590196 Fri Jan 23 10:47:17 -0800 2009 22 41 Cookware 0 4351220 I am finally buying a new dishwasher. I searched the boards but did not find anything recent about reliable dishwashers! I am looking to spend between 600. and 1,000 bucks. I cook all the time and we often have dinner parties. Thanks! Fri Jan 23 10:47:17 -0800 2009 11408 melly 1 4351499 ? do you need height etc for stem ware,I wanted the ability to wash some stuff nearly soapless with plenty of heat ect When I went looking the decision to not use it for huge bowls,platters and pans had been made.So I then carried around some daily use stemware and a place setting of the 3 china sets we use most.My last dish washer was a pig with lipstick to load and unload.HATED IT so we settled on mielle here and elecltrolux at the beach.There were at least 3 more equal,except in $$.Purchased both based on best deal at the time. Fri Jan 23 12:04:14 -0800 2009 4351220 203919 lcool 1 4351963 You first need to decide if you want european, or american. American brands will generally have a food grinder, and a heater for drying. For this reason, they are generally more noisy. European brands will generally have no food grinder (instead, they will have a trap or screen that may need cleaning or emptying,) and no heater for drying. They are generally much quieter, but do not dry as quickly. Many consider the food grinder thing a non issue, but it may be an issue if you do not clean your dishes well before putting them in the DW. After the cycle is done, you might not be able to go from dw to cabinet in a euro brand. Very good chance everything will still be wet. After choosing amer or euro, then get into the options: 1. Adjustable upper rack. - good for tall wine glasses, or maybe loading a big load of plates on BOTH top and bottom 2. floating silverware tray. 3. Pot scrubber. (Will probably add more noise. And is also going to be only ONE specific area that you can put the things that need to be scrubbed) 4. Control panel location. - sure, it might look sleek/slick to get the control panel on top of the door facing UP, but it might be a PAIN to get to - read many complaints about this. I just bought appliances for a full gut remodel, and spent a good amt of time researching all appliances, forums, consumer reports, etc. I spent a few months researching. I went with: American adjustable top rack Pot scrubber control panel on FRONT I think for Euro brands, the best play for value:performance goes to bosch. For rapid washing (big dinner parties) I think Miele makes a model that uses the rinse water from the previous wash to start the wash for the next load. If I was you, I'd start out by looking at Bosch, Electrolux, and Miele for Euro brands. Electrolux seems to pack more options in for the price. Miele might stretch your top end budget a little, but you can certainly find sales. For American, you might wanna start with Kenmore, and Kitchenaid. I do believe that Consumer Reports had like more than two Kenmores in their top ten dishwasher list IIRC. For 600 to 1000 bux, however, you won't be killing yourself over your options. It's basically going to boil down to quietness vs the need for a drying cycle. And the new American models are pretty darn quiet these days which is why I went with American. Also, the food grinder feature swayed me even though I read and heard that for the most part, it wouldn't really matter. The thing that I HAVE heard is that the machine will clog up if a particle slips past the EUro brands' food screens. I just opted to not have to maybe deal with that. If you do go Euro, check the model to see how easy it is to get to the food trap/screen for cleaning/ emptying. GO TO A STORE that has that model on display, and remove the screen yourself. Some are more difficult than others, and might turn out to be a pain that you just don't wanna deal with. The bosch and elolux models I was looking at were easy, and both in your price range. Fri Jan 23 14:40:15 -0800 2009 4351220 111530 gordeaux 1 4352272 I got a whirlpool gold a few years ago for the low end of your budget. No complaints so far. I just scrape my dishes of large chunks and they come out spotless. Even baked on cheese and sauce disappears. Of course, your detergent is a big factor as well (I use the Electrosol power tabs). Can't help you with the hoity toity models. I can't see spending a G on a dishwasher. And, FWIW, the $400-600 models almost always score higher on Consumer Reports than the $1000-1500 models. Oh, and while consumer reports generally rates a couple of kenmore appliances very well in almost all categories, the fact that Sears changes their model numbers every year and you can rarely find the models that are mentioned in the CR reviews, I've mostly stopped buying kenmore models on principle. Kenmore's are typically Whirlpool anyways. Fri Jan 23 16:28:07 -0800 2009 4351220 193486 meadandale 1 4352313 It's a bit over your budget, but worth every penny. I just Wed. had a Miele dishwasher installed. It is fantastic. It has a third tray on top that is for cutlery, a second rack below that is for glassware. It will go up and down, but in the normal position it takes all my wine glasses standing up, and they are not small glasses. It also holds 14 place settings. I ran it for the first time this afternoon, and I couldn't believe how beautiful the wine glasses came out, along with the silverware. I bought the bottom of the line, and it was about $1,300, which included installation. With Miele, you have to have someone that is authorized by them do the installation, plus I received a two year warranty, from the store that I purchased it from. They removed a Kenmore that I hated. Fri Jan 23 16:46:31 -0800 2009 4351220 115579 Mother of four 1 4353510 I have a Bosch that fits into the lower end of your price range, and I love it. I've had it for about 8 months, and I couldn't be happier. One of the things I most like about it is it has a short wash option, in about 35 minutes my dishes are clean. We use Seventh Generation powder w/Jet Dry rinse agent, and the only thing that did not come clean in that 35 minutes was a lasagna pan. There are many other wash options, pots & pans, china, regular wash. It has a SS interior so it uses the residual heat from the wash to dry the dishes, although it has a heated dry option. The upper rack can be moved up and down and the silverware basket can be moved as well. It does not have a food grinder so we have to clean out the trap, and I think we clean it out at most once a month. I remember all the research I did before we bought our dw, and all the headaches it gave me. We were trying to decide between the Bosch we bought and, if I remember correctly an LG, like I said earlier we couldn't be happier with our decision. Good luck and let me know if I can be of any more assistance. Sat Jan 24 08:37:02 -0800 2009 4351220 11327 lizzy 1 4353846 If you're into parties, get a Bosch. We have one that's pretty quiet. For everyday use and if you don't want to pack a big dishwasher prior to using, get the double dishdrawers by Fisher and Paykel (has attachment for wine glasses). We have this too installed at our house. The Bosch will run about $700 and the F+P about $1200. Sat Jan 24 10:56:50 -0800 2009 4351220 183966 trvlcrzy 1 4353942 Short answer: Bosch. Long answer: http://www.consumersearch.com/dishwasher-reviews Sacramento-specific note: check out Filco on Fulton Avenue. They'll occasionally buy the distributor's remaining stock of last year's model and sell them at a heavy discount. Another Sacramento-specific note: You can get $50 each from SMUD and PG&E if you buy a high-efficiency dishwasher. http://www.smud.org/en/rebates/documents/dishwasher_2009_factsheet.pdf http://www.pge.com/myhome/saveenergymoney/rebates/appliance/dish/ Sat Jan 24 11:38:12 -0800 2009 4351220 58743 alanbarnes 2 4355352 Two years ago when my 35 year old G.E. bit the dust, we found that we were very restricted in our choices. My counter was 1/4" too short for the American models. That's right l/4 inch! The only choices we had were Bosch and Mielle. I did some research, and read more good things about the Mielle than the Bosch I think it was about $1,200, which was more than we had planned on paying, but had no choice unless we ripped out the counters. I am so glad that we chose the Mielle. At first I didn't like that you had to lay the silverware out on the top tray - it seemed a nuisance after being used to the silverware basket. After a few days, someone told me the secret,( I'm a little slow at times) - put all of the forks together, likewise the other pieces. Then all you have to do is scoop up the forks, etc.. and put them in the drawer. I had been putting them in randomly. I absolutely love the my Mielle, it's quiet (not a deal breaker for me) and does an excellent job of cleaning and drying. Sun Jan 25 04:43:52 -0800 2009 4353942 175667 Canthespam 3 4356484 Ditto to everything. All I can say is that you'll get my Miele appliances out of my cold, dead hands. In fact, I love my Miele dw & vac so much that I bought a Miele cooktop & oven which I also love. They were purchased to replace the Dacor cooktop & oven which I hated...oven took FOREVER to come to temp & the cooktop was the definition of wimpy compared to my beloved Miele. bleh And, btw, if you ever need service (highly questionable) Miele service is fantastic. They come when they say they'll come & they fix stuff the FIRST time. I only know this because I owned my first Miele dw for twenty-five years, ran it to death, & had TWO service calls in all that time. Sun Jan 25 13:49:10 -0800 2009 4355352 11069 fauchon 2 4355374 I agree with Alan and others: Bosch. And I got the floor model, which was fine by me. Save a few hundred $$$'s! The only thing that may steer anyone away, is the screen that needs to be cleaned. For me it's not an issue because I rinse my dishes before I place them in the dishwasher. Two of the things that stand out for me are: Stainless Steel interior and how quiet it is. And Alan, thanks for the consumsers website, it's now in my favorites. Sun Jan 25 05:08:21 -0800 2009 4353942 15691 mcel215 3 4359379 I've had my Bosch for a little under a year, less than $700, not the hidden controls. Love it, quiet and gets everything very clean (SS interior too), I do wish there was a little more flexibilty for flatware and stemware, would be my only, very minor, complaint. Mon Jan 26 13:16:24 -0800 2009 4355374 91237 hollerhither 1 4355690 Also look at Sweden's ASKO. We liked their tray arrangment better than the more popular European DWs. Super quiet, too. Sun Jan 25 08:38:38 -0800 2009 4351220 44591 GeezerGourmet 1 4355814 I have a Kenmore Elite - cost about $1000 a couple of years ago (canada). It's dead quiet when running (I have to put a stickie note on it when it's running so my husband doesn't open it), has an adjustable top rack which accommodates my wine glasses and cleans really well without pre-rinsing. Since we live in a semi-rural area, it would have been ridiculous to buy a European appliance because none of the yahoos around here would be able to service it. I have been told that the newer Kenmore Elite (the Elite part is important because they are a superior machine) is made by Bosch. You also have to specify the level of sound-insulation. I went with the most expensive option because I wanted it to be quiet. My only complaints - Sears service can be horrible. And the cutlery basket isn't very durable. I've had it replaced twice already. Sun Jan 25 09:29:45 -0800 2009 4351220 12383 Nyleve 1 4358782 I've had 2 Fishcer Paykel dish drawers for around 8 years. works great for parties and for when it's just the two of us. For the 2 of us, it takes about 1/2 a week to fill 1 drawer. For Thanksgiving [ 12 people] one load, both drawers did it all. It took a little while to learn all the quirks.... like always load dinner plates on the right side. And I usually do pots by hand, but the drawer will do a very good job if you take out the 2 racks... It's also VERY quiet. Mon Jan 26 10:39:01 -0800 2009 4351220 260638 helena handbasket 2 4360726 In our tiny townhome, we have the one FP dishdrawer which we use almost everyday. For our thanksgiving with 8 people, we ran the dishwasher twice. Probably in your case, I would recommend the two dishdrawers. I've had no problems with our FP which get frequent use. Mon Jan 26 20:38:28 -0800 2009 4358782 12873 OCAnn 1 4361366 You're just going to have to go shop. There are lots of options out there. Lots of options. Lots. Asking for dishwasher advice here is like asking what beer is the best. It simply can't be answered. The options are nearly endless. You have to decide what you like, what you want, and what is necessary. For instance, can you do stainless steel? Do you want to? Do you have little 3 year olds that like to push dishwasher buttons? If so, the post suggesting buttons being on top are a pain is completely wrong. Buttons on top keep little ones from screwing with the controls and are a blessing. What store might be offering a better deal that weekend? What store might be offering a better warranty? What's a better price? If one store carries one brand and another store carries a different brand then what do you do? My suggestion is go and find 2 or 3 that you like and that you want. Then come back and ask very specific questions about very specific dishwashers. That's the only way you're going to get any good help. Otherwise, people here are going to rant and rave about their beloved Bosch. Or their Meile. Or their Kitchen Aid... etc. and you'll be left wondering what band wagon to jump on. Good luck! Tue Jan 27 06:35:45 -0800 2009 4351220 42270 HaagenDazs 2 4375630 >>You have to decide what you like, what you want, and what is necessary. For instance, can you do stainless steel? Do you want to?<< Can't agree with you on this one. The color of the front panel should be the last of the concerns addressed. The FUNCTIONS should be the main concern - then order what color you want. Also, most appliance stores will be able to order ANY brand. Sears, of course might have a stronghold on Kenmore. To clarify about buttons on top, you are absolutely right - little hands might want to know what the dw buttons on the front will do - VERY good note. The complaints I read about were that when the dw is running, to stop it, getting to the panel can be a major pain. While I have no experience with this being a pain, I did take that into consideration when buying - since I have semi chubby sausage fingers. It might be a pain for me to try and slide a finger between the dw and counter to hit a button. Sat Jan 31 11:22:48 -0800 2009 4361366 111530 gordeaux 3 4375639 >>You have to decide what you like, what you want, and what is necessary. For instance, can you do stainless steel? Do you want to?<< That poster might have meant stainless steel tub as opposed to plastic tub, not the outside appearance. Sat Jan 31 11:30:23 -0800 2009 4375630 10753 Philly Ray 1 4368811 Use Consumer Reports' recommendations as a guide and take with you when you shop. They saved me a bundle on a new gas range several years ago. I was considering a high-end professional one until I saw how poorly they fared in their ratings. I ended up with a top-rated, far cheaper and better GE profile professional style, which I love. Same thing recently with vacuum cleaners. There is often little correlation between price and performance and CR is a good, non-biased third party. Thu Jan 29 07:49:01 -0800 2009 4351220 110897 City Kid 2 4370000 Stainless LG inexpensive, very quiet and it cleans the dishes we too have a lot of dinner parties and this seems to work well Thu Jan 29 12:24:29 -0800 2009 4368811 167645 Yellowshirt 3 4380666 I've not been at all satisfied with my Kitchenaid, and it was about $1000. Customer service has been awful too! Mon Feb 02 11:41:57 -0800 2009 4370000 151402 MommyTwingle 4 4380724 I wrote about this on another thread, but I'm going to repeat it here. My mom also spent $1K on ker 4 yr old KA DW and she's not satisfied with it's performance either. From my perspective, it wasn't designed well, case in point being the thinner-than-shoelace cords that are the ONLY thing keeping the door from crashing open if it's not locked. I swear, it looks like Fred Flintstone engineered this thing. And customer service IS awful - they could care less about customer issues, even if it's an issue that is frequently brought to their attention. That said, I myself am going to need a new DW soon (we've been in our house 13 yrs - still using the Frigidaire that came with - and I'm pretty sure that this thing was at least 5 yrs old when we moved in...probably a lot older, but it's still kicking. Anyway, I am not spending anywhere near 1K on a DW. I think it's ridiculous. But I'm looking at Whirlpools because of the performance/value issue and my understanding is that KAs/Whirlpools are made by the same company now. I don't know if it's possible to win this game... Mon Feb 02 11:54:58 -0800 2009 4380666 63569 flourgirl