584124 Wed Dec 31 11:54:10 -0800 2008 142 29 Not About Food 0 4286066 This has been bothering me and I'd really like to get other people's honest opinions... I had the inlaws over on Christmas Eve. I cooked a very elaborate meal with more than enough food for the 12 of us. I also made several very nice appetizers and desserts. My SIL called prior to see what she could bring. I told her I didn't need anything but when she persisted I told her she could bring a dessert. During this call she mentioned that my MIL was bringing a ham. (sigh) I know they don't like to come empty handed so I let it go. I cleaned, decorated, and cooked my butt off. I have a small dining room so I did a fairly informal buffet but took out my good silver and platters, etc.. so it would be more festive. They arrived 20 mins early, which I HATE. They came in with moving boxes filled with food. My SIL brought 5 desserts and chips/ dip. MIL brought a hugh ham and more side dishes than I made, plus appetizers that she passed around to other guests!! Much of the food needed to be heated up, which slowed me down. There was not enough room on my table. My elaborate dinner was lost in a sea of bland food in cheap tupperwares. Not a lot of my food was eaten since there was just waaaay too much. I had a few rum eggnogs, put on a smile and enjoyed the evening, but looking back I'm very angry and insulted. The clincher was when another guest brought wine and then took it back when she left. That could be because she was PO'd at me since I gave much of their unwanted food back to them when they left. She saw me packing up the pies/desserts and said, "Didn't you ask her bring that?" I told her, "1 Dessert, not 5" and that I had no room in the refrigerator as I was also hosting Christmas the next day for my family. Also, I refused to accept a few things such as grocery store sliced cheeses and pigs in a blanket. I realize that was probably wrong of me but it I already put out a very nice platter of cheese, sausages and fruits. I told her please keep them and enjoy them tomorrow at Christmas. Now I feel guilty even though I'm wondering what the hell they were thinking?? Also, this is not the first time they've done this to me. Can anyone please tell me what is appropriate? Sorry this is so long :) Wed Dec 31 11:54:10 -0800 2008 252484 Taurean 1 4286102 If you need a good laugh look up the previous post about a guest asking to bring unsolicited ribs to a bbq. I see nothing wrong with what you did. I would have just not unpacked their food, saying I'll heat it up if we need it. Gave back all the unwanted food citing no space for it or time to eat. And toss everything else they left behind. Of course most of the would be rude but life is too short to eat crappy food (especially during the holidays). But it was a holiday, they are family and if this is one of their quirks I guess the best thing to do would be grit your teeth and bear it. Think of it as an act of love on their part, and not an insult to your cooking/preparation. And then come on Chowhound and vent :) Wed Dec 31 12:07:02 -0800 2008 4286066 14495 viperlush 2 4294850 The bbq post is one of my all time favorite strings! Sun Jan 04 11:03:45 -0800 2009 4286102 222865 FoodChic 3 4295238 Here is the bbq rib thread for those that have not had the joy of reading it before. http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/411218 Sun Jan 04 13:32:21 -0800 2009 4294850 222865 FoodChic 4 4302761 That post will live forever in infamy! Thank goodness the resolution was a lot easier than I thought it would be. Have entertained quite a bit since then and NO problems like that have ever resurfaced. =) Tue Jan 06 20:16:49 -0800 2009 4295238 23298 SanJoseHound 5 4303260 Similar but different: at a birthday party a friend threw for me, we decided to get take out bbq - ribs, chicken, and ask everyone to bring a side (this bbq is known to be very (very) good!) - one friend brought their own ribs - crockpot - weird sauce - etc.... I thought it was so strange - almost like she made up her own "Throw Down" with the best bbq place in the area. I mostly resented having to eat a couple of her ribs (wasting valuable stomach space) and compliment her efforts!!! Then she wrapped up all the ribs and took every bit home with her - not that we minded much - but it wasn't in the spirit of contributing that I expected. Wed Jan 07 05:20:08 -0800 2009 4302761 57005 harryharry 5 4303632 If CH ever creates a CH Posting Hall of Fame, that one should definitely be included, SJH! LOL Wed Jan 07 07:55:33 -0800 2009 4302761 10532 LindaWhit 5 4306787 SJH Wow, jfood was glad to see your handle on this thread. He did not remember reading the resolution and just clicked over to your post. He did not see a posting from you on the "resolution." Now that the can of worms has been opened and dumped on the table, what did happen, if jfood might ask? Thu Jan 08 06:18:59 -0800 2009 4302761 11290 jfood 5 4306821 CLAMOR, CLAMOR! - the sound of the crowd behind jfood. Thu Jan 08 06:32:29 -0800 2009 4302761 36661 Sam Fujisaka 6 4306884 Inquiring minds want to know!!!! Thu Jan 08 06:53:01 -0800 2009 4306821 222865 FoodChic 7 4306913 SanJoseHound posted the resolution over a year ago here: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/444218 There's also a link to it from the last post in the original thread. Thu Jan 08 07:02:50 -0800 2009 4306884 14386 BobB 8 4306928 Thanks Bob and GIO Thu Jan 08 07:08:53 -0800 2009 4306913 11290 jfood 6 4306915 The Rib Resolution link is..... http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/444218#2970317 Thu Jan 08 07:03:14 -0800 2009 4306821 75332 Gio 7 4307621 Thanks everyone. It resolved much more peacefully than the possibilities indicated on that infamous thread. Thu Jan 08 10:21:38 -0800 2009 4306915 23298 SanJoseHound 5 4308525 Oh my gosh, it's so exciting to see a "live" post from you - I was totally enthralled with the great rib debate when I first found this site maybe a year ago! You really know how to entertain a crowd LOL! Thu Jan 08 13:41:24 -0800 2009 4302761 143696 Catskillgirl 5 5151098 that post was quoted again here http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/657999 Mon Nov 02 21:17:39 -0800 2009 4302761 13283 julietg 1 4286126 "Also, this is not the first time they've done this to me." Hello. Only one way to handle this. NEXT TIME when they call you tell them EXACTLY what you have prepared, adding "It is not a potluck, I have made three appetizers: one of them with 7 lbs of cheese and 10 different types of crackers, two pounds of dip and a 1.5 bag of chips, 15 lbs of mixed fruits and nuts, a 30 pound turkey, 10 lbs of mashed potatoes, a salad that fits into three of my large salad bowls, 5 dozen rolls, 22 bottlesof wine, 6 different pies and two cakes. Really, I do not need anything". If after that they still feel the need to bring something, have potlucks and be done with it. Provide the house and beverages. For some reason, they seemed to have thought you did not have enough food. You have to make it clear. Wed Dec 31 12:20:42 -0800 2008 4286066 12123 Cathy 2 4286288 Seems to me like they love you a lot and really accept you into their family. Sounds like a good thing - be very, very grateful. I'm sorry you found it difficult to be kind to them. You could have stored the food overnight in a cool place and donated it to a soup kitchen or a battered women's shelter the next day. Lots of children like pigs in blanjets and supermarket sliced cheeses, and pies. What were you celebrating, anyway? Wed Dec 31 13:33:19 -0800 2008 4286126 211115 neverlate 3 4286330 You're very generous. To me, it seems like Taurean's in-laws thought Taurean's food would suck, and they were making sure they'd have something to eat if it did. Viperlush's suggestion - to keep the food as a "backup" in case you run out - sounds like a logical one. My sympathies, Taurean. That's a lousy and uncomfortable situation, and I'm sorry you had to go through it. Wed Dec 31 13:42:51 -0800 2008 4286288 13722 small h 4 4302413 You know, this is actually what I thought too, LOL. This might happen in my ethnic family, now that I think about it, because the hostess was not considered capable of pulling off the holiday dinner. Especially if the DIL was not a member of our "tribe". Maybe they are not this way -- hopefully not, anyway, and they are genuinely trying to be helpful. Stand your ground. If the issue is that they really don't like your food, they will work to compromise so that they can make you happy. Tue Jan 06 18:13:46 -0800 2009 4286330 87837 RGC1982 3 4294846 I don't know, I think they sound a bit like Marie Barrone. Anyone who ignores what you've requested and forces their own will on you isn't a gracious guest. Sun Jan 04 11:03:01 -0800 2009 4286288 222865 FoodChic 4 4302421 Yes, but Marie Barone was horrified that her DIL chose to make FISH for Thanksgiving. This is almost justified. What she should have done, and this wouldn't have made good entertainment, was talk to her DIL about how disppointed her family would be if no turkey was served, and ask if she couldn't consider serving both -- just to make some people happy. Mama Barone just showed up with a turkey, I recall, with no advance warning. Tue Jan 06 18:15:31 -0800 2009 4294846 87837 RGC1982 5 4302491 Very true, she did indeed. But she also brought her own hors devours to the shower that Debra was hosting...."not the frozen kind." Which resulting in DIL drinking the night away...which is exactly what I would have done if I were Taurean. Tue Jan 06 18:37:24 -0800 2009 4302421 222865 FoodChic 6 4303579 I don't remember seeing that episode on the re-run schedule Very funny. Wed Jan 07 07:37:55 -0800 2009 4302491 87837 RGC1982 2 4286331 After 30+ years of dealing with inlaws, I agree that sometimes it is best to "have potlucks and be done with it." Since you have your family for Christmas dinner make it easy on yourself Christmas Eve with the inlaws bearing food. I am curious-what did DH think about the influx of food to your holiday table? But whatever you do try not to overthink your actions-I see nothing wrong with what you did-it is your home after all. Wed Dec 31 13:42:55 -0800 2008 4286126 44946 foodseek 2 4287189 And I would add to that, "So, unfortunately, if you bring something, I won't be able to serve it that night." Thu Jan 01 04:35:19 -0800 2009 4286126 10985 MMRuth 3 4297639 That's the ticket - though I would omit "be able to" to avoid a legalistic dispute. Mon Jan 05 10:41:40 -0800 2009 4287189 13819 Karl S 1 4286350 some people get really weird about "their" traditional foods around holidays-- for whatever reason, the sun won't come up the next morning if tante helga's julekage isn't on the holiday table, or whatever. and, for some people, this means chex mix or whatever, or pigs in blanket. you taking the whole dinner on & making it fancy may have looked to your in-laws like you were looking down on their regular, pre-you, holiday foods maybe? unfortunately it sounds like they brought so much crap that they probably didn't get to try much of the great food you made, and discover what they were missing. try taking it by degrees next year-- if someone's homemade cookies are good, or their 7 layer dip isn't horrible or whatever, go out of your way to ask them to bring it-- just that item, stressing that you had so much food it was wasteful this year, etc. . . they will be flattered and feel like they are contributing, and won't feel like their holiday has been hijacked by an outsider (some folks i know are, 35+ years into marriage, still "the outsider"), and then, hopefully, everyone can relax and enjoy everyone's contribution a little, and then, take two pastry knives, and blend, gently, just til combined. . . :) Wed Dec 31 13:48:38 -0800 2008 4286066 46030 soupkitten 2 4331055 My thoughts were very similar. For many people a holiday = specific dishes. I also thought the MIL & SIL might have been frustrated that they weren't hosting, and all that cooking energy ended up creating the going overboard scenario. Thu Jan 15 23:52:07 -0800 2009 4286350 111267 meatn3 3 4331212 I think it's called "understudy syndrome." They keep dreaming of the limelight and being the star. Fri Jan 16 05:03:42 -0800 2009 4331055 112096 Caroline1 1 4286470 There's not much you can do about family. What I find shockingly rude is the guest who brought wine and then took it back with her when she left. Wed Dec 31 14:36:07 -0800 2008 4286066 98493 JamieK 2 4297772 Totally agree with this. I don't get what taking a gift back has anything to do with asking people to bring home leftovers. Mon Jan 05 11:16:38 -0800 2009 4286470 56784 lanersg 2 5153460 I agree. I know I'm late responding, but I think this guest should have been required to stop in at the stomach-pumping station on her way out the door, hahaha. Tue Nov 03 16:11:09 -0800 2009 4286470 19782 Full tummy 1 4286500 I know how you feel and I am completely on your side. There's nothing you can do with people like this in your family, I have them too. They don't like or want good, homemade food. Make one thing and let them bring everything else, then have your own party the next day or the day after, even if it's just you and your SO, maybe a couple of close friends who do know how to attend a party and appreciate good food. Wed Dec 31 14:52:12 -0800 2008 4286066 19518 rockandroller1 1 4286511 my deflection technique for this problem is when someone says "can I bring anything?" I respond "an appetite and pleasing disposistion.......oh, and wine, bring wine!!" that way, they get the point about the food, and even if they do go overboard on bringing wine(like thats a problem, right?) its something that wont go to waste. Wed Dec 31 14:55:26 -0800 2008 4286066 39457 nkeane 2 4286870 If people ask what they can bring, sometimes I suggest flowers. That can work if the only issue is a reluctance to show up at the door empty-handed. But if the issue is something else, which is what it sounds like in this situation, then it won't make a difference. Wed Dec 31 18:08:54 -0800 2008 4286511 138816 jlafler 2 4287098 Nkeane; I have a friend who, self-taught, is an accomplished cook. When I ask "can I bring anything?" his response is always, "come hungry and thirsty" (he is also into wines). I usually bring a small non-food item like flowers, or a book he and his wife have wanted but don't have, anything personal and a sign of my appreciation in advance. And I agree with you completely on this point. There is no problem with bringing too much wine. As JamieK expressed, it was beyond rude (ok, I added "beyond") for the guest to bring wine and take it back. Only one way around a guest like that (if they come around next year), open her/his bottle first! Thu Jan 01 00:07:30 -0800 2009 4286511 205148 ideabaker 1 4286551 Taurean, only you know the history of your relationship with your in laws and thus whatever subtext was underlying the situation. But on the face of it, it just sounds like they were expressing that holiday feeling of wanting to share and bounty is better. Messing up my carefully considered planning would irk me too but I wouldn't take it as an insult if they're generally good and loving folks. You want to know real insult? Every single holiday, for as long as I can remember, my father's mother would show up with a complete holiday dinner to compete with my mother's. There would be two turkeys or two hams, two lasagnas, duplicate side dishes, desserts, soups, appetizers. The whole deal. My crafty grandmother would elbow her food to the table first to take pride of place and my poor mother would quietly gnash her teeth in the kitchen strangling dish clothes. Grandma's excuse for such appaling behavior? She had to make sure "her boy" got a "decent" holiday meal. What a minefield of divided loyalties those dinners were. See? It could be way worse. ;) Wed Dec 31 15:10:29 -0800 2008 4286066 51839 boppiecat 2 4286642 Exactly. My in laws do that all the time because they're honestly trying to help out, and bring the best they can, even if it's hormel and velveeta cheese. They really love it and want to share. The first year, it threw me because we ended up with 8 desserts (4 I had made), 5 that were pumpkin based. But, at this point, if they want to bring eggrolls and I'm having Italian, I put out the eggrolls because no one but me notices it doesn't belong and everyone likes it. They've grown up as a family and are used to their own foods. If they would tell me ahead of time, I'd plan to make less but still haven't figured out a polite way to ask if they're planning on bringing food, without making it seem like I expect them to bring something. Your mom sounds like a saint. I can tell you that my husband would get an earful if that happened! Wed Dec 31 15:53:28 -0800 2008 4286551 39874 chowser 3 4321643 Yes, here's the problem: There is a lot of misunderstanding about ownership. Who does Christmas-eve dinner belong to? Taurean believed that the Christmas-eve dinner belonged to HER because she hosted and invited, cooked and cleaned (and who among us wouldn't make that mistake). OTOH, the various relatives believed that Christmas-eve dinner belonged to them, or that Christmas-eve dinner is a shared occasion. Who wants one's Christmas-eve ruined by someone else receiving all the glory and credit for cooking? Or, who wants one's Christmas-eve ruined by a smaller and/or different variety of food than is custom or traditional? Most people aren't that flexible. So, Taurean's mistake was misunderstanding the function of Christmas-eve dinner. One cannot own Christmas-eve dinner within a family, unless one has a long tradition of ownership, something like squatters-rights. That's what dinner parties are for! Running your own show as you entertain, calling the shots, making sure that all details meet your own standards (is for dinner parties). That is not, I repeat that is NOT, what Christmas-eve dinner is for. Christmas-eve is for trying to fit-in to whatever group-think the elders have (so long as it's not dangerous or mean) and for "helping out" (and sometimes innovate) in a way the elders will perceive as helpful. If there is no "pleasing" these people, no matter what you do, then fake it, "share" Christmas-eve with them, and throw a lovely dinner party (for your own crowd) as soon as possible. It's NOT personal. It's family holiday dynamics. Tue Jan 13 07:48:53 -0800 2009 4286642 255706 lifespan 1 4286588 Taurean, you might have packed all your food and served it the next day for your planned Christmas meal. Also put away the silver and nice platters, put out paper plates and plasticware to go with the tupperware and then enjoy the company - with more rum eggnogs and that bottle of wine that left at the end of your night. Happy New Year! Wed Dec 31 15:30:15 -0800 2008 4286066 36661 Sam Fujisaka 2 4287191 I know this may be curmudgeonly, but I really could not bring myself to use paper plates and plasticware, regardless of the situation. I have a hard time even using paper napkins, and only bring them out when I'm serving something REALLY messy. Thu Jan 01 04:38:03 -0800 2009 4286588 10985 MMRuth 3 4287226 I couldn't either, but Taurean describes a situation that required a drastic and ludicrous response. The image of the invading Tupperware filling up her buffet was what got to me. Thu Jan 01 05:33:27 -0800 2009 4287191 36661 Sam Fujisaka 4 4287230 I couldn't let that Tupperware on my table either (grin)! But, I do have tremendous sympathy for Taurean's problem, though fortunately have not encountered it myself. Thu Jan 01 05:41:36 -0800 2009 4287226 10985 MMRuth 3 4287253 I too have a hard time with paper plates. Not just for environmental reasons (which are many), but mostly because (even Chinet) comes across (to me) as cheap and throwaway... two things I don't want the food I've fussed over associated with! Thu Jan 01 06:05:51 -0800 2009 4287191 205148 ideabaker 4 4287255 Remember, in the scenario I suggested, I would have removed all my food and served theirs on disposables prior to my hitting the hootch. Thu Jan 01 06:08:17 -0800 2009 4287253 36661 Sam Fujisaka 5 4287270 Hey, in-laws, much better to welcome them, they mean well. Remember they are 1/2 your kids gene pool Fresh food in tupperware will forever beat c-rats, MRE's or Spam. God bless our troops in the New Year. They give us the affluence to be picky about tupperware. Happy New Years (and February too.) Primo-san. Thu Jan 01 06:22:52 -0800 2009 4287255 93538 Passadumkeg 5 4290533 Sam, I'm sure no one could ever win an argument with you. You are just too expedient! The best guest at the party! So, is the answer to have plenty of strong stuff to drink around? Anyone that brings food without being asked to deserves it. Fri Jan 02 14:11:53 -0800 2009 4287255 23178 P Macias 6 4290543 Sam might be talkin' about takin' the hootch and going off into a dark, quiet corner by himself. Not sure. Fri Jan 02 14:16:19 -0800 2009 4290533 137946 Scargod 7 4290633 Nah, bit of hooch always makes me forgive everything and love everyone. Fri Jan 02 14:45:10 -0800 2009 4290543 36661 Sam Fujisaka 8 4290715 I was trying to do that last night at a party and my SO got bent. Fri Jan 02 15:15:21 -0800 2009 4290633 137946 Scargod 8 4295148 Unless they drink the well dry faster than you can get a bucket up.As could half of my inlaws if I let them. Sun Jan 04 12:56:58 -0800 2009 4290633 203919 lcool 3 4291108 A good friend, and she and i are both tabletop junkies, was outraged when forced to have Thanksgiving at her sisters house. That sister is phobic about eating food prepared off premises and then served up dinner on paper plates. I was a bit outraged for her too. I think there were only 9 people at dinner and even if she was depending on well water that was inexcusable. Fri Jan 02 17:49:47 -0800 2009 4287191 10285 Candy 4 4304832 I live 3000 miles away from my family and my dearest friend always includes me and my son for Thanksgiving. I am so happy to be invited and treated cordially and with welcome arms, and expected to come every year, I don't care what paper plates she uses. She makes an effort to set a nice table, even tho using themed paper goods and I'm grateful for it. If it makes her life easier, I'm all for it. Wed Jan 07 12:30:39 -0800 2009 4291108 14447 rednails 5 4308541 I have that same far-away family, and that same best friend! She's not a very good cook, always uses paper plates and plastic silverware, but she makes sure that I am never alone on holidays. (Unless I want to be). Her warm heart more than makes up for her culinary ineptness and the not-so-pretty table she sets! Thu Jan 08 13:45:30 -0800 2009 4304832 143696 Catskillgirl 1 4286673 Short of divorce, I think you're stuck. You married into a family with an established pattern of behavior for family get-togethers, regardless of whose home they happen to be held at. There's at least two of them (MIL and SIL) and you're the new kid, so you're probably going to have to learn to adapt. Maybe for the next occasion when you host, you could call ahead to your MIL and ask her what she plans to bring so that you "don't prepare the same thing." When she volunteers that ham or whatever, express delight and ask if she wants you to do any particular side dishes. Hey, you're off the hook for the main course. It's a family party and they're going to be happy with the family all together anyway. Then tell MIL that you're going to check with SIL about desserts and appetizers so you don't duplicate her efforts. SIL will be pleased to bring her favorite stuff too and you can offer to do something. If you coordinate well, you can have your own nice dishes really to use instead of Tupperware and tin foil. Out of 12 people at your party, weren't at least half of them family? If they don't mind sliced cheese and pigs-in-blankets, can't you cope with it for one night??? At least the stuff is GONE. You done have to deal with it after the party. MIL and SIL are happy, you got out of cooking more than half the meal for people who didn't really care anyway. Expectations always breed resentments. You expected them to enjoy your meal and your efforts. When they brought their own stuff, you resented it. They have NO idea that you didn't appreciate their efforts, because it's always been "done that way in their family." You put so much effort into entertaining them. Don't do it again. Try going with the flow and accepting that it's only one family meal here and there. Save your best entertaining skills for friends who will appreciate them. Wed Dec 31 16:14:36 -0800 2008 4286066 32444 MakingSense 2 4286874 Excellent advice. Wed Dec 31 18:13:13 -0800 2008 4286673 138816 jlafler 2 4287034 I think you're right that the solution is family dinners made to family expectations and dinner parties for people who will appreciate them. You can put different kinds of love into different kinds of food, and it can still be honest and from the heart. Reminds me of a beloved family story when we brought some fine cheese to casual backyard dinner. It was what we had to share (we were traveling) and we knew our hosts would enjoy it. Their extended family, however, thought it was downright exotic, and one little girl piped up, "I like the cheese that comes in the plastic!" It's funny now... Wed Dec 31 21:52:57 -0800 2008 4286673 64882 Vetter 2 4294226 Great reply! Sun Jan 04 05:51:41 -0800 2009 4286673 142853 Alica 2 4312564 In some cases, this is good advice, but depending on the dynamics of their particular relationship, it could lead to MIL telling *other*family members that, "Taurean 'hosted' but *I* had to bring the ham!" If that's the nature of the relationship, there's no winning, other than to refuse to play. Fri Jan 09 18:23:59 -0800 2009 4286673 13700 ricepad 3 4316036 Normally, when I host I provide everything - except perhaps the salad or desert or such which a guest asks to bring. That;s what Taurean had in mind (I guess) A different model for the dinner party is that I only provide the place and dishes etc and I coodinate - I talk with MIL and we decide that she will bring a Ham, SIL brings sides, etc. We used to do things that way when we were impoverished grad students - a potluck - lots of fun. [sarcasm]Since the family has so many wonderful cooks, why not let everyone make somehing they do so very well?[/sarcasm] Sun Jan 11 09:51:16 -0800 2009 4312564 69680 rich in stl 1 4287097 Been there, done that, burned the tee shirt with the divorce celebration! '-) Seems to me you're bashing your head against a brick wall. We all do it. But fact is some people just aren't comfortable with silver and porcelain. So my suggestion is, for the sake of your sanity, divide friends and family into two camps: Those who want to bring their own food and prefer Dixie paper plates with plastic glasses and forks and have one party for them, along with a "special" libation for you tucked away in the kitchen, and just let it roll and enjoy what you can. Then have YOUR party, with friends who respect your ability as a cook and hostess, and polish up the silver, order a centerpiece from the florist, make the crystal sparkle and have a blast! '-) Happy New Year! Thu Jan 01 00:02:20 -0800 2009 4286066 112096 Caroline1 2 4287120 Amen, Caroline! Finding those boundaries makes life awesome. Happy, healthy and prosperous New Year to all. Thu Jan 01 00:44:33 -0800 2009 4287097 239340 latindancer 3 4287157 Kick back, enjoy the show and save your elaborate cooking for me! Happy New Year y Un Prospiero Ano Nuevo, Lantino Balialndo! Thu Jan 01 02:50:10 -0800 2009 4287120 93538 Passadumkeg 4 4287203 I feel your frustration. Not so sure if you will be able to change their ways though. It also brought a smile in thoughts of my in-laws from years back. First married and moved away from my family. The first thanksgiving my MIL announced she wanted me to take that over as she had done it for so many years. I asked her what were all the typical dishes for them. She and SIL arrived 1 hr late and brought side dishes that needed to be cooked at different temps. A lot of reheating and trying to cook at that point. Both MIL and husband have passed away about 10 years ago-Those memories and challenges bring nothing but smiles now. Thu Jan 01 05:06:10 -0800 2009 4287157 96057 dklipscomb 2 4294704 Exactly. Sun Jan 04 10:08:46 -0800 2009 4287097 59001 PurpleTeeth 1 4287254 Taurean, This is just an observation. If you have married into a family that places the bounty of food over presentation and arrangement of it, you're stuck. Nobody is going to change past the age of 25 so I think that it is a matter of workin around this. I know someone who finds gatherings at the inlaws bewildering because there always has to be so much food that is never eaten. None of it ever goes to waste but its about having lots of choice and upholding tradition. At least nobody brings a tomato aspic as one of my friend's relatives insists on doing ven though nobody is of the generation where eating aspic is the norm. I think that it can be frustrating when you are putting a lot of effort into entertaining. You know your own boundaries here and they will probably not be any different the next time you have a family gathering. There is enough stress that goes into the holidays. Reduce yours and just roll with it. Some of the suggestions that have been given by prior posters are actually quite wise. Good luck and all the best to you. Thu Jan 01 06:07:15 -0800 2009 4286066 18056 Zengarden 1 4287416 I think the lowered expectations approach is good. You can try and limit the big family-in-law gatherings at your place. You will (hopefully), eventually find some that will appreciate your cooking and perhaps you can share your food in a more intimate setting with them. We aren't privy to the reasoning of your inlaws or history of meals together, personalities, etc. It could be competition. They may not like your cooking. It could be "foreign" to them... I had some family (members), that would not come to my home for dinner, or they would come but not reciprocate, because they did not like my girlfriend of many years. At least these seem to be willing to do that. Feel fortunate in that respect. I just returned from Tulsa. My first wife's family was from near there. We went to their place for Christmas one year and I had to endure mediocre food, constant cigarette smoking, bad beer and the non-stop television barrage of college football for days. All I could do was go outside and look at cows. I have busted my ass before and had expectations too high. Your fault? Perhaps... If you are new to this family then you probably couldn't have seen it coming. As my Sis says, "Take a chill pill, Bill!" You are (more or less), stuck with 'em. Thu Jan 01 08:13:47 -0800 2009 4286066 137946 Scargod 1 4287442 My in laws also do this. Fortunately they are marvelous cooks, both of them, so even if the food doesn't fit in cuisine-wise, it's great to eat. They're retired and they love to cook. They do not take the left-overs with them thought I've had other guests do this. I'm don't really mind. The only thing that bothers me is when a guest leaves with the food in my dishes! Thu Jan 01 08:30:18 -0800 2009 4286066 248284 taos 2 4297316 When I'm hosting the family dinner - and the family has grown to 26, with 2 more on the way - I buy several packages of plastic take-away containers in various sizes from the dollar store. After the meal - to which, YES, every adult has brought something I didn't ask for but which I have learned to accept graciously because, after 37 years, what else can I do? - all the left-overs go into portioned-out containers. When they leave, everybody gets some of everything and none of it's in my dishes. Mon Jan 05 09:19:33 -0800 2009 4287442 10787 Deenso 3 4297449 That's a good idea with the takeaway containers. Whether they've contributed or not, my inlaws (also number about 26) think dinner comes with take out. I'm usually left with no tupperware until they give it back. I've had some pack up their take out BEFORE dinner was served, for people who couldn't make it. Mon Jan 05 09:56:33 -0800 2009 4297316 39874 chowser 3 4298522 I learned a great trick from the mother of an old boyfriend- start washing and collecting plastic food containers with lids (cottage cheesse, sour cream, etc.) and when people ask what they can bring, request they bring containers to take home leftovers. The combination of collecting and requesting usually results in enough containers to keep everyone happy, including the host(ess) with no food going to waste and no money spent on more plastic. And the other trick I've learned is to be the person splitting up the leftovers, or at least start the process of packaging them. If I've cooked something I love, I get the biggest container for it and stick it in the fridge well-hidden. Mon Jan 05 14:42:22 -0800 2009 4297316 101666 Sisyphus 3 4305003 I've done that too. My family has a tradition of massive Thanksgiving dinners (40+ people for a sit-down dinner), with food responsibilities distributed among the dominant generation. There is always so much left over that the last time I hosted it, three years ago, I bought a pile of disposable take-out containers in advance and made sure everyone took home some food. This was such a hit that it's now part of the family tradition no matter whose turn it is to play host. Wed Jan 07 13:13:20 -0800 2009 4297316 14386 BobB 1 4287477 This sounds like a hard situation. Would it be possible for future events to not host? Where did the family do holiday dinners before you were in the picture? I think it would be less stressful to just go to their house. It seems like they have their way of doing things, and it will be hard to train them to do anything else. Thu Jan 01 08:48:41 -0800 2009 4286066 158016 cassoulady 1 4287556 #1 -don't feel guilty #2 - you cannot change anyone but yourself #3 - be explicit about what they can bring. It won;t work, but do it anyway. be nice about it, tell them you have a menu planned very carefully. #4 - just because they bring it, does not mean it has to hit the table. Nor does it have to usurp your table layout. put out what you want where u want. if you feel you must put their stuff out, put it all at the far end of the table. #5 - let it go. family is more important. this are all minor quibbles in the real large scheme of things. Thu Jan 01 09:27:39 -0800 2009 4286066 135229 thew 1 4288371 HAPPY NEW YEAR and Thanks everyone for all the responses. There are a lot of good ideas to think about for the future. In response to putting up for one night with the pigs in blankets: I know I sound a little ungrateful and don't mean to. In the past I've always put all their food out and it didn't really bother me. This time it felt like a little bit of a hostle take-over. I guess they probably meant well but it killed me to throw so much of my food away. There are no shelters or soup kitchens that take cooked food where I live. Also, there were no children present and no place to store the food, which I had no intentions of serving the next day. I should have mentioned that I'm not new to them. I'm married more than 20 years. They are getting older and set in their ways. I know I can't expect them to change so I guess I'll just have to lower my expectations or simply not do holidays for them. Thanks Again :) PS..I'm definately opening "her" wine first in the future, LOL. Thu Jan 01 16:15:01 -0800 2009 4286066 252484 Taurean 2 4303450 This might be mean and irritate them, but how about sticking to the same message for next year? You fix what they usually bring, only make it better and out of higher quality ingredients. Have things like "pigs in a blanket" but with an "en croute" presentation. Make all natural, fresh dips. Buy unusual chips or make a crispy flatbread. DO use all your good serving china so your stuff shines. Leave theirs in the tupperware or offer plasticware for them to put theirs on. Yours is all taken... hide anything nice that might be available for them to use. Be ready early, so you can just sit and enjoy. Let them fend for themselves. Budweiser might be a better beverage to serve. Then the wine they bring might get drunk! Wed Jan 07 06:53:15 -0800 2009 4288371 137946 Scargod 3 4307733 a little passive-agressive no? And in my mind likely to backfire. Lots of people *like* lipton onion soup dip and "traditional" pigs in a blanket with the pillsbury crescent rolls. They are what people are used to. I've never seen a church potluck where the "old standbys" are ignored, regardless of what else is there on the table! Thu Jan 08 10:50:22 -0800 2009 4303450 18353 DGresh 4 4308456 Don't forget the Ruffles potato chips!!! Thu Jan 08 13:24:49 -0800 2009 4307733 142853 Alica 4 4312605 Pigs in blankets are not considered that low brow anymore. The New York Times dining section did a full page article about them a couple of years ago - seems like everybody loves them, in all their variations. Fri Jan 09 18:37:34 -0800 2009 4307733 211115 neverlate 5 4316175 Whoo-Hoo! We can come out of the closet now! I do love those little guys. Sun Jan 11 10:57:28 -0800 2009 4312605 143696 Catskillgirl 2 4311508 Very gracious reply, btw. It's nice that you were open to suggestions and have taken them to heart. And, I totally agree w/ you on the wine. :-) Fri Jan 09 12:40:58 -0800 2009 4288371 39874 chowser 1 4290116 One more thought: You obviously conceived of this event as a Dinner Party, thus the title to your post. But it appears that your family thought of the event as a Holiday Party or Family Celebration, which has a very different emphasis and set of traditions. At this season and time of year, especially with family dominating the guest list, I'd assume the evening to be less focused on the set menu and pretty buffet and more a chance for family to get together, share food and company, and even exchange gifts -- food being among them. I appreciate your sharing the story and needing the chance to vent, and I agree that bringing moving boxes full of food is presumptuous. But c'mon -- at Christmastime inviting family and with two decades of history, you needed to manage either your expectations or communication a lot better. Fri Jan 02 11:24:58 -0800 2009 4286066 10855 nosh 2 4290565 While I agree with your comments in theory, it's also true that life is a two way street. So the "family" has two decades of experience in knowing how Taurean prefers to entertain. Are they deaf and blind? Fri Jan 02 14:22:17 -0800 2009 4290116 112096 Caroline1 3 4291002 Probably neither deaf nor blind, but something much more pernicious; they're stubborn. It seems they want the holiday their way or the highway. I'd save my energy and throw such a dinner party for friends who'd appreciate it. With such in laws, it's probably best just to provide the home and the drinks and let them potluck, tupperware and all. Fri Jan 02 17:01:37 -0800 2009 4290565 24126 amyzan 4 4295081 At their own home. Sun Jan 04 12:30:52 -0800 2009 4291002 203919 lcool 3 4291049 "So the "family" has two decades of experience in knowing how Taurean prefers to entertain." not to be offensive, but maybe after 20 years they know they won't like the food it's family, after all...I kind of expect that with my in laws! Fri Jan 02 17:23:47 -0800 2009 4290565 11524 chef4hire 1 4291570 I think in the future you should just make the main dish and let them handle the rest, it will your party much easier for you! Fri Jan 02 21:40:24 -0800 2009 4286066 15507 Rick 1 4291772 It's impossible to know why people act the way they do over food. Food is such emotional stuff. Sometimes, especially in this busy world, people just want to be thoughtful and help share the burden of cost and preparation work. But. They should ask once or twice if they can bring something, and when you say no, they should demure, graciously. When people arrive with five desserts, or cartons of food, or foods that don't complement a menu that you've put effort into developing and executing, they sometimes have general control issues or need to be the center of attention. Watch out for those types and don't feel bad about not enabling their lack of manners. I don't see any way around the fact that it is extremely rude behavior to bring boatloads of food to someone else's event, after you've been asked not to, or told it wasn't necessary, or asked merely to bring one dessert. Many of us want to bring something, but if it's clearly not a potluck, then we have to reel ourselves in and choose a nice, inedible hostess gift instead, like some flowers, a nice candle or CD, some gift soaps, or wine or special spice or coffee selection the host and hostess can enjoy later, or simply return the gift of hospitality through a subsequent invitation to our home where we do all the cooking by way of thank-you. The thing is that you spent money and time to purchase and prepare the food. Guests should be sensitive to that. You have absolutely nothing to feel bad about. If someone has brought food that was unsolicited, and it's not eaten during the night, and you either don't have room to store it, or don't care to, or maybe don't think it's in your best dietary interest to have five desserts hanging around, then sending it home with the one who brought it by his/her own stubborn determination, or offering it to other guests who might enjoy it at home, is absolutely fine. You're under no obligation to keep food for which you don't have room. And it's not your responsibility to transport and donate it the following day, although you certainly could suggest that the person who brought it take care of that task on his or her own, if s/he doesn't care to take it home. I don't know of any etiquette guide that says otherwise, Taurean. Sat Jan 03 01:44:10 -0800 2009 4286066 244717 Steady Habits 1 4294855 You know.....posts like this make me realize that I am not a very tactful person. Well...perhaps that is too strong--I just tell it like it is. That HAS happened to me during my marriage. It happened once and never again. I told my MIL that when in MY home we eat what I make--unless I ask guests to bring the food, you can expect to eat what I am serving. You have the option of declining if you do not like my food. End of story. But I have always said things like this with a smile! Sun Jan 04 11:05:01 -0800 2009 4286066 239703 jarona 1 4295134 Clueless as to appropriate,each family is different.In my family we do not do "pot luck".A different story among the inlaws .("better living through chemistry") Even they prefer not to eat their own food.Sooooooo if it is a pot luck they can hope the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a TRAIN. After a late arrival with ?? 35 years ago to interfere with a complete elaborate meal I took a very firm stance.It needs to go to the car NOW so you won't forget to take it home and enjoy it.Have made it very clear in a quiet way over the years that if you want to have a "certain" kind of party etc,it needs to be YOUR party.We have the same problem in our wine circle with 2 or 3 that need to ?? fix ,help,control things ,rather than host their own parties. Interestingly none of the above ever host anything and have gotten snippy about the lack of false praise and gratitude.well I never position with care and cleverness it can be prevented and controled Sun Jan 04 12:51:42 -0800 2009 4286066 203919 lcool 1 4297539 One year for Thanksgiving, I was asked to bring pies. I baked, from scratch, 3 beautiful pies, not having been informed that another family member was also asked to bring pies. She brought 3 pies she had purchased from Marie Callender's. I was so PO'd that I refused to ever bring pies again. This year, the people who were supposed to bring pies had to cancel at the last minute, so I was again asked to bring pies. I agreed, after much coaxing from my husband, but not before confirming twice that no store-bought pies will be sharing the counter space with my pies. I even had my husband deliver the message that I will remove the pies if there is a store-bought pie in the house. Perhaps extreme, but to have my fabulous pies presented with disgusting, overly sweet, hard-crusted pies from Marie's is too much of an insult. Mon Jan 05 10:17:44 -0800 2009 4286066 10401 soniabegonia 2 4297645 Lighten up, it's only pies! It reminds me of artists showing in group shows here in the Hamptons not wanting their work hung on the same wall with certain other artists. Big deal, happens all the time, how amateurish....... Mon Jan 05 10:43:58 -0800 2009 4297539 211115 neverlate 3 4297728 yes, I am the self-proclaimed pie nazi. That's ok. I take my pies very seriously, because pies are, no doubt, the perfect dessert. And yes, I am extremely opinionated about pies. I don't mind others bringing home-made pies; I'm just very much opposed to mass produced pies. Mon Jan 05 11:05:39 -0800 2009 4297645 10401 soniabegonia 4 4297923 but anyone with discerning taste will know the difference, and who cares what those who can't tell the difference think Mon Jan 05 11:54:01 -0800 2009 4297728 135229 thew 2 4304875 Many years ago my sister-in-law brought Mrs. Smiths pies to Thanksgiving. At the time, I made a joke of it (to my other sister). But now, I think, maybe she just didn't have the time to bake, or something went wrong with what she had made, that she couldn't bring it. The same could have happened in your situation. Either way, I wouldn't be so PO'd now. I've mellowed alot......there are a lot more important things for me to get me mad. Wed Jan 07 12:41:17 -0800 2009 4297539 14447 rednails 2 4307708 Wow. That would be the last time you were ever invited to my house, so you wouldn't have to worry about whether to bring pies again. No way I would tolerate one guest (you) demeaning another (the one who brought the store bought pies) in such a way in my house. Thu Jan 08 10:45:03 -0800 2009 4297539 23389 charmedgirl 3 4311021 Whatever. What I didn't mention was that this same person has always brought Marie's pies. I was made to believe that I would be the pie supplier that Thanksgiving but unbeknownst to me, this person was asked to bring pies anyway. I also didn't demean anyone at the party or anytime after. I didn't say one word about her store-bought pies. In fact, she seemed embarrassed and muttered, "I don't know why we were both asked to bring pies... " And all pies were presented, and a lot was left uneaten because there were too many. Only some years later, this Thanksgiving, I was asked to bring pies again and I didn't want my pies being shared with nasty pies. If you ask someone to bring the turkey to Thanksgiving, you wouldn't ask another person to bring a turkey too. And if you roasted your turkey and the other person brought a store-bought turkey, you'd be PO'd too. Same goes for any other dish - stuffing, mashed potatoes, whatever... If you ask one person to supply the dish, you shouldn't ask another person to supply the same dish. It's rude to both people and you inevitably end up with too much food. If others are asked to bring the same dish, then the host should inform them accordingly so they make a smaller portion. If I had known, I would have brough just 1 pie. Fri Jan 09 09:56:07 -0800 2009 4307708 10401 soniabegonia 4 4311093 You said you refused to ever bring pies again and had your husband deliver the message that you would remove your pies if there is a store bought pie in the house and you're saying that isn't demeaning to the person who brought store bought pies?? "Whatever" right back at you. And no, I would NOT be PO'd if either (1) a host asked me and someone else to bring the same thing -- maybe there are a lot of people coming, maybe everyone loves that thing, who knows, she's the host, it's her party, her call; and (2) the other person brought an "inferior" version of the item -- so long as I am proud of the time and effort I put into my dish and people enjoy it, what do I care if they also enjoy someone else's? That doesn't diminish me at all. Fri Jan 09 10:15:53 -0800 2009 4311021 23389 charmedgirl 5 4311183 I'd be thrilled if I brought tasty handcrafted pies and someone else brought some store-bought crap. I'd be proud as those who could tell the difference ooed & aahhed over my creations by comparison. And those philistines who can't tell the difference? Don't really care; it's their loss. I'm secure enough in my abilities as to allow the pies to speak for themselves. No threats, hysterics, or ultimatums needed. Fri Jan 09 10:48:27 -0800 2009 4311093 13853 Leonardo 5 4311218 My refusal to bring pies was an independent, private decision, which I discussed with my husband, but not something I proclaimed or even hinted at during the party. I don't think the host should ask their guests to bring enough of one item for the entire party if other people are asked to bring the same thing. It's wasteful of food and people's time. I'm done with the subject. Fri Jan 09 11:17:49 -0800 2009 4311093 10401 soniabegonia 6 4311285 No you're not! I want some of your pie! Fri Jan 09 11:40:50 -0800 2009 4311218 36661 Sam Fujisaka 6 4311572 Me too. Since we disagree with each other so vehemently, it's probably a good thing we never have to worry about attending each other's parties. I do like a good pie though, so I am sorry to miss out on that. :-) Fri Jan 09 12:57:26 -0800 2009 4311218 23389 charmedgirl 5 4311265 Charmed, you took the words right out of my mouth. I was on the verge of responding and you said it perfectly. Last Thanksgiving, there were 2 turkeys, 2 stuffings, mashed potatoes, sweet potatoes, traditional pumpkin pie and pumpkin mousse pie (both made by the host) etc etc. There was only one salad--mine, requested by my friend. Nobody's ego was twisted in knots, everyone was happy and well fed, and there were left-overs for folks to take home. Fri Jan 09 11:36:31 -0800 2009 4311093 14447 rednails 5 4312402 May I interject? Soniabegonia was demeaning to her husband and the host - how embarassing for them when guests find out they were PWhipped just for the sake of pies. Fri Jan 09 17:24:37 -0800 2009 4311093 211115 neverlate 6 4339748 What is PWhipping a guest? Is it in a can? Mon Jan 19 15:07:28 -0800 2009 4312402 137946 Scargod 7 4339977 Oh, you good Southern Baptist, you! Another, more polite, personification is "henpecked". Meeow Keg Mon Jan 19 16:30:30 -0800 2009 4339748 93538 Passadumkeg 4 4312819 Here is another side: I had about 10 people coming over for dinner once, I always cook and I love to. One woman said,I really want to make something. I thought, okay if she really wants to that is fine. She wanted to make a dessert so I really felt I did not have to focus on a dessert since one was coming. She called me the day of the dinnner and said, Oh I was really busy with my kids today I really cannot make the dessert. So, I ended up rushing around to prepare the dessert. I know I could have bought something but I usually do not do that when I entertain. Anyway, aside from the fact that I love to cook and plan the menu, that is one of the reasons why I do not like depending on people to bring food. Fri Jan 09 20:14:01 -0800 2009 4311021 142853 Alica 1 4297679 Of course, another approach to the Early Arrivals is to tell them a time to come that is 30 minutes later..... Actually, I am in favor of setting clear boundaries here, rather than acquiescing. Yes, there will be resentment - BUT there already IS plenty of resentment. It's best to re-arrange the resenment more clearly and transparently. You would need your husband's unconditional support to do this. Your husband, if has not already done so, must come to terms with the fact that his family's behavior would very reasonably be considered *very* rude by many people, even if it was normal in his family. That validation and acceptance by him to you may be the tough part - but it's probably the most important part of this equation. One can endure many things when one has the support one deserves from a spouse. If he's unwilling, then you can just stop this kind of entertaining for your in-laws. Mon Jan 05 10:52:31 -0800 2009 4286066 13819 Karl S 1 4299220 I'd prefer people bringing and helping rather than those that do nothing at all. I love to share my cooking with others, but totally get it if people come with 'unsolicited' food - a lot of people feel bad when the host does so much work and want to chip in. I have a SIL who never helps, cooks or cleans, which I think is way worse than someone who actually brings extra food Can you just put the food on a side board and let people who like that kind of food eat it? and then throw it out, donate it or give it to the neighbors the next day? In my house, my husband would love a ham in the fridge for omelets, pea soup, etc. since I never make it! Mon Jan 05 18:46:20 -0800 2009 4286066 122384 jpmcd 2 4299246 Heh. You know, for every thread I see like this where the OP complains about someone bringing food to a gathering and thus ruining their menu - and then the responders generally jump in agreeing w/ them ... there always seems to be another thread where the OP complains about deadbeats who bring nothing to their party w/ responders generally jumping in to agree with them :) Can't please everybody. Mon Jan 05 18:55:56 -0800 2009 4299220 111910 jgg13 3 4299602 The thing is, jgg, there is established etiquette for both types of occasions (i.e., when we're hosts, and when we're guests), and most etiquette guidelines have a basis in logic (for example, the hostess may not have any room to store safely unsolicited food, or the food s/he prepared in advance, if s/he chooses to put the guest's offerings out) and in relationships. I understand what you're saying. Sometimes it feels not only like "can't please everybody"; sometimes, it feels like "can't please anybody", don't you think? ;-) But I don't know that I'd be too concerned about pleasing those who don't observe the basic rules of social etiquette that are designed to help humans get along. I wouldn't *embarrass* them--I'd thank a guest who brings five desserts to a non-potluck party, but I'm not going to change everything I've planned or worked on to accommodate their unilateral decision (which I think sometimes comes from a domineering streak, anyway). As for the other side of the coin, where people don't help...well, I have that every Thanksgiving and Christmas (not my own friends, but my ILs). I don't expect their help; I just work on trying to adjust the menu accordingly. And I'd never expect anyone to bring food when they're asked to be guests at my home. If they offer, and it sounds good with the menu, I might accept (and I have), but I'm not going to put them out either and make them work for their dinners. I invite people to my house so I can show them a little hospitality and (in the case of all the women I know, who are busy taking care of others) give them a little TLC. Then, when it's their turn to host, they do the same for me. It all evens out in the long run. Mon Jan 05 21:36:10 -0800 2009 4299246 244717 Steady Habits 4 4306980 Your TLC is the best idea in the whole world -- sharing your home and food can be an wonderful healing time for those attending. More power to you in 2009! Thu Jan 08 07:26:19 -0800 2009 4299602 211115 neverlate 3 4300638 I don't think this is so hard. I never show up empty handed, but I respect the effort my host is making to prepare something nice. The easiest way to resolve this is to show up ONLY with what the host has requested AND a bottle of wine or liquor that is a gift for the host. When the meal is done, help clear the table and help serve dessert. I do not expect, or want, my guest to assist with dishes. Tue Jan 06 09:36:36 -0800 2009 4299246 222865 FoodChic 4 4301420 Yes, yes, YES! My sil always insists on doing the dishes and it drives me nuts! She can't cook at all - fine! I'm good at it! A bottle of wine for the cook, me, would be appreciated but she doesn't 'approve' of drinking! Tue Jan 06 13:06:47 -0800 2009 4300638 14341 OCEllen 5 4304903 OMG please send your SIL to my house ! :) I can't stand washing dishes. Then again, I won't let guests start doing them in my house because they're guests, and also because I want them to sit with me while I veg post-dinner ! Wed Jan 07 12:47:13 -0800 2009 4301420 153184 im_nomad 6 4304952 Problem is she only washes the top surface of plates and the eating end of utensils - which leaves greasy plate bottoms and utensil handles!! Wed Jan 07 12:57:42 -0800 2009 4304903 14341 OCEllen 7 4305251 Hey, when we were kids, my cousins didn't even rinse off the detergent. I suspect this has probably changed in the intervening 40-ish years. Wed Jan 07 14:16:15 -0800 2009 4304952 138816 jlafler 2 4299517 The OP has explained that the food overwhelmed her small kitchen, that bringing it made extra work for her, that she didn't have room in the fridge for leftovers, and that it's difficult/impossible to donate food that has already been cooked. I agree that it can be annoying when people don't offer to help, but it's similarly annoying when people "help" in ways that ultimately create more work and make the host(ess) feel their efforts are somehow deficient. Mon Jan 05 20:48:50 -0800 2009 4299220 138816 jlafler 1 4299785 Regardless of the intentions of your inlaws, I'd try to embrace what they seem to have been doing for years...I know you'd like them to experience the kind of holiday you're used to and being somewhat OCD, it pains me to see one of my carefully planned buffets cluttered with items that just don't fit in. Also, there may actually be one or two of them who do appreciate your efforts. I think I would just set up my buffet exactly the way I'd like it and have another empty buffet table available for them to put all the dishes they'll undoubtedly bring. I would also try to send as much of the uneaten food home with your guests as possible. Tue Jan 06 00:34:22 -0800 2009 4286066 56183 soypower 1 4302284 Okay, so this post has to do with controlling in-laws rather than with a casual guest who brought unsolicited food to a dinner party. I really expected to read that a well-meaning guest brought a dish that didn't go along with your theme, and I was actually prepared to politely and gently suggest that you chill out. However, this would have had my blood boiling, especially given the energy, time, expense and inconvenience of preparing a holiday dinner, only to have it usurped by "well meaning" relatives. Trust me on this -- if they brought only the ham and one app, I could believe it, but is sounds like they just didn't even acknowledge that you were cooking a holiday dinner. Really offensive, even for in-laws. Here's what I would do: Work on them way in advance next time, and start with your sister-in-law, moving on to MIL next. With a little luck, the SIL will have let the steam out of the kettle before you actually get to your MIL. Gently tell them that while you appreciated their efforts, you were under the impression that you would be cooking, and that you wasted much time, energy, and money last time. It bothered you that you worked hard and your food was not eaten, and you hate to waste food and money like that. You appreciate their efforts, but they must coordinate with you next time so this doesn't happen again. Mention also that since they neglected to discuss their plans with you ahead of time (notice I said plans, meaning that they can be changed or canceled because this is discussed well in advance) they were in your kitchen taking up your needed oven and microwave space at the last minute, while you should have been finishing your dinner. Shocked? Don't be. These are relatives now, not casual guests, so you need to be really clear in a gentle, polite but direct way. If you can't bring yourself to do this, don't do the dinner and let them cook instead. Make sure DH is in on this, or you will lose. If he balks or doesn't understand, let it go and just avoid getting yourself in this situation again. I don't think you should just go along with it. What is the worst that happens? You are the fussy DIL? Aren't they all?:) I would expect a little fallout, but if you plan this about 30-60 days before the next holiday, everyone will have time to calm down. They may just be oblivious, or they may really just be control freaks. Can't tell from here, but you will have to adjust your tone accordingly. I would consider this something that has long term implications, so feel justified in trying it, but be nice and try not to hurt anyone's feelings. Tue Jan 06 17:32:29 -0800 2009 4286066 87837 RGC1982 2 4302313 I said it before and I'll say it again... Tue Jan 06 17:40:51 -0800 2009 4302284 222865 FoodChic 3 4302390 It sounds like you are my kind of guest, Foodchic. So, does this mean you agree or disagree with my advice? Just curious. Tue Jan 06 18:06:16 -0800 2009 4302313 87837 RGC1982 4 4302476 I agree with you wholeheartedly. Tue Jan 06 18:33:18 -0800 2009 4302390 222865 FoodChic 2 4303173 A good plan.... *IF* this was the first time it happened. It is not. OP doesn't state how long she's been married, but doesn't sound like a two or three year marriage to me. Based on Taurean's description of the even, it sounds like an ongoing psychological Tug of War or King of the Mountain game. Who needs that? And then there's the little matter that Taurean is outnumbered. Why not "go with the flow' and take the easy way that would be a big win for Taurean? As I said above, turn the in-law holiday meal into an in-law pot luck. Maybe do one dessert or one dish, but leave the rest of the blood sweat and tears up to the in-laws, since they are so territorial with the work? This would be an "Everybody wins" resolution. As things stand, Taurean is losing at every turn! Incredible amount of work for two family dinners on two consecutive days. Huge waste of time and money cooking for the in laws who insist on cooking for themselves. Pain and frustration at having her efforts rebuffed. I'm not sure I'd go so far as providing paper plates, as I (jokinggly) suggest above, but I would certainly set a more casual table than I would for a formal dinner. And the big bonus to doing things this way is that in addition to making her in-laws THINK they have won (in reality they have lost, lost a LOT!), it frees Taurean of all the expense of dollars, time, and work, and frees up those resources to turn the dinner where she cooks into as elaborate an affair as she wishes. I'd sure call that an "everybody wins" solutions! The firm-talk-with-the-in-laws is really just drawing lines in the sand. There is nothing to be gained by elevating old or creating new tension. Wed Jan 07 02:56:27 -0800 2009 4302284 112096 Caroline1 3 4303198 I think 20 years was mentioned (?). Wed Jan 07 04:02:27 -0800 2009 4303173 36661 Sam Fujisaka 4 4303251 Does anyone know if Taurean has been nominated for sainthood? Tweny years! Ouch. Wed Jan 07 05:14:48 -0800 2009 4303198 112096 Caroline1 3 4303236 See OP's post of 01-01-09 at 6:15 p.m. Wed Jan 07 05:02:58 -0800 2009 4303173 13816 Sister Sue 4 4303257 Thanks. Hey, if she decided to take this route, this year she can have a fun Christmas Eve lunch with girlfriends at a nice laid-back restaurant instead of slaving over a hot stove! Wed Jan 07 05:17:51 -0800 2009 4303236 112096 Caroline1 1 4311399 Now this is a great topic! Taurean, I feel for you and think that your ILs just won't get with the program -- I especially relate to what you say about them coming EARLY. To me this is one of the great social sins. Don't come early! Just don't! And no, you can't help, because I can't stop and think of a harmless "task" that you can do without it chewing up more of my time!!!! (You can see this topic really hits home with me.) By the way, here's a variation on your story: I had had serious surgery and was home recovering. A friend (but not a very close friend) who is a mother hen type kept insisting she wanted to bring over a dinner for us, knowing that I was knocked out. I wish we had just said No. I didn't realize how much work it would be for us to serve her dinner. She brought quite a few courses and some of them required work, such as heating up this sauce, or cooking this or that. There were so many parts, and so much kitchen time, and of course we washed all those serving dishes for her before she left, and really I just wanted to eat lasagna and watch some TV. Anyway, the thought was a good one but if you're trying to help anyone who's been ill or maybe suffered a loss, keep it simple!!! A casserole or a one-dish meal, with maybe a salad on the side, is more than enough. Fri Jan 09 12:10:10 -0800 2009 4286066 106433 Lucymax 2 4311783 Re: Early Folks - I am normally a person who gets to my destination early because I build in time for traffic and parking. I normally don't grace my host's door, however, until a few minutes after the call time (and I am in a group where that time is not a fake code for a significantly later time, oy!). And vice versa. That said, there are some exceptions: inclement weather and distance or something that is less abling, shall we say. Guests admitted Early due to permitted exceptions know that the host is not responsible to take their things or fetch them drinks et cet and they must fend for themselves discreetly out of the host's way while preparations are finalized. And polite guests *never* make demands on the host's stove, oven, frig or freezer for anything they bring without prior clearance from host. Heavens, why don't people think first, act second? Fri Jan 09 13:46:18 -0800 2009 4311399 13819 Karl S 3 4312570 Unless you're asked to come early because you're so handy in the kitchen. Some of the best times in my life was spent cooking together for a party - such rare friends, gone now, hard to replace... Fri Jan 09 18:25:15 -0800 2009 4311783 211115 neverlate 4 4312629 Yes! Such blissful work! With friends one loves and just spreading the 'preparation' makes the party really worth dancing about! Fri Jan 09 18:49:21 -0800 2009 4312570 14341 OCEllen 4 4315691 I wish I had friends who would cook with me. I have one wonderful fcooking riend that lives in another state. Not a single one of my local friends cooks, and I mean they really don't cook. So, when I cook for them, most of them don't seem to get what I've done, but the husbands tend to understand better. It really bums me out. Sun Jan 11 07:12:18 -0800 2009 4312570 222865 FoodChic 4 4318111 being the friend who comes over a couple-few hours early to chop & finish preparations is my favorite job-- i get to do it at every holiday at dh's grandmas for twenty-some folks. the best thing about it is that i'm officially exempt from clearing & dish duty, when i'm full and just want to relax! & cooking w grandma, running up & down the stairs for this & that, heavy lifting etc. is something i'm very happy to do for her. lots of fun. :) Mon Jan 12 06:45:37 -0800 2009 4312570 46030 soupkitten 1 4312632 The line "not a lot of my food was eaten " says it all...they don't like her food.No matter if you accept an invite you eat what is presented if you don't like it you hit the drive through on the way home.Of course if you know they dont like your food but you keep trying to shove it down their throats that could be a power struggle from the flip side. Bottom line good thing they are family because we would never have picked them as friends:) Fri Jan 09 18:52:02 -0800 2009 4286066 11854 LaLa 2 4312941 Exactly! I will always try to eat whatever the host makes, I'm just happy to be invited! BUT the reverse also holds. If I'm the host, I'm going to try to please my guests, serving what I know they will like. I don't think my job as host is to force my likes and dislikes, show my superiority in the kitchen, or try to change other people's ways because I think mine are "better". If old aunt Ida likes her green beans soft, that's what she'll get, even if I pull the rest out of the pan a lot sooner. Fri Jan 09 21:12:36 -0800 2009 4312632 15882 PrincessBakesALot 1 4317667 I was thinking that Taurean's story would make a holiday movie hit. Seems like a lot of peop;e have had experiences like this, had conflicts over food ,expectations, in laws, boundaries, etc. Venting on Chowhound would be part of the story -- picture all the colorful responses. And the potential for product endorsements and lively food prep and wild eating/drinking scenes! Dogs licking plates clean..... and a happy ending, somehow, with no wasted food. Sun Jan 11 21:45:07 -0800 2009 4286066 211115 neverlate 2 4321247 Of course it would have to be the sequel to SanJoseHound's story. The ribs a summer blockbuster comedy and Taurean's the sappy Christmas movie. Tue Jan 13 05:30:52 -0800 2009 4317667 14495 viperlush 2 4321300 and then there's the scene where one of the offending guests recognizes the host's venting post on Chow, and the fun ensues. Tue Jan 13 05:55:35 -0800 2009 4317667 90359 PattiCakes 3 4336941 and then there's the scene where one of the offending guests recognizes the host's venting post on Chow, and the fun ensues. OMG!! I am the OP and don't think it didn't occur to me that might happen. I thought of it AFTER I posted, LOL. Sun Jan 18 13:09:58 -0800 2009 4321300 252484 Taurean 1 4317890 I have had similiar situations, and it's a huge pet peeve of mine. I usually have my serving dishes all spaced, etc., ahead of time, so if someone brings something I am not expecting, it really makes a mess of my presentation. I can usually accomodate an extra plate or two, it's the crazy people bringing their whole kitchen who make me nuts. So if someone goes overboard I don't ruin my display. I get a family member to set up a folding table, for the extra. Yes, it's inconvenient, and yes it makes the area really crowded. And I usually tell the folks who brought the food - 'Joe is setting up card table for you - then you can put your food on that'. So I can go back to whatever it is that is demanding my attention. And my purchased-for-the-day floral arrangement can stay on the buffet, instead of under it, where I found it one year!! Mon Jan 12 03:50:16 -0800 2009 4286066 124908 jeanmarieok 1 4339996 I totally agree with you and would of done the same thing. I make it a point of absolutely telling them NOT to bring anything and in fact I usually give them the entire menu so they can see how much I am making. This is also a pet peeve of mine when people do that. It is difficult, they are being nice and it is appreciated but aggravating as well. 20 years of marriage I delt with it every year, I never got used to it, lol. You are not alone. Mon Jan 19 16:36:42 -0800 2009 4286066 232829 kchurchill5