570123 Thu Nov 06 10:47:39 -0800 2008 22 14 Washington DC & Baltimore Area 0 4153675 I'm pondering making tamales for the first time this Xmas although the prospect is daunting. I've been told the key is good quality, fresh lard. Where do you tamale-makers or die-hard pie crust makers get your lard? I'm in Arlington and I might get drummed out of the neighborhood association and/or the PTA for even considering eating it... but I'm willing to face the consequences. Thu Nov 06 10:47:39 -0800 2008 213693 yvetteski 1 4153806 The best lard I have had in 3 years came off the pork I purchased from Bill Jones.He is the proprietor of http://www.forestfed.com " BABES IN THE WOODS ".His farm is about 90 minutes from you.He also comes to the Clarendon farm market on ????? Wednesday , right at metro.I do not know what "by products" he can help with.I saved every scrap of what I had for additional uses.Did some rendering of my own. Thu Nov 06 11:32:09 -0800 2008 4153675 203919 lcool 2 4153832 Babe in the Woods is also at the Saturday morning Old Town Alexandria market. You could also try Let's Meat on the Avenue in Del Ray. I believe Steve carries suet for proper pastry. Thu Nov 06 11:37:15 -0800 2008 4153806 65673 monavano 3 4154331 Suet - really? can we get a confirmation? nothing like it. Thu Nov 06 14:20:12 -0800 2008 4153832 163722 hill food 4 4154413 Give Steve at LMOTA a call...he's a Brit and he said he would carry it for customers who are used to making pastry with suet. Thu Nov 06 14:51:32 -0800 2008 4154331 65673 monavano 1 4154910 "Gourmet lard"? Naaah ... any grocery with a decent hispanic-food section will have "manteca" (that's Spanish for 'lard'), and if I recall right you can most often find it right on the shelf at room temperature. Many Shoppers will have a good hispanic food section. Thu Nov 06 18:29:28 -0800 2008 4153675 14479 wayne keyser 2 4155135 I've heard that properly rendered lard (not the usual hydrogenated find) is lower in bad cholesterol than margarine. but that's the clue. properly. Thu Nov 06 20:27:50 -0800 2008 4154910 163722 hill food 3 4155466 There is some science to support that "natural" is better safer fat. Fri Nov 07 04:56:45 -0800 2008 4155135 203919 lcool 2 4155440 You are correct about the grocery stores having lard.However to call it good or better is a stretch ,or for mince pies a travesty.The last time I purchesed it in a pinch it "smelled" , over processed ,some what burned and just plain "old".Information has it that this is the normal state of affairs for "shelf" lard. Bill Jones of BABES is also a BRIT,knows what "suet" AKA leaf lard from around the kidneys is . It is not even similar in smell or taste to "shelf" lard. All of the meat we eat is selected on the "hoof".Raised by my family or a source we have researched ,met and gotten to know.The resulting differences include saving ALL fat ,by- products etc, bird and mammal.When fresh these things are nearly odorless when compared to the "smelly" reputation that procedes them. Fri Nov 07 04:35:13 -0800 2008 4154910 203919 lcool 3 4157493 "leaf lard" that was the term I was trying to remember. fat and animal fat in particular should be used carefully of course, but IIRC leaf lard is no worse than butter as far as saturation. god we're all gonna end up getting angioplasty at this rate. Fri Nov 07 21:23:01 -0800 2008 4155440 163722 hill food 3 4157693 I've heard "kidney suet." Is that redundant? Is suet, by definition, the fat surrounding the kidneys, and from no other place on the animal? ("Surrounding" may be taken loosely, I suppose, depending on the butcher) Sat Nov 08 03:38:09 -0800 2008 4155440 10624 MikeR 4 4157723 HILL FOOD and MikeR , Around the kidney of cattle and hogs is "leaf lard" AKA suet.However to refer to the other "fat" as leaf lard is incorrect.Leaf lard is anatomy specific,when you butcher the distinction is clear.There is much wonderful suet elsewhere on cattle and hogs,devine for "lard",a rendered product,but...not what you want for mince meat or plum pudding.You need a dry,snow white product for these.The rendering is done in the "recipe",not a separate step. And no kidney suet is not redundent,surrounding is well defined in the animal. The anatomy in question is quite a "package",as would be the thymus or heart. Your butcher needs to remove the package intact,not make a mess of it. hope this helps,I don't worry much about the health scare industry here at all, seasonal moderation and lucky family genetics are my friend. Sat Nov 08 04:38:34 -0800 2008 4157693 203919 lcool 5 4169127 I always thought that anything labeled lard was a pork product and suet was from either cows or sheep, before the type distinctions of leaf, etc. am I wrong? Wed Nov 12 18:51:40 -0800 2008 4157723 163722 hill food 6 4173354 You are making all lard a rendered product,it's not always so.Therefore Wrong no,however the historic distinctions are the result of "geography" . Until very recently only one "animal" was butchered in house.Pork one place,beef and veal another,sheep another and so on.These practices are largely unchanged in many places.(Italy & France) Habits much like the tomato is a vegetable.NOT,is fruit,sit with our neighbors in Italy no problem.They learned at some point when you eat the ovaries of a plant it's fruit,tomatoes,grapes,cucumbers and melons.It all stuck,instead of a some filing system in the store being the correct answer.So a bit of your question is a modern,?urban difference as the result of so much distance from the ?source to you.When I order from the farmer or killer US,France or Italy I am asked anatomy and species.They don't assume,if I wasn't clear.I went to the pig killer so there would be no confusion about how I wanted the bellies and caul handled.I have cold cured the fat,now its being pressed for "lardo",no rendering for Italian lard.Oh is it wonderful with Vin Santo and fruit.The gift plan for my chef friends this year. Fri Nov 14 09:03:12 -0800 2008 4169127 203919 lcool 7 4173698 interesting. Fri Nov 14 10:44:05 -0800 2008 4173354 163722 hill food 5 4171542 Thank you all for this very interesting discussion. Ecofriendly farms at the Courthouse market on Saturday a.m. sometimes has lard, depending on the butchering schedule. As to it's source within the pig, you would have to ask. I have used it for pie crust with excellent results. Yes, the stuff off the shelf from groceries is pretty awful. The texture is not at all silky as it should be, and it smells rancid. Every day, my grandfather ate 6 eggs, butter, lard in cooked items, and cream so thick that it wouldn't pour and had to be spooned. He died of a stroke--at over 90. Thu Nov 13 14:34:24 -0800 2008 4157723 13233 bacchante 1 4171763 My girlfriend, who is an amazing cook, gets leaf lard from Truck Patch Farms. I know they are at several area farmer's markets. There's a list on their web site here: http://truckpatchfarms.com/markets.html Thu Nov 13 15:59:16 -0800 2008 4153675 11273 JonParker 2 4171947 where else to get leaf lard?? i have been asking around the dupont farmers market with no luck :( but im not hot to go on a wild goose chase, im really looking for a sure thing for my pie baking. there's always duck fat. Thu Nov 13 17:11:18 -0800 2008 4171763 67839 homesmax 3 4172951 Truck Patch almost always has it, but you could call them a day ahead of time to make sure. Fri Nov 14 06:42:51 -0800 2008 4171947 11273 JonParker 4 4173126 Jon, can you describe approximately where at the JFX farmer's market Truck Patch is located? Fri Nov 14 07:42:26 -0800 2008 4172951 11669 Hal Laurent 5 4173647 They are right next to Pea Man. Fri Nov 14 10:31:57 -0800 2008 4173126 11273 JonParker 1 4173727 But the real question for the OP is: are you sure you want to do Tamales? they can be a bitch and a half. we did them one year in PHX for Thanksgiving and started the night before. they turned out great, but as we didn't really know what we were doing, had a few missteps. I'd suggest a small trial run ahead of time to really get the hang of it - they're not terribly complicated, but can be more time consuming than you might anticipate, still definitely worth the effort IMHO. (and I gained great respect for the women selling homemade ones on the streets in some cities) Fri Nov 14 10:51:33 -0800 2008 4153675 163722 hill food 1 4173782 I have used the lard off of the bottom shelf from the local mexican grocery store, and from the regular grocery store. If you aren't going to use the fresh lard described earlier, I'd suggest you buy from the mexican grocery vs the regular grocery. The lard is much fresher, in my opinion, probably because it gets turned over more frequently in the mexican store. We make tamales a couple of times each year. My tips are: make your fillings a day ahead. They can be kind of involved and time consuming, so get them out of the way ahead of time. I usually save the broth from the braised pork for the masa. I always make the dough up, and start soaking the husks, a couple of hours before my helpers arrive. Then all I do is set up my assembly line of dough, filling and cold beer. Four of us can make a hundred or more in about 3 hours. I usually make some sweet tamales too, just maybe 20 out of my 100+ - they freeze really well and make a nice snack. Good luck - making tamales is really fun! Fri Nov 14 11:10:45 -0800 2008 4153675 124908 jeanmarieok