58070 Thu Jan 22 16:24:51 -0800 2004 19 2 Los Angeles Area 0 303770 I know Musso's is a venerable institution, so I'm prepared to take a licking for this. After another visit last night, I have concluded that I really don't understand this place. Most of the non-steak food I have had there is hands down terrible, especially anything seafood oriented. The steaks themselves are acceptable, but are incredibly overpriced ($31 for a tiny filet mignon and a golfball-sized scoop of mashers), and get an F- for presentation (looks like hospital food). Service is all over the map, and is usually somewhat brusque---that is, if the waiter understands your order in the first place. But herein lies the mystery---why do I keep going back? Sure, the martinis are among the best (and strongest---Holy Cow!) in town, and the place has all that Old LA charm and kitsch value. But that alone does not justify going to this place, and yet I continue to go. Not only that, but aside from consistently being unsatisfied with what I eat there, I always seem to have a good time. I mysteriously leave happy, although somewhat hungry (and poor). Does anyone else feel this particular strange voodoo? Apologies to all M&F loyalists. Thu Jan 22 16:24:51 -0800 2004 0 Eric Archer 1 303774 Considering Musso & Frank is a grill (as indicated by the big neon sign)it is even stranger that anyone would order anything beyond grilled meat items. That being said, their NY steaks and porterhouses are fantastic, and the hearts of romaine salad and bernaise are top notch. Thu Jan 22 17:06:37 -0800 2004 303770 0 Ernie 2 303777 Diplomat pudding Pounded steak with country gravy (even w/o the steak!) .and I love the fact that they label the apraragus as "canned." Thu Jan 22 17:10:25 -0800 2004 303774 0 TE 3 304376 Ah, yes, but Musso's uses only the finest in canned vegetables! It's part of the charm, and I guess knowing what to eat. Woe to the unsuspecting tourist! One of the things to remember is that they are running pretty much the same menu as when they started in 1919 (!) and if one was to walk in circa say 1954, you'd probably receive the same quality of food and presentation that you get now. Except 50 years later what we accept as food quality standards have changed, and Musso's hasn't. That said, it's still one of my favorite places, but I like to eat mid-day breakfast there on Saturdays. Eggs Benedict, hash browns, creamed spinach, flannel cakes and a pot of hot coffee to sober up from their great Bloody Mary's. I was there about 3 months ago on one such morning, and four of us started at 12 noon and ate and drank our way till 7pm, where we were graciously asked to move to the bar because they needed the table for dinner service. What other place in town can you hang out like that? Tue Jan 27 17:16:19 -0800 2004 303777 0 monkeymay 3 304378 Ah, yes, but Musso's uses only the finest in canned vegetables! It's part of the charm, and I guess knowing what to eat. Woe to the unsuspecting tourist! One of the things to remember is that they are running pretty much the same menu as when they started in 1919 (!) and if one was to walk in circa say 1954, you'd probably receive the same quality of food and presentation that you get now. Except 50 years later what we accept as food quality standards have changed, and Musso's hasn't. That said, it's still one of my favorite places, but I like to eat mid-day breakfast there on Saturdays. Eggs Benedict, hash browns, creamed spinach, flannel cakes and a pot of hot coffee to sober up from their great Bloody Mary's. I was there about 3 months ago on one such morning, and four of us started at 12 noon and ate and drank our way till 7pm, where we were graciously asked to move to the bar because they needed the table for dinner service. What other place in town can you hang out like that? Tue Jan 27 17:20:03 -0800 2004 303777 0 monkeymay 2 303780 I appreciate your logic, but would be very remiss if I ordered nothing but grilled meats at The Water Grill. But as you point out, if you stick with the meats, I'm sure you're much better off at Musso's. But why even bother to offer inferior seafood/pastas/etc.? Thu Jan 22 17:18:48 -0800 2004 303774 0 Eric Archer 2 303782 > Huh?? So putting "grill" on the sign excuses them for serving frozen seafood and canned vegatables at astronomical prices?? What about Water "Grill"? And everyone is supposed to automatically know the small percentage of things on the menu that they actually do well?? I agree with the original poster, M & F is way overpriced and overrated. I went once and have no desire to go back. Thu Jan 22 17:28:27 -0800 2004 303774 0 markn 3 303785 Well, my rule of thumb on any first visit to an unfamiliar restaurant is to ask an experienced server what they do best. The cool cat was very honest about the seafood being frozen which I greatly appreciated since was tempted to try. And passing by that wonderful old grill by the counter in the Old Room was enough to convince me with those seductive sizzling sounds! Thu Jan 22 17:34:39 -0800 2004 303782 0 Ernie 1 303781 No apologies necessary from this loyalist. I like their food much better than you (I love the pork chops, the filet, the Ceasar - actually, I love most of the salads) but I also would never order anything other than salads or a grilled item... EXCEPT, of course, the Chicken Pot Pie on Thursdays, also delicious. I dunno, there is just something wonderful about the place. Perhaps it is that feel of 20's or 40's LA it just exudes; I know for a Los Angeles freak like me, who would love to have been able to experience certain eras of this amazing town, places such as Musso's and Taylor's and Philippe's and Clifton's give me a sense of what used to be, whether real or imagined. It just says ‘Old LA’ to me: Raymond Chandler, Bette Davis, Fatty Arbuckle… Thu Jan 22 17:19:06 -0800 2004 303770 0 Tom P 1 303784 "I feel mysteriously happy..." Could it have anything to do with the...martinis??? I too have fallen under its spell in spite of all the shortcomings you mention. For me I think it's because the hubby and I always sit at the counter and have the best time talking with the characters there. It's a free-for-all and very fun and hard to find in LA (except for maybe the charcuterie and wine bars at AOC). Maybe it's the feeling of conviviality throughout? Thu Jan 22 17:32:23 -0800 2004 303770 0 Aileen 2 303786 "Could it have anything to do with the...martinis???" That may be it! *...erp....* "Maybe it's the feeling of conviviality throughout?" All joking aside, I think you've nailed it. I guess the bottom line is I know I will find myself there again in the future, enjoying myself despite my grumblings. Perhaps I should try some of the items other posters have mentioned (pot pie and pork chop, especially). I'll pass on the canned asparague, though... Thu Jan 22 17:39:00 -0800 2004 303784 0 Eric Archer 1 303791 "Sure, the martinis are among the best (and strongest---Holy Cow!)" Just a question regarding martini strength. Are they using higher proof gin, (if you are a purest) or vodka, (if not)? Or are they using more gin or vodka and less vermouth? Or? Is that why you say they are stongest? I am not sure I understand that part of your post. All clarification very much appreciated. Thu Jan 22 17:47:46 -0800 2004 303770 0 WLA 2 304092 Y'know.......it does seem weird that one martini would be stronger than another, but the experience my wife and I had at M&F would bear that out. We went for lunch and we were the first people in the place that day. The food was pretty ok, not unforgettable but not bad (my wife disagrees though, she thought it was VERY forgettable), and I like the old-guy atmosphere that permeates the place. If LA didn't actually have a place like this someone would have to invent it. Anyway back to the martinis. They were served in the old-timey smaller glasses, and went down smooth as greased velvet. Ten minutes later we were wondering why the table felt like a cushion and our lunch was dancing. We've had plenty of martinis before, but these were, bar none, the absolute best we've ever knocked back. Formosa Café runs a close second. Sun Jan 25 18:12:18 -0800 2004 303791 0 Andy-KC 1 303798 DAD (looking at his cigarette) Goddamn. Will somebody please tell me why I smoke these damn things? VERONICA (smiling) Because you're an idiot. DAD Oh yeah, that's it. DAD immediately takes another drag with a wide grin. - Heathers (Daniel Waters) Sorry, Eric. Couldn't resist. Thu Jan 22 18:09:06 -0800 2004 303770 0 Wiry Michael Moore 1 303815 This reminds me of a great Galley I once read about that "El Cholo" feeling one gets at the LA classic El Cholo restaurant on Western. The characters eat cheap Mexican food and drink Margaritas and all of a sudden they are dreamy eyed and filled with that magical "El Cholo" feeling that keeps them going back. I loved and related to that story. Musso and Franks reminds me of feeling very special when I was a child, because my Dad took me to dinner at this all important Hollywood restaurant. It's just that feeling I guess. Thu Jan 22 19:39:49 -0800 2004 303770 0 tctc 2 303816 Exactly. It is so strong, yet so intangible. Nice call on El Cholo. Pretty sub-par food, but the exact same thing happens to me there, as well. Almost worth it for "that" feeling alone... Thu Jan 22 19:46:18 -0800 2004 303815 0 Eric Archer 1 303817 For me its not a mystery. Musso's -- for all its faults -- is one of the few real L.A. institutions. After all, its been around since what, like 1919. My grandmother started going there in 1927, and started taking me in the 60's. Later, when I was "all grown up," I'd take her. When she got too old to go out much, I'd get take out and deliver it to her. For me, and many of us, the place has a lot of great memories -- first place I ever had calves brains. For all of us, even the newcomers to L.A., its a rare chance to visit pretty much the same reastaurant in the same location with many of the same menu items you could have visited in the Woodrow Wilson administration. Thu Jan 22 19:59:39 -0800 2004 303770 0 PeteEats 1 303821 Again, as others have said, there's no reason to order just about anything other than the GRILL items. The price may be a couple of dollars too high for the food (e.g., they may be charging $25 for a $20 steak) but the premium is for the place itself, and to me (and many others) it's worth it. I wouldn't pay the same price for the exact same thing served in a nondescript stripmall coffees shop. As for presentation - what are they supposed to do with a steak & potato other than put it on the plate? On the potato issue...I've never had the mashed, so I have no comment on the serving size. I always get their thick-cut "fries," which have always been served in a plentiful quantity. They're kinda unique. Definitely my potato of choice there (or a baked potato if I'm in the mood for all the fixins). Finally, I for one really enjoy the service. What you might consider brusque I think may be "professional." In other words, the waiters don't introduce themselves or engage you in idle chit-chat (unless, of course, you're sitting at the counter and engage them in repartee). In my view, professional service is the kind you see everywhere in France (and NY, to an extent) where the server basically arrives at the right time, listens as you order, and delivers your food. Not a peep is necessary. Thu Jan 22 20:30:01 -0800 2004 303770 0 Jack Flash 1 303837 I couldn't agree with you more that it's a mystery. I long ago decided that this place is an anachronistic poor value and would never choose to go on my own. (See my post about Taix yesterday for a place with kitsch that is well worth going back to and maybe the only place in the City where you can get a $400 wine for $72.) But I do keep going back because visitors from New York, Chicago, and even Atlanta and Kansas City have heard about the place and insist on it - right after the movie star handprints at the Chinese Theater and their favorite star's star on Hollywood Bl. They also ask about the Brown Derby. Every time seems a little worse - smaller and more claustrophobic, diner quality food, high prices, joke wines, uncaring (ok, I agree it's efficient) service, and all-in-all nothing special. When there are so many truly great places within 5 miles. Thu Jan 22 23:12:48 -0800 2004 303770 0 Griller141 1 303852 Just to add my two cents: my wife and I, and our 17 year old daughter ate there last week. Ususally its just my wife and I at the counter; this time at a table. Yes, it looks run down, yes, its not fancy, yes, the presentation is not much, but like others here have noted: 1. the pork chops and caesar are great. We like the baked potato, as well. Most of the steaks are good, and usually cooked just the way we want them. And we like the au jus they pour on them. 2. my wife's cosmopolitan was great AND instead of a martini glass 3/4 full like some really expensive places in town, they brought a full glass (ok, a little one) and brought enough for another full glass in a little bottle. We thought that was great. We didn't notice that it was overly strong; it just tasted good. 3. I brought my own wine and the corkage was very reasonable-$7. 4. YES. I kid you not, as we were walking out, both my wife and I, out loud, commented that every time we eat there, we always leave happy and contented, something that OFTEN escapes us as we eat at overpriced, here today, gone tomorrow places on the west side. You know the ones; star of S.Irene V's column this week, or written up in the new LA mag. Even when the food is good, which does happen, there is an empty not quite satisfying feeling. For some reason, (I'll accept magic), we're happy little campers when we leave Musso's. Fri Jan 23 00:42:20 -0800 2004 303770 0 Bruin2