Vietnamese Menu Appraisal Help

[Jim Leff]

I found very good pho in Bridgeport CT (see this posting: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/579223

)

They gave me a sloppy, blurry, primitive take-out menu that for some reason I'm having trouble parsing. As I scan the english translation, nothing strikes me as particularly noteworthy, but the translation's so dumbfoundingly flat that I'm worried that I'm missing something.

Is there anyone out there more in practice with Vietnamese cuisine than I am (it's been ages, mostly because there's so little good Vietnamese food in NYC), or, even better, able to parse the Vietnamese transliterations, and who can offer input?

Ignore my attempt to upload the photo below, and see the full-size photo at http://jimleff.info/vietnamese-menu.jpg

[raytamsgv]

These are some pretty common dishes. Here is my (amateur) take on them:

#1: Looks like their house special beef noodle soup. It probably has everything in there: rare beef, cooked brisket, etc.
#2, 3, 5 These are noodle soups in a clear broth. The Hu Tieu noodles are flat, wider, rice noodles. The Mi noodles are thinner, egg-based noodles.
#4 Same as above except a beef stew broth is used.
#6 Bahn Mi is usually a baugette or french roll with a crispy crust. This is used for dipping in the beef stew (Bo Kho)
#7 See #2,3,5 but with seafood
#8 Vietnamese version of wonton soup--I wouldn't order this.
#12, 13 Stir fried flat rice noodles with seafood or your selection of meat.
#16 This is like an egg roll, but the skin is translucent and made of rice flour. It is chewy, not crispy. Inside are shrimp, slices of pork, lettuce, and thin rice noodles. A peanut sauce often accompanies this.
#17. This is deep fried like an egg roll. The skin is crispy. There should be pork, mung bean noodles, and other stuff iniside. This is typically served with cold lettuce leaves, thin rice noodles, and sweet pickled vegetables. You take a leaf, put on some rice noodles and pickled vegetables, and put a cha gio on it. You wrap it and dip it in your fish sauce (nuoc mum).

Is there any dish you are looking for in particular?

[Jim Leff]

Hi, raytamsgv, you've done a great job of describing the standards (and it's a helpful posting which hopefully vietnamese newbies will, in future, be refered back to). I'm pretty much up on all those things, my hope was that one of the more mind-blurringly prosaic-sounding dishes might actually be interesting lesser-known dishes poorly translated. I got some good leads, above, so I'm goin' in again....will let you know how it turns out!

[Ali]

#2 - This refers to a fairly specific dish that most Vietnamese people know, with Nam Vang being the Vietnamese term for Cambodia's Phnom Peng (sp?). The broth is a pork stock made with bones, salts, palm sugar, dried squid, dried shrimp, carrots, etc. The dish itself is the broth, pork tendons, shrimp, ground pork (that has been cooked in the broth), noodles, and the standard veggies/herb plate. It's a good dish (when done right), but that translation is more than a little boring.

#3 - Even though the translation has the word "or" in it, order with both the clear noodles and egg noodles (as the name references, the dish is properly served with both). If desired, you can get it "dried," in which case you'll be served the noodles with all the toppings and a bowl of broth on the side - this is an option of most of the noodle dishes, though.

#9 - I probably would never order this in a restaurant - my mother's version is better; I've learned that restaurants rarely serve fish sauce mixed the way I want; and I generally just don't like Vietname spareribs. However, most people probably do like this, and really, the translation is just sloppy (though standard). The "shredded pork" (bi) refers to shredded pork (really, julienned, not shredded) and thinly sliced skin mixed with toasted rice powder - the additions of seasonings and deep fried garlic and onions are up to the cook. "Meat pie" (cha) is more of a steamed Vietnamese sausage of sorts, usually done with pork/chicken, spices, and fish sauce though any protein can be used - my personal prefernce is "cha ca chien" (the deep fried fish version).

#10 Duong Chau refers to a region, and "com chien duong chau" refers to a very specific, well-known dish of fried rice with garlic, shallots, eggs, chinese sausage, shrimp, veggies, the steamed sausage from above, chinese bbq pork, etc. It's really a very good dish when done right.

#18 - "Banh bao" is really just the Chinese steamed bun (hence the "bao" part, pronounced about the same way). That's not a dumpling, at least not the kind most people think of.

#21 - "Thit nuong" is roasted pork with scallons. It's really good (again, when done right), but it's one of those things where the name is just not a whole lot interesting.

If I were ordering, I'd probably get the #15 + #17. I can count on one hand the amount of times I've had a truly great version of the #15 (more than half those times being home made by relatives), but I remain eternally hopeful. As for #17, well, I've never met an egg roll I hate ... except for this one time in Houston (or maybe that was Dallas ...) at a restaurant named Pho Pasteur ... blegh!

[Jim Leff]

Ali, awesome, thanks. I knew there was more here than met the eye. One thing:

------------
Duong Chau refers to a region, and "com chien duong chau" refers to a very specific, well-known dish of fried rice with garlic, shallots, eggs, chinese sausage, shrimp, veggies, the steamed sausage from above, chinese bbq pork, etc. It's really a very good dish when done right.
------------

is it likely they're from Duong Chau, then? Or is that a regional dish made by everyone (ala gumbo or clam chowder)? If they might be from Duong Chau, the next question is what are some great Duong Chau dishes I ought to specially order from them?

[d00n]

I'm pretty sure Duong Chau is just Vietnamese for Yangzhou, which is why it's translated as Young Chow Fried Rice).

Anyway, it's a pretty popular dish all over the place. Same thing with bun bo Hue. It's a popular dish where the name still records its origin. The best bun bo Hue in Vietnam isn't even in Hue anymore, so my relatives tell me. :)

[Ali]

Indeed, Duong Chau = Yangzhou, which explains the addition of things like the chinese sausage and bbq pork. I am not, however, certain whether the dish is simply named after the region or actually originated there - either is reasonable.

As for "bun bo Hue," as I understand it, the best version hasn't come from Hue in years. But then, as I understand it, most people think their mother makes the best version anyway. But at least the best versions of the traditional royal dishes are still found in Hue, right? That's got to mean more than the "bun bo Hue" thing. :)

[Dr.Faustus]

Go to Pho Na Trang on Baxter. I've been eating there for about 20 years and it's great!

[Jim Leff]

You sure 20 years? I remember when Pho Pasteur was the only Vietnamese place on that block, and that was a little less than 20 years ago I think.

But it definitely has been there for a while, and I respectfully disagree about its continued greatness. All the Vietnamese places thereabouts (including thai son) taste real tired and careless to me. Pho Pasteur was great in its day....but that was 20 years ago.

[Jen76]

If I were going to order off that menu, I'd get #12 and #22-iced. Yum!

[d00n]

Not sure what you're really asking for: a (better) description of the menu items or suggestions on foods to try?

All those dishes are pretty typical of Vietnamese restaurants, plus the Vietnamese-Chinese stuff.

Well, if it's the latter you were asking for, I am a fan of the beef stew (bo kho), which you can get with bread (banh mi) or rice noodles (hu tieu) or egg noodles (mi) from that menu.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12284112@N06/1350109604/

Or bun bo Hue. Delicious beef and pork with noodles in a spicy sauce... and don't forget the congealed pig blood~

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32338656...

[Jim Leff]

Yeah, d00n, I was pretty much figuring it was the usual stuff. But I've read stultifyingly flat menus like that in the past and missed little gems of interest. Thought the Hive Mind might suss something out. E.g. I was hoping "stir fried combination with steamed rice" might actually be something unprosaic...

Menu's not complete...I do know they do curry. Maybe I'll just keep working through everything NOT on the menu....

[davmar77]

i can't help reading the menu but i can help with a great place in nyc; thai son on baxter st off canal st.we just love it.i heard they have a sister location in brooklyn that's even better although i don't recall the name.

[ccbweb]

Can't really help much, I'm afraid, but I can help with the link and then I can follow the discussion easily:
http://www.jimleff.info/vietnamese-me...