567084 Fri Oct 24 01:59:48 -0700 2008 113 31 Home Cooking 0 4125766 Thick! Tangy! Luscious! No Silly Appliances! Like a number of Chowhounds, I was a Fage Yogurt addict. I loved its lusciousness, its sour-cream thickness, its tang. I ate it every morning with fruit. I was happy. Then, something happened. Fage began manufacturing their yogurt in New York instead of Greece, and the quality dropped. A lot. My old Fage was gone. The NY Fage looked and tasted chalky — it had lost its lustrousness; it didn’t have its “sour cream” texture any more; it had air pockets. And dang, it was as expensive as before — $7 at Costco for a 32-ounce tub — and that was the cheapest I ever saw it, even though the quality had dropped. I was sad and felt a little ripped off. Inspired by Sam Fujisaka and others at how easy it was to make Yogurt, I decided to break free of my Fage addiction and make Fage yogurt at home. Nothing less than full Fage flavor and texture would be good enough. I posted a thread asking for tips here… http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/555847 and began by using Sam’s ingredient proportions and microwave method described here: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/292076#2566247 Like Sam, I wasn’t going to use any silly yogurt appliance — just clean glass bowls, milk, yogurt culture, a touch of sugar, and a gentle heat source. Sam makes the yogurt on a day he’s going to be home, and after the initial heating of the milk in the microwave, he gives the milk another brief microwave zap of heat every few hours for a total of 12 hours. But I couldn't be around to nudge the heat every few hours — I had to be out and about in the world, so I fashioned another gentle — and continuous — heat source. I emptied one of my deep kitchen cabinet drawers that slides easily in and out, and with a simple clamp-on utility light converted the drawer into my — ta dah! — brand new yogurt-making, bread-proofing chamber! I was so proud of myself even though I knew an 8-year-old could’ve rigged it. I came close to Fage yogurt on the second try. Yes, it’s that easy. On my first try ever to make yogurt, it was slimy and stringy. It had phenomenal flavor, like the yogurt from Europe, but a weird texture. (I found out what I did wrong — more info about my error below.)* On the third try, I did what I had set out to do— success! Homemade Fage yogurt! Easy and cheap! Yay! Thick as sour cream, tangy, flavorful — everything I had set out to accomplish. I ended up using more dry milk than what Sam uses and I incubated the yogurt for a few hours longer. It’s amazingly good. And get this — $1.60 total cost in ingredients for 32 ounces of "Fage" yogurt! You can make as much or as little yogurt as you like at a time, though I think using 2 quarts of milk to start is good-sized batch. Just double or triple the recipe below accordingly. You can make the yogurt from whole milk, 2% or skim milk — whatever you prefer, though I add slightly more dry milk when I use skim milk. I now make 3 quarts as a time, but I’m an obnoxiously enthusiastic convert to homemade Fage yogurt, and have been giving away containers of the stuff to celebrate my joy and proselytize the flock. Yes, you! Really, you should try it. It’s so easy. Equipment: Glass or pottery bowl Microwave Instant-read thermometer — you must have this, great tool anyway, costs $8 Clamp-on or hang-anywhere utility light, like that from a hardware store, with a 100-watt bulb Deep drawer or cooler or Styrofoam box This makes about 5 cups homemade Fage-style yogurt, a little more than a quart: Ingredients: 1 quart milk — whole, 2% or skim 1½ cups dry milk or powdered milk. I checked the dry milk ratings and read that the Lucky grocery brand, Sunny Select Nonfat, tasted the best. Works great. ½ cup of plain Stonyfield yogurt, as fresh as possible, or other yogurt with active cultures. I also checked into which yogurt had the most active cultures, and Stonyfield was it. 1 Tablespoon sugar, perhaps a bit more, as food for the culture Procedure: In a clean glass or pottery bowl, thoroughly mix together the quart of milk, the 1½ cups powdered milk and sugar. This will be a very rich milk mixture. Heat the milk mixture in the microwave for three minutes, and then continue heating in one-minute intervals until the milk mixture reaches 180 degrees F. Keep checking the temp with your instant-read thermometer after each minute blast to see if the milk has reached 180 degrees. You cannot eliminate this step.* Try not to over-nuke it so that the milk scalds and spills over, but if you do all is not lost. Using a stove-top and saucepan is messier and tends to unevenly heat the milk, in my opinion. Rig your incubation chamber ahead of time. Get your clamp-on or hang-anywhere utility light, and check the wattage of the bulb (must be 100 watts, 75 watts is *not* hot enough to keep the milk mixture at 105 degrees F.). Clamp the light onto the side of the drawer so that you can shut the drawer completely (or very nearly except for the cord). You can even clamp the light onto a block of wood or other object that can fit into the drawer along with the bowls of yogurt. I use an old utility light with a thin wire sleeve that actually fits over the side of the drawer and still allows the drawer to close completely. You can use a cooler or styro box instead of a drawer. After heating the milk mixture to 180 degrees F, let it cool to 105-110 degrees. It will take a while — about 30 - 60 minutes depending on the quantity of milk — but keep checking it regularly with your instant-read thermometer. When the milk mixture reads 105-110 degrees, stir in ½ cup of the yogurt you’re using as your culture. Before adding the yogurt culture, it’s best to stir it up to make sure the active cultures are evenly distributed. Make sure the milk mixture and yogurt culture are well blended, then cover the bowl with plastic wrap or a plastic bag, and place it inside the drawer with the light on. Leave it for 14-15 hours. Unbelievable flavor after 14 hours. 12 is good but 15 is best. Then, chill the yogurt for 2-3 days. This sort of sets the yogurt — the yogurt gets very thick then, thicker than from just chilling, it seems to me. That's it! Tips: I actually make yogurt now about 6 PM in the evening, then let it do its thing till 9 AM the next morning. But you can use whatever schedule works for you. Reserve some of the yogurt from each batch to make the next batch of yogurt (1/2 cup of yogurt as your culture for each quart of liquid milk). Safety tip: Make sure the lightbulb is not touching the plastic on the top of the bowl or any other object, and that no one will trip over the electric cord — basic safety stuff. *Error on my first batch of yogurt that resulted in slimy, stringy, ropey yogurt: Many other Chowhounds in other threads said this happened to them. http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/399469 http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/390131 http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/466226#3180397 http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/292076#3618611 http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/487158 And it happened to me. Why? So off I went in search of the reason. You need to heat the milk to 180 degrees to denature the milk proteins, and to allow one protein in particular — lactoglobulin, the one that’s responsible for a smooth, consistent yogurt — to unwind. If you don’t heat the milk adequately, slimy and stringy yogurt is the result. Read more here, under “Heating the Milk”: http://joepastry.web.aplus.net/index.php?m=20070425 Thanks, Sam. Thanks other Chowhounders for all the tips. I'm saving so much money now by not buying Fage that I can take you all to the movies. Fri Oct 24 01:59:48 -0700 2008 18222 maria lorraine 1 4125823 Wonderful. Looking forward to the movie. (My lactoglobulin must be relaxed because I don't get slimy - stringy and don't heat to 180. Wonder why?). My fave breakfast is now blackberries (mora), sliced banana, yogurt, and a touch of honey on the berries. Fri Oct 24 04:24:15 -0700 2008 4125766 36661 Sam Fujisaka 2 4125875 I bet that when you first microwave the milk mixture on high for 4 minutes you get the heat up up to 180 F. Now, that berry season is over, I'm using a frozen raspberry/blackberry/blueberry blend from Costco that rocks. But any fruit in season is good. I even like crystallized ginger and canned apricots. Fri Oct 24 05:14:16 -0700 2008 4125823 18222 maria lorraine 1 4126015 Very inspiring story. Congratulations on the success! Fri Oct 24 06:47:43 -0700 2008 4125766 190434 raidar 1 4126089 Excellent! I also use a 100 watt lightbulb to make yogurt, but I put the bulb in my oven (replace the oven light with the regular 100 watt bulb) and ferment the yogurt in the closed, turned-off oven with the light on. Fri Oct 24 07:23:28 -0700 2008 4125766 76852 butterfat 2 4126919 That might be even easier! Fri Oct 24 13:26:05 -0700 2008 4126089 18222 maria lorraine 3 4914363 I tried to make homemade yogurt twice by following Jaime Olivers recipe I once saw him make on his show and it never worked. I am so excited to try this now. It looks simple and delish. Thanks for the recipe! =) My 2 year old will be eternally grateful as yogurt is her all time favorite food. =) Mon Aug 03 15:17:55 -0700 2009 4126919 1081227 DishDelish 1 4126100 Brava! Good work. Now you can have a never-ending supply of tzatziki!!! '-) Fri Oct 24 07:28:53 -0700 2008 4125766 112096 Caroline1 1 4127437 Wow! I'll have to try this, if I can hide it from my boyfriend who is terrified of milk. Thanks for sharing all your work! Fri Oct 24 17:54:57 -0700 2008 4125766 87701 Lemon Curry 1 4290072 I've had success with the tangy taste and with the overall thickness-to-jiggliness ratio desired. The bane of all my efforts, however, has been a persistent grainy or cottage-cheese quality. I follow the temperature guidelines closely, and seem to mix things pretty well -- but perhaps not well enough? Is the milk powder or the culture/starter responsible for these grainy bits? Many thanks for this thread, by the way, esp. for its compendium of earlier, related threads. I've made about 6 batches so far but remain eager to achieve the homemade yogurt nirvana others have attested to.... Fri Jan 02 11:10:38 -0800 2009 4125766 13627 sequins 2 4299794 So...it's not smooth, but clumpy? Or is it grainy, as it gritty? Are you heating the milk WITH the dry milk? Try stirring the milk and milk powder a bit longer and more vigorously, even whisking the two together as they're heating and the heated milk can absorb more powder (become supersaturated). You must heat the milk to 180F to change the protein structure of the milk, but anything past 180 F and you could be scalding the milk -- causing it to clump in the process. Long shot, but...are your pot and utentils perfectly clean? You may be inadvertently introducing another culture that creates cottage cheese, if not. Also, you're just using milk right? Milk and milk powder? Tue Jan 06 00:40:14 -0800 2009 4290072 18222 maria lorraine 3 4300039 Hi Marie - it was both gritty and clumpy. I was indeed heating the dry milk with the milk and stirred and stirred, never parting from pot-side, but more vigorous action might do the trick. In my last batch I did without the dry milk -- and got much better flavor and much-improved smoothness, though there was still some (largish, loosish) clumping phenomenon goin' on. (Utensils / pots totally clean.) I think I'm having trouble stirring the yogurt culture into the heated-then-cooled milk without either leaving small yogurty clumps in there to begin with or, well, risking killing the culture. Any tips for this stage of the process? Tue Jan 06 06:03:43 -0800 2009 4299794 13627 sequins 4 4300322 I have found clumpy yogurt results from disturbing the yogurt while it sets. I raise the temp to 180, then cool to 110-115, add in my culture, stir, it is OK if it isn't all completely smooth - that doesn't turn it clumpy. Then place in the microwave in quart glass jars. Don't stir, don't move too much and keep the temp above 100 works well for me. Then I cool to room temperature-ish and put directly in the fridge overnight, without stirring or agitating. Creamy in the morning. Tue Jan 06 08:06:02 -0800 2009 4300039 15001 jsaimd 4 4768295 stir the yogurt until smooth (& lump-free) BEFORE adding to warm milk. Fri Jun 12 17:40:56 -0700 2009 4300039 287097 meowzebub 4 4768346 I whisk the starter yogurt into a cup or so of the heated milk in a smaller bowl, then when that's smooth I mix it into the rest of the milk. Makes it much easier to avoid lumps and get it blended in evenly. Fri Jun 12 18:02:50 -0700 2009 4300039 131105 Emmmily 1 4299962 I have a warming drawer, so I assume that I could make the yogurt by putting the mixture in there. I guess I would have to figure out which setting allows the milk get to the required temperature. Tue Jan 06 05:31:31 -0800 2009 4125766 34558 roxlet 2 4768713 Oh, roxlet! I think you solved my problem. I don't have a microwave and never will due to stubbornness and a peevish nature. Fri Jun 12 21:03:13 -0700 2009 4299962 10245 oakjoan 1 4352997 Great post!! Sat Jan 24 00:48:04 -0800 2009 4125766 181500 morphone 1 4353906 As much as I enjoyed reading this, it's just not gonna happen. I'll just keep draining my storebought plain yogurt, or experimenting with my hand-me-down electric yogurtmaker (the kind with all the pots). At least it doesn't require me to tinker with my cabinets. Sat Jan 24 11:23:28 -0800 2009 4125766 10681 piccola 1 4768417 I'll again post my microwave no need to boil very thick yogurt that I make every other week: I mix and whisk two liters of whole milk, 400 grams of full powdered milk, a tablespoon of sugar, starter from my last batch, and water to total 3.75 liters. The mix goes into 5 plastic tubs; and the tubs in the microwave. MW on high for three minutes (no need to superheat); and then for 45 seconds to a minute every one-and-a-half hours or so. Punch in the time off and on, on a day you’re home for a total of up to 12 hours. Great, very thick, smooth, tangy yogurt every time. Although I do have to buy and use new starter (two little containers of run of the mill natural, unsweetened yogurt) every fourth time. Fri Jun 12 18:33:50 -0700 2009 4125766 36661 Sam Fujisaka 1 4768503 I'm a long-time Fage fan and I've seen no deterioration in quality. Fri Jun 12 19:06:42 -0700 2009 4125766 11995 pikawicca 2 4768597 Are you lucky enough to still be eating the Fage yogurt produced in Greece? The difference in quality between the Greek- and New York-produced Fage is a fairly common observance. Though there are many posts, below are two threads on that. I was so disappointed in the drop in quality that I no longer purchased Fage, though the New York plant may have improved the yogurt's quality since I last bought it. What is wrong with my Fage yogurt? http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/305943 Fage Yogurt Now Made in the USA http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/522369 Fri Jun 12 19:51:50 -0700 2009 4768503 18222 maria lorraine 3 4768679 It's a shame when a good product is messed with to meet market demand. I hope you have shared your disappointment with the producers. Especially in this economy, you would think they would want to please die-hard customers. I'm not a regular consumer of Total/Fage yogurt, but when I want to have it, I love that it is available, and I have a container in my fridge right now -- 2% and made in NY. Now I'm afraid to eat it for fear it will disappoint. I do eat yogurt almost every day, but what I am addicted to is Stonyfield Farm Organic lowfat vanilla. While I do love the Fage/Total, you have to (or at least I have to) add sweetener, and the Stonyfield vanilla is already slightly sweetened, without being cloying, and just more convenient. It doesn't have the texture of greek yogurt, but it's way better than the commercial yogurts. So, a question about your's and Sam's method for making yogurt at home. Does your finished product with your method come out with the consistency of Greek-style yogurt -- i.e. that thick? I thought that thickness was achieved by straining the yogurt, and that that was the reason why greek yogurt was thicker than other styles? Fri Jun 12 20:38:42 -0700 2009 4768597 11028 DanaB 4 4768726 Thick as thick can be, but from whole milk, milk powder, and less water relative to the normal mixing of milk powder, and up to 12 hours of yogh-ing. Fri Jun 12 21:09:47 -0700 2009 4768679 36661 Sam Fujisaka 4 4768893 Thick as thick can be... with no straining...whole or 2% milk, milk powder, no water, 15 hours of yogh-ing. Sam is the man...he am. Fri Jun 12 23:24:02 -0700 2009 4768679 18222 maria lorraine 5 4768972 SF and ml... I believe that the active verb is "to gurt", as in "mare's milk gurted in yurts in Mongolia." I've always done the added dried milk thing, but have recently wondered if whey powder would serve the same function. I've recently received a lot of buttermilk powder (Saco). Has anyone tried to use that as a thickener for homemade yogurt? It's on a 1:4 reconstitution ratio, where powdered milk is 1:3. http://www.innovatewithdairy.com/NR/rdonlyres/992407AA-618C-4E78-A223-BB417715D725/0/Butter_Powder_Spec.pdf http://www.sacofoods.com/culteredbuttermilkblend.html Sat Jun 13 01:21:50 -0700 2009 4768893 17562 FoodFuser 6 4768986 Verb: Gurt, gurted, will gurt, will have gurted, will have been gurted. Just try the buttermilk powder. My only concern is that the buttermilk powder is too acidic for the bacteria and kills them because of that. A coupla scientific articles say that buttermilk powder yogurt is softer than dry milk powder yogurt. I wonder if bacteria die-off from the increased acid is the reason. Application of Ultrafiltered Sweet Buttermilk and Sweet Buttermilk Powder in the Manufacture of Nonfat and Low Fat Yogurts: http://jds.fass.org/cgi/reprint/81/12/3163.pdf "For the low-fat yogurt, the fortification with buttermilk powder led to a slightly softer product as compared with skim milk powder." http://books.google.com/books?id=IroZmON2tHsC&pg=PA172&lpg=PA172&dq=buttermilk+powder+yogurt&source=bl&ots=SpESOe25-y&sig=dUX2UKuq3TekegpRfPEfe67yZpo&hl=en&ei=KG4zSrD9IoGOsgP9hOXZDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5 Page 172 Sat Jun 13 02:15:07 -0700 2009 4768972 18222 maria lorraine 7 4769017 So, this might just be rhetorical, given that you and Sam have found a great way to make yogurt at home, but if you held the notion of local/sustainable in your head, how would you make your yogurt with just milk? I.e., could you do it without the dried milk? Like if you were on a dairy farm, with no dried milk? Just making yogurt without any additives? My question is purely speculative, grant you. I love that you two are making great yogurt at home! Sat Jun 13 03:58:36 -0700 2009 4768986 11028 DanaB 8 4769258 Danab, I'd just use my yogurt strainers to get it thick. Unfortunately the extra time, work, reduced volume, and having to do something with the whey would probably make me less likely to continuously make yogurt. Sat Jun 13 07:11:07 -0700 2009 4769017 36661 Sam Fujisaka 8 4769619 I'd strain also. But my sense is that dry milk as an ingredient is sustainable -- it's a use for an excess of milk that may be wasted or go bad. So, DanaB, I interpreted your question instead as "How would I make extra thick yogurt if I didn't have any dried milk on hand?" And the extra labor involved and the waste of the whey may make strained yogurt the less sustainable of the two. Just thinkin' aloud... Sat Jun 13 10:19:54 -0700 2009 4769017 18222 maria lorraine 9 4770210 That was definitely my question -- I'm guessing that far back in the past, dried milk wasn't readily available, yet I'd also guess that greek-style yogurt has been around for eons :-) Of course, back then, they didn't have microwaves, either! To think of it, yogurt was probably invented as a way to use/extend the life of excess milk back in the day . . . along with sour cream and cheese. Sat Jun 13 15:42:16 -0700 2009 4769619 11028 DanaB 9 4770768 Oh, Dana, I forgot a few hings that make thicker yogurt: --you know how I talk about heating the milk to 180 degrees F? Well, if you hold the heated milk at that temp for 10-20 minutes, instead of the milk merely being brought up to that temp, the yogurt is thicker. I think it has to with the denaturing of lactoglobulin again. --also, Sam He Am likes to incubate his yogurt for 12 hours. That's fine, but I've found that when (using the same ingredients and proportions) and incubating for 15 hours produces a thicker yogurt. --finally, a very active culture of lactobacillus bulgaricus helps make thicker yogurt. Lots of yogurt beasties provide oomp to eat the lactose in the milk and produce lactic acid that thickens the milk and also provides tang. You don't need powdered milk at all. But I like that my yogurt gives me a little protein hit in the morning, and that the powdered milk creates both structure and a fuller flavor. Sat Jun 13 20:52:11 -0700 2009 4769619 18222 maria lorraine 9 4774048 Extra labor, yes, and a reduced yield too, but don't waste the whey! It's great for making bread. Mon Jun 15 09:14:50 -0700 2009 4769619 58743 alanbarnes 8 4770260 DanaB, You absolutely can make make yogurt without the powdered milk. In fact, that's the traditional way. Adding powdered milk means more protein for the bacteria work on, hence thicker yogurt. I might be wrong, but I believe "Greek style" used to mean strained yogurt. Seems to me like adding powdered milk is just an alternative way of increasing the solids content of the final product. Sat Jun 13 16:06:59 -0700 2009 4769017 53530 Zeldog 9 4770267 dog, exactly. Adding powdered means less work, time, and no whey to deal with. Sat Jun 13 16:09:28 -0700 2009 4770260 36661 Sam Fujisaka 7 4769253 Fuser and ml, please do post if you try to gurt with whey or buttermilk powder! Sat Jun 13 07:07:50 -0700 2009 4768986 36661 Sam Fujisaka 8 4772554 Sam, and others, here is your comparison. I've never added milk solids when making yogurt, but this thread made me curious, so I made side by side batches using powdered milk and buttermilk. Here are the ingredients: Milk (2% fat), Lucerne brand Instant powdered milk, from the bulk section Red Mill buttermilk powder One 150 g (5.3 ounce) container of Stoneybrook greek style yogurt I split the milk equally into two similar sauce pans and put them on low heat on the stove. As they warmed up I whisked in a cup of buttermilk powder into one and a cup of powdered milk into the other. I tried to keep the temperatures equal while heating, brought both up to to 180F and held at 180-185F for about 6 minutes. I let both cool on the stovetop to about 118F and added half of the starter to each. I transfered to 1 qt canning jars and incubated in the oven with a 100 watt bulb as the heat source. The oven temp was a steady 110F for the first 2 or 3 hours, but in the morning it had dropped to 103F, which is not too bad. Total incubation time was about 13 hours. Both batches were noticably thicker than basic yogurt, more solid (especially the powdered milk batch), but not quite the consistency of Fage or other commercial greek style products. The amount of added milk solids I used was less than some recipes I found, so I expect adding more would get you closer to that Fage consistency if that's what you like. There was a big difference in taste. The powdered milk batch was pretty much like standard yogurt, but thicker. The texture was a tiny bit grainy, but that may be due to my technique, as most of the time it turns out that way for me. But still it was less so than many commercial brands. The flavor was identical to the Stoneybrook used as starter but a bit subdued, possibly due to the relatively short incubation time, small amount of starter, and temperature on the low side. As for the buttermilk batch, this is something special! Sitting in the fridge is the smoothest yogurt I've ever made. The mouth feel brings to mind a really good creme brulee without the sugar. Perhaps that's because there's some fat (2 g per cup) in buttermilk powder. Or something else. Who cares? The trade off, however, is flavor. The buttermilk batch was noticably milder, but not so much you would call it bland. It could even be a good thing if you like your yogurt on the mellow side. As for me, buttermilk powder is going to be part of my routine, probably along with a little powdered milk to keep it thick. Sun Jun 14 17:13:56 -0700 2009 4769253 53530 Zeldog 9 4772657 Very interesting. How much 2 percent liquid milk was used for each of the two batches? Sun Jun 14 17:55:41 -0700 2009 4772554 17562 FoodFuser 10 4772715 I did forget to mention that. One quart each. And a note on cost: buttermilk powder is more expensive by the pound. For me it was about $5 for 1.5 lbs vs about $1.70/lb for powdered milk. But considering how much you use per quart of yogurt it's no big deal. Sun Jun 14 18:26:48 -0700 2009 4772657 53530 Zeldog 9 4772671 Good write-up! I'll have to try the buttermilk powder! Sun Jun 14 17:59:09 -0700 2009 4772554 18222 maria lorraine 9 4773403 Brilliant. I'll look for buttermilk powder the next time I'm in the US. Mon Jun 15 05:04:27 -0700 2009 4772554 36661 Sam Fujisaka 10 4773856 Can you ship an Amazon product (restricted to US shipments) to a colleague or agency in the target city? If so: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001E5E2BS/ref=ox_ya_oh_product It will keep well in the freezer. Mon Jun 15 08:22:18 -0700 2009 4773403 17562 FoodFuser 11 4773944 Thank you. I'll be back in DC in about 10 days and will get some then. Mon Jun 15 08:48:03 -0700 2009 4773856 36661 Sam Fujisaka 12 4776139 Sam, Buttermilk powder is not so easy to find in stores. Try Whole Foods or a health food place or hippie co-op. It's not a common supermarket item, which I found out the first time I looked for it. For making sausages, ironically. Mon Jun 15 19:20:03 -0700 2009 4773944 53530 Zeldog 13 4785925 It's in every grocery store in my town. Thu Jun 18 17:31:18 -0700 2009 4776139 11995 pikawicca 12 4776334 By the way, when you look for buttermilk powder in DC, I usually find it shelved with baking ingredients in the supermarket, rather than with the canned and other powdered milks. Mon Jun 15 20:41:44 -0700 2009 4773944 10074 Caitlin McGrath 13 4776396 Here's a Chowhound thread on Buttermilk Powder: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/612694 Whole Foods and Super Wal-Mart sell it. As I just discovered, King Arthur Flour and Bob's Mills sells it. (Caitlin, I see that you posted the King Arther source on the other thread!) Mon Jun 15 21:11:22 -0700 2009 4776334 18222 maria lorraine 14 4776958 Thank you, Zeldog, Caitlin, and maria. I have to buy it at a place near a Metro stop. Tue Jun 16 06:00:16 -0700 2009 4776396 36661 Sam Fujisaka 4 4785938 Fage hasn't been "messed with." The ingredients are the same as they've always been: Grade A Milk and Cream, and Live Active Yogurt Cultures. I've been eating this yogurt with granola several times a week for breakfast for years. There is no difference in the product I'm buying now. Thu Jun 18 17:37:13 -0700 2009 4768679 11995 pikawicca 5 4792486 The Fage 0% is really incredible...how do they make it feel so creamy? I love it. Have been making blueberry smoothies with it on alternate work mornings (instead of oatmeal...just can't do it when it is so blasted hot down here in SWFL) and have used low-fat kefir a few times instead of the Fage. I notice that buttermilk also has live cultures....does anyone use buttermilk in their smoothies? Just wondering. Sun Jun 21 12:32:42 -0700 2009 4785938 11983 Val 3 4770458 The stuff I'm buying is the same stuff I've been buying for a long time. Don't know about other parts of the country. Sat Jun 13 17:42:48 -0700 2009 4768597 11995 pikawicca 4 4770482 As far as I can tell, all the Fage sold in the US, with the exception of the sheep's milk stuff, has been produced in the US since the middle of last year. Not everyone concurs that the quality is worse than that of the Greek-made original sold in the US prior to one year ago. Sat Jun 13 17:53:38 -0700 2009 4770458 10074 Caitlin McGrath 5 4770736 Yes, you're right. Not everyone concurs. The difference is striking to some, though. Sat Jun 13 20:39:41 -0700 2009 4770482 18222 maria lorraine 6 4770769 No doubt about that! Sat Jun 13 20:53:08 -0700 2009 4770736 10074 Caitlin McGrath 1 4770866 Speaking of natto -- I've been making yogurt off and on with varying results, but the last batch turned out with a really weird mucilagenous texture. Not sure what caused it. It wasn't bad (I ate it and it was fine), but it was aesthetically unappealing. Sat Jun 13 21:52:05 -0700 2009 4770526 10159 Ruth Lafler 2 4771925 I can't remember where I saw/heard about this-- but is there is a Swedish (?) cultured milk dish that is *supposed* to be ropey--so much so that it is served by pulling up a scoopful and snipping it off? Anybody familiar with this? Sun Jun 14 11:42:46 -0700 2009 4770866 42470 blue room 3 4773146 yes, my great grandmother used to make this all the time. I never knew the swedish name, we just called it 'thickmilk'. I loved it. I still like ropey yogurt. Sun Jun 14 22:34:16 -0700 2009 4771925 15802 pepper_mil 4 4773458 Aha, I didn't imagine it then-- just now I googled "cultured milk scissors" and came up with this: " Both foods will usually be nicely set and done after 18-24 hours. Piima should be a thick liquid drink if made with skim milk or a viscous "slippery" custard if made with whole milk. Viili comes in two consistencies, long or short. Short viili, made from warm milk, is milder and has a consistency somewhat like custard, but a little more "elastic," while long viili, made from cold milk, has a consistency like "stretchy honey." Finns say that, at its best, it should require cutting with scissors. The viili sold in most stores is short. Viili is always eaten with a spoon while piima is usually drunk, however pitka (long) piima, may also be eaten. Many Finns eat viili as is, usually at lunch, from the bowl in which it is made, often topped with a sprinkling of sugar and/or berries. Americans also like to use it like cream or whipped cream, atop apple strudel, apple pie, or Granola." Mon Jun 15 05:55:53 -0700 2009 4773146 42470 blue room 2 4772152 Ruth, see above about ropey, slimey texture and heating the milk to 180 degrees F. That might be what happened to your last batch -- it happened to me, too. Sun Jun 14 13:54:26 -0700 2009 4770866 18222 maria lorraine 1 4770570 I've found a few posts online from people who have made yogurt in their slow-cooker or in their oven (using the oven light as the heat source) - has anyone tried making Greek yogurt this way? I have plans to try this once I finish my current stash but wanted to see in advance if anyone had any tips. Sat Jun 13 18:49:43 -0700 2009 4125766 11434 FlyerFan 2 4776459 I use my oven to incubate yoghurt. I pre-heat it to about 90F then just leave the yogurt in it for 8-12 hours with the light on. It works very well. Mon Jun 15 21:46:20 -0700 2009 4770570 253318 toastnjam 3 4792626 Do you cover the bowl while it is in the oven? if so, with what? Sun Jun 21 13:55:35 -0700 2009 4776459 10156 Steve 1 4771780 Does anyone use an electric heating pad? Seems a cheap easy way to keep the temp. Sun Jun 14 10:33:13 -0700 2009 4125766 117271 Stuffed Monkey 2 4772223 Google has lots of detailed reports on using a heating pad to incubate yogurt. I searched for -- make yogurt "heating pad" -- and lots of entries came up. If you try the heating pad technique, please post how things turned out. Sun Jun 14 14:34:23 -0700 2009 4771780 18222 maria lorraine 1 4772416 Fantastic to read this again, it is a project I want to try. But while reading I couldn't help but wonder if this could be made in the crockpott? So I did a quick search and seems someone has done just that... http://crockpot365.blogspot.com/2008/10/you-can-make-yogurt-in-your-crockpot.html The reason I was thinking about another way, was because I don't have a drawer deep enough to have the warming drawer going on, and with a three year old that loves to cook, I know he'd be in there stirring my bowl when I have my back turned. Has anyone tried the crockpot? If it is in this thread, I apologize for not catching it. Sun Jun 14 16:04:57 -0700 2009 4125766 50431 chef chicklet 2 4775990 From what I've read online, you want to keep the incubation temperature below 120F, and most recipes call for around 105F which is supposed to produce a smoother yogurt. That recipe you posted calls for heating the milk to some unspecified temperature, adding the starter, turning off the heat and wrapping with towels to slow the cooling, and the incubation time of 8 hours is on the low side. So will it make yogurt? Yes, but really good yogurt, I doubt it. Not many folks have a deep drawer they can dedicate to making yogurt, but all you need is a box and a low heat source. For me thats the oven and a 100 watt bulb, but I've seen recipes calling for plastic coolers and jars of hot water and other variations. Whatever gives you a warm, steady temperature. Mon Jun 15 18:36:30 -0700 2009 4772416 53530 Zeldog 3 4777940 Do you think an electric heating pad might work? or perhaps a crock pot set on "warm"? I'm trying to think of constant low-heat sources that I can put out-of-reach of a 2-year-old and which won't result in yogurt-funk permeating my cabinets... Tue Jun 16 10:14:19 -0700 2009 4775990 19037 Foodielicious 4 4779666 I did come across a recipe where heating pads were used. They rolled them around the jars rather than setting the jars on top of the pads. A crock pot should work really well if you can keep the temperature in the 105-110 range. Rather than risk wasting some milk fill the crock pot with warm water, stick a thermometer in it, and see what the temperature is after a couple of hours. If it's too hot you could make a sort of double boiler by placing a steel mixing bowl on top of the crock pot. Cover the bowl with foil or plastic or a pot lid if you have the right size. Either way you should use a very clean thermometer to monitor the temperature the first time out. Tue Jun 16 18:37:51 -0700 2009 4777940 53530 Zeldog 4 4785973 If you look at the crockpot directions linked earlier in this thread, they recommend heating up the crockpot, then turning it off and wrapping it with a towel to maintain the heat. I'm planning to try this soon. Thu Jun 18 17:50:50 -0700 2009 4777940 12233 Pia 5 4792493 I might try the crockpot method, too; it certainly has a ton of comments/reviews from folks who've tried it out. Sun Jun 21 12:35:42 -0700 2009 4785973 11983 Val 5 4792693 Thanks pia, i have two settings on my crockpot, high and low and no idea what temperature they are able to mainitain. I will do the test as zeldog suggests, that's a perfect idea. thanks to you both. Sun Jun 21 14:25:56 -0700 2009 4785973 50431 chef chicklet 6 4793166 When I once tried the crockpot method, it did not work right, came out stringy. Maybe because I did not first heat up the milk to 180. Sun Jun 21 18:22:01 -0700 2009 4792693 12520 walker 3 4910949 I tried the recipe as written and it worked fine. Since I have been making yogurt for years in my Donvier maker (8 individual cups) I used that. I'm personally not a fan of the extra thick style, but that's just preference. I wanted to note that the Donvier yogurt maker only takes 10 watts, so the 100watt lightbulb solution costs 10 times more energy/carbon footprint for those who want to improve their "green-ness". You could try heating your oven to the minimum temp and then turning it off when you put the yogurt in. Sun Aug 02 11:49:08 -0700 2009 4775990 14571 Guido 4 4911150 You're talking about the difference in electrical energy consumed, and you've left out the cost of the appliance? That's silly. Besides, you can’t simply compare watts to watts to evaluate green-ness. You have to factor in volts and electrical resistance to make an accurate comparison between two "appliances." For example: Both a 6-volt battery and a 12-volt battery will each power a 100-watt bulb. The 6-volt battery will use 16.66 amps and the 12-volt will use 8.3 amps. Which means the 8.3 amps powers the 100-watt bulb with *half* the current, so it is the more efficient — even though the lightbulb wattage is the same. All to say a wattage comparison is not an accurate measure of electrical consumption. To also accurately compare "greenness," we’d also need to make sure electrical consumption was compared for the same quantity of yogurt made. The Donvier yogurt maker makes 1.5 quarts, but the 100-watt bulb method above easily makes 4 quarts. (Even if you decide to make only 1.5 quarts.) And to really be accurate, you'd have to include the energy used to heat the milk (via microwave or stove) to use the lightbulb method. So we need to know amps, volts, and yogurt volume to accurately evaluate green-ness.Which is one reason why your comparison of 10 watts for the Donvier vs. 100 watts for the lightbulb method makes no sense. Probably most striking is that you've left out the cost of the applicance. Cost usually translates as human energy -- the number of work hours needed to produce a specific amount of money. In this case, the human energy cost is $50 for the appliance (on Amazon) vs. $0 to use the bowls/jars and pan at home. The $50 you pay for the applicance could buy a lot of electricity. So if there *were* any electrical savings from using the Donvier appliance (and it's not at all determined that there is), you'd have to make many, many batches of yogurt for the accumulated electrical savings to equal $50. Putting methods for making homemade yogurt aside, probably the most interesting energy comparison is between manufactured yogurt and homemade yogurt, which includes differences in the energy consumed to produce and transport raw ingredients, energy consumed in manufacturing the product, energy used to "grow" and produce packaging, and transportation. Finally, there is the difference in cost (again a measure of human energy) between manufactured vs. homemade yogurt. There is little difference in the ingredients cost between homemade methods (unless the ingredients are different), but there is an 5- to 7-fold difference in cost between homemade and manufactured yogurt. Determining green-ness or total energy consumption requires gathering accurate data on many factors. Sun Aug 02 13:50:21 -0700 2009 4910949 18222 maria lorraine 5 4912292 I am not sure why you say that wattage is not an accurate measure of electrical consumption, while you seem to think that current is (or at least that it is better that wattage). The resource you are using up and paying the electrical company for is energy, not current. Wattage is power, which is a direct measure of energy consumed for a given period of time. Thus, it is the appropriate measure of electrical consumption, so long as the time the device is being powered remains the same. Current, on the other hand, simply measures the amount of charge for a given period of time. That charge can be a high-energy charge (high voltage) or low-energy charge (low voltage). So measuring how much charge is consumed in a given time (amps) doesn't really tell us how much electrical energy was consumed. Amps is not enough to tell us the energy consumption. Volts is also not enough... it just tells us how much energy each unit of charge has. But watts (which is amps multiplied by volts) does tell us what we need to know. In your example, you compare a 6V, 17A circuit with a 12V, 8A circuit. The power is 100W in both cases. So in both cases, if you run the device for an hour, you will consume 100 W x 1 h = 0.1 kilowatt-hours of energy, regardless of which circuit you use. You are saying the 12 volt circuit is more efficient because it only uses 8 amps. I could just as easily claim that the 6 volt circuit is more efficient because it uses fewer volts. Neither makes sense, because amps and volts are not the resource we are consuming. The resource is energy (joules or kilowatt-hours). Wattage (joules per second), unlike amps or volts, does measure how much of our resource (energy) we are using (per second, that is, so we do need to take into account how long we are running the device for). You pay the electrical company for energy consumed, not current.... kiloWATT-hours, not kiloAMP-hours. So long as the hours of (powered) use is the same, and the amount of yogurt produced is the same, then it seems to me that wattage is a perfectly reasonable measure of electrical energy consumed. Factoring in the amount of yogurt produced, the time it takes to produce it, and the energy of manufacture amortized over the life of the yogurt maker gives us the following rough formula for energy consumption of a yogurt maker (note that it does not care about amps or volts): E = WT / Y + YM / L E = TOTAL ENERGY CONSUMPTION PER LITRE OF YOGURT PRODUCED W = POWER ... wattage of the yogurt maker T = PRODUCTION TIME ... amount of (powered) time the device is on to make a batch of yogurt Y = PRODUCTION CAPACITY ... litres of yogurt in a batch M = ENERGY OF MANUFACTURE ... total energy used to manufacture and transport the yogurt maker L = LIFETIME PRODUCTION CAPACITY ... litres of yogurt produced over life of the machine The first term in the formula (WT/Y) is the immediate electrical energy it actually takes to produce a litre of yogurt with a given machine. It is relatively easy to calculate. The second term (YM/L) is the energy consumed in manufacturing the machine (including any repair costs over the life of the machine), and is much more difficult to determine. It is important to note, however, that this cost is not $0 just because the yogurt maker is home-made. The cost of bowls, jars, etc., for making yogurt without a store-bought machine is certainly not zero. All those items (including the lamp fixture) have costs, too, can be broken, need to be maintained and replaced, etc. Ignoring the manufacture energy, the calculation of which is fraught with great difficulty, and just looking at immediate electrical energy consumption, if we assume that both the 100-watt bulb and the Donvier methods both make 1.5 litres (read "quarts" if you are American), and take 15 hours, then the difference is: E(donvier) = WT / Y = 10 watts * 15 h / 1.5 L = 0.1 kilowatt-hours per litre E(bulb) = WT / Y= 100 watts * 15 h / 1.5 L = 1 kilowatt-hour per litre So the Donvier is 10 times as efficient. But lets look at the other factors you rightly mention. You mention, for instance, that the 100-watt bulb method can easily make 4 litres. So if we go with that: E(bulb) = WT / Y= 100 watts * 15 h / 4 L = 0.375 kilowatt-hours per litre This is still almost four times as wasteful of energy than the Donvier. So you'd have to make 15 litres (quarts) of yogurt per batch with the 100 watt bulb to equal the efficiency of the Donvier. Your point about the $50 cost of the Donvier certainly has merit, although is not nearly as straightforward as all that, either. Given your assumption that your home machine costs you $0, and still assuming we are okay with making as much as 4 L at a time, and using the current cost of electricity where I live (Toronto): Cost of electricity = 6 cents / kW-h (current price in my area) Electrical cost of Donvier = 0.6 cents / litre Electrical cost of 100 W bulb method = 2.25 cents / litre Cost difference = 1.65 cents / litre Amount of yogurt you need to make in a Donvier for electrical savings to make up for the initial cost = $50 / ($0.0165/L) = 3000 L So you'd need to make 3000 L / 1.5 L per batch = 2000 batches of yogurt in your Donvier for its electrical savings to pay for itself. However, I think your assumption of $0 could be questioned. Are all your jars/bowls, etc. things you'd have otherwise? Is there no wear and tear on them at all? Does the light bulb never need replacing? Any method has costs, and the light bulb method is certainly not zero. But granted, it would still probably take at least hundreds, if not thousands, of batches of yogurt for the energy savings to pay for the machine. I don't know how long a Donvier lasts, but provided it is a very well-built machine, and depending of course on the actual costs of the light bulb method, it just might have a chance at paying for itself over its entire lifetime. However, it should also be noted that $50 is NOT a measure of the energy of manufacture, but rather a market price for the product. So the 2000 batches number is an extreme upper limit if we are talking about environmental impact. The actual figure would be quite problematic to calculate. However, realistically, the actual energy cost of manufacture is bound to be much lower than the retail price. I've no idea what the actual figures would be, but just to give an idea of how to do the calculations, I will guess that the energy of manufacture of the Donvier is 10% of its retail price, or $5 (I've no idea if that is realistic). In that case, we would only need 200 batches of yogurt in the Donvier to make up for the environmental impact of its energy of manufacturing. Given some minimal cost for the 100 watt light bulbs, the actual number would be still less, let's guess 150. That would be easily met within the life of the machine unless it is very poorly made. Finally, it should just be noted also that there is the human energy spent in rigging up the drawer compared to the ease and convenience of using the Donvier, which counts for something too, whatever its environmental impact. Mon Aug 03 01:13:22 -0700 2009 4911150 19782 Full tummy 6 4914319 thanks for the analysis. I did not figure the energy consumption of manufacturing the Donvier appliance. The assumption was the bowls and pans were items of long-standing in the kitchen and had many uses in many applications. I do count the cost of the Donvier appliance as *human* energy -- in terms of hours worked to attain a given number of dollars. Finally, the labor of assembly per batch -- washing jars for the Donvier, getting it ready to use vis a vis washing bowls/pan for the lightbulb method, clamping the light on the drawer-- I considered a wash. Thanks again. Loved the number of batches comparison. Mon Aug 03 14:58:57 -0700 2009 4912292 18222 maria lorraine 7 4914881 Oh my!!! If only you saw my drawers! Haha... I have put the Donvier on my Christmas list and am keeping fingers crossed... Mon Aug 03 18:49:48 -0700 2009 4914319 19782 Full tummy 1 4783855 Uh oh, I didn't read the instructions carefully and I added the stonyfield yogurt into the mixture before I heated the whole thing to 180. Is it ruined? Thu Jun 18 06:53:46 -0700 2009 4125766 61733 Linda513 2 4783864 The starter was killed, but you can simply add another starter after it cools down. Thu Jun 18 06:57:00 -0700 2009 4783855 17562 FoodFuser 3 4783907 Oh, good, thanks for the info! Thu Jun 18 07:13:10 -0700 2009 4783864 61733 Linda513 4 4784190 Although maria lorraine and I have never come to a conclusion re: that I never heat my milk to high temp and it works great. Thu Jun 18 08:30:19 -0700 2009 4783907 36661 Sam Fujisaka 5 4785114 Sam, I'm-a wondering if your milk reaches 180 F during your initial 4-minute microwave blast. I'd love for you to take a temp if you can.... M. Thu Jun 18 12:31:40 -0700 2009 4784190 18222 maria lorraine 6 4785128 You suggested high temp before. I don't thinks so because it is just warm to the touch - kind of like a baby's bath water. maybe because teh liquid milk comes in UHT packs? Thu Jun 18 12:35:21 -0700 2009 4785114 36661 Sam Fujisaka 7 4785158 Could be. UHT has to have a minimum heat of 275 F. Thu Jun 18 12:42:16 -0700 2009 4785128 18222 maria lorraine 1 4785264 First of all, congratulations! I really appreciate you walking us through all the details, especially the mis-steps that I'm sure I would replicate on my first few tries. It's hard to write it all out clearly and you've done a bang-up job. Hopefully I'll have a report to share when I try it! I'm big into my Fage, too, and it really bums me out that the organic version offered at WF is only available fat-free. Wah! The fat is the point! So I think I'm gonna try making some with raw milk from some of the local farmers. Thu Jun 18 13:13:51 -0700 2009 4125766 42513 Mawrter 1 4785922 WOW!!!!! Thanks. Thu Jun 18 17:28:50 -0700 2009 4125766 11408 melly 1 4790483 I made a batch a couple of days ago, and it looks like yogurt and feels like yogurt, but it's not as tangy as yogurt. It's too sweet. Can I make it without the sugar next time? Sat Jun 20 12:48:43 -0700 2009 4125766 61733 Linda513 2 4790522 You bet. It just won't turn out as thick. Sat Jun 20 13:04:47 -0700 2009 4790483 36661 Sam Fujisaka 2 4790957 Yes, or only use a smidgen of sugar. See add'l tips above that create thickness. Sat Jun 20 16:40:48 -0700 2009 4790483 18222 maria lorraine 1 4792697 Can I ask a dumb question? Is this the way that they make creme fraiche? Not that I want a crockpot full, but is the method similar? Sun Jun 21 14:28:23 -0700 2009 4125766 50431 chef chicklet 2 4793038 That is not a dumb question. Here are the differences, as best I can explain. Creme fraiche starts with cream and uses a combo of different bacteria to culture the milk (s.lactis, s. cremoris, s lactis biovar diacetylactis), which you have to order. It's incubated at room temp till it looks like yogurt, and then drained. Lots of fat, butteriness, lusciousness. Sun Jun 21 17:07:59 -0700 2009 4792697 18222 maria lorraine 2 4856279 Good info on making creme fraiche here: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/283633#4850341 Tue Jul 14 02:06:07 -0700 2009 4792697 18222 maria lorraine 1 4861055 Can you make yogurt with half and half or with heavy cream? Wed Jul 15 10:39:09 -0700 2009 4125766 1087684 cmocva 2 4861173 Yes and yes. Wed Jul 15 11:13:51 -0700 2009 4861055 58743 alanbarnes 2 4946119 I made my first batch of yogurt last week and it is probably the best yogurt I have ever eaten. I used about 1.5 cups half and half, 2.5 cups 1% milk and a packet of Yogourmet starter that I bought from King Arthur Flour. I know the calorie count is higher than normal yogurt because of the half and half, but it was in my fridge and needed to be used for something. What a difference between it and the overly tart low fat stuff I buy in the stores! I followed the directions on the starter packet which include bringing the temp of the milk to 180 and then cooling it to about 110 before adding the starter. Then I put it in short, wide mouth canning jars with lids and put it in my warming drawer set between proof and low temp for about 5 hours. After chilling in the fridge, it came out absolutely perfect. I will try with just 1% and eventually try it with leftover yogurt as the starter rather than the packaged stuff, but if it isn't good, I'm throwing weight concerns out the window and going back to the addition of half and half. It was seriously in a yogurt class of its own. Fri Aug 14 07:51:56 -0700 2009 4861055 28134 mary0201 1 5064092 Crock pot setup. Opened crock pot - disconnected the thermostat - now power goes directly to the heater. Regulated the temperature with a light dimmer. Keeps the temp almost constant. Result - no more guessing and repeatable results. Mon Sep 28 10:05:26 -0700 2009 4125766 1112533 mrtarzan 2 5064391 Nice rigging. Mon Sep 28 11:41:47 -0700 2009 5064092 18222 maria lorraine 3 5131016 Hi Maria, If one makes a batch with the quart of milk recipe you have provided above, according to my calculations for a 1 cup serving at a little over 100 calories per serving the protein content would average out to be about 10 grams of protein per serving. How does Fage make thier 1 cup servings provide between 15- 23 grams of protein? Something must be missing in the recipe or is the extra protein obtained from the cooking or method of incubating the yogurt? The main reason I love greek yogurt is because of the super high protein count so I am very interested in learning how to achieve this! Please let me know if you know how to increase the protein level without increasing the calorie content too much. Mon Oct 26 05:17:53 -0700 2009 5064391 1118815 bbiase1 1 5064505 Man this looks like it would be delicious. I am not familiar with this kind of Fage stuff but am willing to try and make the yogurt when I have the needed utensils, like the box for prepping and the clamp on light of 100 watts. Sounds fun to me......... Mon Sep 28 12:18:02 -0700 2009 4125766 23096 iL Divo 1 5127463 Hi Maria! This is good stuff... I've been looking for a greek yogurt recipe and always thought that you had to simply strain regular yogurt to make greek yogurt. I like the idea of making it w/out an expensive yogurt maker. I have one question for you...with your recipe , do you have any idea of the calorie content per one cup serving? Would it be the same as Fage 0% at 120 calories per cup if you made the yogurt with skim milk and fat free powdered milk? Sat Oct 24 09:24:49 -0700 2009 4125766 1118815 bbiase1 2 5130776 I'm not sure. I think it's less. Pretty easy to do the math. Add the ingredient calories from the main recipe above -- 4 cups nonfat fluid milk (344), 1½ cups dry milk (calories vary by brand, but nonfat is around 432), 1/2 cup of Stonyfield nonfat yogurt as starter culture (55), tablespoon of sugar (45) -- and divide the total (876) by the number of 1/2 cup servings you get. This recipe makes a large amount, but I don't know the exact quantity because I usually make larger batches. Also, it seems the total volume is less with a longer fermentation time (which I always do now). If you get an exact volume in ounces or cups with your next batch and can ascertain the number of calories per 1/2 cup serving, let us know. I'll do the same. BTW, this homemade yogurt has a lot more lean protein per serving than the Fage Total. Sun Oct 25 21:36:57 -0700 2009 5127463 18222 maria lorraine 3 5131025 How is it that the homemade yogurt has more lean protein that the Fage yogurt? BTW, I made my first batch last night and it turned out completely wrong. I could not get the temperature of the milk past 160 degrees... I kept microwaving it probably for about 10 minutes or more in 1 minute intervals and still the temp wouldnt budge past 160. Then the milk boiled and started to curdle. It looks like small curded cottage cheese. I went ahead with it and it is finishing incubating in my oven as we speak. Will it still be edible? Why do you think the temp would not reach 180 degrees? Could something possibly be wrong with my thermoneter? I just bought the easy read thermometer (non digital) at Target this weekend. Would the yogurt have been just fine if I let it simply reach the 160 mark rather than continuing to heat the milk trying to budge the temp up to 180?? Mon Oct 26 05:25:30 -0700 2009 5130776 1118815 bbiase1 4 5131812 There's more milk protein in homemade yogurt because the amount of dry milk used is greater than what manufacturers use. You can check the math on this also, by using the nutrition panels on both the fluid milk and dry milk packages. Your thermometer sounds broken if you checked the temp after each one minute microwave blast -- obviously if the milk boiled it was way past 160 degrees F. My guess is curdled milk won't work for yogurt. Curdled milk means the structure of the milk has changed into solid proteins and whey, so I can't imagine the yogurt bacteria being able to do their thing the way they're supposed to, darn it. Mon Oct 26 10:13:34 -0700 2009 5131025 18222 maria lorraine 5 5132025 Darn it is right! I will try again though... I added up all of the protein with the ingredients in your recipe and come up with about 10 grams of protein per cup of yogurt. This is not a lot. Fage has about 16 or 18 grams of protein per cup serving. How can we increase the protein amount without increasing the calories? Mon Oct 26 11:16:29 -0700 2009 5131812 1118815 bbiase1 6 5132106 How many cups of yogurt did you figure the recipe made? The dry milk will mostly dissolve and add little additional volume to the fluid milk. Mon Oct 26 11:42:11 -0700 2009 5132025 18222 maria lorraine 7 5133049 For your recipe above using 1 quart of milk and 1 1/2 cups of powdered milk would yield about 8 cups of the final yogurt when complete. 8 cups of yogurt has10 grams of protein if using skim milk (this protein count includes protein from the quart of milk, drymilk and the 1/2 cup of starter yogurt). Mon Oct 26 17:19:10 -0700 2009 5132106 1118815 bbiase1 8 5133075 Remember, the dry milk dissolves. Similar to adding any powder to a liquid. So it doesn't contribute to the volume of the mixture in the way you're calculating. Mon Oct 26 17:33:49 -0700 2009 5133049 18222 maria lorraine 9 5133330 Ahh your absolutely right!!! I forgot that we are not adding water with the powdered milk so there is a lot more protein per serving and more calories per serving than I initially estimated. Mon Oct 26 19:11:45 -0700 2009 5133075 1118815 bbiase1 10 5133486 Here's a fairly accurate comparison between the homemade yogurt made from the above recipe and Fage 0% fat. The homemade yogurt was made using all nonfat ingredients. Yield is 5 cups. Both are for a 1/2 cup serving. Homemade recipe above, 0% fat: 80 calories, 14 grams protein Fage 0% fat: 60 calories, 10 grams protein This isn't precisely an apples-to-apples comparison because Fage yogurt is drained after manufacturing, further reducing the volume. We could drain the homemade yogurt to get an even more accurate comparison, but it really isn't necessary. OK, I'm done with math here... Mon Oct 26 20:23:59 -0700 2009 5133330 18222 maria lorraine 11 5133896 Thanks Maria! I have another one for you ... how can I get the calorie count down from 160 calories per 1 cup serving to about 120 calories per one cup serving? The only way I presume would be to decrease the amount of the ingredients since there isnt a lower calorie milk or powdered milk that we could use. I wonder how Fage makes theirs lower in calories? Would the end result of the yogurt change dramatically if I decreased the amount of powdered milk or real milk in order to cut the calorie count a bit? If not, which do you think would be the better choice to decrease in your recipe- the real milk or the powdered milk? Tue Oct 27 05:40:55 -0700 2009 5133486 1118815 bbiase1 1 5132248 I love the idea of making my own yogurt. I have a few questions though. Does it matter what kind of milk is used? ie: Full Fat, 2%, 1%, Cream, Half & Half? Ditto for the powdered milk? I typically don't like a tart yogurt, I like more mellow, smooth flavor. When it's "processing" in the oven, is it in a single large glass bowl ? With or w/o a lid? After it is done in the oven can I transfer it to smaller containers (plastic) and then put in the fridge or do I wait until it's been refrigerated a few days to put it individual containers. How long will it stay good for? Ok, I think that's all the questions I have for now. I'm so excited to try this. I'm spending way to much money on good yogurt lately. Mon Oct 26 12:27:28 -0700 2009 4125766 158403 jcattles 2 5132319 Again, I use two liters of whole milk, 450 grams of whole milk powder, starter from the previous batch, a touch of brown sugar, and water to make around four liters. I don't heat to high heat, but just to have the yogurt incubate and grow. Get full, solid, tangy yogurt every time. Mon Oct 26 12:48:02 -0700 2009 5132248 36661 Sam Fujisaka 2 5132519 Type of milk doesn't matter, though I've never used 1/2 and 1/2. Ditto powdered milk -- doesn't matter what type. If you like mellow yogurt, go for the shorter incubation/fermentation time. Simple glass bowl is fine. Or jar. With lid or plastic wrap, to keep the heat in. I use plastic wrap. After fermentation, keep in bowl OR transfer into smaller containers and put into frig. Wait 2-3 days to eat. Stays good awhile, 2-3 weeks, I'd say. Tip: take temp throughout "incubation" to make sure temp is in the correct range. Mon Oct 26 13:50:59 -0700 2009 5132248 18222 maria lorraine 1 5166010 I make Greek style yogurt by the gallons, whole organic milk, sometimes half and half or whipping cream added. I put 3 - 3 1/2 gallons of milk in a 4 gallon stainless steel stock pot. The milk is heated on the stove to 180 degrees. Then I cool the milk mixture to 115 degrees, either on the counter or in a water bath (cold tap water in the kitchen sink....set the pan in the water with the thermometer in it). DO NOT STIR YOUR MILK.....NOT WHILE HEATING OR COOLING, NOT WHILE ADDING YOUR STARTER. Stirring makes the texture grainier. I add 1/3 cup room temperature starter per gallon of milk, sliding it down the side of the pan so as not to disturb the skin on the milk. Again, DO NOT STIR! Also, adding too much starter makes the yogurt more sour. After adding the starter, I cover the lid of the stockpot and put it in my old oven with a pilot light. After 8 hours, I have the most gorgeous custard yogurt. Then I place a commercial size (large) coffee filter in a colander that is sitting in a large plastic tub. Then I gently ladle in the yogurt. The whey is good for making bread or for mixing into smoothies or other drinks. If you do not have an old oven with a pilot light, use an ice chest. I place a heated bath towel on the bottom of the ice chest, place my 2 gallon stockpot with the warm milk mixture in the center, then place gallon milk jugs filled with the hottest tap water (put the lids on the milk jugs). Then I close the lid of the ice chest and wait for 8 - 12 hours. It works great. Be sure to try out the size of your pan and the milk jugs before you are ready to make your yogurt, there are different sized ice chests.....I make gallons of this yogurt at a time.....no powdered milk or sugar, just milk and starter. It is fabulous. Sun Nov 08 18:50:24 -0800 2009 4125766 1122891 texas grrrl