570447 Fri Nov 07 13:00:55 -0800 2008 18 34 Wine 0 4156591 Hello all, I'm visiting from the Boston boards. I'm posting here because I'm trying to track down a somewhat unusual port wine made by a small relatively independent producer called Casal dos Jordoes. They make all organic port wines, and their 10 year tawny port is pretty terrific. It was relatively easy to find someone who sold this port in Portugal. Finding it in the Boston area is a bit tougher. Their web site is in Portuguese only and it isn't clear that there is contact information on an American distributor. I have seen a few on line wine merchants that carry it, one of which is a group called the Organic Wine Company out of San Francisco (listing is at http://www.french-wine-online.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=43 ) So the two questions: Does anyone out there have any experience ordering from these guys before? And failing that, any thought on how to track down a distributor who sells a little closer to home? Thanks in advance. Fri Nov 07 13:00:55 -0800 2008 14650 Dr.Jimbob 1 4156778 Hi-Time Wine Cellars (250 Ogle Street, Costa Mesa, CA 92627 800.331.3005) carries the Casal Dos Jordões "Finest Reserve" Vintage Character Porto -- see http://www.hitimewine.net/istar.asp?a=6&id=376540!2827 ($29.99). So does the "French Wine Online" site -- see http://www.french-wine-online.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=43 ($28.99) -- and the "Organic Wine Co." site -- see http://www.theorganicwinecompany.com/HTMLCatalog/port-brfinest-reservebr-casal-dos-jordoes.htm ($29.99). Granted this is NOT the same as a 10-Year Tawny Porto, which is a legal classification. All three of these are in California. You can find the Casal Dos Jordões Tawny Port (again, this is their "regular" Tawny, and NOT a 10-Year Old Tawny) from Organic Vintners in Colorado -- see http://www.organicvintners.com/buy_wine.cgi?product_ID=OV-PPZ%2003 ($39.95). This, too, is an exceptional HIGH price for a "regular" Tawny. Indeed, it is more expensive than most 10-Year Old Tawny Portos on the market! Casal dos Jordões formerly sold their wines in bulk to Sandeman, but in 1994 begin to convert the vineyard to organic agriculture and to bottle some of the wines themselves. The rest continues to be sold to Sandeman. They have more than 40 hectares of vineyards in the Rio Torto. The predominant red grape varieties consist of Touriga Franca, Tinta Roriz, Tinta Barroca , Touriga Nacional, Tinto Cão and Souzão, with a little Malvasia Fina and Gouveio. They produce Vintage Porto, 10-Year Tawny, Finest Reserve (Vintage Character), Ruby, Tawny and White Porto. According to the producer, the "regular" Tawny is imported by Organic Vintners in Boulder, and the Finest Reserve is imported by Organic Wine Company in San Francisco. Those are the only two bottlings of Porto sold in the US. They do not market a 10-Year Tawny in the US. Cheers, Jason Fri Nov 07 14:08:26 -0800 2008 4156591 28122 zin1953 2 4160959 Thanks for catching the fine print on the bottle; I had missed this was the reserve tawny and not the 10 year tawny! Do you have an experience with French Wine Online, Organic Wine Co. or Hi-Time? Sun Nov 09 21:21:04 -0800 2008 4156778 14650 Dr.Jimbob 3 4161418 Hi-Time is an excellent, highly regarded "brick-and-mortar" retailer, been around forever. I *believe* the other two are related, and my experience has been, shall we say, "limited, but less than wonderful." But -- if you don't mind my asking -- are you most focused on acquiring an "organic" wine, or a Porto from Casal Dos Jordões? If the former, why? If the latter, why? Also, keep in mind that the "Finest Reserve" is a Vintage Character Porto -- a young Ruby Porto made to have the style and weight of a Vintage Porto. The "regular" Tawny (available from Organic Vintners in Colorado) would be closer in overall style to the 10-Year Tawny that you were originally seeking, but not as old. Again, I have to point out that these prices are exceptionally high for their designations. Most producers sell their bottlings of "regular" Tawny Porto in the $10-12 range; Casal Dos Jordões Tawny Porto is offered for $40. Most producers sell their Vintage Character Porto for under $20; the Casal Dos Jordões is almost $30. I would be remiss if I did not add that I have a good deal of experience importing Porto into the US, as well as selling them -- both large houses and small single quintas. I have never tasted anything by Casal Dos Jordões. In and of itself, that is no big deal. I am sure there are many small producers I've not heard of and/or tasted. Contact info: Casal Dos Jordões Arlindo da Costa Pinto e Cruz Casais do Douro 5130 São João de Pesqueira Portugal Tel. (351) 254.731.687 Mon Nov 10 07:28:15 -0800 2008 4160959 28122 zin1953 4 4162915 I tried Casal dos Jordões's 10 year tawny at Vinologia, a wine bar in Porto which specializes in smaller, out of the way producers. As you say, CdJ is a small vineyard whose grapes mostly go to Sandeman, and I understand their quinta's terroir ratings are not fabulous. Whatever the situation may be, I have to say that I was impressed that this was one of the best 10 year tawny ports I've ever tasted (and 10 year tawny is my standard sipping port) -- incredibly deep, complex flavor with a tail which rivals a number of 20 year tawnies that I've had. I'm thoroughly familiar with the 10 year tawnies from Delaforce, Taylor Fladgate, Ramos Pinto, Noval, Dow and Graham's, and I'd say this one leaves them all in the dust (with the possible exception of Ramos Pinto). I was similarly impressed by a 10 year tawny from Säo Leonardo and from São Pedro das Aguías. So, my interest is primarily in getting a memorably great 10 year tawny port to have on hand as my regular sipping port. (Having said that, I usually also shy away from the $35+ price tag that goes on the Ramos Pinto Quinta da Ervamoira 10 year.) I'd be interested in any of the three mentioned above, if you happen to know where I can get my mitts on them. Meantime, I'm e-mailing CdJ to see if they do have some other means of distribution. Mon Nov 10 15:37:46 -0800 2008 4161418 14650 Dr.Jimbob 5 4163391 FWIW, you can get: Niepoort's 10-Year Tawny for $31.98 -- http://www.hitimewine.net/istar.asp?a=6&id=378500!1413 Ramos Pinto Quinta Ervamoira 10-year Tawny for $28.98 -- http://www.winex.com/wine-13897-.aspx Ferriera "Quinta do Porto" 10-Year Tawny Porto for $24.98 -- http://www.hitimewine.net/istar.asp?a=6&id=377236!1937 . . . and, apparently, Trader joe's just bought a $#!+load of Smith-Woodhouse 10-Year Tawny, as they are selling it for, IIRC, $15.99! Mon Nov 10 18:52:00 -0800 2008 4162915 28122 zin1953 6 4184858 Where are you seeing Smith-Woodhouse 10 year Tawny at TJ's? I haven't seen it in the Cambridge MA shop. Tue Nov 18 20:09:37 -0800 2008 4163391 14650 Dr.Jimbob 7 4184878 . . . in the last Fearless Flyer. Tue Nov 18 20:18:20 -0800 2008 4184858 28122 zin1953 8 4187416 Hmm. Have you actually seen it in a store, or is this something that will be coming in the next few weeks? Wed Nov 19 16:58:39 -0800 2008 4184878 14650 Dr.Jimbob 9 4188103 Not every TJ's carries the same selection(s) of wine, and there are MANY versions of the "Fearless Flyer." It's available here in CA; I'm guessing from your posts that it is NOT available in MA. Wed Nov 19 23:08:48 -0800 2008 4187416 28122 zin1953 6 4225508 I've now been to the Trader Joe's in Brookline MA and found a $15.99 port. However, it isn't Smith Woodhouse, but rather Quarles Harris (also part of the Symington organization, and not bad for the money, but not in the league of the other ports listed above). Sat Dec 06 11:54:30 -0800 2008 4163391 14650 Dr.Jimbob 5 4286786 Have to chime in, I just found this thread searching for a US retailer of the 10 year tawny for precisely the same reason! My wife and I tried and bought this at Vinologia and we finally cracked, and finished it, over the last week, with friends -- the only reason we waited so long as shortly after we returned from Portugal we discovered my wife was newly pregnant! (Naturally, we let our 11 month old daughter taste a drop...). I'm sad to learn that the 10 year is not available anywhere in the US; we *loved* it. We'll probably give the regular tawny a try if we can find it locally... :/ Dr. Jimbob, if you find anything you like as much, please let us know! Happy new year! Aaron Wed Dec 31 17:15:48 -0800 2008 4162915 253041 aaron_in_sf 6 4287706 There are DOZENS of truly GREAT bottlings of 10-Year Tawny Porto available . . . just not this one. In addition to the bottlings mentioned above (Niepoort, Ramos Pinto, and Ferriera), check out the 10-Year Tawnies from Noval, Barros, Burmester -- all available in San Francisco. Thu Jan 01 10:41:31 -0800 2009 4286786 28122 zin1953 3 4161443 Hi-Time is an excellent retailer, with a national reputation, and has been around forever. I believe the other two are actually related, and-- well, let's just say my experience has been "less than thrilling." But, I'm curious -- if you don't mind my asking: why organic? Why Casal Dos Jordões? And which of the two is more important to you? Keep in mind that the "Finest Reserve" is a Vintage Character Porto -- a Ruby Porto made in a style to "imitate" a your Vintage Porto (but it will not develop with age in the same way; in fact, it's ready now). But most producers' Vintage Character Porto sells in the $20 range, not $30. As for the Tawny available through the Colorado source, that is even more overpriced. Most Tawny Porto sell in the $10-12 range; this one is nearly $40. You can contact the producer directly at Casal Dos Jordões Arlindo da Costa Pinto e Cruz Casais do Douro 5130 São João de Pesquiera PORTUGAL Tel.: (351).254.731.687 Mon Nov 10 07:35:47 -0800 2008 4160959 28122 zin1953 4 4190808 why organic? For starters, its agriculaturally sustainable. And, A study by the European Pesticides Action Network (PAN) reveals that wines on sale in the EU may contain residues of up to 10 different pesticides potentially harmful to human health. "Grapes are among the most contaminated food products on sale in the EU and receive a higher dose of synthetic pesticides than almost any other crop," argues the environmental NGO in a report analysing pesticide residues in wine, published on March 26, 2008. The study covered 40 bottles of wine ‐ 34 conventional and six organic ones ‐ purchased inside the EU. The 34 bottles of conventional wine together contained 148 pesticide residues. All 34 bottles contained from one to ten pesticides, bringing the average per bottle to more than four. Of the six bottles of organic wine tested, one sample contained a low concentration of a pesticide. Sounds gross to me. Why NOT organic?? Peace. Thu Nov 20 20:45:58 -0800 2008 4161443 242068 paolobonetti 5 4190952 Yes, and I'm sure that the European Chemical Producers could pick 40 bottles of wine that would show the exact opposite, too . . . . Thu Nov 20 22:56:46 -0800 2008 4190808 28122 zin1953 6 4192313 Sure, just ask Monsanto to do a study! In the meantime i'll believe PAN and stick to my natural and organic 20-year old diet. Paolo Fri Nov 21 12:11:50 -0800 2008 4190952 242068 paolobonetti 7 4192773 I see you've missed my point. The POINT is that "40 bottle of wine" hardly constitutes a scientific and reliable survey, and anyone with an agenda -- whether it's PAN, Monsanto, or anyone else (and believe me, there are a LOT of organizations in between the two!) -- can find 40 bottles of wine to prove whatever they want. I have no doubt that vegans can find 40 bottle of wine with too many insect parts per million, too! But there is a world of difference between your implied sugestion -- that wines which are NOT labeled "organic" in fact full of chemicals -- and the reality of the situation. Cheers, Jason Fri Nov 21 15:16:18 -0800 2008 4192313 28122 zin1953 1 4552198 Diamond Organics has some nice organic Ports including the Casal dos Jordões http://www.diamondorganics.com/prod_detail_list/32 Mon Mar 30 15:19:55 -0700 2009 4156591 278689 Typhoon