Surprise Birthday Trip to NYC - Please Help

[Sssh]

My "real handle" is Peppermint Pate and I reside on the Toronto board. The moderators have graciously let me take on a temporary second handle so I can secretly plan my husband's birthday trip to NYC.

Here's the scoop: in a few weeks, he and I are flying in for a dear New York friend's birthday dinner. Or so he thinks. In reality, shortly after arrival, we will head over to Madison Square Park to split a little mid-afternoon Shake Shack burger. Scattered on the various chairs througout the park will be 10-12 of our closest friends from Toronto who will have secretly flown into town. SURPRISE! His milestone birthday isn't for another few months but having been forbidden from feting him on that occasion, I've opted to honour his X+3/4 year birthday instead. That evening, I'm taking the gang out for dinner, together with a few of our New York friends. We will be making a long week-end of it.

Here's where I'd love your help:

1) Party dinner venue - Saturday night - probably about 16 people. Prefer downtown spots - LES, Village, Nolita, maybe Chelsea, etc. We'll likely be staying in LES so anywhere within a 30-40 minute walk would be great. I don't want a private room - prefer to soak up some New York ambiance. Up to $75/person (food and drink). Was thinking of Tides, which we love, but we'd be taking up a good chunk of the restaurant. Plus website says cash only - would I bring a briefcase of $? Thought about 'inoteca - fun spot, good food, casual - like all of that. How's the food/service these days? Fans of Hearth but prefer something a bit more fun - how's Terroir? Open to any and all suggestions. If it's a place I've never been, I really need a place with consistently great food and service i.e. I don't want to blow it on the "big night".

2) Sunday brunch (favourite meal) - likely to include some of our gang again (maybe 10 in total) so we could probably make reservations even at "no reservations" places. Again, prefer to stay downtown. We've enjoyed Prune and Clinton Street Bakery on previous visits. Current short-list includes Five Points, Cookshop, Perry Street and Extra Virgin. Maybe Freeman's. Do any of these places have killer coffee? Looking more for breakfasty than lunchy items (french toast and eggs over salads and burgers). Any favourites among these or other suggestions?

3) Sunday dins - this might be just the birthday boy and I. We're newbie-ish parents and this will be our first little getaway. Craving something cozy, romantic and, natch, great food. Love the atmosphere at August and those lovely little West Village boites (but it needn't be West Village). A few places I'm wondering about - Mas, Perilla, Little Owl, Perry Street.

4) Monday breakfast - bonus points for somewhere with great coffee. Thinking of checking out Abraco. Can I get a meal there or just pastries? Other downtown non-diner spots for a nice weekday breakfast?

Would also love some rec's for a place to grab a few drinks on Saturday night, after our dinner (near restaurant or in LES). Other places that we might fit in at some point - Spotted Pig, Momofuko Ssam.

I've attached my (long) trip report from my last visit which may give you some insights into my likes and dislikes but is by no means necessary reading (I've already kept you long enough) - http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/328924

A million thanks in advance.

[MMRuth]

For (3) you might also consider Wallse - Austrian influenced cuisine. It's been a couple of years since I've been to Mas - I liked both meals, but it was v. expensive both times.

Can't help with (1) - not a group going out person or (2) not a brunch person!

(4) Well - you know my favorite! Where are you staying, by the way?

Have you been to Spotted Pig and/or Ssam before?

[Sssh]

Hi MMRuth - you have a permanent spot in my heart for your Via Quadronno rec from last time - hoping to fit it in this time, even if I have to take a cab uptown just for a coffee. Thank you for the Wallse rec - will look into this. I haven't been to Spotted Pig or Ssam before but both were on my (never-ending) list of leftover spots from the last trip. For hotels, we're thinking of trying out the new Thompson Hotel in LES - we really like staying in that 'hood.

[MMRuth]

In that case - I would definitely try to fit in Ssam - we went to both Ssam and Spotted Pig for the first time this summer for lunch on Fridays (I've been to both twice now), when there was no problem getting a table. I think of the pork buns at Ssam all the time, and keep meaning to try to replicate them at home. The banh mi there is quite good, as is the ham selection. I liked Spotted Pig a lot (you can search for my report) and the gnudi are excellent - but I wouldn't wait in line to eat there - so a late lunch might work.

[MMRuth]

By the way, you can get the same coffee not quite as far uptown by going to Bottega del Vino - similar menu in the front room - and a great place to go before a movie at the Paris if you are so inclined - one of our favorite things to do on a Sunday.

[kathryn]

Wow, great idea on having the friends at Shake Shack. It might be even better if you organized it such that his food was already ordered by the time you arrived, so no waiting in line!

For dinner: I like Terroir a lot but it is definitely more casual, nearly all the seating is on stools or very high chairs. Might not be that comfortable if you were there for a long time. And 10 people is about half?, maybe a third of the space. I'm not sure how busy they are these days. The food is quite good but definitely more snacky in nature. However, for that large a group, 'inoteca is definitely doable if you get the downstairs room and the food is still good! I hope they have the affogato for dessert!

For brunch, here's my epic thread on brunch:
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/445794

I love brunch too but again, a group that hard can be hard to do. Five Points...I'm not sure they even have a table big enough. Freeman's would be a very good choice because they ONLY take reservations for large parties. Cookshop would be good too but I'm not sure how they'd do a large party; I think their biggest booths only hold 8. I'd definitely give them a call and ask. Also note that the same people who do Cookshop and Five Points also own Hundred Acres. I wonder if Balthazar or Pastis could handle your group -- Pastis has a communal table. Great french toast at both, and excellent sweet pastries/bread basket. I also like Stanton Social for big group brunches as well as Blue Ribbon Bakery, although BRB has more lunchy items than brunchy.

Brunch for a large group:
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/463207

For Sunday dinner: Little Owl is definitely cozy, a little romantic, and has very good food but I would call ASAP for reservations. It is insanely popular. I liked Perilla too and the feel was less homey, more upscale than Little Owl. Haven't been to Mas or Perry Street.

For coffee: DON'T GO TO ABRACO ON MONDAY! Why? Because they are closed on Mondays. :) Alas! If you can fit it in some other time, do it. They do some simple egg dishes sometimes but it is rather difficult to eat in the space, standing up, if they are packed. And they're usually packed on weekends. But that olive oil shortbread cookie is hard to resist. Other good coffee nearby would be Think Coffee (2nd location on Bowery), Gimme Coffee (newish Nolita location), and 9th Street Espresso (now with two locations in the East Village). I'm not a huge fan of Mudspot or the Mud Truck. Roasting Plant is nice but I think theirs to be a bit on the light/weaker side. 88 Orchard is pretty good but not up there with the best in town.

On a weekday, Clinton St. Baking Company's crowds are much easier to handle. Too bad Shopsin's will be closed.

More weekday brunch and breakfast spots (note that Country is currently in transitional state as I think they are changing concepts so I would put that towards the bottom of the list right now):
http://www.chowhound.com/topics/417656

Oh, and I think Cookshop just added weekday breakfast to their service hours.
http://www.thestrongbuzz.com/buzz/det...

Since we appear to share similar taste in food, I would definitely encourage you to check out Momofuku Ssam Bar! For a newbie, right now, I would say that the steamed pork buns with cucumber and hoisin, apple kimchi with Burger's jowl and maple labne, Benton's country ham with coffee-infused red eye gravy, chicken and egg (with a whole egg yolk suspended inside) pate en croute, Long Island duck with spaetzle and cheddar, and Bev Eggleston's pork shoulder steak with creamy buttermilk dressing are not to be missed.

Have a great trip!

[Sssh]

Holy chowhound kathryn - thanks so much for the detailed response. I actually had come across your brunch thread and had already printed it off before I posted my questions - anybody who uses "best bacon" as a subgroup is my kind of peeps!!!

Between you and MMRuth, I'm putting Ssam on the list - maybe we'll have a snack there on Sunday afternoon to tide us over from brunch to our cozy dinner.

I've been to Balthazar, Pastis and BRB on past visits (though only BRB for brunch) - liked them all but wouldn't mind trying some place new for brunch. Definitely realizing that my large group is a bit unwieldy and I would have no trouble with us casually splitting up into a couple of tables - so assuming size of the group wasn't an issue, and if I was looking for killer eggs benny, french toast, BACON and espresso-based coffees, which spots would top your list?

Thank you for saving me the trip to Abraco on Monday and for suggesting alternates. Looks like there are many more artisan coffee shops since my last visit - same in Toronto - all good.

For our big night, is the downstairs room at 'inoteca nice? I don't remember it as we were in the main space. I would prefer to be on the main floor but it might not be an option with our gang. Can you think of some other place that might be great or should I just go with 'inoteca and call it a day?

Again - thanks for the details response. I'm even more excited now.

[mch]

this sounds like an amazing weekend.

i'm not one for brunch but for your group dinner you might want to try alta for your big group night. it is delicous tapas-they have a room off the kitchen that will probably fit your group.

can't wait for a full report after the weekend.

[Sssh]

The menu at alta looks yummy - and I love the idea of "the whole shebang" - though I don't think I could practically do that with so many people i.e. I'd need many so many of each dish for everyone to get a taste. Will definitely file a report when we're back (in November). Thanks!

[kathryn]

For brunch, I'm not sure -- just because you're OK splitting up into a couple of tables doesn't mean the restaurant will be OK with it! The kitchen still has to take and time all those orders at almost the same time, you know? Maybe Freemans' private room? The Smith or any others in that thread might also work. For killer eggs benedict, french toast, AND bacon, that's mighty hard. For a great lobster eggs benedict, creme brulee battered French Toast, and good coffee/bacon, maybe try the Neptune Room. Another option is Devin Tavern. A huge space. Very good food but when they changed their waffle with strawberry butter to an oatmeal waffle with strawberry button, my fiance was very disappointed. I think I would call Neptune Room, Cookshop, Devin Tavern, and Freemans.

The downstairs room at 'inoteca is like a nice cellar. It's a little dark. But given their popularity, I would definitely take it. Most of the places I can think of that offer space to big groups put them in private rooms, usually in the basement. For 'inoteca, they do seat *other* parties in there so you get a little more atmosphere.

[kobetobiko]

HI Sssh,

I will second a lot of the suggestions from MMRuth and Kathryn, and I will just throw in a few ideas:

- For the party dinner, kathryn mentioned that 'ino is doable. I have never been to the room downstairs so I can't comment. I definitely think thta Terrior is a bit too small and the food doesn't really construct a "proper" dinner (IMO). It's more like small plates with the wine, not really dinner food (of course you can always order a lot, but I don't found that to be too fulfilling). I think Terroir will be a great place for your After-dinner drink place.

From your post you mentioned that you liked Lupa. Lupa is very good at handling large group and it is fun. You will need to call ahead for party of your size, and I think they have a prix-fixe menu for party more than 10. It's $60 + 20% tips, and with alcohol, it will be slightly over your budget. Although you were disappointed by the gelato at Otto, I think it is a great place for group dinner. You will find the same high quality ham and salamu selection as Lupa, and their antipasti from vegetables to meat are perfect for sharing. Their pasta is better than their pizza, and on par with Lupa.

Alta is another choice as they have a back room and you canorder the "shebang" deal (everything on the menu) for your group. However, I prefer the food at Lupa to Alta. The ambience at these places are definitely fun and lively.

By the way, I saw on The Spotted Pig's website that you can call for large party arrangement, so you may try to see if they can fit your group for dinner.

- For brunch, Perry St is very chic and food is fine, though their existing table set up doesn't have something for your large group. If you call ahead I think they can arrange the tables for you. Good thing about Perry St is that they have a prix-fixe menu with very cheap wine by glass selection, so you don't have to worry about budget. Cookshop definitely has more brunchy food selection, and they should be able to handle party of your size.

- For the romantic dinner for two, I personally like the food at Perilla more than Little Owl, but I don't consider Perilla romantic. It's small and cozy but not really romantic in my book. My choice for romantic date dinner is usually Degustation, but alas it is closed on Sunday. Two other places that I consider romantic and reasonably priced are Apizz and Allen and Delancey. The latter is more expensive and the food is more "wholesome", but the weather is getting cold so it should actually work out fine.

-For Monday, you can go to Despana for great coffee and some spanish small treats. You can even pick up some food there to bring back to Toronto. Di Palo is very close and you can pick up some killer prosciutto and Italian cheese. If you can call ahead on Sunday and ask Sal or Lou to save you a burrata, then you can get one and indulge yourself in cheese heaven! (I heard burrata is extremely hard to find and expensive in Canada!)

Hope you have a great trip and I look forward to your report!

[MMRuth]

Despana is a great suggestion.

[kathryn]

Note: 'ino is the tiny one in the West Village. 'inoteca is the larger space with the downstairs room on the LES.

Lupa's large group options are on their web site, it might be out of your price range, though:
http://www.luparestaurant.com/group-d...

[Sssh]

Yes - thanks. I've been to both and I did mean the 'inoteca. I don't think all of 'ino would have enough room for our gang. Though I'm starting to think I may have to uninvite some of our guests as I hadn't really thought through the challenge of booking a large group!

We really liked Lupa when we were there - may look into that option as well. Alas, pricing does count as I'm footing the bill for everyone and it adds up quickly.

[Sssh]

Hi kobetobiko - thank you for such a detailed response and for obviously reading my trip report from last time.

Spotted Owl could be interesting for the group dinner - from all that I've read, it sounds like a fun atmosphere. And if you and MMRuth rec the coffee at Despana, I'm there (actually, where is it?)! Though I can only compare the prosciutto from Lupa - which remains the best I've ever had - I think you can get some pretty decent antipasti, including burrata, in Toronto. Interesting comments on Perilla and the other rec's - have you tried Mas? It looks so romantic on its website.

Many thanks and I'll be sure to report back.

[financialdistrictresident]

Hi kobe! Hope all is well. I don't think Allen & Delancey is that romantic. A little too dark. Maybe in winter. Maybe I need to try it again because my experience there was not that great. I like it better for drinks in the bar area. Still love Falai (too white to be romantic :) Bacaro is pretty romantic, especially downstairs. And Bacaro has private rooms.

[kam0424]

wow, great idea! Here's my 2 cents:

Surprise dinner: I would absolutely suggest Rayuela! (http://www.rayuelanyc.com) They have a great large table upstairs, but it is mixed in with the rest of the smaller tables and overlooks the bar downstairs. Very good food and excellent service. The vibe and decor are both very lower east side. I was impressed when I went for a dinner a few weeks ago.

My second suggestion would be Gusto. We had our holiday party there (we are a small company of 10) and it was excellent.

As for brunch, I think Sarabeth's could be a nice option, although it is uptown. Others would be Perilla (GREAT brunch) or Market Table.

For drinks, I would recommend Stanton Social, White Rabbit or Employee's Only (although its in WV

)

Hope that helps, good luck!

[kathryn]

Only one of the Sarabeth's restaurants takes reservations (the one on CPS), and I've never been super thrilled with their french toast.

[Sssh]

Hi kam - many thanks for the rec's, particularly for drinks as I'm fairly lost in that area (though we have been to Stanton Social). I've been to all of the Sarabeth's on previous trips - I think I prefer someplace a little more intimate and downtown. Will look up Rayuela and Gusto. Cheers!!

[financialdistrictresident]

Rayuela is a good suggestion. Also a good place for cocktails on the LES.

[cavafan]

I threw a 40th birthday party for a friend at 'inoteca last December, and it worked out perfectly. It is a fixed menu, but you get to choose within it, so you can customize. They let us bring in a cake, they made accommodations for some vegetarian guests, they really couldn't have been nicer. It's a cozy space, and as others have said, there are other people seated downstairs with you, so you don't feel cut off from civilization.

As for your romantic dinner, I second Allen and Delancey. It's about the most romantic spot I've been lately, and will be really cozy now that the weather has cooled.

[Sssh]

Hi all - me again. Well first, the good news - after striking out on opentable, I had a lovely e-mail exchange with the folks at Little Owl and we have a dinner reservation there for our Sunday evening dinner (just the 2 of us). But I'm still struggling a bit with the big dinner. I'm on a waiting list at Lupa. I have a tentative hold on a table at 'inoteca but I'm still not sure about sitting downstairs (no other option) - there will be one other large group in the room with us but we're still in the cellar. Alta can give me a 9:45 reservation in the "mezzanine" (which feels a bit late for everyone who has flown in that day but maybe that's a good New York time to go out!). Also, they said the only credit card they take is Amex - isn't that odd? The "whole shebang" thing definitely sounds fun. Thought about Hearth and Perilla but probably too spendy. Wondered about Red Cat, though I'd prefer the Village or LES. Should I just go with one of my existing rezzies or can you think of another spot I might have missed? Looks like our group will be about 10-12 people. Thanks!!!

[kathryn]

Personally I'd take the cellar at 'inoteca but mostly because I love their truffled egg toast, and the wait is killer as a walk-in.

BTW, a fair number of restaurants in NYC are cash only or AMEX only due to the merchant fees (credit card companies take a cut of every transaction and sometimes AMEX does special deals for certain merchants).

NYC is actually *more* of a cash-based economy than other places (everything tipping to paying for cabs to street vendors), and with a dense population, it doesn't hurt business (including restaurant business). Friends from out of town are often surprised about that.

Another thought is to reserve the Bo Ssam (slow cooked pork shoulder butt) at Momofuku Ssam Bar for dinner! It's the only way to make a reservation at the restaurant. And you won't be in a private room.

[Lucia]

I would stick to 'inoteca over Alta, although I haven't been to the cellar at 'inoteca. I like Red Cat, but it's more of a neighborhood place.

[AimeeD]

I second the recommendation for Bacaro. A friend had her Bday dinner for 14 people there a few months ago and it was great. We had our own semi-private room so we had lots of space, but it was still lively. She had arranged a prix-fixe menu beforehand, and
with tax, tip, and wine we paid approx $60/pp.