569235 Sun Nov 02 20:44:05 -0800 2008 12 1 San Francisco Bay Area 0 4145356 Hi, I am going to Napa with five girlfriends (staying in Calistoga) and have been considering the following itinerary: Day 1 - grab picnic lunch on the way 2pm Storybook Mountain winery - Calistoga 3:30 pm Frank Family winery - Calistoga Check into house dinner at Jole (Calistoga) or Ad Hoc - would like to try Ad Hoc but driving there to make early reservation may be too tight Day 2 11:30 Schramsberg - Calistoga 4:00 Vincent Arroyo - Calistoga want to fit a winery in between these two Dinner at Ubuntu - how much time does it take to drive from Calistoga to Napa? Day 3 10 am Pride Mountain - Spring Moutain 12:30 Frog's Leap - Rutherford 2:30 Honig - Rutherford 4pm Neyers - St. Helena I think that we have booked too many. Would you pick Honig over Neyers or vice versa? Dinner at either Rutherford Grill or Bistro Jeanty Day 4 Brunch at Ad Hoc Or spa day I would love any feedback on restaurant choice and wineries. I really wanted to visit Chappellet winery as well but we have too much already. Any comments on Chappellet. It could make sense to do that Day 1 on our way in (with Neyers since they are close proximity). I would have to move Storybook and Frank to day 2 (or possibly skip one) I am obsessing over this and I am sure the choices I have are just fine. thanks very much!! Sun Nov 02 20:44:05 -0800 2008 236926 kmoth 1 4145498 Calistoga resident and wine industry geek here...Your winery visits are well chosen, good job selecting them. But where are your lunch plans? You must have a lunch planned if you'll be wine-tasting...or you'll get smashed and be illegal, so please fill in those blanks. And your other dinner plans? Do you have reservations yet? Do you have reservations at the wineries? When you will be here? Where are you staying? I ask because it will help determine driving times. You'll be staying at the very north end of the valley. Driving distances and times are deceptive. It's reallly important you're on time for your winery appointments so make sure you allow extra driving time. Day 1 -- It's too much to go to Ad Hoc the first night, but Jole has been getting good reviews. Your winery choices are good ones for that first day (and otherwise). I also really like Wappo Grill in town. Day 2 -- Don't think you'll want to fit a winery between Schramsberg and Vincent Arroyo because you'll need to eat lunch. Don't taste wine on an empty stomach. Dinner at Ubuntu: It'll take you a full hour to drive from Calistoga to Ubuntu in Napa and park. Believe me on the timing: I'm a local and know the way and it takes me more than 50 minutes if I'm flying and there's no traffic and I'm able to park in my secret spot. It will take you longer. Even longer if you're not staying right in downtown Calistoga. Day 3 -- Make sure you leave for Pride plenty early -- in the car at 9:15. It's quite a drive up the mountain. I'd blow off Neyers because it's a long trek out to Lake Hennessey and the Pritchard Hill area. That's where Chappellet is also, Your time will be better spent that afternoon (IMO) by going to Frog's Leap (wonderful) and then tasting wines grown in land a stone's throw away at Honig. Honig's wines are quite lovely also. Why not plan Ad Hoc for that night since you'll be near Yountville anyway, and you just go straight from Honig to Ad Hoc for an early dinner? You're not going to want to drive back to Calistoga, and then back down to Yountville. That's also a good night to go to Bistro Jeanty or Ruth Grill (Ruth Grill is right down the road, but the wait for a table your size can be lengthy and there are no reservations). Day 4 -- why not go to Neyers and Chappellet on this day? So, a coupla more questions...you're planning on wall-to-wall winetasting here. Are all your friends on board with this? Are you not interested in looking around the charming little towns here or do you only want to spend time at wineries? What about doing something other than winetasting? (That's OK if you don't -- I go on winetasting trips all the time.) There is some phenomenal shopping in St. Helena, beautiful stuff that's generally very expensive but increasingly on sale! A suggestion: Make sure your group of women has very good manners. Just so you know, groups of women visitors to wineries in both Sonoma and Napa — unless they’re older women — are not the most welcomed. Wineries have good reason for feeling this way: Groups of women generally don't listen to the winery staff talk (because they're talking amongst themselves), and they don’t want to learn — they just want to drink. Women visitors can get very loud, annoying other customers and winery employees. Women in groups, especially Bachelorette Parties, get drunk -- they're drinking and not TASTING (their lower body weight helps to create this). Gee, even I'd get drunk if I visited and drank wines like most women's groups -- and I'm a wine pro. Remember to spit. Getting drunk puts the women in an illegal situation -- the winery cannot serve you -- and makes the winery liable because it has already served the group. So have lots of water and other drinks in the car, and make sure you PLAN lunch. Finally, groups of women don't buy much wine, after they've already put out the winery. I'm not saying at all that your group of women will have bad manners, but many do, so please be very mindful of etiquette. BTW, I've committed all the sins I've listed above! Mon Nov 03 00:02:48 -0800 2008 4145356 18222 maria lorraine 2 4145854 Thank you so much for the feedback. I do have reservations at the restaurants. We are 40 so we will not get too roudy but thank you for the etiquette tips. I thought on Sunday we could look at some shops in lieu of wine tasting. Are the shops open Sunday? Mon Nov 03 07:10:09 -0800 2008 4145498 236926 kmoth 3 4145885 Oh, I also should mention that we plan on taking picnic lunches which should leave us more time for wine tasting. I agree I think 3 wineries max per day. Is Neyers and Chappellet worth visiting?? Mon Nov 03 07:18:16 -0800 2008 4145854 236926 kmoth 4 4145913 OK, nice to know your group will be well-behaved. Are you all wine-tasters? Day 1 -- Are you arriving that day? Visiting two wineries after traveling that may be way too much depending upon the length of your journey. You could just arrive in the valley, get a spa treatment, check into your house and then head to dinner. If you have the energy, you could visit both Storybook (near the Sonoma border) and Chateau Montelena, which are nearby one another. Re: Day 2: Were it me, I'd move Frank Family between Schramsberg and Arroyo because FF is so close to Schramsberg and can be a quickie. FF is visually lackluster and you'll just want to taste, not tour. Where will you picnic? Re: Neyers and Chappellett -- If you can let me know your rationale for choosing the wineries you have, then I can provide recs. It IS a long drive out to both these wineries and both wineries do make excellent wine. Personally, I'd choose these two spots rather than Dr. Sep's Storybook and FF. But I would also choose to visit other great Spring Mountain District wineres that you'll be so near when at Pride. Schramsberg is excellent all around. So let me know your interests and rationale. Yes, stores are open on Sunday. Mon Nov 03 07:30:01 -0800 2008 4145885 18222 maria lorraine 5 4146398 Re Neyers and Chappellet - heard good things about them on internet reviews. Wanted to go to a winery with a good cabernet (chappelet). We could do those on day 1 since we will be driving that way from San Fran. We get in that day at 9:30am which is why I made dinner reservation so early. Storybook and Frank family are free (well not sure about storybook) whereas Neyers and Chapplete are not. I would like to have good tasting wine. I thought we could picnic at Storybook. Not sure where to picnic on day 2. Could go back to our house. I wanted to go to Smith Madrone but I booked Pride and Frog's Leap far in advance and I doube I could change Frog's Leap now. Any suggestions for dinner to replace Ubuntu on Friday night. It is hard to get a reservation for six now.' thanks Maria. You have been much help!! Any recommendations for spa treatments? Mon Nov 03 10:26:50 -0800 2008 4145913 236926 kmoth 6 4146857 As Maria mentioned, there are lots of great wineries up on Spring Mountain if you're already headed to Pride. You could spend the entire day drinking only great Cabernet and not make it to all of them, and you wouldn't have to drive more than 5 minutes between each winery up on Spring Mountain. How long is your appointment at Pride? It looks like you have a serious time crunch that day. I don't know what time you're headed back on Sunday, but I just had dinner last night at Ubuntu, and I highly recommend going for an early dinner on Sunday on your way out of the valley. The restaurant was less than half full, but the kitchen was still fully staffed and the food delicious. Ubuntu serves lunch too, and most if not all of the dinner items are available for lunch. They might not even stop serving between dinner and lunch, so you could probably do a very late lunch. Mon Nov 03 13:02:52 -0800 2008 4146398 17221 SteveG 6 4146933 <<Wanted to go to a winery with a good cabernet (chappelet). >> You're kidding, right?? You're going to be at several wineries with Cabernet as good if not far better than Chappellet's. This is Cabernet country! Even Schramsberg makes an outstanding (!) Cabernet. I definitely wouldn't make the trek to Neyers/Chappellet if the reason is "good Cab." Wait till you taste the Cabernet from Pride, the others on Spring Mountain, Schramsberg, Honig, etc. Though I admire the Smith brothers of Smith-Madrone (and judge with them at competitions), I wouldn't choose to visit that winery over other Spring Mountain District wineries. Get going on your dinner reservations. Why would you replace Ubuntu? It's an hour drive but it's like nothing else. Whenever you stay/live in Calistoga as I do, it's always at least a 45-minute drive into Napa. It's just the lay of the land. Just plan ahead. I'd pursue Terra and Martini House in St. Helena, just 10 minutes from Calistoga. Terra has the best food in the valley IMO, and I love Martini House also. Those two restos are both excellent AND convenient. You must pre-arrange to have your picnic at a winery. Most wineries do not offer that option and nearly always you must call ahead. Dr. Seps (who can be quite strict) at Storybook may not allow it -- have you checked? Is there some reason you're drawn to his particular kind of Zins? They're dark, brambly, often take years and years to resolve and become drinkable. Is this what you want? Those wines do have their appeal, though they are not at all typical Zinfandel. Just pay the money for the tastings. It's worth it. You're going to be poured some valuable reserve wines. Nature of the beast. You're going to be busy arranging and re-arranging. Sorry I can't recommend spas on Chowhound because it's non-food, but please do give me the general area or road of your house where you'll be staying so I can help you more in terms of driving times. Calistoga can be fairly spread out with the two mountain ranges, and the houses on some of the roads up into the hills can take take forever to get to. When will you be visiting Napa Valley? Mon Nov 03 13:23:13 -0800 2008 4146398 18222 maria lorraine 2 4146277 Can't tell you about driving distances, but as far as parking at Ubuntu, in addition to the lot across the street (which might be full at prime time), there is a lot behind the restaurant and I think another lot across the street from that. Ubuntu can be entered from the front or rear of the building. Mon Nov 03 09:44:21 -0800 2008 4145498 10264 rworange 3 4146966 About 8 restaurants, the Opera House, a shopping mall, and a number of Main Street businesses use those parking lots, and I'm sure on Friday night they will be jammed, as they are even on weeknights. I'm in that neck of the woods a lot -- parking took twenty minutes last week. Kmoth, word to the wise... Mon Nov 03 13:34:40 -0800 2008 4146277 18222 maria lorraine 4 4146986 Doesn't Ubuntu have valet parking. I don't like valet parking in general, but I thought I saw some sort of sign once ... not to factor out parking difficulty, just a thought. Mon Nov 03 13:41:07 -0800 2008 4146966 10264 rworange 5 4147043 I don't know, honestly. Mon Nov 03 13:58:01 -0800 2008 4146986 18222 maria lorraine 6 4147706 Thanks everyone, especially Maria for your input!! What do you think of this revised itinerary: Thurs 12:30 Neyer 2:00 Chappellet 6pm Jole Fri 11:30 Schramsberg 2:30 Vincent Arroyo Storybook or Frank Family - any suggestions or we may just go shopping in St. Helena 7:30 Ubuntu Sat 10 am Pride Mtn 12:30 Frog's Leap 2:30 Honig Rutherford Grill or Bistro Jeanty (or Terra or Martini House if I can get in) Sunday relax, spa 12 noon Ad hoc brunch Leave Napa Mon Nov 03 18:17:45 -0800 2008 4147043 236926 kmoth