568804 Fri Oct 31 15:36:46 -0700 2008 14 7 Chicago Area 0 4141650 Planning to be in Chicago for a few days around NYE and unfortunately Alinea is closed for holiday break. To those who have been to both, does Moto compare or should I simply try some of the other Chicago destinations like Spiaggia, Trotter's, Tru, and Les Nomades instead and head back for Alinea at a later date to experience the best in Molecular gastronomy? Additionally, is L2O worth the hype? The menu looks superb, but I'm hesitant to try such a new place for seafood when Trotter's and Everest have fish dishes that seem equally amazing and more tried/tested/true service. Thanks for your time/opinions. Additionally, what options are there for unique breakfasts in Chicago? Ideally off-the-wall pancakes and french toast akin to Norma's in NYC or Griddle Cafe in LA. Fri Oct 31 15:36:46 -0700 2008 160718 uhockey 1 4141769 We have numerous options for unique breakfasts and brunches in Chicago. Many are described in the discussion at www.chowhound.com/topics/364403 which has been updated regularly. FWIW, I've never heard of Norma's or Griddle Cafe, but people in New York City and Louisiana have probably never heard of Walker Brothers, Bongo Room, or M. Henry - LOL! Fri Oct 31 16:57:24 -0700 2008 4141650 55363 nsxtasy 2 4142277 Fantastic.....M. Henry's brunch sounds superb. Regarding Norma's, probably the most decadent "high end" breakfast in NYC. As for Griddle Cafe......it is legendary and a must stop if you're in LA. The pancakes make the portions at Cheesecake factory look small and the unique variety is pretty much unmatched. Sat Nov 01 05:34:36 -0700 2008 4141769 160718 uhockey 3 4142620 You should be aware of a couple of things about M. Henry. One is that it is located in a neighborhood called Andersonville, about seven miles north of downtown Chicago. It's easily accessible by car or by public transit (the #22 Clark St bus will take a long time from downtown Chicago, but goes right past the restaurant). The other is that it gets very busy on Sundays unless you go early, less so during the week (I'm not sure about Saturdays). I'm sure you checked out the menu on their website at www.mhenry.net I really like the place, and it's one of my favorites; those are just things to be aware of. I also really love Bongo Room, for creative pancakes, often served with creative sauces. What I especially like is the ability to get partial portions; instead of a full portion of three pancakes, you can order one or two at a reduced price. I do this so that I can try two or three dishes on a single visit. Their blueberry pancakes with almond panna cotta sauce was one of the best I've had anywhere. They have two locations, in Wicker Park and the South Loop. Bongo Room, too, gets busy on Sundays with long waits to be seated. They no longer have a website but you can see an abbreviated sample of their menu at http://chicago.menupages.com Finally, I can't say enough about Walker Brothers, if your visit takes you to the suburbs north of Chicago, where they have six locations. They are a franchisee of the Original Pancake House, but they have taken the concept far beyond what you'll see at their other locations. The decor includes fancy wood and stained glass (I think they have a few real Tiffany lamps), and the quality of the food is exceptional. Their apple pancake is phenomenal (maybe the best single dish of any restaurant - which is obviously high praise indeed) and their German pancake is also wonderful. Even their more conventional omelets and pancake dishes are superb. They get busy on Sundays but don't be discouraged by lines out the door, as most locations have limited waiting space and the line often moves pretty quickly. www.walkerbrosoph.com Sat Nov 01 10:14:50 -0700 2008 4142277 55363 nsxtasy 4 4142831 I'll be there the 30th, 31st, 1st (Tue/Wed/Thu). You seem to be Chicago's board guru nsxtasy......assuming I want two great dinner meals, one on the 30th and one on NYE and I'm deciding between Tru, Trotter, Les Nomades, L2O, Spiaggia, and Moto, what would you say is the best "Experience." The food "type" isn't terribly important, but the best 'overall' experience. Food quality, service, setting, bang-for-buck, etc. FWIW, the best Food I've ever had was at Alex in Vegas, but the best experiences overall were Gramercy Tavern and Babbo. Yes, I realize exactly how subjective this question is, and I apologize :-) Sat Nov 01 12:40:25 -0700 2008 4142620 160718 uhockey 5 4143050 Yes, I understand the subjectivity involved. ;) I also understand the difference between food and experience. There's another dimension involved too: what I consider the difference between creativity and taste. For example, I've been to some of the top restaurants in the country and have had elaborate, creative meals, with unusual tastes and combinations of ingredients; usually, most of it works very well. Yet I've had other meals with somewhat less creativity to the food, but in which I thought every course was sheer ecstasy, tastes that make you want to scream at the top of your lungs, "WOW! That's DELICIOUS!" It's hard to say that one is "better" than the other. Getting back to your question: > I'm deciding between Tru, Trotter, Les Nomades, L2O, Spiaggia, and Moto I would suggest adding Everest for consideration. I also think Avenues belongs in this mix; however, I ate there earlier this year when Chef Bowles was in charge, and have not been back since the transition to Chef Duffy. I've heard excellent reports, but I really can't provide knowledgeable input, since I think a new chef and a new menu change a place enough that I would need a return visit before commenting. Let's rule out certain restaurants one by one. I have not yet been to L2O, although I have heard excellent reports, but for this reason I cannot comment on it, either. I don't think Moto is quite at the same level as the others; it certainly offers the novelty of the foods in a place featuring "molecular gastronomy", but once you get past that aspect, I don't consider it quite the high-end experience you find at the others. I've had dinner at Les Nomades and it just didn't overwhelm me; nice place, it wasn't bad, but it didn't wow. Spiaggia is excellent but because it is such a specific type of food (Italian) it's just different from the others; I'm not knocking it, but it's like trying to claim that pizza is better than hamburgers or vice versa - just too different to compare. That leaves TRU, Charlie Trotter's, and Everest. And these are three of Chicago's absolutely finest restaurants. The chefs are doing wonderful things; even after 20+ years, Trotter and Jean Joho (Everest) continue to be at the top of their game. You can look at their menus and quickly realize that they are nothing like what you would have found there 20, 10, or even 5 years ago. (Everest, for example, has evolved from what was once a strictly French-Alsatian menu, to a more global, contemporary cuisine.) TRU hasn't been around that long, although Rick Tramonto's cuisine too has evolved since his days at Trio; one of the interesting aspects of TRU is that, as I understand it, his day-to-day involvement has waned as he has taken on other projects, yet the restaurant continues to maintain the same high level of quality, creativity and consistency. So bottom line, you can go to any of these three and have some of the best food and best experiences you can find in town. However, I am not dodging the question. If I have to choose only one of these, it would be Everest, for three reasons. First is the view, overlooking the city. Yes, it's somewhat corny, and mostly irrelevant when you're looking for terrific food. But it adds to the experience, and the whole idea that you can have one of the finest meals in town AND do it with a view that is spectacular too is a differentiator. (I should add that, if you're considering one of our "casual fine dining" restaurants while you're here, North Pond is a great choice for the same reason.) Second is the service. Yes, all of these top places have great service; yet I've observed some subtleties at Everest that make it the finest service I've ever experienced, anywhere. And third is that I've had meals at Everest where everything just clicked, making them among the most memorable meals of my life. Sometimes you go to a fine restaurant and the food is excellent and the service is excellent, yet a week later you've mostly forgotten about it; other times you do so and everything is just so perfect and spectacular that you know you'll never forget it (and rarely equal it). I've had that happen at Everest, rather than the other two. I don't know why - maybe it has to do with the company or the circumstances, or maybe it's just random - but that's my experience. Again, though, these three are all terrific, and you shouldn't feel bad about choosing any of them. I'm sure the same is true about Avenues (under Duffy) and L2O, and I look forward to trying them soon. If I were here for three days, I'm not sure that I would do two of our "top tables" for dinner. I would probably be more likely to go to one of our "top tables", do another meal at one of our "casual fine dining" restaurants, and still another at an ethnic restaurant. (To look at this in New York City terms, if you are there for three days and have one dinner at Per Se, would you have two more dinners at other top tables, like Jean-Georges and Le Bernardin, or diversify with a more casual but still exceptional place, like Craft, and then something ethnic too?) Among our casual fine dining restaurants, I would probably choose North Pond first, partly for the setting in the park (as previously mentioned), and partly for the excellent cuisine of James Beard-nominated Chef Bruce Sherman. Aigre Doux is exceptional as well. One sixtyblue *was* my favorite in the city, but they changed chefs recently, so I need to try it under new Chef Michael McDonald before recommending it. (Chef Martial Noguier, who was previously at one sixtyblue, is now at Café Des Architectes, which is now receiving some high praise - again, on my "must try" list.) As yet another option, you could eat somewhere else, and then go to TRU at the end of your dinner just for their dessert tasting (five desserts). HTH Sat Nov 01 14:59:11 -0700 2008 4142831 55363 nsxtasy 6 4147243 What is the current price for the tasting and prix fixe at Everest? Mon Nov 03 15:07:52 -0800 2008 4143050 160718 uhockey 7 4147660 I'm not sure; you'd have to call and ask. If you're looking for a bargain, though, I'm pretty sure their pre-theater special menu (at 5:00/5:30) is still 3 courses for $50. Mon Nov 03 17:58:33 -0800 2008 4147243 55363 nsxtasy 8 4148216 Cool. Think I may have found a friend who lives outside Chicago who may want to meet up for dinner on the 30th, so I guess I'll call and inquire. Just saw you post on one of the Toledo threads as well....as you may/may not know, Diva closed. :( Tue Nov 04 02:53:36 -0800 2008 4147660 160718 uhockey 5 4143095 Having seen where you dined in Vegas and having read your reviews, I hope I have some idea of what you're looking for and what you might like. And let me say thanks for your terrific Vegas write-up. So Alinea is closed . . . too bad but don't let that stop you. Moto is as extreme as it comes when it comes to molecular gastronomy. I don't like the food as much as Alinea's, but it is nonetheless excellent, just more whimsical and at times a little style over taste, but still excellent. Service is very nice, and the focus on the food is there, but without question I much prefer Alinea. But don't forget Homaru Cantu (Moto's chef) is trained at Trotter's so there is a classic chef's background involved. There's also Schwa. Michael Carlson worked under Grant Achatz (Alinea) when Achatz worked at Trio. The food is amazing . . . less molecular gastronomy than Alinea or Moto. But note that it's byo and very casual for fine dining. Schwa is more for someone all about the food who really doesn't care about the minimal and casual level of service. But the food is great. But if you want to sample molecular gastronomy, Avenues (under new chef Curtis Duffy, and Alinea veteran) might be your best bet (see more below). From your list, I would choose Tru, Spiaggia and Trotter's in that order, but it also depends upon the food you're looking for. If you've eaten at Bar Charlie, you probably at least have an idea about Charlie Trotter's food . . . far less butter/cream than you'll find at Tru/Spiaggia. CT focuses more on natural flavors of food and the juices. Tru/Spiaggia - I prefer the locations here. They're both in the heart of downtown and the atmosphere will be more celebratory with all of the Michigan Avenue lights. CT's is in Lincoln Park . . . very nice, but the holiday lights on Michigan Avenue would draw me to Tru/Spiaggia (as would the food). I would choose any of these over Les Nomades. I expect the service and overall experience will be similar at all places, except that I know some do not appreciate the typically more formal service experience at Trotters. L.20 - I love this place, although there have been a few naysayers. I don't get it. Two phenomenal meals here and I think it's right up there with Alinea. They just don't miss a beat and everything for me, from the bread to the service to the seafood to the kitchen tour, was stellar. You will not find better, more creative seafood dishes than here. Here's a link to some comments and pictures: http://lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=17702 I think Trotter's and Everest are excellent, but I would take L.20 any day of the week over either of those two. There are two places you do not mention which I also think would be great choices: One is NoMi, located in the Park Hyatt. The food there is outstanding and better than ever and Chef Christophe David unfortunately flies under the radar when it comes to culinary perfection. If there is foie gras on the menu, get it. I will never get his foie gras creme brulee out of my head. Also, the views of the city and Michigan Avenue are great from NoMi, located on the seventh floor of the Park Hyatt. Here's a link to the website: http://www.nomirestaurant.com/gallery/nomi/home.html?icamp=nomirestaurantredirect Also, there's Avenues at the Peninsula. I have not yet dined there under new chef Curtis Duffy (although I soon will), but he's a veteran of Alinea and he's getting rave reviews. Apparently, his Alinea experience is quite evident throughout the meal. If you cannot dine at Alinea, and you view Moto as potentially a bit much, Avenues would be a great choice. If I were going to have three meals from these choices, I'd probably choose Avenues, L.20 and NoMi. That would give you the opportunity to experience great food and molecular gastronomy at Avenues, outstanding and creative seafood at L.20, and a bit more classical (yet still contemporary) French cuisine at NoMi. Tru, Spiaggia and Moto would also be under consideration. And if I had to choose just 2 from the first three (as it sounds like you might do), I'd probably do Avenues for sure, and then decide between seafood (L.20) and French (NoMi). What are you going to do for your last night? Schwa might be a way to spend a few less bucks but get an amazing food experience. Stop off and pick up a bottle or two of wine (they're strictly byo). A few other great spots below the top $$$ spots in town include Blackbird, North Pond (beautiful setting in the heart of Lincoln Park) and Naha. Any other questions in this regard? I'll try to help. As for breakfasts, I have been to Norma's a couple of times and liked it very much. Chicago has some very creative breakfast places, albeit more casual (as is typically the case with Chicago). M. Henry is a great choice, except it's far from downtown. Orange is also very good, but again far from downtown. Closer is Bongo Room and it might be my favorite. Note that when you go to Bongo Room and you cannot decide what to order, as nsxtasy mentioned, you can order 1/2 or 1/3 portions so you can mix and match. This is a great thing to do since some of their sweet offerings can be a little too sweet in my opinion. I also love Uncommon Ground, but like Orange, it's near Wrigley Field . . . about 20 minutes by El from Chicago/State St. And if you just want some pastries, a coffee, or a quick bite, try upscale grocer Fox & Obel (a five to ten minute walk from Michigan and Ohio). Sat Nov 01 15:22:40 -0700 2008 4142831 12590 BRB 6 4143136 You know, I *almost* mentioned NoMI in my previous post, and I'm glad Brad brought it up. I agree that it "flies under the radar"; it definitely belongs in this group, and I consider it the most under-appreciated of our finest restaurants. Chef David is doing wonderful things there! Like Everest, the view is an added plus, although it's a bit different; Everest is a view of the entire city spread out below (it's on the 40th Floor of the Midwest Stock Exchange building), whereas NoMI is on the second floor of the Park Hyatt and one side of the dining room is just a huge picture window, looking out on the Water Tower and Michigan Avenue. Sat Nov 01 15:40:14 -0700 2008 4143095 55363 nsxtasy 7 4143470 Wow.......thanks to you both! NoMI doesn't work as it is closed from Dec 6th until June for renovation (according to opentable) though the menu is spectacular. Looks like I have some menu browsing to do! Sat Nov 01 19:51:49 -0700 2008 4143136 160718 uhockey 1 4142664 uhockey, we've crossed paths on the SW [Vegas] board, and I'm currently in Chicago for a long weekend (see thread entitled LA Hound ...). I'll have a full report in the next week or so. Looking forward to Vegas in a couple weeks too! Sat Nov 01 10:43:40 -0700 2008 4141650 198245 a213b 1 4156028 Hey Uhockey- It's good to see a familiar face on the Chicago Board! I Just went to Chicago this Summer. Did Tru, Moto and L2O on the same trip! Quite a memorable experience. http://www.yelp.com/user_details?userid=e0lV0WyRCYbYs9k6chh8YA http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/544905 http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/564204 All of them were excellent. TRU and L2O were more along the lines of classic fine dining, While MOTO was like eating in a mad scientists lab. I thoroughly enjoyed it, but it was completely different than anything I have experienced before. I think it is a place any "Foodie" should try and having read many of your posts, I think you would love it. It wasn't the best food I have ever had, but it definitely was the most thought provoking dining experience of my life. If that makes any sense. Have a great time and let me know what you pick. Fri Nov 07 09:23:51 -0800 2008 4141650 104791 foodgimp 2 4157739 Good stuff sir. I friend'd you on yelp by the way. I think I'm going to go with Tru on 12/30 and either L2O or Everest on NYE. Leaning toward L2O after ulterior epicure's reviw. Sat Nov 08 05:10:49 -0800 2008 4156028 160718 uhockey