574740 Sun Nov 23 20:55:27 -0800 2008 472 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 4197048 I've read some brogs on sushi in here and noticed that some of you have wrong knowledge or info about sushi. I've been making sushi over 30 yrs in LA and more in Japan before. I'm here to point out few and give you guys the right info. 1. WARM RICE; It seems to me it's a trend in LA that good sushi must accompny with warm rice. This is false. Rice should be room temparature so that it doesn't over power each fishes delicate flavor not mention it may warm temparature of chilled fish. 2.OMAKASE; Omakase in Japan means chef's choice of meal suitable for his long time regular customer not the chef's choice of best or unique items of the day. If you are long time customer of that chef, he will know what you like, how much you can eat and most importnatly how much you can spend usually. It doesn't mean pre fix meal nor sky is the limit rip off meal. You have to eat his food at least more than few times in order to ask him omakase. I have fuuny story you may like about this but save it for next time. I know history about sushi, manners not mention how to make good sushi etc. You can ask me any questions you have about sushi or you can challange me about sushi knowledge. I know I can answer most of the q's. Over all I'm here to help you guys educate and have fun with you sushi fins. Here is the sushi fyi; Modern style sushi was founded about 350 yrs ago in Edo [ Tokyo now] by Mr Kobei. He was a drop out chef and he only knew how to fillet fish and make rice at the drop out point. So he created the sushi to sell at his food stand to make living. At that time soy sauce was in the community bowl on the counter. Yak!! ha ha. He broke down common meal style[ Sashimi plate and bowl of rice] in to bite size snack.[ Like Taco stand--Smart ha?] Waiting for your response. Let's have fun!! Sun Nov 23 20:55:27 -0800 2008 242861 bigtuna27 1 4197065 What's your opinion on Yama Sushi on the Lake in Mission Viejo? Sun Nov 23 21:03:05 -0800 2008 4197048 10883 JAB 2 4197146 Hi You Are the 1st one. Well unfotunately I never eaten any place in Mission Viejo. The girl I had crush on 28 yrs ago was from there though. That's the closest I can relate to Mission Viejo. Struck out Sorry. Sun Nov 23 21:54:56 -0800 2008 4197065 242861 bigtuna27 1 4197103 Do the sushi chefs get angry if you put ginger on your sushi or mix wasabi onto your soy sauce or rub your chopsticks together? These are all things I have heard are offensive. I look forward to your thoughts. Sun Nov 23 21:25:05 -0800 2008 4197048 103226 PinotPlease 2 4197167 Wasabi and ginger for the same reason. To him or any chef trained good in Japan feels that you are destroying the sesnsitive flavor of fish he is proud to serve you. That's the reason he ggets angry. He thinks you disrespect his work. It's just different view towards food we have here and in Japan. It's similar thing that in europe ,they don't have salt and pepper on the table. Get it? Sushi already has decent amount of wasabi in it. You can only mix wasabi in to soy sauce when you have sashimi. Sashimi doesn't have wasabi in it right? But some part sushi chef is wrong. Why sushi is always srved in 2 pieces? You eat first one the way it is only with soy sauce. 2nd piece you are able to adjust to your liking. If the chef still get angly after that, he got ego problem. Chop stics case; It just bad manner. But you have to in order to avoid small wood piaces stuck in your mouth right? You do it under the counter so that nobody sees that. You have to hide the action to avoid pieces of your chop sticks ends up on other's food. Ok? Sun Nov 23 22:11:07 -0800 2008 4197103 242861 bigtuna27 1 4197204 Hi bigtuna, It was kind of you to offer to answer questions. I have some for you. What affordable (I'm a student at UCLA) sushi restaurants do you feel offer the freshest, best quality fish? Also, I've recently gotten into making my own sushi at home and was wondering if you knew of a place I could buy shiso (japanese mint)? I love it with scallop sushi but haven't been able to find it in any regular markets. Any other tips you might want to share would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Sun Nov 23 22:57:04 -0800 2008 4197048 87889 shoegal 2 4197945 Hi. Shoegal Closest place for you to buy Shiso is probably "Nijiya Market". It's on Sawtell blvd right before Olympic blvd east side in the 3 story biz building . 1st floor. They open untill 11pm I think. About sushi restaurant; They are all some how pricy ,if the quality is good. I don't know your budget so best bet is to hit the happy hour. And settle with california roll or spicytuna. Try Chaya Venice's Happy hour It's pretty good and You can meet the good looking boys and girls too .ha ha. Mon Nov 24 09:04:49 -0800 2008 4197204 242861 bigtuna27 3 4206129 Shoegal, I don't know how much room you have but shiso is very easy to grow at home. Just be sure to grow in a container as it's very prolific. It's good in a lot of things. Thu Nov 27 20:08:04 -0800 2008 4197945 95291 Richard 16 4 4208131 Good dea. I forgot mention. If you grow in the yard ,it'll grow big. If you want to do it in container pick a large and deep one. 10" and up. if you want to have soft leaves like you get in the market, you have to make it like hot house so that it can avoid wind. Wind make the leaves get harder. There are red shiso too. Don't put green kind close to red kind or colored Basil.The color of the leaves turn to red. Shiso is a Basil family. You can buy baby plant at nursely near by around spring time. When they blossom pinch flowers. Other wise it'll die soon. Good luck Sat Nov 29 09:39:52 -0800 2008 4206129 242861 bigtuna27 5 4219217 Thanks! That's a wonderful idea... I will definitely check out my local nursery. I love Shiso, so I am very excited to grow it. Would you know what the plant is called? Is just called a shiso plant? Wed Dec 03 20:52:42 -0800 2008 4208131 87889 shoegal 6 4219319 Green shiso the one you like. There is red shiso too. little different flavor. I like to smell red shiso but like to eat green one. Good luck. Wed Dec 03 22:03:39 -0800 2008 4219217 242861 bigtuna27 6 4219448 There are several kinds - green and red (more purple in color, actually) being the biggest distinction. It's also called beefsteak leaf, but more commonly Perilla. The flower buds and seeds are used as well, but I never have. One type of red is used in making umeboshi plums. Korean perilla (kkaennip) generally has larger leaves; green on top with a reddish "blush" underneath. The bigger leaves of any type are tougher; chiffonade them They make great tempura, and lend great flavor to Kim Chee. Thu Dec 04 01:10:46 -0800 2008 4219217 95291 Richard 16 7 4872636 hmmmm shiso.... is that the herb i can't identify in my vietnamese summer rolls? Or is it mainly a japanese ingredient? On a side note... if it's not shiso, can anyone tell me what it is???? It has a bit of a bite, and looks like a dark lettuce (i think, it's shredded). It has perplexed me for months!!! Sun Jul 19 18:25:24 -0700 2009 4219448 264146 kubasd 1 4198885 I have a few questions: 1. Sometimes I see big tip jars on sushi bars and sometimes I see patrons tipping sushi chefs outright. Is this required? Do sushi chefs get part of tip from my bill? 2. When is it OK to offer sushi chefs a drink? Thanks Mon Nov 24 14:32:24 -0800 2008 4197048 75181 citizenx 2 4199366 Hi. Q #1 No It's not required to tip sushi man outright. It depends on the system each restaurant have.Tthey'll usually share tips at the end of night with wait personal. Some customer appriciated the food and service that sushi man gave so sometime they tip extra directry to the chef beside the tip they left on the tab. The tip jar probably for that perpose. Direct tip usually shared among sushi man only.Q#2 Just ask them. There are no right time set. If you do biggining of the dinner, they'll probably love you more and you may get freebee. If you don't want them to think you are expecting freebee, at the end or middle of the dinner may be better idea. In japan most of the places prohibit sushi man to take drinks from customer because it may affect thier performance. You know some of them can't hundle drinks well. Not me though. ha ha Mon Nov 24 17:36:50 -0800 2008 4198885 242861 bigtuna27 3 4215423 Ok, Mr. Sushi Man. What happens if you sit at the bar and there's no tip jar? How do you tip in that situation? Do you give it to the waitress and say it's for the chefs? Do you just leave it at the bar? Or does it mean that tipping is not expected? And if you do tip the sushi chef, how much do you tip? Is it 10% of the bill? A flat tip? Tue Dec 02 14:20:13 -0800 2008 4199366 10763 Miss Needle 4 4216464 Some place thinks it's not polite to have tip jar on the bar.I'm one of them. Just hand it directly to sushi chef and tell him it's for him only. They like extra tips of cause. you probably tip on the bill 15~20 % already so amount is up to you. i had few customer said waiteress was hollable but I was good. So they tip few backs for them and gave me a lot and said not to share with waitress. It's all up to you how you do it. You wanna come back and get even better service from him? Then tip him good. Tue Dec 02 21:39:27 -0800 2008 4215423 242861 bigtuna27 5 4216503 Bigtuna-san, how do we leave tip for itamae when we pay with credit card? One time, there were four of us for sushi. We sat at counter, had two large beers and had lots of good sushi (especially aoyagi/live orange clam). We figured $200-300 for bill; it was only $85 (we asked and waitress double checked with itamae), so we left $100 tip on credit card. Does the staff know it's for itamae? Of course, this was a nice, proper sushi-ya, so no tip jar. Do I need to put itamae tip in otoshidama envelope? haha Thank you. Tue Dec 02 22:29:27 -0800 2008 4216464 12873 OCAnn 6 4216572 If it's true,you got a hec of a deal. Probably they shared with all of them. Come to my restaurant. ha ha. Tue Dec 02 23:30:24 -0800 2008 4216503 242861 bigtuna27 1 4199391 Seriously? Mr. Hanaya Yohei started nigiri in Tokyo at a roadside stand post WWII. Before that sushi was fermented rice used to preserve fish and later vinegar was added as a preservative. The origins are much older than 350 years. Sushi rice is warmed to body temperature, unless you like your room really hot. Not sure what this post is about, but it ain't correct. Mon Nov 24 17:47:41 -0800 2008 4197048 13554 cls 2 4199864 hi. may be Mr hanaya did have sushi stand but he is not the first one. likei said over 350 yrs ago the original modern style sushi[ which pretty close to what we eat here now] was founded by Mr kobei in Edo[ now in Tokyo. I said modern style sushi. Very origine of sushi was like you said using rice toferment the fish so that they can bring them to inland or mountain side for the good protain sauce for the people there. But then it wasn't called sushi. The old fashion style sushi had been there longer. It was originated in grater Osaka area. We still have those style now . It's called Hako sushi[ Boxed sushi or pressed style sushi] I guess people didn't waist the rice so ated before furmentation begins. You know pretty good about sushi but not enough. I welcome challange. Keep it coming let's have fun. By the way furmentation style you are talking about was originated in other country. Can you name that? Mon Nov 24 21:20:07 -0800 2008 4199391 242861 bigtuna27 3 4199936 Yes, fish preservation came from China but it was practiced in many parts of South East Asia as well. It's interesting that you mention carrying fish inland. I just read an interesting article that said the difference between Kansai shoyu and Kanto shoyu is that Kansai shoyu is less strong because it was served with salt preserved fish in Kyoto (salt having been used to preserve it on the trip from ocean to the cty). And Kanto (Edo) shoyu was stronger because it was served directly with raw, fresh fish (more easily obtained from Edo Bay). Anyhow, it's worth noting that Hanaya Yohei died in 1858, in the Edo (Tokugawa) Era, ten years before the Meiji Restoration, having lived most of his life more than 100 years before WWII. I've never heard of Mr. Kobei, but I have heard of an early sushi restaurant, in the Edo Jidai, called Kobei. Can you post his name in Japanese so I can research him? Most of my research thus far points to Hanaya as the inventor of nigirizushi. ...Also, roadside sushi stands in Tokyo were banned after the war because of health/ sanitation concerns. Mon Nov 24 22:07:23 -0800 2008 4199864 10903 Silverjay 4 4200064 Ok. It's getting fun.1. Fish preservation became popular in sothern china but not originated. It was originated in North Vietnam. So as rice, soy sauce type sauce.We can buy Fish sauce in most of the market now. That is the original soy sauce type sauce. Chinese experiment with soy because it's basically furmented protein. Though miso was created by chinese in the prosess of making soy sauce.2. About soy sauce you are very wrong. Kansai soy sauce has less flavor but a lot more salt contents. Kanto soy sauce is stronger in flavor and color but not much salt contents compair to kansai soy sace. Reason; Kansai area was a lot more sophisticated than Kanto area then and long history of civilization [ about 2800 yrs] . Kanto area was barbalian land then. So the people in kansai area was classy enough to enjoy cooking and don't want over power thier food with storg sauce. This idea lead to need of less flavor but enough salt content soy sauce. It also helps the original color in appierance. I guess people in Kansai was Like peope in La or Ny and Kanto area people were like in very remote area so that they have to make it taste same with strong soy sauce or cover up strong fish flavor when you eat them raw specialy older one. ha ha By the way kansai style the original type. 3. Origin of sushi; I have to separate sushi to in few category. Hako sushi[ Pressed sushi popular in Kansai area] Nigiri sushi[ popular in everywhere else in the world[ like here] and Nare sushi[ fish preserv type very old style]. I'll talk about Nigiri sushi here ok? According to the book I have[ Sushi text book for pro] It was between 1818~1831 Mr Hanaya kobei made it succesful as sushi restaurantuor. He said in his biography ,there were few people before him but didn't make it big. I guess you read his name wrong. His restaurant was still there in Tokyo after Meiji era called RyogokuKoubei sushi. Are these helped you a bit? this was fun . keep it coming. Mon Nov 24 23:51:43 -0800 2008 4199936 242861 bigtuna27 5 4200555 Calm down, OK? There are many resources on this subject besides your sushi book- some of them perhaps more recent. Here is the article that I read regarding differences between Kansai and Kanto shoyu and how it relates to eating fish--> http://kiifc.kikkoman.co.jp/foodculture/pdf_11/j_003_008.pdf . Mr. Yanagihara, the lecturer, is very well-known and appears as an expert on Japanese cuisine in the media. He also has a traditional restaurant in Ginza. Also, from what I've read, much of the Chinese experimentation with soy sauce involved the use of fermented animal meat- besides soy. Hanaya Yohei's name is usually transliterated in English as "~hei". Also, every time I've seen it rendered in Kana in Japanese, it also appears as "よへい". This includes the Japanese Wikipedia entry--> http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%8F%AF%E5%B1%8B%E4%B8%8E%E5%85%B5%E8%A1%9B . But I'm not a native speaker, so that second kanji in his name may be read as "~bei" I suppose. Since Mr. Hanaya had become as much a businessman as a chef, we can assume that self-promotion and legacy most likely colored his reflections on his own personal impact on the cuisine, so I wouldn't put much faith in his biography. Most serious study of the history of Japanese cuisine recognizes the concept of Tokyo (Edo) becoming a culinary capital during the Tokugawa Era and that the cuisine from this era is more or less the direct decendent of modern Japanese cooking. Kanto a barbarian area prior to Tokugawa? Sure. But at some time, everywhere and everyone was barbarian. Tue Nov 25 07:27:09 -0800 2008 4200064 10903 Silverjay 6 4201253 hi silverjay. You appier to be resucher of japanese cuisine. I'm very impressed. i do respect your knowledge very much but I started this to have fun helping regular sushi fins. I think we went too fur on technical issues. It was fun talking to you and you can educated me some. But i rather keep this in fun lebel. Over all I'm just a sushi man with more knowledge than average sushi man not a resercher.Sorry. Good luck on your reserch. Tue Nov 25 11:42:42 -0800 2008 4200555 242861 bigtuna27 5 4209071 "Nare sushi[ fish preserv type very old style]. " Not trying to go off topic but just curious. Does FunazushI (carp) and even the stinky kusaya fall into this category? Sat Nov 29 19:35:30 -0800 2008 4200064 12872 K K 6 4209777 Fumasishi yes. Kusaya is dried fish and most of the american can't even get near them. Sun Nov 30 09:53:27 -0800 2008 4209071 242861 bigtuna27 7 4210803 A lot of Japanese can't even stand kusaya, as it smells like someone took a dump on a plate. Sun Nov 30 20:20:29 -0800 2008 4209777 12872 K K 8 4211782 True. But taste good though ,if you can handle smell. I can't handle Dorian from S Asia. Mon Dec 01 10:04:34 -0800 2008 4210803 242861 bigtuna27 9 4219384 Since the original discussion centered around history, here's one of the better links that describe sushi history and a little section on Hanaya Yohei http://homepage3.nifty.com/maryy/eng/yohei.htm http://homepage3.nifty.com/maryy/eng/sushi_history.htm Wed Dec 03 23:12:54 -0800 2008 4211782 12872 K K 10 4220426 I've found that the English internet information on sushi can be pretty sketchy. But I've seen these pages before. I like the "Chronology, origin and genealogy" one though. One of the types listed under "izushi" is "kabura-zushi" which is regional specialty of the Kanazawa area. It's described as "Salted yellowtail (buri) fillets sandwiched between pickled turnip (kabu) slices, and pickled with a mixture of rice and rice malt." I'm actually going to be there in a few weeks and am looking forward to trying this interesting sounding delicacy. Photo: http://www.butta.co.jp/foods/p_kaburamain2.jpg Thu Dec 04 10:55:42 -0800 2008 4219384 10903 Silverjay 11 4220458 Those pages I think were written in Japanese by the Japanese webmaster first then had English pages made available. What you've listed is another fine shiny example where in a small country, there's so much amazing obscure local food probably within short distances (let alone prefectures or towns) that are so specialized and unique, they are obscure to the rest of the world, unless you are in the know, research about it, or have a local guide/help. And 5 to 10 minutes away from one location is another place that offers something unique and specialized. Taiwan is exactly like that too in terms of food culture. Thu Dec 04 11:05:12 -0800 2008 4220426 12872 K K 12 4220534 Yeah, and in Japan those things usually become the local tourist eki-bento. Thu Dec 04 11:33:47 -0800 2008 4220458 10903 Silverjay 13 4220625 hi. I'm so amsed that you guy's debotion for sushi. you guys probably know more than average Japanese even sushi chefs. Izushi is far from the sushi we eat now. Name came from usuing rice to farment or cure. It's more like pickled fish. The word sushi came from sour rice and turned it in vinegered rice later. you guys can teach at colledge I think. By the way you can make kobumaki with yellow tail. not very many chefs make them but s~~~o good. Thu Dec 04 12:08:20 -0800 2008 4220534 242861 bigtuna27 12 4220543 You sure do know a lot! =) That word for things (usually foods) that are known, specialized and unique to certain regions is meibutsu. Meibutsu always make excellent gifts. Thu Dec 04 11:36:05 -0800 2008 4220458 12873 OCAnn 13 4220738 In the history link, at the bottom for the most recent date, I like how starting year 2000, "big ass stupid name rolls" is categorized as Kawari-zushi that include California Rolls, etc.. " With 'unusual' sushi-dane toppings, diversifying into worldwide." Although WIKI says California roll was invented circa 1960s in ahem, Los Angeles. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_roll I should be ashamed of myself, even looking into crap like this. Thu Dec 04 12:48:36 -0800 2008 4220543 12872 K K 14 4220933 I think the chart is more about roughly the era or century, not the precise year of origin. Thu Dec 04 13:50:57 -0800 2008 4220738 10903 Silverjay 1 4200429 1. I read in some book umpteen years ago that it is not impolite at all to ask a question along the lines of "what is very fresh today?" I then read that this is considered an insult because a sushi chef should only serve what is very fresh. Which is it? 2. I normally ask the sushi chef to simply prepare two pieces of what he would consider the best nigiri of the day to start a meal. If either of them are noticeably not fresh. I pay up, and leave. Simple as that. There are sushi joints all over town. How would you judge a first time experience at a new sushi bar? 3. I've also read that most serious / traditional suhi eaters judge a sushi chef mostly by his/her tamago. True? Tue Nov 25 06:44:33 -0800 2008 4197048 111530 gordeaux 2 4201356 1.Why not .you are the one paying for. I don.t mind. But most of the chef will answer everything is fresh. Fish doesn.t last long time and you can not buy every fish everyday. Since It's a business they will serv within a few days though. If the sushi chef takes it insult, he is old fashion. You could ask what is good today to avoid the conflict.2. Your way is good but every place has few good fish at least. then you can't judge them. I would ask Mackerel first. if you don't like it ask any item look good in the sushi case. Freshness of fish is some how similar in most of the good sushi place. Here you have to judge their rice. How they cook,season and form the rice ball.3. True and very popular theory among the people pretend to be grumet sushi fin. Who cares you want to pay for $3~4 for couple piece of sugar and colestrol? ha ha Tue Nov 25 12:15:25 -0800 2008 4200429 242861 bigtuna27 1 4200566 1) Since you are considered a very rare breed of classically trained sushi chef (and I tip my hat off to you), how do you feel about this Los Angeles style of sushi standardization, as exactly what you say, warm rice, and omakase = set menu like in French restaurant where more or less everyone get the same thing? Also what are your thoughts on "sushi nazi" (ganko oyaji) type of people who treat some customers bad like Nozawa in Studio City, Sasabune, and many spinoffs like it. who claim to say "no stupid name rolls, but I will serve you a blue crab salad handroll at the end"? Is the customer always right, sometimes right? 2) Who was the first person to recommend eating nigiri to dip fish side down in soy sauce and eat the nigiri either fish side down or fish side to the side? And who was the first to double dip in the community soy sauce bowl and got his ass kicked? Haha. 3) What are your thoughts on sushi chefs like Ono Jiro at Sukibashi Jiro in Tokyo, who seems to have been doing "omakase" (his way) for quite some time? How about Masayoshi Takayama or his apprentice Hiro Urasawa? Or Katsu-san who isn't as famous apparently but has years and years of experience? 4) What are your thoughts on pre-saucing nigiri, so customers should not be using excessive soy sauce? Is this style traditional as some say? Some of these Los Angeles type places claim to season their own soy sauce, some might use more shoyu to make a thicker nikiri, others might use a bottled type of ponzu and drown their fish, and I've seen one sushi-ya in my area use a lighter konbu dashi that is just about right for shiromi and some hikarimono (mirin, sake, konbu, a little bit of shoyu). 5) What do you think is the ideal number of molding steps for nigiri? I've seen sushi chefs in America do 3, mostly 5, and to an extreme I've seen a chef turn, rotate, press in total upwards of 15 steps (yes an overkill, I wish I took a video) because he didn't start off his fish slicing correctly. What is the history behind proper nigiri molding technique and who came up with 3 step, 5 step, and even 1 handed molding? 6) Is it really true that you should not have anago and umeboshi in the same meal? David Lowry in his sushi book wrote this piece of folklore which never got answered. 7) What was the LA sushi scene like 30 years ago? What kind of neta was common and what was extremely hard to get (considering back then there were probably much fewer distribution methods to get fish from Japan)? What was easy to find and use as neta then, but now considered very hard to get or not popular anymore, and vice versa? Tue Nov 25 07:34:49 -0800 2008 4197048 12872 K K 2 4201649 Thank you for your hat off. But You do have alots of qs. Ok Let's start. 1.i don't like those style. Although thier sushi is very good. It is easier for them to deal with customer but make me feel they are looking down on customer. Over all it just the style they choose to be different. Those style existed in japan before and still is in some place but getting a lot less. I have a funny story about why mr nosawa choosed to do that but I'll skip. I don't want to be sued.2. I don't know who but commomn sence in Japan to avoid mess and enjoy the flavor. I certenly don't know the person who double dipped first. But I'm sure his ass was kicked hard. 3. All of them are grate chefs. Again they just choosed to do it for many reasons. Katsu san was grate pioneer in La. All the sushi related people and biz owe him big time for succes of sushi biz in La in some point 4. I like it. I do it some time when I found the customer I have may appriciate. But it's your money you can dip it in as much as you want. I have been making my own soy dipping sauce since around 1980 for customer's use. I believe I was the first one to do that in LA. About your local sushi-ya; Keep him He is realy into serve the best he can. I want to know the name . I want to go there. 5. My opinion is less time your finger touches better. No matter how clean thier fingers are, they still somebodyelse's finger. I do it in 3 steps. 6.That was common idea in Japan. But not anago. it is Unagi. Because Unagi is very rich and umeboshi is very assety they might cause stomack problem later. We call it Jigokuae[ Hell combo] 7. I had futomaki with carrot,ceroli scrambled egg and cucumber once. I spitted out. Giant clam was the neta changed a lot. It was one of the cheapest neta then and one of most expensive now. chinese and japanese ate them all ha ha. Oh by the way most of the chefs trained in Japan[ Ok 99% of them then] had an attitude similar to Mr Nosawa and others you mention It only because they simply can't speak english well so that didn't understand Americans. They are ok to serve only Japanese client to make living. I know in very famous place then , American customer with Japanese as his Vip biz client asked Calif roll and Chef threw tea mag at him and yeild him to get out. I wonder what happened about their biz relations afterwards. Did I do ok here? see ya Tue Nov 25 14:05:29 -0800 2008 4200566 242861 bigtuna27 3 4201721 Since you said "neta" instead of "tane", does that mean you're from Kansai? Tue Nov 25 14:35:34 -0800 2008 4201649 12873 OCAnn 3 4202613 Thanks for enlightening the discussion for all of us! I love this thread. Some more questions if I may: a) In what way do you feel Katsu-san was a pioneer, at least for the Los Angeles sushi scene? Was he the first successful traditional nigiri sushi chef to be accepted by the masses? Just a disclaimer, I know nothing about Katsu-san other than the few reviews people on chowhound have written about him, which suggest that he has been around a long long time (perhaps the Ono Jiro of LA but different). The place I go to that makes their own konbu dashi shoyu is Sakae Sushi in Burlingame, in Northern California. They have also done a great medai no konbu jime, but very rarely offer it. Relatively easy to do, but no idea why it is not done more. b) New wave of sushi restaurants seem to enjoy using the blowtorch to ABURI literally anything. First with toro, then shiromi, then salmon and scallops. Then of course those big ass stupid name uramaki with spicy mayo on top of California. How do you feel about "aburi"? It works for me on shirako and uni, even though it is a bit strange to do so, can't say the same for others. c) What are your thoughts on using aburi wagyu as sushi neta (or tane), seems to be the in-thing to do now (wagyu from Kagoshima for example or Miyazaki), or yuzu and sudachi (speaking of which when did yuzu and sudachi become condiments for sushi at least in Los Angeles?). d) Your comments please on California rice vs Japanese type premium rice for sushimeshi/sumeshi. Advantages/disadvantages? Tue Nov 25 21:18:09 -0800 2008 4201649 12872 K K 4 4203186 Aburi (炙り) has been pretty common in Japan at least, for a while. Especially for maguro toro, salmon toro, and kinmedai. Also, you can sometimes get aburi pork oshi-zushi. (Goes nicely with beer!) And I see sudachi and yuzu in Japan often too with certain items. Wed Nov 26 07:10:35 -0800 2008 4202613 10903 Silverjay 5 4204078 You're right about "for a while", assuming that katsuo tattaki (the prep itself which is salt rub, then seared over an open flame) qualifies to be "aburi", which in a way it is. And one has to "aburi" the nori sheets loosely speaking to make them crispy. I guess there's that kind, vs the searing of spicy mayo and flying fish eggs over big ass stupid name rolls. Wed Nov 26 13:08:50 -0800 2008 4203186 12872 K K 6 4204442 You hate half ass sushi don't you. You know a lot. I'm glad that over 30 yrs of sushi history here finally amrican gets this lebel. My kind a guy. I'm afraid I may make mistake when I serve you if it happend. Wed Nov 26 16:06:30 -0800 2008 4204078 242861 bigtuna27 7 4205011 I have to admit that I still don't know a lot but the subject matter fascinates me enough from 10 years ago to do my own research, ask questions, and of course whatever I can get my hands and eyes on, and of course as cgfan said below, the Japanese TV series from early/mid 90s, Shota No Sushi, that while had a lot of silly melodrama, the content was supremely educational. My dad once said that if you pick up a hobby or interest, go all the way and excel at it, then you will find more than just enjoyment, but a passion. For food it is always interesting to learn how it is made and the stories behind them. It is also fun to joke about monster size uramaki. Honestly I don't hate it, as sometimes I eat a few with non nigiri munching friends to social, but wouldn't go out of my way just to have one (unless the restaurant screws up nigiri, then I move to the next thing). You are too kind, O-Maguro-san, I'd still be learning much if I ate what you prepared me. And I love stories of all sorts. Hope you share with us your funny stories about ordering omakase, and maybe someday, your theories as to why Nozawa-san went the way of Darth Vader. Wed Nov 26 21:40:35 -0800 2008 4204442 12872 K K 4 4203688 Hi Kk a) Katsu san was very skilled chef but not only that he tried to made decore of his restaurant or small detail things even back ground music to suitable to american people when everybodyelse was doing cheesy cheap so called japanese decore. He hired american waitress etc. It was eye opening for the rest of us. Imagine the modern sushi bar we have now in 25 yrs ago? He made it succesful so that opened eye for us. I've making those infused soy sauce since1980. It taste good. Kobujime in anykind taste good but doesn't sell well because people are scared to try and think sushi must be fresh fish only.b)Aburi has been popular in Japan recently. New wave sushi chefs didn't create those on thier own. They just copied as usual as Japanese. They don't create things. But it catches tennsion from customer. It sells. I don't like those rolls but if customer wants, why not. It's a biz.c) Wagyu is very hard to get. Are you talking about american kobe? I like the taste. But it is heavy so that customer may skip couple orders later. Yuzu and sudachi was available since 30yrs ago. Only japanese veg suppliar could get them for you then, I myself was grawing yuzu tree before.d) Premium rice taste sweeter and less stinky flavor. But to use in sushi california medium or higher grade do the job fine. Unless you are told before you have bite ,you won't notice. And you probably paying more for that. You can use that as sales pitch for the restaurant in order to cater to the people like you. did I answer everything ? see ya Wed Nov 26 10:29:56 -0800 2008 4202613 242861 bigtuna27 5 4204018 Sexcellent discussion. This is great stuff, thanks! So O-Maguro27-san: i) Have you tried mixing California rice with Japanese rice together for su-meshi? I remember seeing Masaharu Morimoto do that in Iron Chef TV episode Battle Sushi, it was about 50% mix. Can't remember offhand which one was shinmai and komai but the episodes are all on youtube. American style Kobe or Kobe style is common, but there are some places that can import Wagyu from Miyazaki and Kagoshima, very expensive of course. Then there are other ways to get the premium stuff that Masa/Urasawa serve that we plebs cannot get easy access to. ii) It sounds like Katsu-san paved the way for a lot of people to come in terms of re-inventing the sushi bar for Americansf from a high level. But I was curious whether he adopted any specific techniques in neta preparation, knife work, nigiri making or processes and methods that was also a first for Los Angeles sushi scene? iii) Why is kanpyo maki the only hosomaki that is served yotsu-giri (4 piece cut) typically? I've been to sushi bars where Japanese customers, if they order negi-toro hosomaki (for example) they get yotsu giri without asking the chef, but if a non Japanese customer orders it, they get 6 piece cut instead (unless for example I specify that to them). Wed Nov 26 12:38:32 -0800 2008 4203688 12872 K K 6 4204028 Good California and Good Japanese rice are the same. Wed Nov 26 12:45:00 -0800 2008 4204018 36661 Sam Fujisaka 6 4204082 KK: You asked a question regarding the special case of the kampyo-maki as being cut into 4 pieces whereas other hoso-maki are cut into 6 pieces. I just posted my recent experiences trying out both in this thread: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/450613#4190979 Unfortunately I'm practically the only one to be writing in this thread, but you may enjoy reading my other two experiences detailed in separate posts in the same thread. One is in regards to how the nigiri-technique used can drastically affect the flavor of the sushi (http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/450613#3032790), and the other is about some of the silent and often unnoticed compensations and adjustments an experienced itamae-san does for his customer (http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/450613#3034657). Wed Nov 26 13:09:52 -0800 2008 4204018 20300 cgfan 7 4206884 FYI: Seeing that the above referenced-thread could be of broader interest than just its regional classification under "California", I've since started a similar thread titled "Your "Shota moment" at a sushi bar?" under "General Chowhounding Topics" at: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/575822 It's a discussion of the subtle but often unnoticed skills that a traditional itamae possesses that makes a real (vs. theoretical) impact to the taste of his sushi. Fri Nov 28 12:00:32 -0800 2008 4204082 20300 cgfan 6 4204477 Hi KK i) Morimoto is a grate chef but Ithink that was a stant to catch tennsion by director. It doesn't make sence. sounds like Sea salt and rock solt mixed together. Does it make difference in food? I hard some of tose beef were smuggled in some time. I did once long time ago.ii) Katsu san was well trained in Japan. But he also had balls to take chance in biz ,food etc. i hard some times he is so scary to his employees. iii) I don't know the specic answer. But kampyo maki usualy eaten at the end . So may be enjoy the sweetnes more? Hoso maki cut in 6 pc is some time too small for men I guess.I don't care eather way. I'll eat them anyway. Eating sushi is not about trendy style . As long as you don't make mess, you can order or eat any way you like. It's your money. Wed Nov 26 16:24:50 -0800 2008 4204018 242861 bigtuna27 7 4205026 cgfan I just saw your Kaito post (and I drool over your pics of your multiple visits there often), and it is enlightening that you have a great itamae at Kaito to show you the merits of good traditional skill and in a way to test you in a friendly way (because he knows you are a Shota eater or maybe like that detective in Kuitan TV series). As far as the kanpyo maki yotsu giri question, I've asked that of one of my local itamae (classically trained/apprenticed in Japan) and his apprentice, and both of them too could not come up with an answer. All I can say is that in agreement, it tastes better (more mouthful per bite). Men usually take bigger bites, so you get a better sense of balance of good shari, nori, and content. This I can relate to why in Shota No Sushi, the battle #3 (topic makimono) for who represents the new sushi master competition, that Shota won because he made yotsu giri (4 pc cut) with his makimono, which was interestingly some simmered Taiwanese style clam, while Saji-san (opponent) took some high end shimofuri wagyu and aburi'd the hell out of it, paired it with chopped garlic, and did a 6 pc cut. But still, standard-wise, kanpyo is typically 4 cut, not other makimono. So cgfan, next time you go to Kaito, ask for an UNCUT hosomaki of your favorite kind. Then eat it like you're holding a mini flashlight (or a McDonald's $1 breakfast burrito). You can vary the bite size, and it is challenging but heaps of fun to eat. My itamae once did a maguro natto uncut hosomaki as an item near the end of my meal (omakase). It was a little messy eating it, but enjoyed it. I can't remember which chef told me this, but there are people who eat uncut futomaki (and I see that Nijiya supermarket has this in their refrigerator deli's too). That must be like eating a burrito supreme but healthier. Wed Nov 26 21:52:36 -0800 2008 4204477 12872 K K 8 4205096 KK: thank you for referencing my earlier posts from a separate thread. http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/450613 and for commenting on my photos taken at Kaito. For the others here is my ever-growing picture collection of Morita-san's exquisite sushi, so far all 818 of them! http://www.flickr.com/photos/akatayama/sets/72157594293451004/ , and as a slideshow: http://www.flickr.com/photos/akatayama/sets/72157594293451004/show/ Yes, after many years of dining in front of Morita-san's bar at Kaito, I have indeed learned much from him but still know so little. And the occasional "sushi tests" or revelations that he throws my way always keeps it interesting, which was the main subject of the referenced thread. Just for easy reference, here are just a few of the "aha" moments that I have experienced at his bar, and at the bar of another long-time itamae, Shibutani-san of Shibucho. * two nigiri of maguro taken from the same fillet and from consecutive cuts - which one tastes better, and why [different nigiri technique used between the two] * at the very start of our meal, 4 nigiri were served to me ordered right to left [more mild to less mild] on a plate, while my dining companion had hers served left to right [she was left-handed, while I was right-handed, something the itamae could not know except to observe how she drank her tea, as this was her first visit to his sushi bar] * 2 freshly filleted anago with tare - what's the difference? - one used an off the shelf tare, the other the meticulously reduced traditionally prepared sauce which uses anago as part of the recipe * my most recent "sushi test" with the 4-cut vs. 6-cut kampyo-maki Re. the kampyo-maki test, to me the 4 piece roll had better balance, while with the 6 piece roll the kampyo overpowered the shari. Why would this be? My suspicion is that while the ratio of shari to kampyo is the same in each circumstance, certainly more of the kampyo is left "exposed" relative to the "protected strips of kampyo" inside the roll in the 6 piece roll, thus upsetting the balance. Milder ingredients such as the kyuuri in the kappa-maki does not have the same overpowering potential. Wed Nov 26 22:44:44 -0800 2008 4205026 20300 cgfan 1 4201038 bigtuna-san, where in Japan are you from? Where did you train? Also, which are your favourite sushi-yas both here and in Japan? Doumo arigatou gozaimasu. Tue Nov 25 10:29:38 -0800 2008 4197048 12873 OCAnn 2 4201735 I'm from Kobe. Famous for Kobe beef and big earthquake. Iwas trained in my friends father's small sushi bar. Probably not exist anymore now. I haven't been back over 15yrs so I don't know which one is good now. Here, I like Takao in Brent wood Ca.,Kampuchi in Gardena Ca. But I go En sushi in Santa Monica ca and Azami on Melrose La ca a lot. Because my friends work there. Oh by the way thanks for backing me up on KTin NYC's coment. I'll keep going with my pidgin enblish. ha ha Tue Nov 25 14:43:03 -0800 2008 4201038 242861 bigtuna27 1 4201687 Hey bigtuna Is it ok for me to show my sushi chef the Monterey Bay Aquarium List of fish to avoid. It is sufggested we avoid some fish due to unsustainable practices or heavy metal contamination found in certain species or origins. My wife says it would be very offensive. Tue Nov 25 14:22:56 -0800 2008 4197048 23652 dijon 2 4202075 Well. If you want to eat good sushi,you can do it after the dinner I guess. I don't think they'll take it too offensive. Some of them are curious about it too. If they have no choice for the biz wise,they'll use that fish anyway. I don't use chillian sea bass in my menu at all. You know the reason right? But if I were you, I'll keep it between friends. Just because good chef is hard to find now a days. Tue Nov 25 17:07:15 -0800 2008 4201687 242861 bigtuna27 1 4201769 Well hi there, Big Tuna. First things first. You URL to your website on your profile page is out of whack. Doesn't work. Wanna fix it? Now, for my serious question for a serious sushi chef...I'e never set foot in Japan, but I've been doing sushi for fifty plus years, at least. And I believe I was taught correctly from the beginning. I've been blessed by getting to be a regular of some very talented guys! The simple rule is and always has been TRUST the chef! He not only knows what every particular fish tastes like, he knows what THIS particular fish tastes like. He vinegaars his rice perfectly. Just the perfect amount of wasabi smeared on the rice before the fish goes on. He has the perfect mixture of sauce/glaze to paint across it before presenting it to you. And you eat it with your fingers in one bite. You know what really ticks me off? Gping to a sushi bar and a small dish of "dipping sauce" and a portion of wasabi is presented to me along with the presumably perfect sushi! So who's playing games here? If a sushi chef is REALLY good, why is this stuff put anywhere near a customer? But don't take away my pickled ginger just in case I want to change fishies! Okay, Obiwan Kahuna, gimme your best answer! '-) PS: Are you a Hollywood screenwriter working on a script? Tue Nov 25 14:54:00 -0800 2008 4197048 112096 Caroline1 2 4202115 I'll take alook at it later. Now God bress you. You are one of the lucky ones. You got everything right. I totally agree with you if this is the perfect world. But we live in Los Angeles USA.. Land of everything goes. No body here want to be told how to do. Everybody create thier own way. It's the culture we have here. Long time ago in Japan at good places,sushi was served the way you described. I tried for the beggining of my time here but don't work. Majority of sushi customers don't care traditional way. Just the good food they like. Think about the changes we made for Pizza,Tacos etc. For the sushi chef and the restaurant, biz comes first. It's a part of service industry. I changed a lot too. I do something I am not proud of sometimes just to please customer. I had argued with customer, had kicked them out etc. Not only sushi but food in general changes along with the culture change. I know in fact in Korea or China, regular sushi is not so popular but california style roll is. They probably serve in different ways in any other countries too. Honestly I rather serve in the way you discribed but I can only do sometimes when I got customer like you. It's the fact of life.Too bad. No I'm not a screen writer. Do they make more money? ha ha Thank you. Tue Nov 25 17:28:23 -0800 2008 4201769 242861 bigtuna27 3 4202358 Nah. Most screenwriters don't make more money than a sushi chef. You probably have a couple of them working on your wait staff. '-) Tue Nov 25 19:09:49 -0800 2008 4202115 112096 Caroline1 1 4202791 I'd heard that only a few companies control much of the import/catch of sashimi/sushi grade fish in the US market. Does anyone know whether this is true? Or is the market perhaps more regionally based? Separately, how much leeway might a local sushi-ya have in purchasing fish? How wide is the quality range of fish from local suppliers or importers? Are there things we might be interested in learning about the distribution process? Wed Nov 26 01:14:58 -0800 2008 4197048 104871 jcr1 2 4203738 I don't know exactry but There are more than few lebel to go through to get to sushi bar.For instant TUNA-- The boat takes 1~2 days or more to get to the fishing area and it won't depart until tank is full. If they got full in one day they'll be back in port in few days If not they will stay up to week there. So freshest tuna you get will be at least 1 week old. When they got full tank , tuna in the bottom of the tank get presshered by others weight. it'll be damaged and they are pretty much soaked in thier own pee. in my knoeledge ther is at least # 1 grade, #1 1/2,# 2 and # 3. You have to pay to get good sushi. Ok? you don't want to get #3. Don't go cheap pkace. Wed Nov 26 10:50:42 -0800 2008 4202791 242861 bigtuna27 1 4202834 Hello Bigtuna! I have a couple of what you might call newbie sushi questions lol 1. What is your opinion of sushi in landlocked areas that don't have such easy access to fresher fish? I have heard that fish that's served raw is generally frozen beforehand (you can correct me on that) so does it then make a difference if it's frozen for a few days longer in order to reach its destination? I live in Iowa, so this is relevant to my sushi experiences :) 2. So, my first time eating sushi, one of the chefs handed myself and my friend a dish of octopus to try (I think he was impressed we ordered nigiri our first time out). It was very tasty but also very chewy. Was it overcooked or is it supposed to be rubbery? I loved the taste (he dressed it with teriyaki and sesame) but the chewiness put me off. 3. Lastly...What would you recommend for someone who doesn't like fishy-tasting or strong-flavored fish? I liked the taste of salmon nigiri, but I don't believe it was very fresh. The texture was very soft, almost like mush. Thanks for being a good sport! Wed Nov 26 03:32:48 -0800 2008 4197048 112034 spellweaver16 2 4203962 .1. Not all of them. Coast area gets most of them fresh. The comment on frozen fish was excuse but I'm sure geting fresh one is very hard in Iowa.2. ask chef cut it very thin and tenderize it. but we enjoy chowyness. 3.Salmon need some curing. salt it lightly and let it sit 1 hour then wash w/ light vineger water to get lid of smell etc. note. Fishiness and original fish flavor is different. Try go to reg market and get halibut wait few says and smell or taste. Then go to good sushi bar and order halibut. You can tell the difference . Then remember Wed Nov 26 12:13:12 -0800 2008 4202834 242861 bigtuna27 3 4204487 Thank you so much! Wed Nov 26 16:30:11 -0800 2008 4203962 112034 spellweaver16 1 4204307 thanks for a deeply entertaining thread, bigtuna. any opinion on how to eat nigiri: rice side down, sidewise or fish side down? Wed Nov 26 15:05:38 -0800 2008 4197048 64215 cimui 2 4204435 Hi big tuna here!! You are paying for it so it's up to you if you don't mind others thought. But rice side down make your plate messy--bad manner in Japan. Side wise is in between but you like soy sauce then it's a way to go. Most common and polite way is hold sushi side way and dip fish side only and eat it in 1 bite for men. Ladies and kids can ask chef to cut in half[ before dipping of cause]. One more thing. You don't have to use chopsticks at the counter if you are only eating sushi. Not at a table or when you are eating other dishes. That's why we offer hot towels to wipe your finger not your face ha ha Wed Nov 26 16:02:15 -0800 2008 4204307 242861 bigtuna27 3 4205106 hmm, would it make your plate messy if the rice is well pressed? i know yasuda san (naomichi yasuda), one of my favorite sushi chefs in the u.s., prefers that his guests eat nigiri rice side down. perhaps that is in part to highlight his excellent sushi, though. do you think it's an old school / new school divide? i don't ever dip in soy sauce because he always brushes it on prior to serving and more soy sauce would be overkill. i also never eat nigiri with chopsticks. for one thing, i'm too ungraceful with them. (my relatives all laugh at my usage. ;) i did wonder at a recent meal, though: what do you do when you have a few grains of rice stuck to your fingers after you've eaten the nigir? ok to lick it off your fingers or do you (politely) have to wipe it on the finger towel? the rice is really so good, it pains me to leave any of it behind! ;) Wed Nov 26 22:51:31 -0800 2008 4204435 64215 cimui 4 4205170 Don't dip your rice side in soy sauce then it's ok. Lick them Lick them. Be a funny guy and make others laugh. You'll make that sushi bar one fun place to be. Good for you. Thu Nov 27 00:43:49 -0800 2008 4205106 242861 bigtuna27 5 4206211 alright, i'll fess up. i do lick. just wanted to figure out how many people i shock and appall when i do that. ;) thanks, again. Thu Nov 27 21:41:52 -0800 2008 4205170 64215 cimui 1 4204511 Okay, bt san, I have a question for you. I recently watched the rerun of Iron Chef "battle sushi" from a while back. Morimoto looked like a little kid, the show was that old! Asl you're well aware, his reputation is for innovation. But he blew my mind when he prepared his sushi rice. He just spread the vinegar mixture he had put together over the rice and stirred/tossed with a bamboo rice paddle. It's now several decades since I learned to make sushi at home, and I was taught to fan my rice while tossing it to cool in order to make it shiny. And to toast my nori. Are these techniques that are no longer in "fashion"? Oh! And the other thing I've seen on TV shows teaching how to make sushi is to put the wasabi on the FISH before setting the fish on the formed rice. I was taught to put the wasabi on the rice, then set the fish in place. Has the world changed THAT much? The wasabi is probably not all that important, but fanning the rice and toasting the nori make a big difference in my opinion What do you think? Thanks! Wed Nov 26 16:46:50 -0800 2008 4197048 112096 Caroline1 2 4204866 Ok, You probably learned that from granma or old person. It shows that your way is for amature style. Fanning the rice in my opinion is not a good idea. Rice has to be right out of cooker[ Well I'll tell you how to cook later ,ok?] you have to set dressing and bowl ready to go by this time. And toss them soon as possible, as fast as possible to mix. While steam is coming out fom rice dressing can be soaked in. Very important . If you fan rice ,dressing can not be soaked in. Leaving sugar on the surface of rice. this makes it shiny but very hard to make sushi quickly in pro world. I don't like it at all. Wasabi should be on the fish unless you are making boat style for Uni, Ikura etc.Toasting nori is a good idea because when you make sushi at home ,even you bought the nori new it may be some how moist. At the busy restaurant no need. Toasting nori makes nori break crispy and flavor from it is fantastic. I suggest it when you make temaki[hand roll]. It'll enhance taste a lot better. How to cook best rice; 1. pick mid ~ high grade rice. Wash them 5~6 times so that the water get somehow clear. Let it sit in the water at least 1 hr Drain water for 15 min or so. Then add water just little bit less than same amount of rice. Cook 20 min or untill it's ready. After rice was cooked ,let it sit in cooker 15 min. Then toss. Helped you a bit? Wed Nov 26 19:57:23 -0800 2008 4204511 242861 bigtuna27 3 4205221 LOL! You're a fun and funny guy! I really like you! I'm 75 years old and learned to make sushi in my twenties, so that means I probably learned to make sushi from great great grandmothers! AND great great grandfathers! You know, the trouble with age is that our smell and taste memory is the sharpest and most accurate memory we have. Simply put, that means when we fall in love with something for how it tastes and smells, and then time steps in and the style of making it evolves into something that's really not the same dish, then we have lost the thing we fell in love with. It's just not there any more. You think I'm kidding? Ask me what Coca Cola used to taste like... OR fresh caught sashimi grade tuna! '-) I don't mind "new style" sushi. What I do mind greatly is that I cannot get the old style any more. Why can't I get both? It's all very frustrating! Oh...! Thank you for your rice recipe. It's basically the way I've been making it for years. Currently, I use Kagayaki Select rice. MUCH less rinsing required for clear water. BUT! In the last four months it has shot from $3.00 a kilo to $5.00 a kilo. At this rate, how long can it be before premium rice prices are right up there with premium tuna! Mind blowing. Thanks for your answer! If I still lived in L.A. (I was born there but wouldn't want to live there), I would come and have you make sushi your way for me! Meanwhile, every once in a while I will just have to make myself some "stay home sushi" with fanned rice just to make these ancient taste buds happy. '-) Thu Nov 27 03:53:07 -0800 2008 4204866 112096 Caroline1 3 4870863 well I am maybe 1/4 thru this post and i have learned more about sushi than in the past year thank you everybody for you info. i will finish this thread over the next couple of days all of you rock this also serves as a bookmark Sat Jul 18 19:16:40 -0700 2009 4204866 274698 pikiliz 2 4204943 Caroline, I've seen sushi rice made the way you describe; and as bigtuna pointed out, that method was used by a couple of old Japanese women. I never would have guessed that this method was outdated; if anything, I took it as the "traditional" way. I'm learning a lot on this thread..... Wed Nov 26 20:46:42 -0800 2008 4204511 12873 OCAnn 1 4205120 Bigtuna-san, yoroshiku desu. Watashi mo nihon ni umaratan desu. My question is about knives and freshness of sashimi. It has been said that without the sharpest and thinnest kataha knives, and without the training to use the knives properly, the damage to the fish can be significant. Cells are damaged to the point that oxidation starts immediately and occurs faster than when cut properly - this can be tasted and felt quite easily. Do you think this is correct? Is it a significant factor - should amateurs abstain from cutting and serving sashimi (and sushi), leaving it to those that have the right equipment and experience? I understand that many will say that if you can't tell, who cares? But isn't it our responsibility, as customers that want to learn more about sushi, to try to understand these fine points? Also, what do you feel about the serving of Ahi/yellowfin or Big-eye tuna instead of Blue-fin? As Blue-fin disappears, it is getting prohibitively expensive - but shouldn't ahi be sold as kihada and big-eye as mebachi, rather than calling it all maguro and not telling the customer? And Happy Thanksgiving. My family celebrated many thanksgivings in our ancestral home in Yokosuka. Wed Nov 26 23:07:49 -0800 2008 4197048 10312 applehome 2 4205167 Hi. Ist Q Scientifically correct. Dull knife leaves dull surface. There for oxidisation starts on bigger surface. In result it goes bad faster. Real time. doesn't really matter if you eat them right away. But let's say you keep left over longer, it'll show.Customer's knowledge leads you more understanding to the situation if chef did just ok job. But sometime ends up just too critical and make chef uncomfortable.Knowledge can only be showed when both sides are in good term.Otherwise it only bring bad memory. So it's up to you. I had both good and bad experience because customer knew little too much. Blue fin taste way better than others. I tried to sell both kinds at same time. 1.Slow down total tuna sales 2. Sometime people choose by price. So one of them got left over. It's biz and it's a chef's choice how to deal with.. I always tell my customer which kind I have for the day. When I have blue fin some thinks I'm trying to rip off. When I only have Y.fin while b.fin is in season, some look down on us and show off how well he or she knows about sushi. Not all the customer are as understanding as you guys. It's a fact. No I don't think we shoud call them in Japanese names. They have english name already and this is America. But should't be called all MAGURO eather. Chao Thu Nov 27 00:38:51 -0800 2008 4205120 242861 bigtuna27 2 4206201 As I was taught, sliding a really sharp knife - as opposed to rocking it more like the French style (please forgive me for oversimplifying) is better at separating cells from each other as opposed to smashing through cell walls. I don't know if that's true, but the smoother surface reflects the proposed mechanism. Try it both ways with a carrot - the difference is obvious. Thu Nov 27 21:28:05 -0800 2008 4205120 95291 Richard 16 1 4205175 Hi bigtuna27: 1. Which is the preferred method to eat sushi: using chopstick or fingers? 2. Which sushi will you sample if you want to test the culinary skill of another sushi chef or your disciple? 3. What is the ideal time to age toro and hirame before you prepare them to your customers? 4. What is the difference between storing the raw fish/sashimi on the transparent glass fridge commonly used in sushi counters and ice boxes? 5. What is your favorite drink (water, green tea, sake, beer, sochu, wine or whatever) to accompany eating sushi? Thanks for your explanation. Thu Nov 27 00:59:00 -0800 2008 4197048 130720 FourSeasons 2 4205767 Happy Thanks giving everyone. Before I answer, I have to tell you I always wear ties when I go to Thanks Giving dinner to honor. Because I make living with food. Ok that's said here is my answer. 1.Fingers when you eat at the counter and only eating sushi. That's why we offer hot towels to wipe your finger not for your face.2. I would try reg Mackerel, Shrimp. You can try tamago too but it's sweet and make you lose your appitite a bit. And if I do I'll be busted. 3. Toro; As I told in prier blog, tuna takes rather long time to get to the restaurant. So, use it soon as possible. Once you fillet, it only last few days. Hirame; Fish is soft when it's just caught. But it'll get firmer for next 24 hrs or so.Best time to use is with between 12hrs after it was caught to 36 hrs. No fish will be in the market with in 12 hrs .So touch the fish and if it's firm, it's fresh. We enjoy those firmness. If not cure them with light salt for 30min~1hr. You can cure further wrapping with vinegared kombu[ dry kelp]. This taste like totally different and out of the world. 4. Refrigerated sushi case is for convinent reason and health dept want us do that. Ice box will do the job fine specialy if you keep them as a whole fish. If you want to keep the fillet, put it on the ice. Sushi case dry up fillet but ice doesn't. 5. I personaly prefer green tea or sake. Beer make me full too soon.I don't like sochu or any othe strong drinks because it nums my taste buds. Wine; best ones are pinotgligio,sauvinionblanc or line wine. Avoid champaing or chardney. They tend to enhance fish's bad flavor. Over all when you got drunk ,every fish taste good Ha ha. Thu Nov 27 12:37:18 -0800 2008 4205175 242861 bigtuna27 3 4206122 Thanks for your reply. Why would you pick Saba and Ebi for testing the culinary skill? And Tamago is not even fish; why do you select that as well? A well known sushi chef in Tokyo told me that he aged toro for 14 days to enhance the flavor; does that make sense to you since you actually prefer to use it immediately? And I notice top notch sushi chefs in Tokyo prefer to use Ice Box, as I think they said natural ventilated air is preferred to refrigerated air? What is the rational behind that statement? Thu Nov 27 19:54:57 -0800 2008 4205767 130720 FourSeasons 4 4206251 Because those items require cooking skills. not sushi skills. You actually has to have good taste and intuition. I saw that TV show. Unless that tuna was caught off the coast of Japan[ Some time it happens at off Chiba prefecture. 1 hr from Tokyo] , I dought it's true. Toro has a lots of fat . There for even very fresh one you get here turns color and get stinky in 2~3 days in the freg. that's true. But Health dept regulation is different. H.D here doesn't understand knowledge we have or can't, won't. Thu Nov 27 22:58:51 -0800 2008 4206122 242861 bigtuna27 5 4206266 You misunderstood my question. I mean if you want to test the sushi skill of another sushi chef, which piece would you select? Like KK wrote below, which one would be the most difficult and challenging to prepare so that you know if he had done his work correctly. I confirm the well known sushi chef in Tokyo said he age toro for 14 days, no translation error made during the conversation as I was very surprised and reconfirm it again with him. He thinks that it brings tha flavor to another level, which I agree that his toro was heavenly delicious. Thu Nov 27 23:23:34 -0800 2008 4206251 130720 FourSeasons 6 4206328 I'm going to offer opinions on the first two questions you asked. Chopsticks or fingers? I suppose it depends on the construction of the nigiri, regardless of how expert the chef is. I've been to a place or two where it is supposedly "high end" but because of the "warm rice" and colder fish philosophy of the chef (ahem some Los Angeles style sushi), the way the nigiri was molded, and the fact that either there was too much pre-saucing of the nigiri (which lead to the sauce run down into the rice pad), or just due to circumstance (as great of a job the chef did), caused the entire construction of a nigiri to collapse when picked up with fingers. For some reason, when chopsticks are used, the nigiri does not break apart (mostly it is fish separation from the rice pad that breaks into pieces). The biggest offender was a giant raw prawn (ama ebi), with its rice pad broke into 2 to 3 pieces when picked up by fingers, at Sushi Zo in Los Angeles (which made it a challenge to eat without making a mess). The other side of the coin, is to observe what other customers do at the sushi bar or what the chef recommends. For some reason Nick Toshes who wrote the "If You Knew Sushi" article in Vanity Fair last year, was told by the owner of Daiwa Sushi near Tsukiji Fish Market to use chopsticks, versus Masa Takayama in New York telling him to use his fingers (and Atsushi Koseki's book "Best Selection of Tokyo Fish Market" where he has a small writeup of Sushi Ryu also inside Fish Market where the chefes tell the European tourists "hand! hand!" and offer no chopsticks). For sure no fingers with sashimi, I think most people know that. I suppose you can get away with eating the ginger next to the wasabi with your fingers. Also I think what Bigtuna27 meant with his answer regarding "testing the chef's skils": - marinating a mackeral or silvery fish is in a way "cooking" or prep skill. The degree of salt marination (or initial rub and vinegar wash, rinse, soak) is a carefully controlled receipe with varying results. Certain types of mackeral or silvery fish require very little marination time, whereas other species may need longer. In case anyone wonders, there are books and resources on the subject. Anyone can import a nice whole fish of Kyushu saba, but it takes a trained guy to bring the flavor out, and knowing how to prep that versus say, a mackeral from Norway. I used gizzard shad (kohada) as an example as I've had a varying number of them at different places, and more often than not, it has tasted not as good compared to the mackeral at the same restaurant. I believe this as a result, to be more difficult to prepare and get right (also the selection of a good batch or piece of fish, is also key, probably requires more scrutiny). - there are many ways to make tamagoyaki, and I too am fascinated by the many different variations out there. Yes very simple ingredients, boiled down to eggs, mirin, sake (maybe), sugar, but some chefs add other things. The already mentioned "Shota No Sushi" TV episode from the 90s had one dedicated to the protagonist trying to learn to make tamagoyaki (in fact the restaurant where he was apprenticing) so not making it right meant dishonoring the name of the place. It is that episode that watchers learn that using some grated mountain yam (yamaimo) that helps provide the cohesiveness of the overall product (so if you take a thin piece and bend it, it won't snap as easy). Some use ground fresh shrimp to add some flavor. One of the best versions I had was supremely moist and juicy from a great konbu dashi addition. Perhaps these two are not difficult for any master chef, but I think what BT27 is answering is "whether the chef knows these basics and does it well". So if someone fails at these two (easily most non Japanese run sushi bar places in the USA, because most of them outsource tamago to pre-made versions), it could be warning signs to the traditionalist eater. But I have been to places where the egg is OK, the mackeral is interesting but not mindblowing, yet other items were better. I guess there is no hard and fast golden rule that applies to sushi chefs, they are all different and specialize in their own thing which you will have to find out hopefully ahead of time to max out your enjoyment. Finally cimui mentioned Naomichi Yasuda in New York. The restaurant's website briefly mentions storage and aging of fish (in general) that might give you some insight. http://www.sushiyasuda.com/restaurant.html On my to-try before I die list someday.... By the way I've read Yasuda-san is a specialist in tuna (at least 7 types of toro), 4 types of fresh eel, and a good portion of those are local sources (East Coast), maybe 40 types of fish and one meal you might not be able to finish trying them all. For sure I wouldn't bother testing his mackeral and egg skills, there's better things to be had. Fri Nov 28 03:16:27 -0800 2008 4206266 12872 K K 7 4206478 Hi KK: 1. Re Chopsticks vs fingers: I normally use chopsticks for sushi, but there is only one incident that the sushi chef in Tokyo (and this happened to be what I think is the best sushi house in the world) kept urging and insisting that I use my fingers. I just want to know what bigtuna think of this matter. He apparently agree on this issue. 2. Re testing the chef's skill: I am asking bigtuna because of a 30 minutes TV show called "Japan Hour" that was shown in Singapore about 2-3 years ago. The show features the legendary sushi chef Jiro Ono, the founder of Sukiyabashi Jiro, the Michelin 3 stars sushi house in Tokyo. The first 15 minutes segment shows the preparation work in his restaurant; the second 15 minutes shows the reporter and Ono-san travelled to his ex-disciple's Sushi restaurant about 1 hour train ride from Tokyo. On the show, to test his disciple's skill, Ono requested two sushi from him as the standard for his sushi skill. Now, I just want to know from bigtuna if this is the standard benchmark for most sushi chefs. I will wait for bigtuna's answer before revealing the two sushi. 3. Re Sushi Yasuda: I have tried Sushi Yasuda when I visited NYC this summer. To be honest, I find it gimmicky that he has to prepare 7 types of toro, 4 types of eel. I personally do not understand what the purpose is to have so many different kinds of toro and eel. Most top notch sushi chefs in Tokyo never do that; they will just pick the one or two that they think are the best quality. My own conclusion is that Sushi Culture still has a mystic barrier in US, and this is just Yasuda's way to educate his customers by showing different varieties to satisfy their intellectual curiosity. Fri Nov 28 07:11:13 -0800 2008 4206328 130720 FourSeasons 8 4213546 Blasphemy! Yasuda doesn't *have* to prepare 7 types of toro. He offers at least 4-7 types of toro per night. We're not talking Michael Mina's "X" 3 ways or Nozawa's "trust me" or Sasabune's "hot rice" gimmicky here. When you have big eye otoro next to blue fin otoro next to kama toro, you can actually taste the difference in flavor and texture between each type of toro. Not all toro is created equal. And it's not always the fattier the better. Sometimes I find that the grade between chu toro and otoro is tastier because it offers more flavor than "grade 5" otoro. These are things that you don't get to appreciate if your average itame only offers 1 or 2 types of toro. As for the eel, Yasuda is an eel specialist and again, having freshly grilled unagi kuro, freshly grilled anago, and sawani side by side lets you appreciate the difference in flavor, texture and oil content of each type of eel. Mori has only recently started serving freshly grilled anago but I have yet to find anyone in LA that offers as many types of freshly grilled eel as Yasuda or anyone that can match his freshly grilled unagi kuro for that matter. It's Yasuda's quality and selection that pretty much puts him head and shoulders above the competition. It's a luxury you won't find anywhere else, not even at Urasawa and it's all the more reason why I personally crown Naomichi Yasuda king of sushi. While I personally can't compare Yasuda to the top chefs in Tokyo, others, including Silverjay, tell me that Yasuda is tops even by Tokyo standards. Mon Dec 01 21:16:28 -0800 2008 4206478 13289 Porthos 9 4213605 Hi Porthos: Sorry to tell you what I wrote is not "Blasphemy". Don't misunderstand me; Yasuda-san is good, but to elevate him to "tops even by Tokyo standard" is perhaps too stretched. I am a regular visitor to Tokyo; I have been to many good sushi places and Yasuda would not be as good as the "best" in Tokyo. Yasuda is perhaps head and shoulder above the competition in US, but when you have the opportunity to go to Tokyo, please try Sawada, Mizutani, Saitou, Kanesaka, Jiro, then you will understand what I mean. Unfortunately, I don't really like the eel in Yasuda. He told me he bought the eel from Chinatown, the origin is from Florida, I recall, and he was quite proud of it. But I thought it was just average though I did not dare to tell him so since I will only offend him. If you have the opportunity, please try the anago sushi at Jiro or Mizutani, then you will feel like the anago melt in your mouth. As to toro, I agree that his preparation of toro is good. And I know all toros are not equal; and even the way the chef prepare is different. Like you read above, bigtuna would not dare to age toro but some chefs do so at controlled temperature with ventilated air, not referigerated air (according to bigtuna, this is not allowed in US). I think, in a way, Yasuda is trying to educate his American customers on the different flavor of different types of toro. Nothing wrong with that, but I just find it a marketing gimmick to promote on his website that he prepares 7 types, as though that means his provides "better" toro. Again, I enjoyed my sushi meal in Yasuda. I do not mind to visit there again on my next visit to NYC. I was impressed with his varieties, his amazing speed and I thought it was "value for money" based on his standard. But don't equal that to "tops in Japan". Mon Dec 01 21:59:57 -0800 2008 4213546 130720 FourSeasons 10 4213673 To clarify, I did not mean to imply that Yasuda would be top 5 in Tokyo but that Yasuda would be considered high quality even by Tokyo standards. As for eel, I would like to hear where you have had better eel in the US. If you know of any in the LA area, please let me know. When you say average, it is a bit of an exaggeration. Average means 50%. Meaning that 50% of sushi places do eel better than Yasuda and that's simply not correct. If you mean subpar compared to Jiro, arguably one of the best sushi restaurants in the world, then I could not argue with you. I remember that NYC post where you went to Yasuda and had the "misunderstanding" at Babbo. I think you may be reading too much into him advertising 7 types of toro and him insinuating that it is "better" toro. The former is a fact. The latter is your interpretation. And for the record, 99% of the time, he does serve better toro. You may call it gimmicky but it is no different than an itame who advertises that he mills his own rice, makes his own shoyu, and uses fresh wasabi. Gimmicky or attention to detail and quality? Is it a gimmick to say that 14 days is ideal for aging toro? People that want 7 types of toro and want to taste the difference between tuna from Spain and tuna from Boston know that Yasuda can provide that experience. I wish more sushi restaurants could offer the type of experience and education that Yasuda does. Mon Dec 01 23:05:40 -0800 2008 4213605 13289 Porthos 11 4213708 Hi Porthos: I don't live in US; maybe you need to ask bigtuna which place serves the best eel in US. But I standby the "average" statement; it was just one visit so hopefully it was just an isolated incident. But the eel was really average; my regular sushi restaurant in Singapore serves better than the one I had in Yasuda. While I said his toro is good, I really would not say "99% of the time he serve better". But if that is how you feel, that is good. I am happy for Yasuda. Maybe I don't understand the marketing culture of America; I don't know anywhere in the world where a sushi house has such a pretty website with so much promotion of "7 types of toro, 4 types of eel" or "mills his own rice, makes his own shoyu, and uses fresh wasabi". Most sushi places I go are very small and intimate with no website and no advertisement. So I find it gimmicky. If you don't agree, that's fine. Just for the record, the sushi chef I mentioned did not volunteer the information about the ageing; he did not even said 14 days is "ideal"; it is just the way he prepares it. Since bigtuna is kind enough to encourage us amatuers to ask questions, I just ask him if that is common. It is certainly not part of the promotion of that sushi chef, but it was just something I learned during the meal. I am impressed you still remember my trip to NYC. As to Babbo's, it is not my interpretation. Toronto CH Charles Yu felt the same way. Mon Dec 01 23:46:18 -0800 2008 4213673 130720 FourSeasons 12 4216565 My memory actually isn't that good, it was just a very memorable thread. You had many misunderstandings of "american restaurant culture and etiquette" at Babbo and Yasuda. Tue Dec 02 23:22:42 -0800 2008 4213708 13289 Porthos 13 4217267 Porthos, if you can ever pull yourself away from Yasuda's tracker beam, Masato, the chef at 15 East near Union Square, also offers a variety of non-"gimmicky" toro cuts. Wed Dec 03 09:01:24 -0800 2008 4216565 10903 Silverjay 12 4216566 After some thoughts, I think I need to clarify my "average" statement on the above post. I am a bit picky when it comes to Sushi and I tend to go only to the top end sushi places. I don't go to conveyor belts type or an "average" sushi house; I don't even go to Tsukiji when I visit Tokyo. So from my perspective, the "average" is in comparison to to those top end places that I tried, not the average of the overall market. Tue Dec 02 23:22:50 -0800 2008 4213708 130720 FourSeasons 13 4216706 Clearly, you don't understand either American or Japanese culture. And I don't really think you understand sushi all that well either. Sushi Yasuda is one of only a handful of authentic sushi restaurants in New York City, so it's only natural to provide American diners with some explicit information and education on their website on what to expect. The shop is in mid-town Manhattan, blocks away from both Grand Central Station and the United Nations building. There are many patrons from around the world who dine at Sushi Yasuda who will be trying sushi for the first time. So what if they have a simple website elaborating on the cuisine a little bit? You don't do business in New York City without a website. Period. It doesn't matter how many stars you have. This is something that most foreign visitors appreciate, not stick their nose up at. Yasuda's restaurant is rather large and he manages to day after day serve high quality, authentic, culturally uncomprimising sushi with his own unique approach to shari and procurring local seafood (his two trademarks- neither of which were mentioned in your's and Mr. Yu's coverage earlier in the year). That he does this without being a 10 minute motorbike ride from Tsukiji market and without the discerning tastes of Ginza patrons is a testament to his commitment and talent. So I think it's pretty snotty to blast him for not being on the same level as Ono or Mizutani. Regarding the notion of detailing the focus on tuna and eel- in Japanese dining culture there is a term called "こだわり" (kodawari) which doesn't translate well into English, but refers to what a restaurant/chef takes special pride in obtaining, preparing, offering. It's the cultural norm for Japanese restaurants to detail their "kodawari" ingredients, dishes, approach, etc. Restaurant websites in Japan usally have a separate "kodawari" page. This includes all types of restaurants from ramen shops, to sushi, to kaiseki. There's plenty of great sushi restaurants that do this on websites in Japan. "Kodawari" concept is very Japanese, not something tourists usually pick up on. Tuna and eel are Yasuda's kodawari items. And there are MANY, MANY sushi places that have a special focus on tuna, including top end places. Offering multiple types of toro is de rigeur for kodawari maguro chefs. It's not a gimmick and it has nothing to do with the shop being inferior to other shops. This is real Japanese food culture, not just the old guys in Ginza who are visited by French publishers. Wed Dec 03 04:16:16 -0800 2008 4216566 10903 Silverjay 14 4216726 Clearly, I am not a gaijin that try to pretend like I am an authority in Japanese cuisine and try to charm my way with American readers in an American website who are not familiar with Japanese cuisine and tried to act like an authoritative figure. I understand Yasuda is trying to educate his American clients; I was there in his restaurant and he tried hard to explain the clients on my left and right how to appreciate their sushi. I don't stick my nose up at Yasuda, please read carefully what I wrote. I, in fact, said he is good but when Porthos tried to elevate him, based on your comment (which I don't regard you as authority in sushi too), that it is "top by Japanese standard", that I disagree. You have the right to have that opinion; I have the right to have a different opinion. I accept diverse opinions, and do not try to impose my values on others, like the way you do often. Please read carefully again, I wrote to Porthos: "But if that is how you feel, that is good. I am happy for Yasuda". And I did not "blast Yasuda on the same level as Mizutani and Jiro" until Porthos himself challenged with the "top by Japan level" statement, and that I feel a need to clarify based on my experience. And I did not blast Yasuda, I just told Porthos if he had the chance to visit the top end sushi places that I recommend. Is that considered a blast? Eel maybe considered Yasuda's kodawari item. But if I don't like his eel, am I supposed to write that it is great, that I love it. Couldn't you accept a different opinion than the consensus in Chowhound? Am I supposed to join in the crowd on herd instinct here to praise his eel. If that is how you feel, please don't read my post again. And if you think that it is the business culture to have a beautiful website in America to attract business, that is fine. I don't have a problem too. That you can explain to me: I understand they have the right to survive as a business. But then you think I don't have a right to think it is "gimmicky"? Well, I don't visit restaurants based on the websites they produced. I don't visit a sushi place based on the claims by an sushi chef that he makes 7 or 8 types of toro. If you do, that is fine. But again, don't impose your value to everyone else. And if you think Mizutani as just some old guy in Ginza visited by French publisher, then don't visit there again. You can have you good time in some old neighborhood and pretend to be like a "Japanese expert". Wed Dec 03 04:37:48 -0800 2008 4216706 130720 FourSeasons 15 4216748 I agree, let's not fight. I must say though, that I find a website very useful. I like browsing what I want at home first, before trying many different restaurants, and sometimes you may find a surprise on the menu that draws you. And sometimes you can see the restaurant etc. In fact, here's an anology; you wouldn't base an impression of a restaurant on the quality of the menu, but many good restaurants would have that attention to detail; websites are the same as the menu. Wed Dec 03 05:06:15 -0800 2008 4216726 180623 Soop 16 4216752 Hi Soop: I agree not to fight. I believe we are here for fun, not to combat. I just don't like others to impose their values on me. I have no problem others have different views from me at all. Wed Dec 03 05:09:26 -0800 2008 4216748 130720 FourSeasons 16 4217260 I have to chime in here; I disagree that websites are the same as the menu, particularly for Japanese restaurants & sushi-yas here. I know quite a few OC sushi-yas that either don't have or have a barebones website.... Wed Dec 03 08:58:14 -0800 2008 4216748 12873 OCAnn 15 4217251 This is a public forum that is a platform to exchange ideas. Whether or not I'm a gaijin or pretending to be anything is totally irrelevant. I think you've done an enormous discredit to your sincerity and credibility by making a personal attack on me. No one reading this board needs to accept that simply because you have been to the top sushi restaurants in Japan, that this is some sort of trump card that can be thrown down to validate your opinions and it most certainly shouldn't have to serve as the last word in a discussion. Most posters here can accept that this is a free flowing discussion and do not need to resort to getting personal. Wed Dec 03 08:56:21 -0800 2008 4216726 10903 Silverjay 16 4217290 I think you should read your own post first to understand how rude you were by pretending you are the authoritative figure who can bully others according to your own world view. I only share my experience and view with Porthos, and we agreed to disagree with our differences, and certainly did not use it as a trump card to discredit him. And I certainly did not blast Yasuda himself. And as you said yourself this is a platform to exchange ideas, I have the right not to like the eel and the promotion method. I suggest that you don't read and reply anymore on my post and I will do the same as well on your post. Like I wrote before, I don't like to combat in Chowhound. It is taking the fun out. Wed Dec 03 09:08:24 -0800 2008 4217251 130720 FourSeasons 17 4217421 By saying "you were by pretending you are the authoritative figure who can bully others" you demonstrate some type of bizarre proprietorship and uber-sensitivity to simpy being part of a public forum. My contention is that this is something personal as opposed to me being critical of your posted commentary. Wed Dec 03 09:48:06 -0800 2008 4217290 10903 Silverjay 16 4217306 I just read all of his posts - I didn't see a personal attack - could you perhaps be reading his posts in the wrong light? I've done this before and thought someone was attacking me. But for the record, I don't see it. Lets all just take a deep breath and continue - I'm enjoying this thread, and learning a lot! (I'm stictly eating, I'm no pro!) @ OCAnn, I apologise, I didn't make my point quite right. What I mean, is that good western restaurants that I've seen take a lot of care in selection of their cutlery and crockery, their artwork, their music, their menu (the actual item, not the selection) which all adds up. I would naturally expect them to extend this attention to detail to the website. Saying that, the best Italian restaurant I know where I live has no website Wed Dec 03 09:13:29 -0800 2008 4217251 180623 Soop 17 4217335 Hi Soop: You are kind enough to intervene. I don't know if your question address to Silverjay or me. But I am tired of exchanging on this issue anymore and like to put it to rest. So I won't discuss it anymore; I hope Silverjay does not too. Wed Dec 03 09:21:58 -0800 2008 4217306 130720 FourSeasons 17 4217381 Ah yes, thank you for clarifying...you're right: the western restaurants put in a lot of labour of love into their restaurants and into their websites. And now that you've pointed it out (re Italian restaurant), many ethnic restaurants do not.... Wed Dec 03 09:36:31 -0800 2008 4217306 12873 OCAnn 18 4217633 Hi Minasan!! Let's take a deep breath . Everybody knows things through their own expierience. There are no who's right or wrong. Nobody has to know right knowledge. Since we all have a lots of knowledge in ouw own way. We try to have fun sharing those. Don't get personal. I know this may be giving you excitement but just for sushi. It's just a food. Some of you told me I didn't know.Some I may taught. Let's smile and have fun. We are some how off the course of this thread. I'm still here with my pidging english. ha ha. SMILE Wed Dec 03 10:46:44 -0800 2008 4217381 245242 honey bee7 19 4217984 you sound like bigtuna.... Wed Dec 03 12:33:43 -0800 2008 4217633 12873 OCAnn 20 4218479 I used my wife's name by accident. Ha ha Wed Dec 03 15:15:02 -0800 2008 4217984 242861 bigtuna27 15 4217631 To Fourseasons, again, I was not implying that Yasuda was top 5 in Tokyo. I was stating that Yasuda is high quality even when judging by japanese standards. For the record, Silverjay is very knowledgable and his sushi experience is very extensive. He is fair and objective in his assessment. There are very, very few people I trust more in the matters of sushi. As for "authority". This is Chowhound. No one is an authority on anything. There is only taste. We trust those posters who we share similar tastes and standards with. Having said that, I believe it is very insular to mock or criticize what we don't understand. Wed Dec 03 10:46:28 -0800 2008 4216726 13289 Porthos 16 4217929 One question to Four Seasons. I can understand you want to avoid Tsukiji altogether as the quality of sushi there is sub-par compared to the top places in Ginza and nearby. But other than that and perhaps touristy and overcrowding, what are your personal reasons for not doing so. Have you ever visted there (or maybe you have and you didn't like the environment)? Tsukiji may be touristy, but there are off the beaten path places to eat affordable good non sushi food at hole in the wall style eateries. If I had the pleasure of dining at the high end sushi restaurants, I'd be curious to at least witness what goes on at the source. There are books/reviews that mention that even Mizutani gets his tuna from a reknowned tuna wholesaler, also used by one or more maguro specialist sushi shops that would be deemed sub-par (although of course people like Mizutani and higher end places get dibs on the prime cuts first obviously). Wed Dec 03 12:16:48 -0800 2008 4217631 12872 K K 17 4218818 Hi KK: No, you misunderstood me. I don't avoid Tsukiji for sub-par/touristy/overcrowding issues. I have been to Tsukiji once, only many years ago. But I do travel to Tokyo twice per year, each time about 5-6 days, which means I can try around 10 meals on each trip. So I am very selective about the restaurants I choose and planned way in advanced. Somehow, there is just no restaurant in that area that make to my list in the last few years; almost went to a wild fugu restaurant in Tsukiji on last trip but had to cancel the reservation due to other urgent matter. It is good that you do so much research and reading on this matter. For me, I am just a foodie, not a researcher. I just like to enjoy my meals and would not bother to check who his wholesaler is, so I am afraid I am not able to confirm to you. Wed Dec 03 17:33:36 -0800 2008 4217929 130720 FourSeasons 16 4218800 Hi Porthos: I don't want to keep coming back to this "high quality by Japanese standard" issue with you. I think if you have a chance to go to Japan you will draw your own conclusion. Like what bigtuna write, "Everybody knows things through their own experience. There are no who's right or wrong." I think he said it best. I only share my own experience with you. (obviusly you don't accept it, which is fine with me) Your own experience will determine the truth for you. It is obvious you are a big fan of Silverjay's writing which is why you make that statement even though I think you have not been to Japan before. (since you never wrote your experience so that is the assumption) You are very loyal to your favorite restaurant and writer. Good for them. Wed Dec 03 17:23:44 -0800 2008 4217631 130720 FourSeasons 17 4219168 FS- I "keep coming back" to the statement because you twist my words to imply something I did not say. You are correct that I have never been to Japan. You don't have to assume, I stated as such in my first post to you. I don't pretend to be something that I am not. As for Silverjay. It's not his writing that I admire but his knowledge, taste, and lack of pretentiousness. This will be my last post on this topic. The proverbial horse is tartared. Wed Dec 03 20:26:09 -0800 2008 4218800 13289 Porthos 18 4219321 Hi big tuna here. let's calm down and try to have fun. There is no reason to carried away. Every body here is knowledgerble including you. why don't we just share that and have fun. No reason to be personal. I want to have fun and learn from you too. Wed Dec 03 22:07:13 -0800 2008 4219168 242861 bigtuna27 18 4219326 Porthos: Re "keep coming back"- you came back three times. This is what you wrote; I did not twist any words at all: 1. "Yausa is tops even by Tokyo standard." 2. "Yasuda would be considered high quality even by Tokyo standard". 3. " I was stating that Yasuda is high quality even when judging by Japanese standard." And you have not been to Japan so it is not through experience you made that statement. So rather than arguing non-stop, we should just close this matter. I agree this will be my last post to you too. Let's not post anymore on this topic. Wed Dec 03 22:11:39 -0800 2008 4219168 130720 FourSeasons 9 4213614 You are one lucky guy to expirience that. good for you. I wish I had chance. Mon Dec 01 22:06:25 -0800 2008 4213546 242861 bigtuna27 6 4207293 I saw that TV show. iThink it's same idea as ageing beef. Protain breaks down and more amino assit comes out. But I never had chance to eat that nor guts to try it on my own toro. ha ha. Take me out to eat that one. I'll try to be nice. ha ha Fri Nov 28 16:35:34 -0800 2008 4206266 242861 bigtuna27 2 4220201 "2. Which sushi will you sample if you want to test the culinary skill of another sushi chef or your disciple?" OK sorry to go back to here. You referenced a Japanese TV episode where Ono Jiro was testing his former disciple/apprentice. Assuming you can read Chinese, there was another blog article linked from a Tokyo Sushi CH thread a year or more ago that I think was written very nicely: http://www.ptt.cc/man/Food/DA58/D926/D9D1/M.1141230260.A.4FC.html Basically the person being interviewed was a former disciple of Jiro's. He did great at raw fish, but when it came time to test his tamagoyaki skills, Jiro said it was a complete failure. The article says the disciple's tamagoyaki ended up like thick fried egg, whereas he was expecting a warm sponge cake like consistency. Jiro even said the color was all wrong, how can you serve this to a customer (and basically lamented over a badly done tamagoyaki), even though per the disciple the color of his prep was no different than that of famous Tsukiji tamagoyaki specialty shops (I think Shouro, website www.shouro.co.jp was one of them cited). The other taste test according to the disciple is gourd, or kanpyo. Also requiring some cooking skills. You know when you first asked this question, I was not sure of the basis. Come to think of it, the taste tester question will likely vary geographically and who is conducting the test and for what reason. Ono Jiro comes from an uber old school and perfectionist/artist style of sushi, so he has his reasons for picking those two items. Plus I am sure that when he first learned and apprenticed, he had to get those two things right, or else he would never move ahead. This is another reason why tamago and kanpyo (with emphasis on PYO when Kaga said it last at the end, as if he were spitting all over the ingredients) were two of several ingredients chosen for "Battle Sushi" on an old Iron Chef episode (along with maguro, anago, kohada). All about the old school classics. Unless you like egg/tamago and kanpyo and must have them with every sushi meal (which are most of the time at least in the USA, not commonly ordered and low end items, where the average sushi eater would rather order hamachi and toro), these are mostly not valid taste testers for most people, unless they are very picky and in the know. Thu Dec 04 09:57:52 -0800 2008 4205175 12872 K K 3 4220674 Talking about picky. You guys {i mean KK ,Silver jey and others] are all quite picky I assume. No offence here. Don't come to my place. I'm very afraid. Ha ha Thu Dec 04 12:28:02 -0800 2008 4220201 242861 bigtuna27 4 4224746 Dont' worry, I can appreciate simple sushi even with cheaper ingredients, you sound like a guy who uses his heart to make sushi (is it called kokoro or something like that?) and that's all that matters. I will still want to eat at your restaurant! So dont' sweat it. Just don't slip me any gaijin uramakimono/funny inside out rolls or a piece of kusaya in my omakase and we'll still be friends, haha. Fri Dec 05 22:48:55 -0800 2008 4220674 12872 K K 4 4382099 I really like mackerel sushi, and certainly have much to learn, so I'm happy to hear that bigtuna27 sees this as a good measure of a sushi chef's skills. Thank you for a great discussion thread bigtuna27! Mon Feb 02 18:45:59 -0800 2009 4220674 18264 steinpilz 1 4205861 I'm so grateful and thankful to have master chef O-Maguro san answer all the good questions and keeping it fun. 1) I personally enjoy a great preparation of marinated tuna (maguro zuke) and one of my local itamae does a superb version with chu-toro that he rarely offers (mostly for himself). Some chefs are of the school that this is a waste of good tuna, others argue that it helps make it last a bit longer. What are your thoughts on zuke? What other fish/neta have you tried that is also great for zuke? I've only had bincho zuke (albacore) and ika (squid) in addition to hon-maguro. Without giving away your own secrets what makes a great maguro zuke (if you make one yourself). 2) For ikura, the standard in Japan and many authentic Japanese run sushi-ya in USA, is ikura no shoyu zuke (marinated in soy sauce, maybe mirin and sake). But in the USA, for most other places, it is shio ikura (salt cured). Was this always the case 30 years ago in Los Angeles as well? And was shio ikura more popular here because it lasts longer, and shoyu zuke is more perishable? Also what makes a good ikura no shoyu zuke receipe? 3) You answered question from Four Seasons that to test the chef, one item to try is shrimp. I agree with saba as one of the taste tests, but I would think a better hikarimono test is gizzard shad (kohada) if that is available. Are you talking about cooked ebi or amaebi (raw)? It's so rare to find places that boil or blanch their own ebi anymore as most mid end places just buy cooked shrimp in bulk. Higher end places might use ao ebi (blue prawn)and lightly poach it, then immerse in ice quickly to seal in the flavor, which perhaps comes close to the real kuruma ebi and can be very tasty. 4) In your classical training, what fish/neta is the most difficult and challenging to prepare? This is of course if you do not consider out of the box type special fish like hamo (which requires special hone giri knife skills to debone), or fugu. Do you think anago preparation (from live fresh eel) is one of the more difficult ones? Which fish/neta takes the most time to prepare? 5) For your regular customers that you serve omakase, other than sashimi, nigiri, and makimono, what kind of side dishes or appetizers have you offered to them in the past? I've had a variety from iwashi shioyaki (salt grilled sardine marinated in innards), ayu (river fish) shioyaki, perhaps a shimaaji, kanpachi, or salmon kama (grilled collar), okara (uohana), kinpira gobo (wild carrot & burdock), tsukemono, and even aji nanbanzuke as some that I remember from many different places. Thu Nov 27 14:50:58 -0800 2008 4197048 12872 K K 2 4205936 Just to provide my perspective on the salmon eggs... Ikura, the processed stuff, is inferior to sugiko or suzuko, IMHO. In the form of the sac, the flavors are natural and much more intense. I've had it right after cutting out of the salmon - my uncle the fishing boat captain told me to just let it sit in shoyu for a few hours to make sure that any parasites are killed off. Just eaten like that, with a bowl of hot rice, it is so much superior to anything served as ikura. Thu Nov 27 16:30:46 -0800 2008 4205861 10312 applehome 3 4205949 Mr OCAnn brought home salmon from his fishing trip to find eggs upon cutting it open. I soaked the eggs in soy sauce & sake for a couple hours before eating. The flavours of our eggs were less salty, more subtle and quite sublime. Bigtuna-san please tell me what the proper preparation is for fresh salmon eggs for home cooks? And maybe two hours was not enough to cure? Maybe I now have parasites? Thu Nov 27 16:57:45 -0800 2008 4205936 12873 OCAnn 4 4206264 I never worked on fresh salmon egg like you guys said. But I did worked on unsolted suziko once. It came out pretty good. 1 part reg soy sauce, 1 part mirin and 1 1/2 part sake. soak in 1 hr or so. but I think I should cured with salt first. So that more fishiness could be lifted. No you don't have parasites. I don't know how long ago you ate that. but if it's more than 1yr ago, you should be dead by now. Thu Nov 27 23:22:22 -0800 2008 4205949 242861 bigtuna27 4 4206329 There was one food travel show out of Hong Kong where the hosts went to Sendai Japan, and had their local Japanese salmon eggs that were first either steamed or gently boiled before marinating in soy sauce, sake etc. I don't recall seeing any salt rub. There was also a very thorough rinse of the egg sac/sujiko too. Fri Nov 28 03:20:43 -0800 2008 4205949 12872 K K 3 4206260 I don't think soy sauce kill parasites. But I also don't think parasites stays in the egg. they stay in the meat. And any parasites in the fresh water fish[ include wild salmon etc] can not be detected by human eyes. and a lot more resal. But I'm sure it taste very good like you said. Thu Nov 27 23:14:57 -0800 2008 4205936 242861 bigtuna27 2 4206257 I'll answer your question later. But I have a question. Who are you? What do you do for lliving. I've read your blog few times. And I think you know way too much. Your question is different from others. Your question is very pricise and not like the question from amature who like sushi a lot. Seems like I'm talking to foood magazine editor or sort of. Thu Nov 27 23:08:59 -0800 2008 4205861 242861 bigtuna27 2 4206267 Hi KK: On your ikura point, just to add another very common standard is to marinate with daishi broth (and soy/mirin) as well. I don't know if that is common in America as I don't live there. Thu Nov 27 23:26:20 -0800 2008 4205861 130720 FourSeasons 3 4206330 FourSeasons: where I live it is not common to find any ikura with soy sauce marination as the base (whether it has mirin, dashi, sake in addition or not). Even some half decent places just source shio ikura and call it a day, as they seem to think that is what is generally accepted. So most of the time you have these dried out saggy egg sacs. Even at Japanese supermarkets. So I guess I answered my own question, for home use if the whole sujiko is available at the supermarket, perhaps I should mess around and try that. BT27: Look forward to your answers. To answer your question, I'm just an average guy (I'm of Chinese backround by the way) who loves Japanese food beyond teriyaki, tempura, ramen, I suppose only seriously been getting into eating sushi 11 years ago or so. I do not work in food industry at all, just ask a lot of questions and have had some great chefs teach me a thing or two, in addition to having a few like minded friends and learning their opinions (plus reading up on what's out there). In fact what I know pales in comparson to a lot of people out there. Fri Nov 28 03:27:41 -0800 2008 4206267 12872 K K 3 4207030 No !!! But you can add dashi kobu it self but not neccesaly Fri Nov 28 13:31:15 -0800 2008 4206267 242861 bigtuna27 2 4207024 Hi KK. 1)You've got all the answer there. Zuke is a very classic technic when no refrigeration was available long time ago. it makes fish laslonger but in side affect make it saltier. good side affect is salt in soy sauce take out excess water from fish so make it more flavorful. No I don't. Most of my customer is cocaision and they don't like saltiness.2) It's just the laziness and luck of knowledge of chefs. It's easier that way. I have been doing for 25 yrs since I got head sushi chef position. I think I write about recipie some where in this thread. Check it out.3) You can get fresh fish easy. But here you have to see vchef's cooking skill and taste. So you order cooked or worked on items. your favorite Ikura is one of them. I like taisho ebi better than kuruma ebi. When cooked it has more flavor. Unless you can get wild kuruna ebi It's useless. Color is better than taisho ebi though.Farm grown kuruma ebi was soaked in fresh water before shipped out so it shrinks when cooked and less flavor. In my opinion kuruma ebi taste best when it was grilled. Size has to be u-10 to enjoy. Unless restaurant is owned by other than Japanese chefs, they cook their own shrimp still.4) you got all the answer there.5) I've done everything you said. I some time expieriment in other cuisine. And some times was mistake. But here they are. Ceviche, Marinated black cod, Miso marinated lack of lamb, Kushi katsu.Tsukune. Kakuni, miso tataki, shiso age, japanese dumplings. wan mono etc. I need full page to write down ha ha. Fri Nov 28 13:25:21 -0800 2008 4205861 242861 bigtuna27 1 4206279 What a fun thread, Bigtuna27! 1) I've had the freedom now as a home chef (I used to be a pro - trained with Hiroshi Hayashi in Boston) of mixing and matching different vinegars to match the ingredients. I know many chefs don't share their mixes, but is there any advice you care to share? 2) I found a wonderful mirin online from Mitoku that claims to be one of the few still using traditional methods. Do you have a favorite? 3) Concerning mixing rice types: The main brand of rice I use is Tamanishiki; itself a blend. I have gone as far as mixing about 1/4 basmati rice if I have a lot of salmon; I like the slight nuttiness. Comments? Fri Nov 28 00:05:38 -0800 2008 4197048 95291 Richard 16 2 4207276 hi Richard. 1) me too. but home use you can expieriment as much as you want. One famous chef was using Balsamic vineger. But again he is not sushi chef. he is traditional japanese cuisine chef. 2) Best commercial brand made from real rice. It's biz . I got to think food cost first ha ha 3) I do not recomend. because rice is not a main item here. Fish is. Rice has to be good enough to support fish to make sushi taste good.I would say med~ good brand will do the job fine. Again you can do anything you want though. Fri Nov 28 16:21:39 -0800 2008 4206279 242861 bigtuna27 3 4207329 O-Maguro san, have you ever used kuro-su/black vinegar for making sumeshi or marinating fish? If so what's the best application? If not, why not (I understand it can be a bit overpowering, but I do like the flavor). I remember in that Shota No Sushi TV episode, there's a hikarimono battle, and the lead character marinated shinko (baby kohada) with some fruit based vinegar, and his opponent Saji, marinated Seki Saba with kuro-su and also used a bit in the sumeshi to make the flavors harmonize. Fri Nov 28 16:56:35 -0800 2008 4207276 12872 K K 4 4207400 You get too much information from TV show. remember those are the fictions and they do extream. Ok That's said. Kurozu is an aged rice vinegar. It is like balsamic vinegar in europe. It's milder and sweeter. I prifer using in salad or finisheing touch for other dishes.It's expensive. But if you can afford why not. I use red vineger for su-meshi now. Red vineger is in between in taste. Everything Tv show said may be true. But how many of us can tell the difference. You just have to believe what they say and pay the price. It's just not practical for the reg sushi bar to do. I prefer Seki saba in taste. Kohada and Aji are popular in Kanto area and Saba is popular in Kansai and west area. You know why? Fri Nov 28 17:44:01 -0800 2008 4207329 242861 bigtuna27 5 4207473 I too love Seki Saba, very expensive though for good reasons. Next is Japanese saba, world of difference from Norwegian kind. "Kohada and Aji are popular in Kanto area and Saba is popular in Kansai and west area. You know why?" That is great fact to know, and I do not know the answer. I'm going to guess it is because historically that has been where those fish come from, ie Kohada and aji are primarily found in Kanto area (East side) and saba from west/south side Kansai. Plus saba seems to be a fish that could be better preserved. Aji probably needs to be eaten fresh and right away for best flavor, otherwise it needs prep like nanbanzuke if not eaten right away. Which reminds me, I saw this Japan TV episode in Taiwan a year ago, there was a Japanese guy who specialise in FISH accupuncture. He placed a new needles in an aji to make it go to sleep, so it could be transported from the fish port to the mountain areas (so after 3 to 6 hours, it would wake up, no shock, still live and kicking for fresh preparation). It was amazing to see. Fri Nov 28 18:37:11 -0800 2008 4207400 12872 K K 6 4207547 Your guess is correct. You amaze me. Wow fish accupancture? t There is a difference in rice preperation too. can you guess? and give me the reason. I feel like teacher ha ha Fri Nov 28 19:29:42 -0800 2008 4207473 242861 bigtuna27 7 4207632 I actually very much enjoy a great saba battera, and it is not very easy to find a good version of this where I live. I've seen kodai and kani battera at those Mitsuwa Japanese food themed fairs, but they don't seem as interesting. A difference in rice preparation between Kanto and Kansai style sushi? I believe it. But the guess? I have no idea. I'm going to go for the wild card guess, and go out on a limb, and assume Kanto style sushi rice is maybe more vinegar flavored, and perhaps Kansai is a bit...I dunno, tad bit sweeter? I haven't had many battera preparations but there seems to be emphasis on sweet and sour tastes from the ones I've had, sweet for example using "shiva" (shaved" ebi, and sour like using ume paste or umeboshi type flavoring inside the battera as a small layer. Fri Nov 28 20:29:49 -0800 2008 4207547 12872 K K 8 4207698 Here is the answer. Kansai style; After tossed rice you have to let it sit for 15~20 min to bring temp down to body temp or room temp before you put it in the jar. Kanto style; you have to put rice in the jar soon as possible. thease difference came from the history of sushi. Kansai has longer history of making sushi but it's old style. Ex. Battera of any kind. Because it supposed be eaten after a while. Rice shouldn't be warm inorder to avoid possible trouble later. Kanto style is a new bee and like I said earlier it is a broken down virsion of traditional sashimi and rice meal. So rice has to be warm.I'm from Kansai area so even though I make new bee sushi, I use Kansai method .battera; Sweet and sour taste comes from pickled kelp on the battera. Shiba is the name of the shrimp used to make those pink stuff inside battera. It called denbu. Denbu was made from white meat fish, shrimp and sugar. We do have persimon leave wrapped sushi in Nara area. It's similar to battera but more like small onigiri size. Persimon leave works as an extra preservative. Fri Nov 28 21:57:34 -0800 2008 4207632 242861 bigtuna27 1 4206459 This has been one of the most informative threads I've read. Here's a basic question that my friends (females) and I have about eating sushi, mostly the larger ones that are still supposed to be bite sized. While the size works well for men who are larger, it is hard to eat it in one bite. Biting in half is impossible, especially with something like gumkan-maki with quail egg but even basic maki rolls can be hard. Any solutions? Do sushi chefs ever consider making proportionally smaller bites? There are some sushi that I just don't order because I know I can't eat them. Thanks! Fri Nov 28 06:57:28 -0800 2008 4197048 39874 chowser 2 4206973 Hi. I'm sure you are different but most american believe in bigger the better. there for most of the case sushi chef has been making bigger sushi and rolls. Other reason; Good sushi chef are hard to find specialy w/o Japanese attitude, w/ good english skills and less expensive in labor. So mamnt hires the chefs trained here or they train quick those who wants job. In the end not only enough skills but also luck of knoeledge and pride. If you can't eat in one bite you can ask them smaller rice or for the femail and kids, ask to cut in half or smaller. in here , that's the only solution I know. Fri Nov 28 12:55:33 -0800 2008 4206459 242861 bigtuna27 3 4207594 Yes, that is one observation I have that the sushi cut in America tend to be bigger than anywhere else. And when I asked the sushi chef, they tend to reply that is the preference there. But for my taste bud, it is just too big. Fri Nov 28 19:58:58 -0800 2008 4206973 130720 FourSeasons 1 4207644 Tamagoyaki (grilled egg) nigiri, when ordered in the USA, is mostly a rectangular block with a piece of nori around the center. However in parts of Japan it is served molded and cut to look like the roof of a house, or a horse saddle (kurakake style I am told). What is the significance of this, and how did this kurakake formation originate? (cgfan might remember this in the tamagoyaki episode of Shota No Sushi where he serves it kurakake, sorry for the mention again). Some of the really top notch places in LA, NY, and Japan make the tamagoyaki look more like a wonderful sponge cake, curious what is needed to achieve that kind of consistency and taste? Fri Nov 28 20:40:53 -0800 2008 4197048 12872 K K 2 4207701 The regular tamagoyaki is the pesint style and easier to make. Kurakae or Yatsuhashi is more classic and noble way. Also need special oven and technic. They are mixed of egg,sugar,mirin and shrimp or white fish paste[ surimi]. Takes too much steps so not very many chefs want to make it. We don't sell much Tamago here anyway. But that's one thing to check chef's skill and pride. It is actually spondge cake with strong egg and fish flavor. Fri Nov 28 22:05:49 -0800 2008 4207644 242861 bigtuna27 1 4208163 What is the best nori to use for sushi or does it depend on the application? Also for US sushi restaurants is the best available kind of nori, Ariake nori from Saga prefecture, or Asakusa nori, or something else? I like those Asakusa norimaki rice cracker snacks from Nijiya, haha. Addictive like crack. Sat Nov 29 10:04:06 -0800 2008 4197048 12872 K K 2 4208315 For pro use. There are few grades. Each brand has different name for the grade. Very best one usually called platinum,ultra gold, premium gold etc. These kinds are very thin and fragil. Good for Temaki and have to eat it right away. For reg roll, 2nd best grade [which is gold ot matsu] will do the job better. For all those humangas Special roll, who cares use anything you want. How about copy paper ha ha. Asakusa nori[ Idon't know they are still making this using real Asakusa nori] has greener in color and beautiful shine. Flavor is more delicate. Ariake nori is almost black and little thicker. Flavor is different from Asakusa nori. Little stronger. But I don't know how many brand is still making w/ real nori harvested from their own sea. Now a days most of big brand is making in Guess where Thai land. Your favorite Asakusa norimaki rice cracker is deffenatly made in there or China. Therte are few Korean made but chewy. Sat Nov 29 11:27:36 -0800 2008 4208163 242861 bigtuna27 3 4208626 Excellent, great to know and big big thanks for continuing to share your knowledge. Nori always fascinates me, something I know little to nothing about. You're spot on about nori from China used in those rice crackers, after all companies have to make a big profit. Asakusa nori is indeed classically hand harvested and farmed. Copy paper, you are too funny, it must be the Kobe humor (I've a friend from Kobe who thinks like you). This discussion thread only proves that sushi is not just putting fish on top of rice. The topic is so broad and wide and deep. Sat Nov 29 14:46:07 -0800 2008 4208315 12872 K K 1 4208630 One more, and this one is about meal progression in omakase. A lot of good places I go to, if I request omakase (and this is not "set menu" style like in LA), I usually get some white fish/shiromi to start with, whether it be tai or hirame. However there are other top places that for some reason start with maguro akami and then chu toro or o-toro. What is the understanding or basis to start off with maguro or even toro for these places? Is it because the chef thinks they are catering to Americans who generally love akami or tuna type red meat, more than shiromi/white fish selection? Some say that having too many varieties in omakase is not good (even if single pieces/ikkan), that towards the end the stronger flavor fish might not taste as good (e.g. you have too many clams and silver fish early on for example). What's a good balance, or does it depend on the customer. Sat Nov 29 14:50:10 -0800 2008 4197048 12872 K K 2 4208696 Ok. I have to tell you industry seacret. Don't tell any one OK?. When you ask Omakase, it's not always best thing chef reccomend. Remember it's a bisiness. Like I told you before unless you are big time regular or good friend with chef, this rule applies. Shirom is kind a hard to sell item. So it's good excuse to get lid of them. Tuna and toro will probably easiest to impress customer. Nosawa starts with tuna roll to buy time I hard. My place is not a high end place. Just little better than avarage. I do have couple Omakase course. I start with miso and sea weed salad and goes to sashimi then sushi. ends with dessert. Very simple. More like pre fixed "you can get better deal with this combo" kind. Every place do it different way. There are always biz mind behind of Omakase. Even if you tell chef "Sky is the limit", same thing. you just get ripped off more. In my expierience best way to ask Omakase is like this. "I can only have $ 100 for two of us. Can you fix me up with little special thing included but sushi and couple sake only.. I can't eat this and that" Honest approach always works. I had young couple once long time ago. Before I start to serve ,young man said "We are student and only have $20 each for the sushi. We love sushi but only be able to eat once a month" I gave them $ 40 worth sushi each. They became regular every month for 2 yrs untill they moved away. 3yrs later they came back and told me" Sky is the limit". Sat Nov 29 15:31:32 -0800 2008 4208630 242861 bigtuna27 3 4209065 Bigtuna Sensei or Taisho, you are definitely my kind of guy and chef. A shame I live so much far north from you, I'd love to visit your restaurant and eat your sushi. It would be so fun and interesting. There is one Japanese mannerism that is a hot potato and pet peeve of many nihonjin, and that is a lot of Japanese customers prefer to have their miso shiru (miso soup) at the end of the meal (and if it is given to them any earlier, they get upset), but by default all non Japanese customers either get their miso soup with their set dinner at the same time, or before that. I ate at Sushi Sasabune in Oahu 6 years ago, and the waiter said no to a request to my wife who wanted miso soup early on, but was ok to have it at the end (which in a way signaled the end of the meal). The head itamae there was upset that he did not know we ordered soup for her, but I continued the omakase (or forced menu if you will) a little further. So when you serve omakase, at what point do you introduce the soup, or does it depend on whether your regular customer is Japanese (or eats like one) or not? Do you find that customers who have Japanese-like tastebuds tend to prefer shiromi, or is that not a general rule? And how do you feel about chefs who serve pre-sliced fish? Sign of amateur? Many restaurants where I live do this too, to ensure consistency, and also out of pure laziness.... (is it true that Nozawa-san and maybe one of the Sasabune guys serve pre-sliced fish?) Maybe we are getting into controversial topic here. Sat Nov 29 19:30:13 -0800 2008 4208696 12872 K K 4 4209268 Thank you. But lucky me I can avoid embarresment ha ha. Miso soup; For Japanese at the end of or middle sometime, For american at first. It's just the diffrence in food culture there. We have to plese customer. Most of [99%] is american so you figure out. i know sasabune. I bet head chef will serve soup first for your wife. The waiter made big mistake. They are there to please customer not to look down on them. well it's up to the customer. Some ask shiromi w/ solt and lemon. Some prefer no sauce. And some asks tuna butsu or tako butsu. Every customer who is into sushi tend to show off Japanese like style. Pre slicing is only to save labor. So that less chef can serve more sushi. Cheaper place tend to do that. Good sushi chef is expensive and have attitude. I had so many bad expierience hiring those. By the way my place is not grumet place. I just got the job 2 months ago. so far I made temporaly menu so that I can figure out what they want. I'm thinking about changing from next year. Do you ever hard about "sousaku"? it means original.I'm going to serve every fish w/sauce. like semi OMAKASE but you can indibidually order only sauce part is chef's choice. What do you think? Sat Nov 29 22:47:25 -0800 2008 4209065 242861 bigtuna27 5 4209288 I'm the last person you should be asking for advice, haha! There are only two sushi restaurants in my area that offer pre-saucing of nigiri (a la carte, or okonomi), but also do the exact same thing for omakase. One restaurant I have already mentioned that is a personal favorite of mine, because their special sauce (konbu dashi shoyu) is light but fantastic (and finger licking good, no offense to KFC) and is only applied to lighter flavored fish (hikarimono and shiromi) to enhance the goodness. The other place, well they drown the neta with not just sauce but over powering condiments (seriously good tairagai and hotate nigiri should not need any aburi blow torching, doused with a salty ponzu and yuzu tobiko, that is overkill). A big shame, they offer a lot of exotic fish not available elsewhere, but totally destroy their flavor with too much sauce and toppings, it is like pizzafication of nigiri (also they put a ton of chopped raw onions on top of fresh katuso not seared, then drown in ponzu). Also as you say, what is your target audience/customer. If most of them prefer the big fast food rolls and Nobu Matsuhisa type fusion and heavy flavored sauces, then maybe it will work out for you. Or you may want to do what Sasabune does...they have (A)merican omakase and (J)apanese omakase, but instead maybe it could be an idea for you to offer (A)merican saucing or (J)apanese saucing option (or maybe a (F)usion one). Maybe American or Fusion saucing, you could use srirracha on albacore (haha), or a few drops of Ngoc Mam (Vietnamese fish sauce) on something else maybe a cold juicy prawn (if you can find a use for ketchup and make it work you are a genius). Make a konbu dashi with varying thickness and tones for the Japanese saucing option, perhaps a su-miso or uni su-miso mix for lighter flavored fish and shellfish (e.g. scallops), and have some balsamic ready for another fusion application. Then again, even just a little bit of sauce, might just be too much. So forget most of what I said heh heh. Sat Nov 29 23:23:13 -0800 2008 4209268 12872 K K 6 4209302 my recent cliation. Seard salmon topped w/pico de gallo and masturd soy dressing. It sound weard but taste fantastic Sat Nov 29 23:48:42 -0800 2008 4209288 242861 bigtuna27 7 4210388 Mustard soy sauce dressing, as in karashi? Other than buta no kakuni, hiyashi chuka soba, tonkatsu and the usual suspects, has karashi been used with sushi before? Mastur'd....that sounds naughty if spelt that way! Sun Nov 30 16:17:48 -0800 2008 4209302 12872 K K 8 4210605 No. Those are simply chinese mustard. Mine was mustard,soy sauce and other ingridients. more like salad dressing. Sun Nov 30 18:16:32 -0800 2008 4210388 242861 bigtuna27 8 4210616 You got it wrong. Those are just diluted chinese mustard. Mine is mustard ,soy sauce and other ingridients. Like salad dressing. Sun Nov 30 18:25:35 -0800 2008 4210388 242861 bigtuna27 8 4257125 i've had a spicy mustard soy sauce droplet on top of ika... it was quite good. there was a sushi shop i dropped into in osaka by chance and was amazed at the individual sauces concocted for the various types of fish he served. we did a cheap omakase there (though i really wish we offered more in retrospect) and there was only a small droplet at most on each piece of fish. items like unagi received the regular swish of sauce on top. reading this thread gives me the impression that it was edging towards fusion but the minute amount of sauce perhaps was to remain respectful to the ingredients. Thu Dec 18 11:09:17 -0800 2008 4210388 10634 pinstripeprincess 3 4209321 Do sushiyas ever finish with either chahan or ramen? Chahan is my favorite after drinking beer and shochu all night, but that's at an Izakaya, not necessarily sushi. I think there have been nights spent eating sushi that I would have loved a small bowl of ramen noodles. Sun Nov 30 00:33:20 -0800 2008 4208696 10312 applehome 4 4209771 Good luck Sun Nov 30 09:51:11 -0800 2008 4209321 242861 bigtuna27 1 4212414 What is the history and story behind Temari sushi? For those that don't know, Nijiya Supermarket now carries them in their pre-made deli foods section. It's a miniature golf ball sized sushi rice pad with a little bit of fish on top. A quick English net search shows that it originated in Kyoto and was originally made as little non edible toys for kids, but seems a bit wacky. Some izakayas are offering it too. Is the rice preparation different for this style? Mon Dec 01 13:24:53 -0800 2008 4197048 12872 K K 2 4212456 It's just one of saiku sushi. Noyhing special about. Usually use shrimp kohada etc.Most of the use is special occasion party plate or sushi skill contest. I think Nijiya did it because easier to teach amigos. Temari means ancient style balls for kid to play with. Chechk on under Temari sushi or saiku sushi. Mon Dec 01 13:35:15 -0800 2008 4212414 242861 bigtuna27 3 4212550 Saiku? Or do you mean saikyo, as in "west of capital"? But you know what's funny, the nigiri combo at Nijiya, at least the one near my work, the nigiri in that box looks like giant big giant temari (but out of proportion). So yeah you're right, in essence you are paying for cuteness with temari sushi combo. Mon Dec 01 14:06:15 -0800 2008 4212456 12872 K K 4 4212636 Saiku. Detail worked. Mon Dec 01 14:44:12 -0800 2008 4212550 242861 bigtuna27 1 4213844 Wow, this thread is huge O_O Unfortunately, my favorite sushi bar closed, and the others aren't as good, so I rarely have it anymore T_T I'd always get 2 tuna nigiri (my favorite!) and then usually 2 of something else. Each one was two big mouthfuls. One time, we tried their special mix, and I was suprised that I liked the smoked eel (I've had it since at other places, but not as good), although I'm not a fan of squid. I don't like california rolls (futomaki?) and sashimi isn't really filling enough. It was interesting what you say about dipping sushi etc; the flavour is so delicate that I never used any soy sauce with it, and the first person I ever saw dipping wasabi in the soy was my girlfriend - then she put ginger on. If I ever do that (unlikely) I always eat at least half of it ordinary. *edit* check this out; the chef at my favorite sushi bar was the only one in the country licensed to serve blowfish O_O must have been pretty good. Tue Dec 02 04:24:59 -0800 2008 4197048 180623 Soop 1 4213859 Hmmm. All I can find out is that he is "Jean-Paul Oliver" and he trained under a Japanese Master at somewhere called Shangri-la hotel. the restaurant was Sukoshi in Bristol England. Tue Dec 02 04:32:47 -0800 2008 4197048 180623 Soop 2 4215270 the per son have Fugu license is the chef under Fugu chef. it's hard to learn and very risky. Here in LA. About 20 yrs ago. One guy had that license and working for sushi bar owned by Chinese guy. One day his regular brought in fresh fugu caught in local water and asked him to work on it since those regular were close friend of owner. He refused and explained why. but he was foeced to do. 2 of those regulars died 2 hrs later. The chef went jail. Restaurant was'ny accused any wrong doing. WHAT I WANT TO SAY HERE is. Even it's the same kind of fugu ,may be it's body structure is different. If you fillet those with same way we do in Japan, you may make mistakes. That's the reason this chef refused. Or may be it had poison in different part of his body. All of you groumet this is warning. Don't even try this to the restaurant you go. Just go to Fugu restaurant. Better safe than dead. Tue Dec 02 13:33:05 -0800 2008 4213859 242861 bigtuna27 3 4215420 Maybe you and others can properly clarify this for us. All wild caught fugu from Japan (Shimonoseki) that are exported to the US goes through customs in NY (JFK?). There is a factory shall we say that cleans and guts out the entrails and insides before vaccum packing and is certified to be properly detoxified. This is a likely sign why some sushi restaurants in the US (according to list of US restaurants that can legally serve fugu) are cleared to serve fugu, all they have to do is defrost the flash-frozen fish and prep, another clue why for example, Shiki restaurant in Seattle requires an advanced 24 hour reservation for fugu teishoku, plus the whole fish needs to be consumed, so you can't just pay $16 to have fugu nigiri. But the whole myth of oh, I have tingling feeling in my lips sounds like BS, and that if you are feeling that after eating at that restaurant, you are gambling wiht your life (when in fact it is safe if the source of the fugu is where I described). When some US sushi chefs say they are certified and have fugu license, chances are they are working with factory processed vaccum packed cleaned fish, unless he is Masa Takayama having some special arrangment to legally and properly serve wild whole fugu (Urasawa did this before and got heavily fined according to some past reports). But you're right, to really experience fugu, go to Japan, Shimonoseki, Nagoya etc to a proper and well known fugu specialty restaurant and eat the entire meal. Tue Dec 02 14:19:28 -0800 2008 4215270 12872 K K 4 4215602 Oh my God. You know everything. I don't know some restaurant have special agreement with FDA to import or prepare fresh whole Fugu, There may be. But it's not H.d 's issue here. FDA covers whole U.S.A. So far in my knowledge FDA prohibit to import it. Vaccume packed, pre cleaned fugu is the farm grown one. . Fugu doesn't produce poisn. They eat shell fish produce poisn like star fish and keep that in their brad . I hard it was self diffence purpose. There for farm grown one doesn't have poisn. And this kind is the only one permitted to import by FDA as fugu.There is another fish taste like or meat look lie fugu[ we call tyhis Horse face]. this is also permitted to import.Horse face is a lot cheaper by the way. Even though farm grown one,it's still hard to get. So that's the reason for 24hr reservation. 10 yrs ago my friend had fugu dinner with his 3 friend at famous restaurant then. which owned by my other friend. Cost them $ 1000 per person. He loved it. I laught. He got conned. If you can spend $ 1000 for dinner, you can go Japan eat real fugu dinner for $ 100~200 and spend couple days sight seeing for $ 1000. Because I know he didn't eat wild one. If fugu doesn't have poisn,it isn't worth eating. Scorpin has same texture and taste better. I would spend money on wild caught Japanese snapper. Tue Dec 02 15:23:41 -0800 2008 4215420 242861 bigtuna27 5 4215700 I actually saw a documentary or food show aired locally (from Hong Kong) where these pimp VIP chefs travel to exotic parts of the world just to secure high end ingredients for their restaurants, they made a trip to Kyushu and to Shimonseki and actually stayed at a ryokan and had fugu teishoku at a specialty restaurant. They even went fishing on the boats, spent 3 to 6 hours and only caught one or two fish. They later showed the processing factory later where the cleaning and processing were done (every worker there is fugu certified) but I am not sure if that is the same factory used for US export. Just saying what I saw. I thought most of the "deaths" from eating contaminated fugu was from fugu no kimo (the liver) where improper cutting could lead to the blood contaminating the raw liver, which some say is the best part. The safer alternative is to source kawahagi (filefish) where the raw liver is safe to eat as "gu" or topping. I just want to know if I am wrong about the importation of pre-gutted and cleaned fugu going into the US at these authorized sushi restaurants.Masa is not listed as one of them. The local izakaya south of where I work supposedly offered it a year or two ago around this time of year and did say Shimonoseki, wild, and cleaned/gutted, the chef owner supposedly trained at Hinode classically in Ginza. At $150 ish a person maybe it is better to fly to Japan to have it. Shiki was quoting a similar price, but only included sashi (raw slices), nabe (hot pot), and a few pieces of the fried stuff. Tue Dec 02 15:59:34 -0800 2008 4215602 12872 K K 6 4215739 Japanese WIKI on fugu - http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%B2%B3%E8%B1%9A Translation of above site in English http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fja.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F%25E6%25B2%25B3%25E8%25B1%259A&sl=ja&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 Tue Dec 02 16:13:18 -0800 2008 4215700 12872 K K 6 4215855 What ever you saw on TV probably for Japan. It may be true and safe. Kawahagi is what I called Horse face. I'm pretty sure FDA stil hasn't permitted yet. But my friend used to work for me is planning to import fugu from Japan. I guess it's prosessed. He said it may take 1 yr or so to get permit. $ 150 is alot cheaper than $ 1000 in LA. Don't you think? You can laugh too. ha ha Tue Dec 02 16:59:32 -0800 2008 4215700 242861 bigtuna27 1 4217680 ive asked this before with no real definite answeer.....ive recently starteed eeating sushi and at my usual place i go i order a "sashii roll" with avocado, crab, spsicy tuna, yellowtail, and salmon all wrapped in cucumber(no rice and its a rather big roll, and i also order a vegetable roll whih is also a good size. when i order this they always give me 2 sets of chopsticks and this makes me wonder is this a lot for one person to eat (2 good size rolls) i know its a dub question but being a novice as i a im just wondering Wed Dec 03 10:59:15 -0800 2008 4197048 139484 senorbob06969 2 4217884 I don't know why eather. May be one for right hand and other one is for left hand. ha ha. Wed Dec 03 12:05:50 -0800 2008 4217680 242861 bigtuna27 2 4217987 Is this carry-out or eating-in at the restaurant? Wed Dec 03 12:34:43 -0800 2008 4217680 12873 OCAnn 1 4218136 You can see a big range here - from crazy American maki (Sashii - I love that - maybe as in yasashii...) to nare sushi. It's a great thread - thanks for starting it and answering everybody. What do you think of the whole idea of the sushi police and the Japanese Ministry for Agriculture trying to maintain standards around the world? I know that it fell by the wayside a couple of years ago, and that the JRO's position is virtually the opposite of the Ministries efforts. But do you think that some effort needs to be made, as the US is just filling up with non-Japanese, asian-run sushi in Chinese and other asian restaurants? I'm not as concerned with creativity as I am with quality. I mentioned before, serving ahi as a generic tuna - this is commonplace. Butsu-giri, pre-sliced pieces served on dry rice - this is commonplace. Those of us that know the difference don't go to these places, but Americans are being taught what sushi is by chinese restauraunt cooks that were frying egg foo young yesterday, or "have been trained by a Japanese chef" - I love that line - for how many years? I'm not talking about the sushi bullies or sushi nazi's although, ultimately, that's where this sort of thing goes. But I'm just talking about the entry level. Is something necessary? Some sort of certification or license or proof of ability and quality? Wed Dec 03 13:32:17 -0800 2008 4197048 10312 applehome 2 4218473 This is America.land of everything goes. Policing is not nessesally I think. People get in to sushi by chance. Like you guys, those people happened to like it more and get curius, then they will end up this thread and may be learn one or two. It's frastrates you some time though. I agree. just don't go those places. Ha ha Wed Dec 03 15:13:40 -0800 2008 4218136 242861 bigtuna27 1 4219464 Ok, I have a question; if my favorite sushi is tuna nigiri, then say seabass nigiri (I tend to like nigiri more) what other sushi might I like? On a different note, I LOVE gyoza/dim sum too, in case that has any refelection. Oh, and just say I was to make my own sushi at home, do you have a simple recipe? Or can this not be done? Thu Dec 04 01:56:30 -0800 2008 4197048 180623 Soop 2 4219573 Just as a matter of differentiating cuisine, dim sum isn't Japanese. Is this important? It is, as a cultural heritage, if nothing else. But it also reflects the palate and the food. Sushi is a highly specialized food that was developed and refined in Japan. I know that you were just providing points of reference, but you might as well have said I like Spaghetti Bolognese. Thu Dec 04 05:07:27 -0800 2008 4219464 10312 applehome 3 4219888 I was thinking about the fact that they're the same size, based on the same principles of ying/yang (protein and carbohydrate) and they tend to be eaten with soy sauce/ginger etc. They just kind of group together in my mind. I have no idea if there is any sushi that would be at all similar to gyoza, but I'm fairly certain there aren't any that would resemble spagetti Bolognese. although I could be wrong! :D Thu Dec 04 07:57:37 -0800 2008 4219573 180623 Soop 4 4220077 Hi. This is the answer to your fiest Qs. You seems like food in small bite size. This may be because you are born to eat variety of food like Japanese .This could be a proof that you ment to be groumet. Ha ha If you like Tuna Sea bass you may like Japanese red snapper, Japanese scallops or Albacore. Buy the sushi book. You can do it at home ,if you don't mind practice a lot. good luck Thu Dec 04 09:13:48 -0800 2008 4219888 242861 bigtuna27 4 4220489 Well then, you might enjoy inarizushi - sushi rice in a small "bag" of aburage - a fried skin of soy protein. For me, it is that "group together in my mind" that gaijin often express that is on the brink of being culturally insensitive, that bothers me so much. They think oriental is oriental, and it applies to people, food, philosophy... It is what is leading to Americanized sushi served in Chinese and Korean restaurants. Americans can't tell one Asian from another. I admire BT's ability to laugh at it, and ultimately, there is nothing else to do, as there's certainly no way to change it. If I lived in LA or NYC, it would be easier to ignore - just concentrate on the real stuff, as there's plenty of it around. But living in the burbs as I do, surrounded by such poor quality sushi made by generic asians, which is a direct result of the American marketplace demands that don't differentiate by quality, I have a hard time putting up with what I perceive as cultural insensitivity. There is so little authentic, good sushi around. And indeed, the same place that serves dim sum may be serving sushi. In truth, dim sum, at least in the form of shumai, is well estalished in Japanese cuisine. Yokohama, where I grew up, is the chinatown of the entire Tokyo bay megalopolis, it was the original foreigners quarter. The shumai at the Yokohama-eki (train station) is famous - and indeed delicious - not to be missed. I grew up thinking of it as a delicious food that my parents brought home once in a while - a real treat. I never knew it was Chinese, or dim sum, until I came here. So much for cultural sensitivity. But back to sushi - it's refinement is uniquely Japanese. It's not that noone else could possibly make good sushi, it's that noone else has it as such a strong cultural, traditional element - with centuries of understanding the techniques, the ingredients, the discipline and training required to make it right. Small round protein/carb could be a slider or cheese and crackers, so it's a pretty meaningless grouping - and yin/yang is Chinese philosophy - taoism. Concentrate on sushi. The vinegar and seasoning of the rice, it's texture and flavor are unique and kick off so many firing points into the brain. Everything else is an add-on - some mighty delicious add-ons, to be sure, but it starts with the su-shi. Thu Dec 04 11:17:18 -0800 2008 4219888 10312 applehome 5 4220721 Do you remenber " Kiyouken" The famous shoumai in Yokohama and all of Japan. All the foreign food imported to Japan as a part of culture people brought in, we tend to refine it into more delicate taste. Some time i compare chinese shumai and japanese one,I feel japanese are stingy on ingridients. but may be i'm wrong. Just may be. ha ha couple years ago friends of mine who is director, shoot the documentary film about dimsum. Finally she finished edditing and may come out as tv special or part of at least. Keep your finger crossed because I'm in it. You may start form my fan club ha ha. about our food culture; We are farmers so we don't go any where. We just stay in same area so that we could develope very sencitive refined taste bad. Also we have very different 4 seasons. It help us too. Europian is basically hunters. They have to keep moving chaising thier play. In order to have good food ,they developed sauces. So that they can carry along. Thu Dec 04 12:44:05 -0800 2008 4220489 242861 bigtuna27 6 4222214 Yeah, what you're saying is very true. French quisine traditionally places high importance on sauces, and allows a chef to demonstaate his ability. Traditionally, it's probably the nearest thing to the refinement of some type of Japanese cooking. OK, I have a question (and I hope I don't sound rude): if the guy that invented sushi was a drop out who only learned to prepare rice and fish, and then opened the sushi stand, surely all the refinement of sushi and tradition came from that point? So 50 years later, mr X develops a new technique, and this is more popular etc etc. At what point is tradition replaced by new techniques? Certainly it must have happened several times, and certainly there must be sub standard Sushi places in Japan? Fri Dec 05 01:42:30 -0800 2008 4220721 180623 Soop 7 4223184 Hi. I don't know exactry when it started. You can ask Silverjey or KK they know better than me. I think very original one started around 600 century. 1st Nare sushi, 2nd Hako sushi {Kansai style] then modern style [ which is the base of what we eat now] as a 3rd. With in modern style; They made it restaurant in late Edo era. Around WW 2 refregerator was invented so zuke style started to dissapier. Prior that they used only local fish in order to serve fresh fish. Then they start to eat more fish comes from distance like Tuna. After the WW2 they start to eat Toro because of commercal refregration system improved sagnificantly and foreigh food infulence [Fattier food]. 50 yrs ago in Boston where atlantic blue fin came in, they were giving toro part to pigs. Can you believe? So what I'm saying that sushi is also part of food culture we have now. It is keep changing. Ex. Big fat special roll. I saw it on Food show on travel channel few days ago. Tv chef was making rolls made with shreded porl,rice and tapioka paper. He called them Texas sushi. ha ha ha Who knows in 10~20 yrs later what will it become. For the last Q, check internet for " Sousaku sushi" Fri Dec 05 10:40:12 -0800 2008 4222214 242861 bigtuna27 8 4223261 B.Tuna, can you provide more detail on post WWII refrigeration stuff. This came up in another thread, but the author said it had to do with Japanese household freezers. Not sure why...In Japan, I got used to eating zuke lunch stuff on days when Tsukiji is closed. My impression is that zuke is made from leftovers. Also, can you give me the author, publisher of your sushi book in Japanese? I'm interested in other resources. Fri Dec 05 11:01:46 -0800 2008 4223184 10903 Silverjay 9 4223702 Just to clarify- I meant made from leftovers these days, not traditionally. Fri Dec 05 13:10:53 -0800 2008 4223261 10903 Silverjay 10 4223887 Before Zuke was the way to preserve tuna[locally caught]. Not to season it.Zuke became seasoning technic lately because to provide some thing different. but most of the time to get lid of older tuna. because it help to hide old flavor and color. Enjoy day old tuna ha ha Fri Dec 05 14:13:21 -0800 2008 4223702 242861 bigtuna27 8 4223314 I'm terrible at history. Leave that to Silverjay. I'm sure there was a lot of innovation along the way since the food stall turned restaurant, and many spin-off's like it. Maybe not as well documented online, but I'm sure there are other resources out there. If anything there is a seeming revival of old style techniques amongst the chefs who wish to continue to pursue it (many of the high end places in the USA and Japan are already doing it). Some of the techniques has already been discussed across this whole thread. New-new techniques? More like new technology. Brace yourselves for this one, as there are Japanese made machines/robots that automate the entire sushi making process. Search around youtube and you will find sales demo videos. There's one subsidiary in Chicago that is used for North American sales. No idea how much it costs but I'm scared for the future of this cuisine. Machines dedicated to making sushi rice. Machines dedicated to making rolls of most sorts (you provide nori, rice ingredients. and the scariest of them all you provide sliced raw fish and rice. A machine compacts and makes cookie cutter style molded nigiri shari. You just put the fish on top (some machines might do it for you. And presto, a machine made nigiri. This is already in use across Japan at sushi boat/conveyor belt places (kaiten-zushi). One can only imagine when this is mass deployed worldwide when it becomes more affordable than hiring some random Chinese, Korean, Thai, or other non Japanese person to be a fast creative sushi maker. Also classically trained sushi chefs, mom and pop type sushi places (neighborhood joints), and those that get handed down either generation to generation, or from one grand master to another (starting off as dishwashers and cleaners) are quickly disappearing from what I'm told in Japan. Lots of chains popping up, or conglomerates owning big shares and being able to buy massive quantities of fresh fish in bulk and in volume. I don't know how true this is, but I would guess that a large volume buyer over time has a better line of credit overall than an average mom and pop shop independently owned place. I can only imagine how difficult it is for a new classically trained sushi chef person in his 30s or so trying to open up an independent shop, if such competition exists. He has to be more than REALLY good to survive. Big Tuna san is right. Post WW2 is when Japanese people started developing a taste and appreciation for fatty (toro that is) and some argue that the introduction and popularization of French cuisine into Japan is partly to blame for the increase in human toro consumption. I heard it used to be fed to cats, which is why akami/dorsal fin red meat tuna used to be way more expensive than belly. But yeah isn't it odd that back in the day, pigs and farm animals ate better than humans? Toro and even okara (the byproduct of making tofu, rich in nutritients) were animal stock/feed. But you ask most sushi chefs, most of them want to be reincarnated as Kobe beef, get massaged every day, listen to music, fed beer and good quality grains, no exercise. (most of that is a myth I hear but fun to use as sushi bar conversation). Fri Dec 05 11:17:50 -0800 2008 4223184 12872 K K 9 4224102 you know a lot.KK. those machines are first introduced in USA in early 90's. as a matter of fact,I used it for a while. it wasn't FDA approved then. so whent HD came in we hid it with table cloth. Ha ha It cost as mech as mercedes E-class then. We had huge volume of sushi biz and not much space to spread help around. It was faster than help and didn't take break eather haha. Honestly chef like me is 3 times faster than sushi machine. A lot of low end place is widely useing it now. And machine was improved and got cheaperbut sushi bar is not eating sushi but enjoy conversation with chefs and other customers too. Average plus sushi bar still needs human touch. It's like regular bar. You can't talk to machine. Wait they may invent sushi robot which talks ha ha. About Toro. You are right. western food culture influenced some how. Like when we open the door and Meiji era started we started eat beef a lot. Not only Toro but here in USA ,we think purple potato is a groumet thing. Those are pig's food not long time a go. What will come next ?Story about Kobe beef is true. I'm from kobe so I know. BF tuna has been farm raised more than 10 years now. They catch young one and keep them in secluded bay or net out in the ocean. No excercize there. When will they start massage them? Fri Dec 05 15:51:03 -0800 2008 4223314 242861 bigtuna27 10 4224177 Why don't you just create a robot that massages the farm tuna?...... Question: Can you get buri in California? Like real buri, not farm raised hamachi, but wild caught adult yellowtail? Just curious. Also, what exactly do you consider "hamachi" to be? I've heard that there are differences between Kansai and Kanto regarding the names of different yellowtail ages (inada, warasa, etc.) and wild/farmed. Sorry, this is just my sakana-otaku interest. I ask the same question to all sushi chefs. The answer is sometimes different based on where the chef is from... Fri Dec 05 16:27:41 -0800 2008 4224102 10903 Silverjay 11 4224235 No It's very hard. You got those name right. Fri Dec 05 16:58:09 -0800 2008 4224177 242861 bigtuna27 11 4224496 Siilverjay, according to people I have spoken to, if you (as a restaurant owner) are willing to pay and have an account with the big wholesalers like IMP and True World (and other sources), and depending on what is in season and available for purchase, you could theoretically get high end and exotic fish of all sorts. The question is whether there is a market for it, and what profit you could make on top of the high cost to procure. As far as buri, there's a variant called kanburi that I've seen a very small handful of restaurants get for sushi in Northern California, imported from Japan of course. Last year when I was visiting Taiwan, on cable TV where they air Japan TV programs subtitled in Chinese, there was a in the studio cooking show, where they used kanburi but only for shabu shabu / nabemono. Swish Swish, dip in ponzu and it's a great way to enjoy it. Fri Dec 05 19:17:39 -0800 2008 4224177 12872 K K 12 4224530 Yeah, kan buri is 寒ぶり in Japanese (although buri does have it's own kanji). It means, as you probably can read better than I can, winter buri. In Japanese, this refers to winter, wild caught adult yellow tail. The most prized of which is from the Sea of Japan- especially off the Noto Peninsula, where they fatten up nicely thanks to the wacky ocean currents. Let me tell you that kan buri makes some of the best sashimi you can eat. It can be marbled in fat and equally as melty. The sushi, although not my favorite, is comparable to maguro chu toro. But shabu shabu is also popular, although I've yet to try. I've seen buri here in New York at Kanoyama last winter. Since there is always confusion over the term "yellowtail" and since "hamachi" refers to both a particular age/sized yellowtail as well as a particular farm-raised variant (possibly two different types of fish actually), the whole yellowtail thing can become very confusing as to what you are actually getting in the U.S. I'm not ashamed to admit that part of the motivation behind my trip to Kanazawa in a few weeks is to partake in kan buri. Also, I eat teriyaki buri and buri daikon as pretty standard winter dishes. Fri Dec 05 19:38:00 -0800 2008 4224496 10903 Silverjay 13 4224562 Any wild Japanese hamachi or yellowtail/buri is really really really hard to come by for most US run Japanese restaurants. Most of the time your avg neighborhood sushi bar at least in Northern California will use the farmed variety and who knows where it is really from even though the packaging has Japanese characters on it. Fri Dec 05 20:09:46 -0800 2008 4224530 12872 K K 13 4224786 Silverjay. hats off to you and your knowledge. Fri Dec 05 23:40:20 -0800 2008 4224530 242861 bigtuna27 12 4224781 Not True world. Please. Fri Dec 05 23:36:51 -0800 2008 4224496 242861 bigtuna27 13 4224790 Big Tuna Sensei, are you against True World because of the Koryo connection? I can understand... Fri Dec 05 23:42:37 -0800 2008 4224781 12872 K K 14 4225936 No. I don't care for their religion. Simply bad quality fish. I had to use them for 1 1/2 yr. I can't stand thier quality. sales person was very nice though. IMP ,La fish and Pacific california are the best we have here. For american fish co, Santa monica sea foos is best all around fish supplier. Funny story is all of them think I'm the A H. It's a benefit for my customer. ha ha Sat Dec 06 15:59:42 -0800 2008 4224790 242861 bigtuna27 15 4226168 I am curious, though, about True World Foods - how big are they? They're owned by the Unification Church (Moonies) who were at one time major Sushi purveyors - they still own several places in the Boston area, including one near me in Chelmsford, MA. They still own fishing fleets in Gloucester and in Alaska. Do you see them as major players still in the US sushi market? Sat Dec 06 18:12:28 -0800 2008 4225936 10312 applehome 16 4226301 i don't know how big they are. I just know by my expierience. sucks. Sat Dec 06 19:37:21 -0800 2008 4226168 242861 bigtuna27 16 4226304 True World's website http://www.trueworldfoods.com/index.php They run weekly ads in one of our local Japanese circulars (BaySpo) and make it sound like they have their own fish buyers at Tsukiji and can source fish from all 4 or so major fish markets in Japan. Big Tuna-san, have you tried sourcing kindai maguro, the sustainably farmed bluefin tuna from Kinki University, Japan, for use at sushi bars, and if you have tried it, what do you think? (I will tell you my opinion of it after your answer) There's a myth that yes only a few are produced each year and only big shot places like The French Laundry, Masa, major fancy hotels can get them, but apparently some channels have made it available to others. Sat Dec 06 19:38:50 -0800 2008 4226168 12872 K K 17 4226577 I didn't know until you told me.i serched and read about kindai maguro. It was farm grown from egg and fed very selected safe bait[ no macury], It's meat is almost toro and not much red meat. Seems like kobe beef in fish form. When first farm grow Bf came in the market, it was from Australia. And was based on Minami maguro. There for 3/4 of meat was toro. Very rich but didn't last long. 1~2 days the most. it dissapiered and Spanish one came in after few years. This one was closed to wild one as toro contents. But flavor was weaker than natural one. In winter time this one is comnnly used now. I still think N Atlantic natural one is the best in flavor. it is just my guess but farm grown one is luck of exersize so fattier but less flavor and weaker. Like one of those fat kids you see now adays ha ha Sun Dec 07 00:13:25 -0800 2008 4226304 242861 bigtuna27 18 4227769 The one good thing about eating the fat kids is that they are easy to catch. Sun Dec 07 16:03:54 -0800 2008 4226577 10195 KTinNYC 10 4224188 Well knowledge is out there, you just have to go look for it. Youtube is fun if you search for words like sushi but you get even better results if you search using Japanese/kanji like 寿司 or the more classical 鮨 . I believe if you search for sushi robot on youtube you will likely get one of those nigiri and sushi making machines. I think you can only massage fish once they are dead. If you can massage them while alive and in the water, you are in the wrong line of work! Big Tuna San, when did the first kaitensushi open in Los Angeles, and was it conveyor belt or a sushi "boat". I can't remember when was the first in Northern Calfiornia, but for San Francisco it was probably the Isobune chain in mid 80s or so. Fri Dec 05 16:34:12 -0800 2008 4224102 12872 K K 11 4224239 it opened in SF first. Few people tried but failed. It was convairbelt type. May be still one exsist in Little Tokyo. Fri Dec 05 17:00:05 -0800 2008 4224188 242861 bigtuna27 6 4222234 "Europeans" were originally hunters and gatherers, which was a nomadic way of life. However, once they figured out how to domesticate animals, they became farmers. That happened a very very long time ago. The primary difference in Japanese and European diets comes from the geophysical differences and proximity to the sea. How far is the farthest any Japanese village is from the sea? Not far by European standards! So the European diet was centered around meat, cheese, wheat, and vegetables. The Japanese diet is centered around rice, vegetables, and fish, with some beef and no traditional cheese. But BOTH cultures developed and use a wide variety of sauces. Think of shoyu as the Japanese equivalent of ketchup. '-) Fri Dec 05 02:33:39 -0800 2008 4220721 112096 Caroline1 7 4222260 This is true! Fri Dec 05 03:41:19 -0800 2008 4222234 180623 Soop 7 4223211 We have world famous stinky "Natto" for the replacement of cheese. And your favorite tofu. But you got the point too. Fri Dec 05 10:45:10 -0800 2008 4222234 242861 bigtuna27 8 4224024 No natto for me, please. But I do like tofu! Good stuff! Fri Dec 05 15:09:49 -0800 2008 4223211 112096 Caroline1 7 4223978 wait, wait... you're comparing shoyu to bechamel and bearnaise? My youngest brother's insistence on putting ketchup all over my mother's incredible gyoza every time we had it was a source of great angst in our family. I think that there's more to it than just ingredients. What - the Mediterranean has no fish? How similar is Italian to Japanese? What's the difference there? Japanese have developed a cultural introspection of what goes on the plate and into the mouth that is deeper than most cultures. There is a desire to get food "right" - not just in the sense of a particular recipe or method, but in a cultural sense. Perhaps this is a unique development from the years of isolation - something Europe never had. These years of isolation were followed by the onslaught of foreign culture - where the application of the inward development of the values and techniques that were created to enhance them, to yoshoku (gaijin food) insured that the best fried battered food is Tempura, from Japan, and not something from Portugal, where it originated. There are equivalents of 6 years of apprenticeship in a sushiya in the guilds of charcuteriers and bakers in Europe, so the value of quality and passing on tradition may in and of itself be equivalent. But where this was a factor of commerce in Europe, it was more about cultural values in Japan. That's not to say that sushi (and other great cuisine) wasn't mainly developed as the business class grew in stature - it was. But the cultural values were established before them. To Soop's point, Sushi changes - of course - everything does. In that interview with Jiro that KK linked to in one of our threads, he talks about what changes are going to have to be made even now, as ingredients change in availability. Substitutions become set menus over time. And even form is changed within the bounds of tradition. But foreign countries present entirely new marketplace demands - and a delicious soft taco with carnitas is in danger of becoming hamburger in a crispy shell. Creative Itamae needing customers in LA may invent california rolls - but because this is satisfying American needs, and not Japanese cultural traditions, it's not necessarily going to be accepted as one of the traditional paths that a food might travel on. Fri Dec 05 14:46:27 -0800 2008 4222234 10312 applehome 8 4224013 wait, wait... you're comparing shoyu to bechamel and bearnaise? ....................................................................applehome Nope. Ketchup! '-) Fri Dec 05 15:04:56 -0800 2008 4223978 112096 Caroline1 8 4224454 Very good analization. Since you mention Tempura. I have a quiz. Where is that word came from? Fri Dec 05 18:52:14 -0800 2008 4223978 242861 bigtuna27 9 4224544 Portuguese, right? "Tempero"? Fri Dec 05 19:52:15 -0800 2008 4224454 10832 Humbucker 10 4224793 Answer is; When Portguese stayed in Japan they were priest and they lived in the temple. They introduced us Flitter. So people liked that and copied the food priest had in temple. They started call it Templa. Get it? I assume it was vegetable. Fri Dec 05 23:47:20 -0800 2008 4224544 242861 bigtuna27 9 4224574 I just thought it was a Portuguese word - from a latin root. I remember reading the legend about Tokugawa Ieyasu dying from eating too much Tempura. I don't know if that's true. That's better than the legend of Miyamoto Musashi dying of eating fugu liver to challenge the gods, although he really died of cancer. Fri Dec 05 20:21:28 -0800 2008 4224454 10312 applehome 5 4220807 For make-at-home, I'm taken with the notion of temari sushi. Here's a webbpage with photos of some you can order "to go" when passing through Narita Airport in Tokyo: http://qlliner.com/shop/products/detail.php?product_id=3 You make them by placing your "topping" on a square of Saran wrap, then a dab of wasabi if you like, then add your sushi rice, gather up the plastic wrap and twist it to force everything into a tight little ball, unwrap and voila! You have a large sushi marble! I have some canape cutters that are in flower, diamond, circle, square, all sorts of shapes. I;m thinking it would be fun to cut flower shapes, then maybe after it's out of the plastic, instead of wasabi under the "topping," maybe a "wasabi pea" type cracker as the center of the flower -- I have some that have a heavy bite to them! A new and interesting crunch. Who needs tempura in their sushi! Part of the reason I like this idea so much is it provides portion control.. I'm thinking about the size of a largish but not huge gum ball. Don't want a golf ball size. That's too big for one bite. It sounds like a lot more work than nigiri sushi, once you master forming the rice, but there's a ton of possibilities that nigiri just doesn't offer. How about Halloween temari? A circle of shoyu stained fish, a dot of nori in the middle on a ball of rice... Eyeballs! '-) Thu Dec 04 13:11:16 -0800 2008 4220489 112096 Caroline1 6 4224018 My mother would just put out thinly sliced pieces of sashimi, cucumbers, takuwan, maybe some form of surimi, and whatever else she had, with a huge stack of nori - cut larger than one might normally for the table - into quarters, and then a large wooden bowl of sushi rice with a shamoji. People would come by and "roll their own", along with selecting whatever other goodies she had prepared. But none of this ought to be put even in the same class as what you go to a sushiya for. While we are able to grill a nice porterhouse by just buying a USDA prime piece of beef, and having a real wood charcoal grill (or ok, a salamander) - something pretty close to the steak house - it just isn't the case that one buys a chunk of "sushi grade" fish and people ooh and aah about what you make at home. At least, none of the people that I go to sushiyas and izakayas with. My mother's knife skills notwithstanding, she could never approach the quality of a trained Itamae - and she knew it. She would only cut a few pieces of the sashimi at a time, and leave the main pieces wrapped in plastic until needed. Sushi can be done at home, and party sushi is fun. But it ain't anywhere near the real thing. Fri Dec 05 15:08:57 -0800 2008 4220807 10312 applehome 7 4224274 Subarashiki Nichiyobi (One Wonderful Sunday). She plays the part (a small one) of Sono, Yamiya's mistress. It was made in 1947. She made a few others (none by Kurosawa) at Toho studios before quitting to marry my father. Fri Dec 05 17:22:26 -0800 2008 4224081 10312 applehome 8 4224333 Thanks for sharing that. One wonderful story for sure. Fri Dec 05 17:53:06 -0800 2008 4224274 10903 Silverjay 8 4224356 interesting...I've seen most of Kurosawa's movies, but not that one. Fri Dec 05 18:04:13 -0800 2008 4224274 12873 OCAnn 5 4222223 Ok Applehome, I'm starting to feel a little insulted now. Fri Dec 05 02:16:14 -0800 2008 4220489 180623 Soop 6 4223840 a) You shouldn't be insulted because I used a piece of what you said to rant on cultural insensitivity - I wasn't calling you culturally insensitive. b) If you are culturally insensitive, you should be ashamed and chagrined, not insulted. Fri Dec 05 13:53:34 -0800 2008 4222223 10312 applehome 5 4224212 A side note about dim sum and Yokohama Chinatown, I had the pleasure to walk through there sometime in 1999. Generally quite expensive. You'd think that sushi is only eaten during special occassions, but Chinese food in Yokohama Chinatown isn't exactly cheap (but maybe more affordable). I have to say that Japanese style Chinese food is very different from Chinese food in California or even Hong Kong. It is probably closer to Northern Chinese style (well I loosely define as North of Hong Kong!) but at the same time there's something about it that's catered towards Japanese tastebuds. Yes they have what looks like Cantonese style shumai and maybe BBQ pork buns like in dim sum, but there are variations I can't quite put to words (not that I've eaten at Yokohama Chinatown, but at least observed the picture menus and plastic displays outside). I don't recall seeing a lot of Cantonese dim sum staples at the dim sum style places in Yokohama Chinatown. In addition to the red edged meat BBQ pork cha shu buns, there's a pork and cabbage or plain pork steamed bun (not BBQ'd) more known as butaman. And tons more variations. Heck even Sichuan style dan dan noodles has a Japanese version of it (tantanmen) and even a ramen preparation based on it. Japanese style shumai is making a comeback at a lot of izakayas in California and some sushi restaurants as appetizers, the more popular variation being crab shumai and the better ones of course hand made from scratch and not pre-frozen kind. Japanese gyoza are very common now too (Japanese take on Chinese pot stickers but thinner skin), and the multitude of variations are also seen at some sushi restaurants, one I used to go to made maguro gyoza with a spicy dipping sauce that was pretty good. But another hideous kaitensushi restaurant made a crazy roll with it....yes pot sticker roll. Starchy skin with sushi rice around it, and teriyaki sauce on top..... Fri Dec 05 16:44:23 -0800 2008 4220489 12872 K K 6 4224339 I too had dim sum in Yokohama Chinatown and thought it wasn't as heavy handed as the dim sum here in CA. All this time, I never recognised that it was catered to the Japanese palate...I just thought it was a regional difference (yes, the Japanese palate IS a regional difference, but I thought it more in terms of how East Coast dim sum varies from West Coast dimsum).... Very good observation KK. Fri Dec 05 17:55:46 -0800 2008 4224212 12873 OCAnn 6 4224372 Don't get me started on Yokohama Chinatown. Every meal there I've ever eaten has been fairly disappointing. Flushing, NY is much better for Chinese fare. The dim sum in Yokohama basically sucks, but I hear there are some decent places around in Tokyo. Expensive though. Cantonese is probably the most popular Chinese cuisine in Japan because it's probably closest to Japanese sensibilities, but Sichuan "style" is popular these days and there seem to be many Taiwanese places as well. Many do the same type of aggregation of regional styles that you see here in the U.S. This is the case unless things have changed dramatically...All things considered, Yokohama Chinatown is basically for tourists. Man, Kannai, the area just west of Chinatown, used to be a crazy place up until a few years ago.... Fri Dec 05 18:10:02 -0800 2008 4224212 10903 Silverjay 7 4224503 Yep I would have to agree based on my observations and thus assumptions from them as well. One of the reasons how I was there, was I joined a group tour, ahem run by Chinese speakers who live in Japan. Basically got super sick of eating tourist Chinese in Japan most of the time. OCAnn, that's just how I see Japanese style Chinese food in Japan and this one place south of where I work that tries to do something similar. Only certain styles of Chinese food appeal to a segment of the population. I know of Japanese friends who don't like Cantonese food that much (except for dim sum) but go gaga when it comes to mapo tofu, dan dan mien, steamed pork buns/butaman etc. Fri Dec 05 19:24:40 -0800 2008 4224372 12872 K K 8 4224542 Hi KK: By analogy, my impression is that a certain big segment of American population would go gaga when it comes to kung pao chicken, sweet and sour pork, egg roll & chow mien. And on second note, I do notice you seem to go to Taiwan regularly. Based on my own experience 5 years ago, and that was pre-Chowhound era for me so I did not keep any details with me as my Taiwanese friends brought me around, I thought the Japanese scene there was pretty good with very high standard. I personally thought it was perhaps the best I had outside of Japan. What do you think? Perhaps in comparison to the Japanese scene in America that you are also very familiar with. Fri Dec 05 19:48:35 -0800 2008 4224503 130720 FourSeasons 9 4224787 Yep, the Japanese influence is wide and deep all over Taiwan. Instead of pushing it away, they've embraced it full force even after WWII and occupation. Not just food culture, but pop culture and many other aspects. Taipei has a few districts where long blocks are dedicated to Japanese businesses and customers, whether it be social clubs, restaurants, eat/drink places. That's where you go if you are Japanese expat living in Taiwan, traveling there from Japan, or working for a Japanese company, or if you want to eat like them. Izakaya, robatayaki, places that specialize in fresh grilled unagi over rice, yakiniku, yakiniku themed izakaya's, shabu shabu etc. There are also high end Japanese restaurants that cater to local tastebuds and those who appreciate that sort of thing. Mostly Japanese, slight hint of Taiwanese. I ate at a Japanese restaurant that the former President of Taiwan (who is in jail right now) once enjoyed a lot, very nice place but not a formal sushi restaurant, although the sashimi plate was sexcellent. Then there are restaurants that are mostly Taiwanese in nature but are heavily influenced by Japanese styles of cooking, prep, ingredients, etc. Lots of hot spring spas all over Taiwan (onsen) and they even have Taiwanese version of kaiseki, vegetarian kaiseki etc. Taiwanese night markets/street food, anywhere you go, you will easily find takoyaki, something called tung lor shau that is a grilled pancake batter stuffed with either taro, butter, or red bean (like a bigger dorayaki if you will), taiyaki, skewered seafood maybe seasoned with some nori powder, stalls that specialize in nigiri sushi and local fish for sashimi (ok maybe not a good example but the influence is there). It's all good. Like Japan, Taiwan has easy access to really great local seafood. With Japan being so close, it is also efficient to source Japanese fish and easily much cheaper than from the US. Some Japanese owned restaurants in Taipei only need to drive an hour north into the port of Keelung, which I suppose is their version of Tsukiji, but much smaller and less crazy, and can easily get great quality fish sashimi that's much cheaper than importing. Keelung/Taipei can easily offer local version of swordfish (kajiki) which is a popular item for sashimi as well as "fish floss" (dried shaved), a local version that appears to be their hamachi, salmon, octopus for tako, uni (I think), ama ebi, certain clams, and more. East coast of Taiwan, near central part, of Hualien, is a huge source for bonito (katuso) and they even have a museum there (must visit) where the founders learned the art of making katsuoboshi (bonito flakes), the gift shop alone is worth checking out. If you've ever had great Taiwanese oyster noodle, chances are the broth was seasoned with katsuoboshi. Yes I'd say very close to Japan in terms of style and taste, but different. There's cheap Japanese food, there's local takes on it, and there's high end stuff but as far as a place that is an authentic sushi-ya, I am currently not aware of one. For sure any form of Japanese food in Taiwan is easily better in quality and value than most establishments in the US (in general). Fri Dec 05 23:40:42 -0800 2008 4224542 12872 K K 10 4224830 Hi KK: Thanks for your very well written review of the Japanese dining scene in Taiwan. I agree with your conclusion. Sat Dec 06 01:04:48 -0800 2008 4224787 130720 FourSeasons 11 4226880 Hi. Big tuna here.This is not the reply fo you but somebody asked about the books I got information from earlier. Here they are; "Sushi gijyutsu kyoukasho " by Asahiya publishing Co. " Shouyu no hon" by Shibata publishing Co. I hope these helps. Anything else I know learned through expierience. Sun Dec 07 07:50:18 -0800 2008 4224830 242861 bigtuna27 7 4228449 Co-signed, I've never had a good meal in Chinatown in Yokohama. I think Philadelphia's china town, small it may be, has better options. Sun Dec 07 22:53:09 -0800 2008 4224372 101545 lost squirrel 1 4227273 O-Maguro Oyakata, In some of these "how to" professional sushi man books (in Japanese with sexy pictures of the ingredients, knives, fish/seafood etc), on the preparing tamagoyaki section, there is a section on using shiromi sakana surimi (white fish paste) with egg, looks ilke a scrambled egg kind of dish, and the dried up version looks like some sort of either powder or ground mix/flour. What is the purpose of this, and does it really work in using for tamagoyaki? What are the benefits/disadvantages of adding shiromi sakana surimi for tamagoyaki, vs ground up ebi, vs say, kobashi/clam. Sun Dec 07 11:37:08 -0800 2008 4197048 12872 K K 2 4227542 I'm not sure what you are talking about. but i guess you are talking about Oboro. ans scramble egg kind dish is the one finish cooking part. You ha ve to dry up little. It's a shiromi,ebi surimi and sugar . W use them in between rice and tomago to enhance taste. All those ingredients are depends of each chef's preferance. It's for rather classic technic. Major tamagoyaki is dashimaki now. It's easier to make and easier to add your own taste to it. Sun Dec 07 14:13:41 -0800 2008 4227273 242861 bigtuna27 3 4227644 OK thanks for your response. I looked up oboro, denbu and it all makes sense to me now. There are similar but different versions of these in Taiwan, used as flavor enhancements for any food (including bread with mayo) and even inside Taiwanese style sushi rolls (usually made with dried shaved pork, look like brown wool but tastes great. Sometimes made using salmon, tuna, or kajiki). Sun Dec 07 14:56:03 -0800 2008 4227542 12872 K K 4 4230074 You like that pork? when I buy pork bun ,i make mistakes some time and end up that stuff in the bun. I can't stand it. It's too sweet. I don't care for denbu eather. Mon Dec 08 13:11:06 -0800 2008 4227644 242861 bigtuna27 5 4230232 Are we talking same thing? Some Taiwanese bakeries in LA have that (also supermarkets). It is an aquired taste, but the Taiwanese style shaved pork floss is mostly savory with hints of sweet. Kids love it. It's like Taiwanese version of peanut butter topping but is used more widespread. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rousong It is also a key ingredient for Taiwanese style futo uramaki (cucumber, tamago, rousong, sesame seeds/gomae, some green veg, kani kama or real crab meat etc) and temaki. Personally I prefer the fish version than the pork, if available. With such a large kajiki and salmon population around the waters of Taiwan, those are the popular alternatives. Mon Dec 08 13:54:49 -0800 2008 4230074 12872 K K 5 4231590 I hate cha siu buns too. I'd waited about 10 years to try one, and when I finally tried them they were too sweet. I'd like to try regular ones though. Tue Dec 09 02:26:26 -0800 2008 4230074 180623 Soop 1 4231615 Hi bigtuna27: Just one question: not about sushi, but about fish. I notice when I see the image of kinki nitsuke on blogs posted by Americans, the photo usually shows headless kinki. I actually thought the fish head is the most delicious part of kinki. Can you just explain why the chefs in America cut off the heads of kinki when they present the meal? Is it just too ugly and disgusting to most Americans? And what do they do to the kinki's heads? Throw away? Tue Dec 09 03:03:18 -0800 2008 4197048 130720 FourSeasons 2 4231933 You are right. I useally take it home for my wife. She loves soup. You must be oriental. If you are coucasion,you would'nt ask this question. Tue Dec 09 07:10:02 -0800 2008 4231615 242861 bigtuna27 3 4232037 Haha.....your wife is very lucky; kinki is very expensive, she gets the most delicious part and you can still profit from it. BTW, do you gain access to the kinki from Japan or Alaska? And how much do you charge one in a restaurant in LA? Tue Dec 09 07:46:01 -0800 2008 4231933 130720 FourSeasons 4 4233579 Yeah from Japan I think. $7 for sushi. $17 for Sashimi. I never had a lot of left over so haven't made nitsuke. Besides if i serve borney part, here comes law suit. ha ha Tue Dec 09 14:42:07 -0800 2008 4232037 242861 bigtuna27 5 4233623 Never had kinki as sashimi or sushi before. Does it taste like kinmedai? Tue Dec 09 14:58:37 -0800 2008 4233579 12872 K K 6 4233707 Me either and I'm interested. But I had a very long sakana-otaku conversation with a chef in Tokyo this summer on these two fish (I actually ate 4 kinki in a week at his place- 2 nitsuke and 2 shioyaki!). He told me they're not related. Kinki. And he mentioned you can get kinki sashimi in Hokkaido when it is very fresh. If BT can add more information, that would be nice. Tue Dec 09 15:29:57 -0800 2008 4233623 10903 Silverjay 7 4233742 Kinki and Kinme are not related yes, but they are both deep sea fish and can be somewhat similar in taste to most folks. Tue Dec 09 15:40:35 -0800 2008 4233707 12872 K K 8 4233868 Go to "Site Talk" and recommend they create a "Fish" board. Tue Dec 09 16:30:32 -0800 2008 4233742 10903 Silverjay 8 4233877 Had my first Kinki with head on a couple months ago here in San Diego, it was close to a Kinmedai, but the flesh is definitely more delicate: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sushimaniac/2911383586/ Kinmedai one of my favorites, shioyaki style or nitsuke, I have had at least six heads this year! http://www.flickr.com/photos/sushimaniac/2881247552/ Tue Dec 09 16:32:54 -0800 2008 4233742 11160 Pablo 6 4234035 Ok I'm sorry. I've got mixed up those two fish. the price i told you for kinnme dai. I did try Kinki sushi but not that grate. If my memory is correct it tasted more like grouper as sushi or sashimi. You need ponzu sauce. Tue Dec 09 17:37:14 -0800 2008 4233623 242861 bigtuna27 7 4419791 And here I thought Kinki sushi was just a variation on Nyotaimori... Sun Feb 15 14:40:25 -0800 2009 4234035 95291 Richard 16 2 4233475 Yep like Big Tuna says, you've pretty much answered your own question. Isn't curry fish head claypot one of the famous dishes of Singaporean Chinese food (maybe not as famous as curry crab). In Northern California, the closest one might get to the fish head for most Japanese restaurants is by way of the collar, e.g. grilled hamachi or salmon kama. Some of the more authentic places will sometimes have the fish head as a special (e.g. tai head nitsuke). If the fish is relatively small, the restaurant may not may not include it entirely. But apparently some people who may cringe at eating the fish head, might have no problem if their cut of bluefin toro kama came from the "neck" portion or the cheeks (hypocritical? :-) ). You know you are seriously hardcore Asian if you also eat the eyeballs too. For a reference point, one fusion izakaya place I know of charged $17 to $20 for an order of kinki nitsuke (possibly by weight), not a big fish and I don't think it was whole, but just enough for 2 to sample. They also do a prep that is deep fried, then served with a thicker gravy with vegetables. No idea where they get it from. Tue Dec 09 14:14:26 -0800 2008 4231615 12872 K K 3 4233585 It probably be whole fish. The gravy you are talking about may be annkake style. Dashi,soy sauce,mirinn sugar ,ginger and starches. Tue Dec 09 14:45:33 -0800 2008 4233475 242861 bigtuna27 3 4233688 Wow, classic cultural shit guys. Perhaps it's a west coast thing. I order and eat whole fish dishes in NYC all the time at Japanese, Chinese, Thai, Mediterranean, American restaurants. They aren't unusual here or in many other places along the east coast. Actually, I was served kabuto nitsuke (which is just the head and nothing else) as an omakase item at Ushi Wakamaru in NYC last year. I don't think it boils down to just American or white people's sensibilities. I know plenty of Japanese (especially women) who get kind of freaked out by head on fishies....Now what's the deal with those "sticks" that you guys eat with???? Tue Dec 09 15:23:24 -0800 2008 4233475 10903 Silverjay 4 4233753 Not stereotyping here, just answering a theory man. Are there Whole Foods supermarkets in NY Silverjay? For some reason they always chop and chuck away the wild salmon heads at the local Cali ones I frequent, and that makes me sad. Tue Dec 09 15:45:38 -0800 2008 4233688 12872 K K 5 4233857 Oh, I'm certainly not implying that fish heads are at the top of American home chef's shopping list, nor that the meat is truly appreciated here. Merely that it's not necessarily a "cringe and awe" type of thing when served in a restaurant as a whole fish dish....I usually shop at ethnic markets and you see all kinds of wacky things. Tue Dec 09 16:24:59 -0800 2008 4233753 10903 Silverjay 3 4234266 Hi KK: Just to correct you: it is Chilli Crab, not curry crab. And curry fish head does not have to be in a claypot; and it is not a Singaporean Chinese food, more like a Singaporean Indian food. Kinki nituske for just $17-20. That is very cheap but I don't understand how they can serve if it is not the whole. I guess it is cheap because the demand is not high there, or perhaps able to source locally from Alaska (though I did read that the kinki from Alaska is considered as second class as compared to the deep sea ones from Hokkaido). Maybe I should look for kinki more often when I visit LA. And in my opinion, kinki is much more delicious than kinmedai. Eyeball is not the good part, it is the area around the eyeball that is real delicious. For hardcore, only the bones are left at the end... Tue Dec 09 19:22:37 -0800 2008 4233475 130720 FourSeasons 1 4236831 Bigtuna-san I think most of us know what escolar is, and it is being passed around other types of sushi restaurants as either -shiro maguro (instead of albacore) - super white tuna - "butterfish" (instead of medai) - "Walu" (sometimes carelessly marketed as a safe and exotic fish from Hawaii) and whatever other incorrect names (someone said a restaurant tried to pass escolar as "mutsu!"). Some of us know that it can cause anal leakage depending on the person who eats it, no matter if you serve it raw or seared or fully cooked. What are your thoughts on using this fish for sushi and sashimi. Also do you make your own osechi? It's about that time of year. Wed Dec 10 15:13:04 -0800 2008 4197048 12872 K K 2 4236849 hahahaha @ anal leakage. Sorry. I'm just glad I haven't eaten any. ha ha Wed Dec 10 15:20:43 -0800 2008 4236831 12873 OCAnn 3 4236958 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escolar Interesting, I didn't know before it was also known as "snake mackeral". Look under "effects of consumption". I suppose if you want to make your own orange colored "mineral oil" what other better way. Which begs the question, which one does the job better, escolar or stale spicy tuna (or better yet, spicy escolar). Wed Dec 10 16:05:16 -0800 2008 4236849 12872 K K 4 4237009 LOL @ "which does the job better...." Might be fun to bring some "tuna" salad to the next office potluck. hahahaha Wed Dec 10 16:26:46 -0800 2008 4236958 12873 OCAnn 2 4237719 It also called Ono from hawaii. Mutsu is actualy real name in Japan. I don't like this fish. But some american like it.Because it's oily. everything you said about the result afterwords are TRUE!!!. Osechi? NO WAY.I'm serving for americans 99% of the time. I'll eat standing rib roast. Wed Dec 10 21:23:16 -0800 2008 4236831 242861 bigtuna27 3 4237844 Oh yes... ono. I think I heard that one before. More like HELL NO. I thought mutsu was "bluefish" and not escolar. I've had mutsu twice at legitimate Japanese run sushirestaurants, and they look like and taste like most typical shiromi sakana, and not the pearl white/super white fish (so blinding and shiny it hurts my eyes) and the mutsu I had definitely kept my ass dry. So I am inclined to believe those who try to offer escolar are inaccurately labeling the fish, maybe to downplay the anal leakage effects. I've seen someone say ebodai is butterfish, and another restaurant would say butterfish is medai. I've seen a few chefs offer some osechi items halfway through an almost end of the year meal. So unforgettable :-) Wed Dec 10 23:08:18 -0800 2008 4237719 12872 K K 4 4237869 Ono and escolar are different fish. ono, sometimes called wahoo (as in Wahoo's Fish Tacos), is in the same taxonomic family as tuna and mackerel. Escolar, as KK mentioned, is a snake mackerel, like the notorious oilfish. I believe escolar is referred to as walu in Hawaii. Escolar can be consumed in moderate amounts without suffering any side effects; I've eaten as much as six large pieces of sashimi in a sitting and not had any gastrointestinal unpleasantness. I may get myself barred from the sushi connoisseurs club for admitting this, but I think it's a pretty tasty fish; it has a unique juiciness. Wed Dec 10 23:35:14 -0800 2008 4237844 10832 Humbucker 5 4238627 You are correct. The point I was trying to make was no sushi bar has right info. They believe what ever Fish Co says. And sometimes Fish Co doesn't even know fish right. I know wahoo. I had it in Hawaii. It's like Baracuda. Kamasu in Japanese. Thak you for info. All those years I thought Ono and Escolar are the same fish. I guess I too believed Fish Co. ha ha Thu Dec 11 08:42:22 -0800 2008 4237869 242861 bigtuna27 6 4238673 So who makes mistakes in fish naming more, IMP or True World? .... Thu Dec 11 08:54:16 -0800 2008 4238627 12872 K K 7 4240175 I don't know.But i hard from both of them calling it white tuna. Which has nothing to do with tuna. Well ,i don't want carry anyway. Thu Dec 11 16:20:23 -0800 2008 4238673 242861 bigtuna27 5 4239463 As Humbucker notes, in moderation escolar is fine - unless the diner already has digestive problems. While a fatty fish, it's not the usual lipids - about 80% is an undigestable wax ester. It's not toxic in the usual sense we think of as a toxin; i.e., a nasty chemical. Unlike mercury there's no long term build-up (of which I am aware), but because it's undigestable instead it goes right through - which is the cause of the problems. Cooking down the fats is helpful, but obviously irrelevant raw. The FDA recommends no more than six ounces a day, so with the usual neta averaging about an ounce few of us typically reach that level. Individual responses vary so some can eat more without apparent problem and some less. US FDA/CFSAN - Bad Bug Book - Gempylotoxin Keriorrhoea--the passage of oil per rectum--after ...[S Afr Med J. 1981] - PubMed Result Thu Dec 11 12:46:01 -0800 2008 4237869 95291 Richard 16 6 4239537 Keriorrhoea...hahahaha Thu Dec 11 13:05:01 -0800 2008 4239463 12873 OCAnn 6 4239637 I guess that more or less ends the FAQ about escolar in the world of sushi. i.e. eat at your own risk and/or in moderation. Avoid entirely if you value the integrity of your o-ring. Thu Dec 11 13:32:13 -0800 2008 4239463 12872 K K 2 4238921 I would stay away, very far away... "escolar has been banned from consumption in Japan since 1977, as the Japanese government considers it toxic." -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escolar Thu Dec 11 10:02:49 -0800 2008 4236831 11160 Pablo 1 4237473 Hi bigtuna27: Two questions today: 1. What is the difference in the texture and taste of the sashimi between farmed fugu and wild fugu? Is wild fugu available in US? (From my understanding, most of what is exported is just farmed fugu) If yes, how much do you charge for a wild fugu ryori kaiseki (from sashimi, skin, shirako, karaage, nabe, porridge etc etc)? Personally, I actually prefer the lesser known kawahagi to farmed fugu, but I have never really tried the sashimi of wild fugu, so seeking your opinion. 2. This is winter time now: do you prefer kue nabe, anko nabe or fugu nabe? What is your favorite nabe? Wed Dec 10 19:30:21 -0800 2008 4197048 130720 FourSeasons 2 4237728 1) No FDA prohibit to import wild one. You want to try real one? Call travel agency. It's the season now. Even if you had chance to eat wild one in US,texture will be same. Because it is prosessed already. But if you had it in Japan. Both of them taste better there. Differnce between wild and farm raised is POISN. Wild one ,you can feel it. 2) Anko then Kue. I'm not the big fun of fugu. Wed Dec 10 21:30:16 -0800 2008 4237473 242861 bigtuna27 3 4237758 1. I don't understand what you mean by POISN for the taste difference between wild and farm fugu. What do you mean "you can feel it" on the taste context? Can you explain further? I have tried farmed fugu in Tokyo. But have never tried sashimi of wild fugu because the meal is so expensive, but did try the skin and cheek karaage style of wild fugu on some ryori meals. 2. I agree with you on nabe too: I prefer anko, then kue, and last fugu. But price wise, it seem to be just the other way. Wed Dec 10 21:57:41 -0800 2008 4237728 130720 FourSeasons 4 4237829 Ok. I explained this way back but one more time for you. Fugu doesn't produce poison. They just eat the shell fish which produce poisn for self protection. Like star fish etc. They just keep those poisn in their brad for their self protection. There for farm raised fugu doesn't have poisn because they are fed man maid bait.1) How you feel it? When you eat wild fugu specialy sashimi, You may get tingling feeling on your tang or inside your mouth. If you eat cooked virsion like karaage or soup etc specialy when you had sake to go with,you'll feel warm or you can feel you brad flow faster. So that's the difference.[ Oh By the way you feel tingling sensation on your face or lips,you have 1 1/2 hr to live] And that's why fugu is winter food. Farm raised fugu is nothing compaired to wild one. You are paying for that thrill. No matter how cheap it is jankie doesn't do fake drugs right? ha ha. May be not a good example though. Get the air ticket now. Real one cost you around $ 150~200 per person in Japan. 2) I prefer angus beef humberger over kobe fillet mignon. ha ha. Wed Dec 10 22:58:12 -0800 2008 4237758 242861 bigtuna27 5 4237846 1. Thanks for the explanation. Upscale ones in Tokyo cost US$300-500 per person. I wish I can get air ticket now, but Yen is too strong at the moment. Can't afford anymore. 2. Haha..good point. Wed Dec 10 23:10:05 -0800 2008 4237829 130720 FourSeasons 6 4240185 I have a Question for all of you guys. No offence but which one of you are coucaision and which one of you are asian decent? I'm just curius since you guys know so much. I'm realy impressed here. My wife and i are debateing who's who? If you don't mind telling me. Thanks BT Thu Dec 11 16:24:31 -0800 2008 4237846 242861 bigtuna27 7 4242897 No, no, no! Wrong question, BT san. The right question is, "Hey, how many of your guys ARE sushi chefs?" '-) Fri Dec 12 16:07:05 -0800 2008 4240185 112096 Caroline1 8 4242973 Ha ha. I don't think any of you guys are. We are simply curius. I think all of you are asian decent. And there is no Japanese. But I seriously impressed about you guys knowledge. I didn't expect this much when I started this blog. Not bad as a first time blogger ha? I'm having fun. I thak all of you joining my blog. I wish I can open the sushi bar to satisfy all of you in the furure. It'll be challenge and fun. Fri Dec 12 16:43:08 -0800 2008 4242897 242861 bigtuna27 9 4243131 Why do you say nobody is Japanese? Fri Dec 12 18:09:25 -0800 2008 4242973 10312 applehome 10 4243445 Just gessing. Are you? Fri Dec 12 21:53:14 -0800 2008 4243131 242861 bigtuna27 11 4243487 I'm hanbun. I was born in Camp Zama and grew up in Hodogaya near Yokohama and with my mother's family in Yokosuka. It was all tambo when I was a kid. Wonderful place - not like today, all concrete and small factories. I'm the youngest one here: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v611/applehome/appleman/?action=view&current=papaus.jpg Fri Dec 12 22:28:15 -0800 2008 4243445 10312 applehome 2 4243436 A few comments in response to the various recent posts: - from searching around the internet, the "best" place to have fugu in the USA is at Masa New York. The cost will probably be at the upper end of an upscale Tokyo place as Four Seasons quoted. The caveat is that based on 2005 reports, Masa's fugu offerings is more or less fugu served 3 way (which includes the liver), as part of his hybrid kaiseki and sashimi/nigiri omakase. Given his reputation, I don't think he would serve farmed fugu. But does prep the fish in front of you. Why he is able to serve fugu but not Urasawa, is still a little bit of a mystery (although with Urasawa, apparently customs found out about his secret shipment). - I'm sure good fugu set dinners (full) will be cheaper outside of Tokyo, so why not do that instead of eating at Masa NY (for those who may want to consider having fugu in the USA, do it in Japan instead). Try Kyushu, Shimonoseki where most of the quality wild fugu come from, and places like Nagoya. - go to google.com and search for fugu Masa. There is one good NY times article on fugu and two articles from nymag (good reading). - Anthony Bourdain ate at some well known Tokyo (?) fugu restaurant during his "Cook's Tour" . I can tell he prefers richer flavor fish (toro, uni), so I am not surprised he found fugu "bland" and his expected near death experience rather unexciting. - People who love to eat and are passionate about food, will find ways to learn about it in any means no matter their ethnic background. So the question is moot who is Caucasian or Asian or Japanese posting here unless they volunteer their answer (mine has already been revealed some 100+ posts up somewhere in the thread). In addition to actually going to restaurants and talking to chefs there are plenty of resources and media/mediums. Of course it helps if you already know the native language of an ethnic food of interest (inclusive of Japanese food and sushi). - There are people who are not also passionate about food but learn the history and origins and processes (including cooking). Personally I suck at cooking. I leave it to the professionals and the moms who know what they are doing at home. - If we ate at Big Tuna's sushi bar, I don't think we will leave once we go inside. Too much to talk about. Just don't get us too drunk. Fri Dec 12 21:46:08 -0800 2008 4237473 12872 K K 3 4243579 Hi KK: Just a comment on fugu and Masa: I seriously doubt if wild fugu liver is served in Masa; that is supposed to be the most poisonous part of fugu. The article seem to mention "fugu karaage", but most of the time, the part that is served karaage style is the fugu cheek. I seldom heard of liver being served karaage, and that includes anko or kawahagi. Maybe BT can confirm if I am right or wrong on this matter. There is this menu (already translated to English) by a well known fugu house Tsukiji Yamamoto at Tsukiji Japan and I don't see any liver too. Here is the website: http://www8.plala.or.jp/tsukijiyamamoto/YAM99.htm As to Masa, its serving of fugu 3 ways cannot be compared to a high end fugu house in Japan. The fugu specialist would only served fugu, and a full course fugu is usually more expensive than other ryori. And based on my own experience, fugu is best served at one specialize in fugu rather than a generalist that served many other dishes. And while I have written above that I find Sushi Yasuda to be "value for money", I am certainly puzzled by the charges at Masa and Urasawa to be so expensive based on the review I read by bloggers as compared to the top end ryori kaiseki places in Tokyo (which charge about US$150-350 per head). Hi Bigtuna: I am not Caucasian; I don't live in America; one of few non-American members in Chowhound. Sat Dec 13 00:48:50 -0800 2008 4243436 130720 FourSeasons 3 4243682 Speaking of fugu, I'm kind of looking forward to trying pickled fugu ovary in Kanazawa in a couple of weeks. It's a local delicacy. In Japanese it's called 河豚の卵巣の糠漬け. Info in English available here- http://shofu.pref.ishikawa.jp/shofu/dokunuki_e/index.html . Sat Dec 13 05:34:48 -0800 2008 4243436 10903 Silverjay 4 4243844 Kanazawa ha? Try konowata, konoko. They are very famous for it. I wish I coud go with you ha ha. Good warm rice made with barning wood and qwail egg york and konowata. Best way to finish meal at Izakaya. Not mention their local fishes and sea food. U~~mmmm. You are lucky. Sat Dec 13 07:57:45 -0800 2008 4243682 242861 bigtuna27 5 4243899 I am out in Buenos Aires at the moment and they love to use warm rice out here with there sushi. I would compare the sushi out here to a sort of McDonalds Sushi,its good in a sort of sweet junk food style but it is not sushi as we know it. Sat Dec 13 08:34:36 -0800 2008 4243844 248173 laurafoodfan 6 4244146 Can you describe more. I'm curius. I can't believe they eat sushi over there. Sat Dec 13 11:00:19 -0800 2008 4243899 242861 bigtuna27 7 4244252 i only know what i've read -- but i've read from MULTIPLE sources sushi is very very common in south america -- even available as a street food in certain cities Sat Dec 13 12:11:05 -0800 2008 4244146 23260 ssainani 8 4244502 Do you think it because Japanese decent overthere? I know a lot of Japanese went there after WW2 as an immigrant. Silverjay what your take on this matter? Sat Dec 13 14:28:49 -0800 2008 4244252 242861 bigtuna27 9 4245490 I know of Peru and Brazil as destination countries for Japanese emigrants, not Argentina. And I thought I heard that they went there for plantation farming, not for urban lifestyle. But I"m not sure. I do know that Nobu Matsuhisa spent time in Peru and I believe, Argentina, working at sushi places prior to going to the U.S. Anyway, it doesn't surprise me that sushi would be popular anywhere now. But most of it is not good. I support the Japanese government "sushi police" initiative to protect authentic culture. Sun Dec 14 06:41:28 -0800 2008 4244502 10903 Silverjay 5 4245491 I would ask for Kobe recommendations, but I've been there a few times. First time to Kanazawa- http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/567652 Sun Dec 14 06:41:42 -0800 2008 4243844 10903 Silverjay 1 4245804 First, let me start by saying how kind and gracious I think you are opening yourself up to the world of Hounds and their sushi questions. Here’s mine. As much as anything else, I love certain sushi for it’s mouthfeel. It’s what takes it from just delicious to sexy too. Whether it’s melting Uni in your mouth, or tobiko tickling your tongue, or teeth sinking gently through tender otoro it’s all very sensuous. What do you find has the best mouthfeel and why? Sun Dec 14 09:41:38 -0800 2008 4197048 12072 Googs 2 4246472 Everybody has their own likings I guess. Mine is thick cut of tender blue fin tuma ten meat. Flavorfull soft barddy meat accompany with right amount of rice made by expierienced chef. Always make me happy. And I don't have to go anywhere. Ha ha. 1 piece will do the job. Sun Dec 14 16:14:12 -0800 2008 4245804 242861 bigtuna27 1 4249847 BigTuna-San, please, if you will, enlighten us with the story and origin behind your knives. What types you use, what your favorite brand is, how you came to acquire them, etc. Mon Dec 15 22:00:04 -0800 2008 4197048 226450 Notorious P.I.G. 2 4249920 Well. I have "Sakai takayuki seijikou shaku" as a good knife. Other one is no name stainless steel shyaku. Seijikou is about 15 yrs old. and other one is 10yrs old. I tried New wave stainless steel too. But I didn't like it. Seijikou steal is made from iron sand collected from the dune at Tottori prefecture and very hard. Hakujikou is softer. I like Masamoto from Tokyo too. Masamoto has little modern than Sakai. Both Sakai and Masamoto are hand made. There are varius good knife makers in Japan. They make modern style to very classic style. I used be in to knife and had more than several but now I don't realy care for that much. Easy to use one is the best. It's all how you look at knife. Stainless one doesn't get rusty and easy to clean but lose edge easily. Good one's edge last longer but pain in you ass to keep it clean and shiny. Mon Dec 15 23:12:38 -0800 2008 4249847 242861 bigtuna27 3 4249995 Yes, it breaks my heart to see a stained blade. Ah, Sakai, very nice! My father and Uncle are sushi chefs and both use Masamoto around the bar. My girlfriend is also a chef and keeps Masamoto, Misono, and Togiharu in stock. I think my favorite for value is Misono personally but I don't need anything fancy. However, I recently inherited a knife from my father and was wondering if you had any ideas as to its origin or who it may have been forged by. It's a 10.5 inch Yanagi. I've included a picture of the Kanji engraved in the blade below. Please, if it's not too much trouble let me know what you think! Tue Dec 16 01:16:13 -0800 2008 4249920 226450 Notorious P.I.G. 4 4250622 it reads " Sakai ichimonnji Mitsuhide" or may be "Kikuhide" you can look up on internet. I don't know the value though. Tue Dec 16 08:29:02 -0800 2008 4249995 242861 bigtuna27 5 4251490 Thanks for the help! Tue Dec 16 12:59:33 -0800 2008 4250622 226450 Notorious P.I.G. 1 4264371 No questions here, although I have spent the better part of the past 3 hours reading responses on this post and now know more than I ever thought necessary regarding sushi (fan for 22 years). Sushi bots? I'm sure you're like Jacques Pepin (with perfectly cutting a chicken) and do make it faster, and better. The best sushi I've had was at a ryokan, 21 years ago (freshness being the ultimate factor for me). I still want to take my husband to Japan so he can experience both the food of the country as well as the craziness that is Tokyo. Great blog--thank you! Sun Dec 21 14:16:07 -0800 2008 4197048 224238 Caralien 2 4264637 It took 3 hrs ha? Thank you. Happy Holidays. May the Sushi God bless you. Ha ha. Sun Dec 21 17:04:58 -0800 2008 4264371 242861 bigtuna27 1 4264713 Okay, I wasn't the only one to spend my Sunday afternoon educating myself on the details of sushi! I have learned so much :) Thank you. Here is my question. As a vegetarian, I sometimes find myself out with a group who decides on sushi for dinner. Is it rude to ask for something other than a cucumber roll if nothing else is on the menu? I don't mind them, but sometimes enjoy a sushi chef's innovations. What is the appropriate behavior? Thank you! Sun Dec 21 17:43:15 -0800 2008 4197048 73756 enbell 2 4264843 I'm no longer vegetarian, thanks to (or blaming) a year in Spain. That said, there are plenty of non-fish sushi rolls. Carrot-shitake-cucmber rolls remain a great roll. I would reckon that a decent sushi chef would create something for you. Pickled plum, not my favourite, I would often discover in the middle of my triangular nori-covered thing in Tokyo (apologies if I'm being rude, we just referred to them as such) Sun Dec 21 18:36:44 -0800 2008 4264713 224238 Caralien 3 4264875 Que parte de espana? I agree that there are many wonderful veggie combinations. There are a few places in my are known for their fresh, simple fish, and have no real deviations from the norm. It is these sushi chefs who intimidate me, and I have yet to muster the courage to ask for something not on the menu. Thanks! Sun Dec 21 18:48:44 -0800 2008 4264843 73756 enbell 2 4265281 Since sushi is based on the rice, not the fish, pretty much anything is fair game. Most places have several vegetarian types, including simple cucumber but also burdock, natto, pickles (i.e., taukuan), carrot, umeboshi plums (as with Caralien), scallion, combinations,etc.,etc. If you eat eggs, there's another option. Baked winter squash or shitaki are two I've made at home. If either is on the menu in another item, ask! (Except the shitaki may have dashi; ask.) Miso soup may seem like an option but is made with a dashi - a stock which includes fish flakes. Edit: the eggs may be made with a dashi... Simply tell the chef and let them go at it. Sun Dec 21 23:36:58 -0800 2008 4264713 95291 Richard 16 1 4265293 What do you think of Nobu? Are they over-priced? also how do you feel about grocery store chains selling sushi pre packaged? thankyou Mon Dec 22 00:03:09 -0800 2008 4197048 146405 stricken 2 4265318 Hi. First thing first. Vege-rolls: Just ask. If chef is nice guy,he will have fun creating something for you. If he is not nice and give you hard time ,don't go there any more. Nobu LA; I hard a rumor that they are having hard time. Market sushi is not the best sushi but they are usually safe. Most of them are changed often. Check the date or time they were made and trust your instinct. Happy Holidays Mon Dec 22 01:20:00 -0800 2008 4265293 242861 bigtuna27 3 4265333 Gosh, thank you for your willingness to share your knowledge, and for your patience with what must seem like (at least when it comes to mine) such silly questions! Happy olidays to you as well :) Mon Dec 22 01:48:08 -0800 2008 4265318 73756 enbell 4 4275447 Greetings bigtuna and thanks for sharing so much information. On the subject of omakase. I am in love with a very excellent sushi restaurant here in New York. Whenever I go I sit in front of the chef who owns the place, and let him make whatever he wants for me. I am not a regular, unless you consider once a year regular. I wish I could afford to go more often. I like the element of surprise, and everything he gives me is always incredible. He is a sushi purist and very traditional. Would he respect me more as a "non regular" if i just ordered from the sushi list, as you mentioned omakase is only for regulars in Japan. Thanks! Sat Dec 27 05:57:14 -0800 2008 4265333 43548 gastrognome 5 4276003 Hi. NY has more traditional style sushi bar than LA. You want him to respect you? Respect him first with being polite, honest, appreciate and at last tip good ha ha. I guess you all done that so if you become friend with him,he will treat you better of course. Big smile after you ate his creation helps a lot. I just want to say" Happy Holidays you all. And hope everybodys are doing OK in this tough time. Thank you all for making my blog this big in short time. God bress you all" Sat Dec 27 11:15:47 -0800 2008 4275447 242861 bigtuna27 1 4277029 Big Tuna San, since you've been in LA for so long, you must know who Toshi Sugiura is. Have you been to his former restaurant, Hama. Do you consider him a pioneer for what he has done to open up sushi to the western world (via his academy), or is he somewhat of a traitor for sharing the secrets of what is supposed to be a carefully guarded tradition? For people who are really really interested in enrolling in the program, do you think it is worth the $5000+ tuition where they learn to make big ass stupid name rolls, saba shio, tamagoyaki and even more classic dark arts? Are there alternatives? And is it really true that the California roll was originally invented for Japanese people because toro was very difficult to find and a substitute was needed? Sat Dec 27 21:37:57 -0800 2008 4197048 12872 K K 2 4277498 Nevermind the 2nd paragraph's question. I seemed to have found the answer thanks to Silverjay's mention in the sushi and avocado thread where avocado was used as a substitute to toro many years ago in Los Angeles when toro was not readily available. Sun Dec 28 08:49:58 -0800 2008 4277029 12872 K K 2 4277630 Hi. Yes I know him well. So I don't want to talk about him a lot. He is in a way a pioneer. Sushi school: It is worth for the people want to make good money soon. After graduation, spend couple years in busy restaurant. Then fake the expierience to 5 yrs. You'll be able to take home $2500 /mo or more depends on your luck. Because restaurant owner now a days is not the well expierienced japanese chef . They don't know the quality of skills nor appriciate. All comes down those idiot is money. So yes it worth paying $5000. People like you guys are very hard to find. May be one in hundred. How can we make business targetting to you guys ha? Only few lucky one like sushi -zo, survives. happy holidays. BT Sun Dec 28 10:07:15 -0800 2008 4277029 242861 bigtuna27 3 4277703 For those who don't know what we are talking about. http://www.sushi-academy.com/ And go out and get Trevor Corson's book "Zen of Fish". Very detailed research into the history of nigiri sushi, history of sushi in Hollywood/Southern California/Los Angeles, the story of the Academy and Toshi Suigura plus the experiences of some of the students (the lead story character is female) , and one of the takeaway messages, exactly like big-tuna san says, that sushi is no longer an art form but a business. Sun Dec 28 10:38:51 -0800 2008 4277630 12872 K K 1 4278090 Hi BT27, Some time ago, I was served a sashimi course which was presented with several sprigs of kahojiso. Are there specific flavor enhancements that I should note when it comes to tsuma? Do bakudaikai, bofu, suzenji/akaito nori, benitade, murame or yori-udo suggest certain pairing? On a recent occasion, I enjoyed suppon served as shirumono - locally. If I were to buy that ticket and seek a nose-to-tail experience, is there a specific locale (prefecture/town) for this specialty? Is it true that you can identify such shops since they fly a banner with a single, circular stroke? A fugu course might feature hire-sake, I can't recall the name of the comparable drink for this outing. Best wishes for a prosperous New Year. Sun Dec 28 13:54:56 -0800 2008 4197048 67783 TheDescendedLefticleOfAramis 2 4278663 Wow you asked hard to answer questions. Kahojiso[hanahojiso] is still available through fish co. I used to use it from my garden. benitade; Friend of my friend used to farm grown to sell it here in LA. But didn't work.Yori-udo; you can make it if you can get fresh UDO. Others may not available in LA. I know one place serve "Supponn" in MB. I think he uses pre cleaned vaccum packed supponn. Check on internet if you want to go Japan. I don't know much about it. Hire sake is fugu hire dipped hot sake. So tha you supposed to be able to feel poisn a litte. You can buy fugu hire at Japanese market sometime. Good luck Sun Dec 28 18:57:10 -0800 2008 4278090 242861 bigtuna27 1 4282154 So, sensei, do you have a good Ozoni recipe? Do you use anything special? I bought my mochigome and made batches of mochi in my Tiger mochi machine to give to my friends and family. I will make ours Thursday morning. Not the same thing as pounding with the big wooden hammer, like my family used to when I was a boy. But I still make mochi every New Year. Happy New Year to you and to everybody! Tue Dec 30 01:12:59 -0800 2008 4197048 10312 applehome 2 4282860 Ozoni. It's so simple and rather easy item. But every house hold has their own recipie. And every single recipie is good. I don't know why? I think it's all up to the mochi. So it's a good thing you are making it by your self. Few community in LA makes mochi by old fashion way every year. I'm not close to Japanese community but you can find it Japanese news paper. Good luck and Happy New Year to you. Tue Dec 30 09:08:06 -0800 2008 4282154 242861 bigtuna27 3 4282920 Hi BF27. I just like to congratulate you on this successful blog. I wish you and your wife happy and prosperous new year. Tue Dec 30 09:27:11 -0800 2008 4282860 252605 sayohashi 1 4284365 a follow-up ... anko-nabe ( i note, you enjoy ) i've asked: roughly ... "unless you work in the kitchen ...". why is this? Tue Dec 30 17:59:35 -0800 2008 4197048 67783 TheDescendedLefticleOfAramis 2 4286027 I tried to find what are you talking about but couldn't. Please give me more detail about your question. I'm happy to give you answer when I understand what you asking about. Sorry BT Wed Dec 31 11:41:35 -0800 2008 4284365 242861 bigtuna27 3 4286655 Hi BT27, I think the poster is referring to why is it so hard to find anko-nabe? You can usually get ankimo, but any other anko seems to be a rare find at a sushi bar. I was fortunate to get anko tempura once this year at my favorite sushi bar in the San Diego area. The itamae there usually only makes his own ankimo, but this time he had the whole fish too. Check it out: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sushimaniac/2852529866/ My question, why isn't there more hoya around? I really love it and it so hard to come by. I only had it one time this year: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sushimaniac/3043416921/ Wed Dec 31 16:04:55 -0800 2008 4286027 11160 Pablo 4 4286939 Hi. Pablo That was Kaito in san diego. Very famous and expensive joint. H~~~m you are rich ha? Anko is known as Monk fish. You may not be able to get whole fish but I find in American fish market some times as fillet virsion. Freshness for that fillet,i can't tell but supposed to be good for cooking. Why don't you make it by your self. or better bring it to your sushi bar and ask chef to make it for you. Hoya; I only had few times in my life. It's available some times at fish market we buy. But it has strong flavor. May be that's the reason sushi bar doesn't serve often. Personally, I don't like it. Wed Dec 31 19:18:24 -0800 2008 4286655 242861 bigtuna27 4 4305934 Thanks for that follow-up, as well as the Kaito rec you and cgfan posted (checked it out this summer ... very cool ... front, back & counter) Wed Jan 07 18:12:57 -0800 2009 4286655 67783 TheDescendedLefticleOfAramis 1 4288768 BT, akemashite omedetougozaimasu! Thank you for your advice. Thu Jan 01 19:29:37 -0800 2009 4197048 12873 OCAnn 2 4288803 謹賀新年　今年もよろしく　お手柔らかにお願いします Happy New Year. Take it easy please. BT Thu Jan 01 19:49:09 -0800 2009 4288768 242861 bigtuna27 3 4352842 akemashite omedetou gozaimasu. kotoshimo yoroshiku onegaishimasu. itsumo tanoshiku yondemasu Fri Jan 23 21:22:33 -0800 2009 4288803 187821 katana750 1 4354990 Wow, what a huge and informative thread! Now I'm going to ruin all this fancy information with a horribly basic question: When we go into a sushi place, the chefs always call out a greeting. What are they saying? And what's the best response? I always give a slight bow and a very awkward smile, because I don't know the etiquette at all. Thanks bigtuna! I want to come eat in your restaurant! Do you still prepare sushi in L.A.? Sat Jan 24 20:08:49 -0800 2009 4197048 19626 thursday 2 4356557 Hi. They are saying "Irasshaimase" which means "welcome". There are no rule to response to this but you can raise your hand and smile. That will be most proper response I think. I'm still in LA but the restaurant got hit from this economy crises and changed owner. I'm jobless now. You wanna open sushi bar with me? ha ha Now I'm taking it easy and enjoy surfing. See ya Sun Jan 25 14:17:26 -0800 2009 4354990 242861 bigtuna27 1 4357748 Sushi man!!! Glad your'e still here. I learned on Friday that my friend was buying up some sushi making kit, and I said I'd ask your advice on some things. He's got a mat for making maki rolls, but I believe he's making nigiri too. At the moment, he's bought some salmon. I've told him he needs to use sushi grade fish, but how is it treated differently? I know this one is frozen, but tbh, I don't think he should be eating it. Mon Jan 26 02:01:45 -0800 2009 4197048 180623 Soop 2 4358652 Hi. Soop. Well if the salmon was frozen you can use it for sushi. Hope he bought in Japanese store though. To make it taste good: Salt them lightly,wait 1 hr , rinse it with light vinegar water. This step will take out fishy smell and kill bacteria on the surface. Also make it more flavorful. Enjoy. BT Mon Jan 26 10:02:13 -0800 2009 4357748 242861 bigtuna27 1 4361109 Great, thanks! Soo.... This funny story about omakase? Tue Jan 27 02:48:07 -0800 2009 4197048 180623 Soop 2 4361908 Not realy. I found so many people misunderstand about sushi thing. That doesn't limit customers but also sushi chefs too. Yeah they can call it any way they want since this is America. The main idea is get you guy's tension and tell you what sushi is all about basicly. With good knowledge, you can understand and enjoy more right? I think I made this blog OK. Any question is welcome. I'm still here. Have fun. See ya Tue Jan 27 09:22:12 -0800 2009 4361109 242861 bigtuna27 3 4363484 So ... are you really from Queens? http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/583196#post-content-4278061 Tue Jan 27 15:58:54 -0800 2009 4361908 67783 TheDescendedLefticleOfAramis 4 4365476 No I'm originaly from Kobe Japan. I've been in LA past 30yrs. Wed Jan 28 09:01:39 -0800 2009 4363484 242861 bigtuna27 1 4383945 I need some background on uni. Is there a sushi grade form of uni? Can you aquire it if you arent a sushi chef or connected to a wholesaler or fisherman? What type of urchin do they generally come from? How long can good uni last before it loses its charateristic flavor and mouthfeel? I hear it has a VERY short shelf life. Tue Feb 03 11:02:44 -0800 2009 4197048 238787 Insidious Rex 2 4384017 Hi. Uni has several grade. There are 2 common type uni. Purple and Bafun. Purple is better one. You can't buy any uni in shell at retail market usually. But you can buy boxed one at good oeiental market like Japanse or Korean market. Shell type will last 2~3 days in the frige and boxed one is longer like 5~7 days. Best bet is call the Japanese whole sale fish market and ask them if they can retail. Some place does on Saturday. It's up to your luck. Tue Feb 03 11:20:17 -0800 2009 4383945 242861 bigtuna27 2 4384458 Here's a link to an online source: (They sell S. Cal. uni. ) http://www.catalinaop.com/Sea_Urchin_Uni_s/70.htm Uni is one of my favorites, but as I'm the only one at home that eats it I can't justify the two tray minimum. They sell them live, too. (As you will see.) There is uni from Maine as well, http://www.seaurchinmaine.com/products.html Tue Feb 03 13:28:56 -0800 2009 4383945 95291 Richard 16 1 4391519 Hey BT27, Got that ticket! Being, admittedly, kanji-challenged ... I'd appreciate any pointers toward "deliciousness". Suggestions ... http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3449/3257040330_809c7d9093_o.jpg Thu Feb 05 16:56:09 -0800 2009 4197048 67783 TheDescendedLefticleOfAramis 2 4392037 Whale, huh? I thought you were going to stick to the fugu testicles: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28874327/ Thu Feb 05 21:01:54 -0800 2009 4391519 10312 applehome 2 4392871 When you going? Where you going? How long you are going? It all depends. Fri Feb 06 08:11:37 -0800 2009 4391519 242861 bigtuna27 3 4398691 autumn, 3 weeks, open plan AH: back-to-back: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9400EED71639F933A25755C0A960958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all http://joi.ito.com/moblog/entries/2003/08/31/002197.html Sun Feb 08 13:46:22 -0800 2009 4392871 67783 TheDescendedLefticleOfAramis 4 4400476 Best time to go. You still have time so I'll reserch and let you know. BT Mon Feb 09 08:44:23 -0800 2009 4398691 242861 bigtuna27 1 4468397 I notice this thread is from a few months ago - hopefully I'm not too late with my question... In April my family and I are traveling to Japan (nine of us!!) we have been planning the trip for a long time and for most of us it is the first time to Japan and we don't know when we will have the chance to experience the country again... We are a family of foodies and will enjoy seeking out some of the best sushi places, but we are traveling with two girls (6.5 and 5 years old) - how accommodating can we expect them to be in restaurants of the caliber of Sukiyabashi Jiro to the tastes of young western girls? Unfortunately I don't know enough about the Japanese culture to understand the attitude to children... we don't want anybody to be offended but at the same time we don't want to miss out on once-in-a-lifetime opportunities. Anybody else have similar experiences? Tue Mar 03 04:10:21 -0800 2009 4197048 247589 dandy29 2 4468972 Sukiyabashi Jiro at Ginza does not even accept reservation from non-Japanese speaking guests. You may want to try the one at Roppongi Hill branch but such high end sushi places are very small and intimate; the one at Roppongi Hill only sit 10-12 persons, and you are expected to pay around Yen 20,000 per person (around US$200 per person), so i am not too sure if you want to pay such budget for the two young girls. The ambiance there is also very serious. If you want to seek high end sushi places in Tokyo where the chefs speak English and the atmosphere is relax and friendly, I would recommend instead Sushi Kanesaka at Ginza or Sushi Saitou (opposite American Embassy), but again, just to remind you these are very small restaurants. Chef Kanesaka has actually told my friend he will accept kids for lunch but perhaps not for dinner, if I recall correctly. You would have to book the whole restaurant for 9 persons (Sushi Saitou can only accommodate 7 persons) and prepared to pay Yen 15-20,000 per person!!! I would recommend you to pose this question on the Japan Board. You are more likely to get more responses there. Tue Mar 03 08:37:45 -0800 2009 4468397 130720 FourSeasons 2 4469088 i would also suggest posting questions in the japan thread. there is a wealth of information from the posters there, and i have seen a lot of recommendations for western travelers as well as etiquette-type stuff. Tue Mar 03 09:09:45 -0800 2009 4468397 202980 dinaofdoom 1 4691931 Hi guys. long time no talk. I have new blog in chowhound about Izakaya. [ New Izakaya in Venice] Check it out and let me know. B T Sun May 17 14:23:31 -0700 2009 4197048 242861 bigtuna27 1 4692321 Sushi Man, thank you for providing the wealth of information so far. I recently ate at a little sushi bar in Coral Gables Florida called Matsuri. The sashimi was like notthing I've had before. chunks of salmon, yellowtail and yellowfin tuna that were maybe 1/3-1/2 of an inch thick that melted in my mouth. The texture was exquisite. How can I get fish like this at home? I've been playing around making sushi and sashimi at home but the fish is in no way like what I just had. More like the corner sushi bars around me. Even fish fresh from the ocean that I've shot has not had this ultra silky texture. What gives? respectfully, Scubadoo97 Sun May 17 16:52:23 -0700 2009 4197048 89493 scubadoo97 2 4696246 Hi. It depends on where do you live? If it's LA, I can show you few places. If it's Florida. I have no idea. Why don't you ask your sushi man. You may fiond whole sale market you may get in on certain days. Or you can ask for Japanese market. But you have to remember the fish you catch in ocean may be fresh but may not have flavor. It's not that simple. Like me ,I always work on fish some how. It may looks just fresh fish but not. There are hidden technics for that simple look fish. You have topay for that. no short cut there. Good luck. Mon May 18 23:05:41 -0700 2009 4692321 242861 bigtuna27 1 4790574 Why is it that everyone thinks their sushi bar has the best sushi? Sat Jun 20 13:32:04 -0700 2009 4197048 1086796 ankimounisalmonlover 2 4794856 I honestly don't know. But who will admit they are not? Mon Jun 22 10:03:38 -0700 2009 4790574 242861 bigtuna27 3 4795115 I think most patrons of sushi bars think the sushi bar they go to is the best one ever. If they get out and try different sushi bars they will try different sushi and learn new things. It's helpful for people to go when it's not very busy so you can talk to, ask questions and learn from the chef. If he is real busy, he won't have time to talk very much. Mon Jun 22 11:15:06 -0700 2009 4794856 1086796 ankimounisalmonlover 1 4792458 I catch my own tuna, yellowfin, bluefin, and albacore. Typically, the fish is put in a low 30s degree brine as soon as possible but not longer than 30 minutes after catching and filleted that night then returned in sealed bags into the brine. We dock the next morning about 7:00 AM. The fish is about 12-24 hours old since being caught when we dock. The belly section is also kept. I usually eat it the night I am back and over the next two nights. The rest is frozen or given away earlier. 1. The fish is very good but is there anything I can do to improve the taste? 2. How do you prepare the belly section? filleting techniques or cooking? Lots of bone and cartilage. Unrelated questions 1A. For tuna, Do the sushi bars get their tuna from the wholesale houses in downtown? If not, where to they get their tuna? 2A. Some sushi chef say they go to the markets everyday and pick out each fish personally. Is that a common practice? Sun Jun 21 12:15:58 -0700 2009 4197048 251532 bgazindad 2 4794888 Answer to your question 1.Blufin tuna; You can wash or wipe blad so that it will taste less fishy. Albacore ; Cure them with light salt for 1 hour then wash the salt with water. It will taste a lot better when you eat it raw. You can also sear them after cure them. 2.If it's yellow fin, pan fry them in butter and finish with garlic,sake and soy sauce If it's blue fin , best eat it raw but also taste good pan fried. Albacore; Sear them and eat with garlic ponzu sauce. 1 A. Yes they are. 2 A. It is the old fashion practice if the sushi man is old and experienced. Most of the sushi bar get them delivered. Mon Jun 22 10:16:09 -0700 2009 4792458 242861 bigtuna27 3 4796169 2 A. There are some chefs who might not go to a fish market, but their wholesaler / distributor / warehouse and personally intercept the cargo and inspect it. And yes there are those who still head out to the fish markets early in the morning to get what they need, in addition to sourcing to deliveries from overseas or via a distributor. Mon Jun 22 16:16:48 -0700 2009 4794888 12872 K K 1 4796062 1. I noticed that the price of Bluefin tuna loins at Mitsuwa is about $36 per lb. 1 or 2 years ago, it was $49/lb. Why has the price dropped? Is the tuna a different quality or is it coming from new markets like Europe? 2. I read in a Japanese restaurant trade magazine that all the best bluefin in the world is going to Japan and creating shortages in the US. Is that so and does it mean that we, in the US, are getting Japanese rejects or second rate bluefin? 3. A local sushi chef told me that he did not use "Boston Tuna" because it is not as good as it use to be. Do you believe that or was he just making a excuse for not carrying "Boston tuna" Mon Jun 22 15:39:18 -0700 2009 4197048 251532 bgazindad 2 4796155 Perhaps the difference is in farmed v wild. Most (not all) of the fish sold these days @ Mitsuwa/Marukai seems to be farmed. Mon Jun 22 16:11:23 -0700 2009 4796062 12873 OCAnn 3 4796299 Bluefin tuna is just now being farmed successfully in Australia on a small scale. Almost all tuna is still wild catch. Mon Jun 22 17:09:41 -0700 2009 4796155 36661 Sam Fujisaka 4 4796521 It is my understanding that the Japanese have successfully raised Bluefin from eggs and they are being sold in the US but the number is extremely small and I doubt that they affect market price. Further, No one has been able to induce or control bluefin spawning. The eggs are collected from wild tuna and incubated. I believe the tuna from Australia are caught and penned wild juveniles that are raised to larger marketable sizes. Mon Jun 22 18:35:58 -0700 2009 4796299 251532 bgazindad 5 4798126 Kindai are the tuna being raised from eggs in Japan. Export is very limited to the US. More on this topic: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/623816 Tue Jun 23 09:31:48 -0700 2009 4796521 11160 Pablo 2 4796314 Demand elasticity. Demand has dropped in the face of the economic recession. Just like oil. Mon Jun 22 17:14:53 -0700 2009 4796062 36661 Sam Fujisaka 2 4799050 . First of all, it’s nice to see old friends still checking my blog. Hi OcAnn, KK, Sam. 1. Less demand due to the economy and more supply because of farming. A lot of BF comes from Europe now a day. From Spain, Croatia as farmed. Morocco is wild one. Spanish and Croatian are pretty good and fill the needs when wild one is out. Moroccan one has less fat and taste closer to big eye. No body wants to carry Australian BF. It doesn't last long. It's very fatty but fewer flavors. 2. You are right on the target. But less demand in Japan means we are getting better one here. 3. I still think Boston taste best. Let's see its season starts soon. Honestly even though Bf price at the sushi bar is high, we don't make much profit out of it. Its kind a chef's pride and service to their customers. Most of the places are just getting break even. I wish I don't have to carry. Oh by the way I carry BF from Japan. Farm raised one. It tastes close to Australian one. Lots of fat but not much flavor. It also very delicate in texture. Boston BF rules Tue Jun 23 13:28:16 -0700 2009 4796062 242861 bigtuna27 3 4799192 1. When is the peak month or months for seeing Boston tuna in LA sushi bars? 2. Do you know what LA sushi bars are most likely to stock Boston tuna? 3. I am thinking about buying from American Fish and Seafood. Have you done business with them? Do you recommend them? It will be for home consumption. Tue Jun 23 13:58:41 -0700 2009 4799050 251532 bgazindad 4 4800677 1.Late July through early Sepember. get it when you can 2.High end or small sushi bar who cares and have customer who cares. 3.Amrican fish is good company but they are specialized in tuna from Hawaii. Try their sister company L.A fish if you can get in. You may have to buy a lot though. Tue Jun 23 23:28:01 -0700 2009 4799192 242861 bigtuna27 3 4799230 Hi Ooki-tuna san! Are you at a new susha ya now? Tue Jun 23 14:09:39 -0700 2009 4799050 12873 OCAnn 4 4800679 Yes I am. I am in charge of operation at this small sushi bar and doing my best to balance business and my ego. Tue Jun 23 23:29:26 -0700 2009 4799230 242861 bigtuna27 5 4802327 Congratulations & ganbatte ne! BTW, whereabouts in town is it? Wed Jun 24 11:30:56 -0700 2009 4800679 12873 OCAnn 6 4805348 It's west side. I love to see you guys in person but same time I'm so afraid since you guys are soooo groumet. Ha ha Thu Jun 25 09:53:38 -0700 2009 4802327 242861 bigtuna27 7 4807174 Would you please let us know what sushi bar you are at on Westside? I owe you a debt of gratitude and would like patronize your bar. Please include your hours. Thank you Thu Jun 25 19:51:29 -0700 2009 4805348 251532 bgazindad 8 4808286 Hi. I'm sorry I can't tell you. Not only I'm afraid you super groumet guys but also it's against Chow Hound policy. We can't use this to gain business. Let's leave it as a mistery. ha ha. Fri Jun 26 08:55:08 -0700 2009 4807174 242861 bigtuna27 2 4799401 "I read in a Japanese restaurant trade magazine that all the best bluefin in the world is going to Japan and creating shortages in the US." Not sure about creating shortages, but your trade magazine is not the only source that is saying this. This is just resulting in US sushi bars having access to 2nd tier(?) grade stuff which is probably the best one could obtain. I believe it to be true about the best staying in Japan, much like certain kinds of Japanese beef. Unless you have some wicked connections to get them outside of Japan to the US, like Urasawa or Masa (private buyers). But somehow I still doubt that even these powerhouses can get the kind of Japanese bluefin that for example Sushi Mizutani in Tokyo does. Bottom line, even with top distributors/big name wholesalers, if you are willing to pay, you can get a lot of things out there (right Bigtuna-san?) Tue Jun 23 15:05:55 -0700 2009 4796062 12872 K K 3 4800687 You are right. All you need is money if you are Japanese and know what you talking about. If not, I don't know. You may get conned. ha ha Tue Jun 23 23:31:09 -0700 2009 4799401 242861 bigtuna27 1 4800407 OK, I've got four questions: - What do you like to use sushi rice for besides sushi? - Any favored uses for black sticky rice? - Why does sushi salt taste so great, and what else do you use it for? - Yuzu. Best form for flavoring sushi with? (Fresh/powder/paste, what?) Thank you. Tue Jun 23 21:06:22 -0700 2009 4197048 40486 Cinnamon 2 4800701 You can make salad like pasta salad. You can make good fried rice with day old rice. Black sticky rice is commonly used for dessert in Asia. They make variety of rice cakes. You mean sea salt? Sea salt is not pure salt. It contains flavor from ocean like sea weed shell fish etc. It is a good idea to sprinkle on the dish at the table. Using those to season while you are cooking, is waist of money. There are a lot of other seasonings too. But Yuzu is the most common one. If you are talking about sushi only, infused soy sauce, citrus pepper, kabosu ,tade etc. Tue Jun 23 23:38:53 -0700 2009 4800407 242861 bigtuna27 1 4802013 1. A lot of casual sushi eaters prefer unagi over anago because unagi is generally softer/sweeter (plus an extra sweet brushed sauce on top). But old school purists generally prefer anago (sea eel). One of the highlights of eating anago at a good place is a properly prepared nitsume/nikiri (brushed sauce) and recently I had the pleasure of eating some anago sushi that while the anago wasn't spectacular, I particularly enjoyed the sauce a lot. As cgfan had mentioned somewhere in this massive thread, there's a traditional receipe that involves anago bones. So bigtuna-san, can you share some secrets of the anago nitsume making process (the classical way). There's something about a base broth (ni-jiru), then cooking the anago inside with anago no hone (bones) and the head maybe. Then mirin, soy sauce (anything else?) What's the magic needed to make it not too salty and finger licking good, and cook time to achieve this consistency? I read that Sushi Bun (150 year old place in Tsukiji fish market) their nitsume came from massive vats handed down the 3 to 4 generations, continously cooked and added on top so it is as thick as molasses but very rich. 2) Other than ni-anago, ni-awabi (abalone), maybe hamaguri (clam), what are some other interesting or creative applications of this anago nitsume at the sushi bar or cooking in general? Wed Jun 24 10:07:11 -0700 2009 4197048 12872 K K 2 4802241 Hi KK. I'll answer from 2 first. Nitsuke supposed to be made from the item you are serving. Ex, Niawabi uses nitsuke from awabi. But it's too much work to make each nitsuke so they usually use one nitsuke which is anago nitsuke. I use it for other dishes to enhance sweetness of the dish or richness. Think it like wine reduction sauce in French cooking. But it's little fishy so don't use it like balsamic reduction on salad .ha ha 1. You need to fillet anago first and cook them. Here is the method. I don't mind anybody using my recipe but if you ever become very famous like TV chef. You have to pay me ok? 1. Boil water with little salt. Turn the heat to low. Add sake and mirin mixture then add anago. Cover with floating lid and cook 1 hr. 2. Take anago out carefully after cool off little. Strain water and heat to reduce to 1/3 of the amount using mid ~ low heat. 3. Add regular soy sauce and mirin mixture and reduce until most of the surface is covered with bubble. [You can use low sodium soy sauce but adjust the other ingredients] 4. Turn the heat to very low and add sugar or corn syrup. Stair well to avoid sticking or burning. 5. Take off from the stove and let it cool off under room temp. Store in the fridge but let it out for a while to soften when you use it. This lasts long time. 6. You better stand or stay right there after 3. Other wise you'll fail. You can't cook too long but you can't take it off too soon either. You have to be very patient. But the joy you feel when you made the near perfect nitsuke is unexplainable. It'll make you smile even if nobody is around. Happiest time in the kitchen. Since nitsuke can be used for other items you can add scrap clam, white fish bone, octopus head etc. Just make the stock first then add it to the nitsuke and reduce again. Enjoy burning the sauce. I know you will. Wed Jun 24 11:05:12 -0700 2009 4802013 242861 bigtuna27 3 4805700 So there is no need to add any konbu or katsuoboshi in this ni-jiru / base stock for nitsume, yes? But do some chefs do this? Sounds like this can be mixed with some dashi to make like udon broth or cooked with oyako maybe. Super juice. Thu Jun 25 11:29:58 -0700 2009 4802241 12872 K K 4 4805857 You don’t need any of Konbu or Katsuo dashi. What you can add is scrap daikon to lighten up the sauce. Oh I forgot to mention. You can keep the heads and bones for next time unless you want to make double amount. If you do, you have to make broth separately with same method then combine together. If you add this to udon or oyako, it will taste way too strong. You better use regular way. What you can do is when you make pan fried tuna steak you can add little with butter. Again this is a very strong flavored sauce. It works best with Fresh water eel or Sea eel related dishes. Enjoy Thu Jun 25 12:09:27 -0700 2009 4805700 242861 bigtuna27 1 4806325 Big Tuna Sensei Not too many sushi chefs do this nowadays, but depending on the type of fish, the size of the neta (or tane) there are those who adjust the size of sushi rice pad (shari) accordingly for the nigiri. I'm sure you've done this too. So what is the general rule, ie when to make shari slightly bigger or smaller? Is this also a discipline for the proper fish to rice balance feel in the mouth? And then there are those chefs who even adjust the size of nigiri to approximate the appropriate mouth size of the customer (even more rare). And finally do you think if someone asked the chef owners at places like Sasabune or Nozawa or Zo (stubborn MY WAY chef / ganko oyaji) that if they can make the shari bigger (since sometimes the nigiri's are very small and then later $$$$ all gone), whether they will be insulted or not? I guess that is better than asking for more soy sauce, more wasabi, or a spicy tuna handroll... Thu Jun 25 14:01:34 -0700 2009 4197048 12872 K K 2 4808352 Ok. You are the only one can bring up this level question. I always adjust the size of rice. Not because of the kinds of fish but the size of fish I just sliced. It has to be balanced. Other thing I do is adjust the firmness of rice when I serve them with sauce or the neta is more watery item. It's not for the size of your mouth for sure. I took that as an insult when lady asked me to make it bigger. Because I was trying to do the best I can to serve best sushi then. But that was 20 yrs ago or more. I don't mind now. I think you know how I feel by reading my other comment. About rice: It is same thing as asking for soy sauce etc. Just leave those AH chefs alone when you are in their place. It's a whole package deal. You are paying for the whole experience not just their sushi. Just so you know, I still hate making those stupid rolls and other stuff like crispy rice etc. That's an insult to my experience and talent. But that's the biz. God is not fair. ha ha Fri Jun 26 09:14:45 -0700 2009 4806325 242861 bigtuna27 3 4809149 A friend of mine has another criteria for nigiri sushi, he looks for "dimples" on the side of the rice pad (shari). I believe this is part of the nigiri molding process, some techniques call for pressing the sides of the fish, so it forms almost an upside down U shape over the side of the shari. So what is your take on this sensei? Also some fish are more firm than others, so naturally the molding is different for various fish (again like you say depending on how it is cut). But I see some chefs, they slice the fish really thin so all nigiri shape look the same, no matter the kind of fish (other than the obvious like clam or a firm clam where you can't really bend or curve it. Is that cheating or taking shortcut? Fri Jun 26 12:55:17 -0700 2009 4808352 12872 K K 4 4810280 If you are the good sushi chef, it's a common to do that. Dimple is still lazy way but in America probably top class chef can do that. Me? Of cause I do that. U shape all the time is very hard unless you have very expensive joint so that you can do perfect way always. If the chef cut fish too thin all the time, he is the cheap SOB. You can bend clams too. You just have to know techniques. Easiest one is Mackerel. Hard one is Clam, Shrimp and Octopus. And Very delicate Toro like Japanese farm grown toro. Way too soft so it brakes very easy. There is always right thickness for each fish. There for thickness changes depends on fish. In order to make same size and shape, you have to adjust rice. Get it? Fri Jun 26 23:53:07 -0700 2009 4809149 242861 bigtuna27 5 4810293 In the first show of the TV series Kui-tan (The Gluttonous Detective), a murder is solved when he determines that this master Itamae uses the dimple technique for take-out sushi only, but does not do so for serving in his restaurant. As I remember, it had something to do with compensating for the lack of freshness. I wouldn't take something presented in a comedy to be very serious, but it was a very entertaining series and often informative. Sat Jun 27 00:22:08 -0700 2009 4810280 10312 applehome 6 4810319 Actually I remember after seeing that Kuitan episode, perhaps my favorite episode of both seasons, asking the head Itamae of my regular sushi bar, Morita-san of Kaito Sushi, whether or not they prepared the to-go orders any differently at the shop where he trained at in Tokyo. I can't remember the specifics but he did say that it was their practice to prepare them differently. I also remember hearing anecdotes about Morita-san's grandmaster (his master's master who lived above the shop) who although nearly blind could tell which of his itamae's formed the Nigiri for him by mere touch alone. And talking about technique, once Morita-san prepared for me two Maguro Nigiri prepared from consecutive adjoining slices from the same loin and asked me to compare them. They were night and day different in taste, as if the tuna itself tasted completely different. The one I liked was full of explosive flavor and was formed in his accustomed manner, while the other which tasted dull and leaden was formed in the manner of a novice Itamae. The way he phrased it to me in Japanese was this... The one I enjoyed had "air" in it, while the other one did not. Another time I was served a Kampyo-maki two ways - one cut into the six pieces of most traditional Hosomaki, and the other cut into the four pieces of a traditional Kampyo-maki, and was asked by Morita-san to judge them. Like the "Maguro experiment" above, they tasted completely different, with the four piece Kampyo-maki having a very balanced taste over the six piece Kamyo-maki in which the Kampyo dominated the flavor. All of this speaks to the magic and dramatic effect that subtle changes in the Itamae's technique has on the resulting taste, though I suspect that most customers would attribute these differences to ingredients alone. Sat Jun 27 01:50:34 -0700 2009 4810293 20300 cgfan 7 4811021 I know of a shop in Shimokitazawa, Tokyo that serves their Shari with air in it as well. It's called Tachibana Sushi. The itamae there, Koichi-San, presses a finger print into the rice then folds it over making a little air pocket. Big Tuna Sensei, what would be the effects on the fish of having air packed into the shari? I understand that it makes for a more refreshing taste but beyond that I am uncertain. Sat Jun 27 11:46:07 -0700 2009 4810319 226450 Notorious P.I.G. 8 4811120 Ok. Air doesn't make it refreshing or any other affects but one. The rice with air pocket uses less rice but keep the shape same to balance out with the amount of fish. So it will lessen the affects of rice part in sushi. And that make you taste sushi lighter. When you bite in to it you don't feel rice so much so you enjoy sushi better. It's like making the sandwich with thick bread and thin bread. Use thin bread to enjoy the main ingredient better. Use thick bread to enjoy bread taste too [Osaka style classic hako sushi is this type]. The sushi you are referring is Tokyo style so lighter taste of rice is better. Remember sushi taste is combination of fresh fish and good rice. Yet rice is always supportive side. I saw on TV once. The well known old chef made rice and showed that you can see through light from other side. That was amazing. So answer to your question. It definitely makes the taste better but very hard to do that all the time. Most of the chefs here don’t even know what we are talking about. Too bad Sat Jun 27 12:38:13 -0700 2009 4811021 242861 bigtuna27 9 4811155 Thanks for the info, and yes, it is too bad that this technique is not used more often or even widely known of. I also wish that more chefs would use the fish or shellfish's liver to top their Nigiri. In your opinion what fish and what shellfish have the sweetest tasting liver? Sat Jun 27 12:49:24 -0700 2009 4811120 226450 Notorious P.I.G. 8 4811712 I suspect that my Itamae's reference to "air" was meant to mean a Nigiri that's not overly compressed, as opposed to a literal indentation in the rice ball, though that was just my impression when he mentioned it to me. Perhaps it's a little bit of both. I remember him saying that he could make a lot more in the same amount of time by omitting that step, but does it for quality's sake. Sat Jun 27 17:30:14 -0700 2009 4811021 20300 cgfan 6 4813388 The Kuitan episode applehome speaks of is this one http://www.mysoju.com/kuitan/ (click on episode 1) but the explanation of take-out nigiri vs at the sushi-ya technique is seen in part 4. http://www.mysoju.com/kuitan/episode-1/part-4/ (around 2:45 mark) The "dimple" I speak of is created near the final nigiri molding step when the middle of the neta is folded at the ends so it forms a upside U shape to mold over the rice, thus creating minor small dents on the side of the shari. The "dent" created by takeout sushi, well the episode explains the reasoning behind that one. Basically if take-out or supermarket nigiri were made the same way as in the store, time and temperature (especially refrigeration) would make it taste a lot harder and nastier (those who have eaten supermarket refrigerated sushi will know the difference). And yes cgfan is right, the "air" in a shari can be controlled by the density and firmness of grip by the itamae's hands. Bottom line does the nigiri "melt" in my mouth, like a soft explosion of flavors (which is why shari to neta balance is important). See if this can be reproduced with 3 day old cooked rice :-). Sun Jun 28 15:00:03 -0700 2009 4810293 12872 K K 1 4821446 Big Tuna Sensei, So you mentioned making those large American bulky boggy multi-ingredient stupid name sushi rolls is not something you're proud of, but obviously it is a huge money maker (ingredients are a lot cheaper, sometimes mostly rice and seaweed). My Japanese friend once heard a Japanese chef refer to it is as Obake Makimono (I don't really get this joke but you Japanese speakers out there might find it amusing) Do you have any funny stories about these rolls you have made over time you want to share? What is the most "disgusting" roll you've made that you are not proud of that a customer wanted? Just to show you how bad things have come lately: - one place I read, just recently started offering a Goodbye Michael Jackson Thriller roll (deep fried tempura with unagi, cucumber, avocado, topped with unagi sauce and tobiko) - $7.95. This is a pseudo Hawaiian fusion sushi boat type place. This place also offers rolls named after cities, high tech companies. - Coi in Las Vegas has a $1000 High Roller Roll. From an online article: 1.) Using Hudson Valley Foie Gras we will marinade the foie and poach the foie in the sauterne. It is then formed into a torchon (Shape) to the roll. 2.) After the roll is made.. Langoustine (A sweet succulent Lobster) is cut into sashimi and placed on the outside of the roll. 3.) Saffron/Vanilla bean butter will be drawn and brushed over the lobster. 4.) The roll is then encrusted with the caviar 5.) White Alba truffles are shaved table side (By the Chef) 6.) 100 year balsamic is then drizzled over the top So yes, what are your funny stories about these funny rolls. Let's hear them. Wed Jul 01 10:17:57 -0700 2009 4197048 12872 K K 2 4821730 Hi KK. Well I don't have much. Your $ 1000 roll will probably top. One time I was asked by customer to make roll with eel, Toro and sweet shrimp along with Ikura. I told him in his face “Take a hike". The other time this guy asked me to make tempura shrimp roll covered with spicy tuna along with eel sauce. It was very slow that day so after few minutes of thinking, I made it. And I told him "Don't make me do this again. You are insulting me." He said "Why?" I said "It's just not a sushi. It's a rice sandwich. And I'm not a taco chef" Punch line for this story is I have that on the menu now Ha ha. Business!!!! Wed Jul 01 11:37:18 -0700 2009 4821446 242861 bigtuna27 3 4821802 LOL! Big Tuna san, you remind me of one of my favourite itamae. His name was "Tony", but he no longer works at the sushi-ya I used to go to. Whenever customers who sit at the counter order a gaijin-roll, he would say under his breath, " we have fresh fish!" or he would get a little grumpy...it made me like him more. It's sad that he's no longer there...I miss him. Wed Jul 01 12:01:16 -0700 2009 4821730 12873 OCAnn 3 4822003 " Punch line for this story is I have that on the menu now" the question is what honorable stupid name did you give this roll? :-) And do you price it in the double digit range as a joke? Seriously, one place up here that FedEx's fish from not just Tsukiji but also their own private suppliers for the occasional seasonal seki saba, seki aji, Miyazaki wagyu for $26 Japanese beef sushi (a pair), charges $16 for a dragon roll. So the joke may be on the customers who actually go there to order that instead of their in house chu-toro, seki aji or seki saba nigiri. One of my favorite chefs who was also classically trained in Tokyo, told me that he draws the line when someone requests a chicken teriyaki roll. He has his assistants make the dragon rolls and their cousins. I think one of the best weird rolls I had one time, was made by a Japanese chef from Kobe (who had no formal sushi training but a good cook). He used aoyagi no himo (the ribbon of a clam), chopped it up along with cucumber (aka himo-kyu) but instead of making the usual himo-kyu hosomaki, he made an inside out roll with the ingredients inside plus wild carrot. Then he drizzled a little srrriacha spicy sauce and a little bit of that artifical unagi/tempura roll sweet sauce over it (light application). I know it sounds weird but at least it was half weird roll half Japanese. Maybe someone can steal this receipe. Wed Jul 01 13:01:27 -0700 2009 4821730 12872 K K 4 4822320 I'm sure there can be an entire thread on the silly things that customers do at the sushi bar. One pair of customers that goes to my regular sushi bar on their first visit sat at the tables and ordered an omakase for two at $15 pp! If I recall right the first thing they got for their omakase was a negi-toro roll, which by itself must have taken up the entire allowance! But they kept on returning with the same strange request, and to my amazement the shop continues to patronize this pair trying to come up with something to keep it at $15 pp! To me I think that's overpatronizing a customer who should know better, but one has to admire the shop's willingness to please their customer! Wed Jul 01 14:26:28 -0700 2009 4822003 20300 cgfan 5 4824393 Tat's the spirit!!! Thu Jul 02 09:10:43 -0700 2009 4822320 242861 bigtuna27 6 4824999 Agreed...I mean the restaurant or chef could have easily given him something along the lines of 7 pc nigiri (common fish) + one hosomaki (like at some sushi-ya near Tsukiji Fish Market), like a nigiri combo that shows up on a regular menu. So $15 is about right on average for a run of the mill nigiri set (maybe $20++ in Japan or more). So it can be confusing when someone requests omakase from the tables, and the menu lists either chef's choice nigiri (combo set), or as "omakase sushi", or just "omakase" with a price. So cgfan's favorite place is actually doing the right and old school thing. Thu Jul 02 12:00:20 -0700 2009 4824393 12872 K K 4 4824390 I can’t tell you the name for the roll. I have to hide my identity. But price is $ 13. And it sells well. I had one bite once. It tastes ok. American sushi. Sushi is popular or getting there in China and Korea. But their sushi means American rolls. You know the reason. Now if somebody figures out to do "SUSHI IN THE BOX" franchise, he may be next Jack. Ha ha Thu Jul 02 09:10:17 -0700 2009 4822003 242861 bigtuna27 1 4824252 For nigiri sushi and sashimi, is there a standard size or amount for each fish? I notice that the size and thickness of a slice of fish varies from sushi bar to sushi bar and the slices are getting smaller. Thu Jul 02 08:28:16 -0700 2009 4197048 251532 bgazindad 2 4824404 There are standard size. But each chef's hand is different size. All I can tell you is rice grain has to be 450~550 per rice ball. 1.5 oz~1.75 oz per couple slice of fish. Enjoy counting the rice grain on your next visit to sushi bar. Thu Jul 02 09:14:50 -0700 2009 4824252 242861 bigtuna27 1 4826631 My mea culpa (Sliding into latticed wood confessional box, which adjoins that of bigtuna. I slide the voice door open) "Forgive me, father, for it has been long time since my last sushi confession.) Bigtuna replies with the standard "that's okay my son". "But I have sinned against the standard concept of sushi" BT: "How so, son?" "I am partial to oat groats for their better profile as a preferred consumptive grain. But unmilled, they don't stick together. Thus I mixed them 50-50 with Kokuho Rose white rice. Rolled them in nori with some stuff down the center, and the results pleased me enough that I knew it was a sin, and required this confessional. It was good! And gestational! And that Oat Bran effect!! (I digress)." "Oat Groats, eh?" "For sure, yeah. But remember the Kokuho Rose!!!" (pleading now) "Did they stick really good? The closed groats and the sticky white rice?" "Yes, Big T, like they should, with that endosperm open and begging." Big T pauses and pontificates before passing sentence from the confessional: "Go forth with said diet, but please keep it quiet, as there's sushi rules that we administrate." Fri Jul 03 02:02:40 -0700 2009 4197048 17562 FoodFuser 2 4827324 Ha ha. You are very good my son. I hard long time ago a sushi man opened the joint somewhere in Africa. He tried to use the local rice. As you know he found out it didn't stick together so he mixed with some kind of starch to cook with. He finally made it. If there is a will, there will be a good result. Don't worry my son. You had been SUSHITIZED long time ago. BT Fri Jul 03 09:26:24 -0700 2009 4826631 242861 bigtuna27 3 4828921 Bigtuna-san, I spent several hours yesterday with this thread, and it was time well spent. Earlier, maybe a year or more back, you were asked about nori and briefly responded about most coming from China...but what about the very good quality nori that does come from Japan--for example, Ariake nori (which I can get in NYC). Is there a way to distinguish various grades of quality nori or are there "labels" that one should look out for? I know that some packages (distributed by Mutual Trading Company) list Silver, Gold, etc but these come from China... Sat Jul 04 06:29:41 -0700 2009 4827324 204204 penthouse pup 4 4829050 Unfotunately very good kind nori is not available to retail market. If you can find a way to go to Mutual Trading show room,you can ask for. But again you may have to buy box. Then what you gonna do with them? Find Japanese friend and ask him to buy it on line. I think that's the best bet. By the way gold, ultra premium are the best labels. Good luck B.T Sat Jul 04 07:39:53 -0700 2009 4828921 242861 bigtuna27 5 4914431 While I await Big Tuna-san's response to KK's latest question, I can follow up on something I asked about last month: obtaining high quality nori. I have found a site that supplies restaurants with the grades mentioned by BT27 and which also sells the "gold" quality in small packets for consumers: NoriDirect at http://www.noridirect.com The price is very reasonable and the quality is excellent...the rolls literally melt in the mouth... Mon Aug 03 15:47:45 -0700 2009 4829050 204204 penthouse pup 1 4834171 O-Maguro San, This time I have a question about tekka and negi-toro maki. Very very very few places use small long rectangular blocks of akami (red tuna) for making tekka maki, virtually many other places just scrap the meat off the bones with a spoon (nakaochi) and use that as filling for the tekka maki. How was this done historically? The story is that "tekka maki" was gambler's finger food or something like that (iron fire). Am I being shortchanged by getting nakaochi or spoon scraps instead of solid akami blocks? And how does one order tekka maki with solid akami blocks inside in Japanese? How about tekka maki with no rice inside, how would you order that (a chef made it for me years and years ago). Sometimes the scrap tuna / nakaochi / scrappings from a spoon are a tad bit sinewy, and if you are lucky, a little bit fatty. So sometimes it is hard to tell if you are really getting chopped up toro mixed with scallions (I see more authentically prepared negi-hama from actual hamachi cuts, than I do negi-toro). So what is the deal here. Is this a potential way of short changing? Not accusing anyone, just my observations. Mon Jul 06 13:54:29 -0700 2009 4197048 12872 K K 2 4834537 Where are you seeing something called "tekka" with minced or scraped meat? In SF? My experience in Japan and elsewhere is that tekka is always akami. Tekka maki, tekka-don, etc.... I love negi-toro. My own preparation of negi-toro don would be one of my desert island foods. It's supposed to be made from nakaochi or scraped from the back of the skin or other off-hand fatty, sometimes sinewy bits. Unless I'm reading incorrectly, I've gathered from your post that you think this is short changing or inauthentic, but this is completely authentic. There are actually several fast food type donburiya chain places in Japan dedicated to tekka- and negitoro- don. Mon Jul 06 15:44:13 -0700 2009 4834171 10903 Silverjay 3 4834644 I have had properly done (in my view) tekka maki where akami maguro (thin rectangular blocks) are used, pretty much at the old school places, but this happens far and few in between. But everywhere else I go (whether it be the Chinese run, Korean run, or Japanese run generic all in one Japanese restaurant), the tekka maki they use is from meat off the bone scrapped with a spoon, or blocks of maguro not "classified" under akami, chu toro, or otoro (let's face it otoro is never used for negi-toro or tekka cuts). I guess the real question is, how do most of us commoners know that when you order a negi-toro gunkan or hosomaki, whether the nakaochi is taken from the correct position of the tuna or bone for that matter for it to truly qualify as "toro" in negi-toro? The fat content? Obvious some parts are fattier than others and some are just scraps that resemble tekka more so than toro for negi-toro. I dunno, perhaps I have this warped view of preparing negi-toro from the parts of the fish, like how an itamae would prepare aji tattaki (deskin, debone, carve out the body, cut up scallions, dice, chop chop chop into cubes, mix etc) or as mentioned earlier, negi-hama (for negi-hama gunkan or hosomaki). I've had nakaochi tekka don and negi-toro don (using spoon scrapping off the bones where there is some bits of fat inbetween the delicious mush) but once in a while, the negi-toro don looks more like nakochi tekka (minus the fat) mixed in with scallions and labeled negi-toro don and called a day. Nit-picking yes, but those who want to know what they are buying are curious :-) Mon Jul 06 16:24:21 -0700 2009 4834537 12872 K K 4 4835787 Sounds like some shops are just mislabeling items and also sounds like you don't quite have the term down. Negitoro is more generic like "hamburger". Some places will make burgers out of ground chuck and some out of ground sirloin. Some lean and some fatty. Disregard the "toro" in the name as it was given that to make it sound more appealing. There is nothing that "truly qualifies". Many places will add salad oil to the mix if there is not enough fatty bits in it. Anyway, this is just a stomach stuffer item. But some places will obviously do it higher quality than others with freshly scraped bits from good tuna. I saw Sushi Yasuda's crew in NYC doing this after the lunch service recently. A lot of inexpensive sushi places in Japan just buy plastic bags of it that they twist and squeeze like cake icing. This article in Japanese addresses the common misunderstanding of negitoro. Also, the "negi" does not refer to onions--> http://www.jubako.com/bn/index.php?1978 Tue Jul 07 05:44:31 -0700 2009 4834644 10903 Silverjay 2 4836965 Hi.KK First of all, I didn't know negitoro meant the way Silverjey found in Japanese sight. But I bet 99 % of sushi chef in Japan doesn't know either. Anyway Tekka should have solid akami not the scrapes or chopped tuna. That's the cheap way to make it since they get so many scraps in Japan. Here in America, we have spicy tuna roll and sells a lot more than tekka maki. So they supposed to be able to use solid akami. But we also have frozen ground tuna meat very cheap. There are varieties of frozen tuna available and some of them are pretty good for rolls. To order, just ask itamae not to use chopped tuna. As negitoro, spoon scrapes from skin is the best since it's the fattiest. You can also order toro tekka [my favorite]. There is a dish tekka w/o rice. But it's not in sushi category. It's in Kappoh or Kaiseki item and called tuna isobe maki. As nakaochi, unless you buy whole small tuna w/ bones, it's impossible to do that in small restaurant. You can only do that when baby local blue fin is in season which is now and late autumn. You can get frozen good ground tuna cheap and those local baby tuna doesn't last more than 2 days. So why bother. Although I used to get tuna bones from American fish whole seller with the price for the paper boxes they ship in until frozen one showed up in the market. In Japan they sell nakaochi separately with cheaper price at whole sale places but not many here. One more thing, for the cheap negi toro, there is a staff called "Toro-me-yu". This is kind a shortening to add ground tuna to make it taste like ground toro. All the cheap places use it and people don’t know about it. By the way have you eaten tekka using mayo as dipping sauce? Of cause I use my home made mayo for it but it taste almost as good as toro tekka. Over all, you are right on the target. You found the way they short change your tekka. BT Tue Jul 07 12:31:52 -0700 2009 4834171 242861 bigtuna27 3 4837034 Actually, I knew it wasn't meant to be "toro" like the good stuff, but I didn't know that negi was not onion until I read the article. At home I always make it with onion and it's good, but you have to use the white part of Japanese naga negi because it's soft and not too strong. I don't know anything about american rolls or spicy tuna whatever, so maybe I shouldn't have stuck my nose in this conversation. But negitoro was a staple food of mine for a while. Yeah, I sometimes got nakaochi packs at supermarkets as well. Tue Jul 07 12:53:23 -0700 2009 4836965 10903 Silverjay 4 4838511 Thanks again BT-san for your valuable educational input. The Japanese article you linked Silverjay, is quite interesting (although I had to decipher via google english website translation which was quite wacky reading) What can I say, Japanese terms can be confusing to some. Like "tattaki" in katsuo tattaki does not equal aji tattaki. The former is taking bonito rubbed with salt and seared over an open flame, allowing a dark red center and cooked outer layer, and the latter is dicing the horse mackeral sashimi into cubes with minced ginger and scallions. And negi-hama is typically hamachi diced up like aji tattaki but only with scallions, but negi-toro is spoon scrapped meat off the tuna carcass or bone (or depending on the cheapskate definition heh). Never seen a chef use spoon scrapping to make negi hama. Tue Jul 07 22:22:30 -0700 2009 4837034 12872 K K 5 4870745 I always thought "sugi" te-maki was always scraped from the bone ... go figure. Sat Jul 18 17:42:17 -0700 2009 4838511 67783 TheDescendedLefticleOfAramis 6 4871122 That depends. There is a picture in that Vanity Fair article written by Nick Tosches "If only you knew sushi" from some years ago, of Masayoshi Takayama (of Masa NY) handling a bluefin carcass and getting the meat off the bone. In some parts of Japan, maguro no suji yaki is a delicious side-dish, where the meat by the bone is grilled. Makes for a tasty side dish. Sat Jul 18 23:14:08 -0700 2009 4870745 12872 K K 7 4871134 Indeed, Suji Yaki's a fantastic side dish, especially with a cold beer. That's often served as a small side treat at my favorite sushi bar here in San Diego, Kaito Sushi. It's the perfect vehicle to demonstrate the orchestra of varying flavors one can get out of a good Maguro. The way Morita-san makes it one would swear they're eating an intensely savory piece of beef. http://www.flickr.com/photos/akatayama/3001478651/ Sat Jul 18 23:31:16 -0700 2009 4871122 20300 cgfan 8 4871536 Yeah certain parts of the fish with the tendons, can be a bit too chewy or rough to eat raw (hence the grilling and seasoning). One time this Chinese run sushi restaurant I went to, they served a cut of maguro that had strips of tendon on it, and tried to pass it off as toro. The tendon tasted like...string? Not that I've eaten string before. Speaking of beef, one of my favorites as a side dish is suji nikomi. Stewed tendon (and meat near the tendon), kind of like Taiwanese style beef noodle soup (flank with cross cuts of tendon), but these are in tiny chunks. Can be served with daikon and konnyaku. Delicious. Sun Jul 19 08:35:58 -0700 2009 4871134 12872 K K 7 4875713 It's somewhat ironic you mention "Vanity Fair" (I've never seen this article) ... my impression of this offering are far more humble ... more along the lines of some "marinated" fish scales (quite toothsome!) I was presented while drinking sake. Mon Jul 20 18:04:48 -0700 2009 4871122 67783 TheDescendedLefticleOfAramis 2 4837061 Hi. KK First of all, I didn't know negitoro meant the way Silverjey found in Japanese sight. But I bet 99 % of sushi chef in Japan doesn't know either. Anyway Tekka should have solid akami not the scrapes or chopped tuna. That's the cheap way to make it since they get so many scraps in Japan. Here in America, we have spicy tuna roll and sells a lot more than tekka maki. So they supposed to be able to use solid akami. But we also have frozen ground tuna meat very cheap. There are varieties of frozen tuna available and some of them are pretty good for rolls. To order, just ask itamae not to use chopped tuna. As negitoro, spoon scrapes from skin is the best since it's the fattiest. You can also order toro tekka [my favorite]. There is a dish tekka w/o rice. But it's not in sushi category. It's in Kappoh or Kaiseki item and called tuna isobe maki. As nakaochi, unless you buy whole small tuna w/ bones, it's impossible to do that in small restaurant. You can only do that when baby local blue fin is in season which is now and late autumn. You can get frozen good ground tuna cheap and those local baby tuna doesn't last more than 2 days. So why bother. Although I used to get tuna bones from American fish whole seller with the price for the paper boxes they ship in until frozen one showed up in the market. In Japan they sell nakaochi separately w cheaper price at whole sale places but not many here. One more thing, for the cheap negi toro, there is a staff called "Toro-me-yu". This is kind a shortening to add ground tuna to make it taste like ground toro. All the cheap places use it and people don’t know about it. By the way have you eaten tekka using mayo as dipping sauce? Of cause I use my home made mayo for it but it taste almost as good as toro tekka. Over all, you are right on the target. You found the way they shortchange your tekka. BT Ps. If this reply showed up twice, I'm sorry. I think I made mistake. Tue Jul 07 13:00:40 -0700 2009 4834171 242861 bigtuna27 3 4913782 I just finished reading this thread, I have to say ,BT27 great work I wil keep reading it for as long as it is up here. I have learned way more about sushi from all you guys, than I thought I knew..Good job all Mon Aug 03 12:30:57 -0700 2009 4837061 274698 pikiliz 1 4914180 OK since this thread got bumped up again.... There is a very specific and traditional Japanese way with regards to how nigiri and hosomaki sushi are presented on a plate. I'm sure this is an entire topic in itself. Let's say the sushi chef gets a big order for a table (or a banquet for to go in Japan). Plating and arrangement are equally important as part of presentation, as well as the type of surface the sushi will rest on. In as much detail as you can explain BigTuna-san, are there rules in which how you (for example) would arrange the sushi on a plate, be it a laquer round container, or an earthenware ceramic plate? Would you for example, place any hosomaki at the back, and anago in the front (and if so why is that) and what would be the meaning of the way fish is positioned on the plate etc. Mon Aug 03 14:19:10 -0700 2009 4197048 12872 K K 2 4919948 KK. You bring up tuff question each time. I wonder how you do it. Let me say first. I've been here for over 30 yrs and I wasn't trained to do MORIKOMI [arranged plate].So I have to say I'm not the expert to answer your question. I just tell you what I know. The rules you are talking is up to the occasion and purpose. Basic rule is not to interfere the purpose but to help in a way. Using lacquer container [sushi oke] or ceramic plate is up to the chef. Hosomaki at the back means that side goes far side of the person. It's just the marking idea sushi way. There are several styles how to place sushi. They used to build it up on the top of each other to show volume long time ago. Now a day it is popular to do flat with placing sushi slanted in few lines. Any item uses sauce should be in front because you put sauce at the last moment. It is convenient and be able to avoid dropping the sauce on other sushi. It is better to place main item like tuna, shrimp or any bright colored item in the center to make it eye catching. Does this answer your question? If not Silver Jay may be able to help you. Ha ha Wed Aug 05 11:23:17 -0700 2009 4914180 242861 bigtuna27 1 4920558 What a wonderfully informative thread I just spent an entire afternoon reading and I've found several posters who know so much about Japanese food and sushi in general now I know who to ask for advices when I go to California and Japan! Oh and Taiwan, KK. Now TunaSan I have some basic questions concerning etiquette: 1) I see you guys use "itamae" a lot. So if I go to a new place and want to get attention of the sushi man and introduce myself or ask question, is it okay to say "Excuse me itamae san..." ? 2) Sometimes at even places I go to kind of regularly, I notice the assistant and not the head chef makes my sushi and I can tell difference. Is there a rule generally who gets their sushi made by the best sushi man, like only regulars or big orders? Maybe I still need to be friendlier or tip more? Is it rude to ask specifically can I have xxx san make the sushi please"? For reference my sushi orders are usually nigiri 4~6 pieces of different kinds at a time, as I've found ordering omakase around here I get generic stuff (you guys have kind of explained the reason). Wed Aug 05 13:51:34 -0700 2009 4197048 68634 Dio Seijuro 2 4920994 Some interesting questions you have there. I'm sure BT-san has his own answers 1) Depends if the sushi chef there speaks and/or is Japanese. If the chef has a nametag that says Jimi, then I suppose you can say Jimi-san (and Jimi might be Korean or Chinese or of other ethnic background). I've seen older Japanese speaking customers get the attention of the sushi-chef by referring to them as younger (in the term), like Taka-chan but it is also because they probably already have a close customer/chef relationship and the customer is obviously older than the chef. Some books say in the old days the sushi chef (in Japan) was also referred to as Taisho (as in "general"). Apparently there are some taboos to call a Japanese sushi chef that these days, or it has to be under certain circumstances (and if so can someone explain that). And there are some who call the master sushi chef Sensei (as in "teacher" as you would the 7th+++ degree black belt karate teacher/tutor at your karate class), and I've heard Ohyakata (usually referring to a very senior member, perhaps the owner of the sushi restaurant who is in a position to take apprentices). But here in the US, unless you are dining at those sushi nazi places where you aren't treated like a king, you are the paying customer or higher in the ranking (so to speak) and the chef should at a minimum work for you and serve you (provided that there's mutual respect). 2) Well from the business side, the assistant chef needs practice, and/or the head chef needs a break, and that is inevitable at most non fancy high end places. The inexperienced always needs to learn and they can only do that by practice in front of a live audience. However, I do think the tricks are to time your visit right so that you get more face time with your favorite main chef at the sushi bar (and use that time wisely to get to know him and him to know you), sit in front of him, even if it means going right when doors open, or you have a reservation specifically in front of the head chef, or wait until after busy hours when he has more time, and/or ask the waitstaff ahead of time to arrange that with the chef for you. Wed Aug 05 16:19:08 -0700 2009 4920558 12872 K K 3 4921747 Hi. I think KK explained well. 2) In case you got seated infront of Head chef by what ever the reason. Be prepared to act like the best customer since you'll be served by the best in the house. That means pay respect and enjoy what ever was served and thank him. Big tip works well but big respect works even more (Specialy my case). Enjoy BT Wed Aug 05 23:09:02 -0700 2009 4920994 242861 bigtuna27 3 4922283 Japanese is a context-oriented language/ culture and it's usually not even necessary to speak the subject nor directly address someone by name or title. Best way to get someone's attention is to politely call out "Sumimasen"....But anyway, I'm partial to Taisho (not just at sushi places) with the main guy- 'specially after a couple of glasses of shochu... Thu Aug 06 07:23:29 -0700 2009 4920994 10903 Silverjay 4 4922835 Perhaps it is those wacky fun to watch exaggerated youtube videos like this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b75cl4-qRE that also mention the suggestion of calling the chef "taisho", that makes one wonder if it is still appropriate. The process of buying the sushi chef or master a beer, pour him some sake or soju, or share with him a glass of wine or champagne or whatever high end alkie drink these days at the sushi bar (elevated too often these days by "gourmet bloggers"....... ) as "part of the experience"....is it an American thing? When did it start? To my knowledge I've never seen or heard this done in Taiwan at Japanese restaurants. Do people do this in Japan? Thu Aug 06 10:03:34 -0700 2009 4922283 12872 K K 5 4923058 .It is most likely American thing. In Japan it does happen as a token of appreciation or friend ship some time but not as often as it happens here. BT Thu Aug 06 11:01:04 -0700 2009 4922835 242861 bigtuna27 6 4923779 When I've seen it, it was only at closing time when the service is over and as BT said, it was a token gesture from a long-time customer or friend. People in Japan don't just show up and start buying the chef drinks like you read in some accounts here from U.S. experiences. You don't even tip in restaurants in Japan. Thu Aug 06 14:19:41 -0700 2009 4923058 10903 Silverjay 1 4923955 OK here are some more tough ones for you. Perhaps more important than aesthetic arrangement of sushi on a giant lacquered or earthenware plate, is the skills of selecting raw materials aka fish/sakana. 1) BT-san without giving out too many secrets (unless you don't mind sharing), other than the obvious like "make sure the fish that is on ice does not have cloudy eyes" or "make sure the fish does not smell bad", what are some good to know things and must-know things for sushi chefs selecting fish at the market? Or any random tips you can share, like how to tell the difference between farmed sea bream vs wild sea bream, a male from a female? 2) Also, with the majority of sushi restaurants in the USA (especially the landlocked ones that have no immediate access to a fish market) go through distributor or wholesaler to get their supplies, sometimes not being able to see the product until it is delivered. Some might just drive over to the warehouse to personally select, but again it seems to be at the mercy. What is the ordering process like at one of these wholesalers (e.g. IMP?) Also do you get better access to quality fish if you are a loyal/frequent customer (even if it is not necessarily high end fish), or does it just come down to money and what you are willing to pay that is available and figure out how to make a profit on top of that? 3) It is pretty clear that the price of fish for sushi at the wholesale level has gone up for many reasons (especially those high end white board special Japanese fish)....in the last 3 to 4 years, how much percent wise would you say it has increased per year? Curious where this will eventually lead. 4) Based on your 30 years of LA sushi experience, how many places use their own private buyers to source fish? Obviously places like Masa in NY or Urasawa do and have $ to do so for some things they need. But do smaller name sushi restaurants do this too to some extent, or rely mostly on wholesaler/local or regional fish marketsr? How much $ can these private buyers make? Thu Aug 06 15:15:25 -0700 2009 4197048 12872 K K 2 4926557 1) Besides the technique you mention there are few. Touch it. You feel something slippery like fish body was coated by some kind of liquid. The fish is fresh. Naturally fish was coated by their own juice in order to move around smoothly in the water. You feel farm. Fish is fresh. Not only fish but all the animals’ body gets hardened after 12hrs to 24 hrs. No fish arrive with in the 12 hours after they were caught. So this means good. Check the gills. Here you have to see the color of the gill which is the color of the brad. Color of the brad turns dark or brawn if it's old. Bright red is preferred. Sea bream: Male is larger and more colorful than female. Wild or farmed is very hard to detect but you can look for scars or damage on the skin to see if it's wild. Taste wise farmed one is fattier than wild. 2) Some old fashioned chef still goes there to pick up their fish. Everything you guessed exists. It’s depending on the circumstances. 3) I don't know exactly. Some went up because of luck of supply. Some did because of fuel price went up [like the one shipped from Japan]. Recently Expensive item like blue fin tuna prices came down because of the less demand in Japan. 4) I have no idea. Since I never wanted to be that much stuck up chef nor serve sushi in ridiculously high price, I've never come across the situation to know. To serve very rare item is extreme gourmet. I just want to serve good sushi so that most of the people can enjoy. Sorry I don’t know. Most of the sushi bar relies on the availability of local supplier. To get good fish out of their selection is up to the chef's knowledge or power over fish market. For my case. I'm well known as AH when it comes to the quality of the fish I get in major fish supplier. Ha ha Fri Aug 07 12:31:10 -0700 2009 4923955 242861 bigtuna27 1 4965706 hey BT! Great post. I had a simple question about fresh grated wasabi. I noticed at a few places like nozawa,sasabune,zo the wasabi is somewhat creamy texture and pretty strong, but at urasawa, the was texture was more like rooty and they were in flakes, also it was not as spicy. Why were they so different? Fri Aug 21 10:12:28 -0700 2009 4197048 262621 peppermonkey 2 4966203 Hi. It is up to the chefs but there are 2 ways to grate. If you want strong one you have to peel the skin and grate w/ fine grater. If you want flavorful one, you leave the skin on and grate w/ coarse grater. I personally like coarse one. Because strong one can be found in wasabi powder version. Why make it so different? Hotness comes from oxidization of the wasabi particles. Finer the wasabi is stronger the taste because more surface of particles get oxidized. You can find this difference in wasabi powder too. Good question!!! Fri Aug 21 12:40:12 -0700 2009 4965706 242861 bigtuna27 3 4966548 thanks! I prefer the coarse one but no where else I've been does this? Fri Aug 21 14:31:05 -0700 2009 4966203 262621 peppermonkey 4 4967505 Well there's also the sushi chef's choice of grater, a shark skin (old school way) or using one made of metal. Of course where the wasabi is sourced from makes a difference. I've had wasabi that after freshly grinding, looks more like a kid's toothpaste...bright green. Probably American grown wasabi from Oregon/Pacific NW. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasabi is also a good read. Didn't know Alishan in Taiwan also grew wasabi, I bet it tastes pretty good since they are also known for high quality tea. Fri Aug 21 23:07:14 -0700 2009 4966548 12872 K K 4 4976791 PM, both Mori and Yasuda grate with sharkskin. I think you've been to both if I'm not mistaken. The difference you're noticing is fresh vs paste/powder wasabi. Nozawa and Sasabune use paste/powder. Urasawa, Mori, Yasuda use freshly grated root. Zo was freshly grated when I went 2 years ago, not sure if it's changed. The paste and powder stuff being too strong for my tastes as covers up the flavor of the fish. Which goes back to why I find those places to be inferior establishments and can't believe how much people in LA love them. Tue Aug 25 12:54:49 -0700 2009 4966548 13289 Porthos 5 4979223 well the stuff at yasuda and mori was still very different from the stuff at urasawa. At urasawa it was more like flakes and the taste was not as spicy compared to the two above, which makes sense from BT's explanation. To me, the versions at mori and yasuda seem very close to sasabune and nozawa, though i normally don't use much extra wasabi. And all of them are very different from the paste you get at the lower end places. Wed Aug 26 08:53:01 -0700 2009 4976791 262621 peppermonkey 6 4979760 Go again. You are mistaken. The wasabi at Mori and Yasuda is totally different from the stuff at Sasabune. You can see them hand grate it on the sharkskin board at the first two. Wed Aug 26 11:13:36 -0700 2009 4979223 13289 Porthos 7 4981665 i don't know about you but this looks and tastes like fresh grated wasabi to me http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z131/legacy_otaku/2008_May/2008_May_Part_2/08_05_23_Sasabune_002.jpg Wed Aug 26 23:07:43 -0700 2009 4979760 262621 peppermonkey 8 4981705 That looks too watery to be fresh grated, but more like some kind of preparation. Here are some pictures of what it looks whole and fresh-grated: http://www.flickr.com/photos/akatayama/2577603886/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/akatayama/2576767485/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/akatayama/2576786101/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/akatayama/2577648526/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/akatayama/62084674/ Wed Aug 26 23:54:37 -0700 2009 4981665 20300 cgfan 9 4982182 cgfan is right. Peppermonkey's picture to me looks like the "hon wasabi" paste or squeeze tube mix that some restaurants reserve for sashimi use to make the experience a bit more enjoyable (while using powdered paste artifiically colored and flavored wasabi for other apps). This is the kind that is a pre-made mix that contains some real wasabi (powder/dried) but is not entirely 100% fresh wasabi, and encased in a squeeze tube (and must be refrigerated), and these types can be a bit watery depending on the vendor. Bottom line, the restaurant can buy wasabi of any form or type from wholesalers like IMP, True World, or private source. Pretty sure at least Urasawa, won't use the $5 wasabi whole root (even tho it says from Japan) available at Nijiya supermarket, for his restaurant. Thu Aug 27 07:15:35 -0700 2009 4981705 12872 K K 10 4986640 BT here. There is another possibility. To me it looks like the chef mixed either grated wasabi or powder wasabi with grated daikon radish. I used to do that long time ago when fresh wasabi wasn't available often enough. It tastes better than powder wasabi and some how closer to real one at least the texture Fri Aug 28 13:28:54 -0700 2009 4982182 242861 bigtuna27 9 4982448 regarding your pics (nice!), how WAS the ice cream w/wasabi? And which 3 sushi-yas did you go to and which were your favourites and why? Thu Aug 27 08:22:02 -0700 2009 4981705 12873 OCAnn 7 4984386 i stand corrected Thu Aug 27 18:31:27 -0700 2009 4979760 262621 peppermonkey 3 4983028 OK I'm looking at a translated version of "Best Selection of Tsukiji Market in Tokyo" by Atsushi Koseki, and there is a vendor/shop that specializes in selling wasabi root. There are different grades (and thus prices) and the average person probably couldn't tell a cheap one from an expensive one, but just to give you an idea... Prices range from 500 yen to 2000 yen per 100 grams (2007 prices). BT-san, is the fresh wasabi root sold via wholesaler like IMP priced a lot higher or somewhat similar along those lines, and are there various grades to choose from (and if so how many). Thu Aug 27 10:58:46 -0700 2009 4966203 12872 K K 1 4966599 I've been eating sushi in L.A. for 30+ years. What happens to the leftover fish when the sushi bar closes at night ? I've always guessed that it's what they serve the next day for the usual lunch special where you get 6 or 8 pieces of sushi with the type of fish is always, or usually, chef's choice. Fri Aug 21 14:49:22 -0700 2009 4197048 11205 JBC 2 4966715 With apologies in advance for this not being a direct answer to your question, but wanted to throw in my 2 cents worth on the subject... A common misconception is that Sushi Tane is best when "fresh" or as soon as possible and is not viable beyond the first day. It all depends on the particular Tane and in part if the Sushi bar has the right kind of clientelle to ensure that a particular Tane can be consumed before it goes bad. In general Sushi Tane gradually improves with age then precipitously drops in quality. In this sense it's like a game of dare. How long should one, say, keep a good piece of Maguro to improve its taste, and when it's at its peak does the shop have enough customers to be able to consume it in its last day of service? The aforementioned Maguro is a slow ager, as are other items such as Kohada. Fortunately at my favorite Sushi bar I've been able to go on consecutive days and sample particular ingredients as they age. I've done this a number of times, and in particular with Maguro or Kohada. It truly is an eye-opening experience being able to track a Tane's development from day to day! It's also a very interesting exercise to sample some ingredients both when freshly killed, then later as it ages. Generally speaking, though of course there are the inevitable exceptions, I find that truly "fresh-killed" Tane has less taste than its more aged counterparts. Some ingredients are particularly tricky such as fresh Katsuo (which by no means is a small fish nor inexpensive) which can only be purchased whole but is a fast oxidizer. As such the whole fish must be consumed within 2 days of service or into the dumpster it goes. And depending on how much was put into service it may have been at a loss. Not all Sushi bars will have the clientelle to ensure that all four loins of the Katsuo will be consumed so fast. Note that for many items there are traditional means of preservation, so for instance various clams can be marinated in a way that allows them to keep long past what would be viable if kept in its "fresh" state. Also I'm not sure if most are aware that Ikura is available fresh only during a very limited time of year. (At my favorite Sushi bar Ikura is only offered during the 1 week or so that it's available fresh. At all other times of the year it's only used as a tiny "accent" garnish.) What most are eating as Ikura is not "fresh" but rather kept in a preserved state and frozen. Just my 2 cents worth... Fri Aug 21 15:23:52 -0700 2009 4966599 20300 cgfan 3 5086916 With fall upon us, I'm hoping to score some "fresh" saba ...not unlike "nama" ikura, this calls for good timing and luck in my province. As a somewhat oblique aside, the Aug. edition of La Cucina Italiana profiled Bartolotta in Vegas ... you might appreciate his "approach" if you haven't caught this ... the article is titled "neptune's catch" ... think "canocchie"/"shako". Wed Oct 07 17:07:47 -0700 2009 4966715 67783 TheDescendedLefticleOfAramis 2 4967507 "What happens to the leftover fish when the sushi bar closes at night ?" Assuming this is leftover uncut/unused blocks of fish... and depending on how many days have passed since the fish block was delivered... Short answer: Mix with mayo, chili oil or srriracha (rooster sauce) to make the spicy fish for funny name rolls or handrolls. Fri Aug 21 23:10:02 -0700 2009 4966599 12872 K K 3 4980196 I'll disappoint all of you with inside scoop. Don't get mad at me because I may spoil your experience. What happens to the left over? Unless leftovers are small chunks, no matter how good or famous that sushi bar is, they'll use them next day. They are not going to tell you even if you are the best customer of them. It's a business not gourmet game. Sorry BT Wed Aug 26 12:55:28 -0700 2009 4967507 242861 bigtuna27 4 4980544 Use them next day...as in the spicy tuna roll? How are they used? Wed Aug 26 14:38:58 -0700 2009 4980196 12873 OCAnn 5 4980902 I think what BigTuna-san is saying is that if the fish is still viable for use the next day or even a few days after, at least in appearance and texture, they will be served to customers in any manner. Using leftover "scraps" or "pieces" for spicy creations or tartare type fusion dishes, or even tuna poke, is one method. Hey Porthos, maybe next time you can ask Mori-san what quality of age of tuna cuts he uses for his spicy tuna tacos :-D The other is drowning the fish with assorted sauces like ponzu and condiments (fusion nigiri), to the point you can't entirely taste the fish or the vinegared sushi rice. The caveat is that there are fish, just like cgfan said, that are extremely perishable and need to be consumed right away upon dethawing and prepping, otherwise you will taste the difference (like bonito/katsuo). Then on the extreme, I've heard stories of someone eating 7 day old marinated saba and it still tasted good to them (and remained moist, just right oily etc). For real high end expensive fish, you bet that even if there are small chunks remaining, the sushi chef at the high end sushi bar will use it up to reduce costs, as long as the portion and size can be used (e.g. take a thick short slice, cut it in a way that it unfolds itself, and voila, long enough to make nigiri....simlar to how they "butterfly" a scallop to mold into nigiri). Wed Aug 26 16:48:16 -0700 2009 4980544 12872 K K 6 4981669 Hi KK . You are mostly correct. For the high end sushi bar, chefs eat those scraps as their late night snack after work along with couple beer or sake. That how I used to get lid of my scraps. Believe me my employees loved me for that. There are few ways to save the fish. But good chef knows how much to bring out for the day by intuition. If not they will be mixed with mayo for the roll next day I guess. BT Wed Aug 26 23:13:13 -0700 2009 4980902 242861 bigtuna27 7 4982204 Believe me I've seen some chefs take the fugliest looking uneven small chunks of fish, and after multiple slices, extend it long enough to mold it as one or two pieces of nigiri... Or they can do it tattaki and gunkan style. BT-san what do you do with leftover high end cost product (e.g. chutoro and otoro) that is not so good to serve as nigiri or sashimi? Do you - aburi (sear) then add momiji oroshi + ponzu (or yuzugosho) or -marinate in soy sauce and mirin (zuke) or marinate/grilled it and eat it yourself like a cat? Thu Aug 27 07:20:08 -0700 2009 4981669 12872 K K 8 4988211 Tekka maki may be but I don't extend the pieces. I don't serve no good part even if it's high cost stuff. Cook them and give away to customer as a treat. It's still fresh enough to cook you know. Sat Aug 29 08:16:47 -0700 2009 4982204 242861 bigtuna27 1 5007864 Bigtuna-san, I purchased some tuna labeled "nakaochi" from my local Japanese grocery store (only $1.99/lb.!). This is presumably the leftover ugly parts from the big maguro sashimi sale they're having for Labor Day. How should I go about preparing this? Tataki? Negitoro style? Do you know of any interesting dishes I can use it in? The nakaochi (they're solid blocks, not scraps or scrapings) look like the sashimi-grade fillets but the meat is much darker, almost black-ish, and some of the fillets have some sinew. I tried a couple slices raw and it's pretty good, with a stronger fish-taste than the usual akami. Sat Sep 05 15:32:26 -0700 2009 4197048 10832 Humbucker 2 5008577 Hi. It's probably tail meat which is little stringy because of grains. And may be little old. You can scrape and make spicy tuna. If you don't mind cooking, slice it for steak and sauté with butter. Finish with teriyaki sauce. If you don't like teriyaki, salt and pepper then sauté with garlic and soy sauce. Enjoy. BT Sat Sep 05 23:43:50 -0700 2009 5007864 242861 bigtuna27 1 5062476 Hi bigtuna27, I just read through your whole thread because as soon as I started I began to wonder about all the unsold fish, and wanted to see what you were all saying before asking more, for which I became a new chow member, thank you! I was This is the best sushi forum I've ever seen, especially as I'm another English speaker and can't read Japanese though I can say sumimasen. so glad to see you and so many good regular visitors here start to discuss it, with so much interest. Here's what I particularly got from it, then questions to ask you all to tie it together, please: bigtuna 27 said: "Ok. I have to tell you industry seacret. When you ask Omakase, it's not always best thing chef reccomend. Remember it's a bisiness. . . Shirom is kind a hard to sell item. So it's good excuse to get lid of them. . . My place is not a high end place. Just little better than avarage. Uni: Shell type will last 2~3 days in the frige and boxed one is longer like 5~7 days Most of the sushi bar get them delivered." JBC said: "What happens to the leftover fish when the sushi bar closes at night?" cg fan said: "... Sushi Tane gradually improves with age then precipitously drops in quality. In this sense it's like a game of dare. . . does the shop have enough customers to be able to consume it in its last day of service? Maguro is a slow ager, as are other items such as Kohada. . . I find that truly "fresh-killed" Tane has less taste than its more aged counterparts. Some ingredients are particularly tricky such as fresh Katsuo (which by no means is a small fish nor inexpensive) which can only be purchased whole but is a fast oxidizer. As such the whole fish must be consumed within 2 days of service or into the dumpster it goes. And depending on how much was put into service it may have been at a loss. Not all Sushi bars will have the clientelle to ensure that all four loins of the Katsuo will be consumed so fast. Note that for many items there are traditional means of preservation, so for instance various clams can be marinated in a way that allows them to keep long past what would be viable if kept in its "fresh" state." K K said: "Short answer: Mix with mayo, chili oil or srriracha (rooster sauce) to make the spicy fish for funny name rolls or handrolls." bigtuna 27 said: "I'll disappoint all of you with inside scoop. Don't get mad at me because I may spoil your experience. What happens to the left over? Unless leftovers are small chunks, no matter how good or famous that sushi bar is, they'll use them next day. They are not going to tell you even if you are the best customer of them. It's a business not gourmet game. Sorry BT" OCAnn said: "Use them next day...as in the spicy tuna roll? How are they used?" K K said: "For real high end expensive fish, you bet that even if there are small chunks remaining, the sushi chef at the high end sushi bar will use it up to reduce costs...." bigtuna27 said: "Hi KK . You are mostly correct. For the high end sushi bar, chefs eat those scraps as their late night snack after work along with couple beer or sake. That how I used to get lid of my scraps. Believe me my employees loved me for that. There are few ways to save the fish. But good chef knows how much to bring out for the day by intuition. If not they will be mixed with mayo for the roll next day I guess. BT" K K said: "Believe me I've seen some chefs take the fugliest looking uneven small chunks of fish, and after multiple slices, extend it long enough to mold it as one or two pieces of nigiri... Or they can do it tattaki and gunkan style. BT-san what do you do with leftover high end cost product (e.g. chutoro and otoro) that is not so good to serve as nigiri or sashimi?" bigtuna27 said: "Tekka maki may be but I don't extend the pieces. I don't serve no good part even if it's high cost stuff. Cook them and give away to customer as a treat. It's still fresh enough to cook you know." * * * BigTuna, Your last reminder that seafood past sushi/sashimi quality is "still fresh enough to cook you know" was great, and a costless business generosity. I come from a family which has occasionally been in the restaurant business, though no one these days, and I'm probably the only really adventurous fan of raw seafood. So I'm trying to get a picture as I listen to what you're all saying. JBC says different fish can stick around for different times, and even taste better with different aging; you say, BT, most fish around here comes from distributor delivery straight to the kitchen, so no wonder your "intuition" and regular inspection is important for deciding what to offer again the next day, since the details of how old a piece is when it arrives, and how it's been treated every moment probably isn't part of the packing list you normally get, you just deal with it as you see it, and try to ask questions of your supplier when you have any, but they may not know much or any history before they had the item, is that right? So to put all the pieces of this conversation topic together, I wondered if you could tell us, especially from the point of view of your experience in a better than average sushiya which most people would visit or can afford, how the food waste works overall. Enjoy your straight forward honesty in your thread. Perhaps the few key points we might all like to know are something like this?: 1) Is there special tracking or reporting that comes with "sushi quality" fish from wholesalers, like time it was caught, how long before frozen, how long it stayed that way, or you mainly just trust your supplier and your own senses? 2) Do suppliers deliver an order every day to most restaurants around here, or how often? 3) You've told us, how long to keep uni. I've kept fish eggs in my fridge at home for weeks if already prepared with salt etc. And I'm sure a lot that's put on display is used the same day, maybe most maguro. But what I naturally notice is how full these displays stay all through the day and night up to the end, and it doesn't seem too often that an item runs out. I never watched intentionally before, but I don't remember noticing itamaes going into the back kitchen for more fish very much. If we don't worry for the moment about fish eggs and unusual stuff, then overall, putting together all the details of JBC's different fish, how long do you think most sushi restaurants near LA keep most fleshy seafood under the glass counter? 4) Does it stay under the counter overnight? Lower temperature, or in a separate, colder fridge? Or do sushiyas keep lots of seafood in big, cold fridges and just bring part out to show in the glass counter so fish in the counter really changes more than once a day? 5) Overall, how much simply doesn't get sold in a typical good restaurant? Since you mention it's a business, I guess different kinds of restaurants shoot for different food costs, say as a percent of their prices, and part of that is food waste, but since sushi is all about raw quality and almost not at all about throwing out peels and bones, personally I'd guess your issue has got to be about deciding and trying to managed how much to allow for throwing away vs. offering more selection that's not popular enough on a regular basis so the throw away varies a lot or you just have to throw some out to make a minimum purchase? After K K's using up old fish as much as possible in (good tasting) forms that aren't as sensitive as nigiri and sashimi, what percent would you say even a pretty good-average sushiya has to throw out of its seafood? 6) What percentage do you think a "high end" sushi-ya writes off, including daily left-overs you say the staff eats, which is pure expense just like any physical throw away? Is it much higher since part of their charging a lot more is because they offer more selection that's less popular, or do you think customers at those places order omakase so much more that all that gets used up, and "high end" throw- away ends up the same as a good average place? Would love to hear what you and these wonderfully insightful, experienced visitors you've gathered have to say! I'm sure I'll appreciate my sushi (and its price) more, however you tell us it's done, both what saves us all cost in rough times, and what's necessary to put delicious quality on our tongues. Sun Sep 27 15:50:44 -0700 2009 4197048 1112362 omniedo 2 5062920 While I don't have the inside scoop of restaurants like others do...but with regards to question 4, I've seen one legitimate sushi restaurant clear out their counter, and saran wrap their fish blocks on plates, then move them to the refrigerator, and this is during end of business lunch (around the 2 pm mark). They then take them out to fill up the counter as dinner hours approach, then repeated when the restaurant closes for the day. In between removal of fish from the counter (which is actually a Hoshizaki or equivalent refrigeration unit) they (hopefully) do some cleaning and where needed, maintenance. After all, it is not a really good sight to see if the refrigeration tubes inside are lined up with frost (which means either the temperature calibration is wacked, or the chef doesn't close the door to the counter much, letting hot air go in etc). Restaurants also vary when and how frequent they get shipments or deliveries of new stock, that's entirely up to the owner/management (and also a result of what kind of turnover the place gets with inventory). Finally, there are also many restaurants who really don't make any money on nigiri, let alone break even. BT-san knows this, as the real money is in the tip$ and especially alcohol and beverages. There are restaurants that charge $6 to $8 for two pieces of uni sushi, and if it is pretty high grade, some might argue that even at $8, it is a loss. Imagine if Santa Barbara uni is out of season, and just to have a species of uni in stock for the restaurant, they choose to import the insanely expensive Hokkaido uni, maybe offer it at $10 to $12 a pop....will someone bite? Dunno. Will it be good? Well hit and miss sometimes from the tray. It is a tough business, unless you have lines out the door everyday. Of course the big name funny inside out Americanized rolls are huge money makers, because the bulk of the ingredients are seaweed, rice, maybe avocado or a tempura shrimp. $10 to $16 for a dragon roll? That profit margin is much much much larger than a pair of premium bluefin toro. (Don't hate, this is actually mentioned in Trevor Corson's Zen of Fish book). Sun Sep 27 19:59:50 -0700 2009 5062476 12872 K K 3 5065287 I agree with KK on question 4, having seen this in good NYC restaurants. Also agree with Omneido that BT 27 is truly a sensei. Mon Sep 28 17:09:45 -0700 2009 5062920 204204 penthouse pup 2 5067387 Hi. Thank you for reading all the threads. It must take whole afternoon. 1 There are no special tracking or report except few. Yes on fresh shell fish and frozen items. Other fresh fish items have to rely on your knowledge. 2.Everyday or few days a week but not every kind every time. 3.Those showcases are for display only. They take it down at the end of the day. Fishes last 2~3 days if not used. 4.They take out enough items to get by. They have to keep rest of the fish in better fridge. 5.Honestly I don’t know. It depends on the restaurant. My case I rarely waste fish. I don’t throw away. You have to know what you doing. [ I’m good !!! ha ha] 6.Higher end sushi bar probably throw away more than regular places. And your guess is right. Tue Sep 29 12:26:58 -0700 2009 5062476 242861 bigtuna27 3 5067538 One local restaurant in my area always gets Copper River Salmon from Pacific NW/Alaska (whatever the source is) for sashimi and sushi around the June/July timeframe. The season is always short (~2 weeks or so) but there was one time he had it into late August, and it tasted let's just say not very sexy as before. Which leads me to conclude that there are certain fishies that stay flash frozen until needed (then defrosted over a let's say 24 hour period or more). Likely an edge case, but who knows. I also saw a food show/documentary once in Taiwan, where a supplier caught a ton of bluefin (not sure from where, likely near Taiwan) and kept the whole fish in deep freeze (and unthawed when needed). Apparently they can stay in deep freeze for some time (so what is the correct answer, how long can they REALLY stay in deep freeze before it is not so good after unthawing?) Tue Sep 29 13:15:08 -0700 2009 5067387 12872 K K 1 5068097 Hi bigtuna, I've got a question that I don't think anyone has asked. How would you prepare baby octopus? I bought some of these (previously frozen) and simmered them in a soy/mirin/sugar mix. Pretty good but I might try broiling them next time -- great snacks to have with beer after coming home from work however. I prepared them by cutting off the eye section and removing the "stuff" in the heads, but I wonder if this is really necessary? I've seen on the web that people leave them whole, am I missing some good flavour? What is your favorite way to prepare baby octopus? Thanks very much for this great educational thread! Tue Sep 29 18:25:43 -0700 2009 4197048 18264 steinpilz 2 5068597 Try deep frying them after you marinade them with flour or some kind of starch. Making it spicy is even better. Tue Sep 29 23:26:44 -0700 2009 5068097 242861 bigtuna27 3 5070392 Sounds great, would you leave them whole or clean out the heads? Thanks again. Wed Sep 30 14:20:49 -0700 2009 5068597 18264 steinpilz 4 5071362 If you don't clean,all you have to do is spit the unatable part out when you eat. by the way it's not the head. It's the body. Just so you know. Enjoy. BT Wed Sep 30 23:32:15 -0700 2009 5070392 242861 bigtuna27 5 5072526 7 years ago one of my favorite places once offered the octopus head cut (cooked, no eyes of course) for nigiri. It was superb...totally different texture than the tentacles. Since then he has not offered it again. Thu Oct 01 11:07:27 -0700 2009 5071362 12872 K K 6 5140950 Hi. KK Recently my cusotmer told me uni from San Diego is the best uni. It was more than few people so I asked around. It turned out to be MARUKA brand and is big. I use MATSUSHITA brand and is small in size. In Japan, small ones are considered better kind. Becaouse it tender, sweeter and smooth on your tang. MARUKA brand is sweet but big and has little texture when you put it in mouth. I guess it's an American thing that big is better. What do you think? Thu Oct 29 13:06:14 -0700 2009 5072526 242861 bigtuna27 7 5140983 I think you're right. Uni from San Diego does not compare to Ezo Bafun Uni or Kita Murasaki Uni from say Hokkaido in taste or texture. I think your customers are misinformed. Thu Oct 29 13:19:55 -0700 2009 5140950 226450 Notorious P.I.G. 7 5141009 Well I don't know what Maruka brand uni is, so I looked it up. The closest search result is the mail order uni that every gourmet knows about, Catalina Offshore Products http://www.catalinaop.com/Roe_Eggs_s/32.htm Apparently they offer Maruka. I am not familiar with the various variants of uni across California, I'm sure they vary just so slightly due to the water climate and the kind of kelp available to munch on. But everyone keeps saying Santa Barbara uni is the best (even most sushi chefs), and that the absolute best of the best A+++ go to Japan for export. This is in California of course. Which also makes economic sense because why pay $$$$ for harvested or early harvested and trayed Hokkaido uni and have to charge a markup to your customers when you can get local or American uni. I was not aware there are uni specimens off the coast of San Diego. In San Francisco city, there are chefs who get uni from Mendocino County (mostly known for wine and grapes) which does taste pretty good in a different way. In my life I've had: Mendocino uni (once or twice) Boston uni - tastes somewhat close to Hokkaido uni, same with look and feel, but less sweet (then again it was shipped, and not fresh off the ocean) Santa Barbara uni (I think that's where 95% of Northern California sushi bars carry) Hokkaido uni (whatever the distributors carry and make available when SB uni is not in season) Canadian uni (frozen) big untextured clumps...not very good. Alaskan uni (brown, a little bitter but with a sweet aftertaste, during the summer, goes good with decent seaweed, sumeshi, and a little hon wasabi) uni in Taiwan (I had it at a decent Japanese restaurant the ex-president used to go to, plus at an izakaya run by a husband and wife from Japan) it's similar to off season Santa Barbara uni, a little bit strong, very mild and briefly sweet aftertaste) I like both Santa Barbara uni (or whatever they're called these days) and Hokkaido. They are good in their own way. But yes, bigger lobes not necessarily better, it depends on the species I suppose and what your baseline comparison is. I had Hokkaido uni off the shell one time, and it was super mushy to the point that I preferred it off the tray! Thu Oct 29 13:30:30 -0700 2009 5140950 12872 K K 8 5141206 Thank you guys. you guys made me feel secure. I was right again. But so you know the food critic from LA times preffer that big one too. I guess people go to famous expensive place and believe what ever kind they serve is the best even pro critics. FYI. Maruka is cheaper than Matsushita brand. May be that the reason those place use them ha ha. BT Thu Oct 29 14:32:42 -0700 2009 5141009 242861 bigtuna27 8 5141266 Uni from Maine is found in NYC markets. Thu Oct 29 14:56:31 -0700 2009 5141009 204204 penthouse pup 7 5141305 My vote goes to the Matsushita Uni as well. Unfortunately almost all of their distribution stays in Los Angeles, usually leaving none for San Diego. I almost never see it here, but this year I've had it on almost every visit to Kaito Sushi. Prior to this year I've had it only on two other occasions that I know of, both times also at Kaito. I just had some there two nights ago and I'd have to say that it was the best Uni I've ever had, even amongst the other Matsushita ones that I've had there previously. In any case what I find sets all of the Matsushita product apart is that it has very little moisture in it, which concentrates the flavor and makes it extremely creamy (in a thick way, very much like the cream that separates to the top of non-homogenized whole milk.). I suspect that most Sushi diners in San Diego have never had the experience of trying Matsushita Uni. Since I have I see it as a special treat, and I look forward to it each and every time I see it sitting in Kaito's case. One thing to keep in mind, though, is that the Uni will only be as good as the conditions of the kelp beds they feed on. Last season was a very bad year for Uni here in California, due to the damage caused to the kelp beds by the storms. However this year things look very good. Yes, San Diego Uni is very good, and so is Santa Barbara's Uni. However more so than the waters they come from I find that the best predictor is the processor it comes from, of which I find the Matsushita product the best that I've been able to get here in So. Cal. http://www.flickr.com/photos/akatayama/3988462733/ Thu Oct 29 15:07:52 -0700 2009 5140950 20300 cgfan 8 5143012 Since I started this Uni talk. I owe you guys little inside info about uni. About Matsushita [I met him in person so many times]. They are so busy and there are not enough uni to support their biz. They buy uni from unknown supplier owned by Korean guy to cover shortage. I used to buy uni directly from them. This one has same taste as matsushita just in different brand. Next time I visit San Diego, I’ll try to stop by at Kaito. BT Fri Oct 30 09:45:49 -0700 2009 5141305 242861 bigtuna27 1 5072651 I noticed something interesting the other day at a Sushi Bar I frequent and while I have my own ideas as to why they incorporate this practice I would love to hear your opinion bigtuna27. I noticed that right before they serve the sushi they drizzle water on top of it. I haven't been to any other Sushi Bar anywhere that does this North America or Japan so I'm just wondering what the purpose is? Thu Oct 01 11:46:50 -0700 2009 4197048 226450 Notorious P.I.G. 2 5073915 I don't have a slitest idea. Ask them. I want to know. Thu Oct 01 23:22:50 -0700 2009 5072651 242861 bigtuna27 1 5187019 OK the end of the year is approaching, so let's see if we can keep this thread going for another year! bigtuna-san: 1) There seems to be a growing trend of sushi chefs, especially those with kaiseki training and/or backgrounds, to incorporate elements and disciplines from that style of cooking into nigiri sushi. Perhaps Masa Takayama and now Urasawa are more well known for it for some years now, (and of course Mori Sushi) but it appears it is now happening at the very least in Taipei Taiwan. I'm wondering if this is a new trend, or if there are places in Kansai region that have been doing this for even longer than Masa? Examples....adding "foam" to sashimi or nigiri, like those fancy French or fusion restaurants, or adding some exotic small wildflower that you may see as decor for kaiseki dishes, on the nigiri itself (which works well visually on top of white fish), but more importantly, making the nigiri experience as elegant as possible (earthenware, plating, kaiseki style arrangements of kobachi, small side dishes etc). Part of me thinks this is really cool, but at the same time, this also means driving the cost and prices up. 2) Another disturbing trend is many restaurants now telling customers (or when asked) that yes "95% of our fish is shipped in from Japan", as if it was the best thing ever to do. Do you think this is the next new wave of making money to the unsuspecting consumer, and also a similar attitude to that thread you already read "are you sushi and omakase fans being scammed"? 3) What are your favorite local/regional/US seafood to use in your restaurant? That is, other than Pacific NW mirugai, Santa Barbara or California or Pacific NW or Boston uni? 4) At the counter, the most common place for the chef to put down nigiri is on a geta, or one of those flatter lacquered small trays. I've seen really clean counters where the chefs put the nigiri and ginger and wasabi directly on them (very very rare), some do it on earthenware, and there are very few that still place them on a leaf. Please tell us more about the history and significance of using the leaf. I've seen leaf on geta, and leaf directly on counter. What kind of leaf is commonly used? Mon Nov 16 17:17:33 -0800 2009 4197048 12872 K K