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best crab cake baltimore

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cakeguy Feb 4, 2009 04:35 PM

I recently had the best crab cake I have out in years. It was from Pappas on Taylor Avenue. Had them broiled and ate at home .delish. no filler. great crab flavor and not a bad value at $10 for 6 oz cake.

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    abovethewaves RE: cakeguy Feb 4, 2009 05:13 PM

    Captain Larrys on Fort Ave.

    It's either Tue. or Wed. that has half price sandwiches and platters until they sell out.

    Great fish sandwiches and fries too.

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      few RE: cakeguy Mar 14, 2009 06:49 PM

      I have been scouring the board and am surprised no native Baltimorians jumped on this

      I am interested in the answer to this - - heading there in 2 weeks to visit son @ college !

      2 Replies
      1. re: few
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        radioman18 RE: few Mar 17, 2009 11:04 AM

        One of the best crab cake dinners you are going to find is at Sly Horse Tavern in Crofton, MD. Can get a little pricey depending on the time of year, but give them a call first.

        1. re: few
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          crabjunky RE: few May 26, 2010 03:36 PM

          Here are my favorite crabcake spots: By The Docks in Essex, Pappas on Taylor Ave., and Dock of the Bay in Millers Island. In no particular order!!

          -----
          Dock of the Bay
          9025 Cuckold Point Rd, Sparrows Point, MD 21219

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          Langrrr RE: cakeguy Mar 18, 2009 07:51 AM

          - Faidley's at Lexington Market
          - G&M in Linthicum
          - The Narrows on Kent Narrows across the bridge on the Eastern Shore

          10 Replies
          1. re: Langrrr
            huiray RE: Langrrr Jun 15, 2011 12:49 PM

            I had the crab cake at Faidley's - meh. Nice but not something to rave about.
            Oh, BTW their Maryland Crab Soup was utterly nondescript - loads of veggies & tomatoes, barely any crab in it. I would call it veggie soup with a suggestion of crab flavor. I think they are riding on their past (way past) glories.

            The crab cakes at The Narrows on Kent Narrows were nice. Good stuff. Their oysters (Delaware Bay oysters) were not that tasty. Meh on the oysters, yes on the crab cakes.
            (I had 2 dozen Cape May Salts oysters in Cape May later that day, they were excellent and far far superior than the ones I had at The Narrows)

            1. re: huiray
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              bmorecupcake RE: huiray Jun 23, 2011 12:47 PM

              True Faidley's crab cake is just okay, but compared to 95% of other places, it is still much better. It's usually a gateway crab cake experience to start you on a journey of crab cake enlightenment. Some of the fried fish sandwiches at Faidley's are very good, though. Try those next time.

              1. re: huiray
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                Scott0 RE: huiray Jan 3, 2012 02:57 PM

                Griffins in Annapolis has "Malpeqe" oysers on the half shell. They are the best Ive ever had. Eating a fresh Malpeqe is like truly kissing the ocean. Anyone know of another place that has Malpeqe oysters? Now I'll give you a bit of a secret, once a month at the Grasonville Md. V.F.W,. on one sat. per month, "you'll have to call to find out which sat." Has the best fried oysters and the best oyster stew you'll probably ever try. $7 bucks a pint. The oysters stew is INCREDIBLE.....and always sells out first. The fried oysters sell out second. It begins at 11:30am and ends around3:30 pm. There will be a line out the door by noon. And the average wait is about 15 minutes to get get served.............but soooooooooooo well worth the wait.

                1. re: Scott0
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                  FoiGras RE: Scott0 Jan 3, 2012 04:36 PM

                  Dear ScottO--thought this thread was regarding crabcakes. But, I have to commend you for informing us with regards to oysters, since this is the Season. I love fried oysters--love them raw but won't eat them anymore on account of getting hepatitus (spelling?). Fried oysters can be amazing and I've had some of the best ones at Pappas on Ritchie Highway. Fantastic breading and plump oyster meat. But, will have to give it a go and try your recommendation. You seem passionate with your opinion. It's nice to see a different recommendation from the standard--with reagards to crabcakes--Faidleys.

                  which makes me question--why can't a local Baltimore area restaurant provide the Faidley's -like crabcakes? I can't believe that they are always voted best. I've had excellebt crabcakes at Pappas, Olive Grove, etc.. There is no miracle or mystery to making a great crabcake. I buy lump crab meat in season and add the various ingredients--sublime according to those who have eaten my balls of crabmeat. No scientific or magical invention. FoiGras

                  1. re: FoiGras
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                    Scott0 RE: FoiGras Jan 7, 2012 02:13 PM

                    Ummmmmmm Ok back to crabcakes. My dear FoiGras, I used to think also that there was no mystery to making a truly GREAT crabcake, I've changed my mind about that over the years. My way of making crabcakes also. I'd love input on this people but the 4 points of crabcake judgement seem to be,,,,,1) The quality of the meat itself, 2) The spicing. 3) The style of cooking. And last but certainly not least. 4) The filler/binder and ratio o fsaid filler/binder to the meat in said crabcake. Does this seem about right to everyone? That being said, All these restaurants like "Phillip's" That use Asian crabmeat, Why? Yes I know it's cheaper but there is a reason that the local population in asia is happy to sell us ALL of their crabmeat, THEY wont eat it, It has almost no flavor. Same with florida crabmeat. We in this region CAN tell the difference between our beloved summertime Bay crab and all others. Now to spicing,,,,,,I am convinced thaat the guy whom "invented" Old Bay seasoning was someone whom had traveled to asia/india and who came back and tried to recreate curry powder here. But without the availability and quality of the spices available "there" and what he came up with is Old Bay. My point is that now we do not have to rely on Old Bay as the dominant spice for crab. As far as cooking styles? Fried is always best to MY palate but hard to do correctly at home. This also adds texture that you just cannot compete with in a restaurant unless........ Just before broiling at 450 degree's you roll the crabcake in "Panko" bread crumbs and turn as needed in the oven. As to filler?........I use none.........I use a binder only...still a work in progress to perfect but for now I use..... For 1 Lb. crab I mix 1 egg yolk, 1/4 cup heavy whipping cream, and 1-1/2 Tblsp. cornstarch. Thats it. No bread or bread crumbs, or crackers.

                    1. re: Scott0
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                      FoiGras RE: Scott0 Jan 7, 2012 04:21 PM

                      ScottO--we Baltimoreans can't keep ourselves from referring back to the CRABCAKE. I am certainly impressed with what sounds as though an amazing crabcake that you personnally make. If not already--you should open a restaurant and feature your crabcakes--hey, isn't that the scenario of many local restaurants who proclaim to have the BEST CRABCAKE. It doesn't seem to matter what else is offered on their menu-just the CRABCAKE.

                      I can somewhat agree that fried crabcakes are the best--the way my Mom always made them in the late summer when we were able to purchase the real local lump crabmeat. Actually, come think of it-I believe my Mom's crabcakes weren't all about the lump crab meat. IN the summer months we ate our steamed crabs on Saturday nights--with Lawrence Welk on the tv in the background. the leftover crameat was picked and then on Sunday--oh yeah--crabcakes, fried green tomatoes, potato salad and cole slaw, along with corn on the cob. Those were great chowhound times.

                      I believe the Panko breading must be fantastic with the broiling method.. the best onion rings I've eaten are covered in Panko.

                      Thanks for your "recipe" and recommendations. Getting ready to chow down--alas--not crab nor oysster--veal francaise with pasta. FoiGras

                      1. re: FoiGras
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                        Scott0 RE: FoiGras Jan 7, 2012 06:04 PM

                        And of course all this is subjective, specifically to each palate with it's own memory of days past. Hee hee..........I am just seeking as many here a basic truth that we can all use here. A great crabcake. And a place to get it that is true. I havnt yet found this place, nor a recipe, that always fullfills that itch for what I know exists but is yet so elusive. Thus the quest continues. Tommorrow I'll go back to "The Narrows" and have a talk with the Chef before ordering a crabcake and relate what I've read here this week, Hopefully I'll be one step closer to answering my 47 year quest.

                      2. re: Scott0
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                        hon RE: Scott0 Jan 10, 2012 10:59 AM

                        The inventor of "Old Bay" was a pickling spice maker

                        http://www.saveur.com/article/Kitchen...

                        1. re: Scott0
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                          4X4 RE: Scott0 Jan 13, 2012 12:39 PM

                          No mayonaise in your binder? Awesome! I hate mayo. I hate it so much that I rarely eat crab cakes, even though I usually can't taste the mayo in it. I'll have to try your recipe next summer.

                      3. re: Scott0
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                        AsperGirl RE: Scott0 Jan 6, 2012 06:59 AM

                        I used to get Malpeque oysters at the raw bar in Black's in Bethesda. But that was years ago. I don't know what their selection is lately. Thank you for the oyster recs!

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                    Hue RE: cakeguy Mar 18, 2009 10:41 AM

                    In no partucliar order
                    Faidley's Lexington Market
                    Pappas on Joppa Rd
                    Koco's on Harford Rd
                    Gunnings of Rte 100 at Coca Cola Drive

                    2 Replies
                    1. re: Hue
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                      hon RE: Hue Mar 23, 2009 06:25 AM

                      Pappas is on Taylor Avenue

                      1. re: Hue
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                        layne123 RE: Hue Oct 20, 2011 08:00 AM

                        I visited Koco's during hurricane Irene. The crab cakes are huge with no filler and the wait staff are great. I must say that I still prefer Faidley's over Coco's for overall flavor - they taste like the ones my Mom used to make, yet I'd go to Coco's again just to be able to sit down and enjoy the crabcakes. I don't like standing while I eat.

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                        fannie RE: cakeguy Mar 19, 2009 01:00 PM

                        are they better than The G and M's and have you ever tried The Edgewater in annapolis It's worth the trip.

                        23 Replies
                        1. re: fannie
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                          fedhillfoodie RE: fannie Mar 22, 2009 11:44 AM

                          I'll have to try some of these other ones, but my opinion is that G&M blows Faidley's out of the water. I've probably been to G&M and Faidley's for crabcakes each about 5-10 times, and I'm not sure what people even like about Faidley's - G&M's crabcakes seem to be about double the size with much less filler for the same price (or less), and Faidley's never seem to be cooked through. I'm talking about the expensive lump ones, not the cheap ones, although I've had those too and they're awful. I'm not honestly sure that I'd call Faidley's any good at all for crabcakes.

                          1. re: fedhillfoodie
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                            bmorecupcake RE: fedhillfoodie Mar 22, 2009 03:50 PM

                            Is there more than one G&M? Unless, they changed their kitchen staff in the last year or so, you couldn't pay me to eat that crabcake.

                            1. re: bmorecupcake
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                              FoiGras RE: bmorecupcake Mar 22, 2009 04:46 PM

                              Agree--G&M doesn't have the best crabcake. And, don't get me started with the Faidley's (they are only OK).

                              It's a very subjective topic, and gets all of the Chowhounds up on their pedestal of opinion (which is great). \

                              I had a luscious, plump, flavorful crabcake at the Rib 'n Reef on Padonia Road. Much better then G&M and certainly, more lump crab then Faidley's. In addition, the atmosphere is certainly a plus. White linens, candle light, and terrific salads, sides (i.e., twice baked potatoes, rice, steamed vegetables, onion rings, sauteed or fried spinach, cole slaw, etc.).

                              I suppose there will never be a consensus on Baltimore's Best Crabcake. Actually, IMO, I make a terrific one. But, I do prefer to just dine out and enjoy someone else's expertise in making a crabcake. Same with crab imperial. FoiGras

                              1. re: FoiGras
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                                fedhillfoodie RE: FoiGras Apr 5, 2009 09:07 AM

                                I went to Faidley's yet again (I like to take out-of-towners to see Lexington Market and they find it a safe choice) and found it much-worse-than-average yet again. So did the out-of-towners. I wouldn't call G&M a good crabcake, but I do think it's better than Faidley's. Maybe G&M is Asian crabmeat, beats me - the net I'm looking for is "did I like it?" and I've never left Faidley's thinking that I liked it. That's a bad sign.

                                1. re: fedhillfoodie
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                                  FoiGras RE: fedhillfoodie Apr 5, 2009 03:58 PM

                                  AGREE--what is the big deal with Faidley's crabcake? Also, G&M crabcakes are okay. I've had much better at Rib 'n Reef on Padonia Road.

                                  And, I know that I'll get a LOT OF SLACK ON WHAT I AM GOING TO NOW SAY--I actually like the crabcakes at Ruby Tuesday. I have no idea the origin of the crabmeat. The lumps were huge, no filler--very flat cakes, though. But, they were perfectly seasoned and very tasty.

                                  What perplexes me, is how people can determine where crabmeat originates when they are eating crabs steamed in high seasoning--how can one taste the "sweetness" of the meat with all of the seasoning?! Same goes for crabcakes. I suppose my palate isn't quite as sensitive or sophisticated as those who can distinguish the origin of crabmeat once it has been incorporated into a dish (or steamed) with seasonings. FoiGras

                                  1. re: FoiGras
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                                    bmorecupcake RE: FoiGras Apr 5, 2009 07:33 PM

                                    I'm not sure what's going on here, but I just took out of town guests to Faidley's last week and the crabcakes were good. Of course we don't all have to share tastes, but I don't feel like Faidley's has a lot of seasoning in their crabcakes at all. Certainly not enough to mask the sweetness of the crabmeat, in my opinion. I guess we can agree to disagree, with a sprinkling of cynicism, hehe.

                                  2. re: fedhillfoodie
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                                    Scott0 RE: fedhillfoodie Dec 30, 2011 03:14 PM

                                    Just to tell you....Faidley's, Timbuktoo's and several other area restaurants are using the SAME crabcake! All Manufactured by G&M.
                                    If you'd like to try an excellant crabcake a bit different from all the rest, try the newly rebuilt "Hemingways" on Kent Island. Just make sure you order the crabcake appetizer and get it fried! Trust me............
                                    The panko crust crisply surrounds this baseball sized, perfectly fried crabcake.

                                    1. re: Scott0
                                      JonParker RE: Scott0 Dec 30, 2011 03:49 PM

                                      Faidley's is not using G&M crabcakes. That may be the most ridiculous thing I ever read on these boards. I assume your recommendation has similar credibility.

                                  3. re: FoiGras
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                                    puffin463 RE: FoiGras Jan 6, 2011 09:55 AM

                                    Would you mind sharing your crabcake recipe?

                                2. re: fedhillfoodie
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                                  Hal Laurent RE: fedhillfoodie Mar 22, 2009 04:46 PM

                                  Double the size for the same price or less is a big red flag for me. It indicates that it's likely made from the less expensive but lacking-in-flavor Asian crabmeat rather than North American blue crab.

                                  I've become quite hesitant about getting crabcakes in restaurants lately, as use of the inferior crab species is becoming more and more prevalent. I've been sticking to making own crabcakes at home from crabmeat with known provenance.

                                  1. re: fedhillfoodie
                                    JonParker RE: fedhillfoodie Mar 23, 2009 06:12 AM

                                    While the crab cakes at Faidley's have been known to vary in quality from visit to visit, when they're on their game it's my favorite, at least since Angelina's changed hands a couple of years ago. And they always use domestic crab meat.

                                    G&M uses the cheaper and much less flavorful Asian swimmer crab meat. I thought it was repulsive -- flavorless "crab" stuck in a doughy mess of filler with the texture of cookie dough. I'm with Hal -- double the size is not what you are looking for in a crabcake.

                                    1. re: JonParker
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                                      gregb RE: JonParker Mar 23, 2009 08:21 AM

                                      That's a pretty good description of G&M's texture. I felt like I needed a glass of milk in order to get it down... tons of filler and undercooked.

                                      I have to go with Koco's and Duda's.

                                      1. re: gregb
                                        JonParker RE: gregb Mar 23, 2009 08:34 AM

                                        For some reason I never think of Duda's as a place to get a good crab cake, but I've had it before and liked it a lot. They're half price on either Tuesday or Wednesday -- I can't remember which. They don't have a web site.

                                        1. re: JonParker
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                                          hon RE: JonParker Mar 23, 2009 08:42 AM

                                          I think it's tuesday thats crab cake night there.

                                          1. re: hon
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                                            gregb RE: hon Mar 23, 2009 09:53 AM

                                            Their half price crab cakes are made with backfin rather than the jumbo lump, so they are different but still good.

                                            It goes back to what Hal way saying, the prices are usually lower for a reason.

                                            1. re: gregb
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                                              charmedgirl RE: gregb Mar 23, 2009 10:22 AM

                                              For what it's worth, there is a distinct school of thought that posits crabcakes SHOULD be made with backfin instead of the jumbo lump. I like both, but the crabcakes I grew up with were made out of backfin. There was an interesting crabcake thread on the Homecooking board last summer that talked about which kinds of meat make the best cake, and lots of Balt/DC posters weighed in. It was pretty interesting!

                                              1. re: gregb
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                                                Hal Laurent RE: gregb Mar 23, 2009 11:34 AM

                                                The backfin meat (of real blue crab, not the Asian stuff) tastes just fine. It's just in smaller pieces.

                                                1. re: Hal Laurent
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                                                  gregb RE: Hal Laurent Mar 24, 2009 08:14 AM

                                                  Very true, the taste is not an issue. The texture suffers a little and the chance of getting some shell/cartilage goes up.

                                            2. re: JonParker
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                                              AlexDer RE: JonParker Mar 3, 2010 07:21 PM

                                              I went to Duda's last week and found they were closed.... Have they moved?

                                              1. re: AlexDer
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                                                Hal Laurent RE: AlexDer Mar 4, 2010 06:52 AM

                                                What day of the week? Duda's is closed on Sundays.

                                                1. re: Hal Laurent
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                                                  AlexDer RE: Hal Laurent Mar 4, 2010 09:17 AM

                                                  That explains it, i went on a sunday evening.

                                      2. re: fannie
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                                        DPGood RE: fannie May 10, 2011 03:08 PM

                                        The Edgewater Resataurant on Mayo Road in Edgewater has the best crab cakes anywhere-- but don't tell anyone. It's a secret!

                                        1. re: DPGood
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                                          hillstfr RE: DPGood Jan 9, 2012 09:31 AM

                                          Uh, no. I live walking distance from the Edgewater Restaurant and well in a word they're horrible. I'd heard the hype that their crabcakes were amazing but what I got was a greasy crabcake w/ alot of filler of undetermined origin. That and the service was horrible.

                                          Avoid it diligently.

                                      3. d
                                        Denise RE: cakeguy Mar 22, 2009 01:26 PM

                                        IMO, Annapolis Seafood Market beats out Faidley's, Edgewater Restaurant, G&M, and Gunnings (haven't tried the others).

                                        I would like to get Joe H to stop by one of the Annapolis Seafood Markets the next time he heads across the bridge to The Narrows so he can place his imprimatur on their cakes. :)

                                        .

                                        2 Replies
                                        1. re: Denise
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                                          fedhillfoodie RE: Denise Apr 6, 2009 06:05 PM

                                          Their crabcake was good, I haven't had it in a while. I love their other seafood - Fisherman's Platter was an old standby when I lived there.

                                          1. re: Denise
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                                            SpareRib RE: Denise Dec 30, 2011 04:30 PM

                                            Annapolis Seafood Market are my favorite too. I haven't had any better anywhere and I loves me some crabcookies.

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                                            hon RE: cakeguy Mar 23, 2009 06:26 AM

                                            Mamas on the Half Shell and Henninger's Tavern both have a good crab cake as does Dudas.

                                            1 Reply
                                            1. re: hon
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                                              Denise8 RE: hon May 11, 2010 02:10 PM

                                              I don't think you can go wrong with ANYTHING at Mamas on the Half Shell! Our go to place for out of towners, because it's always consistent.

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                                              dfishhead RE: cakeguy Mar 23, 2009 10:55 AM

                                              Ate at Duda's twice, once last summer and then again in December. Summer cakes were by far better, I am assuming because crab meat was much fresher then, or maybe winter meat wasn't even MD crab meat. Any other thoughts about that?

                                              1 Reply
                                              1. re: dfishhead
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                                                Hal Laurent RE: dfishhead Mar 23, 2009 11:35 AM

                                                Crabs can't be harvested in Maryland during the winter (I forget the exact season). The closest you can get in the winter is Virginia crabmeat that is packed in Maryland.

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                                                lnyc RE: cakeguy Mar 25, 2009 10:57 AM

                                                I am moving to DC shortly, when is crab season out there?

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                                                  gibby0517 RE: cakeguy Aug 20, 2009 03:24 PM

                                                  I ate at Pappas today.Best crabcake in town, IMO.Now, for $15 at lunch you get a delicious 7oz crabcake, a cup of soup, 2 veggies and coffee. GO.

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                                                    bang4dabuck RE: cakeguy Aug 21, 2009 04:05 AM

                                                    CRAB FLUFF from Gunnings. I don't really like their cakes but the fluff is better than G & M, Edgewater Restaurant (used to be my favorite)and Faidleys, IMO. Never been to Pappas or Kocos or tried Annapolis Seafoods' CC's.

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                                                      overboost44 RE: cakeguy Sep 26, 2009 12:50 PM

                                                      So I am a Baltimore native and have lived on the Eastern Shore for 12 yrs. In Baltimore Faidley's is one of the top crab cakes. They don't use Asian crabs according to them. You should spend the extra and get the Jumbo lump about $12.
                                                      On the eastern shore you want to go to Kentmoor on Kent Island or The Narrows. Near Annapolis, the Edgewater Restaurant has a great crabcake as well. I wouldn't take anyone that I liked to G&M.

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                                                        few RE: cakeguy Sep 27, 2009 05:43 PM

                                                        Well we went to Faidleys in Lexington Market - we started with oysters and clams at the Raw bar - COLD FRESH and OOOH so good
                                                        Then we had teh Jumbo lump crabcake......and a cold beer - AWESOME, full of crab, lightly seasoned and purely scrumptious!

                                                        2 Replies
                                                        1. re: few
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                                                          Jackzig RE: few Dec 27, 2009 10:35 AM

                                                          The oysters at Faidleys are wonderful, I'd give my first born for a dozen of them right now!

                                                          1. re: few
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                                                            dining with doc RE: few Dec 27, 2009 02:14 PM

                                                            I agree with you. that is the perfect chow!.

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                                                            daisyterp RE: cakeguy Sep 28, 2009 12:04 PM

                                                            No one likes Timbuktu's crab cake? The dining room is a retro throwback, but it was a great cake!

                                                            1 Reply
                                                            1. re: daisyterp
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                                                              flavrmeistr RE: daisyterp Sep 28, 2009 12:25 PM

                                                              The last couple times I ate at Timbuktu, the food didn't sit too well. Maybe they need to change the oil in the fryer or something. Also, the place could use a good cleaning.

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                                                              frankbean98367 RE: cakeguy Mar 3, 2010 05:39 PM

                                                              GO PLAY A ROUND OF GOLF AND VISIT GENEVA FARMS FOR THE BEST CAKE YOU WILL EVER HAVE. EVERYTHING ELSE IS BULL. DONT GET IT BROILED BECAUSE THE BEST CAKES ARE FRIED, LIVE A LITTLE!! YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE!!

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                                                                bottlerocket75 RE: cakeguy Mar 13, 2010 06:10 PM

                                                                Pappas, without a doubt, makes the best crab cakes I've tasted. No filler, big chunks of meet, great flavor. Friendly staff. If you get there early, you'll probably be the only one in there below the age of about 75, but that's part of the charm. There's an old guy that plays the same handfull off songs over and over and over. You can also sit in the sportsbar side, I guess. I stick with the side with the old folks.

                                                                On a side note, last week I went into Bill Bateman's with my wife and infant son for a quick meal. They were having their "Surf and Turf" night. One special was a steak and crabcake. The steak was tough and awful, but I should have expected as much for such a low price. But the crabcake? It was simply inedible - gooey and fowl tasting. I normally only get crab cakes at Pappas, so I stupidly forgot how bad they could get messed up.

                                                                6 Replies
                                                                1. re: bottlerocket75
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                                                                  Denise RE: bottlerocket75 Apr 5, 2010 06:10 AM

                                                                  Pappas recently opened another restaurant in Glen Burnie in a stand alone restaurant on Ritchie Highway outside the mall on Ordnance Road - Centre at Glen Burnie. I think it used to be a Bennigans?

                                                                  Same delicious crabcakes as their Taylor Ave restaurant.

                                                                  This might be the place to start sending people coming through BWI - 8 miles, about 10 minutes by car.

                                                                  1. re: Denise
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                                                                    chowsearch RE: Denise Apr 5, 2010 02:52 PM

                                                                    Pappas readily admits they use pasteurized unrefrigerated un-local crabmeat in their crabcakes.

                                                                    1. re: chowsearch
                                                                      Bob W RE: chowsearch May 10, 2010 07:58 AM

                                                                      Any restaurant that plans on using only local crabmeat in their crabcakes won't be selling crabcakes for several months each year. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using crabmeat from the Gulf, as long as it's from blue crabs (i.e., not other species such as Phillips' "blue swimming crab").

                                                                      1. re: Bob W
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                                                                        chowsearch RE: Bob W May 10, 2010 10:30 AM

                                                                        Agreed. Restaurants with low crabcake prices who admit to using imported are not usually using fresh from anywhere, whether the Gulf or South America, it's the $6 pasteurized tasteless pretty stuff with nice lumps Pappas admits to...like the stuff Phillips brings in that's destroying the US crabbers. Especially sad because Pappas owns a seafood retail market across the street.

                                                                    2. re: Denise
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                                                                      chowsearch RE: Denise Apr 25, 2010 08:20 AM

                                                                      The BWI crabcake need is ongoing. Glen Burnie is fairly far, Jennings in Catonsville has a good one, probably about same distance. Timbuktu was OK, had an immigration raid recently that seemed pretty disruptive, anyone been since? Gunning's is down the street, crabs can be good, anyone had the crabcake lately? Any reports on The Rose just above the airport?

                                                                    3. re: bottlerocket75
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                                                                      collardman RE: bottlerocket75 Sep 21, 2010 10:00 AM

                                                                      Passing through and a local took me to Pappas last night. The carb cake was outstanding. While my wife is the crab cake expert and orders them wherever we travel I do sample them from time to time. I would go out of my way for another Pappas crab cake. (Since she was not with me when I tell her about it we may have to plan a Baltimore trip

                                                                      I'm from New Orleans so eat crab often but have never had that much good crab meat for that price in a restaurant

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                                                                      sketti RE: cakeguy Apr 10, 2010 11:56 AM

                                                                      G & M crabcakes are overcooked FISHY-tasting dense globs. That paired with the nasty front room staff gets them the 'never return' rating in my book.

                                                                      Tark's Grill in Greenspring Station has a great crabcake, and paired with the sweet potato fries, it's fantastic. I can also vouch for Rib n Reef, but Tark's is still better.

                                                                      -----
                                                                      Tark's Grill
                                                                      10751 Falls Rd, Lutherville Timonium, MD 21093

                                                                      G & M
                                                                      804 N Hammonds Ferry Rd, Linthicum Heights, MD 21090

                                                                      1 Reply
                                                                      1. re: sketti
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                                                                        FoiGras RE: sketti Apr 10, 2010 04:24 PM

                                                                        "sketti"--you peaked my interest when you claimed that Tark's has a better crabcake then Rib 'n Reef (now Reef Grille). I agree that G&M is sooooooo overrated, but have to admit that I did enjoy the crabcake that I ate when I first dined there 3 years ago (after living out of this area--I was on a crabcake starvation diet and didn't know any better).

                                                                        Now that I am back in my hometown and have recollected what a great crabcake truly should be, I felt that Rib 'n Reef stood high on point. Will have to try Tark's. Have hesitated to dine there since I've rarely heard any favorable mentions as to the overall quality of the cuisine. FoiGras

                                                                        G&M is oo

                                                                      2. m
                                                                        md2chi RE: cakeguy Apr 24, 2010 08:58 PM

                                                                        New to the board, so hope I am responding in the correct place. Moved to Chicago area TOOlong ago, here is what I miss the most...
                                                                        Yeah, G & M - have had them shipped out here for parties.
                                                                        Friendly Farms - they are REALLY good crabcakes (and the fries are great too)
                                                                        And... haven't seen this one mentioned on the boards at all, but Manny's in BelAir make a great crabcake. They have a different flavor, can't quite put my finger on it, but I love them. Almost always make a trip up to Manny's when I come back. (their Philly cheesesteaks are great also)

                                                                        1 Reply
                                                                        1. re: md2chi
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                                                                          ivysmom RE: md2chi Sep 21, 2010 04:13 PM

                                                                          Friendly Farms was selling crabcakes at the Maryland Wine Festival this past weekend. Boy, that crabcake really hit the spot. A bit of filler but not a ton. Very sweet crabmeat.

                                                                          -----
                                                                          Friendly Farm
                                                                          17434 Foreston Rd, Upperco, MD 21155

                                                                        2. c
                                                                          clnmgb RE: cakeguy May 3, 2010 10:06 PM

                                                                          Romanos in Glen Burnie has to have some of the most underrated crab cakes in the Baltimore area. The fried ones are competitive with other restaurants, but I challenge someone to find a better broiled crab cake than theirs. Getting a broiled crab cake right is something few restaurants seem to be able to do.

                                                                          2 Replies
                                                                          1. re: clnmgb
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                                                                            nedsballs88 RE: clnmgb May 9, 2010 10:08 PM

                                                                            Timbuktu! Always BROILED not fried, with cocktail sauce :)

                                                                            1. re: clnmgb
                                                                              Dennis S RE: clnmgb May 10, 2010 06:14 AM

                                                                              Definitely not Baltimore, but the broiled cake at Clarke's Landing used to be outstanding. I haven't been now for a few years, but it's still up there in my rankings.

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                                                                              nedsballs88 RE: cakeguy May 9, 2010 10:10 PM

                                                                              Also, Phillips is a given if on the Eastern Shore ( Ocean City specifically )

                                                                              3 Replies
                                                                              1. re: nedsballs88
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                                                                                dining with doc RE: nedsballs88 May 10, 2010 06:34 AM

                                                                                the only given is that the food will be mediocre. A certified tourist trap. would definitely avoid at all costs

                                                                                1. re: dining with doc
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                                                                                  hon RE: dining with doc May 10, 2010 07:58 AM

                                                                                  I couldn't agree more!

                                                                                2. re: nedsballs88
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                                                                                  jvanderh RE: nedsballs88 Apr 19, 2011 11:17 AM

                                                                                  Right, and there's one in Baltimore.

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                                                                                  eatsgoodfoodie RE: cakeguy Dec 29, 2010 06:11 PM

                                                                                  OK, this is my 1st ever Chowhound post, so here it goes. Haven't lived in B-more in quite a few years, but Friendly Farms still gives me goosebumps - loved those crabcakes. Now, whenever I fly in, the 1st thing I do is do a detour from BWI airport over to Glen Burnie to Roy's Kwik Korner and get my baseball crabcake on a cracker while my friends add in Roy's milkshake, which I call icecream with a straw. Crummy looking place, but great, great crabcakes.

                                                                                  -----
                                                                                  Friendly Farm
                                                                                  17434 Foreston Rd, Upperco, MD 21155

                                                                                  Roy's Kwik Korner
                                                                                  1002 Crain Hwy S, Glen Burnie, MD 21061

                                                                                  1. s
                                                                                    steve43 RE: cakeguy Jan 8, 2011 08:15 AM

                                                                                    My favorite crab cakes in Baltimore are at the Ikaros Restaurant on Eastern Ave in Greektown. This place has been there for years, and has a full greek menu. The cakes are huge - 2 to an order and most people eat one and take the other home. Lots of backfin meat, firm and properly spiced. Don't be put off by the neighborhood or the outdated decor - this is the real thing for greek food. I've been to Pappa's (good), G&M (so-so), Timbukto (same size as Ikaros, but not as firm or tastey), and none can compare to these cakes. They also make a great baked seafood wrapped in Filo.

                                                                                    1. h
                                                                                      hopeinmee RE: cakeguy Feb 8, 2011 10:20 AM

                                                                                      Has there been any recent updates to this post? I have a group coming to town and was going to take them to Obrycki's for crab cakes. They are staying downtown in the harbor area so I am trying to find a location near their hotel. However, Obrycki's is closed for the winter and I am looking for other suggestions on where to go for crab cakes. Unfortunately G&M and Friendly Farms are not reasonable taxi fares from downtown.

                                                                                      Where do you recommend downtown for crab cakes?

                                                                                      -----
                                                                                      Friendly Farm
                                                                                      17434 Foreston Rd, Upperco, MD 21155

                                                                                      9 Replies
                                                                                      1. re: hopeinmee
                                                                                        Dennis S RE: hopeinmee Feb 8, 2011 10:55 AM

                                                                                        Faidley's in Lexington Market should be high on the list. I wouldn't go to G&M even if I lived near to it.

                                                                                        -----
                                                                                        Lexington Market
                                                                                        400 W Lexington St, Baltimore, MD 21201

                                                                                        1. re: hopeinmee
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                                                                                          hon RE: hopeinmee Feb 8, 2011 11:19 AM

                                                                                          Dudas in Fells Point

                                                                                          Henningers Tavern in Fells Point
                                                                                          www.henningerstavern.com

                                                                                          Mamas on the Half Shell in Canton
                                                                                          http://www.mamasmd.com/MamasSite/

                                                                                          1. re: hon
                                                                                            JonParker RE: hon Feb 8, 2011 01:57 PM

                                                                                            Hon's suggestions are all good. It was following her recs that taught me to appreciate a good crab cake as opposed to a terrible one. Dennis is also spot on with both his rec and his non-rec.

                                                                                            In South Baltimore I'd also recommend Captain Larry's.

                                                                                            -----
                                                                                            Captain Larry's
                                                                                            601 E Fort Ave, Baltimore, MD 21230

                                                                                            1. re: JonParker
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                                                                                              2000man RE: JonParker Jul 22, 2011 09:42 AM

                                                                                              All lot of info here, but HON and JP make very solid recs. here.

                                                                                          2. re: hopeinmee
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                                                                                            overboost44 RE: hopeinmee Feb 8, 2011 12:41 PM

                                                                                            If you need to keep it to the downtown area, my suggestion is Faidley's jumbo lump or another place that has not been mentioned so far...Gertrude's. I have not visited Gertrude's, but there was a show on Food Network (I think) that had a competition for the best crab cake in B'more and while Faidley's won, I am going to try Gertrude's when I get up there. The atmosphere between the two places couldn't be more different. Gertrude's is at the Baltimore Museum of Art and Faidley's is in let's say a "no where to go but up" part of town. I know it doesn't belong in this section, but if you want a very good Italian deli just walk north about 1.5 blocks on Paca street and get some groceries or sandwiches from Trinachria.

                                                                                            1. re: overboost44
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                                                                                              flavrmeistr RE: overboost44 Feb 10, 2011 06:00 AM

                                                                                              Trinachria's is great, but it's sort of a "nowhere to go but further up" area, so you need to stay on your toes. For that reason, they have someone watching over the little parking lot and they will walk ladies to their car. Very considerate.

                                                                                              1. re: flavrmeistr
                                                                                                melpy RE: flavrmeistr Jan 10, 2012 11:04 AM

                                                                                                Best to go in a group but they have se great stuff at Trinachria. I can just taste that wedge of provolone.

                                                                                                1. re: melpy
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                                                                                                  lawhound RE: melpy Jan 12, 2012 06:22 AM

                                                                                                  Trinacria is only open from about 8-4 on weekdays and Saturdays. During business hours, that stretch of Paca Street has plenty of foot and auto traffic and is perfectly safe. There are lots of little old ladies (and little old men), and larger and younger ones besides, who are in and out of the shop by themselves -- I hope that the posters will join them.

                                                                                                  1. re: lawhound
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                                                                                                    flavrmeistr RE: lawhound Jan 13, 2012 08:54 AM

                                                                                                    Myself, for one. Still, they don't guard that parking lot fer nuthin'.

                                                                                          3. l
                                                                                            layne123 RE: cakeguy Jun 23, 2011 09:28 AM

                                                                                            My family likes Faidley's!

                                                                                            1 Reply
                                                                                            1. re: layne123
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                                                                                              kopenhavn RE: layne123 Jul 19, 2011 08:51 PM

                                                                                              What does one think of Breezy Point crab cakes? Pros and cons anyone? My family and I have never been there. How come no one has mentioned them here. Feedback please. Thank you!

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                                                                                              laststandchili RE: cakeguy Jul 20, 2011 05:59 AM

                                                                                              http://www.hellasrestaurantandlounge....

                                                                                              I've seen mixed reviews, but my experiences at Hellas has always been rock solid. Service can be a mixed bag, but they are always jumping so dining early is a good bet. It's not high end cuisine, but I've never had a meal there I felt burned over.

                                                                                              Greek offerings are solid, servings for everything are generous if not ridiculous, and they make a point of using fresh local produce as much as possible, and generally have daily specials featuring local ingredients.

                                                                                              Crabcakes are huge with tons of lump meat, there is a fair amount of filler, but I'm ok with that. Freshness varies with the season, again to be expected. My father always complains about the lack of old bay. Personally I think thats a plus. It's all about the crab.

                                                                                              -----
                                                                                              Hellas Restaurants
                                                                                              8498 Veterans Hwy, Millersville, MD 21108

                                                                                              1. n
                                                                                                NaptownRugger RE: cakeguy Nov 6, 2011 07:41 AM

                                                                                                People have mentioned G&M Seafood in Linthicum and I definitely wouldn't bring anyone I liked there. They do use the imported Asian crabmeat (which is practically an insult in an area that prides itself on crabcakes) and there's a ton of filler. I used to work at Annapolis Seafood so I am partial to their crabcakes, but the Edgewater Restaurant in Mayo IS the real deal. When it comes to the subject of people "cutting" their crabcakes with imported crabmeat, it happens everywhere you go. Let's be real people, most places are trying to reduce their food cost by stretching the quality stuff with a little bit of the cheap and to tell the truth, the folks who come into Annapolis for Boat Show or Academy Graduation don't care or couldn't tell the difference. They simply wanna buy the product just to say that they got real Maryland Crabcakes. Same thing applies to people of bring home Sloughers during the winter and complain about it tasting like ammonia. Get it in your head folks, the reason why it tastes like ammonia is because it was IQF in someone's ammonia-process blast freezer and then just sat there waiting for you to buy it. If you want softcrabs, buy them during the spring or summer. Early season crabs are probably going to be papershells or at least very light. The best time to buy crabs is after Labor Day when they are starting to fatten themselves up for a long winter spend buried in the mud and probably when you don't want them anymore.

                                                                                                17 Replies
                                                                                                1. re: NaptownRugger
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                                                                                                  chowsearch RE: NaptownRugger Jan 2, 2012 07:06 PM

                                                                                                  It's so complicated, and we're so touchy here about this. Edgewater's CC isn't bad and the place is cute, but when asked, like G&M and aPappas, they admit it's imported. Gertrude's owner/chef admitted about three years ago in print they switched to pasteurized because the museum clientele thought the real tasted "fishy". At least they're up front about it, but sheesh, the guy is passing himself off as a Bay chef. And now Phillips has finally been embarrassed into using local in some dishes according to Gorelick. I've not heard it from them but would be surprised if Hella's uses local.

                                                                                                  1. re: chowsearch
                                                                                                    JonParker RE: chowsearch Jan 2, 2012 09:55 PM

                                                                                                    I would not be averse to having crab meat legally classified under a system similar to Spain's D.O. status. When I buy D.O. Cabrales, it's a guarantee that I'm getting the real deal. It's enforced by law. I think one of the problems we have is too much cheap crabmeat being sold at blue crab prices. It's not just an issue of demeaning a Maryland tradition, its actually fraudulent.

                                                                                                    1. re: JonParker
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                                                                                                      chowsearch RE: JonParker Jan 3, 2012 05:09 PM

                                                                                                      There has been talk at the state level. But it's complicated--what do you do about LA/TX live blue crabs packed at MD plants?

                                                                                                      1. re: chowsearch
                                                                                                        JonParker RE: chowsearch Jan 3, 2012 07:13 PM

                                                                                                        See, I'm ok with LA/TX crabs being DO. I just want to know that its domestic.

                                                                                                        1. re: JonParker
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                                                                                                          flavrmeistr RE: JonParker Jan 3, 2012 11:11 PM

                                                                                                          Since DelMarVa crabs are out of season and will be for some months, It would seem this topic is of no immediate concern. Let's think about oysters for a while.

                                                                                                          1. re: flavrmeistr
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                                                                                                            chowsearch RE: flavrmeistr Jan 4, 2012 09:50 PM

                                                                                                            Wonder if some brave hound will try the $25 allegedly domestic crabmeat sauteed in butter Gorelick mentioned at Phillips.

                                                                                                            1. re: chowsearch
                                                                                                              Dennis S RE: chowsearch Jan 5, 2012 07:48 AM

                                                                                                              This is what tourists are made for.

                                                                                                              1. re: Dennis S
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                                                                                                                elgringoviejo RE: Dennis S Jan 5, 2012 08:59 AM

                                                                                                                Even tourists don't deserve THAT humbug.

                                                                                                                1. re: elgringoviejo
                                                                                                                  Dennis S RE: elgringoviejo Jan 5, 2012 01:44 PM

                                                                                                                  While I agree, it's a truth.

                                                                                                                  And actually, I have felt similar on work trips where someone plans a trip to a similar place and I'm like "Can't you tell this is a tourist trap?"

                                                                                                                  And the world turns.

                                                                                                                  1. re: Dennis S
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                                                                                                                    flavrmeistr RE: Dennis S Jan 6, 2012 06:12 AM

                                                                                                                    Some tourist traps live up to the hype, though. Everyone is always busting on the Old Ebbitt Grille, for example, but they have a great happy-hour raw bar. Even Epcot in Disney World has some good deals in their weird little "international" bars. But you're right, Phillips is not in that league. Some tourist traps are only that and nothing more.

                                                                                                                    1. re: flavrmeistr
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                                                                                                                      Scott0 RE: flavrmeistr Jan 7, 2012 01:25 PM

                                                                                                                      Since I am new to "Chow Hound" I need to ask, Am I in the right place to talk about the differences in the crab cake recipes themselves? Whether from restaurants I've worked in, or mine or friends experiments and or favorites?

                                                                                                                      1. re: Scott0
                                                                                                                        JonParker RE: Scott0 Jan 7, 2012 02:34 PM

                                                                                                                        Recipes and techniques should go on the Home Cooking board

                                                                                                                        1. re: JonParker
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                                                                                                                          Scott0 RE: JonParker Jan 7, 2012 02:39 PM

                                                                                                                          Ok, damn sorry

                                                                                                                      2. re: flavrmeistr
                                                                                                                        crackers RE: flavrmeistr Jan 7, 2012 08:18 PM

                                                                                                                        Have to respectfully disagree about OEG. The happy hour oysters in my last two visits have been abysmal. And yes, they were in season. The fault lay with the so-called shucker (more a bungling mangler than a shucker) and not the shucked. But I digress...back to the fascinating if unending discussion of the crab meat sourcing of G&M and Phillips...

                                                                                                        2. re: JonParker
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                                                                                                          Scott0 RE: JonParker Jan 7, 2012 06:30 PM

                                                                                                          I totally agree with you but wish to at least try to take it one step further. Grading of crabmeat. Not just Claw,special'and backfin but quality grading as in fat percentage which I believe is what separates the meat in flavor depending on the sluffing period when the crabs drop their shells and use all their fat and protien to build a new shell. There is about a 3 week sweet spot where the crabs are the sweetest before sluffing again.

                                                                                                          1. re: Scott0
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                                                                                                            chowsearch RE: Scott0 Jan 10, 2012 11:04 AM

                                                                                                            Does such a grading exist?

                                                                                                            1. re: chowsearch
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                                                                                                              Scott0 RE: chowsearch Jan 11, 2012 02:35 PM

                                                                                                              Not that I've ever heard of but as passionate as some here are there should be. Anyone here want to help? I'm in.

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                                                                                                      dining with doc RE: cakeguy Jan 13, 2012 09:32 AM

                                                                                                      the best crab cake ever was served at the late Pump Room on North Avenue in Baltimore. They essentially took lump crab meat and lightly tossed it with mayo, a pinch of Dijon, a squirt of Worcestershire sauce and a little bit of crumbled saltine cracker, formed balls the size of a tangerine then deep fried it. served it on saltines with 2 slices of pickles on the side. Was fantastic. Less is more when it comes to crab cakes. Fried in hot oil also works better than broiling IMHO.

                                                                                                      8 Replies
                                                                                                      1. re: dining with doc
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                                                                                                        hon RE: dining with doc Jan 13, 2012 11:18 AM

                                                                                                        had to be egg in there too or the whole thing would have fallen apart in the fryer.

                                                                                                        1. re: dining with doc
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                                                                                                          Jackzig RE: dining with doc Jan 13, 2012 03:30 PM

                                                                                                          My wife makes crab cakes basically the same way, except she uses plain old yellow mustard (our grandmothers never heard of Dijon) plus an egg. the mayo (Hellman's, never any other brand) and egg. She puts the crab meat in a large bowl, adds the crumbled saltine, some fresh chopped parsley, about a half teaspoon of Old Bay, mixes the egg, mayo, mustard, Worstershire, then carefully combines everything, being careful not to break up the lumps of crab meat. She pan fries them in butter with a little vegetable oil added to prevent the butter from burning. She drains them for a a few second on paper towel and serves on saltines. They are also good served on rye bread, with a nice slice of red ripe 'Eastern Shore' summer tomato, and a piece of crisp lettuce.

                                                                                                          1. re: Jackzig
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                                                                                                            FoiGras RE: Jackzig Jan 13, 2012 05:50 PM

                                                                                                            YUM--this sounds similar to the recipe I grew up on when my Mom made crabcakes. Ironically,, crabcakes weren't a big deal when I was a kid. The "cake" was was made from leftover steamed crabs and usually considered a "poor man's" version of a hamburger. Mostly in the summer months. The leftover crabmeat was made into cakes and fried along with, fried green tomotaes, corn on the cob--sliced fresh tomatoes and cucumbers and sweet onions, poptato salad, etc.

                                                                                                            It seems as though crabcakes have become a "gourmet" item and there is never going to be the "Perfect" version. those of us who have grown up chowing down on the local versions, will always have our memory of versions that may never live up to the style of today's offerings.

                                                                                                            But,it is fun to see how long this thread has progressed and the varying opinions.

                                                                                                            I'm now focusing on oysters and produced a newer thread that relates to that succulent valve that is available this time of year. Am looking for something other then the typical fried oyster, and won't eat them raw any more. I love the grilled oyster appetizer at Oregon Grille and wish more restaurants would prepare something similar--I've also ebnjoyed "oysters on horseback"--I believe Mama's On the Half Shell prepares them. Help is needed to find grilled/roasted/ alternative oyster preparations (not just breaded and fried). FoiGras

                                                                                                            1. re: FoiGras
                                                                                                              woodleyparkhound RE: FoiGras Jan 13, 2012 05:59 PM

                                                                                                              I hope you can check out Pearl Dive in DC. Here is the part of the menu I think would most interest you:

                                                                                                              Oyster Plates $9

                                                                                                              Cornmeal Crusted Chesapeake Oysters
                                                                                                              Andouille Sausage- Sweet Potato Hash

                                                                                                              Tchoupitoulas
                                                                                                              Oyster Confit, Blue Crab, Tasso, Roasted Corn

                                                                                                              Angels on Horseback
                                                                                                              Grilled-Bacon Wrapped Oysters, Vin Blanc, Vinegar Reduction

                                                                                                              Wood Grilled East Coast Oysters
                                                                                                              Garlic, Red Chile Butter, Gremolata

                                                                                                              Rockefeller
                                                                                                              Broiled Oysters, Spinach, Bacon, Aioli

                                                                                                              I had #2 and #4 when I was there. Both were absolutely delicious.

                                                                                                              1. re: woodleyparkhound
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                                                                                                                FoiGras RE: woodleyparkhound Jan 15, 2012 08:38 AM

                                                                                                                Thanks woodleyparkhound. I definitely have to get to Pearl Dive--I'd be in oyster Heaven. Hardly any of the Baltimore restaurants serve anything other then raw oysters and breaded/fried. I love Angels on Horseback and would definitely want to try the grilled oyster and the confit. You made my day. FoiGras

                                                                                                          2. re: dining with doc
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                                                                                                            dining with doc RE: dining with doc Nov 6, 2012 04:06 PM

                                                                                                            Samos restaurant in greektown has the same recipe the pump room had and get it fried. It is the best crab cake I have had since 1988 when the pump room closed

                                                                                                            1. re: dining with doc
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                                                                                                              FoiGras RE: dining with doc Nov 6, 2012 05:30 PM

                                                                                                              Doc--okay--okay--you've convinced me and others, I'm sure. We've got to get to Samos for that spectacular crabcake. Now, my friend, what if I don't agree--will you be willing to dollar spot my fave? (just joking). FoiGras

                                                                                                              1. re: FoiGras
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                                                                                                                dining with doc RE: FoiGras Nov 7, 2012 04:42 PM

                                                                                                                Let me know after you go. Also try the grilled calamari and the whole grilled Bronzino. That chef is putting out so big food from that little kitchen and it is so reasonable that you will believe you are in a time warp.

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                                                                                                            nohurry RE: cakeguy Nov 5, 2012 05:09 AM

                                                                                                            I've loved the takeaway CRAB CAKE SUBS with just a little mustard and hot sauce from Blue Point Crab House on Orleans and Montford for 10 years...now, come to find-out they're no longer offered...! They still have great cakes, but you have to take 'em home and make your own subs...problematic since i don't live in Balto and am only an occasional long-distance visitor.

                                                                                                            My new favorite is the OYSTER sub from Shore Sea Food in the Northeast Market about 4 or 5 blocks away............................(they have crab cakes too, but that's for next time...). See you..!

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