593021 Mon Feb 02 19:11:11 -0800 2009 42 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 4382172 Does anyone know what I am talking about? I don't eat lamb for the reason that is has that awful smell/aftertaste that lingers in your mouth. Sometimes when I buy beef, however, it has the exact same smell (maybe a bit toned down, but it is still there!). Does anyone know where this smell comes from and if it is only present in certain cuts of beef?? Or how to avoid it? Thanks for the help! Mon Feb 02 19:11:11 -0800 2009 235176 cups123 1 4382644 I wonder if you mean it tastes "gamey"? I've noticed this with some lamb and some goat, and assume it's related to the feed (grass"), and dark meat, but I'm not sure. Mon Feb 02 23:30:19 -0800 2009 4382172 39504 Shrinkrap 2 4382797 yeah, gamey. I dont eat lamb so it doesnt bother me. The worst those is when I bring home a piece of beef and it has that every so slightly terrible lambish scent. yuck! Tue Feb 03 04:06:58 -0800 2009 4382644 235176 cups123 1 4382877 I also don't eat lamb because of a strange, not quite identifiable taste that I find unpleasant, but I have never had that same reaction to beef, grain or grass fed. Hmm. Tue Feb 03 05:26:06 -0800 2009 4382172 81930 fbf242 1 4383057 "horrific" is your opinion... My first reaction is just that you don't like beef. There are very few people who actually eat beef and also say that it's "horrific." As Shrink mentioned, it's partly because of the feed, but also partly because of the animal. Lamb will always taste stronger than beef no matter what it eats because it's simply a different animal. Grass fed beef often has a stronger flavor compared to cattle that have been grain fed. As a small side note, understand that grass fed beef is natural and is the way beef actually SHOULD taste. Cows were not meant to eat grain and corn. In general... the stronger taste in some cuts of beef is going to be more prevalent in the cuts that have more fat, more connective tissue, and more muscle usage. Tenderloin will have less fat, less usage, and less of a strong beef flavor. Beef shank on the other hand will have a stronger flavor, more connective tissue, more fat, and will have been used more often when the animal was still on all fours walking around. These are very generalized definitions, but it's a place to start. Also think about the cooking method: Tenderloin is often simply grilled within a few short minutes with no other flavors added. Beef shank is just the opposite. It's often braised in flavorful liquids for long periods of time. Tue Feb 03 06:56:53 -0800 2009 4382172 42270 HaagenDazs 1 4383133 This is funny because my complaint about lamb is that the market for the "mild" version sometimes makes the meat so close to beef that it is no longer much different. While I don't want something labeled lamb to taste like mutton, I like the flavor of lamb and don't want it taken out of the product entirely. Tue Feb 03 07:21:44 -0800 2009 4382172 65193 EdwardAdams 2 4383179 I totally agree! I've used to order lamb whenever I saw it on the menu, but I've stopped because I always end up disappointed with the "may-as-well-be-beef" that I receive. Tue Feb 03 07:39:11 -0800 2009 4383133 10832 Humbucker 3 4384774 Then eat mutton instead (older than 1 year). Tue Feb 03 14:54:08 -0800 2009 4383179 10312 applehome 4 4385627 I would love to eat mutton more often, but I can't find the stuff! I see a lot of goat, but I don't think I've ever found mutton in a market near me. Tue Feb 03 20:06:30 -0800 2009 4384774 10832 Humbucker 1 4383172 There may be a few things involved in this: 1. Aged meats (including dry cured meats such as salami) may have a smell similar to mold, as aging includes having the exteriour aged with naturally boune tenderizers like mold (the "je ne sais crois" aspect, some may add); husband mentioned this yesterday regarding some proscuitto. If you smell something similar to certain cheeses, this may be the culprit. 2. Steaming ground red meat, particularly burgers, may release a smell and taste similar to liver (put hamburger in hot pan, add lid, and you'll see what I mean). This doesn't happen to braised meats, I've recently learned, but can happen if done incorrectly 3. Gameyness (as others have mentioned). Particularly true with lamb and goat, as well as some turkey and bison. Anything which drives our pets to act in a feral nature. Lamb has a lot of more pungent fat, and trimming this prior to roasting usually helps. Tue Feb 03 07:35:02 -0800 2009 4382172 224238 Caralien 2 4383223 Good points. As for the trimming of the lamb fat you are particularly correct. Get rid of the fat, and you get rid of much of the gameyness. Also note that much of the flavor of lamb is attributed to the lanolin in the fat which is produced by the animals. Tue Feb 03 07:55:03 -0800 2009 4383172 42270 HaagenDazs 3 4383244 Lanolin does make a good moisturiser, and for a lot of herbs & spices, including truffles, fat is the best way to soak up the flavouring agents (forgive me if truffles ar neither an herb nor a spice, as I don't know where funghi falls). Love lamb, however. Need to find a turkish place soon. Tue Feb 03 08:01:13 -0800 2009 4383223 224238 Caralien 4 4383385 You have it right - truffles are a fungi. They are used more like an herb/spice but in the simplest terms they are just fancy mushrooms. Tue Feb 03 08:41:54 -0800 2009 4383244 42270 HaagenDazs 5 4383465 but oh so yummy. Can't wait until October to try another batch from Oregon. Tue Feb 03 09:01:23 -0800 2009 4383385 224238 Caralien 2 4384741 Its not that I don't like meat or beef in general. For example, I have never had a bad experience with "steaks". Steaks seem to never have that aftertaste. Similar experience w ground beef. However, last week I made a roast beef (one of those bulky, round cuts that roast in the over for a few hrs - don't remember the exact cut) and when it was done, the smell!!! I seasoned it, put a sauce on it, inserted garlics into it, but it was that distinctive smell. I'm just trying to figure out which cuts to stay away from so I know ahead of time. Tue Feb 03 14:44:39 -0800 2009 4383172 235176 cups123 3 4384761 can you describe the odour? dirt, liver, mold, sour, sweet, green, fermented, sewage, rotting vegetables, fishy (apologies so close to dinner time) Tue Feb 03 14:50:31 -0800 2009 4384741 224238 Caralien 4 4385705 Theoretically, a properly dry-aged steak should have more of that smell, not less. I love the strong, cheeselike flavor of extra-aged prime beef, which is worth paying a lot extra for. And as others have pointed out, the problem with most of the lamb sold here is that it isn't strong enough: the best lamb is either slaughtered cruelly young or way too late - if you know a grower, you can sometimes get ``weathers,'' lamb that somehow escaped the roundup the first time around and is a year older than its brethren. Tue Feb 03 20:46:02 -0800 2009 4384761 10702 condiment 3 4624306 Round is well known for its flavor notes of liver. That's why some of us like it - too much of today's beef is actually deficient in flavor, as it were. Fri Apr 24 05:20:53 -0700 2009 4384741 13819 Karl S 1 4384753 Maybe your meat has gone ... bad??? Tue Feb 03 14:48:14 -0800 2009 4382172 11583 ipsedixit 2 4385140 Its that gamey "smell" maybe I should say taste. Its that gamey taste that leaves that gross aftertaste. The same "taste" that lamb has that some people on this board apparently like. Sorry to throw you off w my use of smell - its just so bad it overwhelms both senses lol. Tue Feb 03 16:58:40 -0800 2009 4384753 235176 cups123 3 4385512 Maybe you should simply avoid red meat if you have such a negative reaction to it, even occasionally. I really don't know which parts of a cow are more gamey than another, as it never smells (or tastes) like lamb to me. Tue Feb 03 19:13:34 -0800 2009 4385140 224238 Caralien 4 4386250 I agree. There's ample room for venting about personal likes and dislikes but to me this post is getting kind of ridiculous. It's pretty obvious to me that you just don't like red meat. Wed Feb 04 06:51:44 -0800 2009 4385512 42270 HaagenDazs 4 4625125 I've been reading through this, and other than grass-fed beef I've purchased, I haven't noticed beef smelling the way lamb does either. Perhaps the OP just has a more sensitive taste towards beefiness and gaminess? Fri Apr 24 10:05:48 -0700 2009 4385512 10532 LindaWhit 1 4385596 Since the flavor is mostly in the fat, it's probably a good guess that the gameyness is there as well. (Although not necessarily.) But you might try buying only the freshest and leanest of cuts for a while to see if you run into the same issues. Stay away from anything from the rib or short loin (top loin or strip, although the tenderloin is probably ok). Buy sirloin for steak, round - particularly eye of round - for roasts. Flank is probably ok, but not skirt. Certainly no brisket. Avoid anything from the chuck altogether. For hamburger, buy only ground round or sirloin 85% lean or better, and make sure it was ground that morning. Most people (me included) have the other problem - we crave the fat. Probably has to do with the ice age neanderthal genes - our bodies still think we need it to survive. Consider yourself lucky. Eat lean red meat only once in a while, live a long, healthy life, and consider your small carbon footprint (from being the cause of only a small amount of methane) to be your contribution to the betterment of the world. Tue Feb 03 19:50:31 -0800 2009 4382172 10312 applehome 1 4387066 Lamb fat has a higher melting point than beef, which in turn is higher than that of pork. I find pork fat to be quite palatable because it melts around mouth temperature, much like butter. Lamb fat, on the other hand, can form a solid coating on the roof your mouth. While I don't like this texture aspect of lamb fat, I haven't noticed anything wrong with the flavor. Still if there was something wrong with the flavor or smell, this high melting point could explain why it tends to linger. Wed Feb 04 10:42:04 -0800 2009 4382172 12139 paulj 2 4387465 Wow! That's interesting! Wed Feb 04 12:24:56 -0800 2009 4387066 39504 Shrinkrap 1 4387667 I'm baffled by the concept of "gameyness" in farm-raised animals, as used throughout this thread. While grass-fed/pastured beef and lamb does taste very different (and as HaagenDasz points out, natural) it isn't a game flavour in the sense that I understand it. Even farmed/pastured elk, deer, rabbit, etc, who live on a restricted diet don't have true game flavour that comes from a broad-based, natural diet (cedar, juniper, grasses, whatever...). That true game flavour can, I know, be off-putting to people raised on factory-farmed meats, how that is comparable to meats bought in a normal store/butcher shop, I don't quite get. Wed Feb 04 13:20:56 -0800 2009 4382172 144892 Dan G 1 4624223 You are absolutely right about the disgusting after-taste that lamb has. I'm not sure if it's technically the "gamey" flavor that is associated with other meats. The best way to describe this taste is if (sorry to be crude) someone farted in your mouth. I don't know what it is, but after you eat something like a gyro/shawarma, you will always notice that there was lamb inside it because of that nasty after-taste. And it's not just an after-taste, you are able to notice the nastiness while you're eating it, which makes it a "during-taste." I've heard that if you trim the fat off of the lamb, you will remove most of this nastiness. Much of that lanolin/gameyness/fart is located in the fat. I've also heard that if you wash your lamb, before cooking, in vinegar and rinsing it off---it will also mitigate the nastiness. I've also heard that by marinating it in yogurt and really pungent spices/herbs such as rosemary helps to nullify the nastiness......but all you're really doing is concealing what's already there. I've been trying for years to find a way to eat lamb, and it's been impossible. As for beef, I'm not so sure that it has the same nasty taste. I've never noticed it. Then again, it's been awhile since I've eaten beef. either way, it all tastes better than liver. Fri Apr 24 03:57:41 -0700 2009 4382172 285769 alpa chino 2 4624247 alpa chino, I love lamb. In the spirit of full disclosure, I adore all liver. The only thing I can suggest for you to "find a way to eat lamb" is to try to find the freshest lamb you can. Find a local producer if possible. I had the great fortune to live in outback Austraila for several years in the mid '80s and knew many producers, so I ate lamb frequently. No aftertaste! When I returned to the states I was consistantly dissapointed by lamb, in restaurants and via retail, because of the aftertaste. I finally understood mint jelly, IMHO it is used to cover this flavor. When I can find very fresh chops I will buy them to grill, and I am rarely dissapointed. Fri Apr 24 04:46:16 -0700 2009 4624223 12607 Tee 3 4631510 Tee, Forgive me if I call your pallet suspect. After all, you do adore liver. But with that being said, we regularly get "fresh new zealand" lamb here all the time. I remember just recently for easter/passover, there was a ton of nz lamb at the local sam's club. I don't know if NZ is the same as Aussie lamb or if this stuff is actually fresh or not, but I'm sorry my friend---that taste is inescapable. And you're right about mint jelly---that's exactly what it's there for. Mon Apr 27 00:38:44 -0700 2009 4624247 285769 alpa chino 4 4633044 alpa Chino, My palate is just fine, thank you! However, I do think I could eat a whole pallet of liver. Back to lamb, I stand by my conviction that really fresh meat has no aftertaste. That , of course, is only my opinion , and I respect your disagreement. Now I want lamb chops, and liver and onions for dinner....... Mon Apr 27 12:30:37 -0700 2009 4631510 12607 Tee 2 4624941 Perhaps you should just avoid lamb altogether. Calling foods others eat and enjoy "nasty" and "disgusting" is insulting and offensive. We all have preferences and aversions to certain foods, but there is no need to denigrate others tastes. Fri Apr 24 09:14:44 -0700 2009 4624223 23675 phofiend 3 4631512 I'm not denigrating anyone else's tastes. I'm only referring to what the original poster, cups, called "awful." And yes, for those of us who don't like it---it is awful and nasty. But if you like lamb----by all means, eat it up. I like brussel sprouts, and that's not so popular with everyone. To each his own. Mon Apr 27 00:42:40 -0700 2009 4624941 285769 alpa chino 1 4624575 A question to those of you who don't like lamb: do you also not like stinky cheeses? I prefer lamb, mutton, capybara, guinea pig, and goat over beef; and duck over chicken. Love stinky cheeses. Fri Apr 24 07:26:20 -0700 2009 4382172 36661 Sam Fujisaka 2 4624650 Hate stinky cheeses, love (most) lamb. True, I'm much more likely to go for a Middle-Eastern preparation with cinnamon & garlic & such, chopped small or ground, than a grilled lamb chop, but that's more about my dislike of gnawing on big hunks of red meat than a flavor thing. I have noticed though - I do a fantastic French-ish braised leg of lamb that's delicious when it comes out of the oven, but after a day or two in the fridge the leftovers get an unpleasant overly-lamby taste. Things like that make me a little wary of lamb someimes, but when it's done well it's oh-so-good. Fri Apr 24 07:49:31 -0700 2009 4624575 131105 Emmmily 1 4624859 The smell you describe is just raw meat protein. Lamb can be tamed somewhat by removing the fell or silverskin. Fri Apr 24 08:48:33 -0700 2009 4382172 10926 mnosyne 1 4633999 I adore good beef, any cut of lamb AND brussells sprouts. I can also appreciate calve's liver from time to time if I'm in the mood for it, but I rarely am. I recently purchased beef from a national chain supermarket (I was in the mood for a steak, but didn't have the time or energy to drive an extra twenty miles to a supermarket with a quality meat market - blame PMS) and I've purchased a cut of beef that supermarket calls a "tender." Not tenderloin, mind you. Just "tender" which is close enough to be entirely deceptive. It was the most expensive cut in this cut-rate market, and it was marked "grill quality" but it just wasn't. It tasted overwhelmingly like liver, and I just couldn't eat it. I should have known better, but I got taken. This is what I took from that experience: Don't buy cheap beef. If it's cut-rate, chances are it's from played-out dairy cows who haven't spent a whole lot of time outdoors. Tastes like desperation. I prefer grass-fed beef, and yes, it is "gamier" or stronger-tasting. It tastes like, well, beef! No BGH, no antibiotics, free-range, no feed lot. The Australian stuff is my favorite. (And - as a friendly bit of advice - you might want to lay off the fart comparison. Some might take it wrong. You can buy me off for a few lamb chops, though!) Mon Apr 27 16:56:51 -0700 2009 4382172 76279 chefbeth 2 4634053 I wonder if that 'tender' was a hanging-tender. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanger_steak This can be a quite tender piece of meat, except for a strip of connective tissue down the middle. But because it is close to the kidneys it can be more 'flavorful', or given a different perception, more 'livery' (due to a higher iron content?). Mon Apr 27 17:16:13 -0700 2009 4633999 12139 paulj 3 4634747 In a supermarket, it's much more likely to be Chuck tender, often called "Mock-tender". Hanger steaks are pretty much reserved for restaurants and high-end butchers. From the IMPS: "Item No. 116B - Beef Chuck, Chuck Tender - This item consists of the supraspinatus muscle which lies dorsal to the medial ridge of the blade bone. The chuck tender shall be separated from the other muscles through the natural seams." It's a single solid muscle the size of a trimmed-out tenderloin and so referred to as a mock tender (without the loin because it's chuck). It's a piece of chuck - braise it. Roasting it is going to create a very chewy piece of meat. About the only thing I don't braise (or smoke for hours) from the chuck is the top blade which can become a flatiron or a blade roast/steak. Mon Apr 27 22:33:57 -0700 2009 4634053 10312 applehome 4 4634809 OK. It's the Flat Iron, also derived from the chuck, that has become more common in groceries. I even find that in small town groceries. I must be fortunate in that my local butch (good, but not high end) sometimes has the hanging-tender. If so, I may be more familiar with the hanging-tender than most. It's less obvious, then, why something from the chuck would taste livery. Mon Apr 27 23:33:01 -0700 2009 4634747 12139 paulj 1 4634179 It could also be the packaging. Air tight (like Cryovac) is a good thing for shelf life, visual color and to be leak proof but the lack of oxygen can also cause a funky smell when first opened and an off flavor/aftertaste if cooked too soon after packaging is removed. There's all kinds of science behind the packaging that I'm not going to pretend to understand (gases used in packaging, residual oxygen anyone?) but I have noticed small print on labels that advise that product should sit at room temperature or in the cooler for a certain amount of time prior to prepping or cooking. How to avoid...open packaging & run fast or only buy fresh cuts from a butcher? Mon Apr 27 18:05:42 -0700 2009 4382172 193831 oldbaycupcake 2 4634207 Learn something new ( here) every day! Mon Apr 27 18:20:37 -0700 2009 4634179 39504 Shrinkrap 1 4902749 Hi there... From what you have described, I think I experience the exact same problem. All my life I have always been a big meat eater, including beef and lamb. My mother at times would complain about a smell and taste that I couldn't smell or taste at the time, but over the years has become apparent. It got really bad when I was pregnant, and now I notice it so much that often I just cant eat the meat. When I start cooking it I can smell it distinctly now, sometimes stronger than other times, and I know that I wont be able to eat it if it has that smell, as it will have "that" flavour. I am sorry to say I have no idea what it is. I notice it most with supermarket meat. I have never noticed it with organic mince (have not tried any other cut or type of organic meat) and I very much doubt it is anything to do with being grass fed as I have eaten a lot of meat in Argentina, as I have family there, and all the meat there is grass fed, and it is fantastic - and has never had that smell or flavour. In fact I don't think it has ever happened with meat that I have specifically bought as grass fed ( I buy grass fed as it has much more flavour and is better for cooking an Argentinean asado bbq) even here in Australia. I would love to know if you found out what it is. I suspect it may be some sort of preservative or additive. Cheers Thu Jul 30 06:36:44 -0700 2009 4382172 1097862 janealicia