Grand Sichuan -- 7th Avenue (long)

[lipoff]

Hosted a large dinner (seventeen people or so) at the 7th Avenue Grand Sichuan the other night.

I wanted to host this dinner at a good Chinese restaurant in Manhattan (a precious few), which could accommodate a large party on short notice, and provide enough room so as not to feel crowded and be quiet enough to be able to talk. I walked in the night before and asked for the entire back of the restaurant to be reserved for us --- this was the entire bench at the back of the restaurant, which can be made into one very, very long table. About twenty people can be accommodated at most. I judged this was better than two large round tables, as I might have been able to get at another restaurant, such as Wu Liang Ye.

All in all, this worked out well. The restaurant was actually quite crowded at 8 PM on a Tuesday evening, and it was a little noisier than I would have hoped. The brick walls, large windows and modern furniture are pretty, although they don't keep the noise down very well. A restaurant with a large private room would have been ideal, but this ended up being a very good compromise.

On to the food:

cui4 kou3 huang2 gua (Cold Cucumber with Scallion Sauce) was perhaps the highlight of the evening. Expertly sliced cold cucumber mixed with a slivered scallions in a light white vinegar. It was crisp and refreshing and a most unusual spin on this dish.

fu1 qi1 fei4 pian4 (OX Tongue & Tripe with Spicy Peppery Sauce) was decent, although nothing special. The sauce was fairly la4 but not at all ma2. The beef itself was more brisket than tripe, and tasted more like five spice beef covered in la4 you2 (chili oil) than a proper fu1 qi1 fei4 pian. The hot oil itself was quite good, and I sopped some up eagerly with the next dish . . .

cong1 you2 bing3 (Scallion Pancake) are of the interesting variety that I've only seen at Grand Sichuans. Very thin, browned on the outside, with a filling inside that's colored green throughout with a subtle hint of scallions, but no texture of them. This is not my favourite variety of this dish, but a change is always good, and these were thoroughly enjoyed.

Si4 chuan1 liang2 mian4 (Sichuan Cold Noodles) should have came last in the meal, but came directly following the appetizers. These were extremely good --- while the noodles themselves were nothing special, they were cooked to the right consistency and the mixture of hot oil, scallions, vinegar, crushed peanuts, and sesame oil that enveloped them was properly balanced.

fei4 teng2 yu2 (Sliced Fish Sauce Soup) was spicy and flavorful with a variety of vegetables, including fresh bean sprouts and scallions floating in the red broth, along with sliced white fish and chunks of silken tofu. Unfortunately, in the very large bowl of soup, there was precious little fish.

Chong2 qing4 la4 zi ji1 (Chong Qing Spicy Chicken) was the most disappointing dish. The "popcorns" of chicken were overly greasy and fried, inexplicably sweet instead of spicy, there were not nearly enough la4 jiao1 (hot peppers) and no discernable taste of hua1 jiao1 (Sichuan peppers), so this dish was neither ma2 (numbing) nor la4 (spicy). I believe I had the Gui Zhou chicken here on another occasion several months ago that I found to be much more interesting.

hui2 guo1 niu2 (Double Cooked Beef) was, along with the cucumber, the highlight of the evening. A terrific variant of the traditional twice-cooked pork, this dish doesn't merely substitute beef for pork in the traditional recipe but re-balances the tastes, while using the method of twice cooking. The result are unusually succulent slices of beef, layered amongst sliced scallions. I couldn't get enough of this dish.

ma2 po2 dou4 fu (Ma Po To Fu) was the only legitimately spicy dish of the evening. It didn't radiate complex layers of flavor like the best mapo tofu can, but it packed a strong punch and had a very pleasing texture.

suan4 chao3 dou4 miao2 (Sautéed Pea Shoots w. Fresh Garlic) was a fine dish, nothing remarkable, but good sautéed vegetables in a sauce that wasn't too heavy. To be clear, this was the dark green leafy part of the dou4 miao2, not the delicate stems.

jiang1 cong1 shao1 nan2 gua1 (Braised Pumpkin with Ginger and Scallion) was a most interesting and unusual dish, being carefully cut little cubes of pumpkin, softened, and mixed with a light touch of ginger and a lighter touch of scallion. The knife work was terrific, and the balance of flavors between the pumpkin and ginger was handled just right. My complaint is about the texture of this dish -- some cubes of pumpkin were unpleasantly hard, while others seemed cooked unevenly. Several other people at the table found this to be the highlight of the evening.

pao1 jiang1 bao4 ya1 si1 (Shredded Duck with Fresh Ginger) were terrific, flavorful shreds of quite fatty duck mixed with a variety of vegetables. Ginger was discernable, but not dominant, and excellent knife work on both the duck and vegetables produced a smooth texture. It also looked beautiful on the plate, even with out the turnip-flower decoration (itself also beautiful, although someone cheated with two hidden toothpicks and a judiciously placed rubber band!)

The menu has some standard Sichuan choices, and also some decidedly non-standard and creative choices. Not everything was perfect, but there's clearly someone of great skill behind the knife work in the kitchen, and behind balancing many complex flavors. Despite ordering several dishes that should have been very spicy, nothing was particularly hot and the characteristic numbing of Sichuan peppercorns was utterly missing.

As for service, everyone was unfailingly nice, but also quite confused. It is admittedly difficult to attend to a party of seventeen, especially when the rest of the restaurant is quite full. So I can understand if sometimes our water glasses weren't refilled (sometimes they weren't), if the teapots weren't often refilled with hot water (they weren't), or if we had to ask for small bowls for the fei4 teng2 yu2 (we did --- twice) and if even still only half the table received them (indeed only half did, but there wasn't enough fish in the two large bowls for more than half the table anyway). But several dishes that we ordered never appeared, others only appeared once, despite us ordering two of everything, and even though it was obvious that one copy of each dish should be delivered to each side of the table, sometimes two copies ended up on one side.

I did want to comment on something else entirely as well. Several of the servers were not Chinese. I'm surprised, because I have almost never seen that in any authentic Chinese restaurant in the United States. That can be just fine, but I wonder if those servers' lack of familiarity with Chinese cuisine led to dropped dishes, confusion over things like not bringing out vinegar with the scallion pancakes, bringing the noodles and rice out first, not bringing out bowls with the soup and so on.

All in all, we had a wonderful evening, and more food than we could eat for still less than $25/pp.

With Grand Sichuan the key seems to be judicious ordering, something that Chowhound can help with quite a bit. Some dishes were truly excellent and others uninspired. With a smaller party one's experience can vary dramatically on which dishes were ordered. I especially recommend the cucumber, cold noodles, double cooked beef, and shredded duck. Scallion pancakes, pea shoots and the pumpkin were fine choices as well.

[JungMann]

I've noticed a change at Grand Sichuan 7th Ave since attending their pre-opening tasting dinner. My initial meal was dynamic, filled with heat and ma la flavor; but nearly every other diner felt that while we as chefs and Sichuanese-aficionados might like food this flavorful and spicy, most Villagers probably would not. Since that initial meal, I think that analysis has likely been born out by locals giving the chef the same feedback because as the food has grown less ma la in these intervening months, the crowds inside have grown thicker. When I order I know to emphasize I want my food ma la and while I still think dishes like the fuqi feipian and Chongqing la zi ji always need more ma flavor, the heat is usually potent enough.

[Lau]

great review, ive still been meaning to try out the 7th ave branch although seems to be somewhat hit or miss

thats really weird about the waiters...what ethnicity were they btw? thats really surprising

[lipoff]

That sounds very reasonable --- I believe I had the Guizhou Chicken when I went there shortly after it opened, and I certainly recall the meal I had then to be much hotter.

Again, the dishes I enjoyed most this time weren't even intended to be hot, and they were terrific.

I also miss the 50th St. Midtown West branch --- I had one very memorable banquet there several years ago.

As for the two non-Chinese waiters, they looked like young, hip, white denizens of the Village or Brooklyn. :) I have no problem with this, as long as the waiters know the food and can communicate with the kitchen, but I was very surprised. I've seen this in Europe commonly, or in places in NYC like Wakiya or Shang or Wing Lei in Las Vegas, but never in a place like a Sichuan Garden.

[Simon]

thanks for the detailed review...i haven't tried that branch yet, but have been to the others dozens of times...

re; chicken, i usually get the Gui Zhou chicken, but that dish too is at least slightly sweet unless you specify otherwise...i always request it extra spicy and "no sugar" and it usually comes out fine...

[kathryn]

IMO the 50th Street West Midtown branch (RIP) had the best Chong Qing Spicy Chicken. Mountain of peppers, so much ma la... It hasn't been the same since.

[Lau]

a serious RIP to that place b/c it was the best sichuan in the city (even better than SG)

[Pan]

It was great, and they did non-spicy dishes better than SG, but I think SG is better, overall. Of course, that's essentially a moot point.

[Bob Martinez]

The 7th Ave. location has been open for about a year but I only got around to visiting last Saturday night. I wish I hadn’t waited so long.

The GSI mini chain has a well deserved reputation for serving good to very good Szechuan food. Unfortunately the ambiance of the restaurants leaves something to be desired. They’ve fixed that flaw at the 7th Ave location.

It’s standard practice for each GSI location to offer somewhat different menus and the menu at the 7th Ave. location is considerably shorter than the one at their 24th St. branch. That said, there’s plenty of appealing choices here. Since this was our first visit we followed our usual practice of ordering classic dishes so we could make a direct comparison to the versions served at other restaurants.

Dan Dan noodles – nicely prepared with plenty of heat. The portion was a bit larger than standard, something that was a continuing and pleasant theme for the evening.

Five spiced beef – My GF’s choice and a good one. Complexly flavored and pleasantly hot. Again, a really generous portion.

Cumin beef – this is a big favorite of ours from Grand Sichuan House in Bay Ridge. This version compared very well. This dish isn’t overwhelmingly hot but the cumin flavor adds plenty of zip. A friend of mine once described this dish as “like eating beef French fries.” He’s right.

Double cooked pork – Slices of pork belly. While this dish wasn’t a revelation, it was very good indeed. They offer it in two versions – lean or fatty. Guess which one I had? Yes, you’re right. While their version doesn’t quite reach the stratospheric levels of the Enhanced Pork at Spicy and Tasty or the stir fried pork belly with chili leeks at Szechuan Gourmet it’s still an excellent dish.

Green beans with ground pork – this was as good as any version I’ve ever had. Not better, but then I’m comparing it to some very good places.

At GSI 7th Ave. they do something that I wish more Szechuan restaurants would do – you have the option of ordering most items in a small and large size. There’s a price difference of around $3.50 between the portions and we chose to super size everything. That was probably a mistake since there was way too much food. Then again we chose to take home the extras so I guess it worked out fine in the end.

We spit an attractively priced bottle of prosecco to help cool the fires. It worked very nicely.

As you can see by the photo the ambiance is way above average for a Chinese restaurant. Compared to the other branches of GSI, this is like the Palace of Versailles. Anyone who regularly subjects themselves to the dingy bus terminal atmosphere of the 24th St. branch of GSI needs to get themselves over here immediately.

How does the 7th Ave. GSI compare to the other top rank Szechuan restaurants in the city like Szechuan Gourmet. Spicy and Tasty, and Grand Sichuan House? I think it’s a fool’s game to pick any one of them as “the best” but this place deserves to be mentioned in the same sentence as the leaders.

Menu - http://www.thegrandsichuan.com/?p=107

Website - http://www.thegrandsichuan.com/?page_...

[Bob Martinez]

The review I wrote above prompted a few friends to visit GSI 7th last night. I tagged along. We had -

Dan Dan noodles - as before, very good

Cold cumber w. scallion sauce - every place does this a little differently. The best I had is at GSI 2nd Ave. but this was very good.

Mung Bean noodles - one of our party loved this, the others thought it OK. I think this has to do with the squishy nature of these noodles. There's no way that this dish has been prepared at any restaurant that truly pleased me.

Cumin beef - as before, excellent

Double cooked pork - also excellent

Chong Quing Chicken - served diced with a heaping pile of red peppers, the flavor was fine. It was exactly the same as they do it at the excellent Grand Sichuan House in Bay Ridge. The problem is I've decided that this dish is just too much of a PITA to eat. You've got to excavate through the pile of peppers to get to the small chicken pieces. They're quite tasty but it's too much effort.

Tea Smoked Duck - Everyone at the table loved this except me. The flavor was fine but It reminded me that I find most duck preparations too greasy. That's why I love the duck with green beans at GSH in Bay Ridge. The grease level there is comparable to shredded pork.

Green beans with ground pork - as before, very good.

One of my dining companions mentioned that she could detect sweetness in some of the dishes. After discussion, this seemed to come down to the chicken, green beans, and the cucumbers. The rest of the dishes had no detectable sweetness.

This bothered her slightly but the rest of the group had no problem with it. It appears that some people have more sensitivity to this than others.

The other thing, and I did some research on this today, is that sugar is regularly used in the preparation of some authentic Szechuan dishes. Here's Fuschia Dunlop's recipe for kung pao chicken - http://www.leitesculinaria.com/recipes/cookbook/kung_pao.html

The recipe calls for 3 tsp. of sugar in the sauce. Here's another recipe for red braised pork - http://www.culinate.com/books/collect...

... which also calls for sugar.

From that I draw the conclusion that sugar is, in fact, a staple in Szechuan cooking and not something GSI 7th has added on their own. There seems to be some disagreement about the *proportions* but the legitimacy of sugar as an ingredient seems beyond doubt.

Anyway, we all agreed that the meal was quite good and that we'd happily return

Be aware that while this place is uncrowded on Saturday night on a Wednesday night it was jumping. I suspect they do a big after work dinner business.

[Simon]

while some Sichuan recipes (especially ones written in English) will call for sugar, the proportions are really what any kind of cooking is all about...

sugar is going to be an ingredient in a lot of recipes, but calling it a staple of Sichuan cooking based a couple of English recipes and a visit to a NY restaurant is going way too far...for example, i spent ten days in Chengdu, capital of Sichuan, last spring, and i can only recall one dish that was remotely sweet...

[Bob Martinez]

You've heard of Fuscia Dunlop, right? She's extremely well respected as an authority on Szechuan cooking. I picked her recipes because of that because I knew I'd be challenged.

I'm not saying you're wrong in your aversion to sugar. I just think individual sensitivity to sweetness, like saltiness, varies.

Individual tastes can vary about a lot of things. I've had an awful meal at the St. Marks GSI location, a place you like.

The dumplings were okay, but the dipping sauce was worthless. Dan dan noodles were okay. Double cooked pork was a mediocre but passable rendition, but the spicy beef was a mess of deep fried, flavorless stuff. No heat, really no taste. No reason to eat it.

it was as if the people who prepared the dishes had only seen pictures of food that other restaurants had turned out and had no idea what the finished product should taste like. It wasn't just OK, it was insulting.

The service was sluggish at best and they served me warm beer and were unapologetic when I called them on it. Maybe my experience was atypical but it was so unpleasant that I see no reason to go back. There are other good choices for this type of food.

[Lau]

i actually agree with both of you on the sweet / sugar issue
- Simon is right in that if you go to sichuan (ive spent a bunch of time there), you'll find that the dishes (generally) aren't very sweet
- Bob Martinez is right in that just b/c its not super sweet doesn't mean it doesn't have sugar in it...also one's sensitvity to sugar can alter how much "sweet" you regard the dish in being; for example i hate when people overly salt dishes unless its supposed to be (i generally find that its a way to try to mask the poor flavor of the dish itself)

[Simon]

i like GS St.Marks, but i think it's inferior to GS Chelsea...

when i go to GS St.Marks (and when i used to order delivery from them when i lived nearby), i always specify: very spicy, not sweet...otherwise, the food there is too sweet for me too...

[acidity]

I'm with you Simon, from another angle: I cook stir fries with some agility, and I often add sugar to the sauces, but I don't make things taste sweet. Whether sugar is used in Sichuan or not, I tasted sweeter sauces at 7th Ave Grand Sichuan ordering the same things I do at other branches.

And that Chong Qing chicken a PITA? I was sad that all they had was the boneless 'merican version! I like stripping the meat and knuckles from the bone-in variant much better, more moist and flavorful! Oh, bring back 50th and 9th!

While we disagree about the 7th Ave branch, Bob, I am with you on the software discussion over on Sitetalk. The thinking of the powers-that-be is (speaking of bone-in!) ossified for sure...

[acidity]

I recently visited this 7th Ave location for the first time: We overall did not enjoy the food. We ordered the things we've liked at other locations (shredded potatoes, cucumber, wontons in red oil, chong qing chicken, ma po tofu, chicken and sour cabbage, etc.) The food is "pleasant" tasting, and better than most chinese restaurants, but there are other Grand Sichuans and SG and WLY so I don't need to come here.

Conclusion: this location stinks, I probably will return only very infrequently. In addition to not being spicy, many of the dishes are sweetened, and with a sort of fruit flavor (tamarind?).

I do appreciate the choice of small portion dishes, that is very nice.

The nice decor, eh, too dark and very noisy. Staff is friendly here, but comprehension is strangely difficult, way below the competition.

The East Side branch is my favorite, and it used to be side by side my favorite with the 50th and 9th branch (they were always quite different). I really miss the crinkle cut french fries from that latter place.

I do look forward to trying the NJ branch from the descriptions I've read here.

[Simon]

i had pretty much the same reaction when i went there (and posted about it here)...

GS Chelsea is one of my restaurants in the whole city, but at 7th Ave i found the preparations of the same dishes to be far less tasty and more sweetened...the most disappointing item was the cucumber: which was very sweet (in contrast to the tangy scallion flavor at the other GS's)...

[whenslydale]

I was so excited when GS arrived around the corner.
After nearly a year or so and at least 15-20 tries Gran Szech Village still is inconsistent as hell,
the service bad,
delivery the worst in the hood and the staff
uneducated and just rude.

They had me,
they lost me.