being invited to eat where there are cats

[smartie]

ok this is not an allergy to cats thread but how do you CHers feel about being invited to someone's house where you know, positively, that their cats are allowed to, and do, roam on the kitchen counters?

I love animals, have dogs of my own and have owned outdoor cats but I cannot bear knowing that cat's feet have been walking around the countertops where the food is being prepared.

We have been invited to a co-worker on Thursday next week to break the fast and I am put off eating there. I know the cats have litter trays in the kitchen and do not go outside.

Do I eat there or eat first?

[pedalfaster]

Old thread, but fun topic.
I worry more about human beings.
Shoes.
Fingernails.
Teeth, OMG!
Ugh.
But since I don't want to live in a bubble, I take my multivitamins and I take my chances! :)

[pine time]

Yup, it's an old thread that's been re-opened, but since it was originally written, I've watched a whole lot of House Hunters International, and I've learned that lots of places have tiny apartments and that they have a stacked washer/ dryer in the kitchen. To me, that's close to having the kitty litter bin in the kitchen. Dirty clothes have lots of yuck on them, and to do laundry in the kitchen, and/or folding or dumping loads to wash on the countertops would be the same yuck.

So, much may be cultural.

When I had cats (boxes in a separate part of the house, but it was a big house), just cleaned the counters prior to cooking.

[mpjmph]

My washer and dryer are in the kitchen (fortunately arranged in a way that allows for a curtain to hide them). I have never dumped clothes on the counters, clean or not. I no more want food on clean clothes than I want dirty clothes on the counter. Clothes go from the laundry basket to the washer, directly into the dryer, then back to the basket. I fold in the bedroom.x.

[pine time]

When I typed my post, the keyboard kept freezing, so I was a little more cryptic than I meant: understand about w & d placements, now, but I had never heard/seen it before seeing homes in other countries. I do appreciate your system, and would do the same if my w&d had to be in the kitchen.

The point I, perhaps badly, tried to say is that it's partly what we're accustomed to, and how the individual handles the complexities of, say w & d in the kitchen, or no where else than kitchen for litter box, but everything kept ultra-clean or disinfected. Make more sense?

[Bite Me]

Smartie - what did you end up doing??!!

[Firegoat]

It is simply a question of what your personal comfort level is. No reason to feel good or bad about it. If you won't be comfortable in that situation, politely decline. The situation as described wouldn't bother me. However, dining at a friend's house with two kids under the age of 2 would. Not saying that's good or bad, just how I feel about it. If it is beyond your comfort level, you're just going to make everyone else miserable too.

[Scrapironchef]

Smartie - what sort of sanitation check do you apply to your non pet owning friends?

[melly]

We have cats. Their litter box is clean and in the laundry room. When we have guests, our cats are kept in a seperate room. I clean our counter tops very well before, during, and after cooking....I wash my hands often. If this isn't good enough...then don't eat at my house. :)

[Al_Pal]

I would never eat there. My boyfriend and I have a cat, and he thinks I'm crazy for freaking out when it jumps up on the kitchen counter. But all I can picture are its feet in the litter box and then on my counter, where I prepare my food. I wouldn't want ANY feet, regardless of who or what they belong to, on the same surface as my food.

[alanbarnes]

What's wrong with feet? Stock made with chicken feet is delicious. Pig's feet add a great unctuousness to pozole. Okay, so goose webs are getting a little exotic, but you get the picture.

Is it just the fact that the cat stands in the litterbox? Seriously, if the potential for exposure to fecal matter is what's worrying you you need to check out the statistics for presence of fecal coliform in ground beef. Or even fresh vegetables.

There's nothing wrong with having an irrational "ick" reaction, but if you think about it, a cat's feet are pretty clean. And if you want to keep kitty off the counters, just put out a few mousetraps or strips of doublestick tape. They learn quick.

[queencru]

Just out of curiosity, I asked some other people I know about the litterbox in the kitchen and the answer was a unanimous "Gross!" because they do not want fecal matter in the kitchen. Even if a person is clean, they can't be in the house every second of the day to make sure stuff isn't tracked about or onto the kitchen counter after the cat uses the litter box.

[alkapal]

my niece also thought it yukky --- and made a good point: in "pot luck" settings, you have little idea what the prep conditions were like. in the case here, it would be "POTTY luck."
[-)

[Scargod]

I asked my circle of friends and they all said "cool!". My circle of friends like throwing cow patties...

[Veggo]

Which travel only half the distance of sail rabbits...

[Scargod]

There are jack rabbits, and then there are "flat rabbits".

[Veggo]

A sail rabbit is a flattened road-kill jackrabbit almost as thin as sheet metal and desicated more than jerky, with aerodynamic balance and lift that make tournament 175 gram Frisbees seem like whiffle balls. Once while hitchhiking in the early 70's in Webb County,TX, I launched a sail rabbit well over 100 meters.

[Sam Fujisaka]

Roadkill from a semi is better. The parallel front and back feet, curved spine, and with ears for stabilization give you a perfect boomerang.

[Scargod]

Mighty tall tale for a non-Texan! Not really that much of an accomplishment, anyway.... I can spit a watermellon seed that far, and knock those sail rabbits out of the air.
Did you know that a jack rabbit will stop and listen if you whistle real loud?

[alanbarnes]

Son, you'd be well advised not to use the word "meters" in Webb County, TX.

[Firegoat]

We can those "skitter kitties" over here in Oklahoma ... which applies to rabbits, possums, raccoons etc..... everything pretty much except for armadillos (speed bumps)

[lagatta]

Yes, we usually use our hands and TP to attend to our ... er ... business. And hopefully wash them thoroughly afterwards. All cats lick their paws and the rest of themselves, spending a large percentage of their waking time on cleanliness. If only all human beings were so scrupulous about personal hygiene.

[JamieK]

So just to clarify, you prep food directly on your counter?

[Scrapironchef]

OK, you probably won't want to eat at this resto either then --

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/7654...

[Bite Me]

You know for a fact that the cats are on the counters and the litter box is in the kitchen, and you know that you are disgusted before even getting there. So, if I were you, I would decline or, if you go, stay briefly and don't eat. I love my cat, and my other cat who died two years ago, but i undertand that my DH is disgusted by them. My husband calls my cat "poopy paws" and that is because, no matter how fastidious you try to be with cleaning the box, busy working people can never quite keep up with it. Multiple cats should have one box per cat, too, because they otherwise get very dirty very quickly. Our kitties were trained to not go on the kitchen counters, but they do go on the dining room table and chairs. I never prepare anything directly on a counter or table top. I use chopping blocks, plates, etc. I clean the table off before company, but not before my DH and I sit down to eat. The litter box is in a bathroom no one uses, but in the early days, in another place, it was in a pantry off the kitchen. Not the best idea, but I felt limited in my choices. I am the first to confess that technically I have an "F" kitchen. My DH will not use our master bathroom which has two sinks because my cat likes to play in my sink. She walks accross the counter, past his sink, to mine, and then climbs in and waits for the water to be turned on. My DH uses the sink in a guest bathroom. I don't blame him. He doesn't want miss poopy paws walking where he puts his toothbrush, dental floss, etc., even though those items are not laying on the counter. I totoally undertand what he says, but I don't mind if she does it on my sink, so separate bathrooms is fine with me! Kitties in the house = F, iMHO, but I love the little goofball. She's 14.5 years old and I miss her brother daily. Wouldn't change it for the world, but I can appreciate how you feel completely. Let us know what you decide.

[alkapal]

it is not only what is IN the trays (and there is always some residual you-know-what somewhere in the tray, stuck to the plastic bottom or sides), BUT there is also the dust and possible pathogens stirred up into the environment by virtue of the digging/burying kitty-cat, AND litter tracking. these are problems even with covered trays.

oh, and it *just* struck me (DU-UH!) that there is MORE THAN ONE tray!!! double- or triple- gaaaaaaccccccckkkkkk!!

[danhole]

Smartie,

I have been thinking about this and have a follow up question. You say that the cats have "litter trays" in the kitchen, so does that mean that they are open trays, or are they contained boxes? In the case of a very small place where there is no room for the cat box to go, if you had one of those boxes that had the swinging door, and the carbon filter on the top, keeping it diligently clean and in a discreet place it might not be that bad. Now if it is a tray and you can actually see the contents, well . . . We used to live in a small apt. and our cat box went into the bathroom which, believe it or not, was larger than our kitchen! It was a tight fit, but the kitchen was so tiny you could stand in one spot and just swivel around and reach everything you needed. When I was PG I almost didn't fit into it!

[smartie]

they are icky open trays.

I have had cats of my own. I am not against cats or dogs or any other pets in a house. I just don't like the idea of cat paws around food. I know all sorts of stuff goes on in restaurant kitchens and people's kitchens. I just don't wanna see it and be made aware of it.

[mlgb]

Those cat's paws have pretty much been everywhere, haven't they? This sounds like a case of "Feh, feelty Ket" no matter how much your coworker cleans up and puts the box out of sight for the event. My bubby was the same way. Since you are so sensitive to the issue, why are you even going? After all, it's a coworker, not a good friend. Get sick ahead of time.

[lagatta]

An enclosed kitty loo would make a great gift! I wouldn't want to see little turds in any room in the house either (sure I have to see them when scooping them out, but that is part of the package, like changing a baby or cleaning up other messes that are part of life). Cats, who are fastidious and private creatures, prefer them anyway.

I presume cat people know the spray-bottle trick (the ones used to mist plants). Now I just have to point it as Monsieur le Chat and he "forgets" he was going to go after some fish on the counter or my table.

smartie, is there any other place you can go to break your Yom Kippur fast? Or are these people friends from your congregation? Because there is no point in going if you'll be uncomfortable, especially after many hours without drinking or eating.

[smartie]

I will go but I will nosh at home first then just have a cookie (that I am bringing). She is likely to use paper plates.

[danhole]

Oh no! That would be a real deal breaker for me, too, smartie, and I am an animal lover. You are very nice to still even go and have a cookie.

[meatn3]

"they are icky open trays."

That does change things a bit in my mind....Covered boxes cut back on many of the problems...

[BamiaWruz]

I'm a cat lover and I would not go, if that's the case with cats on the counter. It's one thing to have cats and it's another to let them roam and get on the counters and keep the place unclean.

Our cat hardly goes up on the counters, in fact I don't think any of them did. That sounds really terrible, and what an awkward situation.

[meatn3]

A litter box in the kitchen would be my last place of choice. I have noticed that litter boxes in close quarters tend to be well kept. If the box is in the garage or basement, well, out of sight- out of mind can easily happen. Now a box needing attention is not going to increase ones appetite by any means, if that is the case I can see where dining there might not be enjoyable. Same with other objectionable odors such as a dirty dog, gym shoes, etc. A good host will have dealt with these, and other housekeeping matters before guests arrive.

I would not view the box location as a summary of the persons kitchen hygiene. As others have said, there are many visual clues to gauge housekeeping skills. Hand washing, using clean implements, proper food storage techniques are more critical to my mind.

Hopefully the OP will be able to go and enjoy the friends hospitality. If things feel dicey once there, avoid the raw veggies and such...enjoy a drink and the cooked or items prepared off site or perhaps say you break your fast gradually...

[steve h.]

like cats. like dogs. i remember a jfood-like moment when my doberman decided a steak resting on the counter would make a tasty morsel. i was young, low single digits, and did a tug of war with my dog. i thought it was fun, my folks, when they found out, were amazed i wasn't part of the menu.

a long short: i never feed our dogs or cats "people" food. hanging out in the dining room is verboten to the four-legged guys.

i'm pretty soft-spoken. haven't had too many transgressions. pets seem to have a pretty large vocabulary.

[Veggo]

I wear a cheshire cat grin as I observe that kitty people have moved the needle to their side in the 2nd half of this thread.
Those who would turn down a dinner invite on account of a cat in the house, to me, suffer all the anxieties of a blind man in a dark room searching for a black cat that isn't there.

[mlgb]

You're invited there to break the fast and you won't eat there? That's going to be seen as rude. I think you need an excuse not to go, since you're so worked up about it.

It wouldn't bother me any more than eating in a restaurant where you have no idea what's going on behind the scenes.

(It should be obvious from my icon that I'm on the cat's side).

[thew]

wouldnt bother me much

[NE_Elaine]

Unless you have a real reason to think that this person prepares food in an unsafe manner, I would go and enjoy the party. Any time you eat something that is prepared by somebody else you have to put a certain amount of trust in them. It doesn't really matter whether the cook has pets or children or a SO that might stick a finger in for a quick taste.

I have 2 Great Pyrenees, which are very large, long haired dogs. Whenever I cook, I am always very careful to wipe tables and countertops.

[alkapal]

cat litter box in the kitchen? say it ain't so! i love cats, but not on counters/tables -- and definitely not with a stinkin, dusty, cat-#! and #2 in the kitchen. <gaaaacccckkkkk!>

this says a lot about the person's judgment about cleanliness. i would NOT go.

[lagatta]

Where on earth would you put it? Imagine you live in a city apartment with a tiny bath, a bedroom, a living room used as home office, and a large kitchen/dining room (the latter is typical of Montréal for cultural reasons). Fortunately I don't have to as I have a laundry nook that is also a litterbox nook (the litterbox is the covered type), but if not, the kitchen - well away from food prep and dining table areas - is the only logical place the box could be kept.

I'm thinking of a friend - very clean housekeeper, and no, her fat old cat doesn't jump up onto the counters - and the catbox is indeed in the kitchen, but in the same corner as the rubbish and recycling bins, well away from food prep areas.

Taking cooking classes, proper prep started with making sure all food prep areas were clean - freshly washed before preparing food, even if they had been cleaned after the previous meal or food-prep session. Whether or not there are pets, a smoker or any other source of household contamination.

[Lizard]

The place you described is palatial compared to what I had back in NYC. I lived in a studio and there was no room in the bathroom for a catbox. The kitchen was the only logical place and, sorry, Alkapal, I am an obsessive housekeeper with a pretty solid judgement about hygiene. Everything was wiped down regularly. My guess is that those of us aware of certain issues in the kitchen become hyper-vigilant.

The choice says more about privilege of space than about a person's sense of kitchen hygiene. Please, there are enough people out there who forget to wash their hands before even starting to handle food. Or those who go from raw chicken to vegetables.

[queencru]

For some it is about kitchen hygiene. I've lived in plenty of tiny spaces before and would probably choose not to have a cat before putting a litter box in the kitchen. That's just my personal preference based on how I feel about having cats do their thing in the kitchen.

[rockandroller1]

some of us have unfortunately been forced to downsize our living spaces. I already had the cat when I moved to a smaller space where there is literally no other place to put it. My personal preference would not be to take my cat to a shelter just because some people find it distasteful for me to have her catbox in the kitchen. It's not like it's right next to the food, jeez.

And my cat has never gotten on the counters or tables. Now that she is 15, there's certainly no danger of that.

I think people should get over themselves. If the owner is a clean housekeeper, which you can tell by looking at other things, it shouldn't be a concern. But it's true, some people just have weird phobias and hangups. I probably wouldn't be inviting those people over anyway.

[Scargod]

I agree. A person who can't deal with the potential sight of animals urinating and defecating, may not be happy regardless of how sanitary things are.

The box for doing "things" may be relocated for the party anyway. I would find it objectionable if the litter or contents smell was in the room

[lagatta]

My apartment is a perfectly decent size for one person; there is plenty of room for at least 8 bookcases, two work tables in the home office etc. It isn't cramped (yes, I've lived in far, far smaller in Paris and it would be the same in NYC because of crowding and high rents in those huge cities) but doesn't really have closing doors (except the loo, of course) since the building was renovated.

I'd never get rid of my cat under any circumstances. I was living in a much bigger place when he adopted us, but life changes, eh?

I have a covered litterbox with a carbon filter. It doesn't smell. Of course it would if it didn't change it, but a human bathroom can get stinky too if you don't keep it clean.

I have friends who have worked in restaurants who could tell the O.P. REAL horror stories about hygiene!

[Catskillgirl]

"I'd never get rid of my cat under any circumstances"
Thank goodness - someone I can respect in this thread! I have multiple cats, and yes, there's a litter box in the kitchen. It's kept clean as is the rest of my house.

If somebody is so cat-phobic that they can't bear the thought of eating at a house where cats dwell, then I would never invite them to my home. Period. I just don't care to know people like that.

[lagatta]

Nor the poster's mum who is a francophobe. Elle n'est PAS la bienvenue chez moi!

I have five housekeys, to catperson friends' houses. We sit each other's cats when one of us is travelling. (These people are all rather foodie, by the way. And none of them has a filthy kitchen).

[Catskillgirl]

Now that I think about it, ALL of my friends have cats &and/or dogs. Which is probably why I like them in the first place! I find people with pets are much more relaxed and not as concerned with appearances. Which does not make us pigs in the kitchen...

[greedygirl]

What a shame for her that she got a daughter who studied French, eh? I don't understand her attitude either, as we know a lot of very kind French people. It's got something to do with French farmers, blockades and apples. I've given up arguing!

In mitigation, she is a cat lover. When we had cats when I was a kid they used to go on the kitchen counters and were fed there (because we also had dogs). My mother is the cleanest person I know and you could eat off the floor in her house, seriously.

[alkapal]

i do not care where you put it , but do NOT put it ii the kitchen! cat box in a kitchen... no excuse. as i said, i love cats, dearly, but cat box in the kitchen is WAY beyond the pale.

[swsidejim]

I agree with you,

I lived in a small(under 700 sq foot) 1 room studio, with my wife and 2 cats back in the day. We found room in the bathroom for the one litter box.

Now we put the 2 boxes in the laudry/utility room, and everyone is happy.

[ElsieDee]

To answer in short: if you don't think that the cat's owner would thoroughly clean-off all cooking / prep areas before cooking, then I'd understand your qualms and likely wouldn't want to eat there either. But not just because of the cats' walking on the counter - any decent cook is going to clean before prepping food, regardless of whether or not there are cats around - and they will, hopefully, ensure that the animals are kept away from the food before and while it is being served.

I work in animal rescue / rehab, so there's always animals (domestic, exotic, wildlife) in our home - and sometimes in the kitchen. However, the animals are not allowed to roam around while I'm prepping / serving food, and while I like to think that the cats aren't going to get on the counter while I'm not around, I also know that they can reach the counter and likely get up there to explore. Regardless of whether I have animals in the kitchen or not, I scrub down all prep. areas before cooking - every single time.

[Sal Vanilla]

If you are going - consider eating things that you are fairly confident have not been prepared on the counter. Like eggs, meat, prepared sweets like from the bakery danish. Steer clear of anything that had to be chopped like fruit or anything with veggies in it. I have a friend who has 8, yes, eight, cats who have the RUN of her home and have the litterbox in the bath near the kitchen. AND she is not particularly clean (she's nice OK!). I sort of use those guidelines and I always bring a goody making sure her cats do not get their little grubby paws on it.

[Kate is always hungry]

Eat first. Giving your co-worker the benefit of the doubt, I would hope that the cats are not on the counter while she is prepping the food and she has wiped it down. What grossed me out at a party once where there was a cat and a small, very friendly dog, was guests petting them and then sticking their hands in the snack bowls.

I've had both cats and dogs and always made sure they were safely elsewhere when I was cooking.

[lagatta]

I don't have an "elsewhere". My flat is not tiny, but the renovation is open-plan. The only door I can shut other than hall and room cupboards is to the the toilet.

Fortunately Monsieur Chat is shy around visitors. But I don't think of him as a filthy thing I have to purify myself after touching, any more than my human friends or my houseplants. You'd hurt his feelings! And he is half-Siamese, and imperious.

I always wipe my counter when preparing food, even if I'm far away from Monsieur Chat.

[alanbarnes]

I assume you wouldn't freak out if you learned that your hosts had cut up a raw chicken on their kitchen counter. That presents a lot more health risks than a cat's feet. So long as the counters are cleaned up before food is prepared and/or served on them, it just isn't an issue.

On the other hand, if you don't trust your hosts to run a hygienic kitchen, the cats should be the least of your concerns. At least with cats you don't have to worry about whether mice were running across the baked goods or rats were sampling the schmears.

[BobB]

"I assume you wouldn't freak out if you learned that your hosts had cut up a raw chicken on their kitchen counter. That presents a lot more health risks than a cat's feet."

Finally a rational response! Thanks, Alan.

We have two cats who know that they are not allowed on the food prep counters - but of course, being cats, all that means is that they don't jump up on them while we're watching. So we always clean the counter before starting to cook. It is also true, as stated elsewhere, that food prep rarely takes place on the actual counter, but rather on cutting boards and such. In fact, the only time food directly touches the counter is when I'm kneading dough, and on those occasions I'm extra-careful to clean the counter thoroughly before starting.

I think the bigger issue is whether your friends use proper sanitary practices when cooking - if they don't, it makes no difference whether they have cats or not, and if they do, again, cats are not an issue.

[BeeZee]

Let's separate the two issues:
1) cat hater (or at least, not a cat liker)
2) cleanliness/hygene

I have 2 cats. One is not capable of jumping on a counter. The other has very rarely jumped up, only when she smelled something irresistable and I was stupid enough to leave it unattended. That being said...I understand that a lot of people are skeeved out by the thought that "maybe" the cat jumped on the counter. How many people actually do food prep DIRECTLY ON THE COUNTER? I have cutting boards, food always goes on a clean board. Someone can be suspect in the cleanliness dept without the presence of litter box in the food prep area, I know that as a cat lover I'd feel a bit woozy if I saw that.

[Glencora]

Come to think of it, you're right. Food goes onto cutting boards or into bowls, with the exception of unwashed produce.

On the other hand, one of my cats has a habit of sitting in the sink when I'm not around, so I always wipe the counter, just in case.

[greedygirl]

Snap!

And isn't our inability to control them one of the reasons that we love them? Mind you, I do wish Dylan would stop sleeping on the clean linen shelf. He has a perfectly good bed with built in heating, dammit (it hook over the radiator in our bedroom).

[mlgb]

Like this? (Not my cat, but I do take care of him on occasion). He was at the time living in a tiny Parisian apartment. AND he looks good in a hat (see Avatar).

[Catskillgirl]

PERFECT example. Would I eat at your house?

Absolutely!

Would I worry about how clean your kitchen was?

Absolutely Not!

[Glencora]

That's a small sink! Great picture, though. I'm glad I'm not the only one with a sink-sitting cat. She's water-obsessed and also sits in the bathtub.

[lagatta]

Of course I'm lagatta, but I also am the honoured friend of an actual fur-bearing cat, Renzo. I have never seen him go on the counter (he has been trained not to) but he is a cat, and cats are contrary, so I have no idea on earth what he does whe I'm not around. I always wipe off my countertops before preparing food.

Fortunately, there is a spot in my hallway for a washing machine and dryer, with room for Renzo's (covered) litterbox. However, when I was a girl, my very, very clean and tidy mum did put our cats' litterbox in the kitchen - once again, far away from food preparation and the kitchen table, near the rubbish container. Are people as upset by a trash bin, which no doubt contains putrefying food and simply dirty things you've had to discard?

If you put the catbox in your own toilet, that means you must keep the door open at all times, and a lot of people don't like to do that.

And why assume that people have a garage? I live in an upper flat, in a typical Montréal triplex (you know, the ones you've seen in pictures, with the outdoor staircases).

I also wash the kitchen table (I don't have a dining room - the kitchen table is a nice antique pine table) whenever I am eating or have guests over, even if there is a tablecloth on. Not just cat hair, but ordinary house dust and grime in a city.

Personally, I don't see why people would be upset about letting a cat lick their plates after them - I do hope you wash your dishes thoroughly before re-use! (I'm not talking about religious strictures here, just hygiene). Cats are probably cleaner animals than human beings are. No, I certainly would not do that if I have guests over (and don't do it anyway, out of concern for Renzo's own diet, not out of consideration for human feelings). But it is odd to be squeamish about animals as clean as cats are.

Cleanliness is important, but there is an odd squeamishness in North American culture that can be very counterproductive.

[greedygirl]

The amount of bacteria that lives in a cat's mouth is scary though. That's why cat bites get infected so often.

[Scrapironchef]

More bacteria lives in the human mouth.

[chowfamily]

I would hope that any cook would wipe down counters, clean or at least rinse food, utensils, cookware et. al. before proceeding.

I would either go and be polite about it, or politely decline.

[Veggo]

Another vote that declining a dinner invite, because host has cats, is a viable election?
I am numb with incredulity.

[Firegoat]

I think most pet owners that like to cook would by second nature wipe down counters before starting to cook, because even if the pets don't get on the counters, there is always those stray floating cat hairs (or dog hairs) that get wafted around.
I wouldn't be concerned about eating there. Odds are she's probably more diligent about cleaning counters and utensils for that reason.

[MMRuth]

Exactly. And I'm particularly careful (dog owner) when I have people over.

[lrbarbie]

well not everyone is so careful......one year at my ex's mom's house for xmas, i watched the dog lick the uncovered pies!!! yuck, i'm getting sick just thinking about it! and by the way i am a dog owner =)

[MMRuth]

I will confess to being less careful when it's just the two of us - and I can't promise anyone that they won't eat off a plate that the dog hasn't licked once upon a time, with then, of course, being run through the dishwasher. We do have close friends with cats who get up on the counters and, while I wouldn't want that myself, well, I just don't worry about it. I do think this is all a big issue for pregnant women, of course.

[greedygirl]

And of course I've never found one of my own hairs in my dinner.....

[Veggo]

Your friend has cats. Whoopie. How can you infer that your friend prepares food on unclean surfaces? A bit insulting and lacking in trust. We are a nation of spoiled antiseptic brats, and judging by the responses so far, this thread is a cat hater lovefest in sheeps' clothing.

[jfood]

Oh Veggo. Bet if you substituted dog in this thread you would get the same result. That's where jfood would come out. In fact he went to a dinner where the little dogs were very unruly and jumped on all the areas where the food was. The jfoods had some really good PB&J when they got home.

[Veggo]

Dogs don't do counters. They do lawns, persian rugs, and upholstered furniture.

[MMRuth]

Eh - big dogs can do counters.

[Veggo]

Interesting. They must do sort of an angled approach, like the Fosberry flop in the high jump, so they don't smash face first into the cabinets as they arrive on the countertop. If there are no treats there to be purloined, I would think they would stop.

[MMRuth]

"If there are no treats there to be purloined, I would think they would stop." Ah, but there is the rub. Imagine a chocolate lab ingesting a foil wrapped stick of butter left on the counter,near the back splash, to come to room temperature. Not mine, of course, mine is the model (ahem) of good behaviour and a great deal shorter. But if he could, he would.

[Veggo]

Foil-wrapped butter? Easier to imagine a sparkling termination to the dog walk the next morning...:)

[OCEllen]

Oh, and all that butter....imagine the 'results'!?!

[Ruth Lafler]

LOL. My precious Kelpie (see photo) is an unrepentant counter-surfer but the only thing that ever made her sick was butter. She stole a cube of butter I'd set out to come to room temperature and then threw it up on the kitchen floor in the middle of my dinner party.

I've never seen her jump on the kitchen counters, but I know she could, as one of my other dogs did it once -- he was excited and jumping around and boom, there he was on the counter. Fortunately, Kelpie hasn't realized she can do it, so things are still safe if I push them away from the edge far enough.

I have a pretty high tolerance for dog hair in my food, but I'm scrupulous when I'm cooking for other people. A litter box in the kitchen would not fly with me, and neither does the "house is too small" argument. If you don't want it in the bedroom, then why is it better to have it in the kitchen? And can't you at least move it to the bedroom when you have guests?

[baseballfan]

My huge Golden retriever can easily swipe stuff off of the counter...butter, foil or no foil, is one of his favorites. Nothing is safe including bread in the bread basket. He doesn't actually get up on the counter of course but uses his huge (apparently telescoping) paw to pull the items down onto the floor. Knowing this, counters are thoroughly wiped down prior to any food prep. Regarding litter boxes in the kitchen? NO NO NO.

[cassoulady]

My kitty assists my two labs in getting things from the counter, she scoots the out of reach items to the edge so they can grab it. In my opinion, If the kitty on the counter bothers you dont go. Personally, kitties on counters dont bother me, mine is often lurking by the stove on the counter seeing whats cooking, but I know this might gross people out. But hey, at least you know there wont be mice droppings in your food, and that I think is far more gross than a counter-kitty. ha

[jfood]

OK Here's how it's done.

Enter the kitchen. First youlook left, then you look right. If the people are not around you quietly sneak up to the counter with your nose slightly raised so you know exactly where the good stuff is awaiting. Lift both front paws onto the edge of the counter and take a peak on top. Then you swivel your upper body to the right so your front shoulder is against the edge of the counter. Now you slowly open your mouth and start leaning your head over the edge of the counter and adjust your angle so the mouth surrounds the food like a vice clamp. Slowly lift your head away from the counter and start leaning to the left. Bring the front paws down to the floor. Now here's the important part. Leave the scene of the crime. Find a quiet space and start eating. If you hear a scream from the kitchen you have 2 choices. 1 - eat very quickly, feels better in the short term, but an hour later you may regret it. 2 - run like hell away from the food. Chances are you'll get blamed and yelled at anyways but it's really fun watching the people grab a half eaten roast beef and run around and show every body yelling "look what the stupid dog did." Hey even a pooch needs some entertainment.

[Dee S]

jfood, that's *exactly* what my dog did to get on the counters. Were you watching? Those darned pooches will eat ANYTHING!

I don't care what animal you own; if it's allowed to roam free, it will go where it pleases. I have had many animals over the years and clean the kitchen from top to bottom before cooking. Yes, I even sweep and mop before I cook. I don't want to find any dust, feathers, animal or human hairs in my food. That's just the way it is at my house. I don't let the animals beg and make them leave the room while we eat.

If you're grossed out by the normal functions of an animal, then don't go. Be polite as jfood mentioned earlier but don't eat.

[cookie monster]

That's exactly how it works at my house. And I'm still amazed at how quickly my dog, now 14 years old and not as spry as he used to be, can execute that manuveur. In recent weeks, when I was out of the kitchen for a minute max, he managed to grab and consume an entire cinnamon bun (a huge one that I would have cut into quarters for sharing) and we also had a near-miss with a container of pulled pork - he succeeded in getting it out of the hot food bag and was working on the scotch tape on the lid when I caught him. Thank goodness Whole Foods packs things so well. We also had a butter set out to get to room temperature incident like MMRuth, but my guy decided he didn't want to eat the whole thing at once so he buried 3/4 of it under the couch cushions to save for later. very nice.

[Pampatz]

Our dogs are little 10-pounders, so the kitchen counters are out. But the big ottoman in the family room is another story. Frank left a turkey and havarti sandwich on the ottoman when we left to answer the door. He and a neighbor talked for a few minutes and returned to an empty plate and Betsy and Layla licking their lips. Very unhappy man.
As to the litter box in the kitchen, I wouldn't worry. Go, nibble if you must and leave after about 30 minutes to attend another function. Give your friend the benefit of the doubt that she cleaned her kitchen prior to preparing food.

[KaimukiMan]

jfood, neat trick if you are tall. my mom had a welsh corgi... very short legs. We never did figure out how he got that loaf of deli rye bread down off the counter (in the corner no less). there were no chairs or anything else to ladder up from. But there was the empty bread wrapper in the middle of the floor, with a VERY thirsty (and guilty looking) pooch just outside the kitchen.

[Ruth Lafler]

Yup -- that's how it's done. The refinement of the technique that Kelpie uses is that she doesn't always pull the whole object on the floor, making the operation more stealthy. The first time I observed this was when I came into the kitchen and saw that two-thirds of a six-pound Costco pack of country-style ribs was missing: while every other dog I'd had would have pulled the whole thing off the counter (making enough noise to alert me in the next room), she'd ripped the end nearest the counter edge open and quietly removed as many pieces as she could reach. Since that was more than she could eat at one sitting, she took the rest of it outside and buried it. Then later that night she hopped up on the bed and tossed this disgusting hunk of dirt-encrusted flesh at me. Joy!

Dogs are omnivorous scavengers. They will, indeed eat almost anything.

[Catskillgirl]

OT, but I had a cat who could steal the ham out of a sandwich. He'd leave the bread, lettuce, cheese, whatever neatly between the slices of bread, but somehow hook out the ham and just poof! disappear. He had me scratching my head many times - how he did it I still have no idea. But when he'd eat something he particularly enjoyed, he'd purr "ham, ham, ham" as he was eating. He was odd. LOL!

[greedygirl]

My parent's old dog was once caught with both feet on the kitchen counter, scoffing a strawberry gateau that my mother had bought for a dinner party! It was the first time he'd ever done such a thing, and my mother was convinced that it was to embarrass her in front of some French guests. He also chewed one of their slippers - again the only time he ever did that.

My mother is a francophobe - so perhaps the dog thought he was doing her a favour!

[alanbarnes]

Even little dogs can do counters. We have a beagle cross who was prone to counter-surfing. He can just barely get his nose above the cabinets, but his tongue develops a remarkable amount of extension if there's something really tasty near the edge.

Our Jack Russell Terrorist, on the other hand, has a 4'+ vertical leap. He once jumped onto the dining table and polished off an entire pork tenderloin - 10% of his body weight - in a matter of seconds.

We finally resorted to mousetraps. A few on the table and the counters with a leftover hamburger patty nearby as bait quickly convinced the pups that keeping all four paws on the floor was in their best interest.

[alkapal]

alan, i laughed to myself picturing your beagle with the extendo-tongue!

and mouse traps, ah, that is tough love, my friend. sure cured 'em fast, i'll bet. like water pistol (or the sight of my yardstick) for the cats here....

[Sam Fujisaka]

Or a slingshot with balls of vegetable gums!

[jfood]

Have you ever walked into a dining room where two small dogs were on the table eating directly from the serving pieces? Jfood has. Now jfood is about a big a dog lover as ever to have hit this earth, but there was no way jfood was doing seconds on the meal.

And to MM's point. One of jfood dogs (a dobby/pointer mix) in 1970 ate a three pound roast beef off the counter that was resting before slicing (jfood walked in as he was lickingthe juice off his paws) and one of mrs jfood's dogs (a golden) ate 3/4 of a cake off the counter one night and then showed up with icing on his lips in the family room.

[lrostron]

Or our one hundred pound yellow lab who helped himself to not one, but two tuna sandwiches left on the kitchen counter and then found me in the laundry room getting the tablecloth out of the dryer for the lunch table, lab was completely happy, fish breath and all.

[jfood]

Nah, labs are neat. He was just looking to use the tablecloth to wipe his lips.

[lrostron]

That's sound about right for our Jake, if there was no tablecloth, it was the couch cushion.

[greedygirl]

We once caught my parent's old cat dragging a bag of frozen mince out of the kitchen - presumably he was going to let it defrost before tucking in!

[jfood]

reading quickly jfood thought you wrote frozen "mice", not "mince". What a thoughtful owner.

[greedygirl]

LOL

On the subject of mice, I wonder how the OP stands on decomposing rodents in the dining room? We found one the other day that the cats had hidden behind their cat carrier. It was starting to smell a little.... In our defence, we had been on holiday for two weeks!

[capeanne]

Cast: one smart rescue Greyhound girl ( Molly...RIP) and DH
Location: Kitchen
Scene: Greyhound girl caught in the act of back legs on floor, front paws on counter and mouth wide open removing a loaf of french bread from kitchen counter
Finale: Greyhound girl realizes that she has been made and gently pushes said loaf back onto counter with her nose....and not a word was spoken

[Scargod]

I am in utter agreement with Veggomatic man. What do y'all have against cats? I suppose nobody's ever had mice or rats running around the kitchen? I mean do you hose down the countertops every time a mouse is spotted? What about insects landing on the counter? Let's hear a collective "ewwwwwwwww"!
I lived with cats for years (beacuse GF raised and bred them at one point). There were always three or four loose in the house. Occasionally the young male would walk the countertops. They are not hard to control. We had dinner parties frequently and to my knowledge nobody complained or stayed away. Cats are generally very clean. What harm are they doing? It's not like you are letting them assemble hors d'œuvres. Don't most people use cutting boards?
I have a dog and she is my scraps handler while I am cooking. MY SO knows that I don't touch food with the right hand fingers that might touch the dog (though she usually catches everything in mid-air). I wash my hands frequently. So I have my dog in the kitchen while I cook, and while we eat she is laying at my side; and she sheds. Sue me!
PS: most people I know move litter boxes to a far away place during a party. That would be thoughtful for the ewers.

[Firegoat]

I did have a cat on the counter right at the start of winter last year. Couldn't figure it out. That cat NEVER got on the counter... but there he sat.... staring at a cupboard.
I shooed him off.
Bad kitty!
Later that night same cat on same counter... now trying to open cupboard.
Shoo!
Bad kitty!
Yeah..... that cupboard had a lot of dry goods in it.... a look inside found a mouse had come in from the cold through the attic, and decided to start eating on some rice and a granola bar......
When I opened that cupboard door that cat was in like a flash and on it.
Good kitty!
But seriously.... if pets skeeve you out, skip it, because your uncomfortableness will make them uncomfortable.
I couldn't imagine living without them, but if It makes you uncomfortable, I'm not in any position to complain.

[Scrapironchef]

My method to train cats off any surface was strips of masking tape sticky side up left laying around. My himalayan, while admittedly not the brightest cat I've ever owned, learned quickly and decisively not to get up on any surface I did this to a few times. A roomate I was having difficulties with because of her dog's behavioral problems used to pick up the kitty food bowl and leave it on the counter so her dog wouldn't eat it. I'd come home and find my cat sitting on the kitchen floor staring up at his bowl. Tey can be trained, it just takes persistence and consistency.

The roomies dog on the other hand was completely untrustable and climbed up on the tables and counter regularly to steal food.

As far as the OP goes, I've been skeeved out enough by the kitchens of people that don't even own pets. Cleanliness has nothing to do with whether you own a pet or not.

[The Ranger]

> I've been skeeved out enough by the kitchens of people
> that don't even own pets. Cleanliness has nothing to
> do with whether you own a pet or not.

Bingo!

[Catskillgirl]

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

[im_nomad]

for what it's worth, i'd rather eat straight from a cat's dish than be called a spoiled antiseptic brat thx

[Veggo]

good kitty purrs.....

[smartie]

been round to her house, yes the cats sit on her kitchen table and counters. When there is food out too.

[swsidejim]

litter boxes in the kitchen? that is disgusting by itself.

I am a proud cat owner with 2 cats, and there is little anyone can do to keep them from going on the counter, or tables when the owners are not around. We just make sure to clean counter tops, and tables before using them, knowing they have probably been on them while we have been at work. I would hope other owners would do the same.

I would eat before going, or after I left.

[danhole]

I have 3 cats. Their litter box is in the garage. They are not allowed on the counters, but will sneak up there, from time to time, if I am out of the kitchen, but as soon as I walk in they scatter. Therefore, I scrub down the counter with antibacterial soap before ever cooking, or preparing anything. I had a friend who actually fed her cat on her kitchen counter and I did not eat anything at her house, unless it came out of the fridge, and was cold! YUCK! Litter box in kitchen, and feeding cat on counter - NO!

[beachmouse]

Same here with my cats- they know they're not supposed to be on top of the counters, save for the one between fridge and stove that's the path to the sleeping spots on top of the kitchen cabinets. But every once in a while, they do anyways, and I've had to be vigilant where they are when I'm cooling baked goods ever since the I busted the blue beast licking the tops of the corn muffins.

Chlorox wipes are my friends right before I start food prep on the counters.

[im_nomad]

well they are, after all, animals...it's not like you can sit them down for a meaningful talk and not have them try a stunt like that when you're not looking. :D I don't let my dog on the furniture either, but that doesn't stop her when i'm not home to look or when she attempts those stunts with "new people" around.

It's the people who actually openly allow their animals to eat, drink and be merry off their own plates and on their countertops that irk me.

Clorox wipes rule !

[queencru]

Count me in as someone who is more concerned about the litter box location than the fact that the cats can go on the counters. Assuming someone wipes down the countertops and keeps the cats away during meal prep, it's not going to be a problem. However, I'd be concerned if I knew a cat could leap onto the counter within seconds of doing his business. Litter boxes belong away from the food, period.

[rockandroller1]

I certainly don't let my cat on any counters or tables, never have. But some of us don't have a palatial palace in which we can choose "somewhere else" to have the kitty box. I am certainly not going to put it in the middle of the living room, I think having my guests watch the cat pee and poop is not very nice. I don't want it in my bedroom and my bathroom is not big enough, it's hardly big enough for me to get in, let alone a cat box. The only remaining room is the kitchen. Why is that so awful?

[Glencora]

Good point. Thank goodness my cats are old enough to go outside now, but when they were kittens I had to have the litter box in the kitchen, by the back door. It was as far away from the food prep as possible, right next to my desk. Ick. But we had no choice. I think I remember moving it and the kittens into the bedroom when we had guests. And then having to vacuum stray litter off the rug afterward. But you're right, we don't all have huge houses.

[manraysky]

Same here. The litter box isn't going to go in one of the carpeted rooms. And it won't fit in the bathroom. That leaves the kitchen.

[PurpleTeeth]

Litter Box is in the Pantry under a desk and kept clean and neat. Best place for it. And my Cat never gets on the counter's, we trained her out of that long ago.

[Kajikit]

I think litterbox in the kitchen is kind of gross... I understand the lack of room though - we keep the litterbox in the half-bathroom that almost never gets used - that way there's an exhaust fan to help deal with odour issues and handy water for cleaning up.
I try to keep the cats OUT of the kitchen for safety reasons - it's too small for me and them as well! Of course they ignore the rules at will, but they generally obey when I'm in there, so at least I know I'm not going to trip over them when I'm taking a dish out of the oven. As for hygiene, that's why they invented dish cloths and germ-killing kitchen sprays. Unless there's some reason to assume that your host is unacquainted with hygiene, there isn't any real reason to avoid eating there just because they have animals in the kitchen.

[greedygirl]

I'm impressed that you managed to train your cat, tbh! Mine don't go on the counters, but they do sit on the kitchen sink and look out of the window. They know they're not supposed to, because when I go into the room they jump down! I have also been unable to prevent them from sitting on the coffee table, which is annoying as it is made of glass/mirror and I am continually cleaning off the muddy paw prints. Grrr.

Noone has ever refused an invitation to my house because I have cats, btw.

[cayjohan]

gg, a great way to train cats from going somewhere you don't want them to is to construct a barier of empty aluminum beverage cans. Line the edge of your countertop with them (set back just a wee bit), say, or fill your sink with them, loosely enough so they can rattle around a lot. Persistent kitty takes a leap for the forbidden area and a helluva racket results. It takes some diligence on the part of the owner during the training period, but it really works. My cats won't go near the countertops or tabletops...and disappear even when we sort recycling! Of course, you may have to live with a wigged-out nervous wreck of a puddy tat for a couple of weeks, but the results are worth it. Cat-owners, please don't think I'm cruel - the cats have an aversion to the noise, and I have an aversion to paws on the countertop and tongue-tracks in the butter, so this method has allowed us an understanding.

Cay

[alkapal]

yeah, paw prints on the coffee table is one thing, but litter box in the kitchen is entirely a different matter.

[greedygirl]

We don't have a litter box any more, but I wouldn't put it in the kitchen either. Mind you, the cats much preferred it when they had an indoor toilet, and I'm getting some dirty looks from them at the moment now the weather's not so good!

[Catskillgirl]

And I'm sure your neighbors enjoy your cats using their gardens as a giant litter box as well.

[greedygirl]

They don't roam so it's my garden they use.

[queencru]

You're free to put the litterbox wherever you'd like, but it's important to understand that some people might not feel comfortable eating in a home where the litter box is in the kitchen. I just don't like the idea of cats peeing and pooping right near the food prep area.

[jfood]

Bagel, shmear, novey in the glove box. Leave Temple, open glove box, eat.

Now show up at the co-workers, and do not eat the food if that is an issue. Stay around 30 minutes, shmooze and thank them for the hospitality. Go home open freezer and pullout the cheese blintzes you made. fry them up, a little sour cream, shoes off, feet up, bite and smile.

Jfood has a very hard time with people who allow their pets to touch their own food and would be appalled if the little varmits crawled all over the counters. Blech.

[kbjesq]

This is the best reply, IMHO. OP obviously looking for an answer that will allow her to be polite in response to a gracious invitation but not have to eat host's food because of OP's aversion to the cat situation. Whether you agree or disagree with OP's aversion to the cat situation is irrelevant. Jfood solved the problem effectively. OP can socialize, but need not eat host's food.

[im_nomad]

I agree with viperlush.....not all pet owners are unclean that way, and you don't know if they clean the counters and what not. I love animals but i'm not a cat lover (allergies) and I have never been a fan of people who allow their animals all over the food or *shudder* give them a lick off something they're eating. I've never understood why cat owners allow them to roam about the countertops either, but it seems they'd be hard to control that way, if they can get up there.

I have a dog, and even though she's little (thankfully can't reach counters) and not really a bad shedder, her hair does get round the place. I scour my counters before cooking anything for company.

I'd be more icked out by the litter trays in the kitchen

[jacquelyncoffey]

Litter box in the kitchen is nasty, would you eat/cook in your bathroom? That being said, that's why I wouldn't go. Anyone who doesn't realize that it's just plain gross might not be too meticulous with cleaning. Cats having been on a counter doesn't bother me, you just have to clean them religiously, especially before preparing food. The germs a cat might bring up there are probably no worse than what's living on our hands, sponges, dish towels etc. As long as they haven't stepped in the food, it's fine with me.

[chowfamily]

I do not believe the subject of litter boxes was raised by the OP.

[lgphil]

"I know the cats have litter trays in the kitchen and do not go outside."

Next to last line of OP.

[chowfamily]

You are correct, and I apologize.

I'm guessing that this is necessary for some reason, but it would not necessarily impact the quality of the food.

The OP should decline the invitation for the sake of all concerned.

[beevod]

Sounds disgusting. I wouldn't go.

[viperlush]

Do you know for a fact that she doesn't clean her kitchen counters and allows the cats on the counter while she prepares the food or are you just assuming?

[nofunlatte]

Since you know the cats are on the counter for sure, I think you should just decline the invitiation. If you go, it'll be uncomfortable for you AND it will be uncomfortable for the host/ess and any other invited guests. I'm assuming that this is a work acquaintance and not a good friend (in which case you can tell your friend the truth).

FWIW, I have an indoor cat and she doesn't get on the counters (or coffee table or some such). The indoor/outdoor thing is not the issue.