Ask Sushi Man

[bigtuna27]

I've read some brogs on sushi in here and noticed that some of you have wrong knowledge or info about sushi. I've been making sushi over 30 yrs in LA and more in Japan before. I'm here to point out few and give you guys the right info.
1. WARM RICE; It seems to me it's a trend in LA that good sushi must accompny with warm rice.
This is false. Rice should be room temparature so that it doesn't over power each fishes delicate flavor not mention it may warm temparature of chilled fish.
2.OMAKASE; Omakase in Japan means chef's choice of meal suitable for his long time regular customer not the chef's choice of best or unique items of the day. If you are long time customer of that chef, he will know what you like, how much you can eat and most importnatly how much you can spend usually. It doesn't mean pre fix meal nor sky is the limit rip off meal. You have to eat his food at least more than few times in order to ask him omakase. I have fuuny story you may like about this but save it for next time.
I know history about sushi, manners not mention how to make good sushi etc. You can ask me any questions you have about sushi or you can challange me about sushi knowledge. I know I can answer most of the q's. Over all I'm here to help you guys educate and have fun with you sushi fins.
Here is the sushi fyi; Modern style sushi was founded about 350 yrs ago in Edo [ Tokyo now] by Mr Kobei. He was a drop out chef and he only knew how to fillet fish and make rice at the drop out point. So he created the sushi to sell at his food stand to make living. At that time soy sauce was in the community bowl on the counter. Yak!! ha ha. He broke down common meal style[ Sashimi plate and bowl of rice] in to bite size snack.[ Like Taco stand--Smart ha?]

Waiting for your response. Let's have fun!!

[hchatterjee]

What is a good Sushi Kit for a newbie to start out with? Sushi Chef Sushi Making Kit
by Sushi Chef - ASIN: B000H241DS, Sushi Deluxe Book & Kit - ISBN-10: 1402729383, or The Sushi Kit [Hardcover] - ISBN-10: 0762413530, any other suggestions?

[huiray]

Are you aware that the "Ask Sushi Man" threads are up to the 3rd iteration?
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/817514

[hchatterjee]

No, i wasn't aware. Does this mean that questions are no longer answered or just that I should be posting to another area?

[vr666m]

Bigtuna27, why is it that an Asian buffet like IchiUmi in New York can have a sushi and sashimi buffet spread for $25 a person and a single roll in a specialized Japanese restaurant costs $10 each? The sushi chefs at the buffet stand fillet the fish and they look OK to me. Is there a certain level of freshness that i don't know about? I heard that tuna is a fish with worms/parasites and the worst quality goes to buffet places. Is that true?

[applehome]

Asking a chef with years of training to explain the differences in a single Internet post isn't going to to be very satisfying to anyone - questioner, answerer, or readers. It takes learning and experience for the eater to understand and appreciate the real differences. You have to put in the effort - it takes time.

There's a whole lot more to sushi than just freshness. Asian buffet sushi is to real sushi as fast food burgers are to steak. And even beyond just plain old steak, there's steak at a whole 'nother level - dry aged prime beef, or real Japanese Kobe or Mishima. Even compared to the "really good steak" at chains like Ruth's Chris or Smith and Wollensky, a dry-aged porterhouse from Peter Luger or an equivalent place is just a whole mouth-watering lot better. Why? The meat is most certainly better - but the real reason is that the chef is so much more knowledgeable and experienced, and the equipment and techniques used are at a whole different level.

Americanized sushi is to sushi as Americanized red sauce Italian is to the best Italian food - both in terms of quality and diversity. Imagine how bad chain red sauce Italian, like Olive Garden and Macaroni Grill are in comparison to what you would get from Mario Battali.

This thread is full of great information. You could read it a bit at a time and learn all kinds of fine points about sushi. You could also look for a really good Itamae (sushi chef), trained for years, either in Japan or a place with significant experienced clientelle, especially around a significant Japanese population (like LA or NYC), and sit down at the sushi bar and start a conversation. Ask individual questions about types of fish and the techniques used for each one. Try to develop your palate and your understanding a bit at a time - like compare the cheapest Tuna (Yellowfin or Ahi) with the real stuff - Blue Fin. If you can get a piece of O-Toro, a cut from the belly of a fat Blue Fin, you'll immediately see why the good stuff costs so much more, and is worth it.

If you want a good source of information on sushi, read, The Story of Sushi: An Unlikely Saga of Raw Fish and Rice by Trevor Corson. There's a lot of good information about sushi in general, including the history of Sushi, especially in the US, and what it takes to become a sushi chef. The book was also called The Zen of Sushi.

[Caroline1]

I don't know about you, but I think it is incredibly creative for bigtuna27 to have even thought of starting this thread! Very generous, and the man is definitely an "outiside the box" thinker. Bravo! And thank you! In the overall scheme of things, I think it's incredible that such a global phenomenon as sushi has come about from something as simple as fish and rice. I only wish I could have half the success with something like chicken and buckwheat. Ah yes, another lottery ticket... '-)

[applehome]

Hey Caroline - how's it going down there? It's been a mild winter up here, so I've been smoking and grilling all winter long. Still time for a tori-katsu party this last weekend (with flattened chicken thighs instead of pork). Lots of cutlets, some made into Katsudonburi, also made a batch of vegetable kare for katsukare (my middle son doesn't eat egg).

I give a lot of credit to Hamakaze O-Maguro Sensei... (aka Big Tuna) - especially given that Engrish is a second language (I kid, I kid). But the number of sushi-wise contributors, including yourself, KK, Silverjay, and Cgfan, that have participated here have really made this a treasure trove. Sam, of course...

Starting a thread here, offering your knowledge and years of experience can totally backfire, as we all know. Pedantry is a big no-no in this environment, and coming across as an expert only invites a lot of "who do you think you are?" kinds of responses. I think we might have done that to BT at first, but to his credit, he has stuck with it.

BTW he is on FB, along with a bunch of us - we manage to share things without worrying about mods and rules. Pedantry is tolerated a lot better by those that expect you to be pedantic - maybe because you actually know a thing or two!

[Caroline1]

Wow! If I lived closer, I'd invite myself to dinner! Sounds like a bunch of happy tummies in your neighborhood!

The Face Book gig sounds like fun, except I do not do FB. Or any of the other electronic "social networks." I've had some bad things go down, so why risk it? Did you know that if something untrue and totally detrimental about you goes up on the web and Google's search engine picks it up, you CANNOT contact Google to get it taken down? Even the web masters I had helping me couldn't get through to Google. So I stick with Chowhound and a few other carefully chosen venues and leave the wild and wooly world of social networking to braver souls than I! '-)

[bigtuna27]

Wow what a compliment. Thank you both of you. Vr666--There is Macdonald and there is gourmet burger joint. Pink slime or not. same thing. You wanna experience good sushi, you have to pay the tuition many times. I wish Chow hand had like botton,don't you?

[K K]

The answer to vr666m's question is not really that compllicated.

Buffets purchase in bulk quantities to draw customers in. Certain items will be a very low profit margin to a big loss (depending on the nature and cost, and what they are using primarily to draw customers in beyond having a variety of items....is the gimmick all you can eat surf clams, sea urchin, or is it the half steamed watery lobster with more shells than meat per person, for example?) but the net gain comes from high turnover and volume, plus beverage/alcoholic beverage sales. Some buffets can purchase mid tier quality fish, and the rest are not so good in general. It may not be as simple as "the good stuff goes to the high end restaurants", it is how much they are willing to spend. I do not have access to wholesaler information like BigTuna does, but I am guessing that bulk fish is available in varying grades.

Naturally a specialized Japanese restaurant will purchase what it can afford to sell, and at a quality of its choosing. The buffet places might go so far as to make the rice pads bigger for nigiri sushi with thinner slices of fish, and their rolls generally end up looking pretty hideous, versus the specialized restaurant, that needs to sell these to drive demand as well as profits and put in the effort to make them look very appealing, yet price them accordingly.

In countries like Taipei where competition is fierce, yet a plane ride to and from Japan is a fraction of that from Narita to any metropolitan city in the US, plus the fact that Taipei has access to a bountiful supply of seasonal fresh seafood of a gazillion varieties, the Japanese seafood buffets there are of a ridiculously high standard compared to our sushi buffets here. On top of that, many of the nicer buffet places in Taipei are owned by conglomerates that have the cashflow to purchase (and export) quality fish in bulk discount prices....I dare say a few of them even operate hotels. Plus the local salmon, tuna, fresh prawns, oysters, and even localized fish that are yellowtail or halibut type equivalents, are silly good tasting. So this refutes at least in Taipei, that the worst quality goes to buffet places....either that or their worst is actually our mid tier.

[Caroline1]

Well, there's one other factor that, in my opinion, is the major major major difference between sushi from a buffet and sushi made to order, one piece at a time, by a knowledgeable and well trained sushi chef who knows how to toast the damned nori, and who makes sure he gets the sushi to you to eat while it is at it's prime. THAT is what determines the price difference (and the taste difference!) between buffet sushi and the sushi you will get when you actually sit down at a sushi bar and each piece is made to order and put in front of you. NO comparison! Not even close.

[bigtuna27]

Few years back, my student chef happened to work those all- you can eat place then told me. He doesn't even want to touch tuna because too many parasite he saw in tuna. He didn't want to work on the other fresh fishes because clams are dead, white fish is smelly. He said his manager/boss goes to fish market and wait at the last minute to buy left overs cheap. Totally opposit atitude to what chef supposed to do.

[Caroline1]

So many crimes are commited in the name of sushi! And there are so very many people who think they've had "good" sushi when they've only had bad imitations. It's a shame.

[Rodzilla]

So I found a new spot close to my house with a chef that was trained in Japan and has at least decent quality fish. The problem is his ratio of rice is way, way too much. I suppose he does this after years of trying to appeal to please the masses with lots of rice and cali rolls.

Is there a way to tell him without being offensive that I prefer less rice?

[K K]

It's quite simple, you are the customer. Plus you are doing the chef a favor by saving on materials in requesting less rice. Just polite ask to have him make the shari smaller for your nigiri sushi. Conversely if the sushi was silly small, the chef being receptive to making the shari bigger, is a good sign.

[bigtuna27]

Just ask the chef to make it less rice. We don't mind. My guess is ether he wasn't trained in Japan or he is a bad business man

[Rodzilla]

Thank you both.

I think what happened is he got used to catering to the clientele around the area who are the typical "giant crazy deep fried roll" type. He was so surprised when I ordered ankimo, and that I knew what many of the different fishes were.

He was trained in Japan from what he told me, so I think it must have just been years and years at that location that made him do so.

The rice was still a great temperature and I enjoyed the consistency - I'll never tell him to cut down his various generous portions of fish ;)

[Pigeage]

Hi, Sushi Man! I am just now starting to read this thread (because you reminded me on Facebook - see if you can guess who I am!) and I am looking forward to it based on reading your first post - nothing to my mind is less appealing than warm sushi rice! This is a strange phenomenon that I can only remember happening ten or so years ago with certain perceived "in" restaurants, none of which appeal to me. My first question I can think of: how long at room temperature is sushi rice good for? 1 hour? Cheers, Pigeage

[bigtuna27]

By health code here 3hrs. But sushi rice is tossed with vineger based dressing so it supposed to last more than few hours. in Japan some place[ even well known place] use the rice next day. I know who you are Pigeage. BT

[penthouse pup]

Many upper tier sushi places in New York City serve nigiri with warm rice-- for example, Sushi Yasuda, usually referred to as one of the best places for sushi in Manhattan. Why would that be considered a "strange phenomenon"?

[bigtuna27]

Warm rice is popular way to make nigiri in Tokyo area[east Japan side]. Osaka area is well known using room temp or cooler rice. It's 2 different origin to their sushi and approach. I think I mention about this way earlier in this blog. BTW Osaka style has more history of sushi in general but Tokyo style is more popular way now.

[penthouse pup]

Thank you for the explanation, BT. As a note, I prefer the room temperature. After a while, the warmth of the rice gets a bit monotonous (not sure why since the same could be said for room temperature) but I do think it begins to interfere with the taste of the nigiri.

[bigtuna27]

Nothing should interfair or over power the best fish you make with include temp of rice. If the bread was the best you ever have you don't enjoy roast beef sandwich as much. Fish is the star on the stage not the rice. But any play can't appeal with out good co- actors. It's just a stupid trend

[peppermonkey]

Jiro says rice 70%, fish 30%. I think the balance is fine with this philosophy and you can still taste the qualities of the fish itself such as at mori sushi.

[bigtuna27]

The kid I trained works at mori now.

[LePetitChefCanadien]

Does anybody know how to convince someone to try sushi? My brother absolutely will not try it, (he generally doesn't like trying new foods, but when I cook new things he will usually try one bite before politely telling me it's not his kind of thing) and yet I think if he tried sushi(and didn't think too mujch about it) he might really enjoy it. He always says he likes "simple" foods and "simple" flavours and I can't think of a simpler food than sushi (specifically nigiri). I don't think he'll be likely to eat sashimi any time soon, but if I could get him to try, say, ebi nigiri I think he'd enjoy it. How do I get him to try just one bite? He gets annoyed if I ask him outright.

[Silverjay]

Try with a very good piece of o-toro and just a little dab of quality shoyu. It's simple, elemental, and has a nice mouthfeel. Ebi is just going to taste like shrimp on rice. If someone doesn't like or want to try o-toro, sushi is just not the cuisine for them. It's usually the most expensive item on a sushi menu and people can be often be goaded into trying something for this reason.

[bigtuna27]

Start with rolls. Calif-roll to start then spicy tuna roll etc. Once he liked the taste of rice & things he will go to next lebel Sushi then Sashimi. have fun educating him.

[EWSflash]

That's good advice too. Also, try to avoid explaining the nori- they'll probably stage a revolt because it's EWWWWWW- seaweed. BTW, seaweeds are some of my favorite foods but I didn't know it until I started going to sushi in the early 1980s.

[EWSflash]

Let them drink some sake while they have some sushi that's not raw and wait until they have about one sheet to the wind and slip them some yellowtail. I'm normally against sneaking ingredients to people but some people need help getting over a prejudice that verges on phobia. If they won't go into a sushi bar, give up on them.

[LePetitChefCanadien]

Is it true that a lot of places just use horseradish dyed green instead of wasabi? I read that somewhere online and I was wondering if it was true.

[ferret]

While it's not "horseradish dyed green" it's close. The vast majority of sushi restaurants use reconstituted wasabi powder, which is a powdered horseradish and mustard mix with some added "natural" color.

Real wasabi is fairly expensive and it's unusual to see it in most places.

[Notorious P.I.G.]

I have seen establishments use horse radish mixed with the green wasabi powder trying to pass it off as real wasabi. That's a red flag to look out for.

[thew]

95% of all sushi places in hr USA use wasabi powder, solely. so mixing it w/ fresh horseradish would be a step up

[Notorious P.I.G.]

True, true. Everyone should request real wasabi even if you have to pay more for it. Create a demand, start a revolution.

[penthouse pup]

Here in NYC, fresh wasabi is only intermittently available at local Japanese markets...there may be a season for it...retails for $108/lb...and most pieces are priced at $10 or so, which is enough for two people having sushi at home (if you can make it yourself or treat yourself to good quality take-out.)

You can also purchase real wasabi in dry form (there is a company in Virginia selling it and you can find it via Google.) I was disappointed by the flavor...

[Notorious P.I.G.]

That's too bad. The situation here in Toronto isn't that great either but a couple places will at least mix the powder with horseradish or charge you an extra $5 for real wasabi. We're lucky because there's a guy here that specializes strictly in Japanese herbs and can get most Japanese herbs fairly frequently. It's not the best quality wasabi, I don't think it's from Utougi or anything but it's better than nothing. The stems also pop up here now and again and are always a welcome treat.

Haven't tried any North American wasabi but would love to given the chance. I'll keep my eyes out for the stuff. Thanks!

[Rodzilla]

Chef Hiro at Urasawa made mention that the stuff he was using cost 100 per root. It was completely different than all other wasabi's (even fresh grated ) that I've had. I still got heat, but no semblance of anything close to horseradish.

[Notorious P.I.G.]

Yeah, that must be top quality wasabi from Izu Peninsula. Probably large in size with a purplish top and stem. (although, I could be totally off on that) Most of the top wasabi I've come across even at the stem has had a nice sweetness to it. (it starts out mild at the bottom of the root and gets hotter closer to the stem) The leaves and flowers also taste great.

[Humbucker]

What I wonder is whether most places in the US use the horseradish/mustard powder because that's what some of the first sushi bars that opened in this country used or if it's something that became ubiquitous when sushi became more widely available. Do most mid-range sushi bars in Japan use the real stuff?

[thew]

they use the powder because it is always available, does;t spoil, and costs less.

almost no places use the real stuff -

[Humbucker]

But was this trend begun in America or Japan?

[Silverjay]

Mid-range places in Japan, sushi or otherwise, use real wasabi. It's not all THAT precious of a natural resource there. Sometimes it's prepackaged and not freshly grated. You can buy tubes of it at the supermarket.

[bigtuna27]

Hi. BT here. Long time no see or hear. I couldn't get this open for a long long time.
Seems like you guys are having fun. To make it easy for all of us ,I'll open ASK SUSHI MAN 3 to continue conversation. Old friend and newbies are all welcomed. See you all there. I realy want to get in the conversation.
BT27

[mariacarmen]

o sushi man, i have read parts of this thread before, but it's been awhile, and not wanting to read the 500+ posts here, and having made searches to no avail (here and on google), late night wonderings have prompted me to ask you, all knowing, as opposed to posting a new thread and incurring the annoyance of all (tho still i may), can you answer the question (or can anyone else?), did sushi originate in China or Japan? I've heard China, but can find no real corroborating evidence. and what of Korean style sushi? which precedes? TIA!

[Silverjay]

Using rice to preserve fish, which is the basic origin of sushi, came to Japan from China and/or Southeast Asia. As far as putting raw fish on vinegared rice, that is Japanese in origin.

[K K]

On a side note there are Chinese historical texts/scholarly type publications that describe the consumption of raw fish that predate Japanese consumption of raw fish as sashimi during one of the dynasties (can't remember exactly off the top of my head) that predates the Edo period, but it was certainly not widespread and popular in China.

[Silverjay]

Raw fish and raw meat have been consumed by many cultures worldwide for time immemorial I'm sure. In pre-Edo Japan, going back many years, sunomono (vinegared) sashimi dishes, sometimes mixed with miso, were popular. There are still some around today.

[K K]

What fish were used in pre-Edo JPN for vinegared and miso sashimi? This is fascinating. What prefecture(s) can you find this style?

So "sashimi" in China was known as Kuai with a fascinating entry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuai_(dish)

or 鱠（なます) in Japanese.

"Commonly used fish in ancient times include carp (鯉) and mandarin fish (鳜), but salmon(鮭) is also used in modern times"

The Chinese page goes into even more depth of how raw fish is consumed in various parts of Guangzhou, of which for example the Shunde raw fish prep is like a salad, and contains garlic, julienne ginger, scallions, onions, julienne chilis, soy sauce, crushed peanuts, sesame seeds, Sichuan chili's ("pointing to the sky chilis", fried bean thread noodles, salt, oil, sugar (and eaten with cold fish skin too).

[mariacarmen]

thanks for all the responses! very interesting..... K K, your link above says there is no article linked with that name..... ?

[ursy_ten]

The closing bracket ) somehow got missed out of the link. Can you see in K K's post where it is still black whereas the rest of the link is blue? After you click on the link and get that page, just add the ) to the end of the url and hit return and you should get it.

[mariacarmen]

oh, yes, duh! thanks ursy_ten!

[Silverjay]

Sorry, been traveling a lot and have meant to respond.....I screwed up and meant to say "namasu", not "sunomono". The later is anything with vinegar but probably refers to pickles. I've never actually known the kanji for namasu as it is often written in hiragana. The world "nama" means "raw" and "su" means "vinegar", so I thought the kanji might reflect that. But it looks like the kanji uses a sort of fish radical. Interesting....Carp, sea bream, tuna, bonito, and salmon I have read about as sashimi, but I'm sure they ate anything that was fresh. I don't know regional variations. Today, squid and octopus namasu are pretty much available all over. Shoyu became a popular condiment for sashimi in the 19th century and it seems that has usurped vinegar and miso preperations.

[huiray]

KK, you mean Yu Sang [ 鱼生 ] (or yee sang or yusheng) when referring to that dish from certain eastern parts of Guangzhou, I think? Said to possibly date back to the Southern Song Dynasty? (Uh, "Shunde" form, could you elaborate please?)

The current form as popularized in Malaysia & Singapore in particular is delicious and is missed by me here Stateside. I understand it is available in SF.

[K K]

http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%94%9F%E9%AD%9A%E7%89%87

Yu Sang is a Cantonese name, also as you said, popularly used as a term for a raw fish dish in SE Asia.

Shunde style yu sang 順德魚生 for those who cannot read Chinese, basically describes the usage of a local freshwater fish weighing about 750 grams, and after catching it from the river or stream, is kept in an enclosure and allowed to starve so to burn off excess fat, killed via two cuts (one towards the tail end) to bleed off the fish. Then after slicing, refrigerated in order to create the desired texture and flavor.

Here's an online article about the fish as served 3 way (in addition to raw

)

http://bbs.tiexue.net/post2_3957404_1...

[huiray]

Thanks, KK.

[dijon]

I'm getting more imitation krab these days when ordering omakase or some named rolls in which each chef has some choice. There would be no offense in requesting "no krab" when ordering chef's choice, right?

[joonjoon]

Even when ordering regular sushi plates I request no egg, no krab. I hate when they throw that shit in.

[EWSflash]

I used to just love tamago nigiri sushi when it was house-made, now it seems like everybody gets it precooked and it's gross, like a pan full of scrambled eggs from a carton- vaguely similar to the real thing, but missing the mark. It's not that hard to make, I can do it myself, and have, and I guess I'll make it myself from now on to fill that flavor/texture craving.

[Richard 16]

I would hope get that simply asking for the *type* of crab used would get an honest answer. Quite frankly if the menu has "crab" we should be able to automatically get actual crab and not some substitute,
OTOH "krab" (or any similar euphemism) isn't *bad* per se, but calling it "crab" is wrong. I prefer (as with most of us) the real thing, but I've been known to order Krab occasionally.

[beachmouse]

In Florida, state law says that restaurants have a legal responsibility for the fish or seafood consumed by the restaurant-goer to be what it was stated to be on the menu. Originally, the idea was to keep restaurant owners from passing off the cheaper mahi/dolphin as the more expensive grouper or red snapper.

But if you read the state inspection and lab testing reports, the number one mislabeling action that's acted upon by the state now seems to involve sushi and restaurants advertising crab on the dish but serving krab instead.

[bigtuna27]

If you are ordering Omakase and getting krab, don't go there. That's it. Bad sushi bar

[thew]

Surimi is not looked down upon in japan. it is a much loved product.

[bigtuna27]

Not as sushi use. Cheep sushi use them.

[MVNYC]

Hot Dogs are not looked down upon in the US. They are a much beloved product.

They are not served however in a fine steak house.

[justbeingpolite]

Hi bigtuna,
I didn't have the patience to read the entire thread, but I've had a question re: the difference between white tuna and mutsu, and which is albacore tuna, marlin, or escolar?
Is escolar really banned in Japan?
if you've already answered this, just tell me and I'll read more carefully
thanks,

[bigtuna27]

Hope this thread opens when you try next time. Ok here it is. Mutsu is in a family of white tuna/escolar. Albacore tuna is neather marlin nor escolar.. It stands as albacore. Smaller tuna with whiter meat. Canned charie tuna use them I think. Escolar is banned in Japan and soon in Hawaii.

[justbeingpolite]

Great. So.. what's the nigiri term for marlin?
I have to admit to liking mutsu (escolar, I assume), and I've never suffered from gi distress after. White tuna is escolar, you're saying? Which as I understand it, is also known as snake makeral.

[bigtuna27]

Kajiki

[OCAnn]

bigtuna-san, did you see this post on Not About Food?
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/303062 | Sushi Etiquette Questions

I think it needs your input. =)

[bigtuna27]

hi OCAnn. Finally I can open this threds after complained so many times to chow. Any way they don't need my input. Silverjey was taking care of it and KK finished them.

[tatamagouche]

Reviving an old post with a couple of specific questions.

1. Recently had a roll with fried oysters in it—which I could've sworn were actually smoked, not fresh-fried oysters. A, is that a possibility? B, I know raw oysters aren't often used for traditional sushi—are fried oysters? I'm guessing not?

2. Of course I'm aware that rolls baked with mayo, filled with cream cheese, etc. are untraditional. But what about these things: A) using more than one type of fish in maki B) topping or rolling as well as filling maki with fish? Are those things done in Japan or only in the West?

Thanks!

[K K]

Actually I was quite surprised to learn from Sakamoto Kazuo's book "Sushi Techo" , a mini pocket book detailing 94 kinds of commonly seen seafood in Japan used as sushi, that oyster is one of them. Perhaps not widely available in every sushi bar, but fresh nonetheless.

The oyster featured in the book is Iwagaki, some harvested around Kyushuu, and is wild.

[tatamagouche]

Huh! Interesting.

Got any thoughts on the other Qs, KK? I know you know a lot...

[K K]

The only time you (should) see fried oysters at a Japanese run restaurant (whose focus is on cooked food) is perhaps kaki furai (literally, deep fried oysters), either as a side dish, or in a set meal with rice, miso soup, pickled veg appetizer. That same restaurant probably also has ebi furai (deep fried prawns) set meal. Also very likely seen at some Japanese tapas bar (e.g. izakaya or fusion izakaya). You dip that stuff with tonkatsu sauce (that is like a much thicker Worcestershire) and maybe it comes with or served on shredded lettuce.

[tatamagouche]

Yeah, they had exactly two oyster dishes: kaki fry (as it was called) as an appetizer or this oyster roll. The fact that they had only those, and that it's a fairly cheap place, only added to my sense that they tasted smoked/tinned, because I can't imagine a low-end joint would shell out for raw oysters only to deep-fry them for two dishes that probably no one in Denver's ever ordered but me.

[Silverjay]

1. I've never seen nor heard of maki-zushi with oysters, smoked food, or fried food anywhere in Japan. I assume they might serve something like this at the one or two "American" style sushi places in Tokyo. Raw oyster gunkan-maki is not that unusual throughout Japan though. I had some the other day on an island in the south of Japan.

2. The most frequent types of seafood I've seen in standard maki-zushi are akami maguro, negi toro, and ikura- and never together. Basically tekka-maki, negi toro maki/te-maki, and ikura te-maki. Seafood in maki just isn't that often done. The list of standard maki items, that would be available at like 90+% of sushi shops, is rather limited. Maki are more or less, considered stomach stuffer/ tummy toppers at the end of the meal. The last time I dined at a Ginza sushi shop, I was served a maki with the remnant bits of arc shell clam as my tummy topper.

The most creative maki rolls you are likely to encounter in Japan are at small maki specialist shops that sell big "futomaki" as takeaway gift items. But these usually contain raw or pickled vegetables, egg, and maybe cooked fish or eel. Honestly though, I think these are more ornamental then actual delicacies. No one's going to make a meal out of them either.

[K K]

How did they season your raw oyster gunkan maki? Sea salt?

Last time I had oyster nigiri, they splashed ponzu all over, some scallions, momiji oroshi, and called it a day (then again very common how they serve raw oysters on the shell at most California sushi bars).

[Silverjay]

Kewpie mayonnaise, avocado chunks, and little sprinkles of panko. Just kiddin'. Yeah, a bit of sea salt.

[lost squirrel]

No one except for me :-)
Sometimes I get a hankering and grab two for a quick lunch.

[tatamagouche]

So basically *all* maki but those few basics are American inventions?

[Silverjay]

Basically, yes. There's no dragon rolls or spider rolls or anything with fried stuff or multiple seafood items in Japanese maki. It's more plain Jane simple like natto or cucumber or pickled gourd. Minced faux crab with mayo gunkan maki though can be found at cheap places. But again, these are all cheapy end of the meal things or shit you give to kids.

[Silverjay]

I feel I need to add the following- what I wrote was in regards to the majority of sushi restaurants. What people make at home may be completely different.You can buy nori sheets and bamboo rolling mats at any supermarket. And I'm sure Japanese home cooks are pimping out rolls for their family. But there is generally a conventional wisdom or maybe more accurately, Japanese eating sensibility, that would guide people on what they would put in maki. Certainly, this would exclude stuff like mutiple seafoods, drenching in sauce, fried foods, etc.

[tatamagouche]

Got it. Thanks. I knew a lot of them were American but I didn't know virtually all of them were.

Here's another question: any suggestions on how to teach oneself to appreciate natto? I don't like not liking things, and natto's one of the very few I really can't abide. I enjoy lots of other fermented foods and can't figure out why this one eludes me. I mean, are there training wheels, the way that cocktail sauce and horseradish can serve as training wheels for raw oysters?

[Silverjay]

Ha! I hate the stuff myself. My wife cooks it all the time and stinks up the place. Sorry, can't help you there!

[OCAnn]

I like natto. Mr OCAnn will eat it with LOTS of rice. Instead of horseradish, you can add karashi/yellow mustard. To change it around a bit, you can substitute soy sauce with ajipon (I prefer shoyu, but a sister prefers ajipon). If you like raw egg, you can add one (or just the yolk) and some aonori or ajinori. Hopefully, some of these things will take the edge off the smell; most folks just can't stand the texture (but if you like okra, it shouldn't be too far a stretch).

[tatamagouche]

Will give these a shot. The texture bothers me in combo with the smell; with the latter blunted a bit, I think the former wouldn't be a problem. Thanks!

[K K]

Yeah natto can be an aquired taste. I remember the better half once tried a small spoon from a supermarket and then threw up in the sink afterwards, but also because I didn't know as a noob, that you're supposed to stir the hell out of the mix before you consume it.

They say you have to stir at least 500 times. Once the stuff starts to foam, you're getting there. I guess that's cheap molecular gastronomy right there.....foamy natto.

Another thing you can do I suppose is lightly boil it to wash away the stickeyness, which is how lots of moms make natto spaghetti.

Those who like the sticky gooey stuff sometimes blend in yamaimo (mountain yam) and the hardcore mix it with mekabu (a very gooey kind of seaweed that sometimes stinks but not in a bad way). If you dare, get all three in a gunkan maki, and you will impress the hell out of your neighboring Japanese eaters at the sushi bar (should it be a legit Japanese run sushi joint).

Should you find a Japanese restuarant that makes their own natto, it is a lot more palatable than the frozen packets from supermarkets. I'm lucky to be able to find a place here that makes their own tofu and natto, but he will only serve the natto with maguro, then season it (maguro natto appetizer), and it is out of this world.

But should you re-try natto, perhaps hikwari natto (using small beans) is a better way to go. Lots of sushi restaurants get this huge whipped cream toothpaste like squeeze tube (that is essentially finely chopped hikiwari natto) that's a helluva lot smoother than the regular beans at your Asian supermarket.

There's lots of varieties of natto too...haven't tried the black bean natto yet. The organic ones are generally a tad bit better. Many come with different sauce packets, sometimes no mustard. The ones that come with a konbu paste thick yellowy sauce, are also aquired tastes. Personally soy sauce and hella wasabi squeeze tube, help make it all more palatable. Now I think I can stomach natto...but kusaya (rotten fish that smells like someone took a dump on a plate) I dunno.

Can't really suggest other ways to make natto more palatable. Maybe deep fry, smoke them, then put it into a cream cheese avocado mac nuts basil chopped spicy inside out roll and call it Victoria's Secret roll?

[tatamagouche]

Ha—that would likely make it more palatable, but hardly be conducive to my learning to like it per se.

There is a sushi bar in Boulder that makes its own natto; maybe I'll go there and see what they can teach me.

Beyond that I'm going to try some of your and OCAnn's suggestions. Thanks!

[OCAnn]

LOL @ Vic Secret roll.

Do you get your tofu from San Jose Tofu Company (www.sjtofu.com)?

[lost squirrel]

My sister claims the black bean natto is much milder than run-of-the mill varieties, it's the only kind she actually enjoys eating. Give that a try, but don't forget to add soy, ginger and green onions!

[cgfan]

Although I don't see the logic in making oneself like something they just don't like, here's a tip. This is along the lines of the observation that if one is not prepared for certain tastes, or more specifically not know what kind of taste to look for, then it makes things difficult to enjoy. Expectation can play a major role in enjoying the taste of many items, especially for those things were you may already have a bit of anxiety over, such as in Natto.

That being said, you say you like fermented foods. That's great. But more specifically do you:

* like malty tastes
* like strong smelling cheeses

If so, you are set to go. The next time you have Natto, try to key in on the taste of malt. You will find similar flavors in Natto.

Also if you like smelly cheeses you will find that Natto has a distinct smell of a strong cheese, so look for that the next time you have Natto. Also much like some smelly cheeses, the taste is actually much milder than its smell. Look for that too and try to key in on the malty taste.

I've given the same suggestions to many who are new to Natto and almost without fail it works. (It will not work, however, if you answer No to those questions. In fact if you answered No to those questions, than it's probable that Natto is not for you...)

A final piece of advice is if you are eating this at home, make sure you allow the Natto to breathe before you consume it. That is open up the pack and remove the film and give it a good stir. Often ammonia compounds form in Natto if the culture remain active without the benefit of air. This ammonia smell and taste will certainly send subliminal danger signs to your brain and will likely not allow you to enjoy the Natto.

*-*-*-*-*

...and finally KK is right about stirring, though for a novice I'd advise against it. The stirring essentially wakes up the bacteria and in the aerobic conditions of the stirring will develop the colonies, which are the threads that you see form in Natto. This will only magnify the smell and taste. So for a Newbie I'd recommend just a gentle stir, only enough to gas out the ammonia, if any, and to waken up the culture.

However if you become a fan of Natto, then this is what I'd recommend:

First off keep the package of Natto out on the kitchen counter, and poke holes into the film topping the Natto, hours before you are to consume it. This will get the bacillus active again with the slight exposure to air. (You still want to keep the film as Natto cultures needs moisture to thrive...)

Then use a rough textured bowl to stir your Natto - this makes a huge difference in how fast the culture develops. Then give it a really vigorous stir until it forms a mass of strong opaque white threads. Most do not stir Natto enough to really develop it's taste. You will know this is happening as the Natto threads will get strong enough to feel - you will definitely feel a considerable resistance and a thick mass of white opaque threads.

BTW they also make special stir sticks for Natto, which looks like a small plastic paddle with bumps on it. Honestly I've found that using a rough textured bowl and a pair of chopsticks to stir up the Natto works even better.

[K K]

Well said cgfan. The elastic stickyness can be a real mess after you're done stirring, and very "fun" to clean. Yeah, better not stir too much, otherwise that foam can be a great de-appetizer just by visual and smell alone (although if you stir enough times, add wasabi and seasoning/soy sauce, you'll drown out some of the stench). Natto stir sticks? There's a stirrer for every occassion!

But I'd take it step further and ask people who want to try natto to see if they would enjoy stinky tofu at some Taiwanese Chinese restaurant. If you do, chances are you'll like natto, even though they aren't in the same vein of texture, but are soybean (by)products if you will. Though in Denver I suppose it is easier to find natto than stinky tofu unless you go to some Metropolitan city with a large Chinese population.

An interesting side fact at least based on some friends I know....they love durian to bits, but can't stand stinky tofu. For me I love stinky tofu, but I'm not sure I like durian or even durian gelato. Anyone here like both AND natto?

There are actually some Japanese and Taiwanese dried packaged crispy natto snacks (in place of say, peanuts and chips). Perhaps they went through the fryer or oven, but definitely not fugly looking by any means. During my last trip to Taipei, some of the Japanese supermarkets even carried rice crackers with natto inside them (dried crunchy).

A lot of nigiri snobs will say that enjoying natto isn't really going to earn you tons of street (or bar) cred with a sushi chef, although he'll respect your badass-ness in that regard! Definitely not an item of entry as to 94 commonly seen sushi items in that Sushi Techo book :-D.

I'd love to see natto be incorporated with some irrelevant named multi ingredient flavor clashing low cost high profit margin American inside out sushi roll....and see how customers react :-)

[EWSflash]

You'll feel SO vindicated if you go to
http://www.thesneeze.com/steve-dont-e...
You'll never again feel the need to validate natto, I kid you not.

[tatamagouche]

Oh, I first read that back in 2005—and continue to spread the word. In fact I just reread the pickled pig's feet to someone yesterday. It's truly classic. I wish he'd kept it going.

Yes, the "glistening sheen of sadness."

[bigtuna27]

Hi. Every one. Long time no see. I tried to log in so many times but I got problem message all that time.
Well I guess you don't need me anymore ha?. You guys answered each other very well.
Few pointers.
1 .If you don't like the smell of natto, there are few variety of brand has no smell or least smell. Ex;" NIOWANATTO".
2. I prefer stir up as much as possible with egg York , green onion , green sea weed and soy sauce. Don't use the sauces come with it because they have MSG and sugar in it.
3. Put whipped natto in miso soup at the last minute makes it easier to consume.
4. HIKIWARI NATTO means chopped natto. Talk to you guys soon.
BT # 499

[OCAnn]

"By the way, I'm wondering if we all regular can meat in person someday when the number of post reached 500. What do you think?"

#500! Where do we meet? Mr OCAnn loves sushi too...maybe we can get some ika natto temaki? =)

[bigtuna27]

I'm all for it. Yeah # 500. I knew you would be # 500. What do you think everyone? We have to figure out how we organize though. Let's do it
BT

[EWSflash]

Shoot, I'd go there even though I'd have to drive to California.

Bigtuna, you have the best thread here. You start a new one, I will follow you anywhere. Within reason, LOL

[bigtuna27]

Hi Everyone. Since whale is the latest topic, here is some info. I have to say first to avoid misunderstanding, I'm all for saving whales and dolphins. Japanese use whale as not only to consume but also for everything else you can imagine. Taste; Tale meat is like toro as sahimi, regular meat; more like deer but very stinky.
Fat used in stew like beef tendon. They make bacon out of whale too but very stinky.
Last time I had whale was 49 yrs ago when I was very little. Over all whale meat was cheap replacement of beef over there and has been eaten by a lot fewer people than you think. Now you know how it tastes like so you don’t have to try. Let’s keep them in the sea.

"By the way, I'm wondering if we all regular can meat in person someday when the number of post reached 500. What do you think?"

[Silverjay]

I’ve eaten whale many times in Japan. And I’ve had it in many forms- sashimi, sushi, fried whale karaage, stewed, whale bacon- which sucks- is available at any supermarket. I used to buy whale burger patties at a small market in Tokyo about 12 years ago. Most whale meat served is a lean, deep beautiful burgundy flesh with the consistency of fine beef, but without as much connective tissue. Reminds me a bit of bison. It’s usually not fishy at all. It tastes and feels like meat and many of the preparations are similar. I like whale. It’s good. But it’s not great. Tuna, beef, and “sakura” all are much tastier in my opinion. Unfortunately for the world’s whale population, it seems whale meat is back in favor in Japan. I’ve seen it increasingly more often in my travels around. It’s not priced at a premium or buried on a menu either. The argument among Japanese is that whale cuisine is an historical part of their culinary culture. Once you bring in that sort of dimension, it will be tough to pull back. Same thing is happening now with tuna.

[bigtuna27]

EU voted down the issue to control or ban the sale of Blue fin tuna. Yay!!!
Many of you here don't like big special roll right? and you think they are all American sushi. Think again. Few of them are orignated in Japanese rolls. Guess which one. Answer is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> See ya FB

[Humbucker]

Does futomaki count as a "big special roll"?

[bigtuna27]

No. It's a tipical lunch roll in Japan. FB

[OCAnn]

I must admit that I thought futomaki too.

What is FB? Football? Football = inari sushi?

Otherwise, the lunch tip makes me think of hosomaki or kappa maki....

[bigtuna27]

Hi OCAnn Your young friend may help you for the puzzle.Inari is authentic Japanese lunch sushi.

[Richard 16]

Hmmmm... I guess I just didn't think of inari as a roll.
One of the best pieces of inari I've had had small pieces of arame in it. So easy to do at home; I add a few drops of toasted sesame oil. Something else I like to do a home is sprinkle red Hawaiian sea salt and black sesame seeds on top. Very pretty. The

Question: store-bought tofu skins are so easy to use. Are there any advantages to making your own?

[bigtuna27]

You can have fun. it'll taste fresher I guess. 30 yrs ago when it's hard find Japanese item in the market, i used to make fried tofu etc at home for me to consume. FB

[K K]

BT-san, you know those Chinese supermarkets that sell Norwegian mackeral (whole) around $3 or so a pound resting on a bed of ice. Is it safe to buy one home and prep it for shimesaba? If yes, what would you recommend for amount of time to let it sit in salt rub and then marination in vinegar?

[bigtuna27]

No No No. If you can find it frozen, it's ok. You can defrost over night in frig then do what ever you like. Don't trust defrosted one. who knows how long it has been there. 3hrs for salt, 1 hr for vineger. Enjoy. FB

[TheDescendedLefticleOfAramis]

Only three "hours" in salt?
Not three "days"?

[bigtuna27]

yes 3 hrs

[K K]

OK the end of the year is approaching, so let's see if we can keep this thread going for another year!

bigtuna-san:

1) There seems to be a growing trend of sushi chefs, especially those with kaiseki training and/or backgrounds, to incorporate elements and disciplines from that style of cooking into nigiri sushi. Perhaps Masa Takayama and now Urasawa are more well known for it for some years now, (and of course Mori Sushi) but it appears it is now happening at the very least in Taipei Taiwan. I'm wondering if this is a new trend, or if there are places in Kansai region that have been doing this for even longer than Masa? Examples....adding "foam" to sashimi or nigiri, like those fancy French or fusion restaurants, or adding some exotic small wildflower that you may see as decor for kaiseki dishes, on the nigiri itself (which works well visually on top of white fish), but more importantly, making the nigiri experience as elegant as possible (earthenware, plating, kaiseki style arrangements of kobachi, small side dishes etc). Part of me thinks this is really cool, but at the same time, this also means driving the cost and prices up.

2) Another disturbing trend is many restaurants now telling customers (or when asked) that yes "95% of our fish is shipped in from Japan", as if it was the best thing ever to do. Do you think this is the next new wave of making money to the unsuspecting consumer, and also a similar attitude to that thread you already read "are you sushi and omakase fans being scammed"?

3) What are your favorite local/regional/US seafood to use in your restaurant? That is, other than Pacific NW mirugai, Santa Barbara or California or Pacific NW or Boston uni?

4) At the counter, the most common place for the chef to put down nigiri is on a geta, or one of those flatter lacquered small trays. I've seen really clean counters where the chefs put the nigiri and ginger and wasabi directly on them (very very rare), some do it on earthenware, and there are very few that still place them on a leaf. Please tell us more about the history and significance of using the leaf. I've seen leaf on geta, and leaf directly on counter. What kind of leaf is commonly used?

[bigtuna27]

.Hi. KK. Long time no here. I've been busy and every time I tried to check Error message came up. Anyway you always have good and hard questions. I like the challenge though.
1) I think it because of few reasons. a) Chef's age getting younger and they like to try different approach b). Customer's knowledge about food is getting better because of Food channel etc there for their interest getting deeper. c) It's always a trend to think if price is higher, it must be better. So. If you have money, enjoy it. If not just envy ha ha
2) It just so many fish from Japan is available now and very expensive. For example. Spanish mackerel; Local-not available any more. Wild from Japan costs 2.5 times more than farmed one from Japan. If you are paying $7 for farmed one wild one will cost you at least $ 14[still good deal] it is easier to make more sales when you sell expensive but good one for sushi bar, if they can get good amount of customers. For customer, it will give you more chance to get ripped off. I don't like it I like honest approach. Good stuff but reasonable pricing. I use live halibut from Korea, red snapper from Japan. Blue fin tuna/Toro is always available and so on. But my restaurant's name is not Mori or Urasawa. If you want to eat those especially good fish, you have to know what you are eating first I guess.
3) Farmed Kona kampuchi [season is over but reasonably priced fish], Opakapaka from Hawaii, Hokki from east, Aoyagi from east, farmed oysters. Sometimes local baby blue fin.
4) Putting any thing directly on the counter is very old fashion way. And it's not safe health wise. HD doesn't like it at all. The leafs we use are bamboo leaf or Ti leaf. Ti leaf is larger and has been a replacement for bamboo leaf for a long time until it was imported frozen from Japan. Bamboo leaf is well known in Japan as self sanitizing leaf. We use it for wrapping for food etc. bamboo itself is used for dishes too.
By the way, I'm wondering if we all regular can meat in person someday when the number of post reached 500. What do you think?

[OCAnn]

#474. Sounds good to me! =)

[Notorious P.I.G.]

I noticed something interesting the other day at a Sushi Bar I frequent and while I have my own ideas as to why they incorporate this practice I would love to hear your opinion bigtuna27.

I noticed that right before they serve the sushi they drizzle water on top of it. I haven't been to any other Sushi Bar anywhere that does this North America or Japan so I'm just wondering what the purpose is?

[bigtuna27]

I don't have a slitest idea. Ask them. I want to know.

[steinpilz]

Hi bigtuna,
I've got a question that I don't think anyone has asked. How would you prepare baby octopus?

I bought some of these (previously frozen) and simmered them in a soy/mirin/sugar mix. Pretty good but I might try broiling them next time -- great snacks to have with beer after coming home from work however.

I prepared them by cutting off the eye section and removing the "stuff" in the heads, but I wonder if this is really necessary? I've seen on the web that people leave them whole, am I missing some good flavour?

What is your favorite way to prepare baby octopus?

Thanks very much for this great educational thread!

[bigtuna27]

Try deep frying them after you marinade them with flour or some kind of starch. Making it spicy is even better.

[steinpilz]

Sounds great, would you leave them whole or clean out the heads? Thanks again.

[bigtuna27]

If you don't clean,all you have to do is spit the unatable part out when you eat. by the way it's not the head. It's the body. Just so you know. Enjoy. BT

[K K]

7 years ago one of my favorite places once offered the octopus head cut (cooked, no eyes of course) for nigiri. It was superb...totally different texture than the tentacles. Since then he has not offered it again.

[bigtuna27]

Hi. KK Recently my cusotmer told me uni from San Diego is the best uni. It was more than few people so I asked around. It turned out to be MARUKA brand and is big. I use MATSUSHITA brand and is small in size. In Japan, small ones are considered better kind. Becaouse it tender, sweeter and smooth on your tang. MARUKA brand is sweet but big and has little texture when you put it in mouth. I guess it's an American thing that big is better. What do you think?

[Notorious P.I.G.]

I think you're right. Uni from San Diego does not compare to Ezo Bafun Uni or Kita Murasaki Uni from say Hokkaido in taste or texture. I think your customers are misinformed.

[K K]

Well I don't know what Maruka brand uni is, so I looked it up.

The closest search result is the mail order uni that every gourmet knows about, Catalina Offshore Products

http://www.catalinaop.com/Roe_Eggs_s/...

Apparently they offer Maruka.

I am not familiar with the various variants of uni across California, I'm sure they vary just so slightly due to the water climate and the kind of kelp available to munch on.

But everyone keeps saying Santa Barbara uni is the best (even most sushi chefs), and that the absolute best of the best A+++ go to Japan for export. This is in California of course. Which also makes economic sense because why pay $$$$ for harvested or early harvested and trayed Hokkaido uni and have to charge a markup to your customers when you can get local or American uni.

I was not aware there are uni specimens off the coast of San Diego. In San Francisco city, there are chefs who get uni from Mendocino County (mostly known for wine and grapes) which does taste pretty good in a different way.

In my life I've had:

Mendocino uni (once or twice
)Boston uni - tastes somewhat close to Hokkaido uni, same with look and feel, but less sweet (then again it was shipped, and not fresh off the ocean)
Santa Barbara uni (I think that's where 95% of Northern California sushi bars carry)
Hokkaido uni (whatever the distributors carry and make available when SB uni is not in season)
Canadian uni (frozen) big untextured clumps...not very good.
Alaskan uni (brown, a little bitter but with a sweet aftertaste, during the summer, goes good with decent seaweed, sumeshi, and a little hon wasabi)
uni in Taiwan (I had it at a decent Japanese restaurant the ex-president used to go to, plus at an izakaya run by a husband and wife from Japan) it's similar to off season Santa Barbara uni, a little bit strong, very mild and briefly sweet aftertaste)

I like both Santa Barbara uni (or whatever they're called these days) and Hokkaido. They are good in their own way. But yes, bigger lobes not necessarily better, it depends on the species I suppose and what your baseline comparison is. I had Hokkaido uni off the shell one time, and it was super mushy to the point that I preferred it off the tray!

[bigtuna27]

Thank you guys. you guys made me feel secure. I was right again. But so you know the food critic from LA times preffer that big one too. I guess people go to famous expensive place and believe what ever kind they serve is the best even pro critics. FYI. Maruka is cheaper than Matsushita brand. May be that the reason those place use them ha ha. BT

[penthouse pup]

Uni from Maine is found in NYC markets.

[cgfan]

My vote goes to the Matsushita Uni as well. Unfortunately almost all of their distribution stays in Los Angeles, usually leaving none for San Diego. I almost never see it here, but this year I've had it on almost every visit to Kaito Sushi. Prior to this year I've had it only on two other occasions that I know of, both times also at Kaito.

I just had some there two nights ago and I'd have to say that it was the best Uni I've ever had, even amongst the other Matsushita ones that I've had there previously. In any case what I find sets all of the Matsushita product apart is that it has very little moisture in it, which concentrates the flavor and makes it extremely creamy (in a thick way, very much like the cream that separates to the top of non-homogenized whole milk.).

I suspect that most Sushi diners in San Diego have never had the experience of trying Matsushita Uni. Since I have I see it as a special treat, and I look forward to it each and every time I see it sitting in Kaito's case.

One thing to keep in mind, though, is that the Uni will only be as good as the conditions of the kelp beds they feed on. Last season was a very bad year for Uni here in California, due to the damage caused to the kelp beds by the storms. However this year things look very good. Yes, San Diego Uni is very good, and so is Santa Barbara's Uni. However more so than the waters they come from I find that the best predictor is the processor it comes from, of which I find the Matsushita product the best that I've been able to get here in So. Cal.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/akatayam...

[bigtuna27]

Since I started this Uni talk. I owe you guys little inside info about uni. About Matsushita [I met him in person so many times]. They are so busy and there are not enough uni to support their biz. They buy uni from unknown supplier owned by Korean guy to cover shortage. I used to buy uni directly from them. This one has same taste as matsushita just in different brand. Next time I visit San Diego, I’ll try to stop by at Kaito. BT

[omniedo]

Hi bigtuna27, I just read through your whole thread because as soon as I

started I began to wonder about all the unsold fish, and wanted to see what you

were all saying before asking more, for which I became a new chow member, thank

you! I was This is the best sushi forum I've ever seen, especially as I'm

another English speaker and can't read Japanese though I can say sumimasen. so

glad to see you and so many good regular visitors here start to discuss it,

with so much interest.

Here's what I particularly got from it, then questions to ask you all to tie it

together, please:

bigtuna 27 said:

"Ok. I have to tell you industry seacret. When you ask Omakase, it's not always

best thing chef reccomend. Remember it's a bisiness. . . Shirom is kind a hard

to sell item. So it's good excuse to get lid of them. . . My place is not a

high end place. Just little better than avarage.

Uni: Shell type will last 2~3 days in the frige and boxed one is longer like

5~7 days

Most of the sushi bar get them delivered."

JBC said:

"What happens to the leftover fish when the sushi bar closes at night?"

cg fan said:

"... Sushi Tane gradually improves with age then precipitously drops in

quality. In this sense it's like a game of dare. . . does the shop have enough

customers to be able to consume it in its last day of service?

Maguro is a slow ager, as are other items such as Kohada. . . I find that truly

"fresh-killed" Tane has less taste than its more aged counterparts.

Some ingredients are particularly tricky such as fresh Katsuo (which by no

means is a small fish nor inexpensive) which can only be purchased whole but is

a fast oxidizer. As such the whole fish must be consumed within 2 days of

service or into the dumpster it goes. And depending on how much was put into

service it may have been at a loss. Not all Sushi bars will have the clientelle

to ensure that all four loins of the Katsuo will be consumed so fast.

Note that for many items there are traditional means of preservation, so for

instance various clams can be marinated in a way that allows them to keep long

past what would be viable if kept in its "fresh" state."

K K said:

"Short answer: Mix with mayo, chili oil or srriracha (rooster sauce) to make

the spicy fish for funny name rolls or handrolls."

bigtuna 27 said:

"I'll disappoint all of you with inside scoop. Don't get mad at me because I

may spoil your experience. What happens to the left over? Unless leftovers are

small chunks, no matter how good or famous that sushi bar is, they'll use them

next day. They are not going to tell you even if you are the best customer of

them. It's a business not gourmet game. Sorry BT"

OCAnn said:

"Use them next day...as in the spicy tuna roll? How are they used?"

K K said:

"For real high end expensive fish, you bet that even if there are small chunks

remaining, the sushi chef at the high end sushi bar will use it up to reduce

costs...."

bigtuna27 said:

"Hi KK . You are mostly correct. For the high end sushi bar, chefs eat those

scraps as their late night snack after work along with couple beer or sake.

That how I used to get lid of my scraps. Believe me my employees loved me for

that. There are few ways to save the fish. But good chef knows how much to

bring out for the day by intuition. If not they will be mixed with mayo for the

roll next day I guess. BT"

K K said:

"Believe me I've seen some chefs take the fugliest looking uneven small chunks

of fish, and after multiple slices, extend it long enough to mold it as one or

two pieces of nigiri... Or they can do it tattaki and gunkan style.

BT-san what do you do with leftover high end cost product (e.g. chutoro and

otoro) that is not so good to serve as nigiri or sashimi?"

bigtuna27 said:

"Tekka maki may be but I don't extend the pieces. I don't serve no good part

even if it's high cost stuff. Cook them and give away to customer as a treat.

It's still fresh enough to cook you know."

* * *

BigTuna, Your last reminder that seafood past sushi/sashimi quality is "still

fresh enough to cook you know" was great, and a costless business generosity. I

come from a family which has occasionally been in the restaurant business,

though no one these days, and I'm probably the only really adventurous fan of

raw seafood. So I'm trying to get a picture as I listen to what you're all

saying.

JBC says different fish can stick around for different times, and even taste

better with different aging; you say, BT, most fish around here comes from

distributor delivery straight to the kitchen, so no wonder your "intuition" and

regular inspection is important for deciding what to offer again the next day,

since the details of how old a piece is when it arrives, and how it's been

treated every moment probably isn't part of the packing list you normally get,

you just deal with it as you see it, and try to ask questions of your supplier

when you have any, but they may not know much or any history before they had

the item, is that right?

So to put all the pieces of this conversation topic together, I wondered if you

could tell us, especially from the point of view of your experience in a better

than average sushiya which most people would visit or can afford, how the food

waste works overall. Enjoy your straight forward honesty in your thread.

Perhaps the few key points we might all like to know are something like this?:

1) Is there special tracking or reporting that comes with "sushi quality" fish

from wholesalers, like time it was caught, how long before frozen, how long it

stayed that way, or you mainly just trust your supplier and your own senses?

2) Do suppliers deliver an order every day to most restaurants around here, or

how often?

3) You've told us, how long to keep uni. I've kept fish eggs in my fridge at

home for weeks if already prepared with salt etc. And I'm sure a lot that's put

on display is used the same day, maybe most maguro. But what I naturally notice

is how full these displays stay all through the day and night up to the end,

and it doesn't seem too often that an item runs out. I never watched

intentionally before, but I don't remember noticing itamaes going into the back

kitchen for more fish very much.

If we don't worry for the moment about fish eggs and unusual stuff, then

overall, putting together all the details of JBC's different fish, how long do

you think most sushi restaurants near LA keep most fleshy seafood under the

glass counter?

4) Does it stay under the counter overnight? Lower temperature, or in a

separate, colder fridge? Or do sushiyas keep lots of seafood in big, cold

fridges and just bring part out to show in the glass counter so fish in the

counter really changes more than once a day?

5) Overall, how much simply doesn't get sold in a typical good restaurant?

Since you mention it's a business, I guess different kinds of restaurants shoot

for different food costs, say as a percent of their prices, and part of that is

food waste, but since sushi is all about raw quality and almost not at all

about throwing out peels and bones, personally I'd guess your issue has got to

be about deciding and trying to managed how much to allow for throwing away

vs. offering more selection that's not popular enough on a regular basis so the

throw away varies a lot or you just have to throw some out to make a minimum

purchase?

After K K's using up old fish as much as possible in (good tasting) forms that

aren't as sensitive as nigiri and sashimi, what percent would you say even a

pretty good-average sushiya has to throw out of its seafood?

6) What percentage do you think a "high end" sushi-ya writes off, including

daily left-overs you say the staff eats, which is pure expense just like any

physical throw away?

Is it much higher since part of their charging a lot more is because they offer

more selection that's less popular, or do you think customers at those places

order omakase so much more that all that gets used up, and "high end" throw-

away ends up the same as a good average place?

Would love to hear what you and these wonderfully insightful, experienced

visitors you've gathered have to say! I'm sure I'll appreciate my sushi (and

its price) more, however you tell us it's done, both what saves us all cost in

rough times, and what's necessary to put delicious quality on our tongues.

[K K]

While I don't have the inside scoop of restaurants like others do...but with regards to
question 4, I've seen one legitimate sushi restaurant clear out their counter, and saran wrap their fish blocks on plates, then move them to the refrigerator, and this is during end of business lunch (around the 2 pm mark). They then take them out to fill up the counter as dinner hours approach, then repeated when the restaurant closes for the day. In between removal of fish from the counter (which is actually a Hoshizaki or equivalent refrigeration unit) they (hopefully) do some cleaning and where needed, maintenance. After all, it is not a really good sight to see if the refrigeration tubes inside are lined up with frost (which means either the temperature calibration is wacked, or the chef doesn't close the door to the counter much, letting hot air go in etc).

Restaurants also vary when and how frequent they get shipments or deliveries of new stock, that's entirely up to the owner/management (and also a result of what kind of turnover the place gets with inventory).

Finally, there are also many restaurants who really don't make any money on nigiri, let alone break even. BT-san knows this, as the real money is in the tip$ and especially alcohol and beverages. There are restaurants that charge $6 to $8 for two pieces of uni sushi, and if it is pretty high grade, some might argue that even at $8, it is a loss. Imagine if Santa Barbara uni is out of season, and just to have a species of uni in stock for the restaurant, they choose to import the insanely expensive Hokkaido uni, maybe offer it at $10 to $12 a pop....will someone bite? Dunno. Will it be good? Well hit and miss sometimes from the tray. It is a tough business, unless you have lines out the door everyday.

Of course the big name funny inside out Americanized rolls are huge money makers, because the bulk of the ingredients are seaweed, rice, maybe avocado or a tempura shrimp. $10 to $16 for a dragon roll? That profit margin is much much much larger than a pair of premium bluefin toro. (Don't hate, this is actually mentioned in Trevor Corson's Zen of Fish book).

[penthouse pup]

I agree with KK on question 4, having seen this in good NYC restaurants. Also agree with Omneido that BT 27 is truly a sensei.

[bigtuna27]

Hi. Thank you for reading all the threads. It must take whole afternoon.
1 There are no special tracking or report except few. Yes on fresh shell fish and frozen items. Other fresh fish items have to rely on your knowledge.
2.Everyday or few days a week but not every kind every time.
3.Those showcases are for display only. They take it down at the end of the day. Fishes last 2~3 days if not used.
4.They take out enough items to get by. They have to keep rest of the fish in better fridge.
5.Honestly I don’t know. It depends on the restaurant. My case I rarely waste fish. I don’t throw away. You have to know what you doing. [ I’m good !!! ha ha]
6.Higher end sushi bar probably throw away more than regular places. And your guess is right.

[K K]

One local restaurant in my area always gets Copper River Salmon from Pacific NW/Alaska (whatever the source is) for sashimi and sushi around the June/July timeframe. The season is always short (~2 weeks or so) but there was one time he had it into late August, and it tasted let's just say not very sexy as before.

Which leads me to conclude that there are certain fishies that stay flash frozen until needed (then defrosted over a let's say 24 hour period or more). Likely an edge case, but who knows.

I also saw a food show/documentary once in Taiwan, where a supplier caught a ton of bluefin (not sure from where, likely near Taiwan) and kept the whole fish in deep freeze (and unthawed when needed). Apparently they can stay in deep freeze for some time (so what is the correct answer, how long can they REALLY stay in deep freeze before it is not so good after unthawing?)

[Humbucker]

Bigtuna-san, I purchased some tuna labeled "nakaochi" from my local Japanese grocery store (only $1.99/lb.!). This is presumably the leftover ugly parts from the big maguro sashimi sale they're having for Labor Day. How should I go about preparing this? Tataki? Negitoro style? Do you know of any interesting dishes I can use it in?

The nakaochi (they're solid blocks, not scraps or scrapings) look like the sashimi-grade fillets but the meat is much darker, almost black-ish, and some of the fillets have some sinew. I tried a couple slices raw and it's pretty good, with a stronger fish-taste than the usual akami.

[bigtuna27]

Hi. It's probably tail meat which is little stringy because of grains. And may be little old. You can scrape and make spicy tuna. If you don't mind cooking, slice it for steak and sauté with butter. Finish with teriyaki sauce. If you don't like teriyaki, salt and pepper then sauté with garlic and soy sauce. Enjoy. BT

[JBC]

I've been eating sushi in L.A. for 30+ years.

What happens to the leftover fish when the sushi bar closes at night ?

I've always guessed that it's what they serve the next day for the usual lunch special where you get 6 or 8 pieces of sushi with the type of fish is always, or usually, chef's choice.

[cgfan]

With apologies in advance for this not being a direct answer to your question, but wanted to throw in my 2 cents worth on the subject...

A common misconception is that Sushi Tane is best when "fresh" or as soon as possible and is not viable beyond the first day. It all depends on the particular Tane and in part if the Sushi bar has the right kind of clientelle to ensure that a particular Tane can be consumed before it goes bad.

In general Sushi Tane gradually improves with age then precipitously drops in quality. In this sense it's like a game of dare. How long should one, say, keep a good piece of Maguro to improve its taste, and when it's at its peak does the shop have enough customers to be able to consume it in its last day of service?

The aforementioned Maguro is a slow ager, as are other items such as Kohada. Fortunately at my favorite Sushi bar I've been able to go on consecutive days and sample particular ingredients as they age. I've done this a number of times, and in particular with Maguro or Kohada. It truly is an eye-opening experience being able to track a Tane's development from day to day!

It's also a very interesting exercise to sample some ingredients both when freshly killed, then later as it ages. Generally speaking, though of course there are the inevitable exceptions, I find that truly "fresh-killed" Tane has less taste than its more aged counterparts.

Some ingredients are particularly tricky such as fresh Katsuo (which by no means is a small fish nor inexpensive) which can only be purchased whole but is a fast oxidizer. As such the whole fish must be consumed within 2 days of service or into the dumpster it goes. And depending on how much was put into service it may have been at a loss. Not all Sushi bars will have the clientelle to ensure that all four loins of the Katsuo will be consumed so fast.

Note that for many items there are traditional means of preservation, so for instance various clams can be marinated in a way that allows them to keep long past what would be viable if kept in its "fresh" state.

Also I'm not sure if most are aware that Ikura is available fresh only during a very limited time of year. (At my favorite Sushi bar Ikura is only offered during the 1 week or so that it's available fresh. At all other times of the year it's only used as a tiny "accent" garnish.) What most are eating as Ikura is not "fresh" but rather kept in a preserved state and frozen.

Just my 2 cents worth...

[TheDescendedLefticleOfAramis]

With fall upon us, I'm hoping to score some "fresh" saba ...not unlike "nama" ikura, this calls for good timing and luck in my province.

As a somewhat oblique aside, the Aug. edition of La Cucina Italiana profiled Bartolotta in Vegas ... you might appreciate his "approach" if you haven't caught this ... the article is titled "neptune's catch" ... think "canocchie"/"shako".

[K K]

"What happens to the leftover fish when the sushi bar closes at night ?"

Assuming this is leftover uncut/unused blocks of fish... and depending on how many days have passed since the fish block was delivered...

Short answer: Mix with mayo, chili oil or srriracha (rooster sauce) to make the spicy fish for funny name rolls or handrolls.

[bigtuna27]

I'll disappoint all of you with inside scoop. Don't get mad at me because I may spoil your experience. What happens to the left over? Unless leftovers are small chunks, no matter how good or famous that sushi bar is, they'll use them next day. They are not going to tell you even if you are the best customer of them. It's a business not gourmet game. Sorry BT

[OCAnn]

Use them next day...as in the spicy tuna roll? How are they used?

[K K]

I think what BigTuna-san is saying is that if the fish is still viable for use the next day or even a few days after, at least in appearance and texture, they will be served to customers in any manner. Using leftover "scraps" or "pieces" for spicy creations or tartare type fusion dishes, or even tuna poke, is one method. Hey Porthos, maybe next time you can ask Mori-san what quality of age of tuna cuts he uses for his spicy tuna tacos :-D

The other is drowning the fish with assorted sauces like ponzu and condiments (fusion nigiri), to the point you can't entirely taste the fish or the vinegared sushi rice.

The caveat is that there are fish, just like cgfan said, that are extremely perishable and need to be consumed right away upon dethawing and prepping, otherwise you will taste the difference (like bonito/katsuo). Then on the extreme, I've heard stories of someone eating 7 day old marinated saba and it still tasted good to them (and remained moist, just right oily etc).

For real high end expensive fish, you bet that even if there are small chunks remaining, the sushi chef at the high end sushi bar will use it up to reduce costs, as long as the portion and size can be used (e.g. take a thick short slice, cut it in a way that it unfolds itself, and voila, long enough to make nigiri....simlar to how they "butterfly" a scallop to mold into nigiri).

[bigtuna27]

Hi KK . You are mostly correct. For the high end sushi bar, chefs eat those scraps as their late night snack after work along with couple beer or sake. That how I used to get lid of my scraps. Believe me my employees loved me for that. There are few ways to save the fish. But good chef knows how much to bring out for the day by intuition. If not they will be mixed with mayo for the roll next day I guess. BT

[K K]

Believe me I've seen some chefs take the fugliest looking uneven small chunks of fish, and after multiple slices, extend it long enough to mold it as one or two pieces of nigiri... Or they can do it tattaki and gunkan style.

BT-san what do you do with leftover high end cost product (e.g. chutoro and otoro) that is not so good to serve as nigiri or sashimi?

Do you

- aburi (sear) then add momiji oroshi + ponzu (or yuzugosho)

or

-marinate in soy sauce and mirin (zuke)

or

marinate/grilled it and eat it yourself like a cat?

[bigtuna27]

Tekka maki may be but I don't extend the pieces. I don't serve no good part even if it's high cost stuff. Cook them and give away to customer as a treat. It's still fresh enough to cook you know.

[peppermonkey]

hey BT! Great post. I had a simple question about fresh grated wasabi. I noticed at a few places like nozawa,sasabune,zo the wasabi is somewhat creamy texture and pretty strong, but at urasawa, the was texture was more like rooty and they were in flakes, also it was not as spicy. Why were they so different?

[bigtuna27]

Hi. It is up to the chefs but there are 2 ways to grate. If you want strong one you have to peel the skin and grate w/ fine grater. If you want flavorful one, you leave the skin on and grate w/ coarse grater. I personally like coarse one. Because strong one can be found in wasabi powder version. Why make it so different? Hotness comes from oxidization of the wasabi particles. Finer the wasabi is stronger the taste because more surface of particles get oxidized. You can find this difference in wasabi powder too. Good question!!!

[peppermonkey]

thanks! I prefer the coarse one but no where else I've been does this?

[K K]

Well there's also the sushi chef's choice of grater, a shark skin (old school way) or using one made of metal.

Of course where the wasabi is sourced from makes a difference. I've had wasabi that after freshly grinding, looks more like a kid's toothpaste...bright green. Probably American grown wasabi from Oregon/Pacific NW.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasabi is also a good read. Didn't know Alishan in Taiwan also grew wasabi, I bet it tastes pretty good since they are also known for high quality tea.

[Porthos]

PM, both Mori and Yasuda grate with sharkskin. I think you've been to both if I'm not mistaken.

The difference you're noticing is fresh vs paste/powder wasabi. Nozawa and Sasabune use paste/powder. Urasawa, Mori, Yasuda use freshly grated root. Zo was freshly grated when I went 2 years ago, not sure if it's changed. The paste and powder stuff being too strong for my tastes as covers up the flavor of the fish. Which goes back to why I find those places to be inferior establishments and can't believe how much people in LA love them.

[peppermonkey]

well the stuff at yasuda and mori was still very different from the stuff at urasawa. At urasawa it was more like flakes and the taste was not as spicy compared to the two above, which makes sense from BT's explanation. To me, the versions at mori and yasuda seem very close to sasabune and nozawa, though i normally don't use much extra wasabi. And all of them are very different from the paste you get at the lower end places.

[Porthos]

Go again. You are mistaken. The wasabi at Mori and Yasuda is totally different from the stuff at Sasabune. You can see them hand grate it on the sharkskin board at the first two.

[peppermonkey]

i don't know about you but this looks and tastes like fresh grated wasabi to me
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z1...

[cgfan]

That looks too watery to be fresh grated, but more like some kind of preparation. Here are some pictures of what it looks whole and fresh-grated:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/akatayama/2577603886/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/akatayama/2576767485/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/akatayama/2576786101/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/akatayama/2577648526/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/akatayam...

[K K]

cgfan is right.

Peppermonkey's picture to me looks like the "hon wasabi" paste or squeeze tube mix that some restaurants reserve for sashimi use to make the experience a bit more enjoyable (while using powdered paste artifiically colored and flavored wasabi for other apps). This is the kind that is a pre-made mix that contains some real wasabi (powder/dried) but is not entirely 100% fresh wasabi, and encased in a squeeze tube (and must be refrigerated), and these types can be a bit watery depending on the vendor.

Bottom line, the restaurant can buy wasabi of any form or type from wholesalers like IMP, True World, or private source. Pretty sure at least Urasawa, won't use the $5 wasabi whole root (even tho it says from Japan) available at Nijiya supermarket, for his restaurant.

[bigtuna27]

BT here. There is another possibility. To me it looks like the chef mixed either grated wasabi or powder wasabi with grated daikon radish. I used to do that long time ago when fresh wasabi wasn't available often enough. It tastes better than powder wasabi and some how closer to real one at least the texture

[OCAnn]

regarding your pics (nice!), how WAS the ice cream w/wasabi? And which 3 sushi-yas did you go to and which were your favourites and why?

[peppermonkey]

i stand corrected

[K K]

OK I'm looking at a translated version of "Best Selection of Tsukiji Market in Tokyo" by Atsushi Koseki, and there is a vendor/shop that specializes in selling wasabi root.

There are different grades (and thus prices) and the average person probably couldn't tell a cheap one from an expensive one, but just to give you an idea...

Prices range from 500 yen to 2000 yen per 100 grams (2007 prices).

BT-san, is the fresh wasabi root sold via wholesaler like IMP priced a lot higher or somewhat similar along those lines, and are there various grades to choose from (and if so how many).

[K K]

OK here are some more tough ones for you.

Perhaps more important than aesthetic arrangement of sushi on a giant lacquered or earthenware plate, is the skills of selecting raw materials aka fish/sakana.

1) BT-san without giving out too many secrets (unless you don't mind sharing), other than the obvious like "make sure the fish that is on ice does not have cloudy eyes" or "make sure the fish does not smell bad", what are some good to know things and must-know things for sushi chefs selecting fish at the market?

Or any random tips you can share, like how to tell the difference between farmed sea bream vs wild sea bream, a male from a female?

2) Also, with the majority of sushi restaurants in the USA (especially the landlocked ones that have no immediate access to a fish market) go through distributor or wholesaler to get their supplies, sometimes not being able to see the product until it is delivered. Some might just drive over to the warehouse to personally select, but again it seems to be at the mercy. What is the ordering process like at one of these wholesalers (e.g. IMP?) Also do you get better access to quality fish if you are a loyal/frequent customer (even if it is not necessarily high end fish), or does it just come down to money and what you are willing to pay that is available and figure out how to make a profit on top of that?

3) It is pretty clear that the price of fish for sushi at the wholesale level has gone up for many reasons (especially those high end white board special Japanese fish)....in the last 3 to 4 years, how much percent wise would you say it has increased per year? Curious where this will eventually lead.

4) Based on your 30 years of LA sushi experience, how many places use their own private buyers to source fish? Obviously places like Masa in NY or Urasawa do and have $ to do so for some things they need. But do smaller name sushi restaurants do this too to some extent, or rely mostly on wholesaler/local or regional fish marketsr? How much $ can these private buyers make?

[bigtuna27]

1) Besides the technique you mention there are few. Touch it. You feel something slippery like fish body was coated by some kind of liquid. The fish is fresh. Naturally fish was coated by their own juice in order to move around smoothly in the water. You feel farm. Fish is fresh. Not only fish but all the animals’ body gets hardened after 12hrs to 24 hrs. No fish arrive with in the 12 hours after they were caught. So this means good. Check the gills. Here you have to see the color of the gill which is the color of the brad. Color of the brad turns dark or brawn if it's old. Bright red is preferred. Sea bream: Male is larger and more colorful than female. Wild or farmed is very hard to detect but you can look for scars or damage on the skin to see if it's wild. Taste wise farmed one is fattier than wild.
2) Some old fashioned chef still goes there to pick up their fish. Everything you guessed exists. It’s depending on the circumstances.
3) I don't know exactly. Some went up because of luck of supply. Some did because of fuel price went up [like the one shipped from Japan]. Recently Expensive item like blue fin tuna prices came down because of the less demand in Japan.
4) I have no idea. Since I never wanted to be that much stuck up chef nor serve sushi in ridiculously high price, I've never come across the situation to know. To serve very rare item is extreme gourmet. I just want to serve good sushi so that most of the people can enjoy. Sorry I don’t know. Most of the sushi bar relies on the availability of local supplier. To get good fish out of their selection is up to the chef's knowledge or power over fish market. For my case. I'm well known as AH when it comes to the quality of the fish I get in major fish supplier. Ha ha

[Dio Seijuro]

What a wonderfully informative thread I just spent an entire afternoon reading and I've found several posters who know so much about Japanese food and sushi in general now I know who to ask for advices when I go to California and Japan! Oh and Taiwan, KK.

Now TunaSan I have some basic questions concerning etiquette:

1) I see you guys use "itamae" a lot. So if I go to a new place and want to get attention of the sushi man and introduce myself or ask question, is it okay to say "Excuse me itamae san..." ?

2) Sometimes at even places I go to kind of regularly, I notice the assistant and not the head chef makes my sushi and I can tell difference. Is there a rule generally who gets their sushi made by the best sushi man, like only regulars or big orders? Maybe I still need to be friendlier or tip more? Is it rude to ask specifically can I have xxx san make the sushi please"? For reference my sushi orders are usually nigiri 4~6 pieces of different kinds at a time, as I've found ordering omakase around here I get generic stuff (you guys have kind of explained the reason).

[K K]

Some interesting questions you have there. I'm sure BT-san has his own answers

1) Depends if the sushi chef there speaks and/or is Japanese. If the chef has a nametag that says Jimi, then I suppose you can say Jimi-san (and Jimi might be Korean or Chinese or of other ethnic background).

I've seen older Japanese speaking customers get the attention of the sushi-chef by referring to them as younger (in the term), like Taka-chan but it is also because they probably already have a close customer/chef relationship and the customer is obviously older than the chef.

Some books say in the old days the sushi chef (in Japan) was also referred to as Taisho (as in "general"). Apparently there are some taboos to call a Japanese sushi chef that these days, or it has to be under certain circumstances (and if so can someone explain that).

And there are some who call the master sushi chef Sensei (as in "teacher" as you would the 7th+++ degree black belt karate teacher/tutor at your karate class), and I've heard Ohyakata (usually referring to a very senior member, perhaps the owner of the sushi restaurant who is in a position to take apprentices).

But here in the US, unless you are dining at those sushi nazi places where you aren't treated like a king, you are the paying customer or higher in the ranking (so to speak) and the chef should at a minimum work for you and serve you (provided that there's mutual respect).

2) Well from the business side, the assistant chef needs practice, and/or the head chef needs a break, and that is inevitable at most non fancy high end places. The inexperienced always needs to learn and they can only do that by practice in front of a live audience.

However, I do think the tricks are to time your visit right so that you get more face time with your favorite main chef at the sushi bar (and use that time wisely to get to know him and him to know you), sit in front of him, even if it means going right when doors open, or you have a reservation specifically in front of the head chef, or wait until after busy hours when he has more time, and/or ask the waitstaff ahead of time to arrange that with the chef for you.

[bigtuna27]

Hi. I think KK explained well. 2) In case you got seated infront of Head chef by what ever the reason. Be prepared to act like the best customer since you'll be served by the best in the house. That means pay respect and enjoy what ever was served and thank him. Big tip works well but big respect works even more (Specialy my case). Enjoy BT

[Silverjay]

Japanese is a context-oriented language/ culture and it's usually not even necessary to speak the subject nor directly address someone by name or title. Best way to get someone's attention is to politely call out "Sumimasen"....But anyway, I'm partial to Taisho (not just at sushi places) with the main guy- 'specially after a couple of glasses of shochu...

[K K]

Perhaps it is those wacky fun to watch exaggerated youtube videos like this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b75cl...

that also mention the suggestion of calling the chef "taisho", that makes one wonder if it is still appropriate.

The process of buying the sushi chef or master a beer, pour him some sake or soju, or share with him a glass of wine or champagne or whatever high end alkie drink these days at the sushi bar (elevated too often these days by "gourmet bloggers"....... ) as "part of the experience"....is it an American thing? When did it start?

To my knowledge I've never seen or heard this done in Taiwan at Japanese restaurants. Do people do this in Japan?

[bigtuna27]

.It is most likely American thing. In Japan it does happen as a token of appreciation or friend ship some time but not as often as it happens here. BT

[Silverjay]

When I've seen it, it was only at closing time when the service is over and as BT said, it was a token gesture from a long-time customer or friend. People in Japan don't just show up and start buying the chef drinks like you read in some accounts here from U.S. experiences. You don't even tip in restaurants in Japan.

[K K]

OK since this thread got bumped up again....

There is a very specific and traditional Japanese way with regards to how nigiri and hosomaki sushi are presented on a plate. I'm sure this is an entire topic in itself. Let's say the sushi chef gets a big order for a table (or a banquet for to go in Japan). Plating and arrangement are equally important as part of presentation, as well as the type of surface the sushi will rest on. In as much detail as you can explain BigTuna-san, are there rules in which how you (for example) would arrange the sushi on a plate, be it a laquer round container, or an earthenware ceramic plate? Would you for example, place any hosomaki at the back, and anago in the front (and if so why is that) and what would be the meaning of the way fish is positioned on the plate etc.

[bigtuna27]

KK. You bring up tuff question each time. I wonder how you do it. Let me say first. I've been here for over 30 yrs and I wasn't trained to do MORIKOMI [arranged plate].So I have to say I'm not the expert to answer your question. I just tell you what I know. The rules you are talking is up to the occasion and purpose. Basic rule is not to interfere the purpose but to help in a way. Using lacquer container [sushi oke] or ceramic plate is up to the chef. Hosomaki at the back means that side goes far side of the person. It's just the marking idea sushi way. There are several styles how to place sushi. They used to build it up on the top of each other to show volume long time ago. Now a day it is popular to do flat with placing sushi slanted in few lines. Any item uses sauce should be in front because you put sauce at the last moment. It is convenient and be able to avoid dropping the sauce on other sushi. It is better to place main item like tuna, shrimp or any bright colored item in the center to make it eye catching. Does this answer your question? If not Silver Jay may be able to help you. Ha ha

[K K]

O-Maguro San,

This time I have a question about tekka and negi-toro maki.

Very very very few places use small long rectangular blocks of akami (red tuna) for making tekka maki, virtually many other places just scrap the meat off the bones with a spoon (nakaochi) and use that as filling for the tekka maki. How was this done historically? The story is that "tekka maki" was gambler's finger food or something like that (iron fire). Am I being shortchanged by getting nakaochi or spoon scraps instead of solid akami blocks? And how does one order tekka maki with solid akami blocks inside in Japanese? How about tekka maki with no rice inside, how would you order that (a chef made it for me years and years ago).

Sometimes the scrap tuna / nakaochi / scrappings from a spoon are a tad bit sinewy, and if you are lucky, a little bit fatty. So sometimes it is hard to tell if you are really getting chopped up toro mixed with scallions (I see more authentically prepared negi-hama from actual hamachi cuts, than I do negi-toro). So what is the deal here. Is this a potential way of short changing? Not accusing anyone, just my observations.

[Silverjay]

Where are you seeing something called "tekka" with minced or scraped meat? In SF? My experience in Japan and elsewhere is that tekka is always akami. Tekka maki, tekka-don, etc....

I love negi-toro. My own preparation of negi-toro don would be one of my desert island foods. It's supposed to be made from nakaochi or scraped from the back of the skin or other off-hand fatty, sometimes sinewy bits. Unless I'm reading incorrectly, I've gathered from your post that you think this is short changing or inauthentic, but this is completely authentic. There are actually several fast food type donburiya chain places in Japan dedicated to tekka- and negitoro- don.

[K K]

I have had properly done (in my view) tekka maki where akami maguro (thin rectangular blocks) are used, pretty much at the old school places, but this happens far and few in between. But everywhere else I go (whether it be the Chinese run, Korean run, or Japanese run generic all in one Japanese restaurant), the tekka maki they use is from meat off the bone scrapped with a spoon, or blocks of maguro not "classified" under akami, chu toro, or otoro (let's face it otoro is never used for negi-toro or tekka cuts).

I guess the real question is, how do most of us commoners know that when you order a negi-toro gunkan or hosomaki, whether the nakaochi is taken from the correct position of the tuna or bone for that matter for it to truly qualify as "toro" in negi-toro? The fat content? Obvious some parts are fattier than others and some are just scraps that resemble tekka more so than toro for negi-toro.

I dunno, perhaps I have this warped view of preparing negi-toro from the parts of the fish, like how an itamae would prepare aji tattaki (deskin, debone, carve out the body, cut up scallions, dice, chop chop chop into cubes, mix etc) or as mentioned earlier, negi-hama (for negi-hama gunkan or hosomaki).

I've had nakaochi tekka don and negi-toro don (using spoon scrapping off the bones where there is some bits of fat inbetween the delicious mush) but once in a while, the negi-toro don looks more like nakochi tekka (minus the fat) mixed in with scallions and labeled negi-toro don and called a day. Nit-picking yes, but those who want to know what they are buying are curious :-)

[Silverjay]

Sounds like some shops are just mislabeling items and also sounds like you don't quite have the term down. Negitoro is more generic like "hamburger". Some places will make burgers out of ground chuck and some out of ground sirloin. Some lean and some fatty. Disregard the "toro" in the name as it was given that to make it sound more appealing. There is nothing that "truly qualifies". Many places will add salad oil to the mix if there is not enough fatty bits in it. Anyway, this is just a stomach stuffer item. But some places will obviously do it higher quality than others with freshly scraped bits from good tuna. I saw Sushi Yasuda's crew in NYC doing this after the lunch service recently. A lot of inexpensive sushi places in Japan just buy plastic bags of it that they twist and squeeze like cake icing.

This article in Japanese addresses the common misunderstanding of negitoro. Also, the "negi" does not refer to onions--> http://www.jubako.com/bn/index.php?1978

[bigtuna27]

Hi.KK
First of all, I didn't know negitoro meant the way Silverjey found in Japanese sight. But I bet 99 % of sushi chef in Japan doesn't know either. Anyway Tekka should have solid akami not the scrapes or chopped tuna. That's the cheap way to make it since they get so many scraps in Japan. Here in America, we have spicy tuna roll and sells a lot more than tekka maki. So they supposed to be able to use solid akami. But we also have frozen ground tuna meat very cheap. There are varieties of frozen tuna available and some of them are pretty good for rolls. To order, just ask itamae not to use chopped tuna. As negitoro, spoon scrapes from skin is the best since it's the fattiest. You can also order toro tekka [my favorite]. There is a dish tekka w/o rice. But it's not in sushi category. It's in Kappoh or Kaiseki item and called tuna isobe maki. As nakaochi, unless you buy whole small tuna w/ bones, it's impossible to do that in small restaurant. You can only do that when baby local blue fin is in season which is now and late autumn. You can get frozen good ground tuna cheap and those local baby tuna doesn't last more than 2 days. So why bother. Although I used to get tuna bones from American fish whole seller with the price for the paper boxes they ship in until frozen one showed up in the market. In Japan they sell nakaochi separately with cheaper price at whole sale places but not many here. One more thing, for the cheap negi toro, there is a staff called "Toro-me-yu". This is kind a shortening to add ground tuna to make it taste like ground toro. All the cheap places use it and people don’t know about it. By the way have you eaten tekka using mayo as dipping sauce? Of cause I use my home made mayo for it but it taste almost as good as toro tekka. Over all, you are right on the target. You found the way they short change your tekka. BT

[Silverjay]

Actually, I knew it wasn't meant to be "toro" like the good stuff, but I didn't know that negi was not onion until I read the article. At home I always make it with onion and it's good, but you have to use the white part of Japanese naga negi because it's soft and not too strong. I don't know anything about american rolls or spicy tuna whatever, so maybe I shouldn't have stuck my nose in this conversation. But negitoro was a staple food of mine for a while. Yeah, I sometimes got nakaochi packs at supermarkets as well.

[K K]

Thanks again BT-san for your valuable educational input. The Japanese article you linked Silverjay, is quite interesting (although I had to decipher via google english website translation which was quite wacky reading)

What can I say, Japanese terms can be confusing to some.

Like "tattaki" in katsuo tattaki does not equal aji tattaki. The former is taking bonito rubbed with salt and seared over an open flame, allowing a dark red center and cooked outer layer, and the latter is dicing the horse mackeral sashimi into cubes with minced ginger and scallions.

And negi-hama is typically hamachi diced up like aji tattaki but only with scallions, but negi-toro is spoon scrapped meat off the tuna carcass or bone (or depending on the cheapskate definition heh). Never seen a chef use spoon scrapping to make negi hama.

[TheDescendedLefticleOfAramis]

I always thought "sugi" te-maki was always scraped from the bone ... go figure.

[K K]

That depends. There is a picture in that Vanity Fair article written by Nick Tosches "If only you knew sushi" from some years ago, of Masayoshi Takayama (of Masa NY) handling a bluefin carcass and getting the meat off the bone.

In some parts of Japan, maguro no suji yaki is a delicious side-dish, where the meat by the bone is grilled. Makes for a tasty side dish.

[cgfan]

Indeed, Suji Yaki's a fantastic side dish, especially with a cold beer. That's often served as a small side treat at my favorite sushi bar here in San Diego, Kaito Sushi. It's the perfect vehicle to demonstrate the orchestra of varying flavors one can get out of a good Maguro. The way Morita-san makes it one would swear they're eating an intensely savory piece of beef.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/akatayam...

[K K]

Yeah certain parts of the fish with the tendons, can be a bit too chewy or rough to eat raw (hence the grilling and seasoning). One time this Chinese run sushi restaurant I went to, they served a cut of maguro that had strips of tendon on it, and tried to pass it off as toro. The tendon tasted like...string? Not that I've eaten string before.

Speaking of beef, one of my favorites as a side dish is suji nikomi. Stewed tendon (and meat near the tendon), kind of like Taiwanese style beef noodle soup (flank with cross cuts of tendon), but these are in tiny chunks. Can be served with daikon and konnyaku. Delicious.

[TheDescendedLefticleOfAramis]

It's somewhat ironic you mention "Vanity Fair" (I've never seen this article) ...
my impression of this offering are far more humble ...
more along the lines of some "marinated" fish scales (quite toothsome!) I was presented while drinking sake.

[bigtuna27]

Hi. KK
First of all, I didn't know negitoro meant the way Silverjey found in Japanese sight. But I bet 99 % of sushi chef in Japan doesn't know either. Anyway Tekka should have solid akami not the scrapes or chopped tuna. That's the cheap way to make it since they get so many scraps in Japan. Here in America, we have spicy tuna roll and sells a lot more than tekka maki. So they supposed to be able to use solid akami. But we also have frozen ground tuna meat very cheap. There are varieties of frozen tuna available and some of them are pretty good for rolls. To order, just ask itamae not to use chopped tuna. As negitoro, spoon scrapes from skin is the best since it's the fattiest. You can also order toro tekka [my favorite]. There is a dish tekka w/o rice. But it's not in sushi category. It's in Kappoh or Kaiseki item and called tuna isobe maki. As nakaochi, unless you buy whole small tuna w/ bones, it's impossible to do that in small restaurant. You can only do that when baby local blue fin is in season which is now and late autumn. You can get frozen good ground tuna cheap and those local baby tuna doesn't last more than 2 days. So why bother. Although I used to get tuna bones from American fish whole seller with the price for the paper boxes they ship in until frozen one showed up in the market. In Japan they sell nakaochi separately w cheaper price at whole sale places but not many here. One more thing, for the cheap negi toro, there is a staff called "Toro-me-yu". This is kind a shortening to add ground tuna to make it taste like ground toro. All the cheap places use it and people don’t know about it. By the way have you eaten tekka using mayo as dipping sauce? Of cause I use my home made mayo for it but it taste almost as good as toro tekka. Over all, you are right on the target. You found the way they shortchange your tekka. BT
Ps. If this reply showed up twice, I'm sorry. I think I made mistake.

[pikiliz]

I just finished reading this thread, I have to say ,BT27 great work I wil keep reading it for as long as it is up here. I have learned way more about sushi from all you guys, than I thought I knew..Good job all

[FoodFuser]

My mea culpa

(Sliding into latticed wood confessional box, which adjoins that of bigtuna. I slide the voice door open)

"Forgive me, father, for it has been long time since my last sushi confession.)

Bigtuna replies with the standard "that's okay my son".

"But I have sinned against the standard concept of sushi"

BT: "How so, son?"

"I am partial to oat groats for their better profile as a preferred consumptive grain. But unmilled, they don't stick together. Thus I mixed them 50-50 with Kokuho Rose white rice. Rolled them in nori with some stuff down the center, and the results pleased me enough that I knew it was a sin, and required this confessional. It was good! And gestational! And that Oat Bran effect!! (I digress)."

"Oat Groats, eh?"

"For sure, yeah. But remember the Kokuho Rose!!!" (pleading now)

"Did they stick really good? The closed groats and the sticky white rice?"

"Yes, Big T, like they should, with that endosperm open and begging."

Big T pauses and pontificates before passing sentence from the confessional:

"Go forth with said diet, but please keep it quiet, as there's sushi rules that we administrate."

[bigtuna27]

Ha ha. You are very good my son. I hard long time ago a sushi man opened the joint somewhere in Africa. He tried to use the local rice. As you know he found out it didn't stick together so he mixed with some kind of starch to cook with. He finally made it. If there is a will, there will be a good result. Don't worry my son. You had been SUSHITIZED long time ago. BT

[penthouse pup]

Bigtuna-san,
I spent several hours yesterday with this thread, and it was time well spent. Earlier, maybe a year or more back, you were asked about nori and briefly responded about most coming from China...but what about the very good quality nori that does come from Japan--for example, Ariake nori (which I can get in NYC). Is there a way to distinguish various grades of quality nori or are there "labels" that one should look out for? I know that some packages (distributed by Mutual Trading Company) list Silver, Gold, etc but these come from China...

[bigtuna27]

Unfotunately very good kind nori is not available to retail market. If you can find a way to go to Mutual Trading show room,you can ask for. But again you may have to buy box. Then what you gonna do with them? Find Japanese friend and ask him to buy it on line. I think that's the best bet. By the way gold, ultra premium are the best labels. Good luck B.T

[penthouse pup]

While I await Big Tuna-san's response to KK's latest question, I can follow up on something I asked about last month: obtaining high quality nori. I have found a site that supplies restaurants with the grades mentioned by BT27 and which also sells the "gold" quality in small packets for consumers: NoriDirect at http://www.noridirect.com
The price is very reasonable and the quality is excellent...the rolls literally melt in the mouth...

[bgazindad]

For nigiri sushi and sashimi, is there a standard size or amount for each fish? I notice that the size and thickness of a slice of fish varies from sushi bar to sushi bar and the slices are getting smaller.

[bigtuna27]

There are standard size. But each chef's hand is different size. All I can tell you is rice grain has to be 450~550 per rice ball. 1.5 oz~1.75 oz per couple slice of fish. Enjoy counting the rice grain on your next visit to sushi bar.

[K K]

Big Tuna Sensei,

So you mentioned making those large American bulky boggy multi-ingredient stupid name sushi rolls is not something you're proud of, but obviously it is a huge money maker (ingredients are a lot cheaper, sometimes mostly rice and seaweed). My Japanese friend once heard a Japanese chef refer to it is as Obake Makimono (I don't really get this joke but you Japanese speakers out there might find it amusing)

Do you have any funny stories about these rolls you have made over time you want to share? What is the most "disgusting" roll you've made that you are not proud of that a customer wanted?

Just to show you how bad things have come lately:

- one place I read, just recently started offering a Goodbye Michael Jackson Thriller roll (deep fried tempura with unagi, cucumber, avocado, topped with unagi sauce and tobiko) - $7.95. This is a pseudo Hawaiian fusion sushi boat type place. This place also offers rolls named after cities, high tech companies.

- Coi in Las Vegas has a $1000 High Roller Roll. From an online article:
1.) Using Hudson Valley Foie Gras we will marinade the foie and poach the foie in the sauterne. It is then formed into a torchon (Shape) to the roll.
2.) After the roll is made.. Langoustine (A sweet succulent Lobster) is cut into sashimi and placed on the outside of the roll.
3.) Saffron/Vanilla bean butter will be drawn and brushed over the lobster.
4.) The roll is then encrusted with the caviar
5.) White Alba truffles are shaved table side (By the Chef)
6.) 100 year balsamic is then drizzled over the top

So yes, what are your funny stories about these funny rolls. Let's hear them.

[bigtuna27]

Hi KK. Well I don't have much. Your $ 1000 roll will probably top. One time I was asked by customer to make roll with eel, Toro and sweet shrimp along with Ikura. I told him in his face “Take a hike". The other time this guy asked me to make tempura shrimp roll covered with spicy tuna along with eel sauce. It was very slow that day so after few minutes of thinking, I made it. And I told him "Don't make me do this again. You are insulting me." He said "Why?"
I said "It's just not a sushi. It's a rice sandwich. And I'm not a taco chef" Punch line for this story is I have that on the menu now Ha ha. Business!!!!

[OCAnn]

LOL!

Big Tuna san, you remind me of one of my favourite itamae. His name was "Tony", but he no longer works at the sushi-ya I used to go to. Whenever customers who sit at the counter order a gaijin-roll, he would say under his breath, " we have fresh fish!" or he would get a little grumpy...it made me like him more. It's sad that he's no longer there...I miss him.

[K K]

" Punch line for this story is I have that on the menu now" the question is what honorable stupid name did you give this roll? :-) And do you price it in the double digit range as a joke? Seriously, one place up here that FedEx's fish from not just Tsukiji but also their own private suppliers for the occasional seasonal seki saba, seki aji, Miyazaki wagyu for $26 Japanese beef sushi (a pair), charges $16 for a dragon roll. So the joke may be on the customers who actually go there to order that instead of their in house chu-toro, seki aji or seki saba nigiri.

One of my favorite chefs who was also classically trained in Tokyo, told me that he draws the line when someone requests a chicken teriyaki roll. He has his assistants make the dragon rolls and their cousins.

I think one of the best weird rolls I had one time, was made by a Japanese chef from Kobe (who had no formal sushi training but a good cook). He used aoyagi no himo (the ribbon of a clam), chopped it up along with cucumber (aka himo-kyu) but instead of making the usual himo-kyu hosomaki, he made an inside out roll with the ingredients inside plus wild carrot. Then he drizzled a little srrriacha spicy sauce and a little bit of that artifical unagi/tempura roll sweet sauce over it (light application). I know it sounds weird but at least it was half weird roll half Japanese. Maybe someone can steal this receipe.

[cgfan]

I'm sure there can be an entire thread on the silly things that customers do at the sushi bar. One pair of customers that goes to my regular sushi bar on their first visit sat at the tables and ordered an omakase for two at $15 pp! If I recall right the first thing they got for their omakase was a negi-toro roll, which by itself must have taken up the entire allowance!

But they kept on returning with the same strange request, and to my amazement the shop continues to patronize this pair trying to come up with something to keep it at $15 pp! To me I think that's overpatronizing a customer who should know better, but one has to admire the shop's willingness to please their customer!

[bigtuna27]

Tat's the spirit!!!

[K K]

Agreed...I mean the restaurant or chef could have easily given him something along the lines of 7 pc nigiri (common fish) + one hosomaki (like at some sushi-ya near Tsukiji Fish Market), like a nigiri combo that shows up on a regular menu. So $15 is about right on average for a run of the mill nigiri set (maybe $20++ in Japan or more).

So it can be confusing when someone requests omakase from the tables, and the menu lists either chef's choice nigiri (combo set), or as "omakase sushi", or just "omakase" with a price.

So cgfan's favorite place is actually doing the right and old school thing.

[bigtuna27]

I can’t tell you the name for the roll. I have to hide my identity. But price is $ 13. And it sells well. I had one bite once. It tastes ok. American sushi. Sushi is popular or getting there in China and Korea. But their sushi means American rolls. You know the reason. Now if somebody figures out to do "SUSHI IN THE BOX" franchise, he may be next Jack. Ha ha

[K K]

Big Tuna Sensei

Not too many sushi chefs do this nowadays, but depending on the type of fish, the size of the neta (or tane) there are those who adjust the size of sushi rice pad (shari) accordingly for the nigiri. I'm sure you've done this too. So what is the general rule, ie when to make shari slightly bigger or smaller? Is this also a discipline for the proper fish to rice balance feel in the mouth? And then there are those chefs who even adjust the size of nigiri to approximate the appropriate mouth size of the customer (even more rare).

And finally do you think if someone asked the chef owners at places like Sasabune or Nozawa or Zo (stubborn MY WAY chef / ganko oyaji) that if they can make the shari bigger (since sometimes the nigiri's are very small and then later $$$$ all gone), whether they will be insulted or not? I guess that is better than asking for more soy sauce, more wasabi, or a spicy tuna handroll...

[bigtuna27]

Ok. You are the only one can bring up this level question. I always adjust the size of rice. Not because of the kinds of fish but the size of fish I just sliced. It has to be balanced. Other thing I do is adjust the firmness of rice when I serve them with sauce or the neta is more watery item. It's not for the size of your mouth for sure.
I took that as an insult when lady asked me to make it bigger. Because I was trying to do the best I can to serve best sushi then. But that was 20 yrs ago or more. I don't mind now. I think you know how I feel by reading my other comment. About rice: It is same thing as asking for soy sauce etc. Just leave those AH chefs alone when you are in their place. It's a whole package deal. You are paying for the whole experience not just their sushi.
Just so you know, I still hate making those stupid rolls and other stuff like crispy rice etc. That's an insult to my experience and talent. But that's the biz. God is not fair. ha ha

[K K]

A friend of mine has another criteria for nigiri sushi, he looks for "dimples" on the side of the rice pad (shari). I believe this is part of the nigiri molding process, some techniques call for pressing the sides of the fish, so it forms almost an upside down U shape over the side of the shari. So what is your take on this sensei?

Also some fish are more firm than others, so naturally the molding is different for various fish (again like you say depending on how it is cut). But I see some chefs, they slice the fish really thin so all nigiri shape look the same, no matter the kind of fish (other than the obvious like clam or a firm clam where you can't really bend or curve it. Is that cheating or taking shortcut?

[bigtuna27]

If you are the good sushi chef, it's a common to do that. Dimple is still lazy way but in America probably top class chef can do that. Me? Of cause I do that. U shape all the time is very hard unless you have very expensive joint so that you can do perfect way always. If the chef cut fish too thin all the time, he is the cheap SOB. You can bend clams too. You just have to know techniques. Easiest one is Mackerel. Hard one is Clam, Shrimp and Octopus. And Very delicate Toro like Japanese farm grown toro. Way too soft so it brakes very easy. There is always right thickness for each fish. There for thickness changes depends on fish. In order to make same size and shape, you have to adjust rice. Get it?

[applehome]

In the first show of the TV series Kui-tan (The Gluttonous Detective), a murder is solved when he determines that this master Itamae uses the dimple technique for take-out sushi only, but does not do so for serving in his restaurant. As I remember, it had something to do with compensating for the lack of freshness. I wouldn't take something presented in a comedy to be very serious, but it was a very entertaining series and often informative.

[cgfan]

Actually I remember after seeing that Kuitan episode, perhaps my favorite episode of both seasons, asking the head Itamae of my regular sushi bar, Morita-san of Kaito Sushi, whether or not they prepared the to-go orders any differently at the shop where he trained at in Tokyo. I can't remember the specifics but he did say that it was their practice to prepare them differently.

I also remember hearing anecdotes about Morita-san's grandmaster (his master's master who lived above the shop) who although nearly blind could tell which of his itamae's formed the Nigiri for him by mere touch alone.

And talking about technique, once Morita-san prepared for me two Maguro Nigiri prepared from consecutive adjoining slices from the same loin and asked me to compare them. They were night and day different in taste, as if the tuna itself tasted completely different. The one I liked was full of explosive flavor and was formed in his accustomed manner, while the other which tasted dull and leaden was formed in the manner of a novice Itamae. The way he phrased it to me in Japanese was this... The one I enjoyed had "air" in it, while the other one did not.

Another time I was served a Kampyo-maki two ways - one cut into the six pieces of most traditional Hosomaki, and the other cut into the four pieces of a traditional Kampyo-maki, and was asked by Morita-san to judge them. Like the "Maguro experiment" above, they tasted completely different, with the four piece Kampyo-maki having a very balanced taste over the six piece Kamyo-maki in which the Kampyo dominated the flavor.

All of this speaks to the magic and dramatic effect that subtle changes in the Itamae's technique has on the resulting taste, though I suspect that most customers would attribute these differences to ingredients alone.

[Notorious P.I.G.]

I know of a shop in Shimokitazawa, Tokyo that serves their Shari with air in it as well. It's called Tachibana Sushi. The itamae there, Koichi-San, presses a finger print into the rice then folds it over making a little air pocket.

Big Tuna Sensei, what would be the effects on the fish of having air packed into the shari? I understand that it makes for a more refreshing taste but beyond that I am uncertain.

[bigtuna27]

Ok. Air doesn't make it refreshing or any other affects but one. The rice with air pocket uses less rice but keep the shape same to balance out with the amount of fish. So it will lessen the affects of rice part in sushi. And that make you taste sushi lighter. When you bite in to it you don't feel rice so much so you enjoy sushi better. It's like making the sandwich with thick bread and thin bread. Use thin bread to enjoy the main ingredient better. Use thick bread to enjoy bread taste too [Osaka style classic hako sushi is this type]. The sushi you are referring is Tokyo style so lighter taste of rice is better. Remember sushi taste is combination of fresh fish and good rice. Yet rice is always supportive side. I saw on TV once. The well known old chef made rice and showed that you can see through light from other side. That was amazing.
So answer to your question. It definitely makes the taste better but very hard to do that all the time. Most of the chefs here don’t even know what we are talking about. Too bad

[Notorious P.I.G.]

Thanks for the info, and yes, it is too bad that this technique is not used more often or even widely known of.

I also wish that more chefs would use the fish or shellfish's liver to top their Nigiri. In your opinion what fish and what shellfish have the sweetest tasting liver?

[cgfan]

I suspect that my Itamae's reference to "air" was meant to mean a Nigiri that's not overly compressed, as opposed to a literal indentation in the rice ball, though that was just my impression when he mentioned it to me. Perhaps it's a little bit of both.

I remember him saying that he could make a lot more in the same amount of time by omitting that step, but does it for quality's sake.

[K K]

The Kuitan episode applehome speaks of is this one

http://www.mysoju.com/kuitan/ (click on episode 1) but the explanation of take-out nigiri vs at the sushi-ya technique is seen in part 4.

http://www.mysoju.com/kuitan/episode-... (around 2:45 mark

)

The "dimple" I speak of is created near the final nigiri molding step when the middle of the neta is folded at the ends so it forms a upside U shape to mold over the rice, thus creating minor small dents on the side of the shari.

The "dent" created by takeout sushi, well the episode explains the reasoning behind that one. Basically if take-out or supermarket nigiri were made the same way as in the store, time and temperature (especially refrigeration) would make it taste a lot harder and nastier (those who have eaten supermarket refrigerated sushi will know the difference).

And yes cgfan is right, the "air" in a shari can be controlled by the density and firmness of grip by the itamae's hands.

Bottom line does the nigiri "melt" in my mouth, like a soft explosion of flavors (which is why shari to neta balance is important). See if this can be reproduced with 3 day old cooked rice :-).

[K K]

1. A lot of casual sushi eaters prefer unagi over anago because unagi is generally softer/sweeter (plus an extra sweet brushed sauce on top). But old school purists generally prefer anago (sea eel). One of the highlights of eating anago at a good place is a properly prepared nitsume/nikiri (brushed sauce) and recently I had the pleasure of eating some anago sushi that while the anago wasn't spectacular, I particularly enjoyed the sauce a lot. As cgfan had mentioned somewhere in this massive thread, there's a traditional receipe that involves anago bones.

So bigtuna-san, can you share some secrets of the anago nitsume making process (the classical way). There's something about a base broth (ni-jiru), then cooking the anago inside with anago no hone (bones) and the head maybe. Then mirin, soy sauce (anything else?) What's the magic needed to make it not too salty and finger licking good, and cook time to achieve this consistency? I read that Sushi Bun (150 year old place in Tsukiji fish market) their nitsume came from massive vats handed down the 3 to 4 generations, continously cooked and added on top so it is as thick as molasses but very rich.

2) Other than ni-anago, ni-awabi (abalone), maybe hamaguri (clam), what are some other interesting or creative applications of this anago nitsume at the sushi bar or cooking in general?

[bigtuna27]

Hi KK. I'll answer from 2 first. Nitsuke supposed to be made from the item you are serving. Ex, Niawabi uses nitsuke from awabi. But it's too much work to make each nitsuke so they usually use one nitsuke which is anago nitsuke. I use it for other dishes to enhance sweetness of the dish or richness. Think it like wine reduction sauce in French cooking. But it's little fishy so don't use it like balsamic reduction on salad .ha ha
1. You need to fillet anago first and cook them. Here is the method. I don't mind anybody using my recipe but if you ever become very famous like TV chef. You have to pay me ok? 1. Boil water with little salt. Turn the heat to low. Add sake and mirin mixture then add anago. Cover with floating lid and cook 1 hr.
2. Take anago out carefully after cool off little. Strain water and heat to reduce to 1/3 of the amount using mid ~ low heat.
3. Add regular soy sauce and mirin mixture and reduce until most of the surface is covered with bubble. [You can use low sodium soy sauce but adjust the other ingredients]
4. Turn the heat to very low and add sugar or corn syrup. Stair well to avoid sticking or burning.
5. Take off from the stove and let it cool off under room temp. Store in the fridge but let it out for a while to soften when you use it. This lasts long time.
6. You better stand or stay right there after 3. Other wise you'll fail. You can't cook too long but you can't take it off too soon either. You have to be very patient. But the joy you feel when you made the near perfect nitsuke is unexplainable. It'll make you smile even if nobody is around. Happiest time in the kitchen. Since nitsuke can be used for other items you can add scrap clam, white fish bone, octopus head etc. Just make the stock first then add it to the nitsuke and reduce again. Enjoy burning the sauce. I know you will.

[K K]

So there is no need to add any konbu or katsuoboshi in this ni-jiru / base stock for nitsume, yes? But do some chefs do this? Sounds like this can be mixed with some dashi to make like udon broth or cooked with oyako maybe. Super juice.

[bigtuna27]

You don’t need any of Konbu or Katsuo dashi. What you can add is scrap daikon to lighten up the sauce. Oh I forgot to mention. You can keep the heads and bones for next time unless you want to make double amount. If you do, you have to make broth separately with same method then combine together. If you add this to udon or oyako, it will taste way too strong. You better use regular way. What you can do is when you make pan fried tuna steak you can add little with butter. Again this is a very strong flavored sauce. It works best with Fresh water eel or Sea eel related dishes. Enjoy

[Cinnamon]

OK, I've got four questions:

- What do you like to use sushi rice for besides sushi?
- Any favored uses for black sticky rice?
- Why does sushi salt taste so great, and what else do you use it for?
- Yuzu. Best form for flavoring sushi with? (Fresh/powder/paste, what?)

Thank you.

[bigtuna27]

You can make salad like pasta salad. You can make good fried rice with day old rice. Black sticky rice is commonly used for dessert in Asia. They make variety of rice cakes. You mean sea salt? Sea salt is not pure salt. It contains flavor from ocean like sea weed shell fish etc. It is a good idea to sprinkle on the dish at the table. Using those to season while you are cooking, is waist of money. There are a lot of other seasonings too. But Yuzu is the most common one. If you are talking about sushi only, infused soy sauce, citrus pepper, kabosu ,tade etc.

[bgazindad]

1. I noticed that the price of Bluefin tuna loins at Mitsuwa is about $36 per lb. 1 or 2 years ago, it was $49/lb. Why has the price dropped? Is the tuna a different quality or is it coming from new markets like Europe?

2. I read in a Japanese restaurant trade magazine that all the best bluefin in the world is going to Japan and creating shortages in the US. Is that so and does it mean that we, in the US, are getting Japanese rejects or second rate bluefin?

3. A local sushi chef told me that he did not use "Boston Tuna" because it is not as good as it use to be. Do you believe that or was he just making a excuse for not carrying "Boston tuna"

[OCAnn]

Perhaps the difference is in farmed v wild. Most (not all) of the fish sold these days @ Mitsuwa/Marukai seems to be farmed.

[Sam Fujisaka]

Bluefin tuna is just now being farmed successfully in Australia on a small scale. Almost all tuna is still wild catch.

[bgazindad]

It is my understanding that the Japanese have successfully raised Bluefin from eggs and they are being sold in the US but the number is extremely small and I doubt that they affect market price. Further, No one has been able to induce or control bluefin spawning. The eggs are collected from wild tuna and incubated. I believe the tuna from Australia are caught and penned wild juveniles that are raised to larger marketable sizes.

[Pablo]

Kindai are the tuna being raised from eggs in Japan. Export is very limited to the US. More on this topic:
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/623816

[Sam Fujisaka]

Demand elasticity. Demand has dropped in the face of the economic recession. Just like oil.

[bigtuna27]

. First of all, it’s nice to see old friends still checking my blog. Hi OcAnn, KK, Sam.
1. Less demand due to the economy and more supply because of farming. A lot of BF comes from Europe now a day. From Spain, Croatia as farmed. Morocco is wild one. Spanish and Croatian are pretty good and fill the needs when wild one is out. Moroccan one has less fat and taste closer to big eye. No body wants to carry Australian BF. It doesn't last long. It's very fatty but fewer flavors.
2. You are right on the target. But less demand in Japan means we are getting better one here.
3. I still think Boston taste best. Let's see its season starts soon. Honestly even though Bf price at the sushi bar is high, we don't make much profit out of it. Its kind a chef's pride and service to their customers. Most of the places are just getting break even. I wish I don't have to carry. Oh by the way I carry BF from Japan. Farm raised one. It tastes close to Australian one. Lots of fat but not much flavor. It also very delicate in texture. Boston BF rules

[bgazindad]

1. When is the peak month or months for seeing Boston tuna in LA sushi bars?
2. Do you know what LA sushi bars are most likely to stock Boston tuna?
3. I am thinking about buying from American Fish and Seafood. Have you done business with them? Do you recommend them? It will be for home consumption.

[bigtuna27]

1.Late July through early Sepember. get it when you can
2.High end or small sushi bar who cares and have customer who cares.
3.Amrican fish is good company but they are specialized in tuna from Hawaii. Try their sister company L.A fish if you can get in. You may have to buy a lot though.

[OCAnn]

Hi Ooki-tuna san! Are you at a new susha ya now?

[bigtuna27]

Yes I am. I am in charge of operation at this small sushi bar and doing my best to balance business and my ego.

[OCAnn]

Congratulations & ganbatte ne! BTW, whereabouts in town is it?

[bigtuna27]

It's west side. I love to see you guys in person but same time I'm so afraid since you guys are soooo groumet. Ha ha

[bgazindad]

Would you please let us know what sushi bar you are at on Westside? I owe you a debt of gratitude and would like patronize your bar. Please include your hours.
Thank you

[bigtuna27]

Hi. I'm sorry I can't tell you. Not only I'm afraid you super groumet guys but also it's against Chow Hound policy. We can't use this to gain business. Let's leave it as a mistery. ha ha.

[K K]

"I read in a Japanese restaurant trade magazine that all the best bluefin in the world is going to Japan and creating shortages in the US."

Not sure about creating shortages, but your trade magazine is not the only source that is saying this. This is just resulting in US sushi bars having access to 2nd tier(?) grade stuff which is probably the best one could obtain. I believe it to be true about the best staying in Japan, much like certain kinds of Japanese beef. Unless you have some wicked connections to get them outside of Japan to the US, like Urasawa or Masa (private buyers). But somehow I still doubt that even these powerhouses can get the kind of Japanese bluefin that for example Sushi Mizutani in Tokyo does. Bottom line, even with top distributors/big name wholesalers, if you are willing to pay, you can get a lot of things out there (right Bigtuna-san?)

[bigtuna27]

You are right. All you need is money if you are Japanese and know what you talking about. If not, I don't know. You may get conned. ha ha

[bgazindad]

I catch my own tuna, yellowfin, bluefin, and albacore. Typically, the fish is put in a low 30s degree brine as soon as possible but not longer than 30 minutes after catching and filleted that night then returned in sealed bags into the brine. We dock the next morning about 7:00 AM. The fish is about 12-24 hours old since being caught when we dock. The belly section is also kept. I usually eat it the night I am back and over the next two nights. The rest is frozen or given away earlier.

1. The fish is very good but is there anything I can do to improve the taste?
2. How do you prepare the belly section? filleting techniques or cooking? Lots of bone and cartilage.

Unrelated questions

1A. For tuna, Do the sushi bars get their tuna from the wholesale houses in downtown? If not, where to they get their tuna?

2A. Some sushi chef say they go to the markets everyday and pick out each fish personally. Is that a common practice?

[bigtuna27]

Answer to your question
1.Blufin tuna; You can wash or wipe blad so that it will taste less fishy. Albacore ; Cure them with light salt for 1 hour then wash the salt with water. It will taste a lot better when you eat it raw. You can also sear them after cure them.
2.If it's yellow fin, pan fry them in butter and finish with garlic,sake and soy sauce
If it's blue fin , best eat it raw but also taste good pan fried. Albacore; Sear them and eat with garlic ponzu sauce.
1 A. Yes they are.
2 A. It is the old fashion practice if the sushi man is old and experienced. Most of the sushi bar get them delivered.

[K K]

2 A. There are some chefs who might not go to a fish market, but their wholesaler / distributor / warehouse and personally intercept the cargo and inspect it.

And yes there are those who still head out to the fish markets early in the morning to get what they need, in addition to sourcing to deliveries from overseas or via a distributor.

[ankimounisalmonlover]

Why is it that everyone thinks their sushi bar has the best sushi?

[bigtuna27]

I honestly don't know. But who will admit they are not?

[ankimounisalmonlover]

I think most patrons of sushi bars think the sushi bar they go to is the best one ever.
If they get out and try different sushi bars they will try different sushi and learn new things. It's helpful for people to go when it's not very busy so you can talk to, ask questions and learn from the chef. If he is real busy, he won't have time to talk very much.

[scubadoo97]

Sushi Man, thank you for providing the wealth of information so far.

I recently ate at a little sushi bar in Coral Gables Florida called Matsuri. The sashimi was like notthing I've had before. chunks of salmon, yellowtail and yellowfin tuna that were maybe 1/3-1/2 of an inch thick that melted in my mouth. The texture was exquisite.

How can I get fish like this at home?

I've been playing around making sushi and sashimi at home but the fish is in no way like what I just had. More like the corner sushi bars around me. Even fish fresh from the ocean that I've shot has not had this ultra silky texture. What gives?

respectfully,

Scubadoo97

[bigtuna27]

Hi. It depends on where do you live? If it's LA, I can show you few places. If it's Florida. I have no idea. Why don't you ask your sushi man. You may fiond whole sale market you may get in on certain days. Or you can ask for Japanese market. But you have to remember the fish you catch in ocean may be fresh but may not have flavor. It's not that simple. Like me ,I always work on fish some how. It may looks just fresh fish but not. There are hidden technics for that simple look fish. You have topay for that. no short cut there. Good luck.

[bigtuna27]

Hi guys. long time no talk. I have new blog in chowhound about Izakaya. [ New Izakaya in Venice] Check it out and let me know. B T

[dandy29]

I notice this thread is from a few months ago - hopefully I'm not too late with my question...
In April my family and I are traveling to Japan (nine of us!!) we have been planning the trip for a long time and for most of us it is the first time to Japan and we don't know when we will have the chance to experience the country again... We are a family of foodies and will enjoy seeking out some of the best sushi places, but we are traveling with two girls (6.5 and 5 years old) - how accommodating can we expect them to be in restaurants of the caliber of Sukiyabashi Jiro to the tastes of young western girls? Unfortunately I don't know enough about the Japanese culture to understand the attitude to children... we don't want anybody to be offended but at the same time we don't want to miss out on once-in-a-lifetime opportunities. Anybody else have similar experiences?

[FourSeasons]

Sukiyabashi Jiro at Ginza does not even accept reservation from non-Japanese speaking guests. You may want to try the one at Roppongi Hill branch but such high end sushi places are very small and intimate; the one at Roppongi Hill only sit 10-12 persons, and you are expected to pay around Yen 20,000 per person (around US$200 per person), so i am not too sure if you want to pay such budget for the two young girls. The ambiance there is also very serious. If you want to seek high end sushi places in Tokyo where the chefs speak English and the atmosphere is relax and friendly, I would recommend instead Sushi Kanesaka at Ginza or Sushi Saitou (opposite American Embassy), but again, just to remind you these are very small restaurants. Chef Kanesaka has actually told my friend he will accept kids for lunch but perhaps not for dinner, if I recall correctly. You would have to book the whole restaurant for 9 persons (Sushi Saitou can only accommodate 7 persons) and prepared to pay Yen 15-20,000 per person!!!

I would recommend you to pose this question on the Japan Board. You are more likely to get more responses there.

[dinaofdoom]

i would also suggest posting questions in the japan thread.
there is a wealth of information from the posters there, and i have seen a lot of recommendations for western travelers as well as etiquette-type stuff.

[TheDescendedLefticleOfAramis]

Hey BT27,

Got that ticket!
Being, admittedly, kanji-challenged ... I'd appreciate any pointers toward "deliciousness".
Suggestions ... http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3449/3...

[applehome]

Whale, huh?

I thought you were going to stick to the fugu testicles:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28874327/

[bigtuna27]

When you going? Where you going? How long you are going? It all depends.

[TheDescendedLefticleOfAramis]

autumn, 3 weeks, open plan

AH: back-to-back:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9400EED71639F933A25755C0A960958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
http://joi.ito.com/moblog/entries/200...

[bigtuna27]

Best time to go. You still have time so I'll reserch and let you know. BT

[Insidious Rex]

I need some background on uni. Is there a sushi grade form of uni? Can you aquire it if you arent a sushi chef or connected to a wholesaler or fisherman? What type of urchin do they generally come from? How long can good uni last before it loses its charateristic flavor and mouthfeel? I hear it has a VERY short shelf life.

[bigtuna27]

Hi. Uni has several grade. There are 2 common type uni. Purple and Bafun. Purple is better one. You can't buy any uni in shell at retail market usually. But you can buy boxed one at good oeiental market like Japanse or Korean market. Shell type will last 2~3 days in the frige and boxed one is longer like 5~7 days. Best bet is call the Japanese whole sale fish market and ask them if they can retail. Some place does on Saturday. It's up to your luck.

[Richard 16]

Here's a link to an online source: (They sell S. Cal. uni. )
http://www.catalinaop.com/Sea_Urchin_Uni_s/70.htm

Uni is one of my favorites, but as I'm the only one at home that eats it I can't justify the two tray minimum. They sell them live, too. (As you will see.

)

There is uni from Maine as well,
http://www.seaurchinmaine.com/product...

[Soop]

Great, thanks!

Soo.... This funny story about omakase?

[bigtuna27]

Not realy. I found so many people misunderstand about sushi thing. That doesn't limit customers but also sushi chefs too. Yeah they can call it any way they want since this is America. The main idea is get you guy's tension and tell you what sushi is all about basicly. With good knowledge, you can understand and enjoy more right? I think I made this blog OK. Any question is welcome. I'm still here. Have fun. See ya

[TheDescendedLefticleOfAramis]

So ... are you really from Queens?
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/5831...

[bigtuna27]

No I'm originaly from Kobe Japan. I've been in LA past 30yrs.

[Soop]

Sushi man!!! Glad your'e still here. I learned on Friday that my friend was buying up some sushi making kit, and I said I'd ask your advice on some things.

He's got a mat for making maki rolls, but I believe he's making nigiri too. At the moment, he's bought some salmon. I've told him he needs to use sushi grade fish, but how is it treated differently? I know this one is frozen, but tbh, I don't think he should be eating it.

[bigtuna27]

Hi. Soop. Well if the salmon was frozen you can use it for sushi. Hope he bought in Japanese store though. To make it taste good: Salt them lightly,wait 1 hr , rinse it with light vinegar water. This step will take out fishy smell and kill bacteria on the surface. Also make it more flavorful. Enjoy. BT

[thursday]

Wow, what a huge and informative thread! Now I'm going to ruin all this fancy information with a horribly basic question: When we go into a sushi place, the chefs always call out a greeting. What are they saying? And what's the best response? I always give a slight bow and a very awkward smile, because I don't know the etiquette at all.

Thanks bigtuna! I want to come eat in your restaurant! Do you still prepare sushi in L.A.?

[bigtuna27]

Hi. They are saying "Irasshaimase" which means "welcome". There are no rule to response to this but you can raise your hand and smile. That will be most proper response I think. I'm still in LA but the restaurant got hit from this economy crises and changed owner. I'm jobless now. You wanna open sushi bar with me? ha ha Now I'm taking it easy and enjoy surfing. See ya

[OCAnn]

BT, akemashite omedetougozaimasu! Thank you for your advice.

[bigtuna27]

謹賀新年　今年もよろしく　お手柔らかにお願いします
Happy New Year. Take it easy please. BT

[katana750]

akemashite omedetou gozaimasu. kotoshimo yoroshiku onegaishimasu.
itsumo tanoshiku yondemasu

[TheDescendedLefticleOfAramis]

a follow-up ... anko-nabe ( i note, you enjoy )
i've asked: roughly ... "unless you work in the kitchen ...".
why is this?

[bigtuna27]

I tried to find what are you talking about but couldn't. Please give me more detail about your question. I'm happy to give you answer when I understand what you asking about. Sorry BT

[Pablo]

Hi BT27, I think the poster is referring to why is it so hard to find anko-nabe? You can usually get ankimo, but any other anko seems to be a rare find at a sushi bar. I was fortunate to get anko tempura once this year at my favorite sushi bar in the San Diego area. The itamae there usually only makes his own ankimo, but this time he had the whole fish too. Check it out:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sushimaniac/2852529866/

My question, why isn't there more hoya around? I really love it and it so hard to come by. I only had it one time this year: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sushiman...

[bigtuna27]

Hi. Pablo That was Kaito in san diego. Very famous and expensive joint. H~~~m you are rich ha? Anko is known as Monk fish. You may not be able to get whole fish but I find in American fish market some times as fillet virsion. Freshness for that fillet,i can't tell but supposed to be good for cooking. Why don't you make it by your self. or better bring it to your sushi bar and ask chef to make it for you. Hoya; I only had few times in my life. It's available some times at fish market we buy. But it has strong flavor. May be that's the reason sushi bar doesn't serve often. Personally, I don't like it.

[TheDescendedLefticleOfAramis]

Thanks for that follow-up, as well as the Kaito rec you and cgfan posted
(checked it out this summer ... very cool ... front, back & counter)

[applehome]

So, sensei, do you have a good Ozoni recipe? Do you use anything special?

I bought my mochigome and made batches of mochi in my Tiger mochi machine to give to my friends and family. I will make ours Thursday morning. Not the same thing as pounding with the big wooden hammer, like my family used to when I was a boy. But I still make mochi every New Year.

Happy New Year to you and to everybody!

[bigtuna27]

Ozoni. It's so simple and rather easy item. But every house hold has their own recipie. And every single recipie is good. I don't know why? I think it's all up to the mochi. So it's a good thing you are making it by your self. Few community in LA makes mochi by old fashion way every year. I'm not close to Japanese community but you can find it Japanese news paper. Good luck and Happy New Year to you.

[sayohashi]

Hi BF27.
I just like to congratulate you on this successful blog.
I wish you and your wife happy and prosperous new year.

[TheDescendedLefticleOfAramis]

Hi BT27,

Some time ago, I was served a sashimi course which was presented with several sprigs of kahojiso.
Are there specific flavor enhancements that I should note when it comes to tsuma?
Do bakudaikai, bofu, suzenji/akaito nori, benitade, murame or yori-udo suggest certain pairing?

On a recent occasion, I enjoyed suppon served as shirumono - locally.
If I were to buy that ticket and seek a nose-to-tail experience, is there a specific locale (prefecture/town) for this specialty?
Is it true that you can identify such shops since they fly a banner with a single, circular stroke?
A fugu course might feature hire-sake, I can't recall the name of the comparable drink for this outing.

Best wishes for a prosperous New Year.

[bigtuna27]

Wow you asked hard to answer questions. Kahojiso[hanahojiso] is still available through fish co. I used to use it from my garden. benitade; Friend of my friend used to farm grown to sell it here in LA. But didn't work.Yori-udo; you can make it if you can get fresh UDO. Others may not available in LA. I know one place serve "Supponn" in MB. I think he uses pre cleaned vaccum packed supponn. Check on internet if you want to go Japan. I don't know much about it. Hire sake is fugu hire dipped hot sake. So tha you supposed to be able to feel poisn a litte. You can buy fugu hire at Japanese market sometime. Good luck

[K K]

Big Tuna San, since you've been in LA for so long, you must know who Toshi Sugiura is. Have you been to his former restaurant, Hama. Do you consider him a pioneer for what he has done to open up sushi to the western world (via his academy), or is he somewhat of a traitor for sharing the secrets of what is supposed to be a carefully guarded tradition? For people who are really really interested in enrolling in the program, do you think it is worth the $5000+ tuition where they learn to make big ass stupid name rolls, saba shio, tamagoyaki and even more classic dark arts? Are there alternatives?

And is it really true that the California roll was originally invented for Japanese people because toro was very difficult to find and a substitute was needed?

[K K]

Nevermind the 2nd paragraph's question. I seemed to have found the answer thanks to Silverjay's mention in the sushi and avocado thread where avocado was used as a substitute to toro many years ago in Los Angeles when toro was not readily available.

[bigtuna27]

Hi. Yes I know him well. So I don't want to talk about him a lot. He is in a way a pioneer. Sushi school: It is worth for the people want to make good money soon. After graduation, spend couple years in busy restaurant. Then fake the expierience to 5 yrs. You'll be able to take home $2500 /mo or more depends on your luck. Because restaurant owner now a days is not the well expierienced japanese chef . They don't know the quality of skills nor appriciate. All comes down those idiot is money. So yes it worth paying $5000. People like you guys are very hard to find. May be one in hundred. How can we make business targetting to you guys ha? Only few lucky one like sushi -zo, survives. happy holidays. BT

[K K]

For those who don't know what we are talking about.

http://www.sushi-academy.com/

And go out and get Trevor Corson's book "Zen of Fish". Very detailed research into the history of nigiri sushi, history of sushi in Hollywood/Southern California/Los Angeles, the story of the Academy and Toshi Suigura plus the experiences of some of the students (the lead story character is female) , and one of the takeaway messages, exactly like big-tuna san says, that sushi is no longer an art form but a business.

[stricken]

What do you think of Nobu? Are they over-priced? also how do you feel about grocery store chains selling sushi pre packaged? thankyou

[bigtuna27]

Hi. First thing first. Vege-rolls: Just ask. If chef is nice guy,he will have fun creating something for you. If he is not nice and give you hard time ,don't go there any more. Nobu LA; I hard a rumor that they are having hard time. Market sushi is not the best sushi but they are usually safe. Most of them are changed often. Check the date or time they were made and trust your instinct. Happy Holidays

[enbell]

Gosh, thank you for your willingness to share your knowledge, and for your patience with what must seem like (at least when it comes to mine) such silly questions! Happy olidays to you as well :)

[gastrognome]

Greetings bigtuna and thanks for sharing so much information.

On the subject of omakase. I am in love with a very excellent sushi restaurant here in New York. Whenever I go I sit in front of the chef who owns the place, and let him make whatever he wants for me. I am not a regular, unless you consider once a year regular. I wish I could afford to go more often.

I like the element of surprise, and everything he gives me is always incredible.

He is a sushi purist and very traditional. Would he respect me more as a "non regular" if i just ordered from the sushi list, as you mentioned omakase is only for regulars in Japan.

Thanks!

[bigtuna27]

Hi. NY has more traditional style sushi bar than LA. You want him to respect you? Respect him first with being polite, honest, appreciate and at last tip good ha ha. I guess you all done that so if you become friend with him,he will treat you better of course. Big smile after you ate his creation helps a lot. I just want to say" Happy Holidays you all. And hope everybodys are doing OK in this tough time. Thank you all for making my blog this big in short time. God bress you all"

[enbell]

Okay, I wasn't the only one to spend my Sunday afternoon educating myself on the details of sushi! I have learned so much :) Thank you. Here is my question. As a vegetarian, I sometimes find myself out with a group who decides on sushi for dinner. Is it rude to ask for something other than a cucumber roll if nothing else is on the menu? I don't mind them, but sometimes enjoy a sushi chef's innovations. What is the appropriate behavior? Thank you!

[Caralien]

I'm no longer vegetarian, thanks to (or blaming) a year in Spain. That said, there are plenty of non-fish sushi rolls. Carrot-shitake-cucmber rolls remain a great roll. I would reckon that a decent sushi chef would create something for you. Pickled plum, not my favourite, I would often discover in the middle of my triangular nori-covered thing in Tokyo (apologies if I'm being rude, we just referred to them as such)

[enbell]

Que parte de espana?

I agree that there are many wonderful veggie combinations. There are a few places in my are known for their fresh, simple fish, and have no real deviations from the norm. It is these sushi chefs who intimidate me, and I have yet to muster the courage to ask for something not on the menu.

Thanks!

[Richard 16]

Since sushi is based on the rice, not the fish, pretty much anything is fair game. Most places have several vegetarian types, including simple cucumber but also burdock, natto, pickles (i.e., taukuan), carrot, umeboshi plums (as with Caralien), scallion, combinations,etc.,etc. If you eat eggs, there's another option. Baked winter squash or shitaki are two I've made at home. If either is on the menu in another item, ask! (Except the shitaki may have dashi; ask.)

Miso soup may seem like an option but is made with a dashi - a stock which includes fish flakes.

Edit: the eggs may be made with a dashi...

Simply tell the chef and let them go at it.

[Caralien]

No questions here, although I have spent the better part of the past 3 hours reading responses on this post and now know more than I ever thought necessary regarding sushi (fan for 22 years). Sushi bots? I'm sure you're like Jacques Pepin (with perfectly cutting a chicken) and do make it faster, and better.

The best sushi I've had was at a ryokan, 21 years ago (freshness being the ultimate factor for me). I still want to take my husband to Japan so he can experience both the food of the country as well as the craziness that is Tokyo.

Great blog--thank you!

[bigtuna27]

It took 3 hrs ha? Thank you. Happy Holidays. May the Sushi God bless you. Ha ha.

[Notorious P.I.G.]

BigTuna-San, please, if you will, enlighten us with the story and origin behind your knives. What types you use, what your favorite brand is, how you came to acquire them, etc.

[bigtuna27]

Well. I have "Sakai takayuki seijikou shaku" as a good knife. Other one is no name stainless steel shyaku. Seijikou is about 15 yrs old. and other one is 10yrs old. I tried New wave stainless steel too. But I didn't like it. Seijikou steal is made from iron sand collected from the dune at Tottori prefecture and very hard. Hakujikou is softer. I like Masamoto from Tokyo too. Masamoto has little modern than Sakai. Both Sakai and Masamoto are hand made. There are varius good knife makers in Japan. They make modern style to very classic style. I used be in to knife and had more than several but now I don't realy care for that much. Easy to use one is the best. It's all how you look at knife. Stainless one doesn't get rusty and easy to clean but lose edge easily. Good one's edge last longer but pain in you ass to keep it clean and shiny.

[Notorious P.I.G.]

Yes, it breaks my heart to see a stained blade.

Ah, Sakai, very nice!

My father and Uncle are sushi chefs and both use Masamoto around the bar. My girlfriend is also a chef and keeps Masamoto, Misono, and Togiharu in stock. I think my favorite for value is Misono personally but I don't need anything fancy. However, I recently inherited a knife from my father and was wondering if you had any ideas as to its origin or who it may have been forged by.

It's a 10.5 inch Yanagi. I've included a picture of the Kanji engraved in the blade below. Please, if it's not too much trouble let me know what you think!

[bigtuna27]

it reads " Sakai ichimonnji Mitsuhide" or may be "Kikuhide" you can look up on internet. I don't know the value though.

[Notorious P.I.G.]

Thanks for the help!

[Googs]

First, let me start by saying how kind and gracious I think you are opening yourself up to the world of Hounds and their sushi questions. Here’s mine.

As much as anything else, I love certain sushi for it’s mouthfeel. It’s what takes it from just delicious to sexy too. Whether it’s melting Uni in your mouth, or tobiko tickling your tongue, or teeth sinking gently through tender otoro it’s all very sensuous. What do you find has the best mouthfeel and why?

[bigtuna27]

Everybody has their own likings I guess. Mine is thick cut of tender blue fin tuma ten meat. Flavorfull soft barddy meat accompany with right amount of rice made by expierienced chef. Always make me happy. And I don't have to go anywhere. Ha ha. 1 piece will do the job.

[FourSeasons]

Hi bigtuna27:

Two questions today:

1. What is the difference in the texture and taste of the sashimi between farmed fugu and wild fugu? Is wild fugu available in US? (From my understanding, most of what is exported is just farmed fugu) If yes, how much do you charge for a wild fugu ryori kaiseki (from sashimi, skin, shirako, karaage, nabe, porridge etc etc)? Personally, I actually prefer the lesser known kawahagi to farmed fugu, but I have never really tried the sashimi of wild fugu, so seeking your opinion.

2. This is winter time now: do you prefer kue nabe, anko nabe or fugu nabe? What is your favorite nabe?

[bigtuna27]

1) No FDA prohibit to import wild one. You want to try real one? Call travel agency. It's the season now. Even if you had chance to eat wild one in US,texture will be same. Because it is prosessed already. But if you had it in Japan. Both of them taste better there. Differnce between wild and farm raised is POISN. Wild one ,you can feel it. 2) Anko then Kue. I'm not the big fun of fugu.

[FourSeasons]

1. I don't understand what you mean by POISN for the taste difference between wild and farm fugu. What do you mean "you can feel it" on the taste context? Can you explain further? I have tried farmed fugu in Tokyo. But have never tried sashimi of wild fugu because the meal is so expensive, but did try the skin and cheek karaage style of wild fugu on some ryori meals.

2. I agree with you on nabe too: I prefer anko, then kue, and last fugu. But price wise, it seem to be just the other way.

[bigtuna27]

Ok. I explained this way back but one more time for you. Fugu doesn't produce poison. They just eat the shell fish which produce poisn for self protection. Like star fish etc. They just keep those poisn in their brad for their self protection. There for farm raised fugu doesn't have poisn because they are fed man maid bait.1) How you feel it? When you eat wild fugu specialy sashimi, You may get tingling feeling on your tang or inside your mouth. If you eat cooked virsion like karaage or soup etc specialy when you had sake to go with,you'll feel warm or you can feel you brad flow faster. So that's the difference.[ Oh By the way you feel tingling sensation on your face or lips,you have 1 1/2 hr to live] And that's why fugu is winter food. Farm raised fugu is nothing compaired to wild one. You are paying for that thrill. No matter how cheap it is jankie doesn't do fake drugs right? ha ha. May be not a good example though. Get the air ticket now. Real one cost you around $ 150~200 per person in Japan. 2) I prefer angus beef humberger over kobe fillet mignon. ha ha.

[FourSeasons]

1. Thanks for the explanation. Upscale ones in Tokyo cost US$300-500 per person. I wish I can get air ticket now, but Yen is too strong at the moment. Can't afford anymore. 2. Haha..good point.

[bigtuna27]

I have a Question for all of you guys. No offence but which one of you are coucaision and which one of you are asian decent? I'm just curius since you guys know so much. I'm realy impressed here. My wife and i are debateing who's who? If you don't mind telling me. Thanks BT

[Caroline1]

No, no, no! Wrong question, BT san. The right question is, "Hey, how many of your guys ARE sushi chefs?" '-)

[bigtuna27]

Ha ha. I don't think any of you guys are. We are simply curius. I think all of you are asian decent. And there is no Japanese. But I seriously impressed about you guys knowledge. I didn't expect this much when I started this blog. Not bad as a first time blogger ha? I'm having fun. I thak all of you joining my blog. I wish I can open the sushi bar to satisfy all of you in the furure. It'll be challenge and fun.

[applehome]

Why do you say nobody is Japanese?

[bigtuna27]

Just gessing. Are you?

[applehome]

I'm hanbun. I was born in Camp Zama and grew up in Hodogaya near Yokohama and with my mother's family in Yokosuka. It was all tambo when I was a kid. Wonderful place - not like today, all concrete and small factories.

I'm the youngest one here:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v61...

[K K]

A few comments in response to the various recent posts:

- from searching around the internet, the "best" place to have fugu in the USA is at Masa New York. The cost will probably be at the upper end of an upscale Tokyo place as Four Seasons quoted. The caveat is that based on 2005 reports, Masa's fugu offerings is more or less fugu served 3 way (which includes the liver), as part of his hybrid kaiseki and sashimi/nigiri omakase. Given his reputation, I don't think he would serve farmed fugu. But does prep the fish in front of you. Why he is able to serve fugu but not Urasawa, is still a little bit of a mystery (although with Urasawa, apparently customs found out about his secret shipment).

- I'm sure good fugu set dinners (full) will be cheaper outside of Tokyo, so why not do that instead of eating at Masa NY (for those who may want to consider having fugu in the USA, do it in Japan instead). Try Kyushu, Shimonoseki where most of the quality wild fugu come from, and places like Nagoya.

- go to google.com and search for fugu Masa. There is one good NY times article on fugu and two articles from nymag (good reading).

- Anthony Bourdain ate at some well known Tokyo (?) fugu restaurant during his "Cook's Tour" . I can tell he prefers richer flavor fish (toro, uni), so I am not surprised he found fugu "bland" and his expected near death experience rather unexciting.

- People who love to eat and are passionate about food, will find ways to learn about it in any means no matter their ethnic background. So the question is moot who is Caucasian or Asian or Japanese posting here unless they volunteer their answer (mine has already been revealed some 100+ posts up somewhere in the thread). In addition to actually going to restaurants and talking to chefs there are plenty of resources and media/mediums. Of course it helps if you already know the native language of an ethnic food of interest (inclusive of Japanese food and sushi).

- There are people who are not also passionate about food but learn the history and origins and processes (including cooking). Personally I suck at cooking. I leave it to the professionals and the moms who know what they are doing at home.

- If we ate at Big Tuna's sushi bar, I don't think we will leave once we go inside. Too much to talk about. Just don't get us too drunk.

[FourSeasons]

Hi KK:

Just a comment on fugu and Masa:

I seriously doubt if wild fugu liver is served in Masa; that is supposed to be the most poisonous part of fugu. The article seem to mention "fugu karaage", but most of the time, the part that is served karaage style is the fugu cheek. I seldom heard of liver being served karaage, and that includes anko or kawahagi. Maybe BT can confirm if I am right or wrong on this matter. There is this menu (already translated to English) by a well known fugu house Tsukiji Yamamoto at Tsukiji Japan and I don't see any liver too. Here is the website:
http://www8.plala.or.jp/tsukijiyamamo...

As to Masa, its serving of fugu 3 ways cannot be compared to a high end fugu house in Japan. The fugu specialist would only served fugu, and a full course fugu is usually more expensive than other ryori. And based on my own experience, fugu is best served at one specialize in fugu rather than a generalist that served many other dishes. And while I have written above that I find Sushi Yasuda to be "value for money", I am certainly puzzled by the charges at Masa and Urasawa to be so expensive based on the review I read by bloggers as compared to the top end ryori kaiseki places in Tokyo (which charge about US$150-350 per head).

Hi Bigtuna:

I am not Caucasian; I don't live in America; one of few non-American members in Chowhound.

[Silverjay]

Speaking of fugu, I'm kind of looking forward to trying pickled fugu ovary in Kanazawa in a couple of weeks. It's a local delicacy. In Japanese it's called 河豚の卵巣の糠漬け. Info in English available here- http://shofu.pref.ishikawa.jp/shofu/d... .

[bigtuna27]

Kanazawa ha? Try konowata, konoko. They are very famous for it. I wish I coud go with you ha ha. Good warm rice made with barning wood and qwail egg york and konowata. Best way to finish meal at Izakaya. Not mention their local fishes and sea food. U~~mmmm. You are lucky.

[laurafoodfan]

I am out in Buenos Aires at the moment and they love to use warm rice out here with there sushi. I would compare the sushi out here to a sort of McDonalds Sushi,its good in a sort of sweet junk food style but it is not sushi as we know it.

[bigtuna27]

Can you describe more. I'm curius. I can't believe they eat sushi over there.

[ssainani]

i only know what i've read -- but i've read from MULTIPLE sources sushi is very very common in south america -- even available as a street food in certain cities

[bigtuna27]

Do you think it because Japanese decent overthere? I know a lot of Japanese went there after WW2 as an immigrant. Silverjay what your take on this matter?

[Silverjay]

I know of Peru and Brazil as destination countries for Japanese emigrants, not Argentina. And I thought I heard that they went there for plantation farming, not for urban lifestyle. But I"m not sure.

I do know that Nobu Matsuhisa spent time in Peru and I believe, Argentina, working at sushi places prior to going to the U.S. Anyway, it doesn't surprise me that sushi would be popular anywhere now. But most of it is not good. I support the Japanese government "sushi police" initiative to protect authentic culture.

[Silverjay]

I would ask for Kobe recommendations, but I've been there a few times. First time to Kanazawa- http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/567652

[K K]

Bigtuna-san

I think most of us know what escolar is, and it is being passed around other types of sushi restaurants as either

-shiro maguro (instead of albacore)
- super white tuna
- "butterfish" (instead of medai)
- "Walu" (sometimes carelessly marketed as a safe and exotic fish from Hawaii)

and whatever other incorrect names (someone said a restaurant tried to pass escolar as "mutsu!").

Some of us know that it can cause anal leakage depending on the person who eats it, no matter if you serve it raw or seared or fully cooked.

What are your thoughts on using this fish for sushi and sashimi.

Also do you make your own osechi? It's about that time of year.

[OCAnn]

hahahaha @ anal leakage. Sorry. I'm just glad I haven't eaten any. ha ha

[K K]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escolar

Interesting, I didn't know before it was also known as "snake mackeral".

Look under "effects of consumption". I suppose if you want to make your own orange colored "mineral oil" what other better way. Which begs the question, which one does the job better, escolar or stale spicy tuna (or better yet, spicy escolar).

[OCAnn]

LOL @ "which does the job better...."

Might be fun to bring some "tuna" salad to the next office potluck. hahahaha

[bigtuna27]

It also called Ono from hawaii. Mutsu is actualy real name in Japan. I don't like this fish. But some american like it.Because it's oily. everything you said about the result afterwords are TRUE!!!. Osechi? NO WAY.I'm serving for americans 99% of the time. I'll eat standing rib roast.

[K K]

Oh yes... ono. I think I heard that one before. More like HELL NO.

I thought mutsu was "bluefish" and not escolar. I've had mutsu twice at legitimate Japanese run sushirestaurants, and they look like and taste like most typical shiromi sakana, and not the pearl white/super white fish (so blinding and shiny it hurts my eyes) and the mutsu I had definitely kept my ass dry.

So I am inclined to believe those who try to offer escolar are inaccurately labeling the fish, maybe to downplay the anal leakage effects. I've seen someone say ebodai is butterfish, and another restaurant would say butterfish is medai.

I've seen a few chefs offer some osechi items halfway through an almost end of the year meal. So unforgettable :-)

[Humbucker]

Ono and escolar are different fish. ono, sometimes called wahoo (as in Wahoo's Fish Tacos), is in the same taxonomic family as tuna and mackerel. Escolar, as KK mentioned, is a snake mackerel, like the notorious oilfish. I believe escolar is referred to as walu in Hawaii.

Escolar can be consumed in moderate amounts without suffering any side effects; I've eaten as much as six large pieces of sashimi in a sitting and not had any gastrointestinal unpleasantness. I may get myself barred from the sushi connoisseurs club for admitting this, but I think it's a pretty tasty fish; it has a unique juiciness.

[bigtuna27]

You are correct. The point I was trying to make was no sushi bar has right info. They believe what ever Fish Co says. And sometimes Fish Co doesn't even know fish right. I know wahoo. I had it in Hawaii. It's like Baracuda. Kamasu in Japanese. Thak you for info. All those years I thought Ono and Escolar are the same fish. I guess I too believed Fish Co. ha ha

[K K]

So who makes mistakes in fish naming more, IMP or True World? ....

[bigtuna27]

I don't know.But i hard from both of them calling it white tuna. Which has nothing to do with tuna. Well ,i don't want carry anyway.

[Richard 16]

As Humbucker notes, in moderation escolar is fine - unless the diner already has digestive problems.

While a fatty fish, it's not the usual lipids - about 80% is an undigestable wax ester. It's not toxic in the usual sense we think of as a toxin; i.e., a nasty chemical. Unlike mercury there's no long term build-up (of which I am aware), but because it's undigestable instead it goes right through - which is the cause of the problems. Cooking down the fats is helpful, but obviously irrelevant raw.

The FDA recommends no more than six ounces a day, so with the usual neta averaging about an ounce few of us typically reach that level. Individual responses vary so some can eat more without apparent problem and some less.

US FDA/CFSAN - Bad Bug Book - Gempylotoxin

Keriorrhoea--the passage of oil per rectum--after ...[S Afr Med J. 1981] - PubMed Result

[OCAnn]

Keriorrhoea...hahahaha

[K K]

I guess that more or less ends the FAQ about escolar in the world of sushi.

i.e. eat at your own risk and/or in moderation. Avoid entirely if you value the integrity of your o-ring.

[Pablo]

I would stay away, very far away...
"escolar has been banned from consumption in Japan since 1977, as the Japanese government considers it toxic."

-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escolar

[FourSeasons]

Hi bigtuna27:

Just one question: not about sushi, but about fish. I notice when I see the image of kinki nitsuke on blogs posted by Americans, the photo usually shows headless kinki. I actually thought the fish head is the most delicious part of kinki. Can you just explain why the chefs in America cut off the heads of kinki when they present the meal? Is it just too ugly and disgusting to most Americans? And what do they do to the kinki's heads? Throw away?

[bigtuna27]

You are right. I useally take it home for my wife. She loves soup. You must be oriental. If you are coucasion,you would'nt ask this question.

[FourSeasons]

Haha.....your wife is very lucky; kinki is very expensive, she gets the most delicious part and you can still profit from it. BTW, do you gain access to the kinki from Japan or Alaska? And how much do you charge one in a restaurant in LA?

[bigtuna27]

Yeah from Japan I think. $7 for sushi. $17 for Sashimi. I never had a lot of left over so haven't made nitsuke. Besides if i serve borney part, here comes law suit. ha ha

[K K]

Never had kinki as sashimi or sushi before. Does it taste like kinmedai?

[Silverjay]

Me either and I'm interested. But I had a very long sakana-otaku conversation with a chef in Tokyo this summer on these two fish (I actually ate 4 kinki in a week at his place- 2 nitsuke and 2 shioyaki!). He told me they're not related. Kinki. And he mentioned you can get kinki sashimi in Hokkaido when it is very fresh. If BT can add more information, that would be nice.

[K K]

Kinki and Kinme are not related yes, but they are both deep sea fish and can be somewhat similar in taste to most folks.

[Silverjay]

Go to "Site Talk" and recommend they create a "Fish" board.

[Pablo]

Had my first Kinki with head on a couple months ago here in San Diego, it was close to a Kinmedai, but the flesh is definitely more delicate:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sushimaniac/2911383586/
Kinmedai one of my favorites, shioyaki style or nitsuke, I have had at least six heads this year!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sushiman...

[bigtuna27]

Ok I'm sorry. I've got mixed up those two fish. the price i told you for kinnme dai. I did try Kinki sushi but not that grate. If my memory is correct it tasted more like grouper as sushi or sashimi. You need ponzu sauce.

[Richard 16]

And here I thought Kinki sushi was just a variation on Nyotaimori...

[K K]

Yep like Big Tuna says, you've pretty much answered your own question. Isn't curry fish head claypot one of the famous dishes of Singaporean Chinese food (maybe not as famous as curry crab).

In Northern California, the closest one might get to the fish head for most Japanese restaurants is by way of the collar, e.g. grilled hamachi or salmon kama. Some of the more authentic places will sometimes have the fish head as a special (e.g. tai head nitsuke). If the fish is relatively small, the restaurant may not may not include it entirely.
But apparently some people who may cringe at eating the fish head, might have no problem if their cut of bluefin toro kama came from the "neck" portion or the cheeks (hypocritical? :-) ).

You know you are seriously hardcore Asian if you also eat the eyeballs too.

For a reference point, one fusion izakaya place I know of charged $17 to $20 for an order of kinki nitsuke (possibly by weight), not a big fish and I don't think it was whole, but just enough for 2 to sample. They also do a prep that is deep fried, then served with a thicker gravy with vegetables. No idea where they get it from.

[bigtuna27]

It probably be whole fish. The gravy you are talking about may be annkake style. Dashi,soy sauce,mirinn sugar ,ginger and starches.

[Silverjay]

Wow, classic cultural shit guys. Perhaps it's a west coast thing. I order and eat whole fish dishes in NYC all the time at Japanese, Chinese, Thai, Mediterranean, American restaurants. They aren't unusual here or in many other places along the east coast. Actually, I was served kabuto nitsuke (which is just the head and nothing else) as an omakase item at Ushi Wakamaru in NYC last year. I don't think it boils down to just American or white people's sensibilities. I know plenty of Japanese (especially women) who get kind of freaked out by head on fishies....Now what's the deal with those "sticks" that you guys eat with????

[K K]

Not stereotyping here, just answering a theory man.

Are there Whole Foods supermarkets in NY Silverjay? For some reason they always chop and chuck away the wild salmon heads at the local Cali ones I frequent, and that makes me sad.

[Silverjay]

Oh, I'm certainly not implying that fish heads are at the top of American home chef's shopping list, nor that the meat is truly appreciated here. Merely that it's not necessarily a "cringe and awe" type of thing when served in a restaurant as a whole fish dish....I usually shop at ethnic markets and you see all kinds of wacky things.

[FourSeasons]

Hi KK:

Just to correct you: it is Chilli Crab, not curry crab. And curry fish head does not have to be in a claypot; and it is not a Singaporean Chinese food, more like a Singaporean Indian food.

Kinki nituske for just $17-20. That is very cheap but I don't understand how they can serve if it is not the whole. I guess it is cheap because the demand is not high there, or perhaps able to source locally from Alaska (though I did read that the kinki from Alaska is considered as second class as compared to the deep sea ones from Hokkaido). Maybe I should look for kinki more often when I visit LA.

And in my opinion, kinki is much more delicious than kinmedai.

Eyeball is not the good part, it is the area around the eyeball that is real delicious. For hardcore, only the bones are left at the end...

[K K]

O-Maguro Oyakata,

In some of these "how to" professional sushi man books (in Japanese with sexy pictures of the ingredients, knives, fish/seafood etc), on the preparing tamagoyaki section, there is a section on using shiromi sakana surimi (white fish paste) with egg, looks ilke a scrambled egg kind of dish, and the dried up version looks like some sort of either powder or ground mix/flour. What is the purpose of this, and does it really work in using for tamagoyaki?

What are the benefits/disadvantages of adding shiromi sakana surimi for tamagoyaki, vs ground up ebi, vs say, kobashi/clam.

[bigtuna27]

I'm not sure what you are talking about. but i guess you are talking about Oboro. ans scramble egg kind dish is the one finish cooking part. You ha ve to dry up little. It's a shiromi,ebi surimi and sugar . W use them in between rice and tomago to enhance taste. All those ingredients are depends of each chef's preferance. It's for rather classic technic. Major tamagoyaki is dashimaki now. It's easier to make and easier to add your own taste to it.

[K K]

OK thanks for your response. I looked up oboro, denbu and it all makes sense to me now. There are similar but different versions of these in Taiwan, used as flavor enhancements for any food (including bread with mayo) and even inside Taiwanese style sushi rolls (usually made with dried shaved pork, look like brown wool but tastes great. Sometimes made using salmon, tuna, or kajiki).

[bigtuna27]

You like that pork? when I buy pork bun ,i make mistakes some time and end up that stuff in the bun. I can't stand it. It's too sweet. I don't care for denbu eather.

[K K]

Are we talking same thing? Some Taiwanese bakeries in LA have that (also supermarkets).

It is an aquired taste, but the Taiwanese style shaved pork floss is mostly savory with hints of sweet. Kids love it. It's like Taiwanese version of peanut butter topping but is used more widespread.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rousong

It is also a key ingredient for Taiwanese style futo uramaki (cucumber, tamago, rousong, sesame seeds/gomae, some green veg, kani kama or real crab meat etc) and temaki.

Personally I prefer the fish version than the pork, if available. With such a large kajiki and salmon population around the waters of Taiwan, those are the popular alternatives.

[Soop]

I hate cha siu buns too. I'd waited about 10 years to try one, and when I finally tried them they were too sweet. I'd like to try regular ones though.

[Soop]

Ok, I have a question; if my favorite sushi is tuna nigiri, then say seabass nigiri (I tend to like nigiri more) what other sushi might I like?

On a different note, I LOVE gyoza/dim sum too, in case that has any refelection.

Oh, and just say I was to make my own sushi at home, do you have a simple recipe? Or can this not be done?

[applehome]

Just as a matter of differentiating cuisine, dim sum isn't Japanese. Is this important? It is, as a cultural heritage, if nothing else. But it also reflects the palate and the food. Sushi is a highly specialized food that was developed and refined in Japan. I know that you were just providing points of reference, but you might as well have said I like Spaghetti Bolognese.

[Soop]

I was thinking about the fact that they're the same size, based on the same principles of ying/yang (protein and carbohydrate) and they tend to be eaten with soy sauce/ginger etc. They just kind of group together in my mind. I have no idea if there is any sushi that would be at all similar to gyoza, but I'm fairly certain there aren't any that would resemble spagetti Bolognese. although I could be wrong! :D

[bigtuna27]

Hi. This is the answer to your fiest Qs. You seems like food in small bite size. This may be because you are born to eat variety of food like Japanese .This could be a proof that you ment to be groumet. Ha ha If you like Tuna Sea bass you may like Japanese red snapper, Japanese scallops or Albacore. Buy the sushi book. You can do it at home ,if you don't mind practice a lot. good luck

[applehome]

Well then, you might enjoy inarizushi - sushi rice in a small "bag" of aburage - a fried skin of soy protein.

For me, it is that "group together in my mind" that gaijin often express that is on the brink of being culturally insensitive, that bothers me so much. They think oriental is oriental, and it applies to people, food, philosophy... It is what is leading to Americanized sushi served in Chinese and Korean restaurants. Americans can't tell one Asian from another. I admire BT's ability to laugh at it, and ultimately, there is nothing else to do, as there's certainly no way to change it. If I lived in LA or NYC, it would be easier to ignore - just concentrate on the real stuff, as there's plenty of it around. But living in the burbs as I do, surrounded by such poor quality sushi made by generic asians, which is a direct result of the American marketplace demands that don't differentiate by quality, I have a hard time putting up with what I perceive as cultural insensitivity. There is so little authentic, good sushi around. And indeed, the same place that serves dim sum may be serving sushi.

In truth, dim sum, at least in the form of shumai, is well estalished in Japanese cuisine. Yokohama, where I grew up, is the chinatown of the entire Tokyo bay megalopolis, it was the original foreigners quarter. The shumai at the Yokohama-eki (train station) is famous - and indeed delicious - not to be missed. I grew up thinking of it as a delicious food that my parents brought home once in a while - a real treat. I never knew it was Chinese, or dim sum, until I came here. So much for cultural sensitivity.

But back to sushi - it's refinement is uniquely Japanese. It's not that noone else could possibly make good sushi, it's that noone else has it as such a strong cultural, traditional element - with centuries of understanding the techniques, the ingredients, the discipline and training required to make it right. Small round protein/carb could be a slider or cheese and crackers, so it's a pretty meaningless grouping - and yin/yang is Chinese philosophy - taoism. Concentrate on sushi. The vinegar and seasoning of the rice, it's texture and flavor are unique and kick off so many firing points into the brain. Everything else is an add-on - some mighty delicious add-ons, to be sure, but it starts with the su-shi.

[bigtuna27]

Do you remenber " Kiyouken" The famous shoumai in Yokohama and all of Japan. All the foreign food imported to Japan as a part of culture people brought in, we tend to refine it into more delicate taste. Some time i compare chinese shumai and japanese one,I feel japanese are stingy on ingridients. but may be i'm wrong. Just may be. ha ha couple years ago friends of mine who is director, shoot the documentary film about dimsum. Finally she finished edditing and may come out as tv special or part of at least. Keep your finger crossed because I'm in it. You may start form my fan club ha ha. about our food culture; We are farmers so we don't go any where. We just stay in same area so that we could develope very sencitive refined taste bad. Also we have very different 4 seasons. It help us too. Europian is basically hunters. They have to keep moving chaising thier play. In order to have good food ,they developed sauces. So that they can carry along.

[Soop]

Yeah, what you're saying is very true. French quisine traditionally places high importance on sauces, and allows a chef to demonstaate his ability. Traditionally, it's probably the nearest thing to the refinement of some type of Japanese cooking.

OK, I have a question (and I hope I don't sound rude):
if the guy that invented sushi was a drop out who only learned to prepare rice and fish, and then opened the sushi stand, surely all the refinement of sushi and tradition came from that point?
So 50 years later, mr X develops a new technique, and this is more popular etc etc.
At what point is tradition replaced by new techniques? Certainly it must have happened several times, and certainly there must be sub standard Sushi places in Japan?

[bigtuna27]

Hi. I don't know exactry when it started. You can ask Silverjey or KK they know better than me. I think very original one started around 600 century. 1st Nare sushi, 2nd Hako sushi {Kansai style] then modern style [ which is the base of what we eat now] as a 3rd. With in modern style; They made it restaurant in late Edo era. Around WW 2 refregerator was invented so zuke style started to dissapier. Prior that they used only local fish in order to serve fresh fish. Then they start to eat more fish comes from distance like Tuna. After the WW2 they start to eat Toro because of commercal refregration system improved sagnificantly and foreigh food infulence [Fattier food]. 50 yrs ago in Boston where atlantic blue fin came in, they were giving toro part to pigs. Can you believe? So what I'm saying that sushi is also part of food culture we have now. It is keep changing. Ex. Big fat special roll. I saw it on Food show on travel channel few days ago. Tv chef was making rolls made with shreded porl,rice and tapioka paper. He called them Texas sushi. ha ha ha Who knows in 10~20 yrs later what will it become. For the last Q, check internet for " Sousaku sushi"

[Silverjay]

B.Tuna, can you provide more detail on post WWII refrigeration stuff. This came up in another thread, but the author said it had to do with Japanese household freezers. Not sure why...In Japan, I got used to eating zuke lunch stuff on days when Tsukiji is closed. My impression is that zuke is made from leftovers. Also, can you give me the author, publisher of your sushi book in Japanese? I'm interested in other resources.

[Silverjay]

Just to clarify- I meant made from leftovers these days, not traditionally.

[bigtuna27]

Before Zuke was the way to preserve tuna[locally caught]. Not to season it.Zuke became seasoning technic lately because to provide some thing different. but most of the time to get lid of older tuna. because it help to hide old flavor and color. Enjoy day old tuna ha ha

[K K]

I'm terrible at history. Leave that to Silverjay.

I'm sure there was a lot of innovation along the way since the food stall turned restaurant, and many spin-off's like it. Maybe not as well documented online, but I'm sure there are other resources out there.

If anything there is a seeming revival of old style techniques amongst the chefs who wish to continue to pursue it (many of the high end places in the USA and Japan are already doing it). Some of the techniques has already been discussed across this whole thread.

New-new techniques? More like new technology. Brace yourselves for this one, as there are Japanese made machines/robots that automate the entire sushi making process. Search around youtube and you will find sales demo videos. There's one subsidiary in Chicago that is used for North American sales. No idea how much it costs but I'm scared for the future of this cuisine.

Machines dedicated to making sushi rice.
Machines dedicated to making rolls of most sorts (you provide nori, rice ingredients.

and the scariest of them all

you provide sliced raw fish and rice. A machine compacts and makes cookie cutter style molded nigiri shari. You just put the fish on top (some machines might do it for you. And presto, a machine made nigiri. This is already in use across Japan at sushi boat/conveyor belt places (kaiten-zushi). One can only imagine when this is mass deployed worldwide when it becomes more affordable than hiring some random Chinese, Korean, Thai, or other non Japanese person to be a fast creative sushi maker.

Also classically trained sushi chefs, mom and pop type sushi places (neighborhood joints), and those that get handed down either generation to generation, or from one grand master to another (starting off as dishwashers and cleaners) are quickly disappearing from what I'm told in Japan. Lots of chains popping up, or conglomerates owning big shares and being able to buy massive quantities of fresh fish in bulk and in volume. I don't know how true this is, but I would guess that a large volume buyer over time has a better line of credit overall than an average mom and pop shop independently owned place. I can only imagine how difficult it is for a new classically trained sushi chef person in his 30s or so trying to open up an independent shop, if such competition exists. He has to be more than REALLY good to survive.

Big Tuna san is right. Post WW2 is when Japanese people started developing a taste and appreciation for fatty (toro that is) and some argue that the introduction and popularization of French cuisine into Japan is partly to blame for the increase in human toro consumption. I heard it used to be fed to cats, which is why akami/dorsal fin red meat tuna used to be way more expensive than belly.

But yeah isn't it odd that back in the day, pigs and farm animals ate better than humans? Toro and even okara (the byproduct of making tofu, rich in nutritients) were animal stock/feed. But you ask most sushi chefs, most of them want to be reincarnated as Kobe beef, get massaged every day, listen to music, fed beer and good quality grains, no exercise. (most of that is a myth I hear but fun to use as sushi bar conversation).

[bigtuna27]

you know a lot.KK. those machines are first introduced in USA in early 90's. as a matter of fact,I used it for a while. it wasn't FDA approved then. so whent HD came in we hid it with table cloth. Ha ha It cost as mech as mercedes E-class then. We had huge volume of sushi biz and not much space to spread help around. It was faster than help and didn't take break eather haha. Honestly chef like me is 3 times faster than sushi machine. A lot of low end place is widely useing it now. And machine was improved and got cheaperbut sushi bar is not eating sushi but enjoy conversation with chefs and other customers too. Average plus sushi bar still needs human touch. It's like regular bar. You can't talk to machine. Wait they may invent sushi robot which talks ha ha. About Toro. You are right. western food culture influenced some how. Like when we open the door and Meiji era started we started eat beef a lot. Not only Toro but here in USA ,we think purple potato is a groumet thing. Those are pig's food not long time a go. What will come next ?Story about Kobe beef is true. I'm from kobe so I know. BF tuna has been farm raised more than 10 years now. They catch young one and keep them in secluded bay or net out in the ocean. No excercize there. When will they start massage them?

[Silverjay]

Why don't you just create a robot that massages the farm tuna?......

Question: Can you get buri in California? Like real buri, not farm raised hamachi, but wild caught adult yellowtail? Just curious. Also, what exactly do you consider "hamachi" to be? I've heard that there are differences between Kansai and Kanto regarding the names of different yellowtail ages (inada, warasa, etc.) and wild/farmed. Sorry, this is just my sakana-otaku interest. I ask the same question to all sushi chefs. The answer is sometimes different based on where the chef is from...

[bigtuna27]

No It's very hard. You got those name right.

[K K]

Siilverjay, according to people I have spoken to, if you (as a restaurant owner) are willing to pay and have an account with the big wholesalers like IMP and True World (and other sources), and depending on what is in season and available for purchase, you could theoretically get high end and exotic fish of all sorts. The question is whether there is a market for it, and what profit you could make on top of the high cost to procure.

As far as buri, there's a variant called kanburi that I've seen a very small handful of restaurants get for sushi in Northern California, imported from Japan of course.

Last year when I was visiting Taiwan, on cable TV where they air Japan TV programs subtitled in Chinese, there was a in the studio cooking show, where they used kanburi but only for shabu shabu / nabemono. Swish Swish, dip in ponzu and it's a great way to enjoy it.

[Silverjay]

Yeah, kan buri is 寒ぶり in Japanese (although buri does have it's own kanji). It means, as you probably can read better than I can, winter buri. In Japanese, this refers to winter, wild caught adult yellow tail. The most prized of which is from the Sea of Japan- especially off the Noto Peninsula, where they fatten up nicely thanks to the wacky ocean currents. Let me tell you that kan buri makes some of the best sashimi you can eat. It can be marbled in fat and equally as melty. The sushi, although not my favorite, is comparable to maguro chu toro. But shabu shabu is also popular, although I've yet to try. I've seen buri here in New York at Kanoyama last winter. Since there is always confusion over the term "yellowtail" and since "hamachi" refers to both a particular age/sized yellowtail as well as a particular farm-raised variant (possibly two different types of fish actually), the whole yellowtail thing can become very confusing as to what you are actually getting in the U.S. I'm not ashamed to admit that part of the motivation behind my trip to Kanazawa in a few weeks is to partake in kan buri. Also, I eat teriyaki buri and buri daikon as pretty standard winter dishes.

[K K]

Any wild Japanese hamachi or yellowtail/buri is really really really hard to come by for most US run Japanese restaurants. Most of the time your avg neighborhood sushi bar at least in Northern California will use the farmed variety and who knows where it is really from even though the packaging has Japanese characters on it.

[bigtuna27]

Silverjay. hats off to you and your knowledge.

[bigtuna27]

Not True world. Please.

[K K]

Big Tuna Sensei, are you against True World because of the Koryo connection? I can understand...

[bigtuna27]

No. I don't care for their religion. Simply bad quality fish. I had to use them for 1 1/2 yr. I can't stand thier quality. sales person was very nice though. IMP ,La fish and Pacific california are the best we have here. For american fish co, Santa monica sea foos is best all around fish supplier. Funny story is all of them think I'm the A H. It's a benefit for my customer. ha ha

[applehome]

I am curious, though, about True World Foods - how big are they? They're owned by the Unification Church (Moonies) who were at one time major Sushi purveyors - they still own several places in the Boston area, including one near me in Chelmsford, MA. They still own fishing fleets in Gloucester and in Alaska. Do you see them as major players still in the US sushi market?

[bigtuna27]

i don't know how big they are. I just know by my expierience. sucks.

[K K]

True World's website

http://www.trueworldfoods.com/index.php

They run weekly ads in one of our local Japanese circulars (BaySpo) and make it sound like they have their own fish buyers at Tsukiji and can source fish from all 4 or so major fish markets in Japan.

Big Tuna-san, have you tried sourcing kindai maguro, the sustainably farmed bluefin tuna from Kinki University, Japan, for use at sushi bars, and if you have tried it, what do you think? (I will tell you my opinion of it after your answer) There's a myth that yes only a few are produced each year and only big shot places like The French Laundry, Masa, major fancy hotels can get them, but apparently some channels have made it available to others.

[bigtuna27]

I didn't know until you told me.i serched and read about kindai maguro. It was farm grown from egg and fed very selected safe bait[ no macury], It's meat is almost toro and not much red meat. Seems like kobe beef in fish form. When first farm grow Bf came in the market, it was from Australia. And was based on Minami maguro. There for 3/4 of meat was toro. Very rich but didn't last long. 1~2 days the most. it dissapiered and Spanish one came in after few years. This one was closed to wild one as toro contents. But flavor was weaker than natural one. In winter time this one is comnnly used now. I still think N Atlantic natural one is the best in flavor. it is just my guess but farm grown one is luck of exersize so fattier but less flavor and weaker. Like one of those fat kids you see now adays ha ha

[KTinNYC]

The one good thing about eating the fat kids is that they are easy to catch.

[K K]

Well knowledge is out there, you just have to go look for it. Youtube is fun if you search for words like sushi but you get even better results if you search using Japanese/kanji like 寿司 or the more classical 鮨 .
I believe if you search for sushi robot on youtube you will likely get one of those nigiri and sushi making machines.

I think you can only massage fish once they are dead. If you can massage them while alive and in the water, you are in the wrong line of work!

Big Tuna San, when did the first kaitensushi open in Los Angeles, and was it conveyor belt or a sushi "boat". I can't remember when was the first in Northern Calfiornia, but for San Francisco it was probably the Isobune chain in mid 80s or so.

[bigtuna27]

it opened in SF first. Few people tried but failed. It was convairbelt type. May be still one exsist in Little Tokyo.

[Caroline1]

"Europeans" were originally hunters and gatherers, which was a nomadic way of life. However, once they figured out how to domesticate animals, they became farmers. That happened a very very long time ago.

The primary difference in Japanese and European diets comes from the geophysical differences and proximity to the sea. How far is the farthest any Japanese village is from the sea? Not far by European standards! So the European diet was centered around meat, cheese, wheat, and vegetables. The Japanese diet is centered around rice, vegetables, and fish, with some beef and no traditional cheese.

But BOTH cultures developed and use a wide variety of sauces. Think of shoyu as the Japanese equivalent of ketchup. '-)

[Soop]

This is true!

[bigtuna27]

We have world famous stinky "Natto" for the replacement of cheese. And your favorite tofu. But you got the point too.

[Caroline1]

No natto for me, please. But I do like tofu! Good stuff!

[applehome]

wait, wait... you're comparing shoyu to bechamel and bearnaise? My youngest brother's insistence on putting ketchup all over my mother's incredible gyoza every time we had it was a source of great angst in our family.

I think that there's more to it than just ingredients. What - the Mediterranean has no fish? How similar is Italian to Japanese? What's the difference there?

Japanese have developed a cultural introspection of what goes on the plate and into the mouth that is deeper than most cultures. There is a desire to get food "right" - not just in the sense of a particular recipe or method, but in a cultural sense. Perhaps this is a unique development from the years of isolation - something Europe never had.

These years of isolation were followed by the onslaught of foreign culture - where the application of the inward development of the values and techniques that were created to enhance them, to yoshoku (gaijin food) insured that the best fried battered food is Tempura, from Japan, and not something from Portugal, where it originated.

There are equivalents of 6 years of apprenticeship in a sushiya in the guilds of charcuteriers and bakers in Europe, so the value of quality and passing on tradition may in and of itself be equivalent. But where this was a factor of commerce in Europe, it was more about cultural values in Japan. That's not to say that sushi (and other great cuisine) wasn't mainly developed as the business class grew in stature - it was. But the cultural values were established before them.

To Soop's point, Sushi changes - of course - everything does. In that interview with Jiro that KK linked to in one of our threads, he talks about what changes are going to have to be made even now, as ingredients change in availability. Substitutions become set menus over time. And even form is changed within the bounds of tradition. But foreign countries present entirely new marketplace demands - and a delicious soft taco with carnitas is in danger of becoming hamburger in a crispy shell. Creative Itamae needing customers in LA may invent california rolls - but because this is satisfying American needs, and not Japanese cultural traditions, it's not necessarily going to be accepted as one of the traditional paths that a food might travel on.

[Caroline1]

wait, wait... you're comparing shoyu to bechamel and bearnaise?
....................................................................applehome

Nope. Ketchup! '-)

[bigtuna27]

Very good analization. Since you mention Tempura. I have a quiz. Where is that word came from?

[Humbucker]

Portuguese, right? "Tempero"?