56471 Mon Oct 20 17:00:24 -0700 2003 57 2 Los Angeles Area 0 294051 Let me start by saying that I don't consider myself to be any sort of food/service/ambiance snob....but I do expect above average of all three when spending over $40 per person on food alone. That said, here is the story of my first (and last) visit to the much-hyped Dolce. Four of us had 6:30 PM reservations yesterday, and we were seated promptly. The ambiance was nice- quiet music playing, lights turned low so the flame licking the bar could be seen from every seat...very nice. We were sat in a large booth facing the restaurant, which was great for checking the place out. I perused the wine list and was slighly dismayed that there were very few wines (particularly California wines) under $45, with just a couple coming in at that price. So, I ordered a $45 bottle of chianti, to which the waiter hastily made a face- he proceeded to tell me that my choice was extremely dry and I may not like it, why don't I try the San Vicente one ($50) which is a much "fruitier" wine. Not sure why he read me as a fruity type, but I did appreciate his advice since my sister definitely is a fruity type, so we went with his suggestion. The flat or sparkling water question was asked so we opted for flat, still feeling slightly intimidated by the waiter's crumpled face about my choice of wine. NO biggie. We also ordered a half bottle of chamapagne for the only non-red-wine drinker at the table ($25) and checked out the menu. We decided to order 4 enotecas to share, then a main dish per person. I asked out waiter to bring out the enoteca first so we could all sample them, and he said he would. We ordered the gnocchi with pesto, fresh figs and proscuitto, risotto cake, and the Fried calamari, shrimp and zucchini in a grabanzo bean flour. After about 15 minutes, 1 waiter who wasn't ours and 1 busboy brought out the four plates, and barked at me "move your plate! move your plate!" wanting to set the four plates down, and plunked the gnocchi in front of my friend while trying to give the other three to each of the other three of us. I asked them to set them in the middle as we were all sharing, and they finally did. I was a little put off by the order to move my plate, but again, I am not all that picky and the food looked good, so we dug in. The gnocchi was soft and pillowy and the pesto was very good- the figs were good...literally 3 figs cut in half laying on a bed of proscuitto. The risotto cake was so flavorless that we literally couldn't tell what kind of risotto it was (it was a reddish color with a dollop of cheese on top) and the fried calamari, shrimp, and zucchini, thought tasty- was all calamari. There were 2 shrimp, 4 pathetically limp and paper thin slices of zucchini and a mass of calamari that came with a mayonnaise-based dipping sauce. Again, I was put off by the 95% calamari/3% zucchini/2% shrimp ratio but was still hopeful for our main courses and didn't want to be negative, so I just brushed it off. Also, somewhere during the course of this a bus boy quietly brought another freshly OPENED bottle of water even though our glasses were full....another thing I let "slide" but made sure to tell my dinner companions to keep an eye out so it wouldn't happen again. We ate and were ready for the main course. We all ordered pasta dishes- one giant penne with Italian sausage, one fusilli with lobster in a red pepper sauce, one risotto with veal and one cannelloni, which had been the waiter's choice when my friend couldn't decide between that or the pumpkin ravioli. The waiter went as far as saying that he'd had better pumpkin ravioli at other places, and that the cannelloni was the best. My friend appreciated his honestly and took his word for it. 5 minutes passed and our waiter returned, saying they were out of cannelloni...at 7:00PM? So, my friend asked for the menu again since the pumpkin ravioli had already been dubbed as "not so great." After waiting for another 10 minutes, we all started looking around for our waiter who was nowhere to be found. We finally flagged down another waiter and asked for a menu. We were told "oh, he's coming," referring to our waiter who obviously is the only one who can bring us a menu? (do you sense me getting more and more aggravated?). We finally get the menu, friend orders the wheat penne with eggplant and burrata mozarella, and we're on our way again to getting the much-anticipated pasta dishes.......and we wait. and wait. Then the "team" of other waiters/busboys bring out the food, setting the lobster pasta in front of my sister (I ordered it, not her). So I simply picked it up and put it in front of me. Much to our surpise, the waiter puts another plate of the same lobster pasta in front of my sister- our waiter had made a mistake with her order. We pointed it out, the team of waiters/busboys looked confused and called our waiter over. Our waiter said "oh, the kitchen screwed up!" and took her plate. We waited and waited some more, finally flagged him down again asking how much longer it would take (we didn't want to start until everyone had gotten their meal). He said "3 minutes, so you can either start eating and her's will be right out, or I can take it all back and keep it warm." We opted for the latter........and waited.........and waited. I asked for an extra champage glass so I could try some of my friend's champage, and yet another waiter practically slammed the glass down on the table. I noticed all of the spots on it before I noticed the huge, red lipstick stain and by then, I'd had it. I'd dealt with barking busboys, an enormous cast of waiters/busboys, a virtually shrimp-less shrimp plate, a wrong order, a long wait in between all of this, a broken promise by our waiter to have our food out in 3 minutes (it wasn't even close) and now a disgusting champagne glass...and still no food had arrived. I asked my friends (whom, by this time had also become quite aggravated) if it was ok to tell the manager that we'd had enough and would like to leave. They all agreed so we called over the waiter and told him, who looked at us like we were nuts and asked us to wait. About 3 minutes later, the manager came out and asked what the problem was, so I told him about the missed order, the prolonged wait for the food and the champage glass- and that I'd had enough and simply wanted the check. He said "you have to wait 5 minutes for your food so now you don't want it?" to which my friend replied "excuse me, are you now placing blame on us???" The nervous manager said "oh no, I just want to know what the problem is" so I told him again- the main reason I was so exasperated was that, on top of getting an order wrong (which happens, it isn't a crime) the waiter said it would be 3 minutes, it's been over 12 and then I get a filthy glass brought to us by another "not our waiter" and that I was at the end of my rope. He says "well, so now you don't want your food? because I have four perfectly good dinners now that are going to be wasted." Is it me of does this guy need to take a crash course in public relations??? Again, my friend pointed out the fact that he seemed to be blaming us, and that comments like that are hardly what four pissed off people want to hear after a bad experience. It took this dope about 10 minutes to figure out that no, we didn't want our food, and to please bring the friggin check! I made sure he knew I wasn't trying to get out of paying for what we had already consumed- I absolutely would pay for that but I didn't want to waste another minute in the place. He finally had the waiter (ours, for once) bring the check, and the waiter mumbled "it shouldn't be like this" and walked off. We paid the $125 tab and left. I'm still not sure if the manager knows why we left, as i could have sworn I saw him scratching his head. We needed a stiff drink and went over to El Carmen and had a few margaritas- we were talking about our night and the bar tender overheard and asked about the manager. I immediately thought "uh oh" and asked if he was a friend of his, and he replied "no, I'm not a friend but I know him- he's never managed a restaurant before." Go figure. I'd like to say, in my closing statement, that I would have a higher tolerance at a less expensive establishment- and even at higher end places I certainly do not expect perfection and Dolce is not eye poppingly expensive, but it is a "nice" place. With each thing that goes wrong, I start to get more and more irritated as I look at the obviously expensive interior, hear the hype all over town, and am tricked into having 2 bottles of $8 water. It better be damn good, and it wasn't even close. I will not be returning. Mon Oct 20 17:00:24 -0700 2003 0 tokyoastrogirl 1 294056 During the time it took you to write your anti-Dolce note, I wrote one of my own (a bit shorter)! Agreed! Mon Oct 20 17:12:15 -0700 2003 294051 0 Dylan 1 294057 wow, am I glad that eight of us were stuffed to the gills last night at Green Village with very nice prompt service. OK, they did forget one dish but considering how many other dishes we had it wasn't a big deal. Waitresses constantly bringing fresh tea and clean plates, instantly coming up with a corkage policy for us since they now have beer, all in all much better service than I expected. Corkage was $10 for all eight of us... I guess that's why I haven't been to Dolce yet. Mon Oct 20 17:13:41 -0700 2003 294051 0 Patty 2 294109 hey, we were also at Green Village last night. just had some left overs for dinner tonight. the $25 soup on the front page is/was pretty good. i have a new favorite tofu dish now, tofu with crab sauce. Mon Oct 20 22:39:53 -0700 2003 294057 0 MPKen 1 294059 Well written, it sounds like you're a very fair and understanding patron. It's unfortunate that many, many restaurants hold an "us and them" attitude towards customers still, especially restaurants with huge markups. Your only mistake was paying... Mon Oct 20 17:16:48 -0700 2003 294051 0 fooddude37 1 294063 My two cents: So I gave Dolce two chances. I haven't been back, but because there truly are so many special and fantastic Italian restaurants in LA, I have no need. But once was good, twice was fine. My first visit was pretty close to yours, except we had no intention of ordering dinner. Really just checking the place out when it opened. Our waiter was abysmal. Horrible. Riciculously bad for the amount of time we wasted there on a few tapas and some wine. He started to take care of us, but then kind of "forgot" mid-way through, and we saw him standing on the sidelines chatting it up with his cohorts. Fine. On our way out, we decided to hop out onto the patio (the place hadn't really HIT yet), so my friend could smoke. We were sitting and chatting by ourselves when the manager happened to ask us how everything was going. My friend and I just looked at each other, both having worked in the rest. bus. for years, and said, "well, if you REALLY want to know..." We proceeded to tell him how the staff doesn't get it yet, our waiter was rude and disappeared early in the game. He listened intently, brought the owner over, who we talked to for over an hour, and all seemed to be righted by our next visit. The second time, my server was one of the best I've had in LA. Truly. She was responsive to our needs/wants, had great suggestions with food and wine, was there with water every second we needed it. Just genuinely fantastic. I thought the food was above par for such a trendy restaurant. Although I think Mirko was doing a much better job at Trio in San Marino, but he didn't have the quick turnaround trend clientele he has at Dolce. Some of the tables are way to close together, and where we were that night, we had people hanging over our table from the bar. But in general it was fun and crowded, with decent food and wine. But like I said, I have no need to go back. There's no real draw unless you have the need to be a part of th scene. Mon Oct 20 17:39:13 -0700 2003 294051 0 Star 1 294064 Reading this whole post made me think about service, "fine dining", and the fact that my meal at Nick's Cafe last week, while by no means a "hip" place, could not have been more friendly or accomodating. I realize that there have always been cheap places to eat and expensive places to eat, and for many reasons I tend to avoid the expensive places, and while many of those reasons are financial, I'd say that attitude might count just as much. I live right around the corner from Dolce, but have no desire to go there, to see or be seen, or spend more money on a bottle of water than I would on an entire meal elsewhere (and be treated like a "mark" instead of a customer- sneaking another absurdly overpriced bottle of water to your party is just vile). I like good food but not enough to run some kind of gauntlet (apparently quite literally in the case of the velvet-roped Dolce) for it. Kind of rambling... maybe another topic. Mon Oct 20 17:45:29 -0700 2003 294051 0 jesse 2 294070 That water trick really annoys me particularly when someone tries to palm off Evian, my least favorite, as though it is vintage champers. I have a plan to counter the water assault - with a look resembling the vicar's wife when she thinks you have missed Sunday school, I say simply - just plain tap water please. If one consents to this highway robbery - one is to blame, but just a simple firm NO will do it. I am the one who will be waving the plastic and the end of the meal so, its my game. (My mother the venerable Ada taught me that one). Mon Oct 20 18:26:47 -0700 2003 294064 0 Zoe 3 294095 Sorry about this, but "the water scam" part of this discussion belongs on the Not About Food board. Please help us keep this board focused on LA chow. If you want to respond to Zoe's post or make further comments about the topic of bottled water, please continue on the Not About Food board. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/boards/notfood/notfood.html Mon Oct 20 19:48:24 -0700 2003 294070 2 The Chowhound Team 3 294111 The water scam is now so pervasive that it has become a major issue on the restaurant scene - it IS about food (ok, literally drink). I agree that unless you have some abiding interest in water tasting that nothing is so irritating as having additional bottles gratuitously opened, unasked, whenever someone takes a sip. I make it a habit to have the price removed from the bill when extra bottles are opened (on the very rare occasions that we buy water). The transparency of the Dolce scam described would have been enough on its own to make me leave. Mon Oct 20 23:08:37 -0700 2003 294070 0 Griller141 1 294076 I am a bit confused. You start out by saying you are spending $40 on food only for each person, and that there are four people in your party. You end up by paying only a $125 check and walking out after consuming four appetizers, a bottle of $50 wine, a half bottle of champagne, and the flat water gimmick. Are you saying that the three entres that you sent back to the kitchen you did not pay for? Granted, the service was bad, but did that excuse you from stiffing the establishment on three entres that you elected to not consume after they were delivered to your table as "promised", because the fourth entre was wrong and late? Sounds like you and your party were dealing out some "punishment" of your own, and now you rant about it here. I think you should consider your own actions, and maybe do things differently next time. Mon Oct 20 18:53:35 -0700 2003 294051 0 Chino Wayne 2 294081 Let me clarify: I meant, generally speaking, I expect good service when paying over $40 per person. At any restaurant. Sorry if it wasn't clear. I don't think I "stiffed" the establishment and there was plenty reason to be upset- not just the wrong order, the ultra late delivery, and the rude service. I hardly feel we dealt out any sort of "punishment." I stated clearly that I paid for everything we consumed. Maybe you should re-read the post before you start ranting. Mon Oct 20 19:18:39 -0700 2003 294076 0 tokyoastrogirl 3 294132 You didn't pay over $40 a person for food. You agreed to, but then you refused to honor the agreement. If I read your post correctly, you paid for the wine and the apps, and screwed them out of everything else. Tokyo, this is not like you. Nothing in Wayne's post was a rant. And do you really imagine that you have caused the restaurant to incur no cost at all unless the food passes your lips? I can't believe you can convince yourself of that. The blame actually did belong on you. You asked them to hold three completed entrees they were prepared to serve. That was a personal choice. Your decision to shaft them on FOUR meals because you thought it took them too long to remake the fourth was outrageous. Yes, the waiter shouldn't have said an entree could be made from scratch and served in three minutes flat, but you had to have known that's physically impossible. You're not an idiot...you HAD to know. And you have to take responsibility for knowing, and not treat the waiter's exaggeration as something that unilaterally frees you from any obligation to behave honorably. You're also responsible for the fact that you didn't leave earlier, and failed to assert yourself about the bottled water. You claim you "let it pass," but it clearly played a big part in your behavior. Nor does a "crumpled face" on a waiter entitle you to breach an agreement. Or even a dirty water glass...it entitles you to complain, demand a clean one, or call dang health department if you want, but a deal is still a deal. You're simply not entitled to screw them out of seventy-five dollars worth of meals completed, and another twenty-five bucks worth about to be delivered, because some imaginary line was crossed in your head that you never communicated to them. Yes, you got away with it, but you didn't deserve to. Tue Oct 21 02:50:57 -0700 2003 294081 0 Bob 4 294139 You said that much more eloquently than I did. I agree completely. Thank you. Tue Oct 21 03:42:32 -0700 2003 294132 0 Nin92ja 4 294182 I guess, in short, you are implying that even though the service was crap from the get-go, AND there was definitely blatant attempts to mooch extra money off of the customer (the water, using the less-expensive calamari over shrimp in what is clearly stated as the shrimp, calamari and zucchini platter) that it is more my responsibility to "honor" my "agreement" to pay for unconsumed meals, even though the establishment clearly didn't care to nor try to live up to theirs. It is difficult for me to think that I am the one stiffing them when, for some reason, I thought their lack of concern for honesty was actually them stiffing me. Chino's suggestion to pay for the entrees which I had asked NOT to be brought to the table but then were brought even though we didn't touch them is absurd- as if, after a tedious and long wait, the food just makes everything ok. Whatever- at the end of the day everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion. I believe what I believe, Chino has his right to state his opinion as does everyone else. Let's just get back to the grub. Tue Oct 21 13:21:19 -0700 2003 294132 0 tokyoastrogirl 5 294184 You ordered those entrees and they made them. How can you imagine that it's absurd to pay for them? And you never made a peep about anything else, so how can your private grievances excuse you from honoring your commitments? Tue Oct 21 13:37:08 -0700 2003 294182 0 Bob 6 294186 First, the restaurant is to provide you with 'acceptable' food as described in the menu or by the waiter. If it's not as offerred, or even if it is but it's not acceptable to the customer, he/she has no obligation to pay for it. Second, they are in the service business as much as in food preparation. Part of the prices you pay are for the service as well as the food. I agree 100% with tokyoastrogirl. In fact, I wouldn't have even paid for the 2nd bottle of water brought to the table un-ordered. Unless we, the customer and consumer stand up to inferior service and quality these types of 'rip-off' places will continue to exist and not be replaced by a more service oriented responsible restaurant. Tue Oct 21 13:44:09 -0700 2003 294184 0 LesThePress 7 294283 Well spoken (or written). There has to be some accountability in the upper end restaurant business and this is an example of a permissible, if somewhat blunt, response to undelivered promises. To put things in some sort of perspective, would you pay a high priced photographer for a portrait you ordered that is totally botched? Tue Oct 21 21:01:36 -0700 2003 294186 0 Griller141 8 294287 See how permissible it is if they call the cops. And just try not paying someone who does some work on your house because you didn't like the work they did. You'll be in for a surprise if you ever try to sell that house. This thread is a fascinating piece of moral relativism. Customers can act this way in restaurants only because the restauranteurs know that they can't win by calling the cops. But if you leave a restaurant without paying for your meal, and management does choose to make that call, "the waiter made a face" will not win the case. It's a misdemeanor conviction (and, over $400, a felony.) Tue Oct 21 21:36:48 -0700 2003 294283 0 Bob 9 294291 Bob, I've got to do this fast, before the Chowhound team rightfully determines that this is not about food. There has to be some limit here. If I ordered a Ferrari from a car dealer and he delivered a broken down Buick, would I be responsible for meeting the agreed price for the Ferrari, or could I rightfully walk away without paying, leaving him stuck with the lemon? Too ridiculous? - what if he delivered the Ferrari as ordered, but it wouldn't run at all? Your logic would say that I owe him because I ordered it, regardless of the quality of the product delivered. I am aware that you probably disagree based on details, but I think moral relativitism works from both sides. Or would you be interested in a guaranteed stock picking system I would be willing to sell you - but remember, you pay me regardless of performance, guarantee notwithstanding. Tue Oct 21 23:08:13 -0700 2003 294287 0 Griller141 10 294337 Griller, thanks for your reply, but I do feel your example is spurious...it's not about "details" at all. If you contract for a Ferrari and he delivers a damaged Buick, he's in breach...he has not delivered the agreed-upon item. No reasonable person (read jury) would find that a beat-up Buick was equivalent to a new Ferrari. Tort law requires that both parties act in good faith to work to minimize damages. It does not permit a given party to seize on a partial (let alone emotionally-perceived) failure of performance to invalidate an entire contract...otherwise contracts would be meaningless. (ie, a billion-dollar contract to build a subway could be invalidated because of a scuffed handrail.) This is particularly true when the aggrieved party hasn't even communicated the perceived breach to the other party. (ie, the dish set down too loudly...the "crumpled" expression...how is management to know that's a problem at all? Let alone grounds for invalidating a contract?) If TAG's party ordered four entrees, and three were finished correctly, and one was delayed...she needs to pay for what was delivered, not treat the mishap as a "get out of jail free" card. Ultimately, none of this would have happened if Dolce were even slightly competent. But even here, the idea that a gastronome like TAG never suspected that the hip place of the hour, owned by a twenty-something sitcom actor, might not be run as well as Josie or Water Grill is also utterly disingenuous. To paraphrase Britney, she's not that innocent. :-) Wed Oct 22 03:13:50 -0700 2003 294291 0 Bob 11 294384 Folks, please don't make us play hall monitor here. If you know it's a discussion for Not About Food, then put it on that board and don't keep talking here. Wed Oct 22 14:32:44 -0700 2003 294337 2 The Chowhound Team 6 294197 You know, like I said in the original post, there are certain expectations one has at a place like Dolce. I guess it's inconceivable to you that certain things should just be done right in a restaurant that charges $8 for a bottle of water??? If every customer has to vocalize basics like "this dish said shrimp and calamari, but there are only 2 shrimp" or "can I please get another menu since the dish I ordered is already sold out at 7:00PM, and can you bring it in less than 10 minutes since my dinner companions have already ordered?" or "can ya take a look at the glass before you bring it to the table to see if it doesn't have a lipstick stain the size of Texas on it?" then I guess you have a point with your comment on my "private grievances." Tue Oct 21 14:23:51 -0700 2003 294184 0 tokyoastrogirl 7 294218 People vocalize those grievances all the time. To the manager, to their friends, to this board. You're entitled to tell everyone you know. You're entitled to tip zero. You're entitled to insist that water you didn't order be removed from the bill. But when you order something and it's delivered, whether to the table or (at your request) to a heatlamp, you should pay your bills. Tue Oct 21 15:44:28 -0700 2003 294197 0 Bob 8 294230 Bob, you've made your point, three times now. It's very clear where you stand on this issue. Please move on. tokyoastrogirl has reponded to your comments and nothing new is being gained by further conversation on this point. Tue Oct 21 16:36:09 -0700 2003 294218 2 The Chowhound Team 9 294240 You're right...I apologize. Tue Oct 21 17:21:20 -0700 2003 294230 0 Bob 7 294306 Where's Larry David when we need him? Wed Oct 22 00:45:35 -0700 2003 294197 0 mc michael 3 294151 I hope the $125 didn't include a tip! Tue Oct 21 11:17:15 -0700 2003 294081 0 LesThePress 3 294208 I have appreciated your postings in the past, and I am sure that I will appreciate more of your postings in the future. However, I believe in this case, that your posting is inappropriate and has lost all focus on the purpose of this forum. This forum is about food. In your posting you wrote 1,628 words, and only about 119 of those words were about the food. The remainder of your posting was an angry diatribe against the restaurant and the unprofessional service you received. I believe most 'hounds who have been following this thread will agree that the estblishment in question is a current "scene", and that is not what Chowhound is about. You might have even had some inkling about that before you dined there. It might have been more appropriate and on topic to have simply reported in your posting that the service was atrocious, as one would expect at a "trendoid scene" and that you left the establishment after the appetizer course without tasting the entres. That you went in to so much minutae about the non-food experience, and then admitted you went elsewhere, not to dine, but to have a few "stiff drinks" indicates that you were really not interested in the food, but maybe in basking the aura of the "scene". That you refused to pay for three entres that were delivered to the table on time, and as adverstised, is inexcusable. That is not 'houndly behavior. Tue Oct 21 15:15:42 -0700 2003 294081 0 Chino Wayne 4 294220 I find it amusing that you think you know me based on a few paragraphs- like assuming that I didn't simply lose my appetite over the experience, thus going for drinks. Anyway, you can certainly state your opinion, but be careful not to judge me since you are bordering on sounding like the Master Of All Things Houndly. I wouldn't doubt I could easily find many a post on the food AND service of a certain place- if we are not allowed to discuss service at all then I'd like to see it enforced.....probably resulting in much fewer posts. and I guess I have to tell you (once again) the entrees were LATE and WRONG and brought out AFTER I asked them not to- if you refuse to believe what is clearly written in front of your face, there is nothing I can do. I thought Chowhound was about all restaurants- scene or not- and I didn't try it for the "scene" but because I had an out of towner who was interested, backed up by some recent positive reviews on this very board. Did you jump on the hounds who posted the positive reviews, accusing them of "basking in the aura" of the scene??? I think your opinions are turning into hostile and reckless comments, which is extremely unhoundly behavior, if I do say so myself. Tue Oct 21 15:49:14 -0700 2003 294208 0 tokyoastrogirl 5 294232 Folks, this site is supposed to be hosting friendly discussions about finding delicious chow. We've moved away from the topic of chow and we're veering pretty far away from friendly. Thanks to all for expressing your viewpoints, but it seems there's not much new left to say here and people are starting to get confrontational. We'd appreciate it if you could all wind this up with an agreement to disagree. Tue Oct 21 16:45:09 -0700 2003 294220 2 The Chowhound Team 4 294231 Sorry, but I read posts for what people think of the food AND what their experience was as far as service goes. True, not all places are service-oriented and that is always taken into consideration. When we hounds do dine at a place that IS service-oriented, the quality of the staff and how they treat patrons can make or break a deal. "Chow" is about food but it can also be about a restaurant as whole (IMHO). Tue Oct 21 16:36:40 -0700 2003 294208 0 Kai 2 294084 One more thing: The food was delivered AFTER we asked to end the meal. Another miss on their part- obviously there is a lack of communication on many levels. Mon Oct 20 19:22:15 -0700 2003 294076 0 tokyoastrogirl 2 294099 You have to be kidding me Chino!!! your going to question the fact that they walked out on the entrees!!!! The Restaurants screws up, says it will be 3 minutes, this after rude service, and you think that they were dishing out punishment? You and you mindset, is what is wrong with the LA restaurant scene. Mon Oct 20 20:52:21 -0700 2003 294076 0 JADED 3 294110 I believe the poster stated that four entres were delivered to the table, one was wrong. They sent all four back. What did they expect the restaurant to do with the three entres that were "right", put them under a heat lamp, while they made up the fourth one correctly? Is that what you would want done with your "high end" meal? Seems to me that might have ruined the other three. Maybe it would have been more practical to accept the three right entres, ask for an extra plate, and share a little with the fourth diner until the fourth correct entre arrived. Maybe that would have been a good point to ask to speak with the manager and possibly negotiate some sort of comp. The waiter was clearly incompetent, but that is not any reason to stiff the restaurant on food that was ordered and delivered to the table. If the diners just did not want to remain in the establishment because they were so upset, I can understand leaving, but I would pay for what I ordered and received first. Mon Oct 20 22:41:06 -0700 2003 294099 0 Chino Wayne 4 294227 Actually, while it may fly in an inexpensive establishment, if the restaurant screws up your order, the others should not have to start eating while you twiddle your thumbs. Everyone should be served at once. If the restaurant realizes the error, there are a variety of ways to handle it. The problem w/ this situation is no one handled it well - AT ALL - which does not surprise me having eaten at Dolce as well. At the very least, I believe that when the mistake was made, an offer to comp the person whose dish did not arrive should have been made. And don't even get me started on the sloppiness of having someone order something and return later to tell you they are out of it. Even diners have an "86" system in place - Dolce is playing in a league it must not belong in (the wine list is so out of place for the restaurant). I am glad that this customer stood up for herself. I had a very bad experience 2 wkends ago (Citrine, for another post) and wish I'd just left the place. Why prolong the annoyance and then pay for it to boot? A truly excellent manager will find a way to make it up to you. Dolce clearly does not have one of those. Tue Oct 21 16:21:32 -0700 2003 294110 0 Megan 5 294327 So far this is the only post I've read stating what the management could and should have done. When a restaurant is out of something, it's their screwup, except in the rare case of a purveyor not supplying something, in which case it's the restaurant's responsibility to start buying from reliable purveyors. It can be because a cook called in sick, and one guy has to cover two stations. At any rate, the kitchen knows well ahead of time before dinner service what is 86ed, and in a fine dining establishment, nothing should ever be 86ed. Communication between the kitchen and floor should be such that the floor knows well ahead of time what is 86ed. These are not hard ideals to live by, there's usually a chalkboard somewhere with a list of specials, 86 list, house wine, specials prices, etc. Orders shouldn't be wrong, period. I don't know why that's being made to sound like "not a big deal". If I'm paying 30-40 bucks for an entree then I expect pretty emaculate service. I order a cheeseburger from In'n'Out and I get one without cheese, I'll live, no biggie. I have 3 friends with me, it's a special occasion, and an entree order is screwed up? The whole experience turns sour. Bad service and general screwups can be remedied with comped wine and desserts, and good communication from management. A simple, "I'm sorry, but we're having problems tonight, we'll be comping a round of drinks and dessert" is simple, cheap for the restaurant (c'mon, a few scoops of ice cream and some stoli martinis? We're talking a few bucks out the door people) and makes an impression and increases the chance of repeat business. It sounds like the management at Dolce made no attempt to even admit that they were having problems and chose to turn a blind eye. BTW, I've worked as a cook in good and bad restaurants for the past few years, and at this point in the game, if I experienced what tokyoastrogirl did I'd do the same. I know what professional waiters are like, and it's a far cry from the average actor/model type that are so much more ubiquitous. I also know what most food cost percentage markups are, and someone walking out on so-called 160 dollars worth of food is hardly that, it's a drop in a bucket. Wed Oct 22 01:48:06 -0700 2003 294227 0 fooddude37 1 294090 I completely agree with you on the bottled water trick. I absolutely hate not being asked first whether or not I want something before I have to pay for it. But, I think you were a bit harsh about the restaurant, especially since it seems obvious that you were mostly put in a bad mood because of the little gestures and facial expressions of your waiter. Granted, the manager should have done a better job appeasing your frustrations as well. But, you should be informed that most restaurants employ "runners" whose specific job it is to take food from the kitchen to the table, so it should have been to no surprise that people other than your waiter came to deliver your food. The waiter should not have told you that your dinner would come in 3 minutes. Anyone is lucky to get a new dinner in less than 10 minutes, especially if they have to "re-fire" another dish. If it is a nicer restaurant, there is no way they are going to have already cooked meats or pastas lying around so that they can be finished cooking in 3 minutes. "Re-firing" usually means cooking the entire dish over again from the beginning. Really, I don't think it's fair to ask anyone working in a kitchen to cook off pasta, even fresh pasta, toss it around in sauce, plate it up, garnish it and deliver it to a table in 3 minutes. Let's not even get into how long it can take a protein dish like chicken or any red meat to be re-fired. A little harsh, IMHO. Mon Oct 20 19:34:21 -0700 2003 294051 0 Nin92ja 2 294127 You sound like you have shares in the restaurant... The author wasn't putting down the kitchen competence or lack of it if that applies, but the obvious poor management of a so-called high end restaurant that is currently in the top 10 of the "Trendoid" list, and all that that implies--high prices, useless communication skills and boatloads of attitude. Yes of course they will continue to get away with it as long as they are considered "cool", and will disappear as soon as the customers come to their senses. The original poster was not being "harsh", but I am, on people who continue to suport trendy/clueless establishments, so I guess you can take it out on me. Tue Oct 21 02:27:19 -0700 2003 294090 0 Public Eye 3 294137 I don't think I was "taking it out" on the writer at all. I was merely presenting my opinions. Also, I have not even been to Dolce and actually avoid going to places that are too hyped, or too trendy, especially since Brittany Spears was pictured on the cover of tabloids leaving Dolce. Just like I would never go to Madre's and am astonished that it's still open for business, but I digress... Tue Oct 21 03:33:14 -0700 2003 294127 0 Nin92ja 1 294105 Thanks for sharing this, we were considering giving it a shot because I had heard that the service was very good even if you aren't a celeb, but after reading this, I'll cross it off my list. Mon Oct 20 21:49:06 -0700 2003 294051 0 SpongeBobSquarePegs 1 294115 Should have worn a Von Dutch trucker hat. I won't go here either. Mon Oct 20 23:46:58 -0700 2003 294051 0 Xericx 1 294143 Thanks for the post. I won't be patronizing them either. I would have done the exact same thing you did since it sounds like they were completely responsible for botching up the evening. You did the right thing...don't let anyone make you think otherwise. Tue Oct 21 09:33:57 -0700 2003 294051 0 Kai 1 294178 Thanks for the warning. Now I know never to patronize this place. Somebody said you were "a little harsh" or that it was a "close call" who was to blame for this incident. Baloney. There is no such thing. Short of criminality or psychotic behavior, the customer is always right. Tue Oct 21 12:59:57 -0700 2003 294051 0 jcwla 1 294196 Thanks for the post on your experience. I say good for you and your party for standing up for your rights as a customer. Not only was the service incompetent but it was also rude (slamming dishes on the table barking orders). Some suggested the walkout "a bit harsh". Maybe if a simple mistake was made but there were multiple lapses in which the customers were inconvenienced. Upscale establishments need to be held accountable for this sort of thing. If that means people walking out for them to get the message than so be it. Tue Oct 21 14:22:28 -0700 2003 294051 0 JR 1 294237 TAG, thanks for the long and detailed post. While I'm sure none of us will know exactly how you felt and what exactly happened, it does sound to me like a disastrous evening for almost everyone concerned. You definitely have a right to publicly express your dismay with the restaurant, but from what you've stated I can see why the manager and waiter were so confused. The reason I say this is because it looks like the runners/busboys and kitchen are primarily to blame for your bad experience. In fact, from what you describe it sounds like you had a very professional waiter. I've distilled the experience you described down to a list of good and bad. In cases where it was not obvious who made the mistake, I made some assumptions about who was to blame, listing the most likely culprits first: (F-front of house/host or hostess) (W-waiter) (K-kitchen) (R/B-food runners and/or busboys) (M-manager) Good F-Seated promptly at reservation time in good location W-Waiter suggested an alternative wine that he thought you'd like more (only $5 more than your selection) W-Waiter helped with meal selection/made recommendation W-Waiter offered option of taking meals back to kitchen so they'll stay warm K-Three enotecas were good Bad W-Waiter made a "crumpled" face W-Waiter is slow bringing a menu to table R/B-Runner barks at you R/B-Busboy brings an open bottle of water to table when water glasses are full R/B-Another waiter or runner refuses to bring menu R/B-Another waiter slams dirty champagne glass on table K-One enoteca was bland K-More calamari than shrimp in one enoteca K-Out of cannelloni (though not unusual situation on a Sunday evening for a recommended dish-deliveries usually aren't made on weekends, certain labor-intensive dishes are prepared in advance during the week during slower periods and can run out by the end of the weekend, etc.) K or R/B-Long wait for food K or W-Waiter or kitchen makes mistake on one order (most likely the kitchen, although the waiter or runners should have checked the order before it went out) K or R/B or W-Waiter claims food will be ready three minutes after your inquiry, but it takes longer M-Manager's attitude It's obvious that the bad situations far outweigh the good, but it looks to me like the runners, busboys and kitchen are the real guilty parties here, particularly for the slow delivery of food, since delivering food was their primary responsibility. All I can determine that the waiter did wrong was make a "crumpled" face that may or may not have been directed at you (maybe he's tasted that wine and the face he made reflected his dislike of it, like "ooh, that's astringent!") and fail to promptly bring a menu to the table when a substitute order needed to be made. He certainly seemed to know the food and wine well enough to know what was good or bad and make appropriate recommendations based on what he thought you'd like. To his credit, when he recommended an alternate wine he didn't select something that cost $75 - $100 as some places would be prone to do. It also sounds like he recommended alternate main courses that were similarly priced to the initial selections. It almost sounds to me like the runners and busboys were doing everything they could to sabotage the waiter's efforts since they were most likely to blame for the food taking so long to arrive. Maybe the waiter didn't tip them well the night before and they were rebeling against him, but there's no excuse for the runners' rude attitudes and behavior towards you and their poor service. The manager has also failed to train the waiters to treat every customer in the restaurant as their customer, even if they're not at their station, especially if they're making small requests such as obtaining an extra glass or plate. The water situation is an interesting one, as sometimes I feel it's become the fine dining equivalent of "Would you like fries with that?" and extended warranties. To avoid feeling victimized by this practice, all you need to do is develop a little assertiveness and self-confidence. One way I get around this is by reversing the "guilt" or "embarassment" by placing it on the establishment. I'll ask if their tap water is filtered. If they reply "yes," I say that tap water will be fine. If they say "no," I'll then comment with a frown, "Hmm, so the kitchen prepares dishes with regular old tap water?" Marketing parasites have determined that pushing bottled water on customers by appealing to their insecurities is a very profitable practice, so I doubt we're going to see this go away any time soon. Stand up and show them you don't give a damn what they think if you don't want to pay $8 for a bottle of water. Here are a couple of other ways you can reply to the "still or sparkling" inquiry (best said with wide sarcastic grin on your face and while looking the waiter in the eye): "No thanks, and I don't want fries with my foie gras either." "Sure, I'll have the 2003 Eau de L.A. Municipal." (pronounced moo-NEE-say-paul) "Sure, give me a bottle of Castellammare di Stabia Acqua Della Madonna (or any other obscure brand that you know they won't have). What? You don't have it? Well, I won't drink anything else." "Water? That's what fish f*** in!" (courtesy W.C. Fields) As for the busboy bringing an additional bottle of water to the table that you didn't order, you should have told him then and there that you didn't order more water. Or, you could have left the bottle sitting there untouched and told the waiter that the busboy brought you a bottle of water that you didn't order and please send it back. Refuse to be a victim! I hate trendy restaurants and servers with attitude as much as anyone else, and I certainly won't be patronizing Dolce any time soon based on your experience and those of others posted here. But I have to admit that I kind of feel a little sympathy for the waiter, who sounds like he was making an effort to provide good service. However, the busboys, runners and kitchen sound like they are thoroughly unprofessional and should be replaced. And the management should recognize this problem and take the appropriate actions to fix it. Tue Oct 21 17:13:13 -0700 2003 294051 0 Chris G. 1 294268 One point I don't think anyone below brought up... tokyo, it sounds to me like one of the things that bothered you is that it wasn't your waiter who performed certain tasks, like bringing your food or the champagne glass, but rather other waiters or buspersons. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that; the "team" approach to service is pretty much standard among high end restaurants and I think it tends to produce better results. In fact, I dined at the French Laundry not long ago, which many claim has the best service in the U.S. (and it was certainly the most professional service I've ever witnessed), and I don't believe "our waiter" brought out a single one of the 9 or so dishes served that night. A team of other servers delivered all the dishes. I don't think that means you did the right or wrong thing, I just wanted to point out that being served by a team, rather than by one person, isn't a mark of poor service. -Nick Tue Oct 21 19:35:04 -0700 2003 294051 0 nja 1 294340 Not to bring up bad memories of 2000, but dear Tokyoastrogirl, I just determined you've been trying to use fuzzy math on us! I stumbled across the Dolce Enoteca website, and your food orders were nowhere near $40+ per person. In fact, it averaged out to $22.25 per person, almost half that amount! Still doesn't justify the lousy service you got, but you did mislead your fellow Chowhounds. I'm disappointed! %( According to Dolce's online menu, the items you ordered were priced as follows: Figs/prosciutto - $4 Risotto cake - $6 Gnocchi - $8 Calamari/shrimp - $8 Wheat penne - $13 Giant penne - $15 Risotto/veal - $16 Fusilli w/lobster - $19 Food total - $89 (stiffing Ashton Kutcher for $63 of pasta . . . priceless. Hey dude! You've been punk'd!) I also like how you determined that your calamari/shrimp/zucchini dish was 95 percent calamari, 3 percent zucchini and 2 percent shrimp. Given that, as you say, there were two pieces of shrimp and four pieces of zucchini (maybe two pieces were only 20-weight thickness compared to the other two 40-weight pieces), that means you had 95 pieces of calamari! A bountiful calamari bonanza for a mere eight bucks! No wonder the runner was screaming at you to move your plate. The dish must have been the size of the Exxon Valdez, just spilling over with squid! His skinny little Eurotrash heroin chic legs were probably about to buckle and break from the weight of it all! Look at the bright side - for $125, about what you would have paid for a pair of tickets to see Marilyn Manson at the Greek Theater, you had ringside seats for four to the wonderous spectacle and disaster that is Hollywood hipster dining (and you didn't have to dodge drunks in a mosh pit). It's hard to find a much better entertainment value in Hollywood for a little over $30 per person, especially including drinks for that price. I hope you're having a good laugh over it now. (And Bob, if you're reading, you can cool off now as TAG and crew only did the dine 'n' dash on $63 worth of food, which probably only had a wholesale value of about $25 to $30 - although I tend to agree with Chino Wayne and you about the etiquette aspect.) Link: http://www.dolceenoteca.com/ Wed Oct 22 05:16:06 -0700 2003 294051 0 Chris G. 2 294342 Chris, I love your posts. They're informed, hilarious, and a pleasure to read. As for the cooling off, consider it done. (I love TAG's posts, too, in fact.) Wed Oct 22 09:03:22 -0700 2003 294340 0 Bob 3 294400 Thanks. Now that I know that Dolce is part-owned by Ashton Kutcher I realize what TAG's problem was. She forgot to say the magic woids: "Dude, where's my food?" No wonder the restaurant is called Dolce, which is Italian for "sweeeeeeeet!" I've decided to make reservations for Dolce after all, just so I can annoy the waiters with quips like "Dude, where's my menu?" "Dude, where's my champagne glass?" "Dude, where's my food?" "Dude, that dessert was sweeeeeet!" Wed Oct 22 16:12:44 -0700 2003 294342 0 Chris G. 4 294412 Bravo! Wed Oct 22 16:48:39 -0700 2003 294400 0 Chino Wayne 4 294580 And then...? Thu Oct 23 18:10:22 -0700 2003 294400 0 Professor Salt 5 294617 You HAD to go there! I was TEMPTED... but didn't, darn glad someone did though... HAHA! Thu Oct 23 22:10:58 -0700 2003 294580 0 woo! 2 294549 I think I addressed this in another post- but I meant GENERALLY SPEAKING, when one is at a place where the food price per person would equal $40 or more per person. I didn't say that I SPENT $40 on food per person- I meant that Dolce is the kind of place where the food per person would be $40 or more. So much for your theory, but nice try! Thu Oct 23 16:13:35 -0700 2003 294340 0 tokyoastrogirl 3 294595 Fair enough (although can you equally justify your 95 percent calamari estimate? ;>) ). Either way, your post has inspired me to "punk" Dolce (take that, Ashton!) very soon. Watch this site . . . Thu Oct 23 19:31:23 -0700 2003 294549 0 Chris G. 1 294551 Well said! I must say, it certainly sounds as if the establishment clearly needs work, and should be avoided, not in the least due to it's trendiness. That being the case, I must side with Chino on this, in my opinion TAG does bear at least some responsibility for the 3 entrees which were delivered on time and correctly. Thu Oct 23 16:15:38 -0700 2003 294051 0 woo! 2 294649 Busted!!! Spoken like someone that has just dined at Il Mulino and Le Bernidan in NY the last two nights , right? But lives here in OC/LA with the rest of us. Fri Oct 24 02:35:40 -0700 2003 294551 0 russkar 3 294657 Ya GOT me! BTW... Babbo was AWESOME last night... the full report comes soon :) Fri Oct 24 09:02:36 -0700 2003 294649 0 woo!