587274 Mon Jan 12 13:17:16 -0800 2009 15 31 Home Cooking 0 4319464 I buy frozen raw bagels from my grocery store's bakery and then thaw and bake at home for fresh bagels. Recently I was thinking about making my own. Looking at various recipes, I noticed some boil the bagels before baking. Does anyone have experience with boiling or not boiling? I figured I would try it with this next batch of frozen ones. I'll thaw first and do a short rise then boil for a few minutes, then bake. Also, just out of curiosity, what temp oven do you usually use and for how long? I usually go about 450 until nice and brown between 6-10 min and use my stone. Mon Jan 12 13:17:16 -0800 2009 158403 jcattles 1 4319479 Boiling is necessary to create the crust that defines a bagel as opposed to a bread doughnut. Actually, look for recipes that involve using an alkali (baking soda is usual in home baking, rather than the more dangerous lye that traditionalists continue to use to get the best results), as those will be designed to get a richer color and better texture to the crust. Also, malt produces a more genuine crumb (tighter, less airy) than sugar, and a characteristic traditional flavor. It's a signature of a traditionally made bagel. Two links for update: http://smittenkitchen.com/2007/09/bronx-worthy-bagels/ http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/33 Mon Jan 12 13:20:26 -0800 2009 4319464 13819 Karl S 1 4319587 I made them recently using Nigella Lawson't recipe in "How to be a Domestic Goddess." They came out very well. She says to boil them with malt syrup or with sugar if you can't find malt. I think they were baked at 500. Maybe 450. Mon Jan 12 13:47:47 -0800 2009 4319464 126235 NYCkaren 2 4320448 Sounds like a waste of malt syrup. I've seen recipes that call for adding malt to the dough (as per Karl S above), but never the boiling water. I second Pigtails' recommendation of the Cooks Illustrated recipe. It calls for malt syrup in the dough and nothing in the water. I don't find that baking soda adds much, but a little lye certainly does make for a lovely red, extra crunchy crust. However, it is a very hazardous material and I wouldn't recommend using it first time out, or at all if you have kids or pets that could tip the pot. Mon Jan 12 18:23:32 -0800 2009 4319587 53530 Zeldog 1 4319700 I agree with the others here. I would choose malt syrup. You could use a dark corn syrup if the malt is hard to come by. You don't want to let them rise too much - if at all - before you boil them. You want them to be thawed, but refrigerated. The boiling water will activate things nicely. Boil them until they float is a good rule. Be careful not to let them sit on the bottom of the pot (and thus stick). Baked at a high temp is good, but it sounds like you've already got the baking part figured out. Mon Jan 12 14:14:14 -0800 2009 4319464 42270 HaagenDazs 1 4320033 Make sure you give those puppies a nice eggwhite wash after 5 minutes of baking time for a super shiny bagel.(It also helps provide "cling" for sesame seeds, poppy seeds, salt, etc. ) Adam Mon Jan 12 15:59:50 -0800 2009 4319464 154787 adamshoe 2 4320399 Blasphemy. Real bagels don't have an egg wash on them. The dough is wet from the boiling which helps the topping stick. Mon Jan 12 18:08:21 -0800 2009 4320033 12821 ESNY 3 4321374 Exactly - the shine and stick is created from the sugar in the boiling water. Tue Jan 13 06:25:04 -0800 2009 4320399 42270 HaagenDazs 1 4320139 bagels are not hard to make at home. the key is a good stiff dough. cook's illustrated has some good instructions regarding the dough. also, if you make any cinnamon raisin ones , remember than cinnamon slows / retards yeast (an error i made once). it's fun to make seed bagels, you can make any mix of seeds you like (i add a few fennel seeds). you just roll the bagels in the seeds after boiling and before baking. once i made some amazing garlic bagels with roasted garlic in the dough. YUM. i just use plain water, personally, although malt would be an authentic touch i do not believe it is neccesary. you need to flip them over in the boiling water. they don't take long to boil or bake. oven at about 450. Mon Jan 12 16:31:28 -0800 2009 4319464 14499 pigtails 1 4320504 The malt in the dough (not too much...just enough for those yeasties) and the boiliong are MUSTS for god bagels. Period. If it ain't boiled, it ain't even really a bagel. Mon Jan 12 18:42:13 -0800 2009 4319464 116047 The Professor 1 4323992 Ok I'm not sure what I did. I thawed the frozen bagels in the fridge and took them out about 1/2 hour before I boiled them. They got kinda puffy in the water and looked good. Put them in the oven, and they fell. They ended up completely flat and browned way to fast. The oven was at 450 degrees, like I normally do. Guess I'll just stick with a nice long rise and baking without boiling. At least until I attempt to make my own from scratch. Tue Jan 13 18:53:18 -0800 2009 4319464 158403 jcattles 2 4324173 i wonder if your bagels could possibly be coming from the store pre-boiled somehow? Tue Jan 13 20:27:11 -0800 2009 4323992 14499 pigtails 2 4324730 Like I mentioned above, I don't think you should let them warm out of the fridge first. The boiling water is plenty of heat... but don't listen to me... ;-) Wed Jan 14 05:47:11 -0800 2009 4323992 42270 HaagenDazs 2 4360861 I never heard of freezing uncooked dough. You killed the yeast, for sure, and who knows what else got messed up. If you want frozen bagels, bake them first. They keep pretty well that way. Mon Jan 26 21:41:24 -0800 2009 4323992 53530 Zeldog 3 4362069 Freezing doesn't kill the yeast. I have preserved brewing yeast in the past by freezing with no problems, and I still routinely freeze both un-risen bread and pizza dough to have it on hand in a pinch. It thaws, it rises, and it bakes up perfectly. Tue Jan 27 09:59:14 -0800 2009 4360861 116047 The Professor 1 4324079 I form them, spin them (like a 45 record with my finger in the hole) on a plate with semolina, and then they go on a Silpat (Exopat) for a brief rise and then into briskly boiling water. I cook the boiled dough at 375 for about 25 minutes. This is for smallish bagels about 4-5" across. Tue Jan 13 19:37:29 -0800 2009 4319464 79896 shallots