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AYCE Food rule enforcement?


Buddy and I are regulars at our local IHOP. He ordered his breakfast with the special all you can eat pancakes deal. After finishing the first round, the waitress asked him if he wanted more pancakes and he said yes. She brought three more. That was one more than he could eat, so he gave it to me. Just as I was finishing it, the waitress came by and scolded us for sharing, which is not allowed for AYCE specials.

We were not trying the game the system, which seemed to be what she implied. We just didn't want to see the food go to waste. Anyway, this laid a bad vibe on the scene. One of the reasons we frequent this place is because of the friendly, welcoming atmosphere, which has now been besmirched.

Am I wrong to feel slighted?

  1. sharuf, sharuf, sharuf! goodness alive, man! you write here to chow to say you were slighted by getting a bad vibe at ihop?!?!?!

    man up, dude!

    8 Replies
    1. re: alkapal

      Wassamattah A, you got a bad IHOP where you're at? The service and attitude at my local branch couldn't be better. And on Sundays, it's jammed with families who feel right at home.

      Anyway, I'm not a dude. I'm an old br---, er, an elderly lady.

      1. re: Sharuf

        wassamatta u, sharuf? i think you are trying to be funny about feeling "slighted" for such an insignificant event. that is, i think your post is a spoof.

        1. re: alkapal

          The waitress had a cop-like attitude, when she should have been more polite about it. This can be offensive, especially to regular customers who are accustomed to being welcomed and treated in a polite and friendly manner.

          1. re: Sharuf

            The waitress is possibly used to the "golden agers" stuffing their pockets with AYCE pancakes, plus sugar packets, toilet paper from the restroom, and then the tea bags from the beverage bar.

            Some AYCE places are very anal about their rules. Like playing pool in a town, that is new to you, or on a golf course, at which you have never played - get the rules and follow them to the letter.


            1. re: Bill Hunt

              "Like playing pool in a town, that is new to you, or on a golf course, at which you have never played - get the rules and follow them to the letter."

              or when driving off interstate through a one-stoplight town, with a 25 mph speed limit and a hungry sheriff who is also town comptroller. ;-).

        2. re: Sharuf

          ***Anyway, I'm not a dude. I'm an old br---, er, an elderly lady***

          Thank god. I thought my radar was broken! '-)

          1. re: Sharuf

            ok, then....woman-up!

            what had you ordered, anyway?

            1. re: alkapal

              I recommend their crepes. I had their garden-stuffed crepes, with extra hollandaise sauce, please.

        3. All of the AYCE places I've ever gone to do have two rules: One is that you don't share food UNLESS the other person is on the AYCE program too, and second, NO doggy bags. Yes, it does seem to promote waste, but I can also see the logic to it.

          1. Yes, you have no reason to feel slighted. You're entirely in the wrong on this.

            25 Replies
            1. re: ccbweb

              It was the waitress' call to bring three pancakes. We weren't trying to promote a surplus.

              1. re: Sharuf

                why didn't your buddy say, "please only bring me one or two -- i'm not that hungry"?

                you say you are regulars there?

                1. re: alkapal

                  He probably thought she was going to bring only one or two.

                  1. re: Sharuf

                    thats odd as the ads etc are pretty clear that they bring three at a time.

                    1. re: KaimukiMan

                      yeah, the three count pancake "refill" was very clear on their deal promotion. that specificity struck me particularly because i'd heard stories on other threads about people asking for more in AYCE deals at places like applebee's or red lobster. they'd get progressively lesser amounts, and those "seconds" (or thirds) were sloooow to get to the customer.

                2. re: Sharuf

                  Nonetheless, it's pretty clear for anyone who has been in an all you can eat establishment (and clearly if you're regulars there, you have been) that if one of you orders the AYCE and the other doesn't then the second person doesn't eat from the first's AYCE options. Period.

                  If you were still hungry, you should have ordered and paid for pancakes (or whatever you chose to eat).

                  1. re: ccbweb

                    I agree with what you said, but IHOP is not an AYCE establishment. From the commercials it appears that the pancake AYCE is a special. therefore the rules on sharing might not have been as clear.

                    I would think that since Sharuf is a regular and an "elderly lady", the waitress could have been nicer (not scold) or just looked the other way.

                    1. re: viperlush

                      Age and gender should ave influence over how diners are treated?

                      1. re: invinotheresverde

                        Yes, sometimes it should. I don't think that a grown woman (or man) should be scolded. Scolding to me is what one does to a child, not an adult. Only Sharuf knows the tone that the waitress used, but any tone to me that is described as "scolding" I think is inappropriate in this situation. Unless the server said something earlier or the AYCE rules were spelled out on the menu, Sharuf didn't go out of her way to skirt the rules. Therefore the server should have used a more respectful tone or just let it slide.

                        1. re: viperlush

                          If a grown woman or man is breaking an establishent's rules, it is well within the right of an employee to let the person know. Hopefully it's done politely.

                          I'm still confused about why the waitress should've looked the other way because the OP is both elderly and female.

                          1. re: invinotheresverde

                            Exactly, let them know in a polite manner. "Scolding" doesn't come across as polite to me. In the OP's case I think the server should have shown more respect (tone, language) to the OP because she is a regular and an elderly person (woman in this case).

                            It's not like the OP was part of a group of teenage males ordering plates and plates of pancakes, passing them around when the waitress isn't looking. Knowing what the rules are, but blatantly breaking them and purposely trying to scam IHOP. The OP's Buddy couldn't finish his second helping so the OP (an elderly woman) ate one. Assuming that the OP didn't know that she couldn't eat the pancake (why would she have posted on Chowhound if she did know?) and because her Buddy didn't order additional plates, why not just look the other way? It is really worth it to upset a regular over a minor infraction of the AYCE rule.

                            1. re: viperlush

                              As we weren't there, we really can decipher what "scolding" meant. It could've been polite or not.

                              I'm pretty sure that a) it's common sense that two people can't share one AYCE option and b) this was posted on the menu/table-tent/etc.

                              I think the reason the waitress mentioned anything is because other customers notice everything. If another table saw OP sharing and the waitress looking the other way, what's to stop them from pitching a fit when told they're not allowed to also do so? The other table doesn't know the OP was just eating the leftovers. It's a slippery slope.

                          2. re: viperlush

                            children shouldn't be scolded either, especially not by waiters and other strangers

                            1. re: thew

                              children shouldn't be scolded either, especially not by waiters and other strangers

                              I disagree....

                              Both children and their parents should be scolded for allowing bad behavior to persist, e.g., running anywhere within the confines of the restaurant, especially in the dining room near tables and other patrons.......

                              and before you disagree with me, consider what would happen if a child tripped near a table and hit their head , possibly on the corner of the table and directly in their eye......whose fault would it be?

                              1. re: thew

                                Sure they should. Reading the papers and even some of the posts on Chowhound it seems like too many parents aren't scolding enough.

                                1. re: thew

                                  Absolutely they should, if "parents" allow their kid to run wild in a restaurant. A restaurant is a dangerous place full of breakable, sharp, and hot objects. It's not a playground. Any kid who acts as if it's the latter needs to be corrected.

                                  1. re: Leonardo

                                    not by being "scolded" by strangers

                                      1. re: thew

                                        If the parents are negligent in their training of the child, and this child is inflicted on society, then the child should be scolded, as should the parents. It is the parent’s responsibility to train their children. If they fail, then the rest of society should speak up.

                                        Parenting should be done at the home. Barring that, then it’s up to the “village,” to take the responsibility for it. Along the way, maybe the parents can also be trained, as it would appear that they, too, were lacking.

                                        If society has to take responsibility for these children, in lieu of parental guidance, they should also have the power to do something about it. Considering the courts’ rulings on liability responsibility), the other side is power to do something about it.

                                        If I am held responsible for something, I fully intend to be empowered to do something about it.


                                        1. re: Bill Hunt

                                          Please, address the parents and ONLY the parents. You are not related to that child and you ARE NOT a member of the tribe.

                                          And please understand that this is coming from someone who only takes her child to child-friendly restaurants (hoo-boy, is that getting old) and has requested that the meal be boxed after apps are done if the little one doesn't seem like he can handle the public space much longer.

                                          I do my damndest to make sure my child doesn't interfere with others when dining but that doesn't mean I won't kick your &*#! if you were to approach him negatively.

                                          1. re: sebetti

                                            Well, that totally depends. I have been the victim of some absolutely terrible children. If parents want children that behave that way, let them do it at home!

                                            I was once entering a doctor's large waiting room. I had had recent surgery on one foot and was totally reliant on crutches. As I was crossing to room to the nurses station to sign in, a child of about five came running over (from his parents) and grabbed one of my crutches, nearly knocking me down. I took the crutch back angrily and scolded the child with a "Don't do that!" The parents scolded me for scolding the child, so I returned the favor with a tongue lashing about allowing children to recklessly endanger others. The parents were still angry, but a nurse came out and told them they would have to control their child or leave.

                                            There are situations when I truly believe it is well within my right and a personal obligation to scold a child I've never seen before.

                                            Come to think of it, I once slammed on my brakes when a three year old intentionally ran out in front of my car and stood there sticking her tongue out at me while her mother was hand watering the flowers. I got out of my car and spanked the child. The mother thanked me. I'd rather spank the child than kill it.

                                        2. re: thew

                                          Better to be scolded by strangers at a restaurant rather than by a judge at sentencing.

                                    1. re: viperlush

                                      My MIL counts on people like you (not being snarky). She uses the little old elderly lady card whenever and wherever she can. University of Richmond has a Sunday buffet & she and my FIL would show up and she'd have her Tupperware in tow. Not only is the buffet not open to the public, she'd take home plenty for her and FIL and when someone would say something to her, she'd smile that elderly lady smile and pretend she didn't understand. She uses it as a manipulation tool (not saying the person at IHOP did, but it just made me think of my scheming MIL).

                                  2. re: viperlush

                                    The question of tone of the waitress is one I can't answer and certainly I hope that everyone is respectful when speaking to anyone else. It often isn't the case and that's always too bad.

                                    Beyond that, though, when it is, in fact, a regular it may actually be more important to say something as that person may otherwise settle into that behavior and come to expect that he or she may share AYCE pancakes with their dining partner without issue. A much better way to go would be for the regular to ask the waitress about eating the final pancake in which case the waitress may say "ok, but just this time, we're not allowed to let people share these normally. If you want fewer pancakes next time, just let me know." Or perhaps the waitress would have offered to bring one fresh pancake on the house to the regular customer. Ultimately, this isn't something that I would stop going somewhere because of nor worry about too long if I were the customer.

                                    1. re: ccbweb

                                      Communication of both sides is important. The best would be for the server to say something when taking the order so that people know upfront that they can't share. Or for the customer to do what you suggested.

                                      This discussion reminds me of all the threads about plate sharing fees.

                            2. Sorry old dudette :-)), and jfood says that affectionately, the waitress was in the right about sharing, but only you were there to hear the tone and verbiage.

                              But you should have learned for next time versus taking it as an insult. Sort of like taking a second freebie at Costco and the server tells you only one to a customer. Place your tail between you legs, smile, walk away slowly and move on with life, never to repeat the guffaw.

                              1 Reply
                              1. re: jfood

                                Sharuf: While I concur with your desire to not waste food, you were totally wrong to do it. They have their rules for sound reasons. Please respect that. So I suggest you get over your bruised feelings, admit you were wrong, and stop blaming others for your mistake.

                              2. Sorry I was a waitress for years. Yes I know the rules but come on. No food to waste, it isn't like you commited a crime. My god. The waitress should of just looked the other way. No harm done. Is this what society has come too. No. You did as I would of. Sorry, but I think the waitress was wrong and you shouldn't feel bad about what you did.

                                4 Replies
                                1. re: kchurchill5

                                  " The waitress should of just looked the other way. No harm done."

                                  the waitress has to answer to her manager, doesn't she?
                                  what of others observing this and doing the same thing?
                                  why is it the waitress' "responsibility" to look the other way (ignore the rules), and not sharuf's responsibility -- and the buddy -- to abide by the rules?

                                  the waitress was right and sharuf was wrong, as to substance.

                                  could the waitress' style be better? i don't know, as i wasn't there. but sharuf is upset on two levels, style and substance. however, because sharuf is completely wrong on substance, she has a lot less room to complain about style.

                                  1. re: alkapal

                                    Then the manager shouldn't be a manager. You didn't originally share, just finishing up the plate. My god, I was a manager of a restaurant for 10 years. I would of sided with the waitress if she looked the other way. A bit different if you originally got 1 plate and shared ... that wasn't the case. The waitress should of handled it better and the manager shouldn't be in that position he would be like that. Sometimes you just got to be a bit compassionate and understanding. I guess that is why the country is so screwed up these days because people forgot how to have feelings.

                                    1. re: kchurchill5

                                      um, we still don't know what sharuf ordered....

                                      and the manager shouldn't be a manager because she expects the waitress to enforce the restaurant's rules? now THAT position is the problem with our country -- it's all about "feeeeeeelings" -- emotionalism over rationality.

                                    2. re: alkapal

                                      The waitress should of just looked the other way. No harm done.


                                      This reminds me of the Free Refills on soft drinks......one beverage ordered for a table of four....and the other three others say.....oh, I'll just have a sip of yours.

                                  2. I have to side with those who say you guys were in the wrong, and yes it was a minor infraction of the rules. She may have gotten a bit gruff when she shouldn't have, on the other hand she didn't charge you guys extra for the pancakes. I suspect she could well have done that. So you got a scolding, big deal.

                                    1. As the saying goes, "Take all you want, but please eat all you take". I personally would have debased your friend for not being able to finish the single pancake. (Seriously, not a federal offense).

                                      1. Wow, I'm really surprised at all these replies! I've never done an "all you can eat" special before -- I actually don't know if I've ever been in a restaurant that has offered one -- but I think my instincts would have slid exactly the way Sharuf's did. If I ordered more pancakes but only finished half, and they were sitting there on my used plate swimming in syrup, obviously bound for the trash, and my dining companion asked "how were the pancakes?" I would TOTALLY be like "great! I'm just too stuffed to finish, you want to try??" And I would be very taken aback if the server then chastized us.

                                        It just seems so strange... whether the pancake goes in the trash or my friend's stomach, I am paying the AYCE price. And my friend who already ordered and consumed another meal is paying the full price of that as well. The restaurant doesn't lose out if I let my friend eat my last pancake.

                                        I don't mean to deny that you all are probably right. I just mean it goes against my instinct, so I can't blame Sharuf for being suprised.

                                        28 Replies
                                        1. re: charmedgirl

                                          The restaurant probably looks on this situation a little differently. One friend gets the AYCE and the other orders something "light" and "inexpensive" and they share the AYCE to the financial detriment of the restaurant.

                                          1. re: Servorg

                                            No, I understand upon thinking it through. It makes total sense from the restaurant policy standpoint. I have no doubt there are people who would game the system if it weren't enforced the way it is. But still, my initial instinct would have been to let my friend finish the pancake, no problem.

                                            1. re: charmedgirl

                                              As long as you see that your basic instinct is gaming the system.

                                              1. re: ccbweb

                                                No, I disagree. The phrase "gaming the system" implies intent. My instinct would not have been rooted in a desire to pull one over on the restaurant and thus would not equal "gaming the system." My instinct would have lead to a rule violation, but the phrase "gaming the system" is an inaccurate descriptor.

                                                If my instinct upon sitting down and being handed menus was "hey friend, why don't I order AYCE pancakes, you order the fruit bowl, and then we share? hee hee, two eating for the price of one, isn't that cool?" then my instinct would be to game the system. Luckily, I'm not a jerk and that isn't the case. :-)

                                                1. re: charmedgirl

                                                  Ok, the end result of acting on the instinct is that the system has been gamed.

                                                  1. re: ccbweb

                                                    Still disagree ccbweb. (You can't change the substance of your implication just by switching to the passive voice. Nice try. ;-) ) The system would be "gamed" if my friend were going to order a pancake but chose not to since she got to eat mine. In my description above that is not (nor, it seems, in Sharuf's posts) the case. Again, the rule of the AYCE policy would be broken, but no gaming went on.

                                                    1. re: charmedgirl

                                                      Actually, I can and did change the substance: I removed intent from the equation.

                                                      It turns out we simply have a different view of what "gaming the system" means. In my mind, gaming the system and breaking the rules/policy are essentially the same thing. I don't mean to assert that it's the only possible way to think about it, though.

                                                      1. re: ccbweb

                                                        <sigh> I don't feel like starting a new (and off topic) argument, so I'll just go on record that I disagree that you "took intent out of the equation" by switching to the passive voice and leave it at that.

                                                        I do agree, however, that it seems our disconnect comes in how we define "game the system." As you are entitled to your view and I am entitled to mine, I am content to leave that argument "as that" as well. So in the word of jfood, "Peace."

                                                        1. re: charmedgirl

                                                          I think the problem cropped up after you said you understood why the restaurant would have this rule, you then went on to add that you would still let your friend have your AYCE left over pancake.

                                                          I don't think it is about whether it's YOU that thinks you are "gaming the system" or not, rather it's the restaurant that sees it as such and forbids the sharing for that reason. So intent on your part (ccweb's point above) is not the question.

                                                          Does that make sense? And I agree, this was handled harshly by the waitress. But unless we know her back story (ie. has management been pounding on her, putting her in fear of her job perhaps? - about this issue, making her hyper vigilant) we really don't have any idea about why she approached the diner the way she did. With unemployment figures where they are these days I can understand why someone would want to be extra careful about not losing their job.

                                                          1. re: Servorg

                                                            No, no, no Servorg! You misunderstood me, then. I did NOT say I understood "but would still let [my] friend have [my] AYCE left over pancake." I said BEFORE I thought about it/before I read this thread, my instinct would have been to let my friend have it. Now that I have thought it through/the point of the policy has been pointed out to me/I understand, I would NOT let my friend eat it. My point in posting was to reassure Sharuf that someone else other than her (and someone who is of reasonable intelligence and moral standards) might not immediately realize that eating her friend's pancake was breaking the rules.

                                                            1. re: charmedgirl

                                                              Sorry for not getting your original point. Then we are in complete agreement and I hope you have a great dinner tonight. Nice chatting with you.

                                                            2. re: Servorg

                                                              While I agree with everything in your first and second paragraph, I would caution that none of us were actually there, except the OP, friend and waitress. What took place in the way of "scolding," should be uncovered in disclosure.

                                                              Had the waitress been rude, that would be another issue. She (or he, as I am not positive of the gender of the waitperson) should be allowed to testify, as to what was said, and also provide information on how this type of incident might, or might not, take place on a daily basis. Without that testimony, we can only conjecture, as to what was said, the tone in which it was said, and any additional aspects of the incident, that might play into the decision on whether it was handled properly, or not.

                                                              Were I the waitperson, I would have kindly, and quietly, pointed out that AYCE is for the person ordering that - only. Though I am not in the service industry, I can see that diplomacy would have been called upon. If one does not know the rules, they can still be guilty. However, in such a situation, I would not feel the need to MAKE them feel guilty - only point out the problem with the decision to share.

                                                              When dining as a couple, my wife and I often "share." I make this clear to the waitperson, and abide by any additional "plating charge," whatever. I also do not like to waste food, and often discuss at length the portion sizes, to avoid such.

                                                              If the OP did not know the policy, I would "hope" that the waitpeson informed them in a nice manner.

                                                              Many restaurants have rules (several active threads on this on CH). I try to play by these, and will observe, or ask, if I am not sure.

                                                              Unfortunately, in our present society, too many feel that if someone paid for something, it's OK to share, like software. "I paid for it, and if I want to give copies to all of my friends, that's alright."

                                                              Rules, and laws, are in place for a reason. It is society’s responsibility to learn these, and abide by them.


                                                              1. re: Bill Hunt

                                                                "She (or he, as I am not positive of the gender of the waitperson)"

                                                                Well, the OP refers to a "waitress" and uses the pronoun "she," so make of that what you will. I'm going with female.

                                                              2. re: Servorg

                                                                ***"But unless we know her back story (ie. has management been pounding on her, putting her in fear of her job perhaps? - about this issue, making her hyper vigilant)"***

                                                                In this particular situation, the manager is a laid-back guy and has a great rapport with his employees.

                                                  2. re: charmedgirl

                                                    Unfortunately, the "system gets gamed," and on an hourly basis. That is what large purses are for, at an AYCE establishment - dining for a few extra meals.

                                                    As one who pays his way everywhere, I see it all too often. "one per customer," becomes six additional. AYCE for one, is meant to feed the other four at the table.

                                                    Sorry, but a restaurant has to consider their livelihood. Why not just offer a “six eat for the price of one - order what you want, share it with your friends, and don’t worry if we’ll still be in business next week?”


                                                    1. re: Bill Hunt

                                                      The inauguration today made me just think what a great country we live in that maybe we have these AYCE opportunities and then no one throws you in jail for small indiscretions.

                                                      When you mentioned "system gets gamed"....immediately the Costco $1.50 hot dog and soda (refill) came to mind. My question is: If I order 2 hot dogs for myself I also get 2 drink cups. Is it OK if I use the one cup to drink my Diet Coke (and refill) with my 2 hot dogs and save the other cup for another time when I just want a drink-- am I "gaming the system" or am I within my rights?

                                                      1. re: monku

                                                        Why don't you ask them what they think? I think it sounds sketchy, but perhaps Costco wouldn't mind. The way to know you're acting ethically is to do so with full transparency.

                                                        1. re: monku

                                                          monku: as if you were two people, each getting a "deal"?

                                                          1. re: monku

                                                            Nice question. Two others for the class:

                                                            1 - Can you give cup #2 to someone else?
                                                            2 - Can you keep the cup inthe car and use it on a return visit?

                                                            Jfood always wondered why people pay extra for a large cup at McD when eating in when all refills are included in the price of a small. Ah those questions that keep you up at night.

                                                            If you ask Costco please report back.

                                                            1. re: jfood

                                                              I've been tempted to ask people for their 2nd cup when they order 2 hot dogs and say they only need one cup.

                                                              I've put my unused 2nd cup in the car to use on a return visit.

                                                              1. re: monku

                                                                technically, i guess you are right to consider it to be as "two people".

                                                                asking for someone else's cup is just plain cheap! not to mention cheesy!

                                                                hauling back your saved cup for another day's visit? hmmmm. would you drink the same amount as you would have on the first day? even if you answer "yes." i still think it is cheap and cheesy! but, i'm sure my opinion is nether here nor there.

                                                                monku, may i ask if your SO is OK with this?

                                                                1. re: monku

                                                                  here's another question.

                                                                  Since jfood does not drink soda or Minute Maid juice, he never takes a cup. He usually grabs a bottle of water from the poland spring cases he just purchased.

                                                                  What to do with that great commodity of a refillable cup. Hmmmm, maybe ebay? :-)

                                                                  1. re: jfood

                                                                    yes -- ebay -- after he etches on it the image of some saint.

                                                      2. re: charmedgirl

                                                        But the restaurant does lose out. If the friend wanted a pancake she should have paid the $1.99 or whatever charge for a side pancake.
                                                        The third pancake was made for a paying customer and included in the AYCE charge. If they chose not to eat it then only the customer would lose out, but that's the risk of AYCE.

                                                        1. re: Lixer

                                                          See above. In my scenario (and, it seems to me, the one described by Sharuf though I can't be sure) my friend would not have ordered the pancake if she hadn't eaten mine. She just would not have had a pancake at all.

                                                          1. re: charmedgirl

                                                            But at the end of the day a pancake was eaten by someone who did not pay for it.

                                                            1. re: Lixer

                                                              That happens everytime someone is on a date and one person pays. The other person gets to eat food they didn't pay for. The restaurant doesn't care who pays, as long as SOMEONE pays. And here, the person who bought the AYCE pancakes paid for the 6 pancakes that were delivered by paying the AYCE price. The pancake was paid for. The restaurant did not lose, assuming, as I believe is the case here and definitely is the case in my scenario above, a sale. The other person would not have ordered any pancakes if they couldn't have eaten the one on the friend's plate.

                                                              The policy is not in place I don't believe to prevent this type of situation. It is in place to prevent people, ahem, gaming the system. (wink to ccbweb!) The policy applies in this type of situation, however, because there is no way the restaurant could police the difference and it would create a slippery slope.

                                                              ...I'm getting pretty tired of this conversation... all I meant to do was reassure Sharuf she's not completely crazy to have been surprised that what she did was breaking the rules.

                                                      3. Fascinating. I was in a situation once w/my husband at an Indian restaurant where you could order off the regular menu or partake in an AYCE lunch buffet. I did the AYCE; husband ordered from the menu. I took enough apps & bread from the buffet for the both of us (deliberately), but afterward we both thought that was the wrong thing to do--that we were cheating the restaurant by not ordering, say, a plate of naan for my husband.

                                                        As for being wasteful, a lot of food can be packed up to go (yes, even a piece of pancake). The best solution here would be for the restaurant to clearly state what the policies are of an AYCE deal.

                                                        1 Reply
                                                        1. re: gloriousfood

                                                          Maybe, we need to resurrect the "Soup Nazi," from Seinfeld, but make them the "Pancake Nazi," or the "Naan Nazi," to make sure that the rules are met.

                                                          Perhaps any, and all, restaurants that have a buffet, or a salad bar, or an AYCE special, should offer up a hard-bound tome on what is allowed, and what is not.

                                                          If my wife orders the buffet, and I go from the menu, I do not expect her to offer me any of her papaya. If I want some, I am free to order a half-papaya from the menu.

                                                          I am so sorry, but it seems only common sense, that AYCE is All YOU Can Eat, not All Everyone at your table Can Eat. i guess that I am just old-fashioned, and cannot see why a restaurant should feed everyone, based on the order of one. I pay for what I get, and doggone well better get what I paid for.

                                                          Other than possibly the tone of the waitperson, I cannot get my head around the problem that so many seem to find here. Color me naive, or just old-school.


                                                        2. Since it doesn't sound like he ordered more pancakes after giving you one, I think I would've felt slighted too. Even though the waitress was following the rules, I don't think in that case it would've been unreasonable to finish all the food given to you. I know it starts a slippery slope-type argument--if you allow one pancake to be shared, why not two, etc.--but if your other experiences with this IHOP have been good, I wouldn't necessarily let this one keep you from returning.

                                                          1. If I every had a waitress scold me like this "Pancake Police" one did I would reflect it in my tip. There are ways of saying things, and scolding someone like a child who just took an extra cookie is not the way to do it.

                                                            How I would have done it though, was waited until the waitress came over, and said "I am so stuffed, but I hate to see food go to waste especially with all the hungry people in the world. would it be alright if my DC had this last one?"

                                                            If the Pancake Police said "NO PANCAKE FOR YOU!" Then I would in turn reply "NO TIP FOR YOU!" If she said "Sorry it is against the rules... you understand" then tip stays But most likely she would say "I don't mind but don't say anything"

                                                            4 Replies
                                                            1. re: gryphonskeeper

                                                              Yes, because goodness knows that if that pancake at an IHOP sits on that plate hungry people everywhere will suffer further. As long as that pancake is eaten, then those hungry people will be better off.


                                                              And "Pancake Police?" Really? Really?

                                                              1. re: ccbweb

                                                                I was trying to be lighthearted about it...

                                                                it is a single pancake. about .04 cents to a restro that charges $12! It was more about the attitude of the server.

                                                                1. re: gryphonskeeper

                                                                  Didn't come off lightheartedly. As I've noted elsewhere in the thread, there's no excuse for being rude on the part of the waitress. All we had on that, though, is "scold" from the OP. Which may have been horribly rude or may have been simply unexpected on the part of the OP.

                                                                  How many pancakes would it be at 4 cents a piece before it would be a problem?

                                                              2. re: gryphonskeeper

                                                                Maybe Fed-X that pancake to Darfur?


                                                              3. I've been reading the replies and seeing calls for a listing of the rules or how the waitress would not receive a tip for her behavior and various other reactions. With the caveat that all people should be polite when speaking with others: goodness but we're just piling on the list of things we expect from restaurants without expecting customers to show any self-awareness or self-restraint or basic acceptable social behavior.

                                                                Beyond which, the IHOP promotional materials for their AYCE pancake offer have the disclaimer "prices are per person." In fact, it also notes that they bring pancakes three at a time. See the website for my local IHOP for an example: http://data.gointranet.com/cgi-bin/un...

                                                                4 Replies
                                                                1. re: ccbweb

                                                                  Never occurred to me to look at the IHOP website before going out for breakfast. Didn't read the special menu insert re the current deals, since I knew what I wanted to order. Didn't realize that Buddy had ordered the endless pancake special, since it looked like one of their regular humongous breakfasts that he usually gets and from which he usually gives me some of his pancake stack when it turns out to be too much for him.

                                                                  Sum-up -- I didn't realize I was committing an infraction.

                                                                  1. re: Sharuf

                                                                    Oh, you certainly needn't have read the website. But it would have been on the posters, on the card on the table, on the menu. You chose not to read them, but the information was very much available everywhere one could reasonably expect it.

                                                                    I don't think it was some horrible thing, but I think the waitress was in the right to say something. If the waitress was rude about it, there's no excuse for that and it sucks that you had to deal with someone being rude. No place for that at all.

                                                                    1. re: Sharuf

                                                                      Ignorance is never a defense.

                                                                      1. re: Sharuf


                                                                        If a restaurant has an All You Can Eat promotion, it may have rules. The rules should be clearly posted, and if they are to be strictly enforced, the manager or wait person should clearly advise you of them and ask if you understand them. As for IHOP automatically bringing over three pancakes, that is their choice. If they wanted to, they could ask the diner (a paying customer) how many they require. I think they have waived their right (if they had one) to object to him giving his left over pancake to a companion. Taking the facts as you've stated them, I don't see any intent on your part to obtain the pancake by trick or false pretenses.

                                                                        The AYCE rule is IHOP's policy; your friend offering you his left over pancake is, at worst, against IHOP's policy. Compare. Intentionally leaving IHOP without paying is against the law.

                                                                        I would look at this incident as a reason to explore my pancake options.

                                                                    2. I've been in more AYCE dining situations than I care to admit, but AYCE fish fry on Friday is very common where I live and, even when it's not written anywhere, it seems to have been written into the Minnesota Bill of Rights that any time you have the opportunity to serve your own pop from the fountain in a restaurant, it's all you can drink.

                                                                      For the most part, in my experience, the server brings the next serving. Usually, but not always, they ask how much more you'd like (in the case of fish, one piece? two pieces? etc.) I've also been in AYCE situations where you serve yourself and are charged for any food you leave behind.

                                                                      ANYWAY, often we go out for dinner and my partner will order the AYCE fish and I will order something else from the menu. I tell you, I nearly ALWAYS taste my partners' fish and I ALWAYS live in fear that I will be scolded or charged for that one nibble and it's very anxiety provoking. However, I would never finish my partners AYCE meal, partly because I'm full from whatever I ordered, but, also, because I don't want to be yelled at because I understand that in order for this AYCE arrangement to be fair to the restaurant, only one person should be getting all he or she can eat if only one person has paid the AYCE price. I have never actually been yelled at or scolded for my "nibble," but I still feel a little guilty about it.

                                                                      Often, but not always, when he or she is taking away the plates, the server will ask if you want to take the leftovers with you, which is nice, so you don't feel the food is wasted.

                                                                      I think the Sharuf's situation could have been handled more gracefully, including a clear explanation up front as in, "I know you're regulars, but have you tried any of our AYCE specials before? If not, please allow me to explain how this works..." Not everyone knows how this works and if the restaurant is worried about "abuse" then they should make sure everyone understands the rules.


                                                                      2 Replies
                                                                      1. re: The Dairy Queen

                                                                        This is the first and only time I have seen an AYCE offer at IHOP. It is a limited-time special in addition to their regular menu. The rules may be spelled out in the fine print -- I dunno, since I wasn't interested in that offer. Like I mentioned above somewhere, I didn't even realize my partner had ordered the AYCE.

                                                                        1. re: Sharuf

                                                                          IHOP has AYCE pretty frequently -- at least annually.

                                                                      2. So...what kind of tip did you leave? ;)

                                                                        I think the real problem here is the server's/kitchen's decision on what amount is desired on a AYCE re-fill. If your dining companion said "bring me three more pancakes" and then wasn't able to finish them is one thing, but if the kitchen automatically sends out three pancakes on a re-fill order and the diner is unable to eat three more pancakes it's quite another.
                                                                        You can't send the pancake back, and I think it's wasteful to leave food on the plate (especially since AYCE deals don't allow you to take left-overs with you.)
                                                                        And ultimately...it's one silly pancake, hardly worth making a fuss and upsetting two regular customers who not only might not leave an acceptable tip but might just find a friendlier place to spend their pancake dollars.
                                                                        Maybe IHOP should get out of the "all you can eat" business, if they can't ration food better and can't clearly post all the rules.

                                                                        1. It seems stupid to make such a fuss over a lousy pancake, but the Y in AYCE stands for "You," not "Your Entire Table."

                                                                          1. here is the problem. What if you had ordered something really light, and your friend gets the AYCE. When he has eaten his fill he orders another stack, takes one bite and then, in the interest of "not being wasteful" pushes it to you!? see the issue? You have to understand that they see those kinds of situations all day long( and dare I say it, maybe from the elderly more then others?). Yes, the rules are wasteful on a "food in the garbage" kind of way, but its less wasteful profit wise!

                                                                            1. i'm sorry, but... sharuf, what did you order?

                                                                              4 Replies
                                                                              1. re: alkapal

                                                                                I've been inserting responses here and there above in this thread, including to this question. To sum up, I ordered one of my favorites, and had no designs on my partners stack of pancakes.

                                                                                1. re: Sharuf

                                                                                  who said you did have designs? your o.p. was that you felt slighted, and were you wrong to feel slighted.

                                                                                  1. re: alkapal

                                                                                    The possibility has been alluded to in this thread that a person would order something skimpy with the idea of augmenting it from an AYCE diner's plenitude.

                                                                                    1. re: Sharuf

                                                                                      we certainly wouldn't think that about you, sharuf!

                                                                                      your motive was to avoid wasting food. i believe you. many, many others are not like you, however, and they DO game the system, making it a matter for management's vigilance as a general rule.

                                                                                      a fair (not exact) analogy is this: when i'm in a store like nordstrom, looking but not buying, the salesgirls do keep a keen eye out -- trying not to look like they are. i'm not a shoplifter, but they don't know me, they just see a customer nosing around. i could be offended, but when i think about it, they're just doing their job -- even though i'm doing nothing wrong.

                                                                              2. ""We were not trying the game the system, which seemed to be what she implied.""

                                                                                You seem to be in denial for something you obviously did as being wrong. In my area it is an arrestable offense (they call- conversion) and our local paper just loves to publish those wrongdoers.

                                                                                13 Replies
                                                                                1. re: RShea78

                                                                                  Conversion?!? Come ON. It was a moment of thoughtlessness. Let's not bring 1L crim law into it.

                                                                                  1. re: charmedgirl

                                                                                    ""It was a moment of thoughtlessness.""

                                                                                    No! It is a crime that is less severe than a theft or a shoplifting charge.


                                                                                    1. re: RShea78

                                                                                      The OP's behavior was a moment of thoughtlessness. Please do not link me to a wikipedia source as an authority on the law of conversion. That's ridiculous.

                                                                                      1. re: charmedgirl

                                                                                        An especially unenlightening response to you seeing as how the link takes one to a page that gives NO information about the term of conversion what-so-ever.

                                                                                        1. re: Servorg

                                                                                          to have a little fun, here is the conversion (law) link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversi...
                                                                                          <edit: the link does not work -- even though it mirrors the proper link in the browser address window, so instead google wiki conversion (law)>

                                                                                          query though: exactly WHO held PROPERTY RIGHTS in that third pancake? ;-). i'd argue that it is buddy, alone. unless buddy fails to pay for his ayce deal. then that's a whole 'nother thread (errr, story). {;^D. but that is looking at conversion alone. then there is the contract law applying to buddy and ihop.....

                                                                                          i had an old law professor who would probably put this on an exam!! "pulled right from the headlines," she'd say. LOL!!!

                                                                                          1. re: alkapal

                                                                                            Here is what I see when I go to this link (I see the same thing when I go to the link provided by RShea78):

                                                                                            Conversion (law
                                                                                            From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                                                                                            Jump to: navigation, search
                                                                                            Look for Conversion (law on one of Wikipedia's sister projects:
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                                                                                            Wikinews (free news source)

                                                                                            Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name. Please search for Conversion (law in Wikipedia to check for alternative titles or spellings.

                                                                                            * Start the Conversion (law article or add a request for it.
                                                                                            * Search for "Conversion (law" in existing articles.
                                                                                            * Look for pages within Wikipedia that link to this title.

                                                                                            Other reasons this message may be displayed:

                                                                                            * If a page was recently created here, it may not yet be visible because of a delay in updating the database; wait a few minutes and try the purge function.
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                                                                                            1. re: Servorg

                                                                                              Problem occurred in the link in how the chow software dropped the closing ")" of the link. Add it and the link works.

                                                                                            2. re: alkapal

                                                                                              ""query though: exactly WHO held PROPERTY RIGHTS in that third pancake? ;-). i'd argue that it is buddy, alone. unless buddy fails to pay for his ayce deal. then that's a whole 'nother thread (errr, story). {;^D. but that is looking at conversion alone. then there is the contract law applying to buddy and ihop.....""

                                                                                              How about eating something like grapes (not paid for) at the grocery store? The lay/street term is called "grazing". I recall a suspect that took a huge offense as he isn't a cow, but he still got cuffed and stuffed by our men in blue.

                                                                                              1. re: RShea78

                                                                                                rshea, you're not playing the conversion mind-game. you're changing the subject.

                                                                                                also, have you read my many posts on this thread? in fact, i was the first to post -- and several times thereafter. i've said sharuf was wrong to be offended, that the restaurant must keep customers to the rules of AYCE.

                                                                                                this "conversion" "follow-up" legal query was just for fun!

                                                                                                1. re: alkapal

                                                                                                  No! The charge of criminal conversion is the same. Grazing off of someone's AYCE plate is no different than out of a store's cooler.

                                                                                                  1. re: RShea78

                                                                                                    but buddy had the rights to that pancake; it was his "property" that was converted. ihop's issue is with buddy, breaking his "contract" to not share his pancakes.

                                                                                                    a store selling grapes has the property rights in those grapes. the store's action is against an eater of an unpurchased grape -- not a customer who bought, and then shared a grape with someone who didn't buy -- no conversion there.

                                                                                                    1. re: alkapal

                                                                                                      >>""but buddy had the rights to that pancake; it was his "property" that was converted. ihop's issue is with buddy, breaking his "contract" to not share his pancakes.""

                                                                                                      No! Buddy is permitted in his own consumption of his food or to leave it. IHOP still retains its rights to any leftovers of the AYCE meal, not the OP.

                                                                                                      1. re: RShea78

                                                                                                        that is under contract law.

                                                                                                        now everyone can see how lawyers can argue both sides of an issue. ;-).

                                                                                                        and is probably why they don't like lawyers (until they need one.) {;^D.

                                                                                  2. I can almost see some type of "profiling" in the situation you described.
                                                                                    You and your friend are regulars and you sound like you might be retirees? Maybe other people "like" yourselves (fit a profile) have tried to "scam" their AYCE pancake offer. Example: One orders the AYCE and the other orders maybe just coffee (you didn't say if you ordered pancakes or anything-did you order pancakes?) and the waitress thinks you're sharing all the pancakes with your friend and not just the one he couldn't eat which she caught you eating? The waitress was probably in her right to say something, but not scold you if that was her tone. I'm sure there are people who try and scam their AYCE offer all the time. After she scolded you did you explain to her that you were just finishing the pancake your friend couldn't eat? If she was upset about that I would have asked if she preferred he asked for a to go package to take it home. I understand the policy is to bring three pancakes when they ask for seconds.

                                                                                    Reminded me of a retiree I know that complained that a McDonalds he never frequented was upset they didn't have "senior" coffee which is 25 cents. He ordered a breakfast and senior coffee and realized after his food was delivered they didn't give him the senior coffee price. So he gave back the whole order and asked for his money back. He asked the manager why there was no senior coffee price and the manager said he used to have it, but that seniors would get a 25 cent coffee and fill his restaurant all morning drinking coffee.

                                                                                    4 Replies
                                                                                    1. re: monku


                                                                                      Except for age, we don't fit the old tightwad profile. We order anything we want, and tip well. The manager treats us like old friends, we exchange jokes with him, etc. BTW he was not there on the day in question, and I'm sure he would have disapproved of the way the waitress handled things.

                                                                                      1. re: Sharuf

                                                                                        Age is part of the profile and "tightwad" unfortunately might be also go hand in hand in the waitresses eyes. She obviously didn''t know you and your buddy are regulars and good tippers.
                                                                                        The waitress propably hates the AYCE promo having to go back and forth extra times delivering pancakes and before you she had a confrontation with people who were scamming the promo. You should definitely bring it up with the manager the next time you're there.....I'm sure he'll throw in some guilt free pancakes for you and your buddy.

                                                                                        Curious, you've never said what you ordered? Did you order something that came with pancakes?

                                                                                        1. re: monku

                                                                                          she did tell us what she ordered (upthread): "I had their garden-stuffed crepes, with extra hollandaise sauce, please."

                                                                                          no pancakes with crepes, i presume.

                                                                                          1. re: alkapal

                                                                                            Sorry, I didn't see that. But, as I suspected she didn't order pancakes which adds to the appearance of trying to scam the promo.

                                                                                    2. I completely understand their rule, but, I think it'd have been more of an issue if your friend gave you that pancake and then ordered another round. Instead your friend was given three pancakes, only ate two, and didn't order more. If I were the waitress I don't think I'd have said anything in those circumstances.

                                                                                      1 Reply
                                                                                      1. re: Rick

                                                                                        ""If I were the waitress I don't think I'd have said anything in those circumstances.""

                                                                                        At my last restaurant position (~5years ago), the waitress/waiter staff was informed to bring this kind of thing to the attention of management. It was management's responsibility to either- warn and charge the customer an AYCE meal <or> call the authorities for a jail ride.

                                                                                        Last time I patronized my old place of employment, AYCE meals were only offered to the entire party/table.

                                                                                      2. I'd rather see a scolding than go to a restaurant that has an all-or-none policy for AYCE requiring everyone at the table to order it if someone else does. This isn't the policy in most American restaurants, but in some other countries it's very common in order to prevent abuse. The server did not charge you for sharing and I feel like any way she could have approached it would have been seen as a scolding.

                                                                                        1. Sharuf, at the risk of being redundant, I don't think anyone here believes you were committing a heinous crime, or even intentionally did something wrong. You made a mistake, someone called you out on it. They could have been nicer about it, they also could have made it into a much bigger deal. They didn't accuse you of theft or call the mall police. They didn't bring the manager over and threaten to ban you from returning. They didn't even charge you for a side order of pancakes. And yes, I have seen all that happen to people who share AYCE foods.

                                                                                          Moreover you sound like someone who believes the rules don't apply to you. "we share food all the time, why would i think that day was any different"," we are good friends with the manager, he would have let us break the rules." Honestly, I can't decide if you sound more like my grandmother (I'm an old woman, they should let me do what I want), or my niece (but I knew the DJ, he told me it was OK to have a drink).

                                                                                          If you are expecting us to exhonorate you, it doesn't look like that is going to happen. You just weren't paying attention, but as the old saying goes... "ignorance is no excuse for the law." Get over it.

                                                                                          1. i think if the friend was not going to order anything else anyway - who cares.

                                                                                            3 Replies
                                                                                            1. re: thew

                                                                                              I tend to agree with you. The restaurant should assume that anyone ordering the AYCE pancakes is going to have a second round. Otherwise, they would have just ordered the regular pancakes at the regular price. And if IHOP brings out "refill" pancakes in increments of three, no matter what, it's really a moot point, because they knew they were going to be out at least 6 pancakes from the moment Buddy ordered. :)


                                                                                              1. re: The Dairy Queen

                                                                                                yes, but it assumes that Sharuf would not have ordered. If she knows she is going to get one or two pancakes from Buddy (which she often has in the past) then she might adjust her order accordingly. So they are not out the 6 pancakes buddy ate, that is a foregone conclusion. It is the additional order that they may have received from Sharuf.

                                                                                                Let me repeat, I do not think Sharuf had any "malice of forethought", but that doesn't make it OK.

                                                                                                1. re: KaimukiMan

                                                                                                  Actually, in this situation, I think it is okay. I think innocent, unintentional mistakes are okay, if no one is harmed. This is the kind of thing that should be readily forgiven.

                                                                                                  Sharuf has said she was not aware of the AYCE special or that Buddy had ordered such a thing. She has said that she ordered her regular meal. It's not as if she just ordered a coffee; she ordered a meal. So, the restaurant wasn't going to get additional business from her anyway (unless Sharuf is in the practice of ordering pancakes after she finishes her crepes).

                                                                                                  IHOP was out six pancakes, which, as you say, was a foregone conclusion. IHOP didn't suffer any economic harm, in my opinion.

                                                                                                  I suppose that one could fault her for not paying attention to her companion's order, but that would require a level of vigilence that just seems excessive to me. I don't always pay attention to what my companion orders (in fact, sometimes I don't even pay attention to what I order--sometimes I order and promptly forget, which means I get a joyous surprise when my order arrives. )

                                                                                                  Her intentions weren't evil. IHOP is out the six pancakes they served to Buddy. I can let it go and still sleep at night.


                                                                                            2. this is one of those things that you really have to just follow the rules, regardless of what your intentions are. There's this restaurant we always used to go to when arriving for a week vacation at the Jersey shore. The kids were little, so got "kids meals" at that time, and the adults had a deal with a soup and unlimited salad bar. I remember bringing back my salad with a couple cherry tomatoes and feeling *really* guilty about giving my daughter one of those tomatoes, since it "wasn't hers". But it made her meal more healthy, if you know what I mean.... but I knew it was "wrong" to give it to her. But I didn't get caught :)

                                                                                              1. While we're examining the incident of "the leftover pancake," the AYCE IHOP pancake promo is being schemed in unimagineable ways as we read. Anyone have any newer ideas?

                                                                                                Would have made a classic Seinfeld episode........Kramer telling Costanza to get the AYCE pancakes and he gets caught by the pancake cops.

                                                                                                MIL arms herself with baggies when we go to AYCE places and I make sure I'm using the restroom or back at the trough while she's doing her thing....don't want to be embarassed or slighted by the AYCE police.

                                                                                                9 Replies
                                                                                                1. re: monku

                                                                                                  monku, perhaps the place needs to be yellow taped with some "Do Not Enter - Crime Scene" tape.

                                                                                                  Oh, BTW some of the AYCE places in my town has recently installed security cameras in order to catch those wrongdoers.

                                                                                                  1. re: RShea78

                                                                                                    I know its the principle, but its only.........A Pancake !!! That's what makes this so entertaining.

                                                                                                    Security cameras......what's next ?
                                                                                                    I've read stories where they try and ban obviously overweight people from certain AYCE places. I didn't check the boards but are there any of those people who have been banned and felt "slighted"......I'd like to get into a conversation there.

                                                                                                    Whats the name of your town.......I'll make sure I don't bring my MIL there. Who knows, maybe she's in something like a AYCE black book like they have in Las Vegas for card counters.

                                                                                                    1. re: monku

                                                                                                      I tried to order the AYCE pancakes @ IHOP but my very young looking companion forgot her ID and when they carded us that was the end of my endless pancakes dream. Damn those PA IHOP's! ;-D

                                                                                                      1. re: Servorg

                                                                                                        You mean her AARP card ???

                                                                                                      2. re: monku

                                                                                                        are they banning fat people because they eat too much or to guard their health? thats funny and pathetic all at once!

                                                                                                        AYCE story: at a very good "utility sushi"(a sushi-ya that isnt stellar but makes fine, tasty, and properly prepared sushi at reasonably prices) joint in Vegas, I walked in with a couple buddies and they had an AYCE deal for $35. I realized that this was a great deal knowing how much I can eat(btw, im 6'2" and 165, so im not your typical buffet client, but I can eat!). After about the 20th order of nigiri and handrolls, the Chef came over and "cut me off". Said "no more fish! I will by you a sake and beer but I cant give you anymore food!" I took it as a point of pride not as a slight!! after I was done I was tallying up what I had ate and calculated it at the ala carte prices.........just south of $200. I almost felt bad, almost. :-)

                                                                                                        1. re: nkeane

                                                                                                          You're like the fat people I was referring to. Owners of AYCE places fear people like you who can wreck their bottom line. Dangerous you're an unassuming looking AYCE pig. Interesting in Vegas they got all those buffets and types of people that they would single you out. But probably happens a lot....people can pack away a lot of sushi. I know when I eat at buffets like the Bellagio or Wynn I concentrate on the seafood....you can put away a lot more seafood than meat and poultry before getting stuffed.

                                                                                                          "NO MORE FISH" for you.......any relation to the Soup Nazi?

                                                                                                          1. re: nkeane

                                                                                                            Your next mission is to be banned from the AYCE IHOP promotion by eating too many pancakes. Let me know what their limit is. That would be something to take pride in.

                                                                                                            My only eating accomplishment is 10 Nathan hot dogs when I was in high school beating out my buddies. They were only 50 cents each then.

                                                                                                          2. re: monku

                                                                                                            I used to work with a couple of guys in their '30s--former Marines. For some of our department lunches we would often go to a local Chinese AYCE buffet. After a few visits, the restaurant banned them. Apparently AYCE can be applied selectively.

                                                                                                            1. re: monku

                                                                                                              If they felt slighted, they didn't show it--they were laughing about it.

                                                                                                      3. This thread seems to have gone well beyond the realm of AYCE rule enforcement to a general discussion of disciplining other people's childrens. We're going to lock it now.