Sunset Bar and Grill

[kubasd]

I'll be in town next week for the Extreme Beer Festival, and we were thinking of adding a visit to Sunset Bar and Grill. Their food menu is extensive as well, which makes me leery (Cheesecake factory anyone?) Has anyone been there and have any recommendations? Thanks.

[sfumato]

Perhaps irrelevant, but I've always judged a place by the cheese that they use, and the fact that they put real (and good) cheddar on their cheese fries has always said something to me. No fake cheese here! Come to think of it, the actual fries are usually really good, too. Then again, I have a thing for cheese fries that was started by a high-school-love of Snuffer's in Dallas. Mmmm.

Anyway, I also think their beers are quite good, and being a hard cider lover myself, I appreciate that they usually have a good selection of ciders- more than the usual (and somewhat boring) Woodchuck and Magner's.

[Pete Lyons]

I finally gave the place a try yesterday and I liked it a lot. The nachos were very tasty. Every beer I tasted was good and clean with nothing that hinted at dirty taps. The bartender was a beer guy who had no problems discussing the qualities of various brews and making suggestion for brews we might like given our initial orders. Quiet a few of the kegs on the menu were dry however the bar keep said it was a busy weekend.

[MaineRed]

Sunset is worth going in for apps I guess, but be forewarned that they will be out of ~25% of the draught list--have 3-5 backup choices ready.

Deep Ellum has a great beer list, only OK food.

Publick House has the best Belgium beer list in town and a good list of domestic draugh microbrews. However, my favorite bartender is no longer there and we don't go after 6 on most nights because of the crowds (sigh). They open at 4 on the weekend.

The Roadhouse (same owners, just up the street) has a phenomenal domestic microbrew list, only OK food and amazingly disinterested bartenders (sigh).

The Independent isn't worth a detour (only ~5 better than average taps).

Redbones (BBQ), Cambridge Common, and Cambridge Brewing Company (Will is doing some great things there) are all worthy stops if you happen to be in the 'hood.

[kubasd]

Thanks for all the great info guys, and for the record.... I am a girl, lol. I just have a guy's taste in beer. I think we're hitting up Publick house and deep ellum, with maybe sunset if we make it out of the hotel earlier (it will be a rough morning, methinks).

FWIW, I definitely drink my guinness at about 55 degrees, I'll order the next one when i start my first so that it has time to warm up a little

[Allstonian]

In defense of the food at Deep Ellum, I want to mention that Barmy and I enjoyed a couple of really excellent bugers there last night, as well as a fine order of fried calamari. The "Carribean Sweet" chicken tenders were somewhat disappointing - I had assumed that since they were offerend as a subcategory of "Hot Damn Wings" that they would be BOTH sweet and hot, but they were not much of either. However, they were very good chicken tenders, nicely cooked. Next time we'll go with the original hot style. Our beers were excellent, as always, and I was interested to spot Thalia Zedek enjoying a quick pint at the bar.

[MC Slim JB]

How is Thalia? There was a period of years where every time I ate at Charlie's in Kenmore Square before / after a show at The Rat, she always seemed to be at the next table.

Worth noting amidst all the beer-geekery is the fact that cocktail geeks can get theirs at Deep Ellum, too, an unusual combination.

[Harp00n]

I aspire to be a triple-threat geek and many say I've achieve it.

Harp

[BarmyFotheringayPhipps]

I have argued in at least one other thread that the bartenders at Deep Ellum are the most conscientious -- in terms of ingredients, glassware, presentation, etc. -- in Boston, without getting nearly as precious about it as a place like Drink can. It's that last part that's important to me. Between us, we drank two pilsners, a barleywine (Allstonian) and my beloved Gritty's Blackfly stout (me), all of which were served in exactly the right glassware at exactly the right temperature, but --crucially -- there was no fuss made over any of this.

It's the lack of fuss that does it for me. And I gotta say, after a really pretty rough opening and a long period where I decided I just wasn't gonna go back because it wasn't working out for me, Deep Ellum has found its groove. It now is what I wanted it to be when it opened: our local, serving great drinks and good food in a really comfortable atmosphere. (Musical accompaniment last night was a very good Joe Strummer and the Mescaleros CD.) It's the sort of place where on a slow weeknight in summer, we could take a couple paperbacks or a Scrabble board and linger over a back table on the deck enjoying a few drinks.

Although I still think they should put a chicken fried steak on the menu. And maybe take a page from Cambridge Common and throw some tater tots on the appetizer menu. Preferably with the outstanding roasted red pepper sauce that's served alongside the calamari.

Thalia looked great, particularly considering that she looked distinctly unhealthy the last time I saw her around.

[jgg13]

If it wasn't for your use of "our local", you'd have sold me on giving it another chance. If it wasn't local to you, would you still venture over there? I find that DE is just enough of a hassle for me to get to that it was never very worth it (not to mention that I was the one who liked it hte most among my friends, which makes it even harder to talk folks into going out there).

[Allstonian]

Depends - what haven't you liked about it?

[jgg13]

- Too crowded, although I suspect the back porch will help - particularly when the students aren't around

- Food was "meh" at best

- Prices seemed a bit high (but the other two were really the key).

I was the only one in my group that had any desire to want to like it, so a few experiences of having to squeeze in like a sardine (if at all) and being served mediocre food led to me not having any pull in getting people across the river to hit it up.

[BarmyFotheringayPhipps]

I'm surprised that you found it crowded and studenty, since one of the main things I love about the place is that it's never either of those things: my assumption is that the combination of the high drink prices and the deliberate lack of sops to the appletini and Guinness crowd keeps the fratty crowd away. On the other hand, we don't go there on weekend nights, so that may be it.

[Allstonian]

Fair enough on all three counts, and all of those are pretty much the same reasons we gave up on Deep Ellum for a long while, after a few visits when it first opened, even though we live fairly close by.

But we really liked the folks that worked there, and the music, and the general vibe, and I pass the place twice a day on my bus ride to and from work, so when I noticed the deck out back last summer, I was intrigued. One day when my boss closed the office early, Barmy and I decided to meet for drinks and a snack and were pleasantly surprised to find that things had changed for the better.

We do make it a point to try to go during "off" times - a little early, generally not on a weekend night, and so on. And the prices are still a bit higher than I would like (although last night we had two appetizers, two burgers both with cheese and bacon added, and a total of four beers, and the tab came to just over $60, which seemed entirely reasonable.)

So it's still up to you - I see your point that it's not really in your neighborhood, but if you did happen to find yourself nearby for some reason I'd suggest you give them another try.

[jgg13]

Don't get me wrong, I definitely want(ed?) to like it. The gf & I have mentioned trying to find off times for us to hit it up, thinking that if it looks worthy that perhaps we can get more folks over there more regularly. Of course, the gf & I say that about a lot of places and never seem to manage to get it done :)

Thanks for the info though, if nothing else it puts DE back on my mental radar.

[jgg13]

BTW, just happened to think that I might be able to talk some folks into going on Friday evening. Do any of you folks who go regularly have an idea how slammed it gets on Fridays? Is getting table space for 3-4 folks possible (if it's just 2 of us, bar is fine but ...)

Also, looking at their brunch list makes me want to get over there sooner rather than later for the brunch. Might be a while before I can get over there on a Sunday though.

[BarmyFotheringayPhipps]

It's a fair question: i tend to make a mental distinction (that I don't always express here) between "local" restaurants and "destination" restaurants. Unfortunately, this isn't really one I can answer, because I've always had a hard and fast rule against frequenting bars that I can't walk home from. (This always surprises my friends -- for I am, as a British friend once dubbed me, A Man Mountain -- but I drink like a girl scout, and am notably buzzed after a single drink, and completely legless if I have more than two.) If I had to drive to Deep Ellum, or even if it required a multi-leg trip on the T, I would never go there, period. But that's my mishegas, not theirs.

[jgg13]

Gotcha. Do you know if there's a planned start date for the porch, or is it just "when it gets warmer"? That might be enough of a change (plus the more positive reports from folks as yourself) to get another visit together.

[BarmyFotheringayPhipps]

I don't know, because they built the porch mid-summer of last year, so it didn't really have a "start date" as such. Figure they'll have it reopened by Memorial Day weekend, I guess.

It's a *really* nice porch, too.

[jgg13]

Cool. If I haven't made it back over there (and even if I have), I'll definitely make a point of checking it out for the porch. I've gone past there a couple of times and it looked pretty nice but haven't been out there personally.

[ScubaSteve]

they lost the two trees over the deck to the construction next door.

[ScubaSteve]

i drive to DE almost weekly from Haverhill.

[tboom29]

Sunset and Publick House, and the new Road House, down the st from TPH, are all worth a stop for beer geeks. It does depend on what time you go as to the crowd, as these are popular places, especially after EBF. I have seen TPH not serve people on beer fest weekends after the festivals, and for good reason, so maybe don't try to go to a place after the fest.

I'll second Cambridge Brewing as well, it's the best in local beer Boston has to offer. Deep Ellum also is a personal favorite.

[nickls]

I think Sunset is worth a stop for a beer or two. Publick House is now on my "won't be going back there anytime soon" list. When I went last weekend it was ridiculously overcrowded with obnoxious college kids, way overpriced, and generally not worth it. I would only suggest going to PH during off-peak times and only to try a beer or two that are hard to find. I like Redbones and CBC for good beer as well, although Redbones also suffers from crowding, and CBC is a bit light on good food options. Maybe the new incarnation of the B-Side will be the new place to go when looking for great beer?

[LStaff]

The apps are fine if you are looking for some bar snacks, but have never been really satisfied with any sandwiches or entrees there.

As far as the beer is considered, even if the lines are in good shape and if you happen upon a fresh keg, it is kept soooo cold that it seems to dull the flavors of the beer - even after the beer warms up, it just seems watery , bland, and undercarbonated (even when requesting a non-frosted glass). Ater many attempts of trying to get a quality beer on tap or bottle and failing I gave up on the place.

[Harp00n]

Hey LStaff,
It never ceases to amaze me when bar staff haven't a clue and don't inquire when ordering a micro-brew, January or July, if you want a frosted glass. They seem to think that they're doing you a favor, not connecting that you didn't ask for lawnmower beer. I used to be more tolerant and drink it after advising the barkeep of the faux pas before the next round is poured. No more, I send it right back at 'em. I've even had a frosty pint of Guinness placed in front of me with a self-satisfied smiley face standing behind it. WTF! While I think of it, with all those changes in the works, how are things shaping up at Watch City these day?

Harp

BTW, more places than not serve their Irish stouts too cold regardless of the glassware.

[AHan]

This is a hotly debated topic. I always thought only slightly cool for Guiness, but my friends from Ireland disagree and insist it should be cold. According to Guiness, when I looked it up, it is suggested to be served at 42 degrees or something like that.

[Harp00n]

Back from wilds of VT........
Controversy, hotly debated? Ummm, no! It's a generational revisionist thing really. As a rough dividing line, it's anyone in Ireland who's 40 or under that wants their Guinness to slide down icy cold like the U.S. Big 3 macro-brewers "products". With apologies to StriperGuy, here comes the beer geek in me. You are close on Guinness's "ideal temp", it's actually 42.8 degrees F. The Dirty Rotten Truth is that Budweiser out-sells Guinness in those demographics in Ireland and is far and away the biggest selling "lager" for all age groups period! Diageo, the parent company of Guinness, also has exclusive brewing and distribution rights of all A-B products in Ireland,.

Guinness in an attempt to halt thier sliding sales amongst the alcholpop drinking 40 and under crowd devised Guinness Extra Cold with an "ideal" temp of 35 degrees F. and delivered by the Cold Flow dispensers. The barkeeps love it because, and aside of the additional sale, the pour time is lessened with the lower temperature point. Many pubs don't have two systems for delivery of The Black Stuff so they simply split the difference on the temperature and wager that not too many patrons will notice or complain. The CEO of Diageo would rather kiss the Queen's Royal Arse in front of St. James Gate than underscore any those little factoids to the plane loads of Aer Lingus-riding McIrish-Americans "returning" to The Auld Sod. Go for a session at The Porterhouse Brewpub in Dublin, have their Plain or Oyster stouts and your hand won't be locked in an icy deathgrip as you leave.

Harp

[AHan]

Very informed. 42 is still cold though. Frosted glass aside, the "debate" I was referring to is more betweent the cold (42.8) vs the room temp/warm crowd.

[Harp00n]

Thanks AHan, and now I see where you were going with this.
As you are probably aware, "room temperature" is a confusing misnomer in the States. That "room", traditionally, was/is the cellar in the pubs of Great Britain & Ireland. The average cellar temps hover between 50-55 degrees. So we're not talking the 68-74 you'll normally find in a typical American household. I do prefer my stouts & British ales closer to those temps and will order the next round a bit early so it does have a chance to warm a bit. But if it came delivered in a chilled pint glass I'd be sitting, waiting with Carly Simon's "Anticipation" as a tape-loop running in my head.

Harp

[chickendhansak]

In many lesser pubs in England, Extra Cold has displaced the conventional Guinness Draught entirely.

But what about those new things that involve placing a can of the nitro-widget Guinness on a weird flat plate replete with Guinness branding, that then probably electronically agitates the beer before pouring. Weird. You can get it in Razzy's.

While I'm here, I was annoyed recently to overhear a very young liquor store employee tell a customer, who had asked for stout recommendations but said she didn't like Guinness, that "Guinness is the Budweiser of stouts; no-one who likes stout drinks Guinness". Good grief. Is this the adolescent "more hops, more ABV, more everything" micro-brew culture warping the perceptions of younger drinkers?

[jgg13]

I don't know that I'd call it the "budweiser of stouts", but it is completely possible to not like Guiness and enjoy the greater stout category, w/o succumbing to the "more hops, more ABV, more everything" culture.

I used to think that I didn't like stouts, then I discovered that what I didn't like dry stout. I also turn out to only sometimes like oatmeal stouts, which turned out to be the only other kind I'd tried. There are other stouts than those two categories though.

[Harp00n]

We're now in danger of getting these posts split to a separate Op but I'll combine and direct my reply to both of you if I may.

The first time I encountered Guinness Extra Cold was actually in Canterbury, Kent. I was walking down the main Disney thoroughfare in the Old City and slipped into an "Irish" pub that I'd spied. The publican when asked what exactly Extra Cold , being the only Guinness present, might be happily explained me right back out the door.

Regarding the weird science "flat plate" technology (?), I'd almost driven it completely out of my mind. That is, until now. So no thank you very much for reminding me of this Bizzaro World Guinness, lol.

"No-one who likes stout drinks Guinness." Good grief Charlie Brown or more correctly the oft' repeated Yogi Berra.; "It's so crowded, nobody goes there anymore!" applies.

My taste in Irish dry stouts fall roughly in this order;
O'Hara's Celtic (an Irish micro-brew), Beamish, Guinness & Murphy's

That doesn't mean I don't like Guinness because it and Beamish are a toss-up somedays and depending on how good the house pours. Murphy's is just too sweet, IMO.

The main stouts, in sales order, that I'm aware of are: Dry Irish, oatmeal, chocolate, oyster and that sickeningly sweet John Bull abomination known as milk stout.
If we get thown off this post it's been nice talking boyos.

Harp

[jgg13]

FWIW, the BJCP has the following categories:
Dry Stout
Sweet Stout
Oatmeal Stout
Foreign Extra Stout
American Stout
Russian Imperial Stout

I was actually surprised that 'milk stout' wasn't a category, but I'm guessing that falls under sweet stout.

Anyhoo, I tend to enjoy the sweeter stuff - imperials, sweet, milk, etc.

[Harp00n]

You are doubly correct oh stout-mouth, as sweet & milk are used as interchangeble.terms with chocolate actualy be called sweet when that's the referenced nomenclature. I should have been more clear but I was only referring to the Anglo scene :-0)

Harp

[StriperGuy]

Okay, you guys are way beer-nerding out.

I actually kind like the frosted mug thing myself. But then I'm not a beer nerd.

[fecalface]

And we haven't even gotten to the discussion of proper glassware yet - how temperature varies in pint v. imperial pint glasses, the travesty of false-bottomed pint glasses, how aroma is impacted by straight v. curved walled pint glasses, etc...

[StriperGuy]

False-bottomed pints suck... the rest I'll leave to the brewnerds...

[Harp00n]

Okay fecalface you reached my limits of geekyness, and we all have them. . I'm far more concerned with the temperature of the brew than the vessell it's delivered in. A mason jar or a Welch's grape juice glass is fine just so long a I can TASTE the damn stuff! Nice riff, BTW, and I am LMAO.

Harp

[StriperGuy]

You both take the beer nonsense WAY too seriously. The best beer is the one in front of me. The best temp, is the temp of the beer in front of me...

[AHan]

SG, I see your point, but I wouldn't criticize someone else's passion for their brew. They may not share your passions for particular foods but you would expect them to at least respect them. Beer is no different.

[StriperGuy]

In general I agree AHan.

It's the "if you drink, or serve me, IPA too cold you're an imbecile" tone I object to.

I honestly really do like a good bitter or IPA in a frosted glass. If you savor it long enough the beer opens up nicely as it gets to room temp. A few ice crystals in my beer, on a hot day, don't mind at all.

I also take my food wine and beer rather seriously, but I don't get my panties in a bunch when served a good Bordeaux in a cheap, or heaven forbid "incorrect" glass. The wine still tastes just fine.

[BarmyFotheringayPhipps]

Meh, there's room for both, in re: frosted/non-frosted. When I was in college, the TV and radio stations out of Amarillo always had enormously loud commercials for "Dennis The Price Menace," a liquor store whose proud slogan, endlessly repeated, was that they sold "hand-cramping cold" beer. There are times when that's appropriate, but those times don't involve a good stout.

[Harp00n]

Couldn't agree with you more, Barmy. Especially, when it's Hotter Than July, as Stevie Wonder says. After mowing the lawn, a softball game or kayaking I'll reached into the cooler and dredge a bottle or can out of the ice from the bottom with the best of them

Harp

[Harp00n]

And you have every right, swell of me I know, to make that choice. But what LStaff and I are saying is let us make that choice, don't assume..
You're beer nerd quotient may be nill but turn it around. What if you were having a special event evening of fine dining at, say, L'Espalier and you ordered a couple of big Bourdeauxs, Cabernets or Riojas for the table and the sommelier presented a bottle for your inspection with ice shards crashing to the table? Further, you ordered a magnum of their finest champagne as a surprise finish and they carted in the bottle bobbing in a bucket of baby's bath warm water in lieu of ice? I know that's an over the top scenario but fine beer & ales are not accorded anywhere near the same amount of respect in handling that they deserve. Beer nerd or wine nerd is simply the reverse sides of the same coin. We all may have different thresholds of nerdyness, just don't get too geeky in your enjoyment of either of them, IMO.

Harp

[foxspirit]

Very average food. I'd say go for the apps instead of the entrees. About 15 mins away and one town over in Brookline is Publick (may or may not be spelled right) House. Much better food. Great selection of microbrews. If you love beer its totally worth a visit. I warn you that on popular night like the weekened or Friday, its generally jam packed.

[CoryKatherine]

I second this post and add that you have Deep Ellum as well, both seem like better options to me than Sunset.

[fecalface]

I'd second passing on Sunset. I had a horrible experience with the hostess last weekend. Got quoted a 30 min wait, inquired at 40 mins how much longer it would be and was told 30-50 more minutes! Got fed up and went to Spike's down the street...

Overall, I'd rank beer bars as follows (based on food/beer/ambiance/service):
Pulibick House > Redbones > Deep Ellum > Sunset

Same order applies if just drinking, only because Redbones tends to have more 'extreme' beers in their rotation than Deep Ellum. Perhaps even the same order for food alone. I've had stale beers at Sunset recently.

Also, you may want to consider going to Cambridge Brewing Company if some of their higher-rated or creative beers are still on tap (ex: Barleywines), although the food is mediocre and overpriced.

[StriperGuy]

I personally think the Pizza at least at CBC is pretty good.

The food at Publick House the one time I went was totally lame, all 4 entrees.

[fecalface]

I know the PH food issue is hotly debated - didn't intend to open that can of worms. For me, the consensus points to sticking with the basic pub grub and one should enjoy the experience. That should keep the OP pleased enough given the well-chosen beer selection.

I'm a Beer Advocate, so I can relate to this guy's quest to hit up a few beer bars in a new destination. Publick House is a Boston landmark for beer nerds, so gotta keep it on the top of the list.

[chickendhansak]

I think The Independent deserves a place in that list, and Cambridge Common. Food is almost irrelevant to my view of the qualities of a boozer, though I normally like what they cook at PH when they're not busy. When they are, it can be a disaster. The Roadhouse opening seems to have improved matters there. I hadn't noticed Redbones being especially remarkable for draught beer, but that may be my oversight.

Nonetheless Sunset<->Deep Ellum is a decent mini pub-crawl.

[StriperGuy]

I'm on the defener side of this equation. Food is barfood, but some of it is done well. They have really done a much better job with the lines of late. Heck, you can always ask the bartender what is really fresh.

And they do have a darned amazing number of beers.

Haught cuisine, it's not, a refined place for the beer aficionado, perhaps not that either. But it has always been a decent joint with some very unusual beers.

[litchick]

Don't do it!

Head to the Publick House instead.

[Parsnipity]

I think Sunset's food is pretty mediocre, and I've found them to often be out of advertised beers and have to agree with the stale tap lines comment. You can search for my recent post on Deep Ellum and the disappointing dinner we had there, although their beer menu was good and the beers all tasted fresh. The Extreme beer fest is awesome (although the Belgian Fest in the fall is my favorite), but if it's still in the cyclorama, this won't exactly be convenient for you but Redbones in Davis Square, in my opinion, has the best quality beer consistently and although whether they're "the best" bbq is a matter of debate, their food is always good and a good value and goes well with beer.

[winstont]

I have to dissagree with some of the above posters- I have never had a stale beer at Sunset and love thier huge selection or draft and bottle options.

I also love thier nachoes, spinach and artichoke dip and have to add in the veggie burger as well (its great and homemade)

[AHan]

I'm with you. In general the food is fine. IMHO the nachos are great, steamburgers are good, and I had a fabulous shrimp po' boy a while back. Never had an issue with bad beer, but if you get a bad tap send the beer back, they have dozens and dozens of bottled varieties too. I actually think it SHOULD be one of your stops if you are here for a beer festival.
Note to Barmy: been going there off and on for 20+ years, was never a frat boy and never sported roofies. It's not a fern bar, so if that is what you want you are correct, but a lively environment is great sometimes.

[kubasd]

Thanks for your help guys, I'll definitely keep the food suggestions in mind, as I am a vegetarian. I saw about 50 beers there i wanted to try, so if I have a problem with one, I'm sure another will suffice. It'll probably be one of many stops that day, so we might give deep ellum a shot as well.

[Harp00n]

Hi kubasd,
I don't know where you're coming from or whether your staying overnight on Saturday in Boston. But if you are, and you're driving, I'd consider stopping off at the Horseshoe Pub in Hudson, MA for breakfast (8-12) on Sunday, if you've never been.The Shoe, at any given time, has a rotating selection of 75-80 brews on tap. They're one of the top ten beer bars in N.E., IMO. Here's a sample beer list; http://www.horseshoepub.com/beerlst.asp Access is fairly easy here, being about two mile from the I-495/290 junction. They keep their lines scrupulously clean and their food is certainly a notch or two above the Sunset's.

BTW, Barmy is definitely right about the "past" problems of dirt/stale beer in the lines at the Sunset. BoDubya may be right that the situation has been rectified "years ago" if that means more than two but less than three, which is the time-frame for my last multiple bad experiences there.

Harp

-----
The Horseshoe Pub
29 South St, Hudson, MA 01749

[Harp00n]

A clarirication may be in order on The Shoe's Sunday breakfast hours.
They don't have any dispensation from the state's Blue Laws. No alchoholic beverages may be servered before noon. However, if you hit the place for a late breakfast/early brunch dessert cocktails/brews will be available on the ship's fantail at 1200 hrs.sharp. That is all, over and out!

Harp

[PaulB]

If you are travelling to the EBF you must be a serious beer nerd (like myself); Deep Ellum is right up the street from Sunset and has higher quality food and beers. Maybe duck into Sunset for a beer and to scope it out. Enjoy your visit and the festival.

[SaraASR]

I actually love their nachos. Their spinach and artichoke "dip" (kind of like Mediterranean nachos) with hummus, spinach, artichoke, eggplant, cheese, and veggies are really good, too. That's about it though.

[BarmyFotheringayPhipps]

You might want to give it a miss entirely. Food is notoriously awful, they're legendary for having dirty and/or stale tap lines, and unless you're a frat boy with a pocket full of roofies, you're not gonna like the ambiance.

[BoDubya]

the tap lines at sunset are fine - the owner addressed the situation years ago. the apps are better than the entrees in my opinion. and you'll probably run into other exbf people there.