568763 Fri Oct 31 13:00:31 -0700 2008 44 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 4141291 I was at a Mexican restaurant here in Denver recently that prepared ceviche de pescado in a way I've never seen. I'm used to its being pretty coarsely chopped; this was very finely chopped—in fact the fish itself was basically flaked and mixed with what my SO likened to pico de gallo, only it also contained shredded carrot, which I've definitely never seen. Is this a regional variation anyone's familiar with? Fri Oct 31 13:00:31 -0700 2008 11106 tatamagouche 1 4141332 Hey tata - was it ahumado (smoked fish ceviche)? That's often finely shredded. Fri Oct 31 13:13:22 -0700 2008 4141291 15217 gini 2 4141352 Hmm (hey gini)....no, it was regular marinated whitefish. But nonetheless that means shredding's not unheard of... Fri Oct 31 13:21:03 -0700 2008 4141332 11106 tatamagouche 1 4142213 It's not unusual to see finely chopped fish plus pico de gallo as a Mexican version of ceviche, but the carrot throws me. I sometimes see shredded carrot in salsa - I'm thinking of Green Mountain and Hot Mama's brands - and I can't stand it. Is your Mexican restaurant operated by New England hippie transplants? Sat Nov 01 04:13:03 -0700 2008 4141291 102066 almansa 1 4142227 From what I've seen here in central Michoacán, here ceviche is finely chopped. (I don't find it appealing. It reminds me of the Herring Salad I disliked as a kid.) I haven't observed the carrot shreds, mainly because I don't order ceviche and haven't had a close look. The carrot could be a cheap "extender". When I want ceviche as _I_ like it, I order tiritas de pescado; long strips of lime-marinated fish. Elsewhere, ceviche styles will vary. I've yet to try the Peruvian styles, but look forward to them. Sat Nov 01 04:39:23 -0700 2008 4141291 49726 Anonimo 1 4142481 In Mexico some even put the fish in a grinder before marinading so the fish is pretty ground up. It is also common to marinade the fish longer than we might see here so the fish is pretty cooked through. Of course there are plenty of regional and individual variations to go around. How did it taste? Sat Nov 01 08:28:57 -0700 2008 4141291 89493 scubadoo97 2 4142613 It was actually good! Heavy on the lime juice, cilantro & onion, but didn't overpower the fish, because though it was in tiny pieces it was also plentiful. But so far, no one else has heard of carrot either. Interesting. Almansa: No, I don't think they're New Eng. transplants, not here in the Southwest. :) And thank goodness! Ten years in Boston was ten years with nary a decent Mexican meal. Sat Nov 01 10:08:19 -0700 2008 4142481 11106 tatamagouche 3 4142666 What would be your estimate of fish content as a percentage of the whole dish? Can you share the restaurant name? Sat Nov 01 10:44:17 -0700 2008 4142613 57170 Veggo 4 4142710 Hey Veggo...it's El Tejado; and I thought the ratio of fish to veggies was good given the unfamiliar style. In fact here's a pic (also incl. in my blogpost on the whole meal for Denverites, address on profie). Sat Nov 01 11:12:21 -0700 2008 4142666 11106 tatamagouche 5 4142747 T, great pic. Looks like a high ratio of pico de gallo to fish, but a fair portion. I know the resto but not the family. You have transitioned well from Boston to Denver. I'll be back in Mexico in 11 days. I crave octopus, conch, and boquinette! Sat Nov 01 11:39:56 -0700 2008 4142710 57170 Veggo 6 4142766 OT, but one thing I desperately miss about Boston—the fact that you could buy octopus and squid in your average supermarket. Not so in Denver; even WF carries them only occasionally. Sigh. Strangely, looks were deceiving—I thought so too, but actually eating it, I didn't feel cheated on the pescado. Sat Nov 01 11:50:40 -0700 2008 4142747 11106 tatamagouche 7 4142972 When Chips Berry, the miracle worker, and the manager of the Denver Water Board, almost killed in a car wreck (and my friend) , can stock the Cherry Creek reservoir with octopus and squid, I will move back...:) Water is important. Very. Sat Nov 01 14:12:54 -0700 2008 4142766 57170 Veggo 8 4144417 That would be great, if I could catch my own! Sun Nov 02 11:28:04 -0800 2008 4142972 11106 tatamagouche 1 4142671 It sounds like it was one of the styles common in parts of Jalisco... ground fish & shredded carrots. I would ask where they are from. In fact, one of my favorite Ceviches in L.A. - El Oasis in Montebello... does a very brisk business with such style of Ceviche. The complete opposite of the Guerrero & Oaxaca 'tirita' style of Ceviches that are more like quick marinaded Sashimi than this Jalisco style. Sat Nov 01 10:46:58 -0700 2008 4141291 42572 Eat_Nopal 2 4142726 Interesting...what are some other Jaliscan specialties that might appear on the menu that would serve as giveaways that that's where the owners (or their families) are from? Sat Nov 01 11:22:52 -0700 2008 4142671 11106 tatamagouche 3 4142822 Caldo Miche & Pescado Ranchero are two prolific dishes in Jalisco's interiori Sat Nov 01 12:34:24 -0700 2008 4142726 42572 Eat_Nopal 4 4142850 Well, not exactly. Nothing listed as Caldo Miche per se, though there are a few fish/shellfish soups. And no fish ranchero, but there is shrimp ranchero... Sat Nov 01 12:50:32 -0700 2008 4142822 11106 tatamagouche 5 4143293 Ask them about Caldo Miche... it might be an off menu dish. Mexican restaurants are notorious for having pedestrian, unremarkable menus... combined with Off Menu specials reserved for those in the know. Sat Nov 01 17:27:30 -0700 2008 4142850 42572 Eat_Nopal 6 4144413 True, but luckily here in Denver there are plenty of places that don't dumb it down. Still, that's a good idea when I end up somewhere that does... Sun Nov 02 11:25:30 -0800 2008 4143293 11106 tatamagouche 7 4144645 Even Mexican restaurants that serve the immigrant population & aren't dumbing it down, really are dumbing it down in the sense that they present a very homegenized, limited, repetitive "Mexican" menu and don't do a good job of serving / promoting what they would actually be good at.... their regional specialties & family recipes. Sun Nov 02 13:51:27 -0800 2008 4144413 42572 Eat_Nopal 8 4144976 Yeah, I hear ya. Although I love this one place that calls itself a Mexico City-style place and serves huaraches and carboncitos, which I'd never seen before...but then, those items could be much more widespread than I'm aware! You're one of the hounds whose Mexican expertise I know I can count on for such things. BTW, w/r/t to your 100 Mexican Dishes post, I was indeed inspired to purchase my own copy of Man Eating Bugs. The dishes (with recipes!) it includes from Mexico are: grasshopper tacos, stinkbug pate, and mealworm spaghetti. Sun Nov 02 16:47:05 -0800 2008 4144645 11106 tatamagouche 1 4142794 A former fishing buddy was from Mexico, he included shredded carrots in his ceviche, the flesh was also shredded or flaked, it was not cubed and included chopped onion, tomato and cilantro. I will be in the area where he lives/used to live next weekend, I will ask where in Mexico he was from. Sat Nov 01 12:15:04 -0700 2008 4141291 13661 Alan408 2 4142851 Thanks! Sat Nov 01 12:51:02 -0700 2008 4142794 11106 tatamagouche 1 4144467 This style of ceviche is from Colima, where the shredded carrot is used in their preparation.Colima is a state on the Pacific coast, flanked by Jalisco to the north and Michoacan to the south. Sun Nov 02 12:04:56 -0800 2008 4141291 128722 streetgourmetla 1 4144499 BTW, Comala,Colima is famous for its white houses with "tile roofs"(tejados) and there are other many Colimense restaurants called El Tejado, including one in Colima,Colima and another right here in LA. Sun Nov 02 12:26:21 -0800 2008 4141291 128722 streetgourmetla 2 4144980 Aha! That sounds like a bingo. Sun Nov 02 16:48:22 -0800 2008 4144499 11106 tatamagouche 2 4317708 I just returned from Mexico where I tried the Colima style ceviche - carrots and all. Absolutely delicious. Where is this Colimense restaurant in LA? Would love to try it out. Sun Jan 11 22:21:40 -0800 2009 4144499 256372 RuthBrasileira 3 4319876 Here it is. http://streetgourmetla.blogspot.com/2008/09/el-tejadomariscos-from-lime-capital-of.html Mon Jan 12 15:14:16 -0800 2009 4317708 128722 streetgourmetla 1 4321019 I've had that or something similar. I was offered it by a Mexican friend, and she served it with chips, using a spoon to pile the stuff on. Tiny cut up, almost shredded like and at first I was taken back, not recognizing it as ceviche as I know it. Anyway, I'm a willing participant usually. It was absolutely delicious, and I stuffed my face all night long with it! Delicious! Mon Jan 12 23:14:50 -0800 2009 4141291 50431 chef chicklet 1 4868424 I am from Pihuamo, Jalisco (1 hour from Guadalajara and 1hr from Colima, Colima. In Pihuamo and in Colima the ceviche is made with finely chopped carrot and all the other usual ingredients (fish, limon (--lime in U.S), cilantro, cebollita, chile picado, etc..). My mother did in fact grind the fish in a molino prior to "cooking it in the lime." I grew up eating homemade and also from street vendors on hot sunny afternoons at the corner as they called out "Se vende, ceviche." So, it is not odd for this region of the country to use carrot. I also don't see it as a way to extend the fish. It adds a unique flavor and we use carrot in a lot of different dishes (esp. in the picadillo for all the yummy enchiladas!!) This past year I visited Manzanillo and I tasted a Colimense ceviche which had the same ingredients PERO (BUT), the fish was in bigger chunks. the seafood included were octopus, scallops, shrimp and a white fish, which I can't recall. It was SUPERB!! We ate on the beach surrounded by many other families eating similar beach picnic food during vacation in Semana Santa (holy week) -Buen provecho!! Fri Jul 17 15:39:20 -0700 2009 4141291 1094546 lilyflor 2 4870159 That sounds wonderful... As does adding a bit of ginger per alkapal, actually. Sat Jul 18 11:42:42 -0700 2009 4868424 11106 tatamagouche 2 4874212 That makes perfect sense that this style would be found in very nearby Jalisco, and that it would be prepared differently in Colima. Manzanillo is great.Conoce a Tecoman? Vale la pena. Mon Jul 20 10:38:05 -0700 2009 4868424 128722 streetgourmetla 1 4869440 has anyone heard of a bit of fresh *ginger* in ceviche? is that a regional variation? which region? Sat Jul 18 04:30:41 -0700 2009 4141291 105717 alkapal 2 4870673 I'm just guessing, but perhaps a Peruvian variation? There's a lot of Chinese influence in Peruvian cuisine. Sounds delicious, wherever it's from. Sat Jul 18 16:48:12 -0700 2009 4869440 10159 Ruth Lafler 3 4873945 No carrots in Peruvian ceviche. Mon Jul 20 09:17:36 -0700 2009 4870673 36661 Sam Fujisaka 4 4873970 I think the reference to "ginger" was for a different ceviche that the original post, which didn't mention ginger and was from a different poster. Mon Jul 20 09:25:08 -0700 2009 4873945 10159 Ruth Lafler 2 4874227 That would be Baja California, where there is the largest Japanese and Chinese populations in Mexico.Ginger is used in tartars of tuna and haute ceviche preparations, as is soy sauce. Benito Molina, the top chef in Ensenada makes a tartar de atun with fresh ginger, and also does a toro belly with fresh sea urchin flavored by ginger.Try Manzanilla, or Muelle Tres restaurants in Ensenada, both owned by Benito. Mon Jul 20 10:41:57 -0700 2009 4869440 128722 streetgourmetla 3 4876487 streetgourmetia, thanks for answering my question. i love this ceviche with a bit of ginger that i have had at the banana café in d.c.. i also thought of various pacifica preparations of raw fish in acid marinade -- not properly "ceviche" but its oceanic "cousin". i was thinking that "lomi lomi" might have ginger, but i don't see it in this description, http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1002332/index.htm (notice, folks, this article about authentic luaus is from 1958 -- on the sports illustrated site. cool, huh?) Tue Jul 21 04:24:25 -0700 2009 4874227 105717 alkapal 1 4873908 I remember watching fishermen make dockside ceviche in the Philippines with whatever was available to balance the acidity of oranges, lime and calamansi, including ginger and grated carrots. The variations can go on and on and I've seen them applied to shrimp and squid right off the boat. Some of my favorites include a dash of fish sauce and peppers. http://starchefs.com/features/ceviche/html/index.shtml Mon Jul 20 09:05:27 -0700 2009 4141291 140436 fresnohotspot 2 4876492 fresnohotspot, thanks for that informative article! the ceviche variations all sounded delicious, and inspire me to make some ceviche soon. i find it so refreshing. here is a chow recipe for philippine-style lime-juice-marinated fish with coconut milk, too: http://www.chow.com/recipes/12952 it calls for 8 hours of marination, but that seems extreme, no? Tue Jul 21 04:27:51 -0700 2009 4873908 105717 alkapal 3 4876773 Si - might have been a typo. Our "ceviches" are usually served within the hour, except with shrimp or lobster which usually marinate for at least a couple of hours depending on the size of the cube. Kilawin is a northern Philippines (Ilocano) method usually used for goat meat. Here is a fish preparation in which the butterfish is marinated for thirty minutes. http://pinoycook.net/kilawing-gindara/ Tue Jul 21 07:01:59 -0700 2009 4876492 140436 fresnohotspot 4 4876945 thanks for that link, too. "kilawin" sounds (and looks) great! Tue Jul 21 07:54:23 -0700 2009 4876773 105717 alkapal 4 4877007 Hey, fresnohotspot, I guess I would cut way down on the salt and add way more chiles! Tue Jul 21 08:13:59 -0700 2009 4876773 36661 Sam Fujisaka 5 4877378 ditto on the chiles - I noticed the recipe called for rock salt, you remember the chunkier, cheaper salt they sold wrapped in newspaper cones. Anyway, like I mentioned earlier, I prefer a dash of fish sauce instead of regular salt. We could all benefit from less salt as we approach our 'golden years'. I see you were in D.C. for a while, Sam - working your way back to the San Joaquin valley sometime soon? Tue Jul 21 10:00:57 -0700 2009 4877007 140436 fresnohotspot 6 4877526 I'm really trying to create an opportunity to do so. Thanks! Tue Jul 21 10:37:33 -0700 2009 4877378 36661 Sam Fujisaka