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A third milk thread: why in the world do people buy skim or low-fat milk?

Sam Fujisaka Oct 21, 2008 05:23 PM

As hounds, most of us appreciate cheeses, butter over margarine, home made mayo, real whipped cream, and a range of full flavored foods. many appreciate what can be done with bacon. I can't understand why most people responding to the organic - inorganic milk thread drink skim or low-fat milk. I drink a fair amount of full everything milk and use it to make yogurt (adding more powdered full milk). Full milk tastes way, way better than skim or low fat (filth, I mean to me; and I can taste the difference). On the other hand, I eat very little in the way of fried foods, use little oil in my cooking, and, overall, have a healthy diet. But I'd quit drinking milk if I had to drink that watery stuff. Why do you drink skim or lowfat milk????

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    adamshoe RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 21, 2008 05:30 PM

    Maybe people are just drawn to it's lovely and appetizing hue! Who wouldn't want to gulp down an icy cold glass of bluish-grey milk-like refreshment? I'm a one percenter myself and now 2 percent milk tastes like half & half to me! (Although I love my heavy cream; can't imagine cooking without it.) Adam

    1. viperlush RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 21, 2008 05:54 PM

      Because that is what they were raised on and are continuing the cycle? My BF grew up drinking skim and I have gotten him up to 2%, but he will not drink whole (what I was raised on) because it is too "thick/rich/sweet/whatever". Because he is a serious milk drinker, what he drinks is what we buy. I

      2 Replies
      1. re: viperlush
        happybellynh RE: viperlush Jan 23, 2009 08:29 AM

        In viperlush's vein... CI did a milk taste test a few years back, and they found no conclusion as to what tasted better, objectively speaking. skim,1-2%, whole- all were equally likely to be the 'best' because they 'tasted like milk should'. When they asked everyone what they grew up drinking, they found that people were something like 80% likely to have a preference for whatever their childhood milk was- apparently that's when you learn what 'milk should taste like'.

        1. re: happybellynh
          yayadave RE: happybellynh Feb 12, 2009 11:22 AM

          I remember seeing the results of a test done with cookies. People liked the cookies depending on what they grew up with, made with butter, margarine, or some "butter substitute."

      2. porker RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 21, 2008 06:25 PM

        Slightly off topic, but thought you mike like this, Sam...Full FULL milk being illegal in Canada...


        2 Replies
        1. re: porker
          Sam Fujisaka RE: porker Oct 21, 2008 06:32 PM

          Skim/lowfat milk: use an inflatable doll

          Whole milk: the ChowHound's alternative

          "And he welcomed some jail time. "That would be a holiday ... because milking the cows and battling the government is a lot of work," ... priceless!!

          1. re: porker
            earthygoat RE: porker Oct 22, 2008 05:09 PM

            I'd like to clarify that the above article refers to raw milk, not full fat milk. Full fat milk (3.25%) can be bought legally in every Canadian grocery store.

          2. c
            cimui RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 21, 2008 06:39 PM

            hmm, i'll try to answer this: i love full fat everything, as well. i mostly eat full fat yogurt, butter, cheese, you name it. however, i love skim milk for gulping when i'm really thirsty and if i want to drink milk prior to speaking or singing. (full fat milk 'sticks' to your throat, so isn't as thirst quenching and affects your voice). i use full fat milk for hot cocoa and coffee. nothing at all against whole milk, but skim milk is good for some things!

            1. k
              kobetobiko RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 21, 2008 06:44 PM

              My mom has lactose intolerant but she said that skim milk seemed to have less negative impact to her. Whole milk, on the other hand, made her sick. That's all she can handle.

              That's why some people drink skim milk.

              2 Replies
              1. re: kobetobiko
                wanderinglady RE: kobetobiko Oct 23, 2008 10:21 AM

                Same here - whole milk makes me sick. I used to drink skim milk, but had to compromise when I moved in with my sister, so I now drink 1%. I really don't eat much dairy in the first place, but when I eat cheese, etc., I usually get the whole fat version.

                1. re: kobetobiko
                  Karl S RE: kobetobiko Oct 27, 2008 05:42 PM

                  That probably has to do with homogenization than lactose - the lower the amount of fat, the higher amount of lactose. Most people I know with lactose intolerance have an even worse time with skim milk. Homogenization causes other digestive problems - creamline (non homogenized milk) is easier to digest. Unfortunately, even skim milk in this country is homogenized, strange as that sounds.

                2. Gio RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 21, 2008 06:54 PM

                  Some people drink skim milk, etc. on doctor's orders. Some people don't drink milk at all because of an intolerance. Milk of Magnesia does not count.

                  1 Reply
                  1. re: Gio
                    yayadave RE: Gio Feb 12, 2009 11:32 AM

                    From an article in the Washington Post: Going Where Darwin Feared to Tread

                    "The ability to digest milk in adulthood, called lactase persistence, exists in more than 90 percent of Scandinavians but only 1 percent of Chinese. It is much more common in places where cattle, goat and camel herding are common -- and milk is a big part of the diet -- than in populations (such as hunter-gatherers) where herding is more rare."

                    For what it's worth.

                  2. applehome RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 21, 2008 07:06 PM

                    Presumably, on a daily basis, we're limiting ourselves to a given amount of calories and a given amount of calories from fat... a given amount of saturated fat, etcetc... all under the banner of being healthy. So for any given total saturated fat, if you have less in your milk, you can have more butter! More bacon! Not lean out the brisket quite so much...

                    It's just an engineering problem... it's a trade-off. Drink skim, eat more butter - or in my case, I don't eat more, but I eat euro-fat butter (like Lurpak) instead of US.

                    4 Replies
                    1. re: applehome
                      Sam Fujisaka RE: applehome Oct 21, 2008 07:14 PM

                      Exactly, I agree. But I think that the quantities of whole milk that we drink would be compensated by something like one less french fry per week.

                      1. re: Sam Fujisaka
                        Sinicle RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 21, 2008 07:30 PM

                        I happen to like the taste of skim milk, but my main motivation is primarily to help control calories and fat ( just so I can eat something I really like.) And there is a big difference. Eight oz of whole milk has 150 cal and 8g fat; skim has 80 cal and no fat. This really is much more significant than 1 french fry per week. I'd rather save my calories and fat for bacon.

                        1. re: Sinicle
                          KevinB RE: Sinicle Oct 21, 2008 08:25 PM

                          Yep, that was my motivation when I ballooned to 250 lbs. I drink 1% now, and even 2% feels like I''m drinking cream. Skim is still too watery for me. I can't even put cream in my coffee; it's just too rich. I like my bacon though!

                      2. re: applehome
                        turqmut RE: applehome Oct 23, 2008 09:00 AM

                        I agree with applehome. I drink skim because it tastes maybe 70% as good as 2% to me. I've never found reduced-fat cheese that I'll even eat, so I've got to cut back somewhere. Plus you do get used to "Blue John," as my grandma calls it. (Though she definitely thinks I'm getting ripped off when I buy it:)

                      3. a
                        akq RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 21, 2008 07:47 PM

                        For drinking straight, I prefer the taste and texture of skim milk to drink. 2%, whole milk, etc. leave a film in my mouth, weird milk-fat deposits on my teeth, and give me more stomach problems than skim milk. The fat/calorie difference between skim and anything else is nice, but not the reason for me. If I had to drink full fat milk, I'd quit drinking milk straight at all. I just don't like it (and no, I didn't even like it as a kid, and yes, my family owned cows when I was a kid so I have had the "good" stuff...just didn't like it). For cooking, I find non-skim milks and full-fat creams don't bother me so much, in smallish doses.

                        4 Replies
                        1. re: akq
                          Ruth Lafler RE: akq Oct 21, 2008 09:27 PM

                          Exactly. I find milk with fat to be cloying and not refreshing -- I drink nonfat milk by choice, because I prefer it. The fact that it's lower in calories is a bonus.

                          Taste is subjective. If you prefer full-fat milk, fine. But I don't understand the need to assert a preference as based on some kind of absolute, nor the desire to belittle people who have different preferences.

                          1. re: Ruth Lafler
                            GSM RE: Ruth Lafler Oct 22, 2008 05:14 AM

                            My sentiments exactly. Thank you Ruth.

                            1. re: GSM
                              DGresh RE: GSM Nov 7, 2008 05:33 AM

                              Yes I find the idea that we are sacrificing something by drinking skim ridiculous. I grew up on whole, switched to 1% when I was in my 20s for calorie reasons, switched to skim when I was in my 30s because, well, even more calorie reasons :) but now I cannot drink whole. It doesn't taste as "cold" and refreshing to me, and seems too sweet. And I love my butter and full fat cream cheese. My kids (after 2 years old) have only had skim and they can't drink anything else. They say it tastes "gross". Maybe I started based on the calories, but now I really prefer it.

                              1. re: DGresh
                                lifespan RE: DGresh Jan 23, 2009 05:37 AM

                                I agree. At this point, it's really a matter of preference. I prefer 2% over all other forms. And like DGresh, I have "experimented" with skim, 1%, and yes, even whole. (I grew up on whole, of course.) I know that fat content in milk promotes absorption of certain nutrients, and that seems like a GOOD idea, but I personally opt for 2%. It's the middle road.

                        2. ccbweb RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 21, 2008 07:55 PM

                          Personally (and no larger conclusions can really be drawn from this) I have a genetic disease that affects my digestion and absorption of nutrients and I've found through trial and error that 1% milk is the "sweet spot" for me in terms of the most calories with the most digestible nature.

                          I prefer whole milk, but it doesn't sit so well. On the other hand, full fat yogurt is quite good (though difficult to find anymore). In my house we eat Daisy Light sour cream because we can't tell the difference and it helps my wife keep the calorie count down (she eats a lot of sour cream). I also use half and half in my coffee (she uses Silk Soy Creamer).

                          We only do real whipped cream. She prefers whipped Earth Balance spread for putting on bread but we use unsalted organic butter for everything else. Our fridge has an entire shelf devoted to cheeses.

                          We only eat full fat ice cream (and the occasional sorbet, but for its sorbetness, not as an alternative to ice cream).

                          1 Reply
                          1. re: ccbweb
                            caliking RE: ccbweb Oct 21, 2008 09:19 PM

                            Well, I guess because too much of a good (any)thing will you.

                            If I wasn't much of a milk drinker, I would splurge when I did drink it and drink full milk. Way tastier than low-fat milk. But I am a big milk drinker (at least 2 cups a day) and I think I would have one foot in the grave if all of that was full milk.

                            I used to drink 2% milk before switching to skim. When I did switch, I lost 5lbs just by doing that alone. Drink full milk and die young or drink lowfat/skim and die a little later... I'm sure everyone feels differently... a matter of individual philosophy/perspective.

                            As far as bacon, or whipped cream go, I assume that most people do not indulge in either on a daily basis for similar reasons. The (clogged) arteries tend to scream for mercy with daily consumption of either. :)

                          2. manraysky RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 21, 2008 09:35 PM

                            As a kid, I had to drink a glass of whole milk with every meal, and I absolutely hated it. I thought it was vile, and could barely choke it down. I swore I'd never drink milk again once I got to be an adult. Then I tried a glass of skim milk, and I realized I actually liked it. A ice cold glass of skim milk is the perfect accompaniment to a brownie or chocolate chip cookie. But I still don't like whole milk, to me it feels like drinking a glass of heavy cream.

                            1. d
                              duck833 RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 21, 2008 09:35 PM

                              Have to cut down someplace, so non-fat or 1% is an ez alternative.

                              1. ipsedixit RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 21, 2008 10:40 PM

                                Uh, because skim tastes better?

                                Sort of like me asking why people have to eat on airplanes ...

                                1. hannaone RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 12:04 AM

                                  Sam, I scratch my head and wonder why people prefer milk colored water myself. That thin flavorless stuff is a complete turn off for me, if I want water I'll drink water.

                                  1 Reply
                                  1. re: hannaone
                                    Hue RE: hannaone Oct 22, 2008 04:44 AM

                                    AHHH yes a glass of white water please!!!

                                  2. Firegoat RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 04:57 AM

                                    I rarely drink milk (unless I get a sudden craving), but keep skim or 1% on hand for morning cereal. I taste the cereal, not so much the milk, and save a few calories for use on something i really enjoy.

                                    1. n
                                      nosh RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 05:07 AM

                                      As a kid, our family switched from whole milk down to 2% then finally skim, and I got used to it painlessly. I agree with those above who post that since they've become used to nonfat milk, the others taste "thick" or leave a cloying sensation. I go through a lot of milk, sometimes as much as a quart a day, so the fewer calories and less fat is a definite side benefit, but by now the nonfat is a definite preference. What nobody has mentioned so far is another nice aspect -- most of the time, nonfat is a dime or two cheaper per gallon. And I'm not a diet fanatic; I buy butter and don't keep margarine in the house, and while I understand they aren't great for me I drink regular soda and not the fake nocal stuff.

                                      1. d
                                        dalaimama RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 05:09 AM

                                        I prefer the taste of skim milk. As someone else mentioned, it depends on what you were raised on. I buy a small carton of whole milk whenever I am baking, but when you aren't used to it, it's just as hard to drink whole milk for me as drinking skim milk is for you. As far as organic, organic skim milk tastes MUCH better than regular skim. It's not that bluish substance.

                                        Ultimately, I don't think a choice of skim over whole is somehow "un-Chowish". It's a personal choice that can be made for a variety of reasons from taste to health.

                                        1. c
                                          carey24 RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 05:16 AM

                                          Cause if I didn't I'd weigh 600 lbs.

                                          Everyone's metabolism is different. I HAVE to eat very low fat and exercise in order to maintain my weight.

                                          1. f
                                            filth RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 05:30 AM

                                            Despite the fact that alkapal and maria lorraine have concluded that, never having met me, my milk tasting ability is subpar, I prefer fat free for regular milk drinking. For certain applications such as bechamel, custards, etc. I prefer whole. However, I like the wateriness of skim for drinking plain.

                                            FWIW, I also like Diet Coke better because it tastes less sweet and cloying to me.

                                            1. c
                                              cimui RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 05:42 AM

                                              sam, by the way, why stop there? why do you insist on drinking whole milk -- that washed out nastiness -- when you could be drinking cream?

                                              5 Replies
                                              1. re: cimui
                                                pinkprimp RE: cimui Oct 22, 2008 10:37 AM

                                                LOL - reminds me of a time when my friend double dared me to order a "short, steamed whipped cream hot chocolate" at Starbucks. It was RICH!! I could barely drink more than half before feeling like I had to throw up.

                                                1. re: pinkprimp
                                                  cimui RE: pinkprimp Oct 22, 2008 10:50 AM

                                                  yeah, most sweet drinks at Starbucks are pretty intense! still, not as bad as a college roommate of mine who used to microwave cartons of Ben & Jerry's phish food ice cream until warm, and then drink it by the pint. we were all very impressed at the time.

                                                  1. re: cimui
                                                    ccbweb RE: cimui Oct 22, 2008 12:06 PM

                                                    I think the rich part was the cup full of whipping cream....(somewhat sweet, too, with the chocolate....but the cream thing....yikes).

                                                    1. re: cimui
                                                      pinkprimp RE: cimui Oct 23, 2008 11:19 AM

                                                      Yes, the rich part was the cup of whipping cream - but the microwaved pint of Ben & Jerry's!!!!!!

                                                      (Half of me wants to try it...the other half is repulsed!)

                                                      1. re: pinkprimp
                                                        cimui RE: pinkprimp Oct 23, 2008 11:27 AM

                                                        you'll never know unless you try it.... ;)

                                                        (boy, i really mourn the loss of my college metabolism.)

                                                2. rockandroller1 RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 05:46 AM

                                                  I don't drink milk, so this is an easy way for me to cut saturated fat. I use it in my coffee, if I eat cold cereal I use it, and occasionally use a little in cooking and it works just fine for me. As another poster put it, this makes more room in my daily diet for other saturated fats which mean more to me, like real butter or whatever. You have to have SOME moderation and for me this is an easy way to get it.

                                                  I actually think milk with more fat is completely gross and cannot consume it now, it just seems like solid cream to me and completely turns me off.

                                                  1. s
                                                    swsidejim RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 05:51 AM

                                                    I have no use for skim or lowfat milk, I find it tastes watered down & pretty bad. I find the blueish hue of the lowfat milks that another poster mentioned unappealing. I also dont count calories, so I dont care about that aspect of the "issue".

                                                    I rarely drink milk, but we go through 2+ gallons of non-organic whole milk a week for our 2 year old daughter, and the cooking I do(recipes are just not the same with the lowfat milks).

                                                    1. s
                                                      sadiefox RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 06:37 AM

                                                      Personally, I find milk in any form gross, but can manage stomach skim milk. I use it for cooking when needed, but usually buy lowfat in case I need to choke down the leftovers on my cereal :) . Normally, I prefer soy milk.

                                                      1. ArikaDawn RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 07:46 AM

                                                        When I am thirsty the last thing I want is whole milk. To me it registers as heavy, almost a foodstuff and doesn't satisfy thirst very well. Skim I find refreshing. Since becoming pregnant I've moved up to 2% at my docs recommendation, but won't go higher than that because of the discomfort it can cause with pregnancy. I don't drink a lot, maybe a cup a day, but have no desire to drink whole milk.


                                                        1. Sam Fujisaka RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 08:18 AM

                                                          Milk appears to be two drinks. Skim and low fat are, to many, a light refreshing drink. A skim/lowfat drinker would find whole milk heavy and unrefreshing. Whole milk is used more in cooking and as a drink by those of us who drink milk, but perhaps less than the skim/lowfat drinkers. The whole milk drinkers seem to find skim/lowfat watery and tasteless (as is the case for me). Just a learning hypothesis not meant to belittle anyone.

                                                          2 Replies
                                                          1. re: Sam Fujisaka
                                                            applehome RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 10:10 AM

                                                            I had a coworker, whose father was a famous doctor that insisted that drinking cow's milk was harmful, even toxic to humans. The idea that a natural product meant to nurture a new born calf into a 500 pound heifer, was actually good for human consumption, went against both common sense and scientific evidence, according to him. Milk had never touched my friend's lips. This doctor isn't alone - lots of scientists and doctors feel this to be true. Here's a web site full of people that think milk is a cause of everything from Crohn's to Diabetes and even Osteoporosis (bone loss due to milk ingestion...). Supposedly, heart attacks, strokes and high blood pressure occur six times more often in milk drinkers. It's worse than ever, thanks to modern additives - hormones, antibiotics.


                                                            I drink only skim and low fat, and then only once in a while - cartons regularly go bad in our house since our kids grew out of Frosted Flakes. But I make up for all that with butter and cheese - the latter, especially. I couldn't live without cheese - which is every bit as bad.

                                                            We are an overly milked culture. It's another area, like corn, where our modern mass marketing techniques have taken us down a road that in the end, may not be so good. I grew up with almost no milk in Japan, only yogurt (especially the sour drink made from yogurt) - but it's there now - large dairy farms and everything. Perhaps the lactose tolerance issue for Asians isn't as big as it used to be - they're evolving, biologically and otherwise, to tolerate our unhealthy western foods.

                                                            1. re: applehome
                                                              Ruth Lafler RE: applehome Oct 22, 2008 12:45 PM

                                                              Ah yes, the pseudo-scientific false equivalence rears its head. Cows' milk is for feeding baby cows; baby cows grow to be bigger than baby humans, therefore cow's milk is nutritionally inappropriate for baby humans. Except nutritionally, cows' milk is pretty similar to human milk, which is the perfect food for baby humans. Now if we were talking elephant seal milk, that would be a different story ....

                                                          2. r
                                                            rochfood RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 08:26 AM

                                                            Because it tastes good. Whole milk tastes like cream to me. I'm not eating peaches and cream for breakfast. My dad (product of the depession) drank powdered milk. Now, that is watery. So, I guess skim tastes delicious compared to that. Plus, obviously skim milk has less calories. It is a product that is "low fat" that I drink for it's own sake. Even if whole milk were equal in calories I would not drink it. I do not feel I am missing anything by drinking skim, it is preferred. My 2 year old boy drinks whole milk, and I think strangely of adults who drink whole. Like they never grew up or something. Adults who drink whole milk seem "childish" to me. Sorry if I offend but I have "childish" habits as well, I put ketchup on my hot dogs. So it all evens out. One persons trash is another person's treasure.

                                                            1. Jacquilynne RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 09:12 AM

                                                              To be honest, I don't drink milk at all. But I cook with and put skim milk on my cereal.

                                                              As a child, I was fat so my mother started me on drinking skim milk instead of the 2% the rest of my family drank. The idea of 2% milk now gives me the heebie jeebies. So rich! Eww! My father feels the same way about Whole Milk.

                                                              It didn't work, really -- I'm still a fat adult. I suppose I might have been more fat if I used 2% milk.

                                                              I could train myself back into liking richer milk the same way I was trained out of it in the first place (replacing a quarter of the regular with skim, then a half, then three quarters, etc.) but really, why bother? I genuinely prefer skim milk at this point, and it's got less fat in it.

                                                              1 Reply
                                                              1. re: Jacquilynne
                                                                MMRuth RE: Jacquilynne Oct 22, 2008 09:21 AM

                                                                I also grew up drinking skim milk after a certain age, and the thought of drinking whole milk, or even two percent, is repulsive to me. I do use whole milk when cooking, but skim milk on my cereal. Don't really drink milk any more, and I use half and half in my coffee.

                                                              2. danhole RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 09:18 AM

                                                                For health reasons my DH drinks skim milk, and uses it in his cereal and coffee. I am not a big milk drinker, myself, and have a tendency towards lactose intolerance from time to time. But when I am making certain dishes I will not use the skim milk. I either go get some whole milk or at least the 2% and then add sour cream or cream cheese, depending on what I have on hand or what I am making. Some things just don't come out right with skim. I am in the camp of those that if I am going to drink milk I do like the organic 2% flavored milk, especially strawberry!

                                                                1. cassoulady RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 09:39 AM

                                                                  I grew up on skim/1% milk. Then when I started cooking, I bought whole milk for recipes. I dont think I had tasted it prior to that. Yum. now skim milk is too watery for me. I rarely drink milk though, a few times a year, so when i do it is whole and I dont add dairy to coffee.

                                                                  1 Reply
                                                                  1. re: cassoulady
                                                                    swsidejim RE: cassoulady Oct 22, 2008 09:41 AM

                                                                    I was raised on 2% milk, and once I found whole milk there was no turning back. If I want water I will drink a glass of water not lowfat milk. :-D

                                                                  2. c
                                                                    CrazyOne RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 09:48 AM

                                                                    Hm. I buy skim milk to put in my cereal. That's the only thing I use it for. I could start another thread called "Why in the world do adults drink milk?" because I don't get that. I stopped drinking milk as a drink years ago, probably 20 years almost (which would be when I was in my late teens). I don't find it appealing as a drink at all. But some still do, and clearly those who do have a range of tastes. When I did drink milk growing up, it was 2%, but now even 2% can feel like overkill on my cereal, and I'm not interested in drinking it.

                                                                    I don't even always have milk in the house. (During the week I eat my cereal at work.) If we're going to cook/bake something that calls for milk, we'll try to get whole milk because presumably that's what the recipe intended, unless it says otherwise. We usually have half and half around for coffee, so that can be used in a pinch, or skim milk if it's there could be used in a pinch, knowing it will affect the flavor perhaps.

                                                                    I can get into an occasional milk-based drink, like a milkshake, but is it milk or is it really more ice cream? I'd say it's more like the latter.

                                                                    1. Chew on That RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 09:58 AM

                                                                      I disagree. I actually like skim milk better. I don't like my milk to be that rich or thick. It turns my stomach that way.

                                                                      1. Sam Fujisaka RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 10:13 AM

                                                                        Low and skim milk drinkers: I meant no offense when I posted!!!!! Nor was I making some kind of point. I simply had a misperception that people drank low/skim to reduce their fat intake. I WAS WRONG AND WILL GO OUT AND WHIP MYSELF WHILE LYING ON A BED OF NAILS!!! People drink skim/lowfat because they prefer the taste and texture.

                                                                        3 Replies
                                                                        1. re: Sam Fujisaka
                                                                          cimui RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 10:25 AM

                                                                          AND it's REFRESHING!!!!! =P

                                                                          Sam, no need to whip yourself on a bed of nails. Just go drink some skim milk.

                                                                          And thank you for providing us with yet another entertaining thread.

                                                                          1. re: cimui
                                                                            rockandroller1 RE: cimui Oct 22, 2008 10:30 AM

                                                                            Dang, I was hoping for the whipping and possibly some pictures. that aside, your perception IS correct for some of us, several people answered as I do that it's a good way to cut a small corner on one's saturated fat intake.

                                                                          2. re: Sam Fujisaka
                                                                            akq RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 10:45 AM

                                                                            No worries, Sam. We skim milk drinkers (like diet soda drinkers) encounter these misperceptions a lot, so maybe get a little defensive.

                                                                          3. s
                                                                            sadiefox RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 10:40 AM

                                                                            A local dairy near me sells cartons of "rich and creamy 4% milk!" Ugh! I don't think you could pay me to drink that stuff :)

                                                                            1. n
                                                                              nc213 RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 11:10 AM

                                                                              I absolutely prefer the taste of skim. I find whole to be thick and I feel like I just taste fat. Occasionally I like 1% on my cereal for a change, but I find it too rich to drink on its own. i defintely prefer butter to substitutes and full-fat cheeses, etc. Maybe I've just been drinking skim so long I've gotten used to it?

                                                                              1. KaimukiMan RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 11:31 AM


                                                                                In the early 60s my dad had gallstones. The doctor told him to cut ALL unnecessary fats from his diet. Out went the deep fryer, out went bacon, all meat in our house was broiled or roasted, and we switched to skim milk, which -back then- pretty much meant powdered skim milk. Growing up it was what I thought milk was "supposed" to taste like; and I drank gallons of it. No soda in our house. Water, Milk, OJ. Those were the choices.

                                                                                Oddly enough, while i considered drinking the left over half and half a treat after one of my grandmother's bridge club meetings, I couldn't stand the taste or mouth feel of whole milk.

                                                                                Now I don't drink milk at all. I don't like the taste, drinking a lot of it makes me feel ill, and if i drink it regularly i break out (acne). No wonder the dairy association stopped those ridiculous "every body needs milk" ads. Lots of people don't. So I think that people who choose skimmed milk are probably choosing it for a variety of reasons. Certainly cutting calories is among them, but so is taste.

                                                                                1. r
                                                                                  Rick RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 05:43 PM

                                                                                  To be honest I feel the difference more than I taste the difference. Whole milk feels thick and heavy and is rich, not something I want to drink more than a few ounces of. With my nice big slice of cake I need something that I can drink a lot of and skim milk fits that bill perfectly! Since I don't feel like I'm being deprived anything by drinking skim milk, it doesn't hurt to save on the fat and calories either.

                                                                                  1. pikawicca RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 05:59 PM

                                                                                    I find that Organic Valley 1% milk has that clean dairy taste that I remember from fresh cow's milk back in my youth. I won't touch any other low fat milk, however. Most milk here in the States is very bad: It tastes nothing like what milk tasted like 50 years ago. Like so many other commercial foods here, milk is just blah. Most consumers don't have a clue what it's supposed to taste like, and probably would hate the real thing, fresh from a cow. Put some fake strawberry flavoring in it, and the consumer is happy.

                                                                                    1. johnb RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 22, 2008 06:39 PM

                                                                                      I recall reading, a long time ago, something to the effect that milk has the peculiar property that one comes to prefer whatever fat level he/she has been drinking for a week or two, and abhor other fat levels. If so, the preferences folks have been stating here are really based on habit more than anything else.

                                                                                      I'm a 2% man myself, and vaguely recall not liking it so much at first when I stepped down from 4%, but now I don't even think about it. I hate skimmed milk tho, and insist on full fat buttermilk, cottage cheese, and yogurt; the "fat-free" stuff isn't worth eating, IMO. Maybe I'll try 4% milk again.

                                                                                      13 Replies
                                                                                      1. re: johnb
                                                                                        pikawicca RE: johnb Oct 22, 2008 07:04 PM

                                                                                        Try 2% Fage yogurt.

                                                                                        1. re: pikawicca
                                                                                          Sam Fujisaka RE: pikawicca Oct 22, 2008 07:06 PM

                                                                                          Try my home-made!

                                                                                          1. re: pikawicca
                                                                                            Miss Needle RE: pikawicca Oct 22, 2008 08:04 PM

                                                                                            Yes, I totally prefer Fage 2% over any full-fat yogurt I've had, including homemade (though I haven't tried Sam's). And I prefer Fage 2% over Fage whole milk because their whole milk yogurt doesn't taste like yogurt anymore -- it tastes like sour cream.

                                                                                            1. re: Miss Needle
                                                                                              Sam Fujisaka RE: Miss Needle Oct 22, 2008 09:20 PM

                                                                                              Miss Needle and pikawicca, you''re always welcome to drop by!!! My yogurt is thick, a bit tart in the sense of the flavor of yogurt, no sweetness other than that of whole milk.....

                                                                                              1. re: Sam Fujisaka
                                                                                                poptart RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 23, 2008 07:46 AM

                                                                                                I don't drink milk, never liked it that way, but do use it to make yogurt. For that, I get 2% milk. But I confess that my yogurt is not as good as the Fage 2%. Even when I strain it! Sam, how do you make your yogurt thick? Perhaps because of using the whole milk? I also add dried milk to my yogurt to make it thicker. It helps, but...still, it aint no Fage.

                                                                                                1. re: poptart
                                                                                                  Sam Fujisaka RE: poptart Oct 23, 2008 08:05 AM

                                                                                                  I use whole milk and powdered whole milk for yogurt that comes out very thick and delicious.

                                                                                                  1. re: Sam Fujisaka
                                                                                                    johnb RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 23, 2008 06:14 PM

                                                                                                    I stumbled on a yogurt once, in Rio, that was so good I brought home a couple of containers on the plane and used it as a culture to make my own, preserving a little from each batch for the next. It was pretty good for a while, over several batches, but finally some party pooper blue cheese spores that must have been hanging around in my fridge got in and spoiled things.

                                                                                                    This thread has inspired me to try making my own again. Batch one is now sitting on the stove with towels over it to keep it warm. I used cultured buttermilk as a starter, so tomorrow morning we'll see what, if anything, we have.

                                                                                                    1. re: johnb
                                                                                                      Sam Fujisaka RE: johnb Oct 23, 2008 06:42 PM

                                                                                                      Great!! Making yogurt is one of my regular every two week tasks. Five liters at a time. And every several batches I have to go buy a couple of new small, unflavored containers to start anew. Abracos hermao!

                                                                                                      1. re: Sam Fujisaka
                                                                                                        poptart RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 23, 2008 08:00 PM

                                                                                                        Thanks for the inspiration.....I will try using both whole milk and whole dried milk (have been using 2% with nonfat dry) if I can find. I didn't know you could make yogurt from buttermilk..how does that work?
                                                                                                        Fermentation is a very interesting thing. I just made my first batch of saurkraut and hope to experiment with sourdough in the future! :-)

                                                                                                      2. re: johnb
                                                                                                        alkapal RE: johnb Oct 24, 2008 04:33 PM

                                                                                                        i wonder why people love blue cheese, but not blue yogurt! hey, what gives? ;-)

                                                                                                        1. re: alkapal
                                                                                                          johnb RE: alkapal Oct 26, 2008 06:41 PM

                                                                                                          If you had tasted this stuff, you'd understand.

                                                                                                          1. re: johnb
                                                                                                            alkapal RE: johnb Oct 27, 2008 04:10 AM

                                                                                                            oh, i think i do indeed understand. you had mold that needed a shave, right?

                                                                                            2. re: johnb
                                                                                              dolores RE: johnb Oct 23, 2008 07:53 AM

                                                                                              Well, not my habit. I switched to skim many years ago, and love it. I hate whole milk.

                                                                                              But if I could live on the highest butter fat ice cream in the world, I would.

                                                                                              There's always one who doesn't fit the profile.

                                                                                            3. g
                                                                                              gourmanda RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 23, 2008 09:29 AM

                                                                                              Why? Because it is delicious and refreshing. I drink 5-6, 8-oz glasses of skim every morning because it quenches my thirst and fits the bill in the morning (for me ) better than plain old water. Whole milk for drinking tastes much too heavy to me; I'm happy to cook w/ whole milk but won't buy a separate container of it just to cook with. I suppose it's what you grew up with, what your daily consumption is along with why you are consuming--for refreshment/thirst quencher? or for savoring the full fat flavor of whole milk?

                                                                                              1 Reply
                                                                                              1. re: gourmanda
                                                                                                chowser RE: gourmanda Oct 23, 2008 10:19 AM

                                                                                                Wow, you drink 40-48 oz of milk every morning??? Is it over some time or do you just down it all at once?

                                                                                              2. cayjohan RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 23, 2008 09:57 AM

                                                                                                I really can't drink much milk and really don't want to. I do keep it around for cooking, and occasionally snitch a couple of ounces of whole, cream on top, local milk from my co-op. So very good. If I am going to ingest it, I want it pretty much as it came out of the cow.

                                                                                                As a kid, I used to drink the stuff that my neighbors' cows produced, often fresh from the cow. It spoiled me for any other milk, lactose issues notwithstanding.


                                                                                                1. c
                                                                                                  cheesecake17 RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 23, 2008 10:20 AM

                                                                                                  I grew up drinking 1% or skim milk, and I recently switched to soy or almond milk. Until recently, I only drank skim because I would rather save the calories for food rather than a drink. I can't tolerate milk- but when I did drink it whole milk tasted too thick- like drinking melted ice cream. If people are going to make whole milk a regular part of their diet, it's important to keep in mind that it does contain a lot of fat and calories.

                                                                                                  1. s
                                                                                                    Sherri RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 23, 2008 10:37 AM

                                                                                                    Sam, in the seventy replies I've read, the answer to your question falls into two main camps: flavor ("thick and creamy" VS "refreshing") and lowered fat content.

                                                                                                    Some years ago a friend in the dairy industry told me that when fat is removed from milk, additives are used to compensate for the altered texture. I knew that I had been trying to lower my total caloric intake in easy ways, so had always chosen 1% or 2% milk as the no-brainer option when what I really wanted was the taste of real milk. I have since reversed my policy and choose whole milk.

                                                                                                    Michael Pollen's book IN DEFENSE OF FOOD backs up my friend's observation. Page 153-154, Pollen writes: "......... To make dairy products low fat, it's not enough to remove the fat. You then have to go to great lengths to preserve the body or creamy texture by working in all kinds of food additives. In the case of low-fat or skim milk, that usually means adding powdered milk. But powdered milk contains oxidized cholesterol, which scientists believe is much worse for your arteries than ordinary cholesterol, so food makers compensate by adding antioxidants, further complicating what had been a simple one-ingredient whole food. Also, removing the fat makes it that much harder for your body to absorb the fat-soluable vitamins that are one of the reasons to drink milk in the first place."

                                                                                                    Food for thought.

                                                                                                    7 Replies
                                                                                                    1. re: Sherri
                                                                                                      pikawicca RE: Sherri Oct 23, 2008 02:23 PM

                                                                                                      This is not true in the case of all yogurts. Greek-style yogurts like Fage are drained to make them thick -- no icky fillers.

                                                                                                      1. re: Sherri
                                                                                                        ccbweb RE: Sherri Oct 23, 2008 02:26 PM

                                                                                                        And, of course, its not universally true....one must read the label as always.

                                                                                                        1. re: Sherri
                                                                                                          mselectra RE: Sherri Oct 27, 2008 08:32 AM

                                                                                                          I've switched to whole milk since trying to stop buying products with non-sustainable palm oil (eg the palmitate that's used in non-whole milk). But that's not a taste (or health) issue, but a conservation one (since non-sustainable palm oil is the main reason orangutans [for one species] will likely be extinct in the wild in the next few years) so not really appropriate point for CH, but thought it complemented Sherri's post.

                                                                                                          Mostly use it for cappuccinos or occasionally drink with cookies or cake or peanut butter sandwiches. I'm in the camp that doesn't find milk of any kind thirst-quenching or refreshing, but rather tastes good with some other foods. Taste is so personal, this is an interesting thread highlighting that.

                                                                                                          1. re: mselectra
                                                                                                            alkapal RE: mselectra Oct 27, 2008 08:40 AM

                                                                                                            vitamin A palmitate does not appear to be related in any way to palm oil. http://www.dairy-house.com/index.php?...

                                                                                                            1. re: alkapal
                                                                                                              mselectra RE: alkapal Oct 27, 2008 08:58 AM

                                                                                                              It's confusing and I'm no expert and probably shouldn't have brought it up here -- but apparently it IS derived from palm oil when added to milk. I didn't spend a lot of time looking for the best links, but the first here is from Rainforest Action Network and the second, that I found with a very quick search, is from an industry webpage:

                                                                                                              "NOTE: Vitamin A Palmitate, Isopropyl Palmitate, and Retinyl Palmitate ARE palm oil":

                                                                                                              From a manufacturer of a non-fat powdered milk, "Mix'n Drink technically is not a source of palm oil, even though the source of Vitamin A palmitate is palm oil (because it is so stable). Palm oil is derived from the tropical palm tree.":


                                                                                                              Not to belabor this -- but there are companies who have pledged to use only sustainable palm oil (including, I believe, Organic Valley), so the point isn't to stop buying all products that use it. I could share lots more links on this conservation issue, but I don't think they belong on chowhound.

                                                                                                              I really didn't mean to get off-topic here, it's just been an interesting and relevant thread for me, since I've been getting used to whole milk again.

                                                                                                              1. re: mselectra
                                                                                                                alkapal RE: mselectra Oct 28, 2008 06:40 AM

                                                                                                                it *is* confusing, as i've looked at many sites. clarity in writing is not ruling the day on these sites. what i glean, so far, vitamin a is joined with the fatty acid palmitate to stabilize it. (it also makes the vitamin more bioavailable being linked to a fatty acid.)

                                                                                                                in some sites, it seems to indicate that vitamin a palmitate is naturally occurring in dairy, among other things, like liver, eggs, etc. but, the "palmitate" word is clearly derived from reference to the "pith of the palm" -- and thus the palmitate name indicates that the product fatty acid is in fact a palm derivative.

                                                                                                                scientist hounds, please help us understand what *are* the facts!

                                                                                                                1. re: alkapal
                                                                                                                  mselectra RE: alkapal Nov 6, 2008 07:41 AM

                                                                                                                  Hi Alkapal -- I looked around just a little more, and I think perhaps it can be derived from animal sources, but that for the most part, for dairy at least, it's derived from palm oil, I'm assuming it's cheaper. And like you said, the name seems obviously to come from "palm". [I'm no scientist.] For me, to be on the safe side, I try to avoid it or buy from companies that have signed on to the Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil, http://www.rspo.org/

                                                                                                                  There's been a huge boom in palm oil production, partly fueled by the anti-transfat movement, and it's been really important in Indonesia, which can use the economic growth, which, unfortunately, has been encouraged in the worst ways from a conservation standpoint.

                                                                                                                  On an even more unrelated note (considering this is a milk thread), to me another interesting aspect is that a vegan diet is not, necessarily, an animal-friendly diet at all, since palm oil is used in place of butter in much vegan food. Palm oil (unsustainable) is much much more harmful and cruel to animals than, say, butter from a local farmer who takes care of her cows -- or, actually, butter produced pretty much any way, now that I think about it.

                                                                                                                  Many brands of soymilk have that palmitate, too....

                                                                                                                  A good excuse for me to get more whole milk and butter in my diet!

                                                                                                        2. m
                                                                                                          mmuch RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 23, 2008 10:39 AM

                                                                                                          Well, it took me forever to get used to it. I grew up on 2% and sometimes whole. But my husband would only do the skim-so I tried it slowly for him, and for me-for my health....I drink a TON of milk, so it made sense to me to try. Anyway, it took me a few weeks, but now it's all I will buy. They say it takes something like 21 days to get used to/like something. I don't know if that's true, but it was in my case.

                                                                                                          1. Scargod RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 23, 2008 11:17 AM

                                                                                                            When I am thirsty, why would I want to drink milk? I drink water or have a beer.
                                                                                                            Yes, all our metabolisms are different. I can drink whole milk, but again, I don't. I have it on cereal or cook with it. There are ten other things I would drink before I drank a glass of milk!
                                                                                                            Do a lot of you really drink milk if you are thirsty?

                                                                                                            9 Replies
                                                                                                            1. re: Scargod
                                                                                                              ccbweb RE: Scargod Oct 23, 2008 11:20 AM

                                                                                                              Sure, I do sometimes.

                                                                                                              1. re: Scargod
                                                                                                                cimui RE: Scargod Oct 23, 2008 11:23 AM

                                                                                                                i drink all of the above when i'm thirsty. sadly, they have yet to invent beer with added calcium.

                                                                                                                1. re: Scargod
                                                                                                                  Sinicle RE: Scargod Oct 23, 2008 11:25 AM

                                                                                                                  Yes, I do. I don't like still water, don't imbibe soft drinks so it is usually my "home made" Soda King seltzer. Although I admit a cold beer is great on a hot day, alcohol is dehydrating so rationally speaking it is not a good "thirst-quencher." But hey, this is CH we deal in taste, not facts.

                                                                                                                  1. re: Scargod
                                                                                                                    dolores RE: Scargod Oct 23, 2008 11:43 AM

                                                                                                                    Actually, no.

                                                                                                                    But after that last cookie or piece of chocolate at the end of the night, nothing tastes better than a bit of milk, blue or not.

                                                                                                                    1. re: Scargod
                                                                                                                      mmuch RE: Scargod Oct 23, 2008 12:02 PM

                                                                                                                      Actually-and strangely enough, nothing quenches my thirst after a long night of drinking alcohol, than a glass of ice cold milk. I swear it makes me feel better too- well, rehydrated anyway.

                                                                                                                      1. re: Scargod
                                                                                                                        applehome RE: Scargod Oct 23, 2008 01:05 PM

                                                                                                                        I don't know if this qualifies as thirst or just plain desperation, but the other reason to make sure you got milk? Heat. When you are forced to try that roasted habenero, piquin, tweaked with pure capsaicin salsa that your cousin thought would be a great combo, make sure you have some nice, fatty whole milk around. And don't even think about beer or water. Maybe ice cream... Helado, por favor...

                                                                                                                        1. re: applehome
                                                                                                                          Scargod RE: applehome Oct 23, 2008 03:32 PM

                                                                                                                          Well, I've gota lota excuses for eatin' ice cream! As for the others: why not take calcium? When it's really hot and you need to replenish, AKA re-hydrate), why not a low alcohol content beer , AKA, "lite" beer? Orange juice, sports drink or lime in soda water? I don't drink "pop".

                                                                                                                          I know, I'm fightin' a losin' battle. Milk makes me phlegm up....

                                                                                                                          1. re: Scargod
                                                                                                                            Passadumkeg RE: Scargod Oct 23, 2008 04:08 PM

                                                                                                                            Tex, you just miss Longhorn milk! Very similar to Pearl Beer, so i hear, which, I feel, may explain a lot. Whole milk is like Cadillac Mtn. Stout! Try some buttermilk w/ TexMex, it's really good!

                                                                                                                        2. re: Scargod
                                                                                                                          JennS RE: Scargod Oct 27, 2008 03:27 PM

                                                                                                                          I love milk when I'm really thirsty -- ice cold skim milk is the best. I drank whole milk exclusively until I got mono in high school. My throat was so sore all I could drink were really thin beverages like water and skim milk with ice. I never went back to whole milk, except in coffee and for cooking.

                                                                                                                        3. l
                                                                                                                          laliz RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 23, 2008 04:00 PM

                                                                                                                          I grew up drinking whole milk, by the gallon. Now I couldn't drink a glass of whole milk without having serious gagging issues. It leaves a greasy very unpleasant film in my mouth and throat.

                                                                                                                          I seldom drink milk, keep soy milk, canned evaporated milk, dry powdered milk in the house and only rarely buy 'real' milk for anything. (drink coffee black)

                                                                                                                          On the rare occassion I do have some skim milk (only skim please) I insist on having it in a glass over ice. The only way I can get it down.

                                                                                                                          I also MUCH prefer Diet Coke to the sugared version, another conversion.

                                                                                                                          I also like ketchup on hot dogs, but don't drink milk as a beverage.

                                                                                                                          1. g
                                                                                                                            givemecarbs RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 23, 2008 05:15 PM

                                                                                                                            I love whole milk, it is my basic comfort food, especially when I am pressed for time, but I've always loved my milk. I do have low-fat milk in my fridge for others and I will drink it when I run out of the whole stuff, but skim milk tastes like they took the chalk remnants at the bottom of the chalkboard and mixed them with water. What a travesty and a crime against nature!

                                                                                                                            1. h
                                                                                                                              himbeer RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 23, 2008 06:41 PM

                                                                                                                              I only use milk in tea, mashed potatoes, and baking. So I buy a cup container of nonfat, because anecdotally it doesn't go bad as quickly.

                                                                                                                              1. q
                                                                                                                                queencru RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 24, 2008 06:07 AM

                                                                                                                                I only use milk in coffee and a few cooking items. I can't really taste the difference between whole-fat and 1% (I hate skim) in coffee, so I will usually get 1-2% so I can limit my fat intake and still have the milkier coffee I tend to like. I can taste the difference when I put half and half into coffee and find it to be a little too fatty/heavy tasting to be tolerable. I find the taste of all milk disgusting when I drink it on its own.

                                                                                                                                1. KenWritez RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 25, 2008 04:47 AM

                                                                                                                                  I dislike skim milk, but I prefer 1% or 2% low fat milk over whole milk, which tastes too thick for me; like drinking cream. I was raised on whole milk so it's not a childhood preference thing.

                                                                                                                                  1. d
                                                                                                                                    deebum25 RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 25, 2008 04:29 PM

                                                                                                                                    I used to drink 2% milk until I figured out that by the time that milk is ultra pasteurized it's been heated to the nth degree and everything in it that's good for you is dead. So I switched to raw milk and have been much happier ever since.

                                                                                                                                    1. alanbarnes RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 25, 2008 05:15 PM

                                                                                                                                      I never liked milk as a small child. Then the school started serving half-pints of 1%, and I was a convert. I just prefer my butterfat in other forms, I guess. I could probably get used to skim milk, too, but the kids prefer 1% or 2% and they can use all the calories they get.

                                                                                                                                      Besides, every time I think about paying money for skim I remember my dad wondering aloud why people would pay perfectly good money for pigslop. When he was growing up, cream was for people and bluejohn for hogs.

                                                                                                                                      We keep a carton of 1% milk and a carton of half-and-half (~10%) in the fridge. Milk to drink, half-and-half for coffee, 3 parts milk to 1 part half-and-half for baking, equal portions for making yogurt, etc.

                                                                                                                                      1. kirinraj RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 26, 2008 07:36 PM

                                                                                                                                        I agree--skim tastes like water. I'm lactose intolerant and not a huge milk drinker myself, but I use it in my morning cafe con leche or chocolate, and I find that whole milk makes a huge difference. Skim makes it taste like watered down crap.

                                                                                                                                        1. stricken RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 27, 2008 12:52 AM

                                                                                                                                          I've never enjoyed the taste of milk, so I only drink it for "fuel" or use it in cooking. I feel theres no need for the extra fat. I'd rather eat my fat and calories not drink them, I'm on board with butter and full fat cheese though. there is NO substitute.

                                                                                                                                          1. JK Grence the Cosmic Jester RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 27, 2008 02:50 AM

                                                                                                                                            Skim has a bit more than half the calories of whole milk. I'm quite overweight, and I need all the help I can get. I also find that since I grew up on 1%, if I drink whole milk I might as well have just poured myself a glass of half-and-half.

                                                                                                                                            I've found that brand makes an enormous difference in the taste of milk; the California skim from Fresh & Easy is much tastier than the whole milk locally produced by Shamrock.

                                                                                                                                            1. c
                                                                                                                                              chocolatetartguy RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 27, 2008 05:07 PM

                                                                                                                                              I eat fried foods, salty snacks, sweets, but I do drink skim milk. I used to hate it as a kid, but it's been so long, I've forgotten why I switched. Probably for health reasons, and it make me feel so virtuous.

                                                                                                                                              Skim milk makes a great milk shake with Haagen Daz ice cream and the like. The milk is so watery it forms crystals with the ice cream.

                                                                                                                                              1. Karl S RE: Sam Fujisaka Oct 27, 2008 05:44 PM

                                                                                                                                                I buy 1% milk and heavy cream. I add the cream to the milk to get what I want for different uses. It's much more efficient that way. Years ago, I created a little spreadsheet to figure out all the conversions, and it's a breeze.

                                                                                                                                                3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                1. re: Karl S
                                                                                                                                                  Sooeygun RE: Karl S Oct 28, 2008 06:09 AM

                                                                                                                                                  THat's what I do as well. We have heavy cream, 1% (for DH) and skim (for me) around. For most recipes, I don't care if I'm using 1% rather than whole milk, but when I do want that extra fat, like ice cream, I just mix cream and milk. I don't have a spreadsheet though, I just guess.

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Sooeygun
                                                                                                                                                    Karl S RE: Sooeygun Oct 28, 2008 06:39 AM

                                                                                                                                                    Here's a conversion chart:


                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Karl S
                                                                                                                                                      Sooeygun RE: Karl S Oct 28, 2008 07:03 AM

                                                                                                                                                      Very handy. Thanks!

                                                                                                                                                2. m
                                                                                                                                                  missingmilk RE: Sam Fujisaka Nov 1, 2008 05:36 PM

                                                                                                                                                  I hear you. I switched to skim milk because of the lower fat and calorie content and, as a result, I now just don't drink milk at all. I originally made the choice because, as much I love regular milk, I just didn't drink it that often. I thought it'd be an easy way to get less calories, but lowfat and skim milk are so gross that I just ended up avoiding milk all together. If I ever go back to drinking milk, I'll just get the full fat stuff. I don't drink enough of it to really make that much of a difference. In fact this post has inspired me. Next time I go to the store, I'm going to get a small jug of whole milk and just enjoy it in moderation--"enjoy" being the key word here.

                                                                                                                                                  1. Den RE: Sam Fujisaka Nov 1, 2008 06:06 PM

                                                                                                                                                    I've been a milk lover since coming out of the womb and while whole milk is a great drink, I have become quite attached to skim milk from a dairy near my home. While most skim seams to be white water, this stuff from my local dairy is much better.

                                                                                                                                                    1. m
                                                                                                                                                      mariannas RE: Sam Fujisaka Nov 2, 2008 09:00 AM

                                                                                                                                                      I rarely drink milk on it's own period. Actually, the only time I drink it is if I have cookies and it's 1% or skim when I do. I grew up on Skim milk and 1% is now the compromise my whole/2% milk loving SO and I make. If I drink 2% or whole milk on it's own, it's too rich. However, I always opt for them in coffee drinks or for cooking. If I can't taste it on it's own and feel it in my mouth, it's ok. To drink it straight up is just too rich for me...although I have no problem with triple cream bries. Go figure.

                                                                                                                                                      1. vvvindaloo RE: Sam Fujisaka Nov 2, 2008 06:30 PM

                                                                                                                                                        Hard to say. As a kid, my parents bought lowfat milk for cereal and other breakfast purposes, but would never even consider anything other than whole milk for their coffee. I think I just got used to it- not just the taste, but the texture. At some point during my teens, I switched to fat free milk. To this day, I cannot sip or use any other milk in my cereal. It's not that I categorically dislike or avoid whole milk: cappuccino should be made with whole, as should hot chocolate and any dessert with a milk base. I just have room for both in my life :)

                                                                                                                                                        1. m
                                                                                                                                                          misterbrucie RE: Sam Fujisaka Nov 2, 2008 07:44 PM

                                                                                                                                                          I'm under doctor's orders to "avoid fat from 4-legged animals as much as possible" because of high cholesterol (and a family history of heart disease). My mom switched the whole family over to skim milk in the 80's when my dad had his first bypass. It's hard to argue when your dad is in the ICU, but I really had no problem with the taste or feel of skim milk, and now I prefer it.

                                                                                                                                                          1. r
                                                                                                                                                            rizzo0904 RE: Sam Fujisaka Nov 6, 2008 10:34 AM

                                                                                                                                                            I drink skim only. I never drank milk at all until I met DH. Then I started with chocolate milk...now I can tolerate it plain. Whole milk sends me running to the bathroom....

                                                                                                                                                            1. CocoDan RE: Sam Fujisaka Nov 6, 2008 12:15 PM

                                                                                                                                                              Sam, Let's not kid ourselves. Whole milk is almost all fat. I have to say I was always a full fat milk hound, and drank a lot of it when I was eating wrong. I never thought I'd be able to even sip skim milk. However, like everything else, you get used to it. Now I love it and find I don't feel I'm missing anything.

                                                                                                                                                              Oh, by the way, you don't have to eat everything full fat to be a CH. Everyone learns eventually. Some the hard way.

                                                                                                                                                              3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                              1. re: CocoDan
                                                                                                                                                                applehome RE: CocoDan Nov 6, 2008 12:41 PM

                                                                                                                                                                "Whole milk is almost all fat."

                                                                                                                                                                Wrong. Even butter is 80% fat. Whole milk is typically 3.25%. Here's a chart from wiki:

                                                                                                                                                                Butterfat content U.S. terminology
                                                                                                                                                                80% - Butter
                                                                                                                                                                40% - Manufacturers cream
                                                                                                                                                                36% - Heavy whipping cream
                                                                                                                                                                30 – 36% - Whipping cream or Light whipping cream
                                                                                                                                                                25% - Medium cream
                                                                                                                                                                18 – 30% - Light, coffee, or table cream
                                                                                                                                                                10.5 – 18% - Half and half
                                                                                                                                                                3.25% - Whole milk
                                                                                                                                                                about 2% - 2% or Reduced fat
                                                                                                                                                                1.5 – 1.8% - Semi-skimmed
                                                                                                                                                                about 1% - 1% or Low fat or The One
                                                                                                                                                                0.5 – 0.0% - Nonfat or Skim or Skimmed

                                                                                                                                                                Also think it's a helluva assumption to think that people who drink whole milk haven't learned yet to eat healthy. I'm sure that there are plenty who have, and even more people who drink skim who haven't.

                                                                                                                                                                1. re: CocoDan
                                                                                                                                                                  Humbucker RE: CocoDan Nov 6, 2008 12:43 PM

                                                                                                                                                                  Whole milk is far from "almost all fat". I think it's only about 3.5% fat, still far from low in calories, but quite a ways off from cream, which is still less than half fat.

                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: CocoDan
                                                                                                                                                                    Karl S RE: CocoDan Nov 7, 2008 03:45 AM

                                                                                                                                                                    Even in caloric terms, whole milk is just shy of being half fat.

                                                                                                                                                                  2. a
                                                                                                                                                                    Avalondaughter RE: Sam Fujisaka Nov 6, 2008 12:52 PM

                                                                                                                                                                    Well, I don't "drink" skim milk. I drank whole milk growing up and it's all I like when it comes to drinking a glass of milk.

                                                                                                                                                                    However, I drink mostly water now, and I only use skim milk for cereal and a few other things. I do it to save calories and my arteries. I don't like the taste of it on its own, but I think it's fine when used alongside other food. If I eat yogurt (which I don't like much anyway) I use lowfat because fat-free is just too gross and sour tasting. I don't eat a lot of cheese, so I feel okay eating it full fat in most cases.

                                                                                                                                                                    When it comes to desserts though, I always go full fat.

                                                                                                                                                                    1. l
                                                                                                                                                                      link_930 RE: Sam Fujisaka Nov 7, 2008 05:21 AM

                                                                                                                                                                      Because full fat is disgusting (and filth, I mean to me).

                                                                                                                                                                      1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: link_930
                                                                                                                                                                        alkapal RE: link_930 Nov 7, 2008 05:38 AM


                                                                                                                                                                      2. Soop RE: Sam Fujisaka Jan 23, 2009 06:03 AM

                                                                                                                                                                        I like the flavour better. I used to hate milk, and still don't much like full-fat.

                                                                                                                                                                        1. m
                                                                                                                                                                          MaxSeven RE: Sam Fujisaka Jan 31, 2009 01:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                          This is a psychological game that Americans play, where they think they are reducing their calorie intake by drinking skim milk, but instead just secretly empowering themselves to eat more food later. The mind's dialogue would sound something like, "Let see, I had skim milk in those two lattes this morning, so I guess it would be okay for me to eat that extra piece of cheesecake right now." Furthermore, I would hope that adults are not drinking gallons of milk per week? One just doesn't need, nor should they want that much milk in the first place.
                                                                                                                                                                          I will drink any kind of milk, but nothing below 2%, because it's like drinking dishwater with some flavoring and dye in it. It also has very little practical use in cooking. As far as I am concerned, those two varieties should be ceased from production. They have no value to me in either taste, texture, opacity, viscosity or any other properties -- get rid of them! Bear in mind that I rarely drink milk anyway - so this whole topic is more about milk as a condiment or an ingredient in a recipe.

                                                                                                                                                                          If one claims to be lactose intolerant, then why consume any dairy at all? There are numerous other ways to get calcium, if needed.

                                                                                                                                                                          1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: MaxSeven
                                                                                                                                                                            DGresh RE: MaxSeven Feb 12, 2009 04:47 AM

                                                                                                                                                                            You are assuming that people who drink skim would prefer the taste of whole. As many have said that isn't universally true. My kids can't go near 2% or more since they didn't grow up on it.

                                                                                                                                                                          2. greedygirl RE: Sam Fujisaka Feb 1, 2009 01:02 AM

                                                                                                                                                                            In the UK there are only three types of milk - skimmed, semi-skimmed and whole. I don't see the point of skimmed milk and it's rubbish in tea, which is my primary use of milk. So I generally buy organic semi-skimmed milk (which I believe is 2% but am not sure). For cooking I sometimes buy Jersey milk, which is deliciously creamy.

                                                                                                                                                                            1. l
                                                                                                                                                                              latindancer RE: Sam Fujisaka Feb 1, 2009 09:46 AM

                                                                                                                                                                              I agree with everything you're saying.
                                                                                                                                                                              Of course it tastes different than whole milk...
                                                                                                                                                                              My cardio stress test came out perfect and I'd like it to stay that way :).

                                                                                                                                                                              2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: latindancer
                                                                                                                                                                                Whosyerkitty RE: latindancer Feb 1, 2009 10:17 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                My pediatrician told me to. She said with the amount of milk children should consume, the fat differences are staggering and it's healthier for everyone. I really can't stand skim and it's useless in coffee, so I buy 1 or 2%. Half and half is definitely too heavy for me.

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Whosyerkitty
                                                                                                                                                                                  latindancer RE: Whosyerkitty Feb 1, 2009 02:19 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                  I'm with you all the way on this.
                                                                                                                                                                                  I buy 1% also. When it comes to baking/cooking I use cream or whole milk but I consume very little.

                                                                                                                                                                              2. l
                                                                                                                                                                                lcool RE: Sam Fujisaka Feb 1, 2009 10:38 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                we purchase 1% 2% and whole,all a matter of recipe and taste of the moment

                                                                                                                                                                                1. thew RE: Sam Fujisaka Feb 1, 2009 11:08 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                  they like it better?

                                                                                                                                                                                  1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: thew
                                                                                                                                                                                    Whosyerkitty RE: thew Feb 3, 2009 09:06 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                    Not so much that as that they don't need the additional fat in whole and they still need the nutrients. Most schools and fast food kids meals serve 1% (with a cheeseburger, uh okay) now. Among my other parent friends, there are the pro-milk and anti-milk camps. I am pro milk. But there are alternatives now that there weren't before, soy, nut, etc so people will go that route. And it's also been found that many who 'don't like' milk are actually somewhat lactose intolerant and it's your body's way of telling you not to consume it.

                                                                                                                                                                                  2. MC Slim JB RE: Sam Fujisaka Feb 1, 2009 05:09 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                    I drink a lot of skim milk, though I was raised on whole milk, back in the days when six glasses of whole milk a day was posited as good nutrition. As health advice changed, I weaned myself gradually to skim milk to reduce the amount of animal fat in my diet. Having gone there, I find it a little tough to go back; higher-fat milk just tastes too rich to me. I also like the fact that skim milk foams better for my lattes at home. I still cook with whole milk, e.g, in my ragu Bolognese.

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. Will Owen RE: Sam Fujisaka Feb 2, 2009 01:00 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                      I grew up drinking whole milk, mostly because back then it was either whole or skim, and only people who were either under doctor's orders or just plain weird drank skim. In fact, we seldom even drank homogenized milk, but plain pasteurized only, and drew lots to see who'd get the first glass out of a new bottle, since no matter how much you shook it up beforehand the first few inches was always more loaded with cream. My mom was horrified when homogenized became the only sort available, mostly because when that stuff sours it's useless for cooking or anything, and can only be thrown away.

                                                                                                                                                                                      I can't drink milk much anymore - it's not a lactose intolerance, because if I drink a whole glass of lactose-free milk it goes right through me, too. I do still love it, though. I'd get whole milk, but Mrs. O would prefer nonfat, so we compromise on 2%. She uses it straight in coffee only, and I have it on cereal...and sometimes sip a small glass of it, very slowly, and wish I'd thought to get some half-and-half to sneak in there...

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. s
                                                                                                                                                                                        Sharuf RE: Sam Fujisaka Feb 3, 2009 01:55 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                        Back home, we used skim milk for slopping the hogs.

                                                                                                                                                                                        The first time I ever consumed "blue milk" was when I stayed at a fat farm to drop some weight. For breakfast every morning we had our choice of a poached egg with half a slice of unbuttered toast, or oatmeal with skim milk. I traded off between these two options to try to provide some excitement to the routine.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Since then, whenever I experience a revival of the Weight Watchers religion, I drop to 1% milk so I can feel virtuous while I'm buttering my croissant.

                                                                                                                                                                                        1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Sharuf
                                                                                                                                                                                          alkapal RE: Sharuf Feb 16, 2009 05:05 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                          the skim milk of days of yore is different from today's skim milk -- in mouth-feel, primarily, because of added milk solids, iirc?

                                                                                                                                                                                        2. k
                                                                                                                                                                                          Kelli2006 RE: Sam Fujisaka Feb 3, 2009 08:47 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                          I buy 2% milk for general use but I will occasionally but whole milk if I am planning to bake, and occasionally I will get a few gallons of raw milk to make cheese. I grew up in a very rural part of Ohio where livestock outnumber humans, and buying skim milk seems like a waste of time.

                                                                                                                                                                                          I drink very little milk but I must have it for breakfast cereal and for cooking.

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. p
                                                                                                                                                                                            piccola RE: Sam Fujisaka Feb 8, 2009 05:00 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                            I don't drink a lot of milk, but to me, 2% or higher tastes too rich. I like 2% in coffee because it has more body, but on its own, I'd rather have 1% or skim.

                                                                                                                                                                                            As for yogurt, it's the light stuff again, though I drain it to make it thicker. I had full-fat yogurt in Italy and it nearly made me sick -- the mouth-feel was disgusting.

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. tracylee RE: Sam Fujisaka Feb 8, 2009 08:52 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                              OK, I found CH based on this thread after buying organic skim as the only 1/2 gallon of any milk left on the shelf in the grocery store. We loved it for it's richness, and have bought it ever since.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I do have to say, however, that when I wake up in the middle of the night, and my tradition is to have a glass of milk to get me back to sleep - the organic skim is just not as refreshing as regular skim for that! Honestly, it's that thick compared to "regular skim".

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. cowgirlthunder RE: Sam Fujisaka Feb 9, 2009 05:34 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                I drink it because it's what my mother bought for us kids back in the day. It's what I was raised on and I'm not sure how I feel about drinking full milk. It's so thick! Skim milk is what I'm used to and I'll probably be sticking with it...Although I don't mind 2% so much. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. t
                                                                                                                                                                                                  thursday RE: Sam Fujisaka Feb 11, 2009 10:41 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                  The first time I traveled to Ireland, I ordered a bowl of oatmeal for breakfast, looking forward to good old-fashioned Irish oats that I pay extra for at home. I couldn't eat more than 2 bites without getting nauseous--with whole milk in it, it tasted like someone had poured heavy whipping cream in my cereal. When I moved there for four months, the only milk I drank was lattes at an American chain coffee shop in Dublin because I couldn't find skim elsewhere. I not only HATE the creaminess and well-touted mouth-feel of whole milk, it still makes me nauseous to this day if I accidentally get it in my latte. It's what you're used to and what you like, same as anything else.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  For the record, I do like rich cheeses and always use real Irish butter. But also for the record, I don't like most cream sauces or even ice cream because they taste too creamy. It feels like there's a film of fat stuck to my palette.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. j
                                                                                                                                                                                                    julesrules RE: Sam Fujisaka Feb 12, 2009 06:47 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Love rich and fatty foods.. butter, marrow, whatever. But for drinking, I happen to really like the clean taste of 1% milk. Hate skim, that 1% really makes the difference. I can appreciate that higher fat milk/cream tastes better in coffee and many cooking applications. But sometimes I don't want a super rich dairy taste, like in mashed potatoes I find heavy cream distracting. In pureed soups a very small amount of cream goes a long way... again, I don't want to taste the cream so much as round the other flavours. Similarly, I like high fat yoghurts but a little goes a long way.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: julesrules
                                                                                                                                                                                                      alkapal RE: julesrules Feb 16, 2009 05:14 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                      your sentiments made me think of why a salty lassi (indian yogurt drink) is so refreshing. it is light, but satisfying.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. d
                                                                                                                                                                                                      dietndesire RE: Sam Fujisaka Feb 17, 2009 07:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                      I am sure if I answered that question, it would at least be deleted and I would possibly be banned.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Cloudy water is nasty. Just drink water, you don't need half ass, pretend milk. The whole milk is already depleted enough.

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