590804 Sun Jan 25 19:58:35 -0800 2009 38 34 Wine 0 4357357 Noticed a review by Rob't Lauriston of one with which I was not familiar right about the time I had a Crocker Starr cab franc, a personal fav. I've not seen much similarity between New World (specifically California) and say, Chinon or Bourgeil hence the exclusion of the latter. Sun Jan 25 19:58:35 -0800 2009 31795 ibstatguy 1 4357581 I'm going to sound like a broken record (an expression that may be lost on some younger folks): In order of preference: Pride Mountain, Spring Mountain Vineyard's Cabernet Francisco, Crocker & Starr, Titus Less special: Lang & Reed Not so good: Tresspass. I love the grape, the varietal. Sun Jan 25 21:53:53 -0800 2009 4357357 18222 maria lorraine 2 4357844 Lang and Reed always one of my favorites. One that I recently tried and was quite good as well as organic is Yorkville from Mendocino Mon Jan 26 05:06:40 -0800 2009 4357581 161815 Ichewonthis 1 4358007 >>> I've not seen much similarity between New World (specifically California) and say, Chinon or Bourgeil . . . <<< For me, the major problem historically is that California winemakers treated Cabernet Franc as if it were Cabernet Sauvignon, rather than a Loire Valley grape. But with the very obvious and very noteworthy exception of Château Cheval Blanc, Cabernet Franc is a minor player in the wines of Bordeaux, and so the "learning curve" -- at least as California is concerned -- has been long and, perhaps, unnecessarily steep. Basically, my list would agree with Maria Lorraine's. Pride Mountain and Crocker & Starr have been very consistent producers of high-quality Cab Franc. The most Loire-like Cab Franc I've ever had from California came from Indian Springs Vineyards in Nevada County (Sierra Foothills). But candidly, I stick with those from the Loire . . . Cheers, Jason Mon Jan 26 06:44:32 -0800 2009 4357357 28122 zin1953 2 4358727 ML and Jason: I've had the Titus about which I agree with ML but I've not had the Pride and I will have to track it down. In the Bordeaux varietal context, what about Petite Verdots? I had one several years ago that I rather liked (and, of course, now don't recall the producer) and I don't recall seeing any others for quite a while. Supposedly there is a very good (albeit rather expensive) one which is imported from Spain. I've also read about one from Jaunik in WA but have not bothered to contact the winery to get one. Mon Jan 26 10:26:01 -0800 2009 4358007 31795 ibstatguy 1 4358431 If you're looking for something that lands somewhere between the CA and the Loire versions of this grape, New York's North Fork might be a good place to start. Pindar Vineyards makes a highly lauded Cab Franc: http://www.pindar.net/ Mon Jan 26 08:59:32 -0800 2009 4357357 16011 oolah 1 4358457 If you like the more Chinon styles of wines there are a few Washington State producers that do a good job. Chinook's Cab Franc is pretty consistent vintage to vintage and quite tasty. Also, look for any wines made from the Portteus Vineyards. Portteus makes one themselves, but they also sell grapes to quite a few other people. Chatter Creek also makes one that is well thought of, but it's a little more new world in style. Mon Jan 26 09:06:34 -0800 2009 4357357 86802 vanillagorilla 1 4358871 I, too, like Pride Mountain Cab Franc. They' defnitely will not be confused with Old world stuff, but I like them for what they are. I've not had many experience with New World CFs, but another one that I chanced upon and bought a few of are the 1999 and the 2001 Haven's Bourriquot from Napa. Pretty good stuff, cheaper than Pride, but worth seeking out, imho. Mon Jan 26 11:06:02 -0800 2009 4357357 10578 RCC 2 4359539 I'm a big fan of the Haven's wines (although I wonder how much longer that will be the case since I understand that Michael is no longer involved in any capacity). The Bourriquot had a fair bit of merlot in it, I think. Mon Jan 26 14:08:57 -0800 2009 4358871 31795 ibstatguy 1 4360211 I recall enjoying Trefethen Cabernet Franc way back when but I prefer sticking with Chinon believe it or not. Mon Jan 26 17:35:58 -0800 2009 4357357 26180 Chinon00 2 4360895 trust me, I like the french cab francs but I was curious what folks had to say about those from "here". I got hooked on Pam Starr's wine quite a while ago and was wondering about what I might be missing. Mon Jan 26 21:57:08 -0800 2009 4360211 31795 ibstatguy 1 4361046 I really enjoy the Bellentine Cab Franc. Tue Jan 27 00:38:15 -0800 2009 4357357 127190 Cancuk 1 4361047 In a league completely and totally of its own: 1990's Dalla Valle 'Maya' (excluding the 1998). Probably my favorite wines ever produced in the New World. Other than that: Soter (OR) Crocker and Starr Haven's Bourriquot (though I've not had any recent vintages) Pride (though this tastes nothing like Cab Franc -- it is just Foley being Foley... and I think it is better than the basic Cab Sauvignon or Merlot... but they all pretty much taste the same.) FWIW: My favorite Cab Franc in the world is not French, but Italian: Quintarelli Alzero Tue Jan 27 00:38:44 -0800 2009 4357357 50041 whiner 2 4361361 But is it fair to call "Maya" a Cabernet Franc? It certainly CONTAINS Cab Franc, but it's always in a blend with Cabernet Sauvignon (which, IIRC, is a higher percentage than the CF). Regardless of the percentages, it is never a varietal wine but rather a proprietary one. Of course the same is true of the Havens Bourriquot -- it's a proprietary wine, rather than a varietal, but at least here, it's a Cabernet Franc and Merlot blend, with the former always in a dominant role. Cheers, Jason Tue Jan 27 06:34:57 -0800 2009 4361047 28122 zin1953 3 4367994 >>But is it fair to call "Maya" a Cabernet Franc? It certainly CONTAINS Cab Franc, but it's always in a blend with Cabernet Sauvignon (which, IIRC, is a higher percentage than the CF). Regardless of the percentages, it is never a varietal wine but rather a proprietary one.<< Fair enough... I think the Maya's I've loved have all been about 50/50 CF/CS and, to me, like the Bourriquot they deffinitely taste of having a high percentage of CF in them. But you are *certainly* right that it is a proprietary blend, and sometimes slightly higher in CS. Wed Jan 28 20:43:15 -0800 2009 4361361 50041 whiner 2 4361673 Whiner - any idea who imports the Alzero? Tue Jan 27 08:17:02 -0800 2009 4361047 31795 ibstatguy 3 4363607 I believe it's Robert Chadderdon. Tue Jan 27 16:40:00 -0800 2009 4361673 28122 zin1953 4 4367992 Yep yep. Chadderdon it be. Wed Jan 28 20:41:17 -0800 2009 4363607 50041 whiner 2 4470532 Just sold a vertical of 1986 through 1993 alzero, his stuff, all of it, are my favorites wines in world. If you ever get a chance to try his amandorlato, oh my. Tue Mar 03 15:03:02 -0800 2009 4361047 71113 Delucacheesemonger 3 4588647 Delucacheesemonger, as the winemaking at Quintarelli is being passed down from the grand master to the nephew, Bellini, what differences if any have you detected in the overall approach? I have a few left of a case of '95 Ca de Merlo, of which the currently available vintages are about twice what I paid, so I've pretty much resigned myself to being excluded from the Quintarelli wing of earthly delights. Curious to know what I'll be missing, of course, thanks. Sat Apr 11 23:45:20 -0700 2009 4470532 11012 moto 4 4636534 Being all of mine were from Giuseppe, all from early 80's through 97, hard to compare to new as only had one, a valpolicella riserva and seemed light compared to others, may just be my palate is sinking as well, so cannot be sure. Had a CdM a while ago, do not know which of the gang made it but was very light. His older stuff is not for food, old cheese and fruitcake maybe, but it is and was a meal on it's own. Drank a 90 Amarone two weeks ago, was amazing, still fresh and monstrous. Although not Cab Franc, as Dal Forno is as expensive as Q, try a Thomas Bussola if you can find it, much less expensive and almost just as concentrated. Have a mixed case of Q left, keep getting offers. Tue Apr 28 13:06:38 -0700 2009 4588647 71113 Delucacheesemonger 1 4363638 My two favorites are Keenan (CA) and Owen Roe (WA). I had a 2005 Owen Roe Rosa Mystica Cab Franc Saturday night and it was fantastic. Tue Jan 27 16:52:34 -0800 2009 4357357 50082 TonyO 1 4367402 I'm more partial to Old World from the Loire Valley, however last year I had a few bottles of Cosentino's Cab France simply called "Franc." It was a great retail price, $12.99, and it tasted fantastic with some great meat-based dishes. I've also had some good new world ones from Uruguay and Southern Brazil which were lighter in alcohol than some of the California Ones. Wed Jan 28 17:11:48 -0800 2009 4357357 251260 vinhotinto75 2 4467348 For evryday type cab francs (under$20) Lang and Reed, and yorkville Cellars Mon Mar 02 16:18:36 -0800 2009 4367402 161815 Ichewonthis 3 4471213 Please let me know where you buy the Lang and Reed for under $20, and which vintage. I love their Cab Franc. Thanks. Tue Mar 03 18:54:40 -0800 2009 4467348 24120 pjaym17 4 4471664 If you're not familiar with wine-searcher here are close to 20 retailers <$20. Their 'pro-version' would show even more but you have to have a subscription. Tue Mar 03 23:18:04 -0800 2009 4471213 11405 Midlife 1 4467653 If you can should find yourself in the Healdsburg area, make an appointment at Acorn Winery and try their Cab Franc. Some vintages are completely mind-blowing and it's always good. This is a very old property with lots of varieties planted on it. The owners are great and we've loved their wines for years. They do a version of a field blend too that's based on their own Zinfandel & Syrah, with several other varieties blended in...... VERY GOOD! Mon Mar 02 17:51:54 -0800 2009 4357357 11405 Midlife 1 4470465 I'm big fan of the Paso Robles region, and Chateau Margene makes my favorite new world Cab Franc, hands down. Tue Mar 03 14:47:11 -0800 2009 4357357 172490 Matt Esq. 2 4478824 Want an over the top fruit bomb from Paso, check out Tobin James! -mJ Fri Mar 06 05:19:11 -0800 2009 4470465 192452 njfoodies 2 4480553 didn't see anything on their web site about a Cab Franc bottling; is it only available at the winery? Fri Mar 06 14:03:25 -0800 2009 4470465 31795 ibstatguy 3 4480589 They've made a James Gang Reserve Cab Franc in the past. The 2005 was a club member selection. Probably gone now but stay tuned. These guys really do pack a lot of wallop in a bottle at generally reasonable prices. Fri Mar 06 14:12:22 -0800 2009 4480553 11405 Midlife 1 4481136 Hard to find in the US, but I am proud of our Ontario Cab Francs, which are more Old World in style (Bourgeuil comes closest in my mind). Light to medium-bodied, moderately tannic. Sour cherry fruit, with hints of spice, bell pepper, and (not to everyone`s liking) barnyard. Most Ontario wineries produce good to excellent examples. The more mainstream ones (Inniskillin, Jackson-Triggs, Hildebrant) have greater New World sensibilities; smaller producers (Strewn, Lenko) let it rip with a full-on trip to an Ontario game farm. Worth a try, if you get a chance. While you are there, try the Gamay. Fri Mar 06 17:35:28 -0800 2009 4357357 123801 zamorski 2 4481900 Had one a few years back from Ontario that do to some sort of evaporation through the barrel, came out at 17.5% alcohol, a behemoth and was really wonderful, was a 2002 bought in 05. Ravenswood also has a nice one, very brambley. Sat Mar 07 05:53:47 -0800 2009 4481136 71113 Delucacheesemonger 1 4564722 www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/29/FD7816JHKV.DTL; nice article on this varietal in the SF Chron Fri Apr 03 10:50:36 -0700 2009 4357357 31795 ibstatguy 2 4564954 I couldn't get your link to work but this is the url I copied from the article itself: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/29/FD7816JHKV.DTL&hw=cabernet+franc&sn=001&sc=1000 Fri Apr 03 11:58:24 -0700 2009 4564722 11405 Midlife 1 4586369 I had a Ravenswood Cab Franc a while back. Can't remember the vintage. It was really very good. Fri Apr 10 21:53:57 -0700 2009 4357357 206877 jpc8015 2 4636514 Just got two cases at $7.50/bottle of the 2004 and the 2002, love it. Tue Apr 28 13:00:59 -0700 2009 4586369 71113 Delucacheesemonger 1 4588573 I have read through all the responses to the original post and I am very surprised nobody has mentioned Larkin. The last two vintages that I have tasted 04 and 05 have been absolutely incredible (06 is being released soon I hear). The wine has incredible concentration with out being overly extracted, alcohol is balanced and the wine has incredible elegance. Check out their website: http://www.larkinwines.com/ Certainly not at the bottom of the food chain in terms of price, but well worth the money. Sat Apr 11 22:17:52 -0700 2009 4357357 265364 arbanne 1 4638018 I can't say I've had too many cab francs, but of those that stand out: Paradigm of Oakville and Dorigo of Colli Orientali del Friuli. Tue Apr 28 23:43:39 -0700 2009 4357357 195409 Utahinboston