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Dec 24, 2008 09:08 AM

Can I use all pork in Hazan's Bolognese?

There's a version of her Bolognese that uses two parts beef to one part pork. I'm sitting here with four pounds of bonesless pork shoulder. Would I be desecrating this recipe if I used all pork?

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  1. I would not hesitate in using all pork.

    11 Replies
    1. re: KTinNYC

      Oh goody, that was just the answer I was hoping for. I actually would choose pork over beef in most cases - except for a good steak or rib roast. Thanks, KT.

      1. re: c oliver

        We're talking about pork shoulder, not something like tenderloin, plenty of flavor.

        1. re: KTinNYC

          Right - pork shoulder. Let me pick your brain a little more. Since the recipe uses 3/4# and I'm going to make with 4#, the math would say to quintuple all the ingredients. Since the milk and the wine (which would then increase to 5 cups each) are going to completely cook down, I should be able to get this in a 5 qt Staub pot, don't you think? Any suggestions you care to share will be appreciated. Thanks, kiddo.

          1. re: c oliver

            Oh for sure, it will definitely fit in a 5 qt pot, no problem. I'm not really much for following recipes to a t anyway. I'm sure this will come out fine.

            1. re: KTinNYC

              This reminds me of the first time I multiplied the recipe and was making it in a deep oval le creuset... the milk (4c) was taking so long to reduce that I dumped everything into my large roasting pan and did it over two burners on the stove. All I needed was a hairnet and I could have been the lunch lady at my grade school! Marcella's recipe is so delicious it was worth the extra time and effort though... :) So while it may fit in the 5qt, the time it takes to reduce the liquids may be significantly longer for you.

            2. re: c oliver

              That sounds perfect! I think it it will fit no prob and it will be great. Have you made her recipe before?

              1. re: cassoulady

                I haven't made it before and it's only because of CH'ers that I pulled this book off the shelf. Already hooked on the carbonara. The 5 qt. is, in fact, a challenge. Think about quintupling all those veggies!!! Once I got the meat in, it was full to the brim. So i've switched it to a large, relatively heavy Cuisinart stock pot and are at the milk part. Once it's ALL together, I'll see what it looks like. I'm betting it won't fit back in the 5 qt. Staub. But I bet it's going to be great and I'm going to have lots in the freezer for future meals. It's snowing hard here and I'm in the cookin' mood/mode :) Thanks KT and 'lady.

                1. re: c oliver

                  I made Hazan's (again) Bolognese with ground beef yesterday -- I always triple the recipe. I finally got everything chopped by 2pm and FINALLY cut the stove off at midnight. Had to wait for it to cool off in order to put in fridge. Now, I have to make the fresh pasta for the lasagna I'm taking to a friend's tomorrow. People better tell me it's the best lasagna they've EVER eaten!

                  1. re: walker

                    Oh, walker, I SO know what you mean! I'm pooped and cut a couple of corners time-wise. I didn' wait for the milk or the wine to completely cook down. I figure WTF, it's going to cook for 3 HOURS. Thanks for the commiseration :)

                    1. re: walker

                      Hi again. It's almost 9pm now and still not done. But I know it's going to be so wonderful.

                2. re: c oliver

                  This reminds me of the first time I multiplied the recipe and was making it in a deep oval le creuset... the milk (4c) was taking so long to reduce that I dumped everything into my large roasting pan and did it over two burners on the stove. All I needed was a hairnet and I could have been the lunch lady at my grade school! Marcella's recipe is so delicious it was worth the extra time and effort though... :)

          2. How wet or dry should this be when I finally stop? She says 3 hours... or more. TIA

            10 Replies
            1. re: c oliver

              It's relatively dry - you do want just a little bit of liquid, but not too saucy.

              1. re: MMRuth

                Thanks. And, btw, served "your" arugula salad last night with the carbonara (again). A hit, of course. Thanks for that also.

                1. re: MMRuth


                  Happy holidays. Could you please post the arugala salad recipe or email to jfood.

                  Many thanks and have a great holiday and a new year.

                  1. re: jfood

                    Hi jfood:

                    Happy holidays and New Year to you and yours as well! It's not much of a recipe, but really delicious and quick. I toss arugula with a really good olive oil (I'm partial to fruttato these days), then a little salt and pepper and some lemon juice. Then shave on parmesan. That's it!

                2. re: c oliver

                  Well, I do wait for each reduction. After tomatoes are added, it gently simmers for 3 hours. (I can't resist adding chopped garlic when the onions are almost done. Later, with tomatoes, I add about 2 tsp dried oregano, 2 tsp dried basil and several chopped basil leaves. I just prefer it this way.)

                  So, tonight, after using every dish towel I own to do the fresh pasta sheets the way she instructs -- I'm so tired. It's all ready in the fridge to bake at my friend's house tomorrow. I did a small practice one, too and decided it's a bit greasy. Next time, I'm going to use half as much butter.

                  1. re: walker

                    "after using every dish towel I own"

                    Too funny. I do the same. Every dish towel; every flat surface in my apartment.

                    In fact, just last week my mom gave me a half-dozen heirloom linen dish towels and said "These are for your pasta."

                    Hope the lasagne is everything you fantasized it would be and that your friends swoon over it as do mine.

                    Merry Christmas!

                    1. re: JoanN

                      I'm also lacking in counter space; could use twice as much as I have and I REALLY need an extra person helping me.

                      Some recipes say to dry the pasta a bit first. I have a drying rack and while I'm making the sheets, I drape it on that but when I grab them to cut and then for quick boil, they are cracking some. I guess I should not dry them, right? Maybe only briefly dry cut pasta, like fettucine.

                      1. re: walker

                        I dry the pasta, but only a bit, maybe 10 minutes, if I'm going to make cut pasta such as fettuccine. I'll dry it further after it's been cut. For stuffed pasta or for lasagne, I don't dry it. In fact, I keep it covered until I'm ready to cook it, which is usually as soon as all of it has been rolled and cut to size.

                        I really should treat myself to a drying rack, but I've never figured out where I would store it. When I'm making pasta in my apartment, it always looks as though it has rained noodles in my living room.

                        1. re: JoanN

                          Yes, the second batch I made for the visit to friends tomorrow: I did not dry the lasagna noodles, just kept under towels until I boiled it up.

                          I guess the drying rack is good for fettucine, etc. The one I have is called Tacapasta by Marcato and cost $40 (was I temporarily insane?) at a shop in SF. It's blue plastic and folds up really nicely and I keep it in the box it came in.

                    2. re: walker

                      Yeah, I should have waited for each reduction. That was an awful lot of liquid to reduce at a VERY low temp. But I was a "virgin" and there's always a little pain the first time. Blush :)

                  2. jfood thinks it would be fine as well to use pork in the recipe. There is always a crisis in casa jfood when he removes the last package from the freezer and he is hazan-less. That immediately triggers a 4-hour window that weekend for re-make and re-freeze.

                    Enjoy the sauce and make some fresh pasta and you are in heaven.

                    happy holidays.

                    btw - try the acnneloni. it is way over the top delicious. hint if you do, make the bechamel first.

                    13 Replies
                    1. re: jfood

                      Hi jfood. Just how big a batch do you make at once. I was using a little under 4# of meat so, doing the math, that would have been 5 cups each of milk and wine. I changed that to 4 but it still took forever to reduce. I'm wondering if I should have somewhat more aggressive than "simmer gently." That's why I didn't let the milk and then the wine as much as I should have. But then, of course, I paid the price because that even slower simmer took forever. Any advice for larger batches would be greatly appreciated. I think I'll probably make tagliatelli tonight as I have no ricotta for canneloni and we're snowed in for at least the day. Thanks.

                      1. re: c oliver

                        jfood makes a double recipe with the 1/2C milk recipe from Essentials.

                        There is usually something else going on during the process since trhere is plenty of down time.

                        1. re: c oliver

                          I triple the recipe and use 2 1/4 lbs ground chuck. 3 cups milk, 3 cups wine, then 2 big cans of San Marzano tomatoes.

                          1. re: walker

                            Walker, when you add the milk and then the egg, do you think you have it going hotter than "gently simmer"? With all that liquid it was taking forever to reduce.

                            1. re: c oliver

                              What EGG? You saute the veggies, then add wine and let that reduce, then add the milk and reduce, then canned tomatoes and low simmer for 3 hours. The first 2 reductions are low flame and then she instructs even lower after tomatoes are added. Next time, I'm going to do the tomatoes a bit higher than the gentle bubbles she recommends.

                              As I mentioned before, I got a bit of a late start and got the veggies all chopped and in the pot by 2 pm and did not finish until midnight and still had to wait for it to cool off some before I could refrigerate it.

                              Even tho it's a lot of work to make a fresh pasta lasagna, the pasta sheets are so light and lovely. As instructed, I made them on the thinnest setting.

                              1. re: walker

                                Whao whoa whao!!!

                                We are speaking of Hazan's recipe.

                                Two points:

                                1 - There is NO egg
                                2 - The milk comes BEFORE the wine. The theory is that the milk wilk coat the meat and protect from the acid in the wine keeping it tender.

                                1. re: jfood

                                  Relax, kids. I must have been into the eggnog when I 'mistyped "egg" when I meant "wine." :) And, yes, the milk goes before the wine. I was just wondering, since I was dealing with SO much liquid if there was any reason that I couldn't cook at a higher temp at that point. It took walker ten hour !!! for a triple recipe. If the milk and then wine could cook faster than a slow simmer, it would have reduced my cooking time alot.

                                2. re: walker

                                  Correction: Guess I was tired when I wrote this -- of course, I did add the milk first, reduced, then the wine.

                                  1. re: walker

                                    Whew. When someone embarks on the recipe jfood always hopes that the end is a great as when jfood enjoys those eye-closed smiles.

                                    Better to be tired than disappointed.

                                    Happy holidays.

                                    1. re: jfood

                                      Alright, I'm going to ask this once more - forcefully :) Do you think I can safely raise the temp of the simmer when reducing the much larger amounts of milk and wine?

                                      1. re: c oliver

                                        arf arf arf...mommy long as you watch faithfully, jfood would raise it slightly, but bringing the temperature up too high may hurt the milk more than the wine aspect.

                                        But jfood uses the 1/2C versus the 1C recipe as there are two in different Hazan books, so there is less in his than others.

                                        1. re: jfood

                                          Good thought re just raising the temp on the wine part. Just back from a blizzard-delayed Christmas dinner with MIL so will probably make tonight. Mmm and woof.

                            2. re: c oliver

                              jfood and walker, thanks for the "math" suggestions. I was on the track by reducing the milk and wine somewhat but it could be less next time. This is my first time making this and what I've sampled from the pot I know I'm going to love it. And the arugula that was earmarked for tomorrow at MIL's is going to be part of our dinner tonight. I may need a 12-step problem over that salad of MMR's.

                          2. I just made a decent veal bolognese in the pressure cooker. I roughly followed a recipe in Miss Vicky's PC book, but also inspired by the Splendid Table one that was discussed in another thread.

                            - saute several slices of salt pork
                            - add diced onion, stalk of celery, handfull small carrots
                            - herbs: crumbled thyme, rosemary, oregano, 1 bay leaf
                            - remove these from the pot, and light browned 1 1/2 lb ground veal
                            - return the vegies, add left over 'salsa brava' (Spanish spicy tomato sauce), 1c 2buck Merlot, 1/2 c leftover stock
                            - cook at pressure about 8 min, then slow cool
                            - result was about the right consistency, a thick soup
                            - fish out the bay leaf and salt pork; stir
                            (the PC does a good job of softening the diced vegetables)
                            - add a milk slurry (several tbls of whole dry milk to a 1/4c water), splash of cream
                            (this slurry added body to sauce without watering it down)
                            - adjust salt and pepper
                            - slow simmer while cooking the pasta

                            1. I made this Bolognese in a huge batch recently (thanks for the inspiration) using half pork and half beef and it was divine!!
                              I now want to try lasagna using some of the frozen batch.
                              I have a Marcato Atlas 150 pasta machine that has 9 thickness settings - any suggestion as to what thickness setting to use?

                              4 Replies
                                  1. re: jfood

                                    jfood, mine has 8; what does yours have? When you talk about penultimate, now I wonder if all next-to-last are the same. I've finally gotten all I need for the goat cheese ravioli. Maybe tomorrow. Today I'm making 12# of sausage since Costco had 16# boneless pork shoulder roasts for $1.49/#.

                                    1. re: c oliver

                                      Atlas brand and 6 settings and i bring the pasta to #5