15 10:31:22 -0800 2009 4419157 25310 Chuckles the Clone 3 4419359 Michael Wild's been chef of Bay Wolf for at least 20 years. Who was chef before that? Sun Feb 15 11:01:14 -0800 2009 4419280 11369 Robert Lauriston 4 4419380 Maybe I'm confused. Who was the guy running Olivia? Sun Feb 15 11:14:05 -0800 2009 4419359 25310 Chuckles the Clone 5 4419550 The guy at Olivia was *a* chef at Bay Wolf (as is the guy who runs Pappo in Alameda) but not *the* chef. Sun Feb 15 12:35:23 -0800 2009 4419380 10159 Ruth Lafler 4 4419399 I believe he celebrated 30 years in 2005. Has anyone eaten there recently? I never see it mentioned. Or if it is, it's just in passing. Sun Feb 15 11:23:52 -0800 2009 4419359 11231 Glencora 5 4419572 My last dinner at BayWolf (maybe 3-4 years ago?) was good, there are just at least 20 other places in the same price range with food I like better, e.g. in that neighborhood Cesar and Dopo. Beyond that, my main complaints were the limited selection of French wines and the lack of a cheese course, both of which seemed wrong for a place with such a Frenchy menu. http://blogs.sfweekly.com/foodie/lauriston/ Sun Feb 15 12:45:17 -0800 2009 4419399 11369 Robert Lauriston 2 4420533 "Flora . . . seriously?" Are you kidding? We ate there for the first time last night and it was fantastic. Everything we had was delicious. It's a bit loud, but not racketish. Why is Flora a joke, rwo? Sun Feb 15 20:03:49 -0800 2009 4419157 10245 oakjoan 3 4421585 I like Flora a lot, but Wood Tavern has a similar concept but with more exciting food and consistently excellent service. http://blogs.sfweekly.com/foodie/lauriston/ Mon Feb 16 09:20:43 -0800 2009 4420533 11369 Robert Lauriston 4 4426637 Dear RL: We tried to get a res at Wood Tavern for 4 at 8 p.m. This was a month before the date. Nothing 'til 9. Do they have a communal table? I usually boycott restaurants that don't have reservations available for weeks and weeks. I thought the food at Flora was terrific, but I have no idea if they ever change the menu. The service at Flora was also great,but then I've only been there one time. Maybe we starstruck because we saw Willie Brown there. He was complaining about the rain because he had to get across the street. He came over to our table and said he'd decided to stay inside Flora until the rain stopped. I told him the last time I'd seen him was at Le Central at lunch about 6 years ago. I'm sure he was impressed. Tue Feb 17 16:52:43 -0800 2009 4421585 10245 oakjoan 5 4427033 Wood Tavern is very small (probably 1/3 of the size of Flora), which is why they book up so far in advance. But I've never had to wait that long for a table, I think they're just busier on weekend nights (and whenever Bauer sings their praises, a table gets harder to get). Keep trying, though, it's a great place. Tue Feb 17 18:47:31 -0800 2009 4426637 13525 JasmineG 5 4428433 No communal table, no room for one in that space. There's full service at the bar. Did you phone? I suspect they black out peak hours on opentable. I usually walk in for a late lunch. The only time I've gone for dinner was a winemaker event they did with Farmstead Cheeses & Wines in Alameda. Wed Feb 18 09:16:00 -0800 2009 4426637 11369 Robert Lauriston 6 4428534 From what I can tell, dinner walkins are only seated at the bar. At least, that's the policy as related by the hostessperson when we walked in and waited for 90 minutes before getting a bar seat. The bar stools are not terribly comfortable so calling first is recommended. Wed Feb 18 09:37:45 -0800 2009 4428433 25310 Chuckles the Clone 7 4430754 Dinner walk-ins aren't only seated at the bar, just most of the time. I've walked in and gotten lucky and gotten a table, but most of the time all of the tables are reserved, so I think that only happens when they have a cancellation or no show, or just a happy accident. Wed Feb 18 19:55:42 -0800 2009 4428534 13525 JasmineG 2 4578653 Canteen's still on the top 100. Manresa's the only restaurant south of Mountain View, but Bauer gives it four stars, it is arguably the best restaurant in the area, if you can afford the tab it's worth a drive and a night in a hotel, and it's closer to SF than the French Laundry. Bauer relegates places like Saigon Sandwich and Poc-Chuc to staff reviewers and puts them on the paper's Bargain Bites list: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/listings/bargainbites/2008list I think that list is considerably more authoritative and comprehensive at the low end than Bauer's top 100 is at the high end. That's partly because the reviewers have better palates, more Chowhound-type sensibilities, and don't get distracted by drapes, cocktails, and service, and partly because they don't cut the list down to an arbitrary number (currently it has 112). Wed Apr 08 11:54:51 -0700 2009 4419157 11369 Robert Lauriston 1 4419667 i would drop greens in a heartbeat. cafe majestic is on the bubble. Sun Feb 15 13:37:56 -0800 2009 4414130 10627 steve h. 2 4514124 I think Cafe Majestic is safe -- Bauer gave it a very positive review in January and included the chef in the recent list of "rising star" chefs. Tue Mar 17 14:34:03 -0700 2009 4419667 10159 Ruth Lafler 3 4562466 Cafe Majestic closed suddenly. Too late for Bauer to drop it from the Top 100, assuming he included it. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/mbauer/detail?blogid=26&entry_id=37850 Thu Apr 02 16:14:26 -0700 2009 4514124 11369 Robert Lauriston 4 4562579 Wow. That's shocking since I just had a great meal at Cafe Majestic this weekend. I guess I should be glad I got in under the wire! Thu Apr 02 16:53:27 -0700 2009 4562466 10159 Ruth Lafler 1 4420010 On this rainy Sunday I had a bit of time to look at this issue at some length. These are the restaurants I think will be dropped from the top 100: Bistro Jeanty Buckeye Roadhouse Cav Coco500 Firefly Foreign Cinema Greens Hog Island Oyster Co. Jai Yun Kaygetsu Matterhorn Swiss Nick's Cove O Izakaya Pesce Swan Oyster Depot Tartine Bakery Town Hall These will be added: Auberge du Soliel Beretta Camino Chez Papa Restro Chez T.J. Cortez Dining Room at the Ritz Carlton Gitane Jack Falstaff Madrona Manor Moss Room Murray Circle Nettie's Crab Shack Restaurant at Meadowood Willi's Wine Bar (Santa Rosa) Willi's Seafood and Raw Bar (Healdsburg) (probably not, but should be added) Sun Feb 15 16:19:33 -0800 2009 4414130 11277 Paul H 2 4511015 I completely disagree on Camino. Underseasoned salad and main course. When you're only offering 3 choices per course, they should be special. None of ours (there were 3 of us so we tasted most of the menu) was worth writing up. The desserts were terrific. But I am put off by the too-precious attitude (c'mon, church chairs? not comfortable. My guest couldn't order a diet soda. What does it take to keep some beverage selection.) If this makes the top 100 I will be seriously shocked. Mon Mar 16 17:13:57 -0700 2009 4420010 10081 goingoutagain 3 4511056 Prepare yourself. Mon Mar 16 17:27:17 -0700 2009 4511015 11277 Paul H 3 4511116 I won't be surprised if Camino doesn't make the list, since Bauer liked the food and atmosphere but said the service didn't quite measure up. Foodish industrial products like diet soda and decaffeinated coffee are contrary to their slow-food vision. People who find that sort of thing pretentious should probably skip it. Mon Mar 16 17:41:26 -0700 2009 4511015 11369 Robert Lauriston 4 4546208 I'll accept pretension happily if the food is terrific. It wasn't. Sat Mar 28 08:51:56 -0700 2009 4511116 10081 goingoutagain 5 4546486 Different strokes. Bauer highlighted the divisiveness of the restaurant's style in his review ("... the type of restaurant that will elicit strong reactions, both negative and positive ... I have friends who love Camino, and others who complain about the small portions, the prices and the limited selections."), and followed up with a blog post, "A restaurant that's not for everyone," specifically on that issue. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/mbauer/detail?blogid=26&entry_id=29001 Sat Mar 28 11:04:59 -0700 2009 4546208 11369 Robert Lauriston 3 4511367 Camino will definitely make the list, MB loved it. I thought the food was bad and expensive, but I remarked to my dining companions when I left that I was sure that Bauer would love it, and lo, he did. Mon Mar 16 18:54:26 -0700 2009 4511015 13525 JasmineG 2 4566091 Without trying to get exact, I suspect you are the prediction "winner". In a quick scoring, out of 21 total changes, you predicted 5 of the drops and 13 of the adds. And you were the only one predicting Tartine bakery's defenestration! Congratulations! Unless someone wants to contest the award... Fri Apr 03 17:42:58 -0700 2009 4420010 261092 BernalKC 3 4566221 Thank you, I accept the award! I was about to check how I did, but you beat me to it! Fri Apr 03 18:35:56 -0700 2009 4566091 11277 Paul H 1 4420184 1300 On Fillmore...both for the food and the atmosphere Sun Feb 15 17:34:59 -0800 2009 4414130 17435 charlotteowens 1 4420697 Replace an A with a Z. A Cote is tired after my last experience there last week. Nothing stellar after about 5 different plates. Replace with Zuzu in Napa. It used to be on the list and fell off a few years back. Always a new surprise on the menu and better than when they first opened. Sun Feb 15 22:09:42 -0800 2009 4414130 86832 Dan Wodarcyk 1 4439421 Looks like Laiola is out: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/02/18/DD5K15R4T4.DTL Sat Feb 21 12:37:15 -0800 2009 4414130 11369 Robert Lauriston 2 4439498 pity. it was a lot of fun but things change and that's the way it goes. greens should be on the chopping block and cafe majestic on the bubble. just my $0.02. Sat Feb 21 13:02:52 -0800 2009 4439421 10627 steve h. 1 4439608 I truly hope that Camino in Oakland will NOT be included.I think I read that is on the James Beard award list - nominated that is. Sat Feb 21 13:53:53 -0800 2009 4414130 16559 zinfanatic 2 4439920 It's one of two local (if you count Yountville) nominees for best new restaurant. Seems well-deserved to me, though I can understand how some people don't like it. http://www.jamesbeard.org/files/2009_JBF_RESTAURANTCHEF_AWARD_SEMIFINALISTS.pdf Sat Feb 21 16:08:09 -0800 2009 4439608 11369 Robert Lauriston 2 4441553 Oh, I completely agree with you, because I had an awful meal there, but MB loves the place, and put it on his best new restaurant list, so I'm sure it will be included. Sun Feb 22 11:24:43 -0800 2009 4439608 13525 JasmineG 1 4514199 beretta needs to be added for sure. and how kiss seafood is not on the japanese section of the list is beyond me as well. Tue Mar 17 15:02:09 -0700 2009 4414130 262740 sk4sk4 1 4565991 The list is up: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/food/top100/2009cuisine My usual compilation of who's out and who's in: http://blogs.sfweekly.com/foodie/2009/04/michael_bauer_watch_the_chrons.php Fri Apr 03 17:07:36 -0700 2009 4414130 11369 Robert Lauriston 2 4566155 Wow, A Cote, Gary Danko, and Oliveto all out, those all surprise me. I'm glad Marzano made it in, I like that place. Fri Apr 03 18:09:44 -0700 2009 4565991 13525 JasmineG 3 4567209 Having done selections like that in other contexts, I think the deal is that the first 70-80 are easy and solid, and the last 20-30 are relatively arbitrary. The last 5-10, you're looking for any excuse to make a cut. Sat Apr 04 09:53:59 -0700 2009 4566155 11369 Robert Lauriston 4 4567362 Any insight as to how Greens is STILL on the list? I don't even really like Gary Danko, but I'm pretty sure it belongs there over Greens. Sat Apr 04 11:03:56 -0700 2009 4567209 44059 daveena 5 4567378 And why oh why does Matterhorn continue to be included??? Sat Apr 04 11:09:15 -0700 2009 4567362 11204 srr 6 4567714 And it's under the "German" heading. There is a "Swiss" heading and it is blank. Sat Apr 04 14:05:06 -0700 2009 4567378 16655 bdl 7 4575174 Like I mentioned earlier, it looks good for an additional cuisine category. It is the only game in the Bay Area as far as Swiss food. Here's Bauer's 1997 review ... though there are supposedly revisits each yeqr. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/1997/12/05/DD15138.DTL&type=food Frankly, it seems like one of those places that don't require a revisit ... same chef/owner ... same menu. We get occasional good reports about the place from tourists. At this point, though I've never had any desire to go, I'm thinking of trying it out just to see if it is any good. Besides ... where else can you get in the Bay Area ... (from Bauer's review) "three versions of beef fondue, including the most popular, Fondue Bourguignonne ($40 for two). The tender cubes of beef come with great sauteed potatoes and six sauces: paprika, tartar, mustard, horseradish, peppercorn and curry. They also come with seven condiments: cornichons, pickled onions, marinated mushrooms, artichoke hearts, spicy chopped olives, kiwi and pineapple." For all the people wondering why it is on the list ... have you ever been? P.S. the online version is currently correct. Danko is on it and Mattahorn is under Swiss Tue Apr 07 10:14:07 -0700 2009 4567714 10264 rworange 8 4575276 I've been to Matterhorn. It was fine, but I have no real desire to go again, and no, I don't get why it's on the list. The food is perfectly pleasant and pretty unmemorable, but it's a fun place for a group of people. Tue Apr 07 10:34:54 -0700 2009 4575174 13525 JasmineG 8 4575294 I ate at Matterhorn years ago. It was fun but I'd rather do fondue at home (we have a real Swiss caquelon and all). If I went back I'd try some of the other dishes. Bauer's right to go back every year. Restaurants often go downhill despite no change of owner, chef, and menu. House of Prime Rib, for example. It's too big a job for one person, though. Tue Apr 07 10:38:33 -0700 2009 4575174 11369 Robert Lauriston 9 4578733 I'd like to go back to HOPR to see if I think it has gone downhill since my last visit, which was years ago and very enjoyable. Sometimes though with places like that I wonder if it is the restaurant that has changed, or me. Wed Apr 08 12:12:32 -0700 2009 4575294 10158 susancinsf 10 4580073 I was at HOPR last November. Bad Idea. I had great memories of the place from 25-30 years ago, but what I will remember from now on are the 45-minute wait past our reservation time, the pallid columns of prime rib steaming on the Flash Gordon era carts with their crusts trimmed off, and the utterly tasteless beef. The salad was not bad, in a retro kind of way, but if it's true you can't go home again, HOPR is a good reason not to even want to try. Wed Apr 08 19:39:02 -0700 2009 4578733 14663 pilinut 4 4567854 Is Va de Vi really Asian? Sat Apr 04 15:14:00 -0700 2009 4567209 105235 wolfe 5 4571759 I'd say it's definitely asian influenced. Mon Apr 06 09:53:43 -0700 2009 4567854 43515 adrienne156 3 4567903 On the linked Ronn Owens show...both Ronn and Michael imply that Danko IS on the list. Sat Apr 04 16:21:38 -0700 2009 4566155 16655 bdl 1 4567959 Just got the print edition. Gary Danko is still on the list. Terzo is gone. Sat Apr 04 16:46:17 -0700 2009 4414130 239981 nocharge 2 4569100 Weird. Gary Danko's not on the online list. Sun Apr 05 09:40:19 -0700 2009 4567959 11369 Robert Lauriston 3 4569130 Maybe it's like one of those spy movies where they put out several false leads to see who is leaking the information. Sun Apr 05 09:55:24 -0700 2009 4569100 105235 wolfe 1 4569244 Here are updated in and out lists I compiled from the info on the Web site. 22 out, 21 in. Picco and Pizzeria Picco have two places on this year's list vs. one shared last year so that brings the total to 100. I'm going to get a print edition and see how it differs. OUT A Cote (Oakland) Bar Crudo Bistro Jeanty (Yountville) Bo's Barbecue (Lafayette) Cafe Majestic (closed) Cav Cucina (San Anselmo) Ducca Gary Danko (not in the online list; reportedly on the list in the print edition) Jai Yun Junnoon (Palo Alto) Laiola O Izakaya Oliveto (Oakland) Plumed Horse (Saratoga) Poleng Lounge Rubicon (closed) Shanghai 1930 Silks Slow Club Tartine Bakery Terzo IN Bar Jules Beretta Bottega Napa Valley (Yountville) Camino (Oakland) Chez Papa Resto Corso Trattoria Cortez Gialina Gitane House of Prime Rib Jack Falstaff Madrona Manor (Healdsburg) Marzano (Oakland) Moss Room Murray Circle (Sausalito) Nettie's Crab Shack Nopalito Restaurant at Meadowood (St. Helena) Sea Salt The Dining Room at the Ritz (left off last year's list by mistake) Willi's Wine Bar (Santa Rosa) Sun Apr 05 11:07:11 -0700 2009 4414130 11369 Robert Lauriston 2 4569634 Gary Danko's in the print edition but currently missing from the online edition. The online list still totals 100 restaurants because Picco and Pizzeria Picco are split into two entries. Sun Apr 05 14:58:45 -0700 2009 4569244 11369 Robert Lauriston 3 4569678 Is Cafe Majestic in the print edition? It closed after the edition went to press, I'd imagine, and it's surprising if he hadn't included it to begin with, given how much he (and others) have liked the work of the chef. Sun Apr 05 15:18:46 -0700 2009 4569634 13525 JasmineG 4 4569888 Cafe Majestic is not in the print edition. Sun Apr 05 16:36:02 -0700 2009 4569678 10074 Caitlin McGrath 4 4571363 No. He only gave it three stars overall, and two for service, which is bad for a restaurant in that price range. Mon Apr 06 08:21:07 -0700 2009 4569678 11369 Robert Lauriston 4 4576254 The chef left quite some time ago, and the Cafe eventually closed. Tue Apr 07 14:35:52 -0700 2009 4569678 18586 Zach Georgopoulos 5 4576271 The chef didn't leave quite some time ago, he was still there as of last week when it abruptly closed. Tue Apr 07 14:39:06 -0700 2009 4576254 13525 JasmineG 6 4576302 Not the Rising Star chef who got them the good reviews originally. Tue Apr 07 14:47:01 -0700 2009 4576271 18586 Zach Georgopoulos 7 4576357 Not according to Bauer's blog entry on it's closing: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/mbauer/detail?blogid=26&entry_id=37850 Tue Apr 07 15:00:40 -0700 2009 4576302 13525 JasmineG 7 4576371 Cafe Majestic closed around 2003 and reopened in 2007 under Ian Begg, who was named a 2008 "Rising Star" chef in 2008. He left, but it didn't close. They hired a new chef, Louis Maldonado, who was also named a 2009 "Rising Star" three weeks ago. Tue Apr 07 15:05:11 -0700 2009 4576302 11369 Robert Lauriston 8 4576414 Plus, Bauer gave Cafe Majestic under Maldonado an excellent review back in January. Tue Apr 07 15:18:25 -0700 2009 4576371 10159 Ruth Lafler 9 4576512 I stand corrected -- hadn't really followed what was going on there after Ian Begg left. Odd that they would close so soon after having their chef receive that type of notoriety. Tue Apr 07 15:52:04 -0700 2009 4576414 18586 Zach Georgopoulos 10 4578160 Per Ruth's recent report (apparently removed), they were still pretty empty. The timing of the closing suggests the owners might have learned they'd been dropped from Bauer's top 100 and decided to give up. Wed Apr 08 08:54:25 -0700 2009 4576512 11369 Robert Lauriston 11 4578428 Actually, that's not what I said in my report. When we were there, they were pretty full. But it was Saturday night. We were discussing the repeated failure of this restaurant, despite the generally positive reviews. I think there are a couple of factors. It's a bad location: a residential neighborhood, so there's no foot traffic. The parking is fairly difficult. And the decor, while lovely, is formal, and thus not conducive to young urban diners who like places with a livelier vibe where they can casually drop in. Wed Apr 08 10:48:06 -0700 2009 4578160 10159 Ruth Lafler 12 4578503 My bad. I must have been confusing it with a previous report. Wed Apr 08 11:12:47 -0700 2009 4578428 11369 Robert Lauriston 13 4578542 You're excused, since, as you noted, my report was removed (for reasons I understand). To get back to the food, I hope Louis Maldonado gets a new gig soon, and I'd love to know where the pastry chef (anyone got a name?) ends up. Wed Apr 08 11:22:44 -0700 2009 4578503 10159 Ruth Lafler 14 4608697 Louis Maldonado was the pastry chef and executive chef Sun Apr 19 08:23:07 -0700 2009 4578542 40858 youngone 15 4608917 The January review in the Chron said Cafe Majestic's pastry chef was Zoe Derring. Sun Apr 19 10:17:46 -0700 2009 4608697 11369 Robert Lauriston 16 4609953 Who left after the review and the chef assumed the position Sun Apr 19 18:21:08 -0700 2009 4608917 40858 youngone 1 4571646 Dropping Oliveto seems like a really bad call to me. By Bauer's own star ratings, it's better than 18 of the 21 places he added to this year's list. Its prices are lower than those at Acquerello, the only other Italian place he gives 3.5 stars. For the four other 3.5-star places that didn't make the list, I can see some rationale. Erna's Elderberry House is not in the Bay Area. Chez Panisse is on the list, so maybe Chez Panisse Cafe doesn't need to be on there, too. Silks and Dry Creek Kitchen (Healdsburg) got new chefs de cuisine late last year, and Bauer hasn't published updates since. And none of those places were on last year's list, either. Mon Apr 06 09:32:03 -0700 2009 4414130 11369 Robert Lauriston 2 4571690 Maybe there's a soon-to-be-published re-visit review. Mon Apr 06 09:40:16 -0700 2009 4571646 11277 Paul H 3 4571796 Could be, though I don't think anything has changed. Mon Apr 06 10:02:58 -0700 2009 4571690 11369 Robert Lauriston 4 4572027 sf.eater.com points out that the last detailed Bauer review of Olivetto was in January 1996. Possibly, things have changed since then. Mon Apr 06 11:07:19 -0700 2009 4571796 11277 Paul H 5 4572168 The last full review was 1996, but it's been on the top 100 every year since. Bauer says he revisits every restaurant on the top 100 when updating the list, so he thought they still merited 3.5 stars last year. Mon Apr 06 12:12:39 -0700 2009 4572027 11369 Robert Lauriston 2 4571772 That's why dropping Oliveto surprised me so much, it doesn't seem like the quality has dropped at all there, and it's certainly the kind of place that Bauer loves. Maybe he just wanted to add a few East Bay restaurants, and thought he needed to drop some too. Mon Apr 06 09:57:21 -0700 2009 4571646 13525 JasmineG 2 4572193 I suspect Bauer's decision was about the price / value, given his blog post about his meal there in January: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/mbauer/detail?blogid=26&entry_id=34194 But if he feels that way, he should publish an update, and knock off half a star from the overall rating. And he should update the price rating. He currently has it at $$$, which is "Expensive - $18 - $24." A non-vegetarian entree alone will set you back more than that. Mon Apr 06 12:19:05 -0700 2009 4571646 11369 Robert Lauriston 3 4572320 Perhaps it should be bumped up to the next category, but the Chronicle dollar ratings are based on average entree prices, not on meals. Mon Apr 06 12:47:27 -0700 2009 4572193 10074 Caitlin McGrath 4 4572383 Their average entree price is around $28-29. I wonder how Bauer rates prices at places without entrees? Mon Apr 06 13:05:30 -0700 2009 4572320 11369 Robert Lauriston 1 4572385 Two stars and on the list: Vik's - one of the two remaining token cheap places along with Chow Swan Oyster Depot - niche place, a perennial House of Prime Rib - this I don't get. Bauer knocked it off the list in 2007 after a 2-star review. He's had reasonably warm words for the place since, but no full re-review, so it's a shock to see it back. (Never been, so I have no real opinion about how good the place is.) 2.5 stars, expensive and on the list: Town Hall - still clinging on Bar Jules - a surprise. Bauer gave it a decent but not great review last year (complaining about portion sizes, which from him is usually the kiss of death in terms of making the 100). A horrible year for Asian food on the list, down from 17 to 12, with no new additions. 3 Chinese (Jai Yun and Shanghai 1930 cut), 4 Japanese counting O Chame (O Izakaya cut), 1 Southeast Asian = Slanted Door, 3 Indian (Junnoon cut), 1 "Asian" = Betelnut (Poleng Lounge got the chop). I thought Heaven's Dog might've had half a chance (cocktails, cocktails, cocktails...) Mon Apr 06 13:05:51 -0700 2009 4414130 101674 bradluen 2 4572419 Bauer says in his top 100 blurb on HOPR (not online yet, I guess) that the owner "redoubled his efforts" and redecorated, and implies that the service and food have improved. Mon Apr 06 13:16:23 -0700 2009 4572385 11369 Robert Lauriston 2 4572649 I agree with your last point, especially in regards to Japanese and sushi in particular. I suppose O Chame deserves it but I'm on the fence with them. Sushi Ran, probably, but what about Sakae in Burlingame or Sushi Sam's (San Mateo) and possible even Sebo. Bauer rarely writes about strictly sushi places, so I'm not all that surprised. Mon Apr 06 14:49:47 -0700 2009 4572385 86832 Dan Wodarcyk 2 4575251 Even though Vik's is cheap, it really needs to get the boot. Just ate there a few weeks ago and it was sadly disappointing. The people we were with said that there are much better places in Fremont and Sunnyvale for cheap chaat. And Green's also needs to be off. I just ate there yesterday for brunch and it was also underwhelming, and overpriced for the quality of the food. Tue Apr 07 10:31:41 -0700 2009 4572385 256526 hmruthi 1 4576308 I'm kind of surprised Aqua is still on the list -- I find it to be somewhat old and tired nowadays... Tue Apr 07 14:48:00 -0700 2009 4414130 18586 Zach Georgopoulos 2 4576467 Aqua old and tired??? How about Bay Wolf, Swan Oyster Depot, Zuni, Greens, Viks Chaat Corner, Matterhorn Swiss, and Chez Panisse? Tue Apr 07 15:35:58 -0700 2009 4576308 11277 Paul H 3 4576491 Aqua was old and tired years ago. It would take A LOT to make me go back. Zuni at least has tasty food and no attitude and is not a sort of chain. Yeah, it is part of a restaurant group, but Aqua makes me think that my meals are being planned by someone in a board room. I'm sorry, they have been so nasty to me on two visits, I hope they go down. I won't miss them. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. There won't be a thrid time unless I see overwhelming enthusiastic reports. I don't appreciate ass-kissing in a restaurant. However, I do expect respect as a customer. Neither happened on two visits to Aqua. The food on both visits was not so wonderful to make up for attitude. Tue Apr 07 15:44:37 -0700 2009 4576467 10264 rworange 4 4578178 Zuni has never been part of a group. http://www.zunicafe.com/history.html Wed Apr 08 09:01:24 -0700 2009 4576491 11369 Robert Lauriston 5 4580491 Ba.dly worded sentence. I was talking about Aqua. Thu Apr 09 00:36:02 -0700 2009 4578178 10264 rworange 6 4580632 Chez Panisse is part of a group, no? Thu Apr 09 05:17:16 -0700 2009 4580491 11277 Paul H 7 4580976 Yes if you count Chez Panisse Upstairs, Chez Panisse Downstairs and Cafe Fanny as a group. Thu Apr 09 08:19:54 -0700 2009 4580632 105235 wolfe 8 4581907 Legally, despite two kitchens and mostly separate staff, Chez Panisse is a single restaurant, owned by Pagnol et Cie Inc., of which Alice Waters is the CEO and president. Cafe Fanny is owned by Le Barbocce Inc. I believe the principal is her brother-in-law, Jim Maser, of Picante. I'm not sure if anyone besides Alice Waters has an interest in both. Thu Apr 09 12:08:17 -0700 2009 4580976 11369 Robert Lauriston 9 4581923 It was a joke Robert but thanks for the illumination. Thu Apr 09 12:13:06 -0700 2009 4581907 105235 wolfe 5 4602239 Zuni + Hotel Biron = mini group ;-) ----------------------- Edited to correct the mistake: Hotel Biron has no connection to Zuni. I thought it was an expansion to make wine & cheese sourcing more efficient, but it's just owned by a former Zuni cook/chef. Thu Apr 16 13:53:28 -0700 2009 4578178 17221 SteveG 3 4576519 Yes, those too. Although Swan and Viks are what they are -- nobody expects them to keep up with the times. Bauer really needs to make way on the list for younger blood. On the other hand, maybe he gives these places brownie points for their staying power... Tue Apr 07 15:54:18 -0700 2009 4576467 18586 Zach Georgopoulos 4 4576656 I must say I don't have much confidence in an evaluation that includes Swan as one of 100 best "restaurants". I lived in Polk gulch years ago and enjoyed Swan 3-4 times a week. It has great cold seafood, lukewarm soup...but it is a retail seafood market that serves food uncomfortably. The are many good restaurants in the City that have fresh seafood, and serve it comfortably. People who think Swan is the only place...sad. Tue Apr 07 16:50:49 -0700 2009 4576519 12274 OldTimer 1 4578859 They keep revising the "By Cuisine" list. They've got The Matterhorn under Swiss and Aziza under Moroccan, and deleted the German and African headings. Picco / Pizzeria Picco are now under a California-Italian heading, which would as reasonably apply to at least half the restaurants under Italian. Wed Apr 08 12:41:30 -0700 2009 4414130 11369 Robert Lauriston 1 4601847 Drop Betelnut, add Lers Ros. Drop Ton Kiang, add Great China. Drop Marzano, add Oliveto. Drop Bar Bambino, add the Oakland branch of Cesar. Drop Va de Vi, add A Cote. Drop BarbersQ, add Ohgane. (Though BarbersQ is still worth the Sunday drive to Napa for lard-fried chicken.) Thu Apr 16 11:57:43 -0700 2009 4414130 11369 Robert Lauriston 2 4603155 I agree with this assessment. I cannot believe Marzano made this list over Oliveto. . .the pizza dough at Marzano borders on inedible and the "ambiance" is non-existent. Ah, well. . next years list will be quite interesting with all the new restaurants that have either already opened or are slated to open. I am thinking things will change quite a bit. Thu Apr 16 20:25:39 -0700 2009 4601847 169526 pastryqueen